03/18/2013 01:30 PM Senate JUDICIARY
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Confirmation Hearing: Board of Governors | |
| Confirmation Hearing: Commission on Judicial Conduct | |
| HJR4 | |
| HB69 | |
| SJR9 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | HB 69 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| HJR 4 | |||
| += | SJR 9 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE
March 18, 2013
1:34 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator John Coghill, Chair
Senator Lesil McGuire, Vice Chair
Senator Fred Dyson
Senator Donald Olson
Senator Bill Wielechowski
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS
Board of Governors of the Alaska Bar
Adam Trombley
- CONFIRMATION ADVANCED
Commission on Judicial Conduct
May Gurton Mead
- CONFIRMATION ADVANCED
CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 4(JUD) AM
Urging the President of the United States to rescind 23
executive orders, executive actions, and executive
recommendations, related to regulation of firearms; and urging
the United States Congress to refrain from passing legislation
that restricts the right of individuals to keep and bear arms.
- HEARD & HELD
COMMITTEE SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 69(JUD)
"An Act exempting certain firearms, firearm accessories, and
ammunition in this state from federal regulation; declaring
certain federal statutes, regulations, rules, and orders
unconstitutional under the Constitution of the United States and
unenforceable in this state; providing criminal penalties for
federal officials who enforce or attempt to enforce a federal
statute, regulation, rule, or order regulating certain firearms
and firearm accessories in this state; and providing for an
effective date."
- HEARD & HELD
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 9
Proposing amendments to the Constitution of the State of Alaska
relating to state aid for education.
- HEARD & HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HJR 4
SHORT TITLE: OPPOSE GUN CONTROL ORDERS & LEGISLATION
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) MILLETT
01/24/13 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/24/13 (H) JUD
02/06/13 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
02/06/13 (H) Heard & Held
02/06/13 (H) MINUTE(JUD)
02/08/13 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
02/08/13 (H) Moved CSHJR 4(JUD) Out of Committee
02/08/13 (H) MINUTE(JUD)
02/11/13 (H) JUD RPT CS(JUD) NT 6DP 1NR
02/11/13 (H) DP: MILLETT, PRUITT, LYNN, FOSTER,
LEDOUX, KELLER
02/11/13 (H) NR: GRUENBERG
02/27/13 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S)
02/27/13 (H) VERSION: CSHJR 4(JUD) AM
02/28/13 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/28/13 (S) JUD
03/18/13 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
BILL: HB 69
SHORT TITLE: EXEMPT FIREARMS FROM FEDERAL REGULATION
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) CHENAULT
01/16/13 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/16/13 (H) JUD
01/18/13 (H) BILL REPRINTED 1/17/13
02/08/13 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
02/08/13 (H) Heard & Held
02/08/13 (H) MINUTE(JUD)
02/18/13 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
02/18/13 (H) Moved CSHB 69(JUD) Out of Committee
02/18/13 (H) MINUTE(JUD)
02/20/13 (H) JUD RPT CS(JUD) NT 6DP 1NR
02/20/13 (H) DP: MILLETT, PRUITT, LYNN, FOSTER,
LEDOUX, KELLER
02/20/13 (H) NR: GRUENBERG
02/27/13 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S)
02/27/13 (H) VERSION: CSHB 69(JUD)
02/28/13 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/28/13 (S) JUD
03/15/13 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
03/15/13 (S) Heard & Held
03/15/13 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
03/18/13 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
BILL: SJR 9
SHORT TITLE: CONST. AM: EDUCATION FUNDING
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) DUNLEAVY
02/13/13 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/13/13 (S) EDC, JUD
02/15/13 (S) EDC REFERRAL REMOVED
02/15/13 (S) FIN REFERRAL ADDED AFTER JUD
02/15/13 (S) UPHOLD CHANGE TO REFERRALS Y11 N4 E4 A1
03/13/13 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
03/13/13 (S) Scheduled But Not Heard
03/15/13 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
03/15/13 (S) Heard & Held
03/15/13 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
03/18/13 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
WITNESS REGISTER
ADAM TROMBLEY, Appointee
Board of Governors of the Alaska Bar
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Board of
Governors of the Alaska Bar.
