Legislature(2015 - 2016)BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
03/02/2016 01:30 PM Senate JUDICIARY
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB174 | |
| SB180 | |
| SB174 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 112 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | SB 174 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 180 | TELECONFERENCED | |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE
March 2, 2016
1:34 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator John Coghill, Vice Chair
Senator Mia Costello
Senator Peter Micciche
Senator Bill Wielechowski
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Lesil McGuire, Chair
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 174
"An Act relating to the regulation of firearms and knives by the
University of Alaska."
- HEARD & HELD
SENATE BILL NO. 180
"An Act relating to the temporary delegation by a parent or
guardian of powers related to a child; relating to adoption; and
relating to the distribution to a parent or guardian in a child
protection situation of information on family support services."
- MOVED CSSB 180(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE BILL NO. 112
"An Act establishing procedures related to a petition for
adoption of a child in state custody; adding a definition of
'proxy for a formal petition'; amending Rule 6(a), Alaska
Adoption Rules; and providing for an effective date."
- SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 174
SHORT TITLE: REG. OF FIREARMS/KNIVES BY UNIV. OF AK
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) KELLY
02/08/16 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/08/16 (S) EDC, JUD
02/16/16 (S) EDC AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/16/16 (S) Heard & Held
02/16/16 (S) MINUTE (EDC)
02/17/16 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
02/17/16 (S) Scheduled but Not Heard
02/18/16 (S) EDC AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/18/16 (S) Heard & Held
02/18/16 (S) MINUTE (EDC)
02/23/16 (S) EDC AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/23/16 (S) Moved CSSB 174(EDC) Out of Committee
02/23/16 (S) MINUTE (EDC)
02/26/16 (S) EDC RPT CS 2DP 1DNP 1NR SAME TITLE
02/26/16 (S) DP: DUNLEAVY, HUGGINS
02/26/16 (S) DNP: GARDNER
02/26/16 (S) NR: GIESSEL
02/26/16 (S) FIN REFERRAL ADDED AFTER JUD
02/29/16 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
02/29/16 (S) Heard & Held
02/29/16 (S) MINUTE (JUD)
03/02/16 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
BILL: SB 180
SHORT TITLE: PARENT-GUARDIAN/CHILD: TEMP. POWER OF ATTY
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) GIESSEL
02/12/16 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/12/16 (S) JUD
02/24/16 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
02/24/16 (S) Heard & Held
02/24/16 (S) MINUTE (JUD)
03/02/16 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
WITNESS REGISTER
GREG STODDARD, representing himself
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 174.
ROB CLIFT, Chair
Libertarian Party
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 174.
LILY COHEN, representing herself
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 174.
BRIAN JUDY, Alaska Liaison
National Rifle Association
Sacramento, California
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 174.
MIKE COONS, representing himself
Palmer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 174.
SETH WEAVER, representing himself
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 174.
BRIAN SIMPSON, representing himself
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of SB 174.
MICHAEL HOSTIN, General Counsel
University of Alaska
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions related to SB 174.
MATT COOPER, General Counsel
University of Alaska
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions related to SB 174.
SENATOR CATHY GIESSEL
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SB 180.
KARI NORE, Staff
Senator Cathy Giessel
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information related to SB 180.
CHARITY CARMODY, President
Beacon Hill
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions related to SB 180.
CARL KANCIR, representing himself
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 174.
ACTION NARRATIVE
1:34:00 PM
VICE CHAIR COGHILL called the Senate Judiciary Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:34 p.m. Present at the call to
order were Senators Micciche, Wielechowski, Costello, and Vice
Chair Coghill.
SB 174-REG. OF FIREARMS/KNIVES BY UNIV. OF AK
1:35:53 PM
VICE CHAIR COGHILL announced the consideration of SB 174. He
listed those who were available for questions and opened public
testimony.
1:36:48 PM
GREG STODDARD, representing himself, testified in support of SB
174. He noted he works for the university, but is speaking for
himself. He opined that the university's current firearms policy
is more of an invitation to a perpetrator, than a deterrent. He
said statistics show gun-free zones are where violence occurs.
