Legislature(2005 - 2006)BUTROVICH 205

04/22/2005 08:30 AM JUDICIARY

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                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         April 22, 2005                                                                                         
                           8:44 a.m.                                                                                            
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
Senator Ralph Seekins, Chair                                                                                                    
Senator Charlie Huggins, Vice Chair                                                                                             
Senator Gene Therriault                                                                                                         
Senator Hollis French                                                                                                           
Senator Gretchen Guess                                                                                                          
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 85(JUD)                                                                                                   
"An  Act relating  to  self-administration  and documentation  of                                                               
certain  types  of medication  prescribed  to  a child  attending                                                               
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 88(RLS)                                                                                                   
"An Act  relating to certain  weapons offenses  involving minors;                                                               
relating to  the definition of  'recreation or youth  center' for                                                               
purposes  of  misconduct  involving a  controlled  substance;  to                                                               
aggravating factors in sentencing  for certain offenses committed                                                               
on school grounds, on a  school bus, at a school-sponsored event,                                                               
or in administrative offices of  a school district; to mitigating                                                               
factors   in  sentencing   for   a   defendant's  assistance   to                                                               
authorities to detect, apprehend,  or prosecute other persons who                                                               
committed an offense; and providing for an effective date."                                                                     
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
BILL: HB 85                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE: PRESCRIBED MEDICATION FOR STUDENTS                                                                                 
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) MEYER                                                                                             
01/19/05       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/19/05       (H)       HES, JUD                                                                                               
02/15/05       (H)       HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106                                                                             
02/15/05       (H)       Moved CSHB 85(HES) Out of Committee                                                                    
02/15/05       (H)       MINUTE(HES)                                                                                            
02/18/05       (H)       HES RPT CS(HES) 6DP                                                                                    
02/18/05       (H)       DP: CISSNA, GARDNER, ANDERSON, MCGUIRE,                                                                
                         SEATON, WILSON                                                                                         
02/18/05       (H)       FIN REFERRAL ADDED AFTER JUD                                                                           
03/07/05       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
03/07/05       (H)       Moved CSHB 85(JUD) Out of Committee                                                                    
03/07/05       (H)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
03/09/05       (H)       JUD RPT CS(JUD) 5DP                                                                                    
03/09/05       (H)       DP:   GRUENBERG,   DAHLSTROM,   COGHILL,                                                               
                         GARA, MCGUIRE                                                                                          
03/09/05       (H)       FIN REFERRAL WAIVED                                                                                    
03/15/05       (H)       TRANSMITTED TO (S)                                                                                     
03/15/05       (H)       VERSION: CSHB 85(JUD)                                                                                  
03/16/05       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/16/05       (S)       HES, JUD                                                                                               
04/04/05       (S)       HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
04/04/05       (S)       Moved CSHB 85(JUD) Out of Committee                                                                    
04/04/05       (S)       MINUTE(HES)                                                                                            
04/05/05       (S)       HES RPT 4DP 1NR                                                                                        
04/05/05       (S)       DP: DYSON, GREEN, WILKEN, OLSON                                                                        
04/05/05       (S)       NR: ELTON                                                                                              
04/22/05       (S)       JUD AT 8:30 AM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
BILL: HB 88                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE: CRIM LAW:MINORS, SCHOOLS, DRUGS,SENTENCES                                                                          
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
01/19/05       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/19/05       (H)       JUD, FIN                                                                                               
01/26/05       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
01/26/05       (H)       -- Meeting Canceled --                                                                                 
02/02/05       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
02/02/05       (H)       <Bill Hearing Postponed to Fri. 2/4/05>                                                                
02/04/05       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
02/04/05       (H)       -- Rescheduled from Wed. 2/2/05 --                                                                     
02/07/05       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
02/07/05       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/07/05       (H)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
02/16/05       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
02/16/05       (H)       Moved CSHB 88(JUD) Out of Committee                                                                    
02/16/05       (H)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
02/18/05       (H)       JUD RPT CS(JUD) NT 1DP 6NR                                                                             
02/18/05       (H)       DP: GRUENBERG;                                                                                         
02/18/05       (H)       NR: ANDERSON, KOTT, COGHILL, DAHLSTROM,                                                                
                         GARA, MCGUIRE                                                                                          
03/16/05       (H)       FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
03/16/05       (H)       Bill Postponed To 3/17/05                                                                              
03/17/05       (H)       FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
03/17/05       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/17/05       (H)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