AMY GURTON MEAD, Appointee
Commission on Judicial Conduct
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Commission on
Judicial Conduct.
REPRESENTATIVE CHARISSE MILLETT
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HJR 4.
RODNEY DIAL, Lieutenant
Alaska State Troopers
Department of Public Safety (DPS)
Ketchikan, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified that DPS had no concerns with the
Senate CS for HB 69.
DAVID NEES, representing himself
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 9.
JERRY COVEY, representing himself
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 9.
DAVID BOYLE
Alaska Policy Forum
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 9.
TOM FINK, representing himself
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 9.
VICTOR FISCHER, representing himself
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in strong opposition to SJR 9.
DAN KENNEDY, representing himself
Wasilla, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 9.
SHARON AUBREY representing herself
Mat-Su, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 9.
SAMMY CRAWFORD, representing herself
Kenai, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Warned against passing SJR 9 without full
vetting, including in the Education Committee.
CONNIE BELL, representing herself
Petersburg, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 9.
MARY TOUTOUNJHI, representing herself
Soldotna, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SJR 9.
MIKE COONS, representing himself
Lazy Mountain Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 9.
JANE ANGVIK, representing herself
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SJR 9.
VICKI CHEKAN, representing herself
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 9.
ACTION NARRATIVE
1:34:34 PM
CHAIR JOHN COGHILL called the Senate Judiciary Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:34 p.m. Present at the call to
order were Senators Dyson, Olson, and Chair Coghill. Senators
McGuire and Wielechowski arrived soon thereafter.
^Confirmation Hearing: Board of Governors
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS
Board of Governors of the Alaska Bar
1:35:39 PM
CHAIR COGHILL announced the first order of business would be
confirmation hearings. He asked Mr. Trombley to introduce
himself and tell the committee why he was interested in serving
on the Board of Governors of the Alaska Bar.
1:36:08 PM
ADAM TROMBLEY, Appointee, Board of Governors of the Alaska Bar,
said he is an assembly member representing East Anchorage and
before that he served on the municipal budget advisory
commission. That service piqued his interest in serving on the
state level, and because he represents a large constituency of
Alaska Natives, he thought this service would broaden his
horizons and help him better serve the public he represents.
CHAIR COGHILL asked if he had attended any meetings of the Board
of Governors of the Alaska Bar.
MR. TROMBLEY said he attended his first meeting in January.
1:37:39 PM
CHAIR COGHILL found no further questions. He thanked Mr.
Trombley for being willing to serve and advised that he would
ask for a motion to forward Mr. Trombley's name after the
committee heard from the next appointee.
^Confirmation Hearing: Commission on Judicial Conduct
Commission on Judicial Conduct
CHAIR COGHILL asked Ms. Mead to introduce herself and tell the
committee why she was interested in serving on the Commission on
Judicial Conduct.
1:38:16 PM
AMY GURTON MEAD, Appointee, Commission on Judicial Conduct, said
she is an attorney in Juneau and she submitted her name because
she believes in public service. She finds the subject matter of
the commission interesting and believes it serves an important
role in maintaining a strong judiciary and fostering public
trust. She was honored to be asked to serve and to date had
attended two meetings.
1:39:39 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE joined the meeting.
CHAIR COGHILL asked what she found new or surprising in the two
meetings she attended.
MS. MEAD replied that she was enjoying the nuances of ethics
that apply to attorneys versus the judiciary.
SENATOR DYSON asked what ethical concerns the commission ought
to pay attention to with regard to judicial conduct.
MS. MEAD relayed that she was proud of the judiciary, but it
could be problematic when a judge is not aware of how his/her
behavior or decisions appear to unrepresented parties or parties
that have little contact with the court. What an attorney may
understand as a normal course of business may come across very
differently to someone without that experience.
SENATOR DYSON articulated concern about the underrepresented
indigent and the caseload of public defenders, and said he'd
enjoy her thoughts on that as time goes on. He asked if she, as
an attorney, had any sense that she would be under pressure for
disciplining a judge before whom she might have to appear.
MS. MEAD replied that it was not a concern.
