Legislature(2005 - 2006)BUTROVICH 205

04/18/2005 08:30 AM JUDICIARY

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08:36:32 AM Start
08:37:33 AM Confirmation Hearing: Board of Governors of the Alaska Bar: Mr. Joseph N. Faulhaber
08:41:34 AM Confirmation Hearing: Board of Governors of the Alaska Bar: Ms. Terry L. Thurbon
09:08:34 AM SB154
10:20:41 AM SB86
10:29:04 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Confirmations: TELECONFERENCED
Board of Governors of the Alaska Bar
Joseph N. Faulhaber
Chief Administrative Law Judge
Terry L. Thurbon
Scheduled But Not Heard
<Above Bill Hearing Canceled>
Moved CSSB 154(JUD) Out of Committee
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSSB 86(CRA) Out of Committee
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         April 18, 2005                                                                                         
                           8:36 a.m.                                                                                            
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
Senator Ralph Seekins, Chair                                                                                                    
Senator Charlie Huggins, Vice Chair                                                                                             
Senator Gene Therriault                                                                                                         
Senator Hollis French                                                                                                           
Senator Gretchen Guess                                                                                                          
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS:                                                                                                          
Board of Governors of the Alaska Bar: Mr. Joseph N. Faulhaber                                                                   
CONFIRMATION ADVANCED                                                                                                           
Chief Administrative Law Judge: Ms. Terry L. Thurbon                                                                            
CONFIRMATION ADVANCED                                                                                                           
SENATE BILL NO. 154                                                                                                             
"An Act relating to the  jurisdiction for proceedings relating to                                                               
delinquent minors  and to telephonic and  televised participation                                                               
in those proceedings; amending Rules 2,  3, 4, 8, 12, 13, 14, 15,                                                               
16,  21, 22,  23, 24.1,  and  25, Alaska  Delinquency Rules;  and                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
     MOVED CSSB 154(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
SENATE BILL NO. 86                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the liability of the state and                                                                              
municipalities for attorney fees in certain civil actions and                                                                   
appeals; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                  
     MOVED CSSB 86(CRA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                        
SENATE BILL NO. 134                                                                                                             
"An Act relating to arrest; relating to investigation standards                                                                 
for police officers conducting criminal investigations and                                                                      
violations of those standards."                                                                                                 
     SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                    
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
BILL: SB 154                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: JUVENILE DELINQUENCY PROCEEDINGS                                                                                   
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) THERRIAULT                                                                                               
03/29/05       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/29/05       (S)       STA, JUD                                                                                               
04/07/05       (S)       STA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 211                                                                               
04/07/05       (S)       Moved CSSB 154(STA) Out of Committee                                                                   
04/07/05       (S)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
04/08/05       (S)       STA RPT CS 2DP 1NR SAME TITLE                                                                          
04/08/05       (S)       DP: THERRIAULT, DAVIS                                                                                  
04/08/05       (S)       NR: WAGONER                                                                                            
04/18/05       (S)       JUD AT 8:30 AM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
BILL: SB 86                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE: STATE/MUNI LIABILITY FOR ATTORNEY FEES                                                                             
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
01/31/05       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/31/05       (S)       CRA, JUD                                                                                               
02/09/05       (S)       CRA AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211                                                                               
02/09/05       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/09/05       (S)       MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                            
04/04/05       (S)       CRA AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211                                                                               
04/04/05       (S)       Moved CSSB 86(CRA) Out of Committee                                                                    
04/04/05       (S)       MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                            
04/05/05       (S)       CRA RPT CS 1DP 2DNP 2NR                                                                                
04/05/05       (S)       NR: STEVENS G, STEDMAN                                                                                 
04/05/05       (S)       DP: WAGONER                                                                                            
04/05/05       (S)       DNP: ELLIS, KOOKESH                                                                                    
04/15/05       (S)       JUD AT 8:00 AM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
04/15/05       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
04/15/05       (S)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
Mr. Joseph N. Faulhaber                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:  Confirmation Candidate                                                                                   
Ms. Terry L. Thurbon                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Confirmation Candidate                                                                                   
Ms. Heather Brakes                                                                                                              
Staff to Senator Therriault                                                                                                     