03/21/05       (H)       FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
03/21/05       (H)       Moved CSHB 88(FIN) Out of Committee                                                                    
03/21/05       (H)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
03/22/05       (H)       FIN RPT CS(FIN) NT 8NR                                                                                 
03/22/05       (H)       NR: HAWKER, WEYHRAUCH, JOULE, MOSES,                                                                   
                         HOLM, KELLY, CROFT, STOLTZE                                                                            
03/31/05       (H)       RLS AT 9:00 AM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                          
03/31/05       (H)       Moved CSHB 88(RLS) Out of Committee                                                                    
03/31/05       (H)       MINUTE(RLS)                                                                                            
04/01/05       (H)       RLS RPT CS(RLS) NT 5DP 1NR                                                                             
04/01/05       (H)       DP: HARRIS, COGHILL, MCGUIRE, KOHRING,                                                                 
04/01/05       (H)       NR: BERKOWITZ                                                                                          
04/01/05       (H)       RETURNED TO RLS COMMITTEE                                                                              
04/08/05       (H)       TRANSMITTED TO (S)                                                                                     
04/08/05       (H)       VERSION: CSHB 88(RLS)                                                                                  
04/11/05       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
04/11/05       (S)       JUD, FIN                                                                                               
04/22/05       (S)       JUD AT 8:30 AM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
Representative Kevin Meyer                                                                                                      
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of HB 85                                                                                         
Mr. Mike Pawlowski                                                                                                              
Staff to Representative Meyer                                                                                                   
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on HB 85                                                                                       
Ms. Patricia Senner, RN                                                                                                         
Alaska Nurses Association                                                                                                       
2207 East Tudor Rd. Suite 34                                                                                                    
Anchorage, AK  99507                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 85                                                                            
Ms. Marge Larson                                                                                                                
American Lung Association of Alaska                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 85                                                                            
Ms. Stephanie Birch                                                                                                             
Division of Public Health (DPH)                                                                                                 
Department of Health & Social Services                                                                                          
PO Box 110601                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99801-0601                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 85                                                                            
Ms. Anne Carpeneti                                                                                                              
Department of Law                                                                                                               
PO Box 110300                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99811-0300                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on HB 88                                                                                       
Ms. Patty Ware, Director                                                                                                        
Division of Juvenile Justice                                                                                                    
Department of Health & Social Services                                                                                          
PO Box 110601                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99801-0601                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on HB 88                                                                                       
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
CHAIR  RALPH   SEEKINS  called  the  Senate   Judiciary  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting to  order at 8:43:33 AM.  Present were Senators                                                             
Hollis French, Charlie Huggins, and Chair Ralph Seekins.                                                                        
            HB 85-PRESCRIBED MEDICATION FOR STUDENTS                                                                        
CHAIR RALPH SEEKINS announced HB 85 to be up for consideration.                                                                 
8:43:33 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN  MEYER introduced  HB 85, which  proposes to                                                               
allow children  to carry  their own  inhalers (commonly  known as                                                               
Epipen®).  Not having  their  medication  readily available  puts                                                               
children  at   risk.  Some  children  have   died  because  their                                                               
medication was in the school nurse's  office. HB 85 would allow a                                                               
parent or  guardian to sign  a release of liability  provided the                                                               
healthcare provider  submit a written consent  treatment plan and                                                               
certify that the child is capable  of using the medication. HB 85                                                               
would  qualify  Alaska for  federal  grants  under the  Asthmatic                                                               
Schoolchildren's Treatment Act of  2004. Thirty-seven states have                                                               
passed  similar   legislation.  It  protects  the   schools  from                                                               
liabilities and it would potentially reduce absences.                                                                           
8:46:17 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GRETCHEN GUESS asked Representative  Meyer to explain why                                                               
pharmacist  is   listed  under   the  definition   of  healthcare                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER  explained the  reason is  pharmacists often                                                               
train children to use their inhalers.                                                                                           
8:49:03 AM                                                                                                                    
MR. MIKE  PAWLOWSKI, legislative aide,  reiterated Representative                                                               
Meyer's  assertion  that  pharmacists  are  the  ones  who  teach                                                               
children how  to use their  medication. The Department  of Public                                                               
Health (DPH) supports adding pharmacists.                                                                                       