1:43:30 PM
SENATOR DYSON thanked Ms. Mead for being willing to serve.
CHAIR COGHILL thanked Ms. Mead and asked for a motion to forward
both names to the full body for consideration.
1:43:58 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE moved and asked unanimous consent to forward to
the full body with individual recommendations the names Amy
Gurton Mead for a position on the Commission on Judicial Conduct
and Adam Trombley for a position on the Board of Governors.
1:44:41 PM
CHAIR COGHILL announced that without objection the names would
be forwarded to the full body for consideration.
HJR 4-OPPOSE GUN CONTROL ORDERS & LEGISLATION
1:44:57 PM
CHAIR COGHILL announced the consideration of HJR 4. [CSHJR
4(JUD) AM was before the committee.]
1:45:15 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CHARISSE MILLETT, sponsor of HJR 4, stated that
the resolution urges the President of the United States not to
issue executive actions related to the regulation of firearms,
because that might limit Alaskans' unique abilities to provide
food and protection for themselves. She opined that while the
shootings in Newtown Connecticut, Aurora Colorado, and Bethel
Alaska were tragic, gun control would not mitigate those
actions.
She said it was unclear what type of authorization the 23
actions or executive orders the President issued actually hold,
but the volume of gun legislation passing through Congress was
amazing. What was even more amazing was the idea that someone
from Washington, D.C. or New York City could regulate guns and
think it would be appropriate that the action take place in
Alaska.
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT asked the committee to stand with her to
support the Second Amendment right as well as the Ninth and
Tenth Amendments that give states the right to determine what
laws fit their state. These rights are particularly important
for gun and ammunition control because one size does not fit
all, she stated.
1:47:46 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI joined the committee.
CHAIR COGHILL asked if 23 [executive actions] was the correct
number, because he heard some conflicting debate on that.
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT affirmed that was the correct number. She
added that some of the recommendations were reasonable, but the
implications on a national level did not fit Alaskan lifestyles.
She granted that many violent offenders and people involved in
mass shootings have some type of mental health issue, but did
not agree with the notion of establishing a level of mental
illness to keep a person from owning a gun. She agreed that
mental health awareness should increase, but urged caution
because unreasonable restrictions may make people less likely to
report or get help with their mental illness. She maintained
that the recommendations by President Obama and Vice President
Biden should be addressed on a statewide level rather than a
national level, because many of the 23 actions do not fit
Alaska.
1:49:52 PM
CHAIR COGHILL asked if it was her experience that executive
actions or recommendations were more difficult to get ahold of
than executive orders.
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT agreed that executive orders were very
different from executive actions and they carried different
weight. When the President brought the 23 executive actions
forward there was misunderstanding in Alaska and other states,
but now she understands that they were recommendations.
SENATOR MCGUIRE thanked the sponsor for bringing this
legislation forward, and described the [23 executive actions]
illustrated more absurd federal overreach. She reviewed the
facts in the Newtown, Connecticut shooting and highlighted that
the gunman was not licensed to own a weapon, so he took his
mother's. She stated that as a mother, she would like to have
more trained and armed personnel in schools. She maintained that
Alaska doesn't see many mass shooting tragedies because the
state has concealed carry laws.
SENATOR DYSON explained that the difference between an executive
order and an executive action is that an executive order appears
in the Congressional Record. He stated that he certainly did not
want the decision about who is mentally fit to own a gun to be
centralized, and highlighted that one of the first things Hitler
did when he seized power in 1933 was to eliminate those he
deemed "mentally defective."
1:54:24 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if she wanted rescission of all 23
executive orders.
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT said yes, and she was asking the
President not to issue executive orders, actions, or
recommendations on gun control for Alaska.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI agreed that there should not be executive
orders on gun control, then pointed out that some of the
recommendations were reasonable. He asked the sponsor if she
disagreed with "Provide incentives for schools to hire school
resource officers."
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT responded that it was not a matter of
agreeing or disagreeing.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI interjected that the resolution urges the
President to rescind every single one of the recommendations. He
asked if she believes it was wrong and perhaps in violation of
the Second Amendment for the President to say that states should
provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT reiterated that the resolution was about
sending a message. While some of the 23 executive actions may be
realistic, it was the state's job to do that, not the
President's. The state may want to adopt some of the
recommendations, but it will also want to tailor them to Alaska.