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Introduced SB 154                                                                                        
Ms. Patty Ware, Director                                                                                                        
Division of Juvenile Justice                                                                                                    
Department of Corrections                                                                                                       
PO Box 110635                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK 99811                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on SB 154                                                                                      
Mr. Tony Newman, Program Officer                                                                                                
Division of Juvenile Justice                                                                                                    
Department of Corrections                                                                                                       
431 N. Franklin, Suite 400                                                                                                      
Juneau, AK 99801                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on SB 154                                                                                      
Ms. Anne Carpeneti, Attorney                                                                                                    
Department of Law                                                                                                               
PO Box 110300                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99811-0300                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on 154                                                                                         
Ms. Linda Wilson, Deputy Director                                                                                               
Alaska Public Defenders Agency                                                                                                  
900 W. 5 Ave                                                                                                                    
Anchorage, AK 99501                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to SB 154                                                                        
Mr. Craig Tillery, Assistant Attorney General                                                                                   
Department of Law                                                                                                               
PO Box 110300                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99811-0300                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on SB 86                                                                                       
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
CHAIR RALPH SEEKINS called the Senate Judiciary Standing                                                                      
Committee meeting to order at 8:36:32 AM. Present were Senators                                                               
Charlie Huggins, Gene Therriault and Chair Ralph Seekins.                                                                       
^Confirmation Hearing: Board of Governors  of the Alaska Bar: Mr.                                                           
Joseph N. Faulhaber                                                                                                         
8:37:33 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR RALPH SEEKINS asked Mr.  Faulhaber the reason he aspires to                                                               
be confirmed to the Board of Governors.                                                                                         
MR. JOSEPH FAULHABER  said he had a desire to  do something about                                                               
Alaska tort law,  specifically Alaska Civil Rule  82. The English                                                               
system makes the  prevailing party well - meaning; a  victim of a                                                               
frivolous lawsuit  would recoup 100 percent  of reasonable costs,                                                               
which seems  a reasonable  conclusion. The  operation of  the Bar                                                               
system is also  interesting. He said he would  like to contribute                                                               
to running a balanced budget and to ensure it is cost effective.                                                                
8:40:23 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR CHARLIE HUGGINS moved to  advance Mr. Joseph Faulhaber to                                                               
the Senate  Floor for consideration.  Hearing no  objections, the                                                               
motion carried.                                                                                                                 
^Confirmation Hearing: Board of Governors  of the Alaska Bar: Ms.                                                           
Terry L. Thurbon                                                                                                            
8:41:34 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR RALPH SEEKINS  asked Ms. Thurbon the reason  she aspires to                                                               
be confirmed as Chief Administrative Law Judge.                                                                                 
MS. TERRY THURBON, acting chief  administrative law judge, Office                                                               
of Administrative Hearings, explained she  aspires to be the very                                                               
first chief  administrative law judge  while getting  the program                                                               
off  on  the  right  foot. She  has  past  experience  developing                                                               
existing  programs but  would  like the  opportunity  to start  a                                                               
program off from the beginning  and oversee the entire operation.                                                               
In addition  to conducting hearings,  the office is  charged with                                                               
providing training and publishing  decisions and other peripheral                                                               
functions.  She  said she  finds  it  very interesting  and  very                                                               
challenging  and would  appreciate the  opportunity to  help make                                                               
the adjudication system in Alaska more consistent and efficient.                                                                
SENATOR  GENE  THERRIAULT  asked   Ms.  Thurbon  to  apprise  the                                                               
committee of the timeline for setting up the operation.                                                                         
8:44:20 AM                                                                                                                    
MS.  THURBON  explained the  Legislature  created  the Office  of                                                               
Administrative Hearings July 2004.  The contemplation was that on                                                               
July 1, 2005 the office would  be up and running. The regulations                                                               
might  not be  in effect  at  that point  so there  is a  6-month                                                               
window of  opportunity to  get things rolling.  As of  January 1,                                                               
