Legislature(2003 - 2004)

05/03/2003 09:12 AM Senate JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                          May 3, 2003                                                                                           
                           9:12 a.m.                                                                                            
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
Senator Ralph Seekins, Chair                                                                                                    
Senator Scott Ogan, Vice Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Gene Therriault                                                                                                         
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
Senator Johnny Ellis                                                                                                            
Senator Hollis French                                                                                                           
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 212(JUD)                                                                                                  
"An Act  relating to trusts, including  trust protectors, trustee                                                               
advisors, transfers of property in  trust, and transfers of trust                                                               
interests, and  to creditors' claims against  property subject to                                                               
a power of appointment."                                                                                                        
     MOVED CSHB 212(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 1(JUD)                                                                                                    
"An  Act  relating to  stalking  and  to violating  a  protective                                                               
order;  and  amending Rules  4  and  65,  Alaska Rules  of  Civil                                                               
Procedure, and Rule 9, Alaska Rules of Administration."                                                                         
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
SENATE BILL NO. 30                                                                                                              
"An  Act  relating  to  information  and  services  available  to                                                               
pregnant women  and other persons; and  ensuring informed consent                                                               
before an abortion  may be performed, except in  cases of medical                                                               
     MOVED CSSB 30(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                        
SENATE BILL NO. 175                                                                                                             
"An Act  relating to civil liability  for commercial recreational                                                               
activities   and  for   guest  passengers   on  an   aircraft  or                                                               
watercraft; and providing for an effective date."                                                                               
     SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                    
SENATE BILL NO. 176                                                                                                             
"An Act relating to civil liability for injuries or death                                                                       
resulting from livestock activities."                                                                                           
     SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                    
HOUSE BILL NO. 114                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the issuance of a search warrant."                                                                          
     SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                    
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
HB 212 - No previous action recorded.                                                                                           
HB 1 - See State Affairs minutes dated 4/24/03.                                                                                 
SB 30 - See HESS minutes dated 3/17/03, 3/26/03, 4/3/03, 4/9/03                                                                 
     and 4/14/03 and Judiciary minutes dated 5/2/03.                                                                            
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
Ms. Vanessa Tondini                                                                                                             
Staff to Representative Lesil McGuire                                                                                           
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 212.                                                                                      
Mr. Bruce Roberts, DA                                                                                                           
Municipality of Anchorage                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 1.                                                                                        
Representative Cheryl Heinze                                                                                                    
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 1.                                                                                          
Ms. Mary Wells                                                                                                                  
c/o Representative Heinze                                                                                                       
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 1.                                                                                          
Ms. Karen Vosburgh, Executive Director                                                                                          
Alaska Right to Life                                                                                                            
PO Box 1847 Palmer AK                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported SB 30.                                                                                         
Ms. Mary Ross, Nurse Midwife                                                                                                    
Nurse's Association & Nurse Practitioner's Association                                                                          
342 5th Ave.                                                                                                                    
Anchorage AK 99501                                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 30.                                                                                            
Ms. Cassandra Johnson-Blackbird                                                                                                 
PO Box 238676                                                                                                                   
Anchorage AK 99501                                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 30.                                                                                            
Ms. Theda Pittman                                                                                                               
PO Box 241513                                                                                                                   
Anchorage AK 99524                                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 30.                                                                                            
Dr. Bob Johnson                                                                                                                 
PO Box 945                                                                                                                      
Kodiak AK 99615                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 30.                                                                                          