She asserted that the executive actions were sound bites that
may be difficult to apply realistically. She drew a parallel to
the federal "No Child Left Behind" directive, which sounded good
on its face, but didn't work in Alaska. She reiterated that it
was not the federal government's job to tell Alaska when, how,
or where to use guns. It was the state's right to do that.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said he agreed with that, but hiring school
resource officers had nothing to do with guns. He then asked if
she thought there was something wrong with the recommendation to
"Launch a national dialog led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan
on mental health."
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT reiterated that the message the
resolution tries to send is that the federal government should
not issue a one-size-fits-all package for states to implement
gun regulations. She agreed that mental health should receive
more attention, but the President didn't need to tell the state
what it should be doing in this area.
1:57:33 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI clarified that the recommendation was to
launch a national dialog.
CHAIR COGHILL pointed out that the resolves go to the right to
keep and bear arms, not to the executive orders.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said he was trying to bring clarity to the
request to ask the President to rescind all 23 executive orders
- as called for in the title of the legislation - because a
number of them were very good. He cautioned that requesting
blanket rescission calls Alaska's credibility into question.
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT acknowledged that there might be some
good recommendations, but the point is that the state is telling
the federal government to stop issuing orders on gun control.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI argued that they weren't all on gun
control.
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT maintained that they were all on gun
control.
CHAIR COGHILL pointed out that the two resolution statements
talk about the individual right to keep and bear arms and
recommendations related to regulation of firearms. He described
the statements as very clear.
SENATOR MCGUIRE summarized that the point the sponsor was making
is that the state of Alaska collectively disagrees that the
federal government and the President should tell the state how
to address the issue of guns in the state. She stated support
for that collective statement of beliefs.
2:02:22 PM
CHAIR COGHILL said he didn't intent to move the bill today.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said he agreed with the resolve, but he did
not agree with rescission of all 23 resolves. Most Alaskans
would agree that some of them were good. He suggested that a
simple "tweak" on the title may resolve the issue.
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT explained that the resolution
specifically mentions the number 23 because the intention is to
be specific to the gun control measures the President is taking.
The message the resolution sends is that the federal government
cannot tell the State of Alaska and its citizens when, where,
and how it should control guns.
CHAIR COGHILL asked if it was a package of 23 orders, actions,
and recommendations.
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT answered yes.
2:04:22 PM
SENATOR OLSON observed that the resolution also had overreach
because it condemns all 23 executive orders, actions, and
recommendations when some should be supported.
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT responded that the resolution wasn't
condemning everything the President was doing; the point was
that it is the state's purview to make its own recommendations
on gun control, and those may or may not include some of the
President's recommendations.
SENATOR OLSON thanked the sponsor.
2:06:02 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE asked if her concern with the recommendation to
"Launch a national dialog led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan
on mental health." was that in the context of gun control it
could lead to a discussion about how to limit the rights of
those with mental health issues.
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT responded that everything in the package
is about gun control and this resolution is to make sure that
Alaska is not left out of the conversation.
2:07:47 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE indicated that she would talk to the sponsor
about a clarifying amendment.
CHAIR COGHILL held HJR 4 in committee.
HB 69-EXEMPT FIREARMS FROM FEDERAL REGULATION
2:08:44 PM
CHAIR COGHILL announced the consideration of HB 69. [SCS CSHB
69, labeled 28-LS0290\R, was before the committee.] He asked if
there were questions for Lieutenant Dial.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked for a sectional walk-though of the
Senate CS.
CHAIR COGHILL suggested he meet with both his staff and the
sponsor's staff for a full sectional walk-through.
2:10:07 PM
SENATOR DYSON asked Lieutenant Dial if anything in the Senate CS
would cause trouble for public safety officers in performing
their duty.
RODNEY DIAL, Lieutenant, Alaska State Troopers, Department of
Public Safety (DPS), Ketchikan, Alaska, stated that the
department reviewed the [Senate] CS and had no concerns with the
changes.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if DPS had any concerns with the
version that came to the Senate.