2005  several hearing  officer positions  and some  support staff                                                               
positions transferred in. They have  made good strides in getting                                                               
decision  writing consistent  and are  getting prepared  to start                                                               
publishing decisions  and getting  organized. The office  is well                                                               
on its way  to having the code of conduct  regulations that apply                                                               
to  all  state  hearing  officers   as  well  as  the  procedural                                                               
regulations that will apply to the hearings.                                                                                    
8:46:32 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SEEKINS asked Ms. Thurbon the location of the office.                                                                     
MS. THURBON explained Anchorage and Juneau both have offices.                                                                   
CHAIR SEEKINS asked the strengths of having a central panel.                                                                    
MS.  THURBON said  a  central panel  has the  benefit  of a  peer                                                               
review, which contributes to more  consistent and clearly written                                                               
decisions. A  central panel  will prove to  be more  flexible and                                                               
have  more timely  prosecution  of cases.  The  biggest thing  is                                                               
consistency in  the way  hearings are  conducted with  respect to                                                               
efficiency and fairness.                                                                                                        
8:51:01 AM                                                                                                                    
Senator Hollis French joined the committee.                                                                                     
8:51:07 AM                                                                                                                    
MS. THURBON  continued the office  attempts to inform  the public                                                               
at every  opportunity that they  are an independent  agency. They                                                               
are trying to locate the  Anchorage office away from the agencies                                                               
that  could be  part of  a dispute.  Juneau is  separate already.                                                               
That change is improving the structure of the process.                                                                          
8:53:17 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked Ms. Thurbon  whether she scrutinized and                                                               
critiqued all written decisions.                                                                                                
MS. THURBON  advised she is  currently looking at  every decision                                                               
as part  of her  effort to  making sure  there is  consistency in                                                               
substance as well as in the written presentation.                                                                               
8:55:29 AM                                                                                                                    
Senator Gretchen Guess joined the committee.                                                                                    
SENATOR THERRIAULT  asked the level  of interaction  the drafters                                                               
had with Ms. Thurbon's office regarding SB 141.                                                                                 
MS.  THURBON  clarified there  was  no  interaction at  all.  The                                                               
Office  of Administrative  Hearings is  within the  Department of                                                               
Administration  simply   because  they   have  to  have   a  home                                                               
somewhere. There are a number  of things the Legislature put into                                                               
law  when  creating   the  office  that  were   meant  to  ensure                                                               
decisional independence.                                                                                                        
8:59:01 AM                                                                                                                    
MS.  THURBON added  she is  required  to copy  the office  budget                                                               
requests directly  to the finance  committees of both  houses. SB                                                               
141 legislation  makes the Office of  Administrative Hearings the                                                               
final decision-maker on the appeals.                                                                                            
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked Ms. Thurbon  whether she is receptive to                                                               
the idea of cross training.                                                                                                     
9:01:05 AM                                                                                                                    
MS. THURBON voiced  they have been working on  cross training and                                                               
there has been no resistance.                                                                                                   
9:02:43 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  THERRIAULT moved  to advance  Ms. Terry  Thurbon to  the                                                               
Senate  Floor  for  consideration.  Hearing  no  objections,  the                                                               
motion carried.                                                                                                                 
Chair Seekins announced a brief recess at 9:03:18 AM.                                                                         
Chair Seekins reconvened the meeting at 9:08:08 AM.                                                                           
            SB 154- JUVENILE DELINQUENCY PROCEEDINGS                                                                        
9:08:34 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR RALPH SEEKINS announced SB 154 to be up for consideration.                                                                
Ms. HEATHER  BRAKES, staff to  Senator Therriault,  introduced SB                                                               
154. SB  154 would improve  the state's ability to  hold juvenile                                                               
offenders accountable.  It would also increase  efficiency of the                                                               
juvenile justice  system by allowing telephonic  hearings in some                                                               
court  proceedings.  SB  154  addresses  a  loophole  and  places                                                               
jurisdiction for  an adult discovered  to have committed  a crime                                                               
while under the age of 18.                                                                                                      
