Legislature(1999 - 2000)

04/05/2000 01:56 PM JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                   SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE                                                                                 
                          April 5, 2000                                                                                         
                            1:56 p.m.                                                                                           
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
Senator Robin Taylor, Chairman                                                                                                  
Senator Rick Halford, Vice-Chairman                                                                                             
Senator Dave Donley                                                                                                             
Senator Johnny Ellis                                                                                                            
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
Senator John Torgerson                                                                                                          
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
SENATE BILL NO. 300                                                                                                             
"An  Act  relating  to  services   and  information  available  to                                                              
pregnant women  and other persons; and requiring  informed consent                                                              
and a 24-hour  waiting period before an abortion  may be performed                                                              
unless there is a medical emergency."                                                                                           
     -MOVED CSSB 300(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                      
CS FOR SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 275(JUD)                                                                           
"An Act  relating to  the Uniform  Probate Code, including  trusts                                                              
and  governing  instruments;  relating to  trustees;  relating  to                                                              
under productive  trust property;  and relating to  conveyances of                                                              
real property and interests in real property by or to trusts."                                                                  
     -MOVED CSSSHB 275(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                    
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 318(JUD)                                                                                                  
"An  Act  relating   to  property  disposal  by   law  enforcement                                                              
     -MOVED CSHB 318(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                      
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                              
SB 300 - No previous action to report.                                                                                          
HB 275 - See Judiciary minutes dated 3/22/00.                                                                                   
HB 318 - No previous action to report.                                                                                          
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
Mr. Mike Pauley                                                                                                                 
Staff to Senator Leman                                                                                                          
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:      Testified on SB 300                                                                                  
Dr. Peter Nakamura                                                                                                              
Department of Health and Social Services                                                                                        
PO Box 110601                                                                                                                   
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0601                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:      Opposes SB 300                                                                                       
Ms. Kirsten Bomengen                                                                                                            
Assistant Attorney General                                                                                                      
Department of Law                                                                                                               
PO Box 110300                                                                                                                   
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:      Opposes SB 300                                                                                       
Ms. Caren Robinson                                                                                                              
Alaska Women's Lobby                                                                                                            
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:      Opposes SB 300                                                                                       
Mrs. Debbie Joslin                                                                                                              
Delta Junction, Alaska 99737                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT:      Supports SB 300                                                                                      
Ms. Regina Manteufel                                                                                                            
1128 East 10th Avenue                                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska 99501                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:      Opposes SB 300                                                                                       
Ms. Anne Harrison                                                                                                               
3270 Rosie Creek Road                                                                                                           
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:      Opposes SB 300                                                                                       
Ms. Donna Rae Faulkner                                                                                                          
PO Box 2742                                                                                                                     
Homer, Alaska 99709                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT:      Opposes SB 300                                                                                       
Ms. Robin Smith                                                                                                                 
14100 Jarvi                                                                                                                     
Anchorage, Alaska 99515                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:      Opposes SB 300                                                                                       
Ms. Jennifer Rudinger                                                                                                           
PO Box 201844                                                                                                                   
Anchorage, Alaska 99520                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:      Opposes SB 300                                                                                       
Dr. Whitefield                                                                                                                  
No address furnished                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:      Opposes SB 300                                                                                       
Ms. Rose Medeiros                                                                                                               
No address furnished                                                                                                            
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:      Testified on SB 300                                                                                  
Ms. Leila Wise                                                                                                                  
PO Box 244034                                                                                                                   
Anchorage, Alaska 99524                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:      Opposes SB 300                                                                                       
Ms. Amy Bollenbach                                                                                                              
PO Box 3429                                                                                                                     
Homer, Alaska 99603                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT:      Opposes SB 300                                                                                       
Representative Con Bunde                                                                                                        
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:      Sponsor of HB 318                                                                                    
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
TAPE 00-19, SIDE A                                                                                                            
Number 001                                                                                                                      
CHAIRMAN  ROBIN  TAYLOR  called  the  Senate  Judiciary  Committee                                                            
meeting  to  order at  1:56  p.m.   Present  were  SENATOR  ELLIS,                                                              
SENATOR HALFORD and CHAIRMAN TAYLOR.   The first order of business                                                              
to come before the committee was SB 300.                                                                                        
          SB 300-INFO AND INFORMED CONSENT FOR ABORTION                                                                     
SENATOR HALFORD  stated that he introduced  SB 300 as  a companion                                                              
bill  to  HB  329  but, because  it  was  past  the  deadline  for                                                              