LIEUTENANT DIAL acknowledged that there was initial discussion
about how to address violations by federal officers, but those
concerns were addressed. If the version that passed the House
had become law, state law enforcement would have investigated
those violations the same as any other violation of law and
would have referred them to the Department of Law for review and
prosecution.
CHAIR COGHILL stated his intention to hold HB 69 in committee
and take additional public testimony on Wednesday.
SJR 9-CONST. AM: EDUCATION FUNDING
2:12:27 PM
CHAIR COGHILL announced the consideration of SJR 9 and opened
public testimony.
2:14:13 PM
DAVID NEES, representing himself, Anchorage, Alaska, reviewed
the dialog on day 48 of the Alaska Constitutional Convention and
quoted delegate Fischer. He highlighted that the final motion
that day was to strike the third sentence in art. VII, sec. 1,
which is exactly what SJR 9 does. The closing argument was that
public funds for education should not receive more restrictive
or more favored treatment. He said he believes that the public
purpose provision should be the only guide when it comes to
appropriating public funds, but the public purpose has probably
changed since 1957. The proposed constitutional amendment will
serve the public purpose, and a heartfelt public discussion on
how it will manifest itself is appropriate after it moves out of
the committee. The discussion could also include whether to
include the terms parochial or private.
2:20:02 PM
JERRY COVEY, representing himself, Anchorage, Alaska, said he is
an education and nonprofit consultant, former Alaska
commissioner of education, former school superintendent,
principal, and teacher in Alaska's public education system who
is testifying in support of SJR 9. He stated his belief that
public funds should only be used for public outcomes, and that
any organization that accepts public monies should be required
to abide by statutes and regulations governing public schools.
He also stated support for giving a voucher to every student in
Alaska and letting the parents decide where to use it as long as
the school complies with education statutes and regulations.
MR. COVEY said he appreciates that some professional groups see
SJR 9 as a threat to public education, but his view is that the
public education system belongs to the public and that voice
should be given priority over the voice of those who operate the
system. He warned that if SJR 9 fails at the legislative level,
the public will be denied its voice.
He recalled that in the past some professional groups opposed
the creation of education standards that are now considered the
foundation of the school system. It took significant public
engagement to override that internal opposition and move the
standards forward. He said he believes that the public deserves
that level of engagement on this issue. SJR 9 is an opportunity
to engage the public in making revisions to the education system
that will translate to better opportunities for parents and
students. He asked the committee to advance SJR 9 to give the
public its rightful opportunity to decide this issue.
2:23:08 PM
DAVID BOYLE, Alaska Policy Forum (APF), said APF supports SJR 9.
It will lead to better education outcomes for Alaskan students
and loosen the grip of special education interests. He
characterized education in Alaska as a monopoly and the Blaine
Amendment language in the Alaska Constitution as anti-Catholic
and anti-immigrant. He described the differing points of view as
a battle between those who support the right of parents to
choose the best education for their child, and those who want to
maintain their stranglehold on Alaska education.
MR. BOYLE quoted the past general counsel for the NEA to
illustrate that to the NEA this was a matter of power and
control. He noted that NEA-Alaska had collected more than $5.6
million in dues for the current school year, but that it was
only using its power and influence to speak for itself and its
members, not for the children of Alaska.
He said the Alaska Constitution has provisions for amending the
document and the people play a large part in that process. He
urged the committee to give the people the opportunity to vote
on this important matter.
2:27:30 PM
TOM FINK, representing himself, stated that he is a board member
of a private K-12 school in the Anchorage area and an active in
a volunteer taskforce that supports SJR 9. He urged the
committee to allow the public to decide the issue and not allow
NEA leadership to deny the public the opportunity to make this
important decision. He emphasized that the existing inadequate
K-12 situation cannot be solved without this constitutional
amendment.
2:29:28 PM
VICTOR FISCHER, representing himself, stated opposition to SJR
9, the proposed constitutional amendment that would provide
public funds for religious and other private educational
institutions. He affirmed that he was a delegate to the Alaska
Constitutional Convention and noted that he was quoted in
earlier testimony. He relayed that he also served in the
Territorial Legislature and the Alaska State Senate.
