Legislature(2009 - 2010)BUTROVICH 205
04/08/2009 01:30 PM Senate JUDICIARY
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Confirmation Hearing - Attorney General | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE
April 8, 2009
1:35 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Hollis French, Chair
Senator Bill Wielechowski, Vice Chair
Senator Lesil McGuire
Senator Gene Therriault
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Senator Donny Olson
Senator Linda Menard
Senator Charlie Huggins
Senator Johnny Ellis
Representative Mike Doogan
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CONFIRMATION HEARING(S)
Attorney General
WAYNE ANTHONY ROSS - Anchorage
HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
No Previous Action to Report
WITNESS REGISTER
WAYNE ANTHONY ROSS, Attorney General Appointee
Anchorage, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as Appointee to the position of
Attorney General.
BRADLEY J. FLUETSCH, Grand President
Alaska Native Brotherhood (ANB) and
Alaska Native Sisterhood (ANS) Grand Camp and
Glacier Valley ANB and ANS Camp 70
Juneau, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to Wayne Anthony
Ross as attorney general.
ROBERT LOESCHER
Central Council
Tlingit Haida Indian Tribes of Alaska
Juneau, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to Wayne Anthony
Ross as attorney general.
MARSHA BUCK
Alaskans Together for Equality Incorporated
Juneau, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to Wayne Anthony
Ross as attorney general.
NELSON ANGAPOK, SR., representing himself
Anchorage, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to Wayne Anthony
Ross as attorney general.
FRED TRABER, representing himself, his spouse, and others who
comprise the gay community of Alaska
Anchorage, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to Wayne Anthony
Ross as attorney general.
JAKE JACOBSON, representing himself
Kodiak, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Wayne Anthony Ross
as attorney general.
VICTOR VITALIE, representing himself
Anchorage, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to Wayne Anthony
Ross as attorney general.
PAMELA SAMASH, representing herself
Nenana, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Wayne Anthony Ross
as attorney general.
ROBERT FITHIAN, representing himself
Lower Tonsina, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Wayne Anthony Ross
as attorney general.
TOM LAKOSH, representing himself
Anchorage, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to Wayne Anthony
Ross as attorney general.
CHRIS KINNY, representing himself
Anchorage, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Wayne Anthony Ross
as attorney general.
LYNNETT BERGH, representing herself
North Pole, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Wayne Anthony Ross
as attorney general.
BYRON HALEY, representing himself
Fairbanks, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Wayne Anthony Ross
as attorney general.
PAUL EAGLIN, representing himself
Fairbanks, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to Wayne Anthony
Ross as attorney general.
SHAYLE HUTCHISON, representing herself
Fairbanks, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to Wayne Anthony
Ross as attorney general.
SCOTT TRAFFORD CALDER, representing himself
Fairbanks, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Wayne Anthony Ross
as attorney general.
MIKE PROX, representing himself
North Pole, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Wayne Anthony Ross
as attorney general.
MELVIN GROVE representing himself and
MatSu Advisory Council
MatSu, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Wayne Anthony Ross
as attorney general.
KAREN LEWIS, representing herself
MatSu, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Wayne Anthony Ross
as attorney general.
PETER M. PROBASCO, representing himself and his family
MatSu, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Wayne Anthony Ross
as attorney general.
KAREN LACKEY, representing herself
MatSu, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Wayne Anthony Ross
as attorney general.
EARL LACKEY, representing himself
Wasilla, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Wayne Anthony Ross
as attorney general.
ROSE FOSDICK
Kawerak Inc
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to Wayne Anthony
Ross as attorney general.
NORMAN ANDERSON
Bristol Bay Native Association
Dillingham, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to Wayne Anthony
Ross as attorney general.
LEO WASSILIE, representing himself
Anchorage, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to Wayne Anthony
Ross as attorney general.
PAGE HODSON, representing herself,
Anchorage, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to Wayne Anthony
Ross as attorney general.
DEBORAH BURLINSKI, representing herself
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to Wayne Anthony
Ross as attorney general.
WILLIE ANDERSON, PFLAG of Juneau
Juneau, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to Wayne Anthony
Ross as attorney general.
JAY STEVEN REESE, representing himself
Juneau, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to Wayne Anthony
Ross as attorney general.
ALFRED MCKINLEY
ANB and ANS Camps throughout Alaska
Juneau, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to Wayne Anthony
Ross as attorney general.
BRIAN JUDY, Alaska Liaison
National Rifle Association
Anchorage, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Wayne Anthony Ross
as attorney general.
ACTION NARRATIVE
1:35:03 PM
CHAIR HOLLIS FRENCH called the Senate Judiciary Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:35 p.m. Present at the call to
order were Senators, Wielechowski, Therriault, McGuire and
French. Also present were Senators Olson and Menard, and
Representative Doogan.
^CONFIRMATION HEARING - Attorney General
CONFIRMATION HEARING
1:35:41 PM
CHAIR FRENCH stated that this hearing is to fulfill the
constitutional requirement and duty under Article 3, Section 25
to confirm heads of departments. The Citizen's Guide to the
Constitution published by the Legislative Affairs Agency points
out that confirmation of executive appointees is a key
legislative check on the executive branch. Governor Palin has
appointed Mr. Wayne Anthony Ross to the position of attorney
general, subject to legislative confirmation.
CHAIR FRENCH pointed out that Mr. Ross has an extensive public
record and has been a recognizable landmark on the Alaska
landscape for some time. He said his intention for the hearing
today is to have a thorough, vigorous and respectful dialog with
Mr. Ross about his qualifications for this important position.
Senator French said he intends to cover a variety of subjects
this afternoon and public testimony will be taken at 5:30 pm
this evening. Mr. Ross will have an opportunity to respond to
that testimony if he feels the need to do so. Given the
committee's schedule and the fact that Mr. Ross's confirmation
hearing before the House Judiciary Committee is on Friday,
there's a good possibility that the hearing won't be concluded
until Monday, April 13, he said.
CHAIR FRENCH welcomed Mr. Ross and asked him to state his name
and affiliation for the record.
1:37:29 PM
WAYNE ANTHONY ROSS, governor's appointee as Attorney General,
introduced himself.
CHAIR FRENCH asked Mr. Ross why he accepted the governor's offer
of this important position.
MR. ROSS related that he first came to Alaska in 1967 and fell
in love with the state. "It's been very good to me and when I
had a chance to do some public service, I jumped at the chance,"
he said.
CHAIR FRENCH asked what he sees as the greatest strength he will
bring to the position of attorney general.
MR. ROSS replied he brings integrity.
CHAIR FRENCH asked the greatest weakness he will bring to the
position.
MR. ROSS replied it's probably that he speaks his mind. "And so
I get shot at once in awhile. I don't know if that's a strength
or a weakness, but that's caused me problems from time-to-time,
he said.
CHAIR FRENCH asked who he perceives the attorney general's
primary client to be.
MR. ROSS returned the statutes make clear that the attorney
general represents the people of the state of Alaska and gives
advice to the governor and other state officials. "We have
probably quite a few clients with people coming to us from time-
to-time for advice," he said.
1:38:57 PM
CHAIR FRENCH said I hear you saying you'll have a divided client
list.
MR. ROSS responded it's rather like representing a family. "Dad
might come to you, Mom might come to you, and one of the kids
might come to you so you got to do a little tap dancing and
balancing act, but I think it can be done," he said.
CHAIR FRENCH questioned how he would handle a conflict between
his duty to the governor and his duty to the law.
MR. ROSS responded that his duty to the law comes first. "I took
an oath to support and defend the constitution of the United
States and that of the State of Alaska. I didn't take an oath to
support and defend the governor," he added.
CHAIR FRENCH said you will have the largest law firm in the
state at your disposal. Which legal question will you choose to
concentrate on first?
MR. ROSS replied he will first concentrate on getting to know
who the lawyers are and their areas of responsibility. The
system has worked well and I don't anticipate major changes, he
said. "I can't think of anything I'd put 50 lawyers on - maybe
you can," he added.
1:40:59 PM
SENATOR OLSON asked Mr. Ross where he was raised, where he went
to school, and if he's done anything other than practice law.
Obviously you're known throughout the state but I'd like more
background, he said.
MR. ROSS said he's worked since he was 12 years old and has
hauled garbage, cut grass, mended fences, and soled shoes.