SENATOR  GUESS  asserted HB  85  allows  pharmacists to  write  a                                                               
treatment plan.                                                                                                                 
CHAIR  SEEKINS said  he  would feel  more  comfortable if  backup                                                               
medicine was available in the school nurse's office.                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE  MEYER advised  under HB  85 children  could still                                                               
leave backup medication with the nurse.                                                                                         
8:52:42 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  MEYER continued  families couldn't  always afford                                                               
two inhalers so he would be hesitant to require a backup.                                                                       
8:54:38 AM                                                                                                                    
Senator Gene Therriault joined the committee.                                                                                   
SENATOR CHARLIE  HUGGINS expressed concern over  children passing                                                               
their inhalers around.                                                                                                          
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER stated the school would not be liable.                                                                     
SENATOR HUGGINS  said he was  worried about children  causing the                                                               
death of other children by sharing inhalers.                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  MEYER countered  inhalers wouldn't  kill a  child                                                               
although they might make someone hyperactive.                                                                                   
8:56:21 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR   HUGGINS  asked   the  definition   of  advanced   nurse                                                               
SENATOR  HOLLIS  FRENCH  advised   all  nurse  practitioners  are                                                               
advanced nurse practitioners.                                                                                                   
CHAIR  SEEKINS   agreed  and  stated  licensed   nurse  would  be                                                               
included. The difference  is a licensed nurse who is  not a nurse                                                               
practitioner would not be able to prescribe medications.                                                                        
SENATOR FRENCH asked Mr. Pawlowski to explain Epipen®.                                                                          
MR.  PAWLOWSKI  advised it  is  short  for epinephrine  injector,                                                               
which is a self-administered injection.                                                                                         
SENATOR  FRENCH asked  whether the  use  of epinephrine  inhalers                                                               
among schoolchildren was common.                                                                                                
8:58:47 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SEEKINS replied yes. He  explained epinephrine is a form of                                                               
8:59:36 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR THERRIAULT  asked the recourse  if a child lets  a friend                                                               
take a dose of the medication.                                                                                                  
MR.  PAWLOWSKI replied  discipline according  to the  school code                                                               
would govern that situation.                                                                                                    
9:01:36 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  THERRIAULT   asked  the  recourse  when   children  pass                                                               
inhalers around to get each other high.                                                                                         
MR. PAWLOWSKI responded  the debate occurred in the  House and it                                                               
was  decided  disciplinary  action   by  the  schools  should  be                                                               
CHAIR SEEKINS mentioned  a person can buy some  types of inhalers                                                               
over  the counter  and  there  is no  present  issue of  children                                                               
buying inhalers.  He asserted it  is serious when someone  has an                                                               
asthma attack.                                                                                                                  
9:03:35 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SEEKINS  said his  only concern  was if  a student  were to                                                               
forget to bring their medication. He  prefers to have a backup in                                                               
place. He  read a  statement from  the Alaska  Nurses Association                                                               
that asked to  require a student to have an  extra inhaler stored                                                               
in the school nurse's office.                                                                                                   
MR.  PAWLOWSKI  commented  that  was included  in  Section  5.  A                                                               
healthcare  provider  could  include   that  stipulation  in  the                                                               
written treatment plan.                                                                                                         
SENATOR  FRENCH said  it  could  be included  in  the list  under                                                               
"doses of medications needed."                                                                                                  
9:05:27 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GUESS advised  it would be beneficial to  keep the option                                                               
so as not  to mandate families to always have  two inhalers. Some                                                               
families may not be able to afford two inhalers.                                                                                
9:07:40 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SEEKINS said it is not  his intent to put someone who can't                                                               
afford the  medication in risk  of violating the law.  However, a                                                               
serious case of asthma needs to be considered.                                                                                  
9:08:55 AM                                                                                                                    
MS. PATRICIA SENNER, nurse practitioner,  testified in support of                                                               
HB  85. She  maintained  school nurses  are  having trouble  with                                                               
managing inhalers. Children often forget  them or they run out of                                                               
medication.  She  suggested  to  stipulate under  Section  5  the                                                               
healthcare provider state what back up is needed.                                                                               
9:10:29 AM                                                                                                                    
MS.  SENNER advised  the committee  albuterol inhalers  run about                                                               
twenty dollars  while steroid inhalers  run close to  one hundred                                                               