MR. FISCHER highlighted that earlier testimony quoted him as
having been in favor of eliminating the language that SJR 9
proposes to strike. That language says, "No money shall be paid
from public funds for the direct benefit of any religious or
other private educational institution." Mr. Fischer clarified
that in principle he opposed eliminating that language during
the Constitutional Convention days in 1955-1956, and he opposes
eliminating that language today. He reiterated that he opposes
the concept of public funding of private educational
institutions, including religious institutions.
MR. FISCHER explained that the quote was not in context. It had
more to do with placement of the prohibition than whether to
fund private and religious educational institutions. He said
there was no objection during the Constitutional Convention to
having that language in the Alaska Constitution; it was the
principle that was involved of what constitutes public interest
and what constitutes use of public funds for public purposes.
MR. FISCHER said his basic concern with eliminating the third
sentence [in art. VII, sec. 1] and then adding language to the
finance art. [IX] is that it effectively removes any kind of
constitutional limitation on putting public money into private
and religious institutions. He suggested that leaving the
education language and amending the public purpose article might
achieve the aim that most people who have spoken in favor of SJR
9 are after. That is to benefit the individual child, which is
what was accepted at the Constitutional Convention.
Removing the provision against public funding for the direct
benefit of religious and other institutions combined with the
amendment to the finance article leaves the gates wide open to
provide money through the student for the direct benefit of
religious and other private educational institutions. He said he
was bothered by the combination, because of the potential for
subsequent abuse.
MR. FISCHER concluded that he very much opposed SJR 9 as
currently written.
2:34:37 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI noted the earlier testimony that this was a
discriminatory provision, and asked if that was his recollection
of how this amendment was adopted.
MR. FISCHER replied that it was never thought of in those terms.
Free-thinkers were well represented at the Constitutional
Convention; there was no discrimination and the language was in
accordance with that approach. He noted that a convention
colleague pointed this out in his strong arguments on behalf of
adding the word "indirect." He wanted it very clear that public
funds would not go for the direct or indirect benefit of
religious and other private educational institutions. His
argument, in part, was that parents can choose to put their
children in a public educational institution or a private
educational institution. It was a matter of not having public
tax monies go directly or indirectly for the benefit of
religious institutions. He reiterated with emphasis that it was
not meant to be discriminatory and has never been
discriminatory.
MR. FISCHER noted that one of the arguments made on behalf of
this amendment was that public money was already going for the
benefit of students. His perspective was that if that was
already occurring and hadn't been challenged, then there was no
need for the amendment.
2:38:26 PM
DAN KENNEDY, representing himself, said his three children
graduated from the Wasilla school system with high honors. Two
are currently at the Annapolis Military Academy and the third is
at the U.S. Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. He described
the requirements and rigorous competition to gain entrance to
these academies and stated that he and his wife believe that
competition with education is imperative. For that reason they
support the opportunity for Alaskans to vote to change the
constitution to allow for choice, including private education.
He said he understands that the accelerated programs his
children participated in through elementary and middle school
were eliminated because of budget constraints and other
requirements of public education. This is unfortunate because he
knows that options must be available if gifted Alaskans are to
continue to compete with some of America's finest students. He
urged the committee to support SJR 9.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI observed that his children did very well
going through the public schools.
MR. KENNEDY restated how important the extended learning
programs in elementary school and middle school were in
preparing his children to attend elite colleges.
2:43:02 PM
SHARON AUBREY, representing herself, described the barriers she
encountered as a parent educator trying to fulfill her
children's individual learning plans (ILPs) because of
constitutional language interpretations. These restrictions
hinder many public school students from achieving their academic
and career goals. For example, if she purchases a sectarian
textbook to fulfill her daughter's ILP for an algebra class, her
allotment will not pay for the scientific calculator. However,
if she buys a secular textbook the allotment will pay for that
same calculator. Materials that are used daily in brick and
mortar schools are denied to other public school students in
alternative programs because of the current interpretation of
the constitution.