Ms. Jennifer Rudinger, Executive Director                                                                                       
Alaska Civil Liberties Union (ACLU)                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed SB 30.                                                                                           
Dr. Carolyn Brown                                                                                                               
No address provided                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 30.                                                                                            
Ms. Debbie Joslin                                                                                                               
PO Box 377                                                                                                                      
Delta Junction AK 99737                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 30.                                                                                          
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
TAPE 03-35, SIDE A                                                                                                            
         HB 212-POWERS OF APPOINTMENTS/TRUSTS/CREDITORS                                                                     
CHAIR  RALPH   SEEKINS  called  the  Senate   Judiciary  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting  to order  at 9:12  a.m. Present  were Senators                                                               
Ogan and Therriault.  The first order of business  to come before                                                               
the committee was HB 212.                                                                                                       
MS. VANESSA TONDINI, Staff to  Representative Lesil McGuire, said                                                               
that version S is identical to  version I of the Senate companion                                                               
bill, SB 163.                                                                                                                   
SENATOR  THERRIAULT moved  to pass  CSHB 212(JUD)  from committee                                                               
with the  attached fiscal  note with  individual recommendations.                                                               
There were no objections and it was so ordered.                                                                                 
              HB   1-STALKING & PROTECTIVE ORDERS                                                                           
CHAIR  SEEKINS  announced  HB  1,   version  \H,  to  be  up  for                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE CHERYL HEINZE,  sponsor of HB 1, said  it closes a                                                               
dangerous  loophole  in  the  Alaska  statutes  by  allowing  the                                                               
victims  of  stalking,  the security  of  a  judicial  protective                                                               
order. Any  person who believes  he is  a victim of  stalking not                                                               
related to domestic violence may  file a petition in the district                                                               
or Superior Court and receive  a stalking protective order. Under                                                               
current law, protection  to a stalking victim  is only associated                                                               
with  domestic violence  cases.  This bill  also streamlines  the                                                               
process  for   public  safety   and  judicial   practitioners  by                                                               
harmonizing  the arrest  and  notification  procedures to  mirror                                                               
those already in place for domestic violence.                                                                                   
SENATOR OGAN  asked her to  explain why  they are using  ex parte                                                               
MR.  BRUCE   ROBERTS,  District  Attorney,  City   of  Anchorage,                                                               
explained that  ex parte  means that one  party can  have contact                                                               
with a judge.  Ordinarily a judge, being a  neutral party, should                                                               
not speak to one party without  the other one present. This would                                                               
allow  the  petitioner not  to  actually  have a  hearing  behind                                                               
closed doors.  She fills out a  form, presents that to  the court                                                               
with  the  facts  and  is  then sworn  under  oath  and  provides                                                               
testimony or answers  questions in support of  that affidavit. It                                                               
is a  public record.  One of  the reasons  to make  a restraining                                                               
order ex parte is because it  couldn't be accomplished if you had                                                               
to wait for  the respondent or the batterer  or whoever. However,                                                               
the defendant has  an opportunity to respond to  the order within                                                               
20 days.                                                                                                                        
CHAIR  SEEKINS   said  that  Representative  Holm   submitted  an                                                               
amendment that would remove a  defendant from the registry if the                                                               
protective order  is found to  be without merit and  dissolved by                                                               
the court, which  protects people from the  frivolous or spiteful                                                               
order request.                                                                                                                  
CHAIR SEEKINS asked  Representative Heinze if she  wanted to work                                                               
on that language with Representative Holm.                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE  was surprised she hadn't  heard about this                                                               
amendment and said  she would work on it with  him. There are all                                                               
kinds of  protective laws associated with  domestic violence, but                                                               
this bill  is mainly for  someone being  stalked who has  no idea                                                               
who the person is that is stalking them.                                                                                        
SENATOR OGAN  asked what are  the typical cases of  stalking that                                                               
the city deals with.                                                                                                            
MR.  ROBERTS  replied   that  he  had  been   with  the  District                                                               
Attorney's  Office   for  15  years   and  that  stalking   is  a                                                               
misdemeanor   within  the   municipality   and   the  state   has                                                               
misdemeanor  and  felony  stalking (violation  of  a  restraining                                                               
order). He  was a little  leery of  the amendment because  if the                                                               
petitioner applies  for the  order, she  has to  prove as  of now                                                               
that she  is in need  of protection and  that an act  of domestic                                                               