During high school, college and law school he worked between 20
and 30 hours a week. Responding to a question he said he
attended Marquette University in Milwaukee. He first came to
Alaska in the summer of 1967. He and his wife moved permanently
to Alaska the following year after he finished law school. He
worked for the Alaska Department of Law for a year, Judge
Butcher in family court for four years, a private attorney for
four years, and then in 1977 he opened his own office. "When the
governor asked me to take over the job of attorney general and I
started taking the pictures off the wall at my office, that's
when it really hit me that I was sorry that I didn't have any
kids that I could turn the law office over to because I've made
a good living doing it," he said. He and his wife have four
grown children.
1:45:08 PM
CHAIR FRENCH found no further introductory questions and said
he'd next like to talk about public safety because that is a
prime role of the attorney general. He asked Mr. Ross what he
perceives to be the number one public safety issue in the state
of Alaska.
MR. ROSS replied one is alcoholism, but he's also very concerned
about the number of seemingly random shootings that are taking
place. He said that as a criminal defense attorney he's seen
cases that he believes should have been prosecuted and weren't
and cases that were prosecuted that shouldn't have been. He
continued:
I think one of the things I would like to do first is
meet with the commissioner of Public Safety and learn
more about what he sees the number one issues are. I
would also like to get the focus on the Department of
Law … going after serious crimes rather than people
who maybe find themselves accidently on the wrong end
of the law. Somebody joked that Alaska Airlines stock
should be purchased because if Ross got in as attorney
general all the criminals would go south. I like to
think that's true.
MR. ROSS mused that Alaska has seen great change with regard to
crime. When he was a children's court judge the worst crime was
when a kid stole some tires. Now young people kill one another
and something needs to be done about that, he said.
1:47:05 PM
CHAIR FRENCH noted that Mr. Ross identified alcohol as the
number one public safety issue and asked if he has specific
plans to address that issue.
MR. ROSS responded it seems that if alcohol isn't involved drugs
are. He continued to say that, "Right now my plans are to get
through the confirmation process and after that I can start
going after big issues."
CHAIR FRENCH mentioned the work this committee has done and will
continue to do on sex assault and sex abuse of a minor and asked
where prosecution of those cases would be on his list of
priorities.
MR. ROSS responded, "The greatest asset Alaska has is its
children and I think sexual abuse cases of children should be
right up in some of the highest lists of people to be
prosecuted. There's simply no excuse for that."
1:48:51 PM
CHAIR FRENCH asked if he is aware that Alaska has a rate of
sexual assault that is roughly 2.5 times higher than the rest of
the nation.
MR. ROSS responded, "I've heard that and I have no way to verify
whether or not that's correct, but that's something that needs
to be studied and determine what the reason is if that's true."
CHAIR FRENCH said the reasons are difficult to pinpoint, but it
is beyond dispute. The uniform crime reports of data gathered by
police agencies statewide and reported to the FBI come back
year-after-year identifying Alaska as having consistently
horrible performance in this area. This committee recently
became aware of the 2002-2003 research done by the University of
Alaska Justice Center on 1,379 cases of sex assault reported to
the Alaska State Troopers. Those 1,379 cases were winnowed
through the process of trooper investigations and referrals to
the Department of Law, DOL screening and acceptance rates, and
DOL prosecution rates to produce 217 convicted sex offenders.
That suggests that a lot of work needs to be done upstream of
the Department of Law, he said. An enormous amount of work needs
to be done in the villages with respect to training Village
Public Safety Officers and with respect to training sex assault
nurses to gather information. He conveyed his desire that Mr.
Ross share the committee's conviction to work strenuously to
improve what appears to be a one in four conviction rate.
MR. ROSS replied, "I certainly will and I also will advise you
that I'll attempt to give you my full attention at all times-as
the rest of the Legislature."
1:51:27 PM
CHAIR FRENCH asked if he ever defended a sex abuse of a minor
case.
MR. ROSS said no because all his clients were innocent and he
doesn't have much sympathy for that sort of case. He added:
I have represented parents against the [former]
Department of Family and Children [Youth] Services
when an older teenage child would make those
allegations. And when I was absolutely convinced that
those allegations were false, then I represented them.
And eventually in many of the cases we proved the case
- as much as you can - that we proved that the case
was false. But making an allegation of sexual abuse is
like shooting an arrow. You can never call it back.
And it's one of the most vicious allegations that can
be made against a person if it's false because people
will always wonder whether or not there was any truth
to it. So it's a very difficult case to defend when
the Department of Health and Social Services is
involved because how do you prove a negative? It's a
bad situation all around. It's an easy allegation to
make; it's a hard allegation to defend against.
CHAIR FRENCH remarked that's a good segue into the next area of
family law and domestic violence.
1:53:01 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said, "As attorneys we all have a
fundamental belief in our clients that they're innocent if we're
defending them and that they're guilty if we're prosecuting
them."
MR. ROSS returned he would think that that is one of the
difficulties associated with being a public defender. "Most of
the people that a public defender gets probably are guilty and
you probably find out they are guilty and yet you have to stand
up there and put on a strong defense." He added his sincere
belief that most of his clients were innocent.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said Vic Kohring was a very high profile
client of yours and you wrote a very high profile letter stating
Mr. Kohring's innocence. After listening to the evidence did you
change your opinion?
MR. ROSS said no. He added:
I represented Vic Kohring…just in the very beginning
and we went to the U.S. attorney's office and I
reviewed the evidence as much as they showed me at
that time. They wanted Vic to change the plea to
something and I told him I thought that their case was
Bravo Sierra -- if you know what I mean. And I advised
Vic to do certain things and Vic didn't follow my
advice and hired an attorney from Seattle. And that's
all I'm at liberty to say but I felt that Vic's main
problem is that he was naive.
1:55:18 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI noted that the governor called for Mr.
Kohring's resignation and asked if he believes that she made a
correct call.
MR. ROSS responded she called for former U.S. Senator Ted
Steven's resignation too and he didn't believe either call was
correct. "I believe our system of justice should work first
before somebody is publicly asked to resign," he said. Had the
governor made private contact and asked for his resignation it
would have been better.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said you probably wouldn't agree with the
governor's call for Senator Begich to resign either.
MR. ROSS replied he doesn't agree with that call either.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if he believes that former Representative
Kohring was innocent.
1:56:45 PM
MR. ROSS said "I do believe that he was innocent but naive."
He's stuck with being found guilty until the appeal goes
through, but I don't personally believe that he is guilty, Mr.
Ross added.
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked if the videos were available at the
time he was advising Mr. Kohring.
MR. ROSS acknowledged that he watched those videos.
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked if he came to that conclusion after
having seen the videotape evidence.
MR. ROSS responded he doesn't know if he saw all the videos but
did he spend several hours with the U.S. attorney. "And they put
on quite a dog and pony show and I wasn't convinced."
CHAIR FRENCH asked if he spent a number of years as a family
lawyer.
MR. ROSS replied between 45 percent and 50 percent of his
practice involved family law.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if he would represent a particular side or
just the first person to approach him.
MR. ROSS replied it was usually was the first person who came to
him with money.
CHAIR FRENCH asked his view on the use of restraining orders in
the process of a divorce.
MR. ROSS replied:
I think it's much abused. I think the system is set up
so the first person to the court house gets a
restraining order [and that] puts the other person to
a sincere disadvantage. I think restraining orders are
sometimes granted when they shouldn't be. On the other
hand, we have a high incident of domestic violence in
this state and that concerns me too. And so we have
judges, I think, or magistrates that seem to be
overworked and perhaps haven't read the law real
carefully in that I think they bend over backwards to
grant restraining orders. But the system is needed
because of the large amount of violence, but it's also
abused.
1:59:04 PM
CHAIR FRENCH said you've worked in this area for a long time and
I hear you saying that this is a difficult area of law.
MR. ROSS said when people ask how he can handle divorce cases he
tells them:
I go home at night and I see the lady I've been
married to and I think 'Boy am I lucky.' And that's
why I can handle them. And I also say somebody's got
to clean up after the elephants at the end of the
parade and that's a divorce lawyer's job, I think.
CHAIR FRENCH said with respect to restraining orders a judge has
to strike a balance in what may be a violent and disintegrating
family situation. The judge has to listen to a single petitioner
making an allegation of domestic violence and decide the
appropriate action. Your view is that from time-to-time that
power is abused in a petition that shouldn't be granted, but you
concede that there is a lot of domestic violence and we need to
do something, Senator French said. "Have you thought of any
legal or legislative solutions to what you perceive as a
problem?" he asked.