MS. AUBREY said she wasn't necessarily asking the state to
purchase faith-based curriculums. She was asking for a change in
the constitutional language so that courses that meet state
grade level expectations could be recognized for enrollment, and
for the basic supporting materials required for general
education to be made available.
She stated her belief that SJR 9 would solve the limitations and
problems currently facing the public education system and give
better educational options, curriculums, and materials for
Alaskan students to succeed.
2:46:01 PM
SAMMY CRAWFORD, representing herself, said she was a classroom
teacher for 30 years and a member of the Board of Education for
15 years. She stated her belief that SJR 9 needed full vetting
and the potential impact explored before moving forward. Since
it was an education issue, the Education Committee should be
part of the process. She pointed out that every ten years the
voters are asked whether or not they want a constitutional
convention to vet major changes, and since statehood they have
always declined.
MS. CRAWFORD described herself as a public education advocate
who believes that to further divide the pie of financial
assistance to public schools would make it more difficult for
public education.
2:48:08 PM
CONNIE BELL, representing herself, described herself as a
homeschooling mom who takes the responsibility for educating her
children very seriously. She offered her belief that the
responsibility of choosing the best education possible lies
first with parents. The opportunity to vote on whether or not to
amend the constitution would begin the process of giving
Alaskans that freedom. Competition has always has always
encouraged excellence and better stewardship of finances and
resources, and freedom produces prosperity. Don't be afraid to
give Alaskans the freedom to choose; put the amendment on the
ballot, she said.
2:49:37 PM
MARY TOUTOUNJHI, representing herself, described herself as a
25-year public school educator who had strong feelings about
public education. She pointed out that both the state and
federal constitutions mandate the concept of separation of
church and state, and the concept of public education available
to all. SJR 9 denies both of these concepts. She said she
respects religious beliefs but doesn't want the state funding
those beliefs.
MS. TOUTOUNJHI observed that this resolution represents a
consistent pattern. It will reduce funding to schools already
stressed by reductions in funding and it will make it impossible
to make long-term plans and set educational goals because
funding will be inconsistent year-to-year. She offered her
belief that one of the single most effective ways to maintain a
viable government of the people is to provide a strong
educational base. She urged the committee to leave the
constitution alone.
2:52:52 PM
MIKE COONS, representing himself, said he supports SJR 9 and
fully opposes the notion of separation of church and state. He
quoted the First Amendment and argued that giving parents the
right to choose their child's school does not mean the State of
Alaska is establishing a religion to get an education. He
discussed the history of schooling and pointed out that
Jefferson, Madison, and Adams had no formal schooling until
their teens and they went on to write the Declaration of
Independence, the U.S. Constitution, and the Bill of Rights.
MR. COONS quoted Wikipedia on the history of education and noted
that states that adopted Blaine Amendment language did so
because they felt that Catholic children should be educated in
public schools to become American, not to stop a religious
belief. Then in 1925 the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that students
could attend private schools to comply with state compulsory
education laws, thereby giving parochial schools an official
blessing.
He corrected testimony a professor gave to a joint committee
that Wisconsin and the District of Columbia showed improvement
after giving parents choices outside of public education. In
fact, the testimony was that the underprivileged were the vast
majority who moved out of public schools and into private
schools with immediate and long-lasting increases in learning
and graduation rates. Public schools were helped from a
financial standpoint. Clearly, giving parents and children a
choice in their education benefits all. He urged the committee
to pass SJR 9 and give the people the opportunity to debate,
learn, and vote on this important matter.
2:56:43 PM
JANE ANGVIK, representing herself, stated opposition to SJR 9.
She said she believes the prohibition in the constitution
against using public funds for private and religious education
is appropriate and should be retained. She reminded the members
that they weren't just deciding on whether to let the people
vote, because they were actually required use their judgment to
decide whether this was a good idea or not. She encouraged the
committee to consider the financial obligations to the state for
including the opportunity for public funding for private or
religious education. She questioned whether the state was
prepared for the financial cost of adding the 9,600 students
that are currently enrolled in private schools in Alaska to the
current education budget. She encouraged the committee to
seriously consider the content and ramifications of SJR 9.