violence    has   been    committed   against    her.   Sometimes                                                               
reconciliation takes  place or one  or both people don't  show up                                                               
at  the hearing.  He  didn't know  if an  order  could be  issued                                                               
against someone who was unknown.                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS noted  that AS 18.65.540, the  Department of Public                                                               
Safety  shall maintain  a central  registry of  protective orders                                                               
issued or  filed with the  court that  must include the  names of                                                               
the  petitioner, the  respondent, their  dates of  birth and  the                                                               
conditions and duration  of the order. The  registry shall retain                                                               
a  record  of   the  protective  order  after   it  has  expired.                                                               
Representative  Holm  is  suggesting  the  Department  of  Public                                                               
Safety should  remove from  the registry  an ex  parte protective                                                               
order that  is dissolved  by the court  or expires  without being                                                               
issued. He thought the idea might have some merit.                                                                              
MR. ROBERTS said the registry is  a public record, but one of the                                                               
reasons for it is that it  is shared between states. There may be                                                               
some federal requirements and the amendment might need review.                                                                  
SENATOR OGAN said he was concerned about due process.                                                                           
CHAIR SEEKINS said he agreed with  the intent of the bill, but he                                                               
wanted  to  examine that  question  so  that they  didn't  unduly                                                               
burden someone who was not a stalker.                                                                                           
MS. MARY WELLS  said she is the reason this  bill is before them.                                                               
She and her entire family,  including her husband, was stalked by                                                               
an individual who befriended her  children and called them at all                                                               
times  of the  day and  night with  threats. She  felt this  bill                                                               
would have provided  her with a lot of protection  and hoped that                                                               
it would pass this year.                                                                                                        
CHAIR SEEKINS  thanked everyone for  their comments and  said the                                                               
bill would be held for further work.                                                                                            
         SB  30-ABORTION: INFORMED CONSENT; INFORMATION                                                                     
CHAIR SEEKINS announced SB 30 to be up for consideration.                                                                       
MS.  KAREN VOSBURGH,  Executive Director,  Alaska Right  To Life,                                                               
said people  need this information  about potential  physical and                                                               
psychological damage that is incurred  by abortion. She read from                                                               
a report from the Gerber  Institute in Toronto Canada saying that                                                               
abortion complications are seriously underreported.                                                                             
CHAIR SEEKINS asked her to submit  her testimony to his office by                                                               
MS. MARY ROSS,  Nurse/Midwife, said she opposed SB  30 because it                                                               
presented  another  hurdle  to   abortion,  which  is  a  woman's                                                               
constitutional   right.   The   requirement  to   get   extensive                                                               
counseling  is   belittling  to  an  intelligent   woman  and  an                                                               
infringement  on  privacy. In  her  experience  with women,  this                                                               
decision is never  taken lightly. Many times,  it's difficult for                                                               
a  pregnant teen  to talk  to her  parents and  she might  get an                                                               
illegal abortion,  which could lead  to her getting  an infection                                                               
or worse.  She said this  not only places burdens  on physicians,                                                               
but  places limits  on the  professional scope  of practice.  The                                                               
right to  abortion is  a matter of  privacy and  a constitutional                                                               
right that was decided by the  Supreme Court of the United States                                                               
of America.  Moral judgment that  seems to  be in this  bill does                                                               
not have a role to play in the laws of the land.                                                                                
TAPE 03-35, SIDE B                                                                                                            
CHAIR SEEKINS  asked if  this was an  official position  taken by                                                               
the Nurse's Association  and if she could fax them  a copy of the                                                               
resolution. She said she would get that to them.                                                                                
MS.  CASSANDRA  JOHNSON-BLACKBIRD,  Anchorage  mother,  said  she                                                               
didn't  think  her  reproductive   health  history  is  anybody's                                                               
business.  She  did not  think  that  all  negative things  in  a                                                               
woman's  life  could  be  linked to  abortion.  She  related  her                                                               
personal story about  her decision process in  having an abortion                                                               
- after which she felt an  "overwhelming sense of relief." She is                                                               
married now  and has two  children; she considers  herself happy,                                                               
productive and successful.                                                                                                      
MS. PAULINE  UTTER, Anchorage  grandmother, said  she has  had an                                                               
abortion and  three children. She  stated that 90 percent  of all                                                               
pregnancies are  unintended and  50 percent of  all women  in the                                                               
United States have had abortions.  She can't believe we are still                                                               
discussing this issue;  she also couldn't believe  that all those                                                               
women are psychologically damaged by  the fact that they have had                                                               