2:00:39 PM
MR. ROSS replied he believes it's the litigants rather than the
judges who are abusing the system. "I think it takes a bit more
time and maybe we need some more judges looking at it because
it's kind of a revolving door where people go in and grab their
order and get back out again." Perhaps judges need to spend more
time looking at cases but it's important to keep in mind that
whatever order that judge issues will affect another person's
rights. "Too often you have people that have a spat…and one
person suddenly finds themselves out of the house for 20 days
without clothes, without work tools and it's…a pretty strong
remedy for people that have arguments. So I don't have the
solution, but I do know the problem," Mr. Ross said.
CHAIR FRENCH observed that children are frequently the fallout
from divorces. They're the unwilling participants in divorce and
family situations that have a violent trend. "I'm sure you're
aware of the cycle of domestic violence. The lead up, the
explosive outburst, the making up afterwards, the promises that
there won't be any future problems and then the slowly building
pressure of the violent and isolating tendencies as they renew
themselves," Senator French said. Surely you've come across that
in your time as a family lawyer.
CHAIR FRENCH noted that Mr. Ross would be overseeing lawyers
from the Office of Children's Services (OCS) and asked his view
of that agency.
MR. ROSS said he has a sign on his bookshelf that says that the
best thing a dad can do for his children is to love their
mother. He continued:
We made divorces a little too easy in my opinion,
first of all. When I started with the family court we
had court-ordered marriage counseling and the parties
would have to go to marriage counseling to see if
there was any possibility to make the marriage work.
We had - and this is probably a bit much - but you had
to have grounds to get divorced. Now we've got no-
fault divorce where one person says, we're
incompatible and the other person says we're not
incompatible. Or one person says we're incompatible
and the other one says we're incompatible and they can
get divorced. You can get divorced even if you can't
agree on whether you're compatible or not. So perhaps
divorce is a bit easy. Maybe we ought to require some
kind of counseling to see if we can't keep the family
together a bit more. That would be one solution.
2:04:28 PM
CHAIR FRENCH asked his view of the role of OCS workers in
protecting children in households where there is abuse and
domestic violence.
MR. ROSS said their job to protect the children. His experience
is from the outside looking in. He continued:
On many occasions these social workers seem to be more
intent in getting children out of the home than they
are in working to keep children in the home. …I've
wondered whether it wasn't a matter of numbers. In
other words, the more kids that they could get into
the system of foster homes the more money they could
come to you and justify getting. And so, I didn't see
a lot of people with heart in that profession. There
were some, some good ones, but I didn't see a lot of
people that really had a heart and really were
interested in trying to work something out.
2:06:07 PM
CHAIR FRENCH highlighted that research indicates that most
children are abused by someone who has access to their home.
Oftentimes it's a family member or a relative or an
acquaintance. Children aren't dragged into the bushes, they're
abused in their homes, he said.
MR. ROSS said:
But if you carry that further then we should take all
the children out of their home immediately after
birth. Then they would have less chance of being
abused. I don't believe in that. I don't believe that
most parents are abusers. I believe that most parents
love their children. And I think that if children are
abused they should be taken out of the home and there
should be some intensive counseling and maybe kept out
of the home forever. But I don't believe that most
children are abused in their own home by their
parents.
CHAIR FRENCH said he agrees that most children are raised in
healthy families, but it's those remaining children who are
abused in their homes. They're abused by parents or relatives
who have alcohol problems, anger problems, or problems
controlling their emotions and they lash out at the weakest and
most defenseless members of society. "Are we in agreement?" he
asked.
MR. ROSS replied, "We're in 100 percent agreement."
CHAIR FRENCH asked if he perceives the workers who are charged
with ensuring the safety of children as working to destroy
family unity.
2:07:51 PM
MR. ROSS replied he saw some that he believes were working to do
that.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if he thinks those workers are frightening.
MR. ROSS said yes; they're frightening to parents.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if OCS workers frighten him.
MR. ROSS replied, "I'm a cancer survivor; I'm not frightened
very easily anymore."
2:08:21 PM
CHAIR FRENCH said he's bringing this up because of a column he
once wrote in a newspaper titled "Family Unit Suffers from
Bureaucratic Maze." He continued:
In that column you stated the belief that OCS workers
try to destroy family unity and that DFYS (division of
family and youth services) workers are frightening.
The tone you took in that article was highly
dismissive of the essential public safety nature of
the work that these folks perform. And I have to say
further that your answers today about quotas concern
me as well - as if these workers were traffic cops
trying to earn their monthly paycheck on the backs of
families in Anchorage. When I have personally as a DA
reviewed the reports of harm that come in from DFYS
and seen dozens and dozens and dozens of cases on a
weekly basis of children that don't get washed at
home, that have to stay up with their drug-abusing
parents, that come to school with blood matted in
their hair. And my view is that these workers are
extremely essential and do a great job under difficult
circumstances. And I can't tell if you share that view
or not and I suspect you don't.
2:09:46 PM
MR. ROSS responded:
They have a difficult job; they're necessary; some of
them aren't as good as I'd like to see them be. I
represent the parents; you represent the cases that
have been investigated when you were in the DAs
office. You got the cream on the top shall we say of
such cases. I got Joe Average Schmuck and his wife who
found themselves suddenly confronted when they're good
parents. So we have different viewpoints of probably
the same problem. That doesn't mean you're wrong, that
doesn't mean I'm wrong, but it means that we're
looking at the elephant from different ends."
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI commented that he too was concerned when he
read that article. He added:
The concern now is that you're going to be the head
attorney for the state and you did say that the Alaska
Division of Family and Youth Services is a frightening
group and that they are aided in their endeavors by
state assistant attorneys general. The question is now
that you as the head attorney in the state who are
overseeing the work of the assistant attorneys
general, Do you intend to continue the practice that
we have in the state now to send attorneys general in
to protect children?
2:11:22 PM
MR. ROSS said that article was written about 18 years ago and he
would hope that the system has improved since then. "I know that
I haven't had too many cases of parents recently that have had
problems so presumably the system's improved. But yes, I will
send in assistant attorneys general to protect kids."
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if his opinion has changed about DFYS
being a frightening group.
MR. ROSS replied, "They were a frightening group, not to me but
to parents in the way they were acting in those days." He can
cite other attorneys who have had similar cases even recently.
"They say the same thing, that some of those people are
frightening," he said.
2:12:35 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if his opinion that DFYS workers are
frightening has changed in the last 18 years.
MR. ROSS replied, "I think there are some people in that group
that probably shouldn't be there."
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if as attorney general he has plans
to take action on that.
MR. ROSS replied that isn't the attorney general's job. He
continued:
The attorney general's job is to represent everybody
and protect the kids of the state of Alaska. I intend
to do that, but I also think we have a duty to protect
families. And I'm going to do my best to see what we
can do to protect families - the families that really
need protection, not the families that you're talking
about where kids are being abused. I want to make sure
that my attorneys look at cases carefully and that
they're convinced that there has been abuse and not
just somebody that's offended a social worker.
2:13:35 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE said she doesn't have concern about his
confidence to publicly express his opinions 18 years ago, but
she would like to hear how he intends to tackle the issues that
are facing Alaska in 2009. She asked what style he intends to
take on the issues of abuse and neglect and rape of minors.
2:16:02 PM
MR. ROSS related that he was in private practice when he wrote
those articles and it was a method of getting his name out. "I
wrote what I believed in and tilted at the windmills that I
thought needed tilting at the time." He has different clients
now. "An attorney has to be able to ascertain who his clients
are and how they deserve the best representation possible. Now I
would represent the people of the state of Alaska."
MR. ROSS pointed out that his knowledge is broad from the
defense standpoint and he has a fairly broad knowledge from the
family court standpoint. He said he doesn't have all the answers
because he's been on the job just eight days. He said, "I was
the top man of the bottom third of my law school class and I
made a success because I worked harder than other people. … I
prepared my cases harder than other people and … probably 95
percent of my cases settle before I go to court. Only 5 percent
go to trial, but of those 5 percent that go to trial I probably
won 80 to 90 percent. … I'm not telling you I've got the
solutions; I'm telling you I'm willing to work to get them and
learn from you guys what your thoughts are and listen and I
don't think you can ask more than that."
2:19:42 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE said this is her third confirmation hearing for
an attorney general for the state and she's found that what's
more important than the right answer is to have the right
philosophy. She suggested that he approach the job with the
recognition that he may have said and believed in things that
were right at the time, but now may have changed.
MR. ROSS acknowledged that things change.
2:20:52 PM
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked how he sees his role as attorney
general in terms of interacting with the commissioners who deal
with alcohol problems and child abuse problems.