9:11:22 AM                                                                                                                    
MS.  PATTY   WARE,  director,   Division  of   Juvenile  Justice,                                                               
Department of  Corrections (DOC), voiced  support of SB  154. She                                                               
advised the  committee of  two cases  in Kenai  involving serious                                                               
charges relating to sexual abuse  of a minor. The Alaska Superior                                                               
Court,  in both  cases,  ruled there  was  no legal  jurisdiction                                                               
either  for the  juvenile justice  system or  the criminal  court                                                               
system. The first  instance was of a 19 year  old who committed a                                                               
sexual assault when he was 17.                                                                                                  
9:13:05 AM                                                                                                                    
The  second situation  was  of  a 20  year  old  alleged to  have                                                               
committed  crimes when  he was  15  and 17.  The Alaska  Superior                                                               
Court dismissed both cases due  to lack of jurisdiction. She read                                                               
a  quote from  the Alaska  Superior  Court ruling  on the  second                                                               
     The  court recognizes  the  state's  concern that  this                                                                    
     interpretation can allow  juvenile criminal activity to                                                                    
     go unpunished if the crime  did not come to light until                                                                    
     after the juvenile's  18  or 19   birthday. This result                                                                    
     is not of the court's  making. For whatever reason, the                                                                    
     Legislature has mandated  that juvenile jurisdiction in                                                                    
     all  cases  comes  to  an   end  at  the  time  of  the                                                                    
     juvenile's 19   birthday  unless the  juvenile consents                                                                    
     to  a longer  period.  The resolution  of this  problem                                                                    
     rests not with the court, but with the Legislature.                                                                        
9:14:47 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR HOLLIS FRENCH asked whether either order was appealed.                                                                  
MS. WARE admitted  she was not sure.  Section 1 of SB  154 adds a                                                               
new  subsection to  the delinquency  statutes establishing  legal                                                               
jurisdiction. Section 2 establishes  applicability of the rest of                                                               
the delinquency  laws to  this particular  class of  minor, which                                                               
are persons over the  age of 18 by the time  they come before the                                                               
9:17:10 AM                                                                                                                    
MR. TONY  NEWMAN, program officer,  Division of  Juvenile Justice                                                               
demonstrated a visual  presentation on a flip  chart that related                                                               
to juvenile and  adult offense jurisdictions. There  are a couple                                                               
of instances  where juvenile offenders  are managed in  the adult                                                               
system, such as murder and  armed robbery. Another way a juvenile                                                               
can be  forwarded into  the adult criminal  system is  through AS                                                               
47.12.100 where  the state must  demonstrate the juvenile  is not                                                               
amenable  to  treatment.  Dual  sentencing  provisions  apply  to                                                               
serious  offenses  such  as  repeated  felony  crimes  where  the                                                               
district attorney  can seek  both a  juvenile and  adult sentence                                                               
for a minor.                                                                                                                    
9:20:35 AM                                                                                                                    
SB  154  addresses situations  where  crimes  are not  discovered                                                               
until after the person has turned  18 and will give the state the                                                               
opportunity for restitution.                                                                                                    
9:24:03 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR FRENCH asked  whether the first move would be  to ask for                                                               
the discretionary waiver into adult court.                                                                                      
MR. NEWMAN said it would depend on the offense and the offender.                                                                
9:25:57 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  FRENCH asked  whether subsequent  hearings  would be  in                                                               
adult court.                                                                                                                    
MR. NEWMAN answered yes.                                                                                                        
SENATOR  FRENCH  asked  whether  SB 154  would  grant  the  state                                                               
jurisdiction of an adult in juvenile court.                                                                                     
9:27:34 AM                                                                                                                    
MR. NEWMAN responded yes.                                                                                                       
9:28:51 AM                                                                                                                    
MS. WARE continued the second half  of SB 154 allows the juvenile                                                               
justice  system to  use  state resources.  Section  9 proposes  a                                                               
change to  the delinquency rules. It  specifies specific hearings                                                               
where a juvenile has a right  to be physically present. It allows                                                               
for telephonic  presence. Currently the DOC  spends over $200,000                                                               
a year transporting young people to court.                                                                                      