He said the bill requires the university to follow existing law.
Americans have the constitutional right to defend themselves. He
did not think there was anything to fear from a polite society
that arms itself.
1:39:29 PM
ROB CLIFT, Chair, Libertarian Party, testified in support of SB
174. He said the Libertarian Party supports the right to carry
"concealed" on campus and is cognizant that people already are
carrying "concealed" on campus. He said he understands that the
university is used by many people and belongs to all people of
Alaska, not to the Board of Regents. He concluded that passage
of the bill aligns the university with state law.
1:42:23 PM
LILY COHEN, representing herself, testified in opposition to SB
174. She said even though she works on campus, she is speaking
for herself. She said she carries a gun in situations where she
want to feel safe, such as out in the field, but not on campus.
She stated that she does not support guns on campus and feels
that they will not make the campus safer. She did not think that
the committee received letters opposing the bill. She read from
an article in the Onion about mass shootings around the U.S.
VICE CHAIR COGHILL noted the committee has received an equal
number of letters against the bill.
1:44:58 PM
BRIAN JUDY, Alaska Liaison, National Rifle Association,
testified in support of SB 174. He questioned whether a person
should have less freedom or safety on a college campus and why a
person who can be armed off campus, can't be armed on campus. He
stated that self-defense is a fundamental right. The bill is
about providing protection for law-abiding citizens both on and
off campus. He maintained that law enforcement cannot not
respond to shootings quick enough. He said gun-free school zones
have been a disaster with every mass killing recently having
been in such zones. He said there are currently 9 states that
allow concealed carry on campus without any problems. He shared
the history of concealed carry law. He did not believe the bill
would cause fiscal problems for the university.
1:49:21 PM
MIKE COONS, representing himself, testified in support of SB
174. He cited times when there was a deadly threat and he
produced a weapon to stop it. He debated the university
counsel's opinion that it is not a state entity. He suggested
cutting funds to the university. He said an adult in Alaska does
not need a concealed carry permit and he maintained that
training does not make a person safer. He concluded that
children are safe around concealed carry on campus.
1:53:38 PM
SETH WEAVER, representing himself, testified in opposition to SB
174. He voiced concern about the underlying aura of fear that
would infringe on one's ability to express free speech in the
classroom. He spoke as a student of the university system who
would be affected by this bill and the general reluctance for
students to speak on a hot topic when students in their classes
have guns. He referred to the Sumter Incidence where a person
was caned to death for speaking up. He suggested adding an
amendment to also allow concealed carry inside the state
capitol.
1:57:39 PM
BRIAN SIMPSON, representing himself, testified in favor of SB
174. He said it is a constitutional right to carry concealed. He
said safe zones are not safe. He concluded that those who would
carry concealed are law abiding citizens.
VICE CHAIR COGHILL noted the university is preparing additional
statements regarding K-12 students on campus.
2:01:20 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE asked about the UA fiscal note for $1.3 million
for FY2017 and $800,000, per year, for FY2018 through FY2020,
regarding K-12 programs. He asked if the university plans to
issue another fiscal note after the acceptance of version N,
which allows restricted areas.
2:03:37 PM
MICHAEL HOSTIN, General Counsel, University of Alaska System,
answered questions related to SB 174. He explained that the K-12
programs are mixed in with other programs on campus that would
not be subject to concerns that would normally be associated
with K-12 buildings where firearms are not permitted. The
university believes that there would have to be secure points,
as allowed in the bill, during K-12 events.
MATT COOPER, General Counsel, answered questions related to SB
174. He said that in addition to K-12, the fiscal note
represents funding to evaluate existing secure areas to see if
they qualify as secure access points and possibly having to make
them more secure. He gave as examples the super computer and
sensitive labs at UAF. He noted they are still working on
refining the fiscal note. The fiscal note accompanying version N
is a substantial reduction from the previous fiscal note, which
included lock boxes for secure storage.
VICE CHAIR COGHILL set SB 174 aside, awaiting further public
testimony.
2:06:48 PM
At ease
SB 180-PARENT-GUARDIAN/CHILD: TEMP. POWER OF ATTY
2:07:47 PM
VICE CHAIR COGHILL announced the consideration of SB 180.