MR. ROSS said once he learns his job he'd like to meet with and
get input from judges, public defenders and peace officers from
the various areas across the state. "There's a lot to learn and
maybe we can come up with some better solutions."
2:22:40 PM
SENATOR THERRIAULT stated the opinion that the toughest section
of statute that legislators deal with is family law because of
the many different family situations. Over the years the
Legislature has worked to more clearly delineate parental and
individual children's rights so it's not surprising that
complaints about OCS have dropped off. "We have changed the
rules there by modifying the law."
MR. ROSS suggested that legislators add a provision that says
that a parent who successfully litigates against false
allegations can be awarded attorney's fees. That would be
another check against the [former] DFYS. In the past people
couldn't afford to litigate the issue because the full power of
the state was against them and they wouldn't get attorney's fees
back. He cited a case he handled that cost the parents between
$30,000 and $40,000 and the kids remained in the home as a
result of the hearing. The parents got none of that money back
and it could have gone to the kids, he said.
2:25:13 PM
SENATOR THERRIAULT noted that Representative Hawker wrote that
he found Mr. Ross to be absolutely and completely dedicated to
the constitution and rule of law. He asked Mr. Ross if he would
have a problem applying the laws that the Legislature writes if
he had a different opinion.
MR. ROSS replied his job is to administer the law whether he
agrees with it or not. "You don't have as much freedom in this
job as you did in private practice and I recognize that." That's
fine, he said.
2:26:16 PM
CHAIR FRENCH asked if he was ever sued for malpractice when he
was in private practice.
MR. ROSS replied he was sued twice. The first time was after he
got the largest settlement in the history of the U.S. for a
wrongful termination of employment case. Ultimately it was
dismissed and the attorney that brought the case was sanctioned
under Rule 11 for $25,000. He still doesn't understand why that
client sued him. The second case he settled for $500.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if he's ever been sanctioned by a court, had
an order to show cause issued by a judge, or been publicly
reprimanded by the bar.
MR. ROSS said no.
2:29:41 PM
CHAIR FRENCH asked what his chief focus will be with respect to
resource development since the governor emphasized that when she
announced his appointment to the position of attorney general.
MR. ROSS replied this state has wonderful resources that need to
be used wisely.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if he adheres to the philosophy of former
Governor Wally Hickel that this is an owner state - that the
resources are owned in common.
MR. ROSS said yes.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if he has any litigation planned with respect
to carrying out the wishes of the legislature or the governor on
resource development.
MR. ROSS answered no. He plans to learn about the litigation the
state is already involved in and if he learns about problems he
will submit legislation to correct the problems. He doesn't
intend to look for things to litigate; from what he's seen so
far there's plenty to keep the state's 300 attorneys busy.
2:32:14 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI observed that the state has a number of
lawsuits pertaining to oil spills and environmental protection
and noted that he had written an article titled "We Should Quit
Crying over the Oil Spill." He asked Mr. Ross if he believes
that it is appropriate for the state to pursue legal action to
make the state whole if it finds that a company is acting
negligently and has caused damage to the environment.
MR. ROSS replied, "The first day on the job we filed a $1
billion lawsuit against British Petroleum for the failure to
properly protect against corrosion in the pipe." As attorney
general my job is to protect the people of the state of Alaska
and when you do that you also protect the state's resources. My
job is to go after people who break the law and pollute the
environment and I'm happy to do it. Noting that he is also on
the committee that has to do with the Exxon Valdez oil spill, he
said he won't have a problem with that either because he is now
wearing a different hat.
2:34:56 PM
CHAIR FRENCH said when you campaigned for governor you spoke
about too many regulations tying up resource development in the
state, and the BP spill example is a perfect illustration of
what you get in the face of inadequate regulation and oversight.
MR. ROSS responded the regulations were adequate; the
enforcement was lacking. BP was supposed to enforce the
regulations and didn't do it, but the state shouldn't rely on
the people who are supposed to abide by the laws to enforce
them. "We need to have more of a watchdog role I do believe."
CHAIR FRENCH said I heard you say that the state should have
strict enforcement of its laws and regulations.
MR. ROSS said yes.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if he believes that the same should apply to
people who may not have broken the law in the past.
MR. ROSS replied you could sit them down with their attorney and
let them know what they did wrong and why there is such a law.
After that you could let them walk. He cited a personal
experience and said police officer discretion is the best way to
enforce the law. Prosecutors also should use that sort of
discretion. Lots of times people don't intend to violate the
law, but they end up doing just that. Fish and game cases are a
prime example where a warden can issue a warning and thereby
increase the likelihood that someone will in the future report a
case of serious wrongdoing. Citizens need to cooperate and you
won't have that if people are alienated when they shouldn't be.
2:39:05 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said he believes everyone would agree with
Mr. Ross's statement supporting strict adherence to the law. The
problem is that for years the oil companies have fought
regulations on the transit lines at the state and federal level.
As a result we really didn't have laws or regulations governing
a lot of the transit lines, he pointed out. He asked Mr. Ross if
he would support stricter regulations to make sure that the
environment is safe. "Even where there have been no prior
offenses, the risk is so huge to our economy and to our state if
there is a breach."
MR. ROSS returned it's not the attorney general's job to enact
regulations; the attorney general's job is to enforce the
regulations. It's the job of the legislature to decide what
regulations need to be enacted. He said he doesn't know if
additional regulations are needed, but he would caution against
regulating a company out of business.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said he would tend to agree but in a press
release the governor said you, as attorney general, would work
with her on issues related to development of Alaska's rich
natural resources. I've never thought of the attorney general as
being someone who would be involved in the development of
natural resources, he said, but the governor put you in that
situation and I'd like to hear whether you agree that that is
your job.
MR. ROSS stated his belief that the attorney general should
challenge federal regulations that prevent the state from
developing its natural resources. He continued:
I'd like to have a role in that. … We were promised in
the statehood compact that we would get a certain
percentage of the resources that we developed in the
state and then suddenly the federal government seems
to be closing the door and preventing us from reaching
those resources. And I would like to see us get
involved in challenging some of those. That doesn't
mean that we develop the resources willy-nilly and
without the proper regard for the environment. So I
think that's what she had in mind. That we need to
make sure that we have the freedom to develop our
resources and that we don't have people Outside
telling us how we should do it. The management of fish
and wildlife is a good example where we have people
Outside who don't like us shooting wolves from the
air. And we believe that we should cut down the
predators so that we can build up our moose and
caribou populations. And I think that's one of the
resources that she was referring to also.
2:42:44 PM
CHAIR FRENCH welcomed Senator Huggins to the hearing.
Turning to the issues of Native rights, subsistence rights, and
ANILCA (Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act),
Senator French asked Mr. Ross if he thinks there are Indian
tribes in the state of Alaska.
MR. ROSS said of course there are tribes.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if he recognizes the supremacy of federal law
with respect to ANILCA - Title 8.
MR. ROSS replied, "Of course I do."
CHAIR FRENCH asked if he recognizes that the challenges to the
constitutionality of Title 8 have been exhausted.
MR. ROSS responded it was a long fought war.
CHAIR FRENCH asked his view of the path towards unifying
management of fish and game under state control now that it's
beyond the state's legal grasp to change the supremacy of
federal law with respect to Title 8.
MR. ROSS expressed the view that the state should have control
over its resources. He continued:
We're the only state that's prevented from having
management of our fish and game resources." It's going
to be up to the Legislature to determine whether or
not it should seek to regain control of its fish and
game resources. "In my six days of doing the dancing
bear act around this capitol building in the last week
or two I've had legislators tell me that they would
like to get management of our fish and game resources
back. If that's your decision that would be my job -
to do what I can to get management back. But my job is
also to support the Constitution of Alaska and that
provides that the resources belong to everyone. So I
would not want to get the resources back by amending
our constitution, for example. I do believe that we
can have a preference for subsistence use and that
subsistence is one of the really neat things about
Alaska that makes Alaska unique. We have people that
are far away from grocery stores or long distances
that they have to transport food that live off the
resources that we have. We should be able to manage
those resources so that those people don't go hungry.
I've said several times when Mom would invite somebody
to the house for dinner, and she'd bake a pie and more
people showed up she didn't say well some people can
have pie and some people can't. She didn't say people
can have littler pieces of pie. She'd make another
pie. When we properly manage our fish and wildlife
resources we're in effect making another pie. We're
seeing to it we have more animals so that people can
exercise their subsistence rights and so sport hunters
can exercise their rights. But in times of shortage,
we can have a preference for subsistence and probably
should.