2:58:52 PM
VICKI CHEKAN, representing herself, said she had experience with
both homeschooling and the public system and she was testifying
in support of SJR 9. She urged the committee to consider the
derivation of the original language and to examine the
historical interpretation against universal principles, and to
base their vote on factual information from varied sources, as
opposed to special interests.
MS. CHEKAN quoted the opening section of "The Making of America:
The Substance and Meaning of the Constitution" to support the
position that the founding fathers did not intend to remove
religion from formal education. She expressed hope that the
committee would allow the people to determine the future of
their government and their lives.
3:05:34 PM
CHAIR COGHILL held SJR 9 in committee and stated his intention
to take additional public testimony on Wednesday.
3:06:11 PM
There being no further business to come before the committee,
Chair Coghill adjourned the Senate Judiciary Standing Committee
meeting at 3:06 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HJR004C (JUD am.pdf |
SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
HJR 4 |
| HJR 4 Obama 23 Executive Actions 01262013.pdf |
SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
HJR 4 |
| HJR 4 Fiscal Note.pdf |
SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
HJR 4 |
| HJR 4 List of Executive Actions.pdf |
SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
HJR 4 |
| HJR 4 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
HJR 4 |
| Senate CS for CS HB 69.pdf |
SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
HB 69 |
| Bob Bird Written Testimony.doc |
HJUD 2/8/2013 1:00:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
HB 69 |
| HB 69 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
HJUD 2/8/2013 1:00:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
HB 69 |
| CSHB69.pdf |
HJUD 2/8/2013 1:00:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
HB 69 |
| Fiscal Note -DOC.pdf |
HJUD 2/8/2013 1:00:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
HB 69 |
| Fiscal Note-DPS.pdf |
HJUD 2/8/2013 1:00:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
HB 69 |
| Fiscal Note-LAW.pdf |
HJUD 2/8/2013 1:00:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
HB 69 |
| Lynn Willis Testimony on HB 69.pdf |
HJUD 2/8/2013 1:00:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
HB 69 |
| Wyoming Pushes Ban On Gun Bans.pdf |
HJUD 2/8/2013 1:00:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
HB 69 |
| 1 - SJR 9 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
SJUD 3/13/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/15/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| 2 - SJR 9 Quick Reference.pdf |
SJUD 3/13/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/15/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| 3 - Leg Legal March 8 Memo.pdf |
SJUD 3/13/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/15/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| 4 - Leg Legal March 4 Memo.pdf |
SJUD 3/13/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/15/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| 5 - Amendments to the Constitution.pdf |
SJUD 3/13/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/15/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| 6 - Alaska Performance Scholarship Data.pdf |
SJUD 3/13/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/15/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| SJR 9 Power point Presentation.pdf |
SJUD 3/15/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| 7 - AlaskaAdvantage Education Grant.pdf |
SJUD 3/13/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/15/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| 8 - Select Grants to Ed Programs Facilities Training.pdf |
SJUD 3/13/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/15/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| 9 - Supplemental Education Service Providers.pdf |
SJUD 3/15/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| 10 - Mat-Su SES and Home School Vendors.pdf |
SJUD 3/15/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| 11 - Komer 2013 House testimony.pdf |
SJUD 3/15/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| 16 - Blaine Amendment.pdf |
SJUD 3/15/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| HB 69 Letter from Ellsman.pdf |
SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
HB 69 |
| HB 69 Testimony from Mike Coons.pdf |
SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
HB 69 |
| Letter from Covey.pdf |
SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 Letter from Covey |
| Letter from Juneau School District.pdf |
SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 Letter from Juneau School District |
| SJR 9 Letter from Kathy Simpler.pdf |
SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| Letter from Nome School District.pdf |
SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| SJR 9 Letter from Sarah Welton, Pastor.docx |
SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| SJR 9 Letter from Nana.pdf |
SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| SJR 9 Letter from Tracy Martin.pdf |
SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| 2005_AG_Memo.pdf |
SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| TESTIMONY REGARDING HB 69 Senate Willis.doc |
SJUD 3/18/2013 1:30:00 PM |
HB 69 |