an abortion.  If there is  information provided on  the Internet,                                                               
she  requested that  it  is accurate  and  doesn't use  emotional                                                               
phrases like  "unborn child," but rather  medically correct terms                                                               
like  fetal   development.  It   should  also   provide  accurate                                                               
information  about  the  amount  of money  women  can  expect  to                                                               
receive if  she has a child  out of wedlock and  what will happen                                                               
to her earning capabilities.                                                                                                    
SENATOR OGAN asked her if it  was accurate that 50 percent of all                                                               
women in the U.S. have abortions.                                                                                               
MS. UTTER replied that it is accurate.                                                                                          
SENATOR OGAN asked her if  she felt that pro-choice people should                                                               
make an informed  choice. He felt that people  making this choice                                                               
should have all the information.                                                                                                
MS.  HUNTER   replied,  "Are  you   suggesting  that   we  aren't                                                               
SENATOR  THERRIAULT remarked  that some  people suggest  that the                                                               
information is  slanted and  he felt  that a  website run  by the                                                               
state would have accurate medical information.                                                                                  
MS.  HUNTER replied  post abortion  counseling  and services  are                                                               
SENATOR  DYSON  inserted that  "foetus"  is  the Latin  word  for                                                               
unborn child  and they are  trying to provide for  translation of                                                               
this information into various languages.                                                                                        
MS. THEDA  PITTMAN, Anchorage resident,  opposed SB 30,  but said                                                               
she  supports efforts  to  reduce the  number  of abortions.  She                                                               
thought  SB  30 was  poor  public  policy,  because it  does  not                                                               
adequately document the state's interest in this matter.                                                                        
     It  treats pregnancies  and  abortions  as though  they                                                                    
     were uniform events from woman  to woman from beginning                                                                    
     to end. It would be a  better position for the state to                                                                    
     focus  on   the  process  of  unplanned   and  unwanted                                                                    
     pregnancies. The  worst of these,  I believe,  are rape                                                                    
     and incest.                                                                                                                
MS.  PITMAN   noted  that   sometimes  contraceptives   fail  and                                                               
sometimes  there are  reasons they  cannot be  used at  all, like                                                               
lack  of  health  insurance  or   the  inability  to  afford  the                                                               
contraceptive or poor judgment.                                                                                                 
She supported Senator Dyson's comment  about adult men having sex                                                               
with minor females, but said  it disturbs her that these problems                                                               
are approached from  the perspective of trying to  fix the woman.                                                               
In reality, in  an overwhelming number of cases, it  is the woman                                                               
who will have to feed, cloth,  shelter and care for the child 365                                                               
days  a year  for  18 years  or more.  And,  while she  applauded                                                               
fathers who shared the costs and  the actual work, that isn't the                                                               
norm, yet.  She preferred  that pregnant women  were not  told to                                                               
believe that is the case.  She felt that abortions would continue                                                               
whether  or not  this  bill passed,  but she  felt  there was  no                                                               
better place  than the  Judiciary Committee to  say that  this is                                                               
not the standard or spirit of law.                                                                                              
DR. BOB  JOHNSON said  he has  been a resident  of Alaska  for 65                                                               
years and  he performed  approximately 70  abortions per  year in                                                               
the  last 10  years  of his  practice. He  is  familiar with  the                                                               
procedure  and  with  the  women who  request  it.  He  practiced                                                               
medicine before  abortion was  legal and  saw many  children born                                                               
into families  where they weren't  wanted, couldn't  be afforded,                                                               
belonged  to single  mothers  who were  the  offspring of  single                                                               
mothers, many of whom were on  welfare. If those children grew up                                                               
satisfactorily, they were often wards  of the state. Many of them                                                               
did not grow up satisfactorily and  were his patients as well. He                                                               
had patients plead with him  to terminate their pregnancy. Out of                                                               
his  700  patients,  only  two had  post  abortion  depression  -                                                               
considerably less than  those who had post  partum depression. He                                                               
never   had  a   complication   with  a   mother  that   required                                                               
intervention; there  were no  maternal deaths  and no  blood loss                                                               
that required transfusions. There were no infections.                                                                           
DR. JOHNSON  said he thought this  law was a mistake  and that it                                                               
intrudes upon the privacy of  women. Some women sought counseling                                                               
at  a  crisis   center  and  were  made  to   feel  guilty  about                                                               
considering  abortion.  He  felt  that if  there  was  depression                                                               
associated  with abortion  that  it came  from the  right-to-life                                                               