2:47:08 PM
CHAIR FRENCH returned that the conflict is not about subsistence
in general; it's about whether there will be a rural subsistence
preference. The state's unwillingness to pass a law of general
application on that topic is what led to the federal takeover.
MR. ROSS responded the people of Eklutna have had a subsistence
tradition for thousands of years and now that village is part of
the Municipality of Anchorage. He continued:
Suddenly because of where they live they can't get
subsistence, but you've got Dr. Smith who flies into
one of the villages in his Cessna 206 and because of
where he lives, he can get subsistence when he's maybe
hunting for the first time in his life. It's a bad
system based on where you live and I oppose it. … I
say we should be like the muskox, circling and facing
out towards our enemies and not fighting amongst
ourselves. … We ought not to battle those old battles
over again. We can solve our problems if people of
goodwill will sit down and work them out and remember
that we're here together and we're Alaskans.
2:49:15 PM
CHAIR FRENCH said that's true, but it's worth pointing out that
when you ran for governor you talked about hiring junkyard dog
attorneys general to regain control of the federal land. There
is a great philosophical problem in reconciling the differences
between the federal and state views of subsistence. If your goal
is to regain state control of those federal lands, there are two
options given the supremacy clause. You either change federal
law or you comply with it.
MR. ROSS responded that's why we have court systems. He
continued:
When the people of Alaska approved the constitution,
the constitution said the … resources of Alaska belong
to everyone. Congress approved that constitution. In
effect it said you're going to be a state; we
recognize the validity of your constitution. Then
Congress came along and enacted a law that said unless
you change your constitution we're going to take over
management of your fish and game. Alaskans stood up
for Alaska, in my opinion, and said we're not going to
change our constitution. So the feds took over
management of fish and game. I think an argument could
be made that they breached the statehood compact. And
I think Alaskans ought to say, why are we treated
differently than other states? Aren't we entitled to
manage our own fish and game resources on federal
lands? So, I think federal law's bad and should be
challenged. But, as attorney general that's not my
job. You guys decide it should be challenged I'll put
on my armor and go forth to battle for you. If the
governor decides it I'll do the same, but the hat that
I'll be wearing I can't just go picking battles
because of my personal philosophy. It's not my job.
CHAIR FRENCH recognized that Senator Menard had joined the
hearing.
2:52:30 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE commented that this conversation dovetails with
a broader conversation that she thinks the state will be facing
with the change in administration at the federal level.
Indications are that there will be a dramatic shift in the
Department of Interior and the Bureau of Indian Affairs with
respect to Alaska. There is a question about whether the Indian
country ruling that the U.S. Supreme Court overturned will
somehow be revisited and then there's the Katy John case and the
issue of navigable waters. It wasn't taken to the U.S. Supreme
Court because former Governor Knowles opted not to do that, but
it sits out there as an undefined area, she said. "So I see
sovereignty in parts of Alaska as a huge part, not only of our
present situation but our future, and it dovetails into Senator
French's questions." She asked Mr. Ross his game plan for
helping Alaskans to navigate this difficult, likely emotional
and potentially stagnating chapter of history with respect to
state sovereignty, sovereignty of tribes in Alaska and the
relationship the state has with the federal government.
2:54:31 PM
MR. ROSS said it's a good question that's without an answer for
a guy who's been on the job just six days. He said he recently
heard that closing ANWR (Arctic National Wildlife Refuge)
permanently and cutting off development in the Beauford Sea is
being considered by Congress and he may have a different view of
Alaska than some others but he's proud of this state. Alaskans
came here for the freedoms the state has and to get away from
big government as much as possible. Yet there are people who are
5,000 miles away who are telling us what to do with our
resources. He continued:
We've been entrusted with those resources and we
should have the right to determine what should be done
with our resources ourselves. So when laws like that
come down - people elected you to protect them and I
would probably welcome direction from you to resist
that outside interference. But it isn't my job to
decide to do that. That's your job and it's the
governor's. … I'm just the general … that carries out
the campaigns. I don't decide to go to war. That's the
administration's job. My job's to win the war after
you guys decide to go to war.
2:56:35 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE said she has a very strong belief in letting the
governor select her cabinet. "Barring any major incompetencies
that rise up to even a constitutional level I think our job is
to hear you out." You'll probably go forward and be the attorney
general for this state so the tone of my questioning is food for
thought to formulate how you think about things. She suggested
that going to war might well divide people further and leave the
state under greater federal control than even today. She doesn't
disagree that legislators are the policy makers, but the
attorney general has tools to navigate the law with respect to
sovereignty, management of lands and all the kinds of things
that will come forward. Again she said, "It's just more food for
thought."
MR. ROSS responded that one job of the attorney general is to
give advice the legislature and he thinks conversations should
take place as often as possible. He said this is another subject
but he believes that the way the subpoenas were handled was the
result of people not communicating enough.
2:59:43 PM
SENATOR OLSON acknowledged the differing points of view and
agendas and said the problem he sees relates to Mr. Ross making
comments about junkyard dogs as he did in the 1990 governor
race. People get very concerned about those kinds of words
because they polarize the "haves" and the "have nots."
SENATOR OLSON noted that Mr. Ross talked about issues related to
subsistence and rural preference and how people who didn't have
financial resources were forced to travel 5,000 miles to try to
get something done on the federal level to preempt state law.
The problem I see with your confirmation and your sitting in the
position as the general is that you may not be the one declaring
war, but you're the one that's going to have all the casualties
under your command. Senator Olson said my concern is that those
casualties may indeed be those people in rural Alaska that I
represent. I've had torrents of emails and communications
stating opposition to your appointment because of the statements
you've made over the years that have been so polarizing. What do
I say to the people out there that I represent who had to go to
Washington D.C. to get some type of arrangement so that they
could continue to do what they've done for years? Senator Olson
asked.
3:02:43 PM
MR. ROSS responded:
You don't go to Washington D.C. anymore; Washington
D.C. is not friends with Alaska. … A general's job is
not to cause casualties with his own people; a
general's job is to win the war against the enemy.
Alaskans should be working together. … I've felt that
the subsistence issue was very divisive. It could have
been handled a long time ago without being divisive.
The problem with the subsistence is that some people
felt that they should have more rights than other
people instead of sitting down and working out to make
sure that subsistence was protected. You can't have
those who have and those who have not and not develop
enemies.
SENATOR OLSON asked Mr. Ross to repeat his last statement about
enemies.
MR. ROSS said:
If you push for haves versus have nots - if you say
I'm better than you are. I should have a bigger car
than you. I'm not going to make friends with you doing
that. But if we sit down and say, how can we arrange
our transportation, we can reach an agreement. We
never did that. Instead some people went off to
Washington to try and get rights over others, which
was violative of our constitution. It wasn't the way
to handle it in my opinion. And now we got the federal
government sticking its nose in the State of Alaska
and we need to realize that we've invited a giant to
our state and that we need to protect all of us from
the giant.
Have you seen the old western movies where they get a
new marshal into town and he turns out to be far worse
than they had before? That's what we did okay? We can
work out our problems. If we sit down and talk about
what's needed, we can work those out. As I told you at
the very beginning, 95 percent of my cases were
settled because even though there's a lot of emotion
in divorce cases … we were able to calm them down and
get it worked out. But you don't invite the giant into
your house - or the bear if you want to say that. You
don't invite the bear into your house and then not
expect to get eaten up. We're being eaten up and we
need to get together.
SENATOR OLSON said he respectfully disagrees with the parallel
that the state has invited the bear into the room. That so-
called bear is the U.S. government and it had to step in because
state law was starting to run over the rank and file little guy
that's trying to make a living in rural Alaska, he said. He
cautioned against calling people junkyard dogs to try to rectify
a situation.
3:06:33 PM
MR. ROSS clarified that he said he was going to hire junkyard
dogs to get the feds off the state's back. He continued:
That would be my intention had I been elected governor
because I believe that Alaskans should be working
together and that you don't just represent some people
out there and that's all the people you represent.
You're a Senator, you represent all Alaskans and you
should be working with other Alaskans to develop
solutions rather than going out and crying to mom out
somewhere else and saying, 'Mom you got to help me.'
And that's not necessarily directed at you, but we
should have worked together to solve those problems
rather than get somebody else out to solve those
problems. That was a mistake we made years ago and I'm
saying we need to sit down and work together to
develop solutions so that you people out there are
happy with what's going on here and don't have to look
to the federal government. They should be looking to
other Alaskans to solve their problems.