SENATOR CATHY GIESSEL, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor of SB
180, noted this was the second hearing and there was a new CS,
version H.
2:08:53 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE moved to adopt the CS for SB 180, labeled 29-
LS1431\H, as the working document.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI objected for discussion.
2:09:23 PM
KARI NORE, Staff, Senator Cathy Giessel, Alaska State
Legislature, explained changes in the new CS for SB 180, version
H. The first change occurs on page 5 of the original bill,
version W; subsection (j), beginning on line 14 on page 5, was
removed due to concerns by the Office of Children's Services
(OCS). She noted OCS was afraid (j) would allow individuals to
circumvent OCS by diverting to the power of attorney (POA)
process. OCS suggested the sponsor put forward a statutory
exemption under AS 47.32 for organizations similar to Beacon
Hill and Safe Families for Children.
She reported that the second change was on page 7 of version H,
where two additional sections were added. Section 5 references
the exemption and Section 6 is the actual exemption.
MS. NORE reviewed questions previously raised by committee
members and Legislative Legal Services' responses. In response
to Senator McGuire's concern, Legislative Legal attorneys
determined that the bill does not supersede judicial bypass.
Senator Costello had asked whether both parents must sign the
POA and the answer is that the delegation of powers is the first
step in a custody case. The goal of the bill is to make the
process quick and easy and to not involve an attorney, so it is
not necessary to have both parents sign. She stressed that a
delegation of powers over a minor does not affect the rights of
a non-signing parent and it can be revoked at any time.
2:12:29 PM
VICE CHAIR COGHILL offered his understanding that if there are
disagreements between parents, there are other legal avenues
available for appeal.
MS. NORE agreed. She explained that the delegation of powers is
designed to be an easy way to help families get back on their
feet without risk of losing custody of their children.
MS. NORE addressed the question raised by Senator Wielechowski
concerning PFD's and property belonging to a minor child. She
said the sponsor proposes a change to remove the words "of
property" on page 2, line 3, and on page 3, line 13, to prevent
the host family or attorney-in-fact from having purview over the
property of the minor child; it would remain with the biological
parent.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if the sponsor will propose that
change.
MS. NORE said yes. She said there was also a question raised
about the ability to recoup medical and dental costs, or costs
related to the care of a child. The sponsor decided not to
address this issue because when a family enters into an
agreement using the power of attorney, such as with Beacon Hill,
there is a built-in agreement that the family will not seek
recovery of medical costs. It is supposed to be minimal cost to
the host parent or attorney-in-fact.
2:14:41 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI summarized that the person with the POA
would not be responsible for expensive medical care, should the
child need it.
MS. NORE said, "Correct."
2:15:24 PM
MS. NORE addressed a question posed by Senator Wielechowski
regarding emancipation. She explained that the bill does not
address emancipated minors and it would be up to the
organizations to set standards related to placement based on
age.
SENATOR COSTELLO asked what happens if one parent disagrees with
the POA being provided to a third party.
MS. NORE said if one parent signs and one does not, the one who
does not sign does not lose any rights, and either parent can
revoke the POA at any time.
SENATOR COSTELLO said she was trying to think of a family
situation where one parent thinks the POA will result in harm to
the child.
2:17:24 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL suggested that the president of Beacon Hill
address the question. She maintained that families seeking
assistance voluntarily call Beacon Hill because they want to
retain custody of their children and they are working hard to
resolve their issues. She suggested that there is much more
cooperation between parents than Senator Costello envisions.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said he had the same question.
2:18:46 PM
CHARITY CARMODY, President, Beacon Hill, answered questions
related to SB 180. She provided an example similar to the
situation Senator Costello posed where the mother used a POA to
put the kids in Safe Families for Children and the dad appeared
after a month and agreed to sign the same POA, but if he
wouldn't have agreed, he could have revoked the POA.
SENATOR COSTELLO asked if the legislation were to pass and
Beacon Hill were not in place, what would happen when a POA is
signed without the other parent's knowledge.
MS. CARMODY offered her belief that it was the same concept for
other POA issues, such as enrolling a child in school, and the
parent would have the right to cancel the POA.