people attaching so much guilt to it with their comments.                                                                       
He also was very concerned about  what might occur on an Internet                                                               
site. His experience  is that many of the  complications that are                                                               
mentioned are  influenced by  those who believe  this is  an evil                                                               
concept and feel  it is their responsibility  to discourage women                                                               
from making  the choice. They  emphasize out of  proportion often                                                               
what the complications  are and their severity, as  well as their                                                               
frequency. He  felt that having a  law dictate what a  doctor has                                                               
to tell his patients is out of line.                                                                                            
SENATOR THERRIAULT  pointed out  that language  in the  bill says                                                               
that only  unbiased objective information should  be provided. He                                                               
asked  if  the  doctor  is  required  by  law  to  provide  basic                                                               
information about possible complications and their frequency.                                                                   
DR. JOHNSON replied  that his point is that he  doesn't trust the                                                               
Legislature to have  accurate information and he  didn't think it                                                               
was a  legislator's responsibility  to decide what  information a                                                               
patient should have; it's the  woman's decision. Some women don't                                                               
want to  know what the  fetus looks like  every two weeks  and he                                                               
wasn't sure it  was necessary that they do.  Doctors already have                                                               
to   be  responsible   for   giving   their  patients   objective                                                               
information on which  to base their decisions.  They are required                                                               
to discuss the possible complications of any procedure.                                                                         
SENATOR  THERRIAULT   asked  if  the  government   dictates  what                                                               
information needs to be in other health pamphlets.                                                                              
DR.  JOHNSON replied  that the  Department of  Health gives  them                                                               
information on immunization.                                                                                                    
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked  how that is any different  than what is                                                               
being requested here.                                                                                                           
DR. JOHNSON  replied that it  is quite different because  one has                                                               
to do with a woman's choice about  what to do with her life while                                                               
the vaccination is elective.                                                                                                    
SENATOR THERRIAULT  responded that  his children  couldn't attend                                                               
school without vaccinations.                                                                                                    
DR. JOHNSON said that is true.                                                                                                  
CHAIR SEEKINS  pointed out that  adult consent is required  for a                                                               
minor child to get a vaccination, but not to get an abortion.                                                                   
DR. JOHNSON replied that the  reason vaccinations are required is                                                               
that the  larger community is at  risk. In the case  of abortion,                                                               
it is an  individual decision and the larger community  is not at                                                               
risk on the basis of the woman's decision.                                                                                      
10:25 a.m.                                                                                                                      
SENATOR DYSON  asked if  he could infer  from his  testimony that                                                               
there  are  no human  rights  considerations  that public  policy                                                               
makers should take  into account when dealing  with abortion. Roe                                                               
v. Wade  said that the  state has  an increasing interest  in the                                                               
life of a child with its viability.                                                                                             
DR. JOHNSON  replied that their  consideration of the  embryo and                                                               
the  fetus as  being an  unborn child  capable of  behaving as  a                                                               
human being is inaccurate. "A child  is a potential child, but so                                                               
is every child that is not  conceived because of the use of birth                                                               
control.... I  feel a  fetus is  not an  individual and  does not                                                               
have  even  all  its  parts  together, yet;  is  not  capable  of                                                               
rational  thinking, is  not capable  of anything  other than  the                                                               
most basic  responses to  perhaps pain or  noise.... It's  not an                                                               
individual, particularly in the first trimester..."                                                                             
SENATOR DYSON asked  if a woman should be able  to decide to have                                                               
an abortion based simply on the fact that it's not wanted.                                                                      
DR. JOHNSON replied, "Of course."                                                                                               
MS.  JENNIFER  RUDINGER,  Executive   Director,  ACLU,  said  she                                                               
submitted  written  testimony,  but  she  wanted  to  notice  the                                                               
committee  that   the  ACLU  has   serious  concerns   about  the                                                               
constitutionality of  SB 30  since it  imposes restrictions  on a                                                               
woman's right to  choose, only if she is choosing  to terminate a                                                               
pregnancy. Those  restrictions are not  placed on a woman  who is                                                               
carrying her pregnancy to term.  Carrying a pregnancy to term may                                                               
be against a doctor's advice or  pose a health risk, but they are                                                               
not being  sent home to  think it over  for 24 hours  before they                                                               
consent  to  getting prenatal  health  care.  She felt  that  the                                                               