3:07:39 PM
CHAIR FRENCH said it's fair to say that the Native community has
expressed strong opposition to your appointment.
MR. ROSS responded it's from people who don't know him.
CHAIR FRENCH highlighted that during the course of a fundraiser
when Mr. Ross ran for governor, rock and roll star Ted Nugent
was quoted in the 8/26/02 issue of the Anchorage Daily News on
the topic of subsistence saying, "Can an Alaska Native look at
me with a straight face and say he needs 20 caribou to feed dogs
on a chain all day? I'd like to smash that SOB in the temple."
Did you apologize or consider apologizing for the comment that
Mr. Nugent made, he asked.
MR. ROSS responded I didn't make that comment. What Ted Nugent
said was outrageous and it didn't get any votes. "My wife and I
thought it was the improper thing to say, nobody ever asked me
about it until … 7 years after. … Had somebody asked me about it
at that time, I would have apologized then and said he doesn't
speak for me."
MR. ROSS urged Senator Olson to talk to Alaska Natives that they
know in common to see if he's either anti-Native or anti-
subsistence. "They'll tell you the truth," he added.
3:11:39 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said he has a binder full of things Mr.
Ross has said and written over the years. Some of those
statements don't help the state move forward because they are so
extremely divisive. He provided the following examples:
th
· "The idea of Native sovereignty is a 19 century
principle."
· A letter to the bar association called a particular group
of people immoral and degenerate.
· A former legislator said Mr. Ross thrives on confrontation.
"He tries to convince me that he is absolutely right and I
am absolutely wrong and I don't buy that", former
Representative Abood said.
· A friend once said, "He can dig in and be very belligerent
and say 'There's my way and no way.'" Mr. Ross's response
was "That hits the nail on the head."
MR. ROSS said, "You want a woose for a private attorney or do
you want somebody who's going to fight for you. That's what I
did."
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said he wants an attorney general who will
represent all Alaskans, who will be fair to all sides, and who
will see that the state is not further divided.
MR. ROSS stated the following in his closing statement:
I told you at the beginning that I want to represent
all Alaskans - that I'll have a different hat on. An
attorney makes comments on behalf of his clients, he
is an advocate for his clients and an attorney may
advocate that a guy be found not guilty for murder.
That doesn't mean the attorney supports murder. An
attorney may advocate that somebody gets a divorce;
that doesn't mean an attorney believes in divorce. And
if I have the job of advocate for the State of Alaska,
I'm going to advocate for all the people of the state
of Alaska. When I had a different job, I performed
that job with integrity. I wrote an article that you
should look up called "High Hopes Waits for the Phone
Call" and it was about a guy who wanted to be Supreme
Court justice and so he took no positions on anything.
He sat there, he read the law, and he waited for a
phone call from the President because he hasn't
alienated anybody. He didn't eat meat in a restaurant
because he might get the vegetarians upset. He didn't
wear leather shoes because he might get the PETA
people upset. He didn't join the Kiwanis because he
might get the Rotarians upset. He did absolutely
nothing for 20 years because he knew the President was
going to call him and he didn't want to have any
controversy.
I've lived my [professional] life for 42 years and
I've had a great time doing it. And I've represented
all kinds of groups and I've advocated for them and
nobody ever accused me of tippy toeing around the
issues. Now I'm asking for the job of advocating for
Alaska - for the state that I love almost as much as I
love my wife. I want to be the advocate for Alaska and
I want to work with people that we can face outward
and fight the people that don't like what we're doing
in Alaska. I don't want to get into a battle between
Alaskans again. We did that years ago. We did that and
his people [indicating Senator Olson] felt they had to
go to Washington to get help. They should have never
had to go to Washington to get help. We should have
solved those problems working among ourselves. We can
do it. I'm a good negotiator and I listen to people
and I'll work to try and solve the problems here so
that people don't have to go to Washington. But I'm
going to be the advocate for all the state. If you
want someone who's never taken an opinion on anything,
well then you can get a nice quiet attorney general
who will do exactly nothing. That ain't me.
3:17:08 PM
CHAIR FRENCH thanked Mr. Ross and recessed the hearing until
5:30 pm.
5:36:12 PM
CHAIR FRENCH reconvened the Senate Judiciary Standing Committee
meeting at 5:36 pm and announced his intention is to take public
testimony for 90 minutes on the governor's appointment of Wayne
Anthony Ross as attorney general. Any written testimony that is
submitted with the request that it be made part of the permanent
record will be honored. He asked testifiers to limit their
remarks to three minutes.
BRADLEY J. FLUETSCH, Grand President, Alaska Native Brotherhood
(ANB) and Alaska Native Sisterhood (ANS) Grand Camp and Glacier
Valley ANB and ANS Camp 70, stated that Mr. Ross has a proven
record of not honoring federal Indian law or recognizing Alaska
Native's special relationship with the federal government.
Furthermore, he does not understand the importance of
subsistence to Alaska Natives. During the 2002 governor race he
was interviewed by "Fish Alaska" and said that as governor he
intended to challenge provisions of ANILCA mandating federal
management of Alaska's resources through the congressional
delegation and the courts. In this morning's Juneau Empire he
states that he does not believe in tribal sovereignty. "This man
just wants to wage war on Alaska Natives," Mr. Fluetsch
asserted. That doesn't move the state forward and it's
expensive. We need to work cooperatively which means the state
needs to work with the tribes and the Native corporations. "We
do not need a litigious attorney general fighting 150 years of
federal Indian law."
5:40:22 PM
SENATOR THERRIAULT joined the committee.
ROBERT LOESCHER said he is representing the Central Council of
Tlingit Haida Indian Tribes of Alaska, which is a federally
recognized tribe with 26,000 enrolled members, and the Alaska
Native Brotherhood Camp 2, which is located in Juneau and is
affiliated with the ANB Grand Camp. He recognized and honored
Mr. Fluetsch as Grand President. He stated that ANB has fought
for civil rights for all Alaskans for many years. Since
statehood the Native community has contributed a great deal to
the way of life and prosperity of the state. Alaska Natives
cooperated in settling the Alaska Native claims that held up
rights of way permits for the Trans Alaska Pipeline. That
brought prosperity to the state. Since that time Natives have
contributed to the economy of the state through commerce and
economic development. Indian people and tribal members have
facilitated millions if not billions of federal transfer funds
for social, economic, and welfare programs for Alaska Natives.
The tribes have developed clinics, job-training centers, and
social programs to offset costs to the state's operating budget.
We're proud of that, Mr. Loescher said.
MR. LOESCHER said Mr. Ross's public record is well known. He has
opposed the recognition of tribes, he has opposed ANCSA and he
has not been helpful to the civil rights of Alaska Natives. He
urged the committee to seriously consider not endorsing Mr. Ross
as attorney general. "We really would like to foster a
constructive engagement between the Alaska Native community and
the state and we do not believe that the appointment of Wayne
Anthony Ross would facilitate that," Mr. Loescher stated.
5:44:37 PM
MARSHA BUCK, representing Alaskans Together for Equality
Incorporated, said this is a new organization formed to advance
the civil equality of all Alaskans with a particular focus on
equality for gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and intersex
citizens. She said her testimony is in opposition to the
appointment of Wayne Anthony Ross as attorney general. His
record of negative comments about gay, lesbian, bisexual, and
transgender Alaskans appear to make him biased against these
citizens so it's difficult to imagine how he could fairly uphold
their constitutional rights. "We need an attorney general who
represents all Alaskans equally - including gay, lesbian,
bisexual, and transgender Alaskans. I would therefore ask you to
oppose Mr. Ross's nomination," Ms. Buck stated.
NELSON ANGAPOK, SR., Anchorage, said the Alaska Federation of
Natives is strongly opposed to the confirmation of Mr. Ross as
attorney general. He has been vocal in his opposition to rural
preference and he does not support Natives. Fishing and
gathering have been the core of Alaska Native life for thousands
of years. If subsistence use can't be protected against
competition from other uses, most residents of rural Alaska will
gradually be forced to abandon their homes and villages to move
to urban areas. When Mr. Ross ran for governor he stated his
intention to hire a band of junkyard assistant attorneys general
to challenge ANILCA. Furthermore, he has opposed the existence
of tribal governments. Mr. Angapok reiterated that AFN is
opposed to the confirmation of Mr. Ross as attorney general for
Alaska. "Mr. Ross holds striking beliefs in opposition to two
core issues that affect the very survival of our Native
communities and people - subsistence and tribal sovereignty.