2:21:39 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE asked if existing law has the POA cancelling
provision in it.
MS. CARMODY said it does.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked why the bill is needed.
MS. NORE explained that originally the existing POA statute was
included in the bill. The sponsor made the bill more robust at
the request of OCS due to the sensitivity of the cases.
Currently, entities such as Beacon Hill operate under a variance
under OCS, and the intent is to allow those entities to continue
to provide services without running the risk that the variance
could be withdrawn.
2:23:36 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said he supports the concept of the bill
but believes the worst case scenarios should be considered
during the discussion. He summarized that the statute gives a
single parent the right to create a POA and does not require
both parents to sign it. He voiced concern when there is a
broken family and parents disagree. He asked if there should be
a requirement that both parents agree to the POA.
SENATOR GIESSEL explained that Chad Hutchinson, the majority's
attorney, provided a summary of delegation of powers by a
parent, which consists of a scale. The lowest end of the scale
is delegation of powers by a parent and requires no court
filing, does not affect the rights of a non-signing parent, and
can be revoked at any time. The next level up is guardianship
which requires court action. The bill provides for a nimble,
easy, safe process.
2:26:12 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI referred to language in Section 2 where it
says a parent or guardian of a minor child may delegate to
another person, whereas in subsection (b), line 9, it says "a
parent or guardian who delegates a power." He voiced concern
about a parent that is not informed, finds out about the POA,
and then is relying on the other person to revoke the POA.
MS. NORE referred to number 3 on the legal memo and pointed out
that the bill uses the singular term and the plural term.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI countered that it says one or both parents
can execute a POA for their child. The legal memo states that
the sponsor may want to address whether or not both parents must
sign the POA and what would happen if one parent disagreed. He
suggested specifying that both parents need to agree.
VICE CHAIR COGHILL asked for Ms. Carmody to comment.
MS. CARMODY offered her understanding that this language already
exists in the current POA statute. She noted that some parents
are missing or not involved and it would pose problems to have
to track down both parents or prove who they are.
2:29:39 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE referred to existing law AS 13.26.020 and Sec.
01.10.050(b), where it explains that the plural and singular
references to parent/parents includes both. Existing law allows
permission for POA by one or both parents.
VICE CHAIR COGHILL said he could see that when there is a
divided family, the POA may need to be resolved in court. He
asked if one parent has veto power in this bill.
MS. NORE said yes.
2:30:25 PM
SENATOR COSTELLO said she thought it was an implied power on
page 2, line 21, "unless a parent or guardian revokes a power of
attorney." She suggested adding "where reasonable" to avoid the
situation just described and to add protection.
MS. NORE explained that the issue with adding qualifications for
contacting a parent who is out of the picture is that the point
of the delegation of powers is to provide quick action when
there are emergency circumstances in the family. She gave an
example of a parent who relapses and is at risk of losing her
children. She concluded that qualifications could defeat the
whole purpose of the bill.
2:32:44 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI referred to page 2, lines 9 - 12. He said
he believes the lines mean the parent or guardian who delegated
the POA can revoke it. He suggested adding "either parent can
revoke the POA."
2:33:42 PM
MS. CARMODY said she likes the idea that both parents would have
the right to revoke the POA.
VICE CHAIR COGHILL asked whether Senator Wielechowski is
suggesting to make it explicit that it is either parent who can
revoke the POA.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said he was open to the discussion.
VICE CHAIR COGHILL offered his belief a parent has that right.
2:34:36 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE opined that is already the case in existing
law, but he was not opposed to clarification.
VICE CHAIR COGHILL said it is important to fine-tune the law at
this level.
SENATOR GIESSEL said she understands what Senator Wielechowski
is seeing in line 9, and she suggested, "Either a parent or
guardian under (a) of this section may revoke the power of
attorney at any time." It removes "who delegates a power" which
is where there is confusion.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI agreed that seems to solve the problem.
2:36:14 PM
VICE CHAIR COGHILL summarized that the idea is to strike "who
delegates a power."
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI suggested "who delegates a power under (a)
of this section."