dollars. She  expressed concern with children  carrying Epipens®,                                                               
however  school nurses  report  they have  not  had trouble  with                                                               
abuse, although there are instances  of sharing. The side effects                                                               
of albuterol are  minimal unless the person suffers  from a heart                                                               
condition.  The  Anchorage  school   districts  do  have  Epipen®                                                               
9:12:08 AM                                                                                                                    
MS. SENNER admitted  the Alaska Nurses Association  has a problem                                                               
with  the definition  of healthcare  provider.  The problem  with                                                               
adding pharmacists is they do  not have personal knowledge of the                                                               
child. She  suggested restricting  the description  of healthcare                                                               
provider  to  those people  who  legally  have the  authority  to                                                               
diagnose and treat.                                                                                                             
9:13:54 AM                                                                                                                    
MS. SENNER suggested leaving out licensed nurse and pharmacists.                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  asked whether all  inhalers have the  same active                                                               
MS. SENNER  replied the  most common  are rescue  inhalers, which                                                               
contain albuterol. There are a variety of others.                                                                               
SENATOR  FRENCH  asked which  kind  would  work in  an  emergency                                                               
MS. SENNER stated albuterol.                                                                                                    
SENATOR  FRENCH  asked  the reason  children  bring  inhalers  to                                                               
MS. SENNER informed  albuterol is often taken four  times per day                                                               
and most other inhalers are twice a day medications.                                                                            
9:15:59 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  FRENCH asked  what kind  of emergency  inhaler a  school                                                               
would select.                                                                                                                   
MS. SENNER affirmed it would be albuterol.                                                                                      
SENATOR  FRENCH  asked  the  danger  from  using  someone  else's                                                               
MS.  SENNER said  the main  thing would  be a  contagious disease                                                               
through the transfer of germs.                                                                                                  
SENATOR FRENCH  asked whether any  children have died  because of                                                               
asthma attacks.                                                                                                                 
MS. SENNER replied she is not aware of any.                                                                                     
9:17:33 AM                                                                                                                    
MS. STEPHANIE  BIRCH, chief  of the  women and  children's health                                                               
section, Division of Public Health  (DPH), offered support for HB                                                               
85 and also offered to answer questions.                                                                                        
MS. MARGE  LARSEN, American Lung Association  of Alaska testified                                                               
in  support.  She reminded  the  committee  not every  school  in                                                               
Alaska has  a school  nurse. The  intent of HB  85 is  for school                                                               
children have  access to  their medication.  Most people  who die                                                               
from asthma are  mild asthmatics who do not  manage their asthma.                                                               
Rescue  medication is  a necessary  and critical  part of  asthma                                                               
9:20:12 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GUESS  asked the  procedure when a  school has  no school                                                               
MS.  LARSON  advised  the  medications   are  locked  up  in  the                                                               
principal's office.                                                                                                             
The  LIO connection  was lost  and so  Chair Seekins  announced a                                                               
brief recess at 9:22:08 AM.                                                                                                   
Chair Seekins reconvened the meeting at 9:42:27 AM.                                                                           
CHAIR SEEKINS proposed Amendment 1.                                                                                             
     Page 2, line 19 after the word "permitted to" insert                                                                       
     "personally" and following the word "nurse" insert "or                                                                     
     other school official".                                                                                                    
Hearing no objections the motion carried.                                                                                       
9:44:15 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SEEKINS proposed Amendment 2.                                                                                             
     Page 2, line 25 state "in this section, healthcare provider                                                                
     means a person with prescriptive authority in this state."                                                                 
SENATOR GUESS objected  for the purpose of  discussion. She asked                                                               
whether a village health aide would fall under that definition.                                                                 
MS. BIRCH said  a village health aide  has delegated prescriptive                                                               
authority.  She suggested  adding  wording on  line  26 to  state                                                               
"within their  state regulations." This  would allow for  them to                                                               
practice within their occupational licensing regulations.                                                                       
CHAIR SEEKINS said a pharmacist  might be the person best capable                                                               
of showing the child how to use the inhaler device.                                                                             
9:49:48 AM                                                                                                                    
MR.  PAWLOWSKI  suggested  a  pharmacist   might  attempt  to  do                                                               
something outside their authority, such as write a prescription.                                                                
SENATOR  GUESS expressed  concern  the  definition of  healthcare                                                               
provider is being used as a catchall.                                                                                           