This raises a major concern about his ability to represent
Alaska Natives on an equal footing as any other citizens of the
state of Alaska," Mr. Angapok stated.
5:48:19 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE joined the committee.
FRED TRABER said he is a resident of Anchorage and is
representing himself, his spouse, and others who comprise the
gay community of Alaska. He urged the committee to ask Mr. Ross
about his regard for and attitude toward the gay, lesbian,
bisexual, and transgender citizens of Alaska. "We need an
attorney general willing to meet the needs of all Alaskans not
just a few."
JAKE JACOBSON, representing himself from Kodiak, said he has
known Mr. Ross for years. He has seen him in times of stress and
disappointment and he is always consistent. He doesn't succumb
to knee jerk temptations and is devoted to the law. The
foundation of the U.S. is based on individual rights rather than
group or mob rights and Mr. Ross knows this well. It takes
courage to do the right thing when it's unpopular, but Mr. Ross
doesn't dodge his responsibility to do the right thing. His
effort to secure equal subsistence rights for all Alaskans is
consistent with the Alaska and U.S. Constitutions and is un-
preferentially inclusive. His tireless defense of the Second
Amendment is unpopular with some, but is part of the Bill of
Rights. He knows that the Alaska and U.S. Constitutions are
owner manuals that should be followed by all citizens as
owner/operators. Without adherence to these fundamental rights
society would be in chaos. When Mr. Ross lost the primary
election for governor, he commented that the voters know he is a
better lawyer than a politician. "We need this lawyer not a
politician as attorney general. It is my hope that Wayne Anthony
Ross be confirmed unanimously by the Alaska Legislature. I know
he will serve all Alaskans well if given the opportunity," Mr.
Jacobson stated.
5:53:22 PM
VICTOR VITALIE, representing himself from Anchorage, said his
opposition to Mr. Ross is not based on what he believes; his
opposition is based on the fact that Mr. Ross is rigid and a
true believer irrespective of the position he is taking. He
doesn't give credence to contrary arguments in either
negotiations or arguments. Mr. Vitalie said he's tried a number
of cases against Mr. Ross and he's found Mr. Ross to be
bombastic and ill prepared in court. "In negotiations,
particularly if you're multi-party, one of the issues the
attorneys have to deal with is 'What do we do so we don't set
Wayne Ross off.'" The comment he made about setting junkyard
dogs on an issue illustrates that behavior. That sort of comment
doesn't take into account how his advocacy will impact the
parties on the other side of the argument, but a public lawyer
must be very cognizant of the fact that the other side has to be
taken seriously and treated respectfully. "He doesn't do that.
He takes up a lot of air in the room when he's trying to
negotiate or litigate."
MR. VITALIE said he understands that Mr. Ross submitted his name
to be a judge some time ago and he received average numbers on
the bar poll. I believe that an attorney general should be
viewed as excellent by his or her colleagues rather than
average, Mr. Vitalie said. Mr. Ross will be extraordinarily
divisive regardless of the issue and he does not like to listen
to subordinates. He isn't going to listen to department heads
and professional attorneys who have been in the AGs office for
10 to 20 years if he doesn't like the answers they're giving
him. "He's going to get the state in trouble at some point if
he's attorney general," Mr. Vitalie warned.
5:56:01 PM
PAMELA SAMASH, representing herself from Nenana, expressed
support for Wayne Ross as attorney general and Governor Palin's
decision to appoint him. The primary reason is because she likes
his morals. "I believe the same way he believes and I think the
same way that he thinks." When she hears about people who want
to be self sufficient and want to hunt and fish, she realizes
that he's the man. "He is for guns and he is for gun rights and
this is why I really support him because I think that we're in a
day and age in America where we need people like him in as many
places as possible and definitely in the Alaska way of life."
She encouraged the committee to support the confirmation of Mr.
Ross and added that she also supports his views on pro life.
ROBERT FITHIAN, representing himself from Lower Tonsina, said he
has for several administrations served with honor on the
Wrangell-St Elias Subsistence Resource Council and has worked to
help Alaskans help Alaska within the mining, forestry, and
professional guiding industry. He said he supports the
confirmation of Mr. Wayne Ross as attorney general.
TOM LAKOSH, representing himself from Anchorage, said Mr. Ross's
testimony shows he has an inherent conflict of interest that
would preclude his being attorney general. When Mr. Ross was
asked about child molesters, he stated that all his clients were
innocent yet the state is currently prosecuting appeals of his
convicted clients. "I'd like to know if this is Governor Palin's
April Fool's joke," he said.
5:59:42 PM
CHRIS KINNY, representing himself from Anchorage, said he is
testifying in support of Mr. Ross as attorney general.
LYNNETT BERGH, representing herself from North Pole, said she is
testifying in full support of Governor Palin's appointment of
Wayne A. Ross as attorney general for the state of Alaska. She
has researched Mr. Ross's background and qualifications and
finds he will be a tremendous asset. She understands that some
people have opposed Mr. Ross's record but it's her belief that
anyone who has been involved in the legal arena for some years
has undoubtedly made unpopular decisions. "But his decisions
have always been based on the law," she said. He is a champion
of Alaska. "I believe that he is the right man for this position
and that he should be sworn in as our new attorney general," Ms.
Bergh said.
6:01:54 PM
BYRON HALEY, representing himself from Fairbanks, said he
strongly supports Wayne Anthony Ross as attorney general. He
believes that the Chitina Dipnetters Association support Mr.
Ross as well, but it's not official.
PAUL EAGLIN, representing himself from Fairbanks, said he sent
an email in hopes it would be distributed to the committee.
Attached to the email was a letter he sent to the Alaska Bar
Association "Bar Rag" in response to an article that Mr. Ross
published following his unsuccessful application for nomination
to the state supreme court. Mr. Ross's article made a number of
criticisms with respect to his experience as an unsuccessful
applicant. Mr. Ross's article illustrates that he has difficulty
accurately thinking through an issue and clearly articulating
his position. He was speaking with respect to his experience as
an applicant and the comments he made were injudicious. Mr.
Eaglin said he also thinks the comments were inappropriate in
terms of the remarks he directed to the justices of the Alaska
Supreme Court and the successful applicants.
MR. EAGLIN suggested that the committee obtain a copy of Mr.
Ross's article so that his criticism would be in context. He
noted that as an applicant to the Alaska Supreme Court Mr. Ross
didn't score very well. Furthermore he understands that Mr. Ross
has referred to gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transsexuals as
"degenerates" and that's offensive. These people have rights
protected by law.
6:06:00 PM
SHAYLE HUTCHISON, representing herself from Fairbanks, said she
is voicing her strong opposition to Mr. Ross as attorney general
because Alaska needs someone who will represent the interests of
all Alaskans. Mr. Ross's comments in the past have been
dismissive of the problems of violence against women and
children even though Alaska consistently leads the nation in
rates of domestic violence, sexual assault, and child abuse.
Alaska needs an attorney general who can provide leadership in
these areas; Mr. Ross is not that person. Mr. Ross's stance on
gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender rights is also a
concern. She suggested that in the next several years civil
rights will be a primary issue and Alaska will need an attorney
general who can handle this issue with sensitivity and
understanding. Mr. Ross's degrading statements show he will not
be competent in this area.
SCOTT TRAFFORD CALDER, representing himself from Fairbanks, said
he is speaking in favor of Mr. Ross as attorney general. He
listened to some of the questions and answers this afternoon and
on that brief experience he is satisfied that Mr. Ross has good
answers. Senator Olson spoke wisely and had good questions, but
Mr. Ross's answers that Alaskans should work together seemed to
be good. In other questions he demonstrated that he would speak
truth to power and enforce the laws regarding the interests and
rights of all Alaskans. "Apparently he is a very colorful
personality and there is some opposition, but I guess I'm
inclined otherwise," Mr. Calder said.
6:09:02 PM
MIKE PROX, representing himself from North Pole, said he is
speaking in support of Mr. Ross as attorney general. He's worked
with Mr. Ross on issues and some political work and he does have
an understanding of and respect for the law. He is a colorful
personality, which isn't all bad. There isn't any need to
silence opposing views on any issue. It's a question of
understanding and respecting the rule of law. Mr. Ross does
that.
MELVIN GROVE said he is representing himself and the MatSu
Advisory Council, which voted unanimously in support of Mr.
Ross. He's a board member of the MatSu Fish and Game Advisory
Committee, board member of the Alaska Outdoor Access Alliance,
and the Anchorage Motor/Mushers Club and he believes they would
support Mr. Ross's nomination as well.