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI removed his objection to adopting version
H.
VICE CHAIR COGHILL found no further objection and version H was
adopted.
2:37:00 PM
MS. NORE pointed out there was discussion about potentially
removing the word "property" on page 2, line 3.
2:37:30 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE moved Conceptual Amendment 1: in Section 2, on
page 2, line 3, remove the word "property" regarding the
delegation of powers over a minor child. It should now say
"regarding the care or custody of the minor child. . . "
2:38:03 PM
MS. NORE pointed out the additional need to remove "property" on
page 3, line 13.
SENATOR MICCICHE restated Conceptual Amendment 1 to remove the
word "property" on page 2, line 3, and on page 3, line 13.
VICE CHAIR COGHILL found no objection and Conceptual Amendment 1
was adopted.
2:39:13 PM
VICE CHAIR COGHILL referred to a potential amendment on page 2,
line 9, removing the words "who delegates a power under (a) of
this section."
SENATOR MICCICHE suggested removing "who delegates a power under
(a) of this section" from the first part of the sentence and
adding "under (a) of this section" after "power of attorney."
Then it would read "a parent or attorney may revoke the power of
attorney under (a) of this section at any time."
SENATOR COGHILL said he did not think it made any difference
because it falls under the "delegation of powers over minor
child" section. It was a stated right to revoke the POA.
2:40:37 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE said it is pointing to a specific POA.
Legislative Legal clarified that any parent or guardian can
revoke a POA.
SENATOR MICCICHE moved to adopt Conceptual Amendment 2, on page
2, line 9, where it says "a parent or guardian may revoke the
power of attorney under (a) of this section at any time" the
words "who delegates a power under (a) of this section" would be
removed.
VICE CHAIR COGHILL found no objection and Conceptual Amendment 2
was adopted.
2:42:24 PM
SENATOR COSTELLO noted there is another bill going through the
legislative process that removes any reference to "attorney-in-
fact" which is commonly used for POA.
SENATOR GIESSEL thanked Chair Costello for that information. She
said page 5, subsection (j)(2) has a definition of attorney-in-
fact related to this particular bill. She assumed revisers would
update it.
VICE CHAIR COGHILL commented that it was a good catch.
2:43:57 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE moved to report the CS for SB 180, version H as
amended, from committee with individual recommendations and
attached fiscal note.
VICE CHAIR COGHILL announced that without objection, CSSB
180(JUD) is reported from the Senate Judiciary Standing
Committee.
SB 174-REG. OF FIREARMS/KNIVES BY UNIV. OF AK
2:44:42 PM
VICE CHAIR COGHILL returned to public testimony for SB 174.
2:44:58 PM
CARL KANCIR, representing himself, testified in support of SB
174. He said an armed society is a safe society. He said the
college police said they could arrive at a crime scene in two
minutes, however, he shared his experience in the service and
opined that campus police cannot get there in time. He gave an
example of robbers in a bar. He gave an analogy of a hockey
game. He maintained that concealed carry is good for defense. He
shared a number of stories.
VICE CHAIR COGHILL thanked the testifier and held SB 174 in
committee.
2:50:36 PM
There being no further business to come before the committee,
Vice Chair Coghill adjourned the Senate Judiciary Standing
Committee at 2:50 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB 174 FiscalNote.pdf |
SJUD 3/2/2016 1:30:00 PM |
SB 174 |
| SB 180 Legal Memo 2-26-16 judiciary questions.pdf |
SJUD 3/2/2016 1:30:00 PM |
SB 180 |
| SB 180 CS Draft version H.pdf |
SJUD 3/2/2016 1:30:00 PM |
SB 180 |
| SB 180 Back Up Safe Families One-Pager.pdf |
SJUD 3/2/2016 1:30:00 PM |
SB 180 |
| SB 174 Support Emails.pdf |
SJUD 3/2/2016 1:30:00 PM |
SB 174 |
| SB 174 Opposition Emails.pdf |
SJUD 3/2/2016 1:30:00 PM |
SB 174 |
| SB 174 Opposition Andree.msg |
SJUD 3/2/2016 1:30:00 PM |
SB 174 |