9:32:13 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  FRENCH asked  where the  evidentiary  hearing would  fit                                                               
into the scheme.                                                                                                                
MS. WARE said  those types of issues  happen fairly infrequently.                                                               
She emphasized  they would not  request a telephonic  hearing for                                                               
serious issues.                                                                                                                 
9:34:57 AM                                                                                                                    
MS. ANNE CARPENETI,  Department of Law (DOL),  commented a motion                                                               
hearing is  not specified  in SB  154 as  a proceeding  where the                                                               
juvenile  has to  be present.  Paragraph 3  of the  rule provides                                                               
that  appearance   by  television   is  not  allowed   under  any                                                               
circumstances   in  a   proceeding  where   sworn  testimony   is                                                               
presented.  A motion  hearing would  be supported  by testimonial                                                               
evidence. She said that might need to be added into Paragraph 1.                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH moved Amendment 1.                                                                                               
     Page 7, line 6; after the word "television" add the words                                                                  
     "or telephone."                                                                                                            
Hearing no objections, the motion carried.                                                                                      
9:36:52 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GENE  THERRIAULT asked  Ms. Ware the  number of  cases SB                                                               
154 would apply.                                                                                                                
MS. WARE  answered she would get  back to the committee  with the                                                               
9:38:56 AM                                                                                                                    
MS.  LINDA  WILSON,  deputy   director,  Alaska  Public  Defender                                                               
Agency, testified  she is  quite familiar with  this area  of law                                                               
and offered  to answer  questions. She guessed  there would  be a                                                               
large number of cases that would fall under SB 154.                                                                             
9:43:12 AM                                                                                                                    
MS. WILSON  expressed concern over telephonic  participation of a                                                               
juvenile. Juveniles  often don't understand what  is happening to                                                               
them. She said  they need their attorney present and  they have a                                                               
right to have  them present during hearings  because the hearings                                                               
are critical  and address liberty.  She disputed the  zero fiscal                                                               
notes  saying the  cost will  shift  to another  agency, such  as                                                               
public defender travel  costs. The attorney, the  client, and the                                                               
judge being in the same room create a far greater impact.                                                                       
9:45:12 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked  Ms. Wilson whether she  would travel to                                                               
be  next to  her  client, no  matter how  brief  the hearing  was                                                               
anticipated to be.                                                                                                              
MS. WILSON  responded not  in every  case. Allowing  the juvenile                                                               
the  right  to  waive  presence  at  a  hearing  is  appropriate.                                                               
Allowing the Department of Law  the right to exclude the juvenile                                                               
is worrisome.                                                                                                                   
SENATOR  FRENCH asked  whether  most  contested hearings  involve                                                               
sworn testimony.                                                                                                                
MS. WILSON  answered sometimes detention  review hearings  can be                                                               
contested but not necessarily evidentiary.                                                                                      
SENATOR THERRIAULT  asked committee  members to  consider zeroing                                                               
out the indeterminate fiscal note. He asked Ms. Ware to comment.                                                                
9:48:18 AM                                                                                                                    
MS. WARE remarked  the proposed changes are  addressing the types                                                               
of hearings where a public defender would not travel.                                                                           
CHAIR SEEKINS  asked whether there  existed an  electronic method                                                               
where  the  juvenile and  the  attorney  could communicate  on  a                                                               
secure line.                                                                                                                    
MS. WARE  said due  to the  size and  remoteness of  Alaska, many                                                               
times the primary communication is telephonic.                                                                                  
SENATOR THERRIAULT offered  the hearing could be  recessed so the                                                               
juvenile  and attorney  could communicate  through another  phone                                                               
9:50:39 AM                                                                                                                    
MS. WILSON  advised there is  often not another phone  line. Many                                                               
times juveniles won't interrupt a proceeding to ask a question.                                                                 
CHAIR SEEKINS  asked whether  the attorneys  properly communicate                                                               
with the  client to make sure  they understand that they  can ask                                                               
MS. WILSON  stated sometimes they don't  remember. She maintained                                                               
it  is important  for the  attorney to  be physically  present in                                                               