spirit of  the bill is biased  because it is limited  to only one                                                               
surgical procedure,  even though  it is statistically  safer than                                                               
pregnancy and delivery. Women would  receive information that may                                                               
not be relevant to their  particular circumstances and would have                                                               
to go  home and think it  over - the implication  being that they                                                               
might not really know what they are doing.                                                                                      
She would defer  to doctors on this point, but  she has been told                                                               
that the definition  of gestational age on page 3,  lines 30 - 31                                                               
is  medically  questionable.  Also,  on lines  9  -  10  language                                                               
discussing  a  fetus' survival  at  various  gestational ages  is                                                               
something  people in  the medical  field do  not agree  upon. She                                                               
thought it  would be  difficult to  come up  with language  for a                                                               
website on the issue.                                                                                                           
The waiting  period in SB  30 is a  burden that is  being imposed                                                               
only on women exercising their  right to choose in one particular                                                               
manner with  which the sponsor of  the bill disagrees. It  is not                                                               
imposed on  any one having  another surgical procedure.  She felt                                                               
that abortion is being singled out for particular restrictions.                                                                 
Planned  Parenthood v.  Casey  established  minimal standards  of                                                               
what  the government  cannot  do in  terms  of restricting  civil                                                               
liberties, but  it doesn't  set the ceiling.  States can  go even                                                               
farther in protecting individual  rights from being restricted by                                                               
the  government. Most  states  do go  farther  in many  different                                                               
The Alaska  Constitution has a right  to privacy and only  six or                                                               
seven other states have that.  The Alaska Supreme Court has found                                                               
that the  right to privacy  protects a woman's  fundamental right                                                               
to make health care decision  concerning her reproductive system.                                                               
There is  also an  equal protection issue  here, too,  because if                                                               
you have  two similarly pregnant women,  one does not have  to be                                                               
subject  to a  waiting period  before she  can be  given informed                                                               
consent medical care.  The other woman, who  chooses to terminate                                                               
her  pregnancy has  to  wait  24-hours or  more  before she  gets                                                               
medical   treatment.  The   state  has   to  show   a  compelling                                                               
governmental interest in treating them differently.                                                                             
DR. CAROLYN  BROWN said  she already faxed  her testimony  to the                                                               
committee.  She said  SB 30  will in  no way  provide appropriate                                                               
information and services available  to pregnant women as outlined                                                               
in  the   bill  nor  will   it  provide  access   to  appropriate                                                               
information for  pregnant women or  providers who have  no access                                                               
to the  Internet and no  computer services.  It is not  known who                                                               
will  elect to  have an  abortion beforehand  and only  after the                                                               
decision is made, is a  woman subject to the required information                                                               
and  24-hour waiting  period. She  viewed this  as an  attempt by                                                               
ultra conservatives to have a  state funded program promote their                                                               
own reproductive agenda.  Further, she said, the  fiscal note for                                                               
providing the  information is incomplete and  the requirement for                                                               
informed consent  is already obtained  from within the  Bureau of                                                               
Vital  Statistics. So,  that is  another waste  of state  general                                                               
fund resources.                                                                                                                 
SENATOR  OGAN asked  if she  felt that  retaining a  copy in  the                                                               
physician's file is incorrect and that it is the patient's file.                                                                
DR. BROWN replied that was her belief.                                                                                          
SENATOR OGAN  said he  would probably  introduce an  amendment to                                                               
correct that language.                                                                                                          
MS.  DEBBIE  JOSLIN  used  an   analogy  of  her  husband  having                                                               
cataracts and declining to have  surgery as an example of another                                                               
procedure that required informed consent.                                                                                       
TAPE 03-36, SIDE A                                                                                                            
CHAIR SEEKINS closed the public testimony.                                                                                      
SENATOR   OGAN  motioned   to  adopt   an  amendment   to  delete                                                               
"physician's"  and  insert "patient's"  on  page  6, line  1.  He                                                               
explained  that  a patient's  files  are  kept in  a  physician's                                                               
office. There was no objection and it was so ordered.                                                                           
SENATOR  OGAN motioned  to pass  CSSB 30(JUD)  with the  attached                                                               
fiscal notes  from committee with individual  recommendations and                                                               
asked for  unanimous consent. There  was no objection and  it was                                                               
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
CHAIR SEEKINS adjourned the meeting at 10:48 p.m.                                                                               

Document Name Date/Time Subjects