KAREN LEWIS, representing herself from MatSu, said she supports
Governor Palin's decision. She has known Mr. Ross for years and
has seen him in action as an attorney. "I want him in my corner
if I ever get in trouble. He possesses a moral Godly character
and he won't back down when he's standing up for righteousness.
… I wish that all of the courts and the state and U.S.
legislatures were all filled with people that had that moral
fortitude and Godly characteristic that Mr. Ross possesses. This
would be a great country. He would have been a wonderful
governor and he would be a great supreme court justice and he
will be one heck of an attorney general. … Mr. Ross believes in
equality not special interest groups. And when it comes to gays,
lesbians, transgender, etc. he relies on what the word of God
states not what men think. Again, he will be a wonderful
attorney general," Ms. Lewis said.
6:12:52 PM
PETER M. PROBASCO, representing himself and his family from
MatSu, said he's known Mr. Ross for years and he knows him to be
of the highest integrity. "I think that lawyers of integrity are
one of the most important things this country can have and we
see what happens when they are not of that caliber." He knows
the constitutions of the U.S. and Alaska and he will fulfill his
duty and be an outstanding attorney general.
KAREN LACKEY, representing herself from MatSu, said she has
known Mr. Ross for many years and he is an honorable and ethical
man. He is a highly competent lawyer and she would urge his
confirmation as attorney general.
EARL LACKEY, representing himself from Wasilla, said he's known
Mr. Ross for at least 20 years and he knows that Mr. Ross will
uphold the U.S. and Alaska constitutions to the letter of the
law. "I would support Wayne Ross and do not believe you could
get a better man for the job."
6:14:55 PM
ROSE FOSDICK said she is testifying on behalf of Kawerak Inc., a
private nonprofit consortium whose mission is to promote and
provide programs to improve the social, economic, and cultural
wellbeing of the people within the Bering Straits region. Last
week the Kawerak board met and passed a resolution in opposition
to the confirmation of Wayne Anthony Ross as attorney general
for the State of Alaska. The resolution states the opposing
views that Kawerak Inc and Mr. Ross have on issues such as
subsistence and tribal sovereignty. The last two Whereas
statements and the Resolve are as follows:
· Whereas Governor Palin's candidate for appointment of
attorney general should be an individual who exemplifies
leadership skills that will seek collaboration with all
local governments to resolve vital issues which would lead
to safe economically viable and healthy communities and
· Whereas Wayne Anthony Ross's record and professional stance
on rural subsistence priority and tribal sovereignty
exemplifies an extreme bias, which will further exacerbate
the process to resolve vital issues to our regional
communities.
· Now therefore be it resolved that Kawerak Board of
Directors oppose the confirmation and appointment of Wayne
Anthony Ross to serve as attorney general for the State of
Alaska. Dated April 3, 2009.
6:17:00 PM
NORMAN ANDERSON, representing Bristol Bay Native Association
(BBNA), Dillingham, read a letter from BBNA to Governor Palin in
opposition to the appointment of Mr. Ross as attorney general.
Whatever positive qualities Mr. Ross may have, he is widely
perceived in the Alaska Native community as an extreme and
prominent anti-subsistence anti-Native spokesman and his
appointment is viewed as a slap in the face by many Natives. It
is difficult to see how a cordial relationship can be maintained
if the chief law enforcement officer in the state is an icon of
anti-subsistence and anti-Native sentiment. [The full letter is
part of the permanent file.]
LEO WASSILIE, representing himself from Anchorage, testified in
opposition to the confirmation of Mr. Ross as attorney general.
Constitutional rights will be under attack if he is confirmed,
he warned.
6:20:50 PM
PAGE HODSON, representing herself, said she will relate an
experience she had several years ago. Several years ago after
passage of a law addressing custody issues and protection of
domestic violence victims, she helped organize a co-sponsored
panel discussion at UAA on which Wayne Anthony Ross was a
presenter. Ms. Hodson said she found the views he expressed to
be quite sexist. The implication was that domestic violence was
on the rise because the equal rights movement had emasculated
men. Therefore, they beat their wives. Furthermore, he
insinuated that there wasn't a lot of real domestic violence;
women were simply lying and fabricating claims in order to
position themselves for custody. "I just found those statements
to be extremely sexist and the reaction in the audience and the
room was similar," Ms. Hodson said. She noticed on "Craig's
Daily News" that a couple of other people had commented and had
a similar recollection of the events. She thought she should
pass this along, particularly because of the incidence of
domestic violence and sexual assault in the state. As attorney
general Mr. Ross would have an influence on interpreting the
law. "I just think that that is not someone who is going to
represent half our population, which is women." Ms. Hodson said.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if she recalls the approximate year the
conference took place.
MS. HODSON responded the bill became effective in July 2004 and
the panel discussion took place around domestic violence
awareness month, which is October. The year was either 2004 or
2005. Between 75 and 100 people attended.
CHAIR FRENCH asked her role in the conference.
MS. HODSON replied she founded a grass roots group called Alaska
Moms for Custodial Justice. She asked UAA to do a screening on a
documentary that had come out on those issues and to discuss the
legislation. She helped get things organized and provided the
documentary film.
CHAIR FRENCH asked is she is speaking on behalf of herself or a
group.
MS. HODSON replied she is speaking on her own behalf and is
giving her recollections.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if there was a recording of the
discussion.
MS. HODSON replied she doesn't know. Professor Sharon Irozzy
(ph) had done a study on the issues and she helped to put on the
discussion. She has since taken a position at the University of
Colorado and would be the person to contact.
6:24:00 PM
DEBORAH BURLINSKI, representing herself, stated that she doesn't
support Wayne Anthony Ross for the position of attorney general
because she doesn't believe he supports the constitution. She
related that Mr. Ross represented pro bono individuals who
poured water on some people near Kenai who were exercising free
speech and protesting the war. "I understand that lawyers take
all kind of cases, but when you take the case for free it means
to me that you support the position." Ms. Burlinski further
noted that it's her understanding that Mr. Ross applied for
Alaska judgeships several times and received unacceptable
ratings. "He does represent extreme viewpoints; he does not
represent mainstream Alaska in my opinion and I urge you to vote
no on his appointment," Ms. Burlinski said.
6:25:37 PM
WILLIE ANDERSON, representing PFLAG (Parents, Families and
Friends of Lesbians and Gays) of Juneau, said he is testifying
in opposition to the confirmation of Wayne Anthony Ross as
attorney general. Mr. Ross has made statements about gay,
lesbian, and bisexual people. "I happen to be a parent of a
lesbian daughter; I do not believe Mr. Ross would represent her
legal rights in this state of Alaska if he was attorney
general." The Alaska Supreme Court has ruled that domestic
benefits for same sex couples is legal in this state. Mr. Ross
would be required to support that law yet his statements have
been contrary so how would he support those rights? Mr. Anderson
asked. "Please vote no on Mr. Ross."
JAY STEVEN REESE, representing himself from Juneau, said he is
alarmed at many of the statements Mr. Ross has made. His
demonstrated hatred for anyone other than his own race, sex and
gender reflect an inability to be impartial in judging the law.
"I just wanted to express my opposition to his appointment," Mr.
Reese said.
ALFRED MCKINLEY said he is representing ANB and ANS Camps
throughout Alaska. "We simply oppose Mr. Ross's appointment as
attorney general because of [his] position on subsistence." Mr.
McKinley said he grew up in Alaska and knows discrimination. It
hurts. If Mr. Ross is appointed he will divide the people. That
isn't what we need; we need to work together, he said.
6:33:22 PM
BRIAN JUDY, Alaska Liaison, National Rifle Association (NRA),
Anchorage, said he is speaking on behalf of the thousands of NRA
members in strong support of the confirmation of Wayne Anthony
Ross as attorney general. The right to bear arms and self
defense are fundamental rights and few issues are of greater
importance to Alaskans. Based on Mr. Ross's passion for the
Second Amendment, Alaskans can rest assured that they will have
a consistent defender in the attorney general's office. He has
listened to some of the other testimony - that on domestic
violence in particular - and he finds it impossible to believe
that Mr. Ross would coddle any kind of criminal. He said he has
known Mr. Ross for more than 20 years and he's found him to be a
man of strong character and great integrity. Mr. Ross loves
Alaska and will have its best interest as one of his top
priorities. "On behalf of NRA members [I] urge your support for
the confirmation of Wayne Ross for attorney general," Mr. Judy
said.
6:34:57 PM
Finding no further testimony, Chair French adjourned the Senate
Judiciary Standing Committee at 6:34 pm.
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