9:51:36 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  SEEKINS withdrew  Amendment  2 and  proposed Amendment  3,                                                               
which  defines healthcare  provider.  Hearing  no objection,  the                                                               
motion carried.                                                                                                                 
9:52:32 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  HUGGINS moved  Amendment 4,  which inserts  a permissive                                                               
requirement  that  medication  must  be kept  with  a  designated                                                               
school official. Hearing no objections, the motion carried.                                                                     
9:54:41 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  GUESS inferred  the committee  should clarify  HB 85  in                                                               
regards to public versus private school.                                                                                        
MR. PAWLOWSKI  referred to  a legal memo  included in  the packet                                                               
dated April  6, 2005 from  legislative legal. There is  a concern                                                               
that the  word school is  not specific enough. It  is problematic                                                               
for the state  to require a private school to  do anything. It is                                                               
limited under  AS 14.45.100. The sponsor  suggested inserting the                                                               
word "public" to clarify.                                                                                                       
CHAIR SEEKINS moved Amendment 5, insert the word "public."                                                                      
SENATOR THERRIAULT objected for the purpose of discussion.                                                                      
9:57:47 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GUESS  noted the drafter might  have had a reason  not to                                                               
specify public school.                                                                                                          
MR. PAWLOWSKI  admitted that was  true. The drafter  described it                                                               
as not expressly necessary.                                                                                                     
10:02:30 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR  THERRIAULT  suggested asking  the  drafters  for a  memo                                                               
clarifying the  intent that  HB 85  addresses public  schools and                                                               
not private schools.                                                                                                            
10:05:11 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR SEEKINS  announced he wanted  to be  on record that  it was                                                               
not his intent to force private schools to adhere to HB 85.                                                                     
10:06:38 AM                                                                                                                   
Amendment 5 was adopted.                                                                                                        
CHAIR  SEEKINS announced  the committee  would wait  for a  clean                                                               
version of the amended bill before going further.                                                                               
       HB 88-CRIM LAW: MINORS, SCHOOLS, DRUGS, SENTENCES                                                                    
10:08:26 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR SEEKINS announced HB 88 to be up for consideration.                                                                       
MS. ANNE  CARPENETI, Department  of Law  (DOL) introduced  HB 88,                                                               
which  is designed  to respond  to  the problems  of violence  in                                                               
schools  and  also violence  among  juveniles  relating to  guns.                                                               
Under HB 88 juveniles who are 16  or 17 years old who use guns in                                                               
certain  circumstances would  be  automatically  waived to  adult                                                               
court. Those circumstances are; using  a gun during a drug felony                                                               
crime and drive  by shootings. The court may  mitigate a sentence                                                               
for a  defendant who has  cooperated with the authorities  in the                                                               
prosecution of the case.                                                                                                        
The definition of recreation or  youth center has been changed to                                                               
add  those run  by private  groups. HB  88 makes  the aggravating                                                               
factor  apply to  arson (AS  11.46.400) but  the committee  would                                                               
have to amend it to include  a building on school grounds if they                                                               
want the arson aggravating factor to stay.                                                                                      
10:12:51 AM                                                                                                                   
MS. CARPENETI asserted arson against  a school building should be                                                               
10:13:06 AM                                                                                                                   
MS.  PATTY WARE,  director, division  of juvenile  justice, (DJJ)                                                               
Department  of  Health  and Social  Services  (DHSS)  offered  to                                                               
answer questions. HB  88 adds offenses for juveniles  who are age                                                               
16 and older  in terms of them being processed  and treated as an                                                               
CHAIR SEEKINS said HB 88 sounds strangely familiar.                                                                             
SENATOR THERRIAULT advised  it was similar to SB 65.  He moved to                                                               
Amendment 1.                                                                                                                    
     Strike Section 1.                                                                                                          
Hearing no objections, Amendment 1 carried.                                                                                     
Chair Seekins announced a brief recess at 10:15:37 AM.                                                                        
Chair Seekins reconvened the meeting at 10:19:59 AM.                                                                          
CHAIR SEEKINS and the committee reviewed CSSB 65(JUD).                                                                          
SENATOR FRENCH commented  HB 88 focuses on  juveniles who perform                                                               
adult-type crimes.                                                                                                              
10:24:01 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR FRENCH  said HB  88 is  the more  likely vehicle  to pass                                                               
legislation this term. He suggested  replacing Section 3 of HB 88                                                               
with Section 1 of CSSB 65(JUD).                                                                                                 
SENATOR THERRIAULT commented the only  difference is the issue of                                                               