order to initiate breaks to explain things and answer questions.                                                                
9:52:36 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  FRENCH  asked  Ms.  Wilson  the  most  substantive  type                                                               
hearing where  she felt  SB 154 would  prevent attendance  by the                                                               
MS. WILSON  divulged it would  be the detention  review hearings,                                                               
which is similar to a bail hearing.                                                                                             
MS. WARE  agreed every court hearing  is important. SB 154  is an                                                               
attempt  to propose  an  option  for the  judge  to consider  the                                                               
cost/benefit analysis.                                                                                                          
9:56:09 AM                                                                                                                    
MS. CARPENETI  added the  rule provides the  judge is  the entity                                                               
who decides  whether the person  needs to  be there. The  DOL and                                                               
the DOC  are not excluding the  child; they are asking  the judge                                                               
to decide whether it is essential  for the child to be physically                                                               
SENATOR FRENCH articulated  the closer the call,  the more likely                                                               
the judge would make sure all parties are in the same room.                                                                     
MS. WARE agreed.                                                                                                                
9:57:31 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SEEKINS closed public testimony.                                                                                          
SENATOR THERRIAULT moved the  Senate Standing Judiciary Committee                                                               
draft  a zero  fiscal note  for  the office  of public  defender.                                                               
Hearing no objections, the motion carried.                                                                                      
SENATOR  THERRIAULT  moved  CSSB  154(JUD)  from  committee  with                                                               
individual  recommendations and  attached  fiscal note(s).  There                                                               
being no objection, the motion carried.                                                                                         
CHAIR SEEKINS announced a brief recess at 10:00:18 AM.                                                                        
CHAIR SEEKINS reconvened the meeting at 10:20:41 AM.                                                                          
          SB 86-STATE/MUNI LIABILITY FOR ATTORNEY FEES                                                                      
10:20:41 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR RALPH SEEKINS announced SB 86 to be up for consideration.                                                                 
SENATOR HOLLIS FRENCH  asked Mr. Craig Tillery to  explain to the                                                               
Senate  Standing Judiciary  Committee the  current law  regarding                                                               
what happens when a public interest litigant loses their case.                                                                  
MR. CRAIG TILLERY, assistant attorney  general, Department of Law                                                               
(DOL),  divulged when  a public  interest litigant  loses a  case                                                               
they are not required to pay  the attorney fees of the prevailing                                                               
SENATOR FRENCH asked whether SB 86 changes that.                                                                                
MR. TILLERY  answered SB 86 is  not intended to impact  or affect                                                               
the situation where a public interest litigant loses a lawsuit.                                                                 
SENATOR FRENCH  asserted those  changes are in  HB 145,  which is                                                               
currently tied up in court.                                                                                                     
MR. TILLERY agreed.                                                                                                             
10:23:06 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR  GENE   THERRIAULT  asked  Mr.  Tillery   to  comment  on                                                               
necessity of the findings section.                                                                                              
MR. TILLERY informed the findings and  intent section is in SB 86                                                               
to make it  clear that the Legislature is enacting  the bill as a                                                               
matter of sovereign immunity.                                                                                                   
10:25:16 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR FRENCH  asked Mr.  Tillery whether SB  86 would  embody a                                                               
court rule change.                                                                                                              
MR. TILLERY answered no.                                                                                                        
SENATOR FRENCH  clarified HB  145 was found  contrary by  the one                                                               
court who has reviewed it.                                                                                                      
MR. TILLERY  said SB 86 responds  to that by taking  into account                                                               
the views of the Alaska Superior Court.                                                                                         
10:26:30 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR SEEKINS  asked Mr.  Tillery whether  there was  a sovereign                                                               
immunity issue in HB 145.                                                                                                       
MR. TILLERY  said there was no  sovereign immunity in HB  145. He                                                               
said SB 86 is entirely different from HB 145.                                                                                   
SENATOR  THERRIAULT  moved  CSSB   86(CRA)  from  committee  with                                                               
individual recommendations and attached fiscal note(s).                                                                         
SENATOR FRENCH objected.                                                                                                        
Roll  call proved  CSSB 86(CRA)  passed from  committee on  a 3-2                                                               
vote with Senators French and Guess dissenting.                                                                                 
There being  no further  business to  come before  the committee,                                                               
Chair Seekins adjourned the meeting at 10:29:04 AM.                                                                           

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