arson. HB 88 Section 3 added AS 11.46.400, which is problematic.                                                                
MS. CARPENETI stated the problem would be fixed by an amendment.                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT  asked whether  the committee wants  to delete                                                               
arson or confine it to arson against school buildings.                                                                          
SENATOR  FRENCH  asserted arson  against  school  property was  a                                                               
problem in his community.                                                                                                       
10:25:08 AM                                                                                                                   
MS.  CARPENETI  said  in  order  to leave  arson  in  HB  88  the                                                               
committee would  have to limit  it to school buildings  on school                                                               
grounds or school busses.                                                                                                       
SENATOR FRENCH moved Amendment 2.                                                                                               
     Strike HB 88 Section 3 and insert CSSB 65(JUD) Section 1.                                                                  
Hearing no objections, Amendment 2 was adopted.                                                                                 
10:26:42 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR FRENCH  proposed Amendment  3, which adds  arson. Hearing                                                               
no objections, Amendment 3 was adopted.                                                                                         
10:29:07 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR FRENCH asked  Ms. Carpeneti whether the  DOL supports the                                                               
MS. CARPENETI replied yes.                                                                                                      
SENATOR  THERRIAULT  asked  Ms.   Carpeneti  to  comment  on  the                                                               
difference in  HB 88  and CSSB  65(JUD) in  regards to  first and                                                               
second-degree weapon use.                                                                                                       
10:31:43 AM                                                                                                                   
MS. CARPENETI said  CSSB 65(JUD) included both  first and second-                                                               
degree misconduct  involving weapons. HB  88 would not  waive for                                                               
certain  behavior,  such  as possessing  a  concealed  weapon  on                                                               
school grounds and  behavior with discharging of a  firearm at or                                                               
in  the  direction of  a  building  with reckless  disregard  for                                                               
physical injury to a person or a dwelling.                                                                                      
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked whether the  DOL agreed to the narrowing                                                               
of the statute.                                                                                                                 
MS. CARPENETI advised they spoke against it.                                                                                    
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked the reasoning.                                                                                         
MS. WARE interjected to explain the  thinking had to do with what                                                               
Senator  French  mentioned  earlier   -  the  decision  to  waive                                                               
juveniles  into  adult  court. The  discussion  centered  on  the                                                               
seriousness of  second degree versus first  degree and possession                                                               
versus  actually using  a gun  during a  crime. In  terms of  the                                                               
numbers, in a two-year period  the DJJ reported 16 juveniles were                                                               
charged  with misconduct  involving weapons  in the  first degree                                                               
and the second degree. Under  the narrower version, the DJJ would                                                               
have waived five of these  juveniles into the adult system. Under                                                               
the broader definition,  all 16 juveniles would  have been waived                                                               
into adult court.                                                                                                               
10:34:18 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR GUESS asked  Ms. Ware whether the DJJ  has the discretion                                                               
to waive cases into the adult system.                                                                                           
MS. WARE replied they do  under the existing statutes any offense                                                               
that  is deemed  serious enough  they connect  with the  district                                                               
attorney's  office and  petition the  court for  a waiver  of the                                                               
individual into the adult court system.                                                                                         
SENATOR FRENCH clarified HB 88 allowed for an automatic waiver.                                                                 
MS. CARPENETI interjected the argument  on the other side is that                                                               
an automatic  waiver is a serious  step, so they decided  it best                                                               
to best  to start with  the first  degree offense and  later look                                                               
into second degree.                                                                                                             
SENATOR THERRIAULT agreed with the narrower scope.                                                                              
SENATOR  THERRIAULT   asked  for  clarification  on   Section  1,                                                               
subparagraph (B). He  wondered whether an after  school swim club                                                               
at a local gym would be included.                                                                                               
MS. WARE  explained the key  word in Section 1,  subparagraph (B)                                                               
is  "licensed". The  DHSS  licenses an  array  of facilities  for                                                               
shelter services  for children.  The example  given would  not be                                                               
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked about a boys and girls club.                                                                           
MS. WARE responded they were not licensed.                                                                                      
10:38:53 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR SEEKINS announced the committee would wait for a clean                                                                    
version of the amended bill before going further.                                                                               
CHAIR SEEKINS recessed the Senate Standing Judiciary Committee                                                                  
until 4 pm April 23, 2005 at 10:41:51 AM.                                                                                     

Document Name Date/Time Subjects