submitting  personal bills,  SB 300  was submitted  by the  Senate                                                              
Resources Committee.                                                                                                            
MR.  MIKE PAULEY,  staff to  Senator Leman,  said that  SB 300  is                                                              
similar  to HB  329.   It requires  Alaska  physicians to  provide                                                              
women seeking an  elected abortion with information  regarding the                                                              
potential physical  and psychological  risks of the  procedure, as                                                              
well as information about the alternatives  to abortion.  The U.S.                                                              
Supreme Court noted  in H.L. v Matheson in 1981  that the medical,                                                              
emotional and  psychological consequences of abortion  are serious                                                              
and can be lasting.                                                                                                             
MR.  PAULEY  said,  with  regard to  informed  consent,  the  U.S.                                                              
Supreme Court  observed in Planned  Parenthood v Danforth  in 1976                                                              
that a decision  to have an abortion is "an important  and often a                                                              
stressful one, and it is desirable  and imperative that it be made                                                              
with full knowledge of it's nature  and the consequences."  Alaska                                                              
regulation  requires  that  physicians   advise  patients  seeking                                                              
abortions of the "medical implications  and possible emotional and                                                              
physical sequela  of the procedure."   However, Alaska's  informed                                                              
consent provision lags behind other  states because it exists only                                                              
in regulation and  not in statute.  It also  lacks specificity and                                                              
is not  uniform in  its application.   More  than 25 other  states                                                              
have  laws  requiring   informed  consent  before   abortions  are                                                              
performed.   States with some  of the most comprehensive  informed                                                              
consent  statutes  include Indiana,  Kansas,  Kentucky,  Michigan,                                                              
Mississippi,  Nebraska, North  Dakota,  Ohio, Pennsylvania,  South                                                              
Dakota, Utah and Wisconsin.                                                                                                     
MR.  PAULEY  said  SB  300  will   elevate  the  informed  consent                                                              
requirement from  regulation to statute,  and it will  require the                                                              
Department  of Health  and  Social Services  (DHSS)  to develop  a                                                              
standard   information  brochure   which   physicians  will   make                                                              
available to  women considering  an abortion.   The brochure  will                                                              
include information  on public and  private agencies  that provide                                                              
services to  assist pregnant  women, including adoption  services.                                                              
The brochure  will include  objective information and  photographs                                                              
depicting the  anatomical and  physiological characteristics  of a                                                              
typical  unborn child  at two  week gestational  increments.   The                                                              
brochure  will also describe  specific potential  health  risks of                                                              
abortion including  infection, hemorrhage,  breast cancer,  danger                                                              
to subsequent pregnancies and infertility.                                                                                      
Number 310                                                                                                                      
DR.  PETER NAKAMURA,  DHSS, stated  that,  as a  physician for  39                                                              
years and  an administrator  for three  of those  years, he  has a                                                              
high level of discomfort  with SB 300.  One of  his major concerns                                                              
is that  the bill attempts  to define terms,  not on the  basis of                                                              
medical  or surgical  necessity or  even  logic, but  in terms  of                                                              
meeting  a  philosophical  need.    The  bill  is  an  attempt  to                                                              
determine how the  medical profession will intervene  in the issue                                                              
of  abortion.     Definitions  of  "conception,"  "fertilization,"                                                              
"pregnancy," "gestation"  and "unborn child" are critical.   In SB
300 a pregnancy  means the fusion of an egg and a  sperm - that is                                                              
not a pregnancy.  A pregnancy starts  when an ovum and sperm begin                                                              
to develop  and actually implant  in the body, causing  a reaction                                                              
that triggers  hormone production.   Changing definitions  to meet                                                              
philosophical  needs  frightens   people  who  deal  with  medical                                                              
DR.  NAKAMURA  said  the  language   of  SB  300  also  gives  the                                                              
impression that physicians do not  give informed consent - this is                                                              
untrue.  Physicians, for legal reasons  and for health reasons, do                                                              
give informed  consent information.   Another problem is  that the                                                              
bill  has the  tendency  to direct  the  kind  of information  the                                                              
provider  will  give.    By  not   including  information  on  the                                                              
complications of taking  a pregnancy to term or  the complications                                                              
of an illegal abortion, SB 300 is  not requiring full information.                                                              
DR. NAKAMURA said there is also the  issue of requiring a woman to                                                              
wait 24 hours after  signing a consent form.  Experience  shows  a                                                              
53 percent  increase in second term  abortions after this  type of                                                              
restriction is  applied and complications arise  significantly the                                                              
longer a woman waits.                                                                                                           
DR. NAKAMURA said there is also language  in the bill that gives a                                                              
false   impression    about   the   complications    of   surgical                                                              
intervention.   SB 300 suggests there  may be an  increased cancer                                                              
risk,   increased   fertilization    and   a   number   of   other                                                              
complications,  which is not  true.  There  are many  studies that                                                              
demonstrate  that complications  are no  greater without  surgical                                                              
intervention than with surgical intervention.                                                                                   
As a  state health  officer and  the director  of the Division  of                                                              
Public  Health,  DR. NAKAMURA  strongly  objected  to SB  300  and                                                              
recommended that it not go any further.                                                                                         
MS.  KIRSTEN   BOMENGEN,  Assistant  Attorney  General   with  the                                                              
Department  of Law (DOL),  said that  a previous testifier  stated                                                              
the requirements  in SB 300 are  similar to those in  other states                                                              
and those requirements  have withstood legal challenge.   However,                                                              
DOL  believes the  requirements in  SB  300 will  not withstand  a                                                              
legal challenge  in Alaska  because the  Alaska Supreme  Court has                                                              
different standards.   The 1997 Valley Hospital  v Matsu Coalition                                                              
case established  that any restraints  on abortion will  be tested                                                              
by  viewing abortion  as  a fundamental  right  and  will only  be                                                              
constrained   when it  is legally  justified.   DOL believes  that                                                              
some of the provisions  in SB 300 will not withstand  this kind of                                                              
scrutiny because they will be viewed  as employing excessive means                                                              
to  accomplish  the ends  of  assuring  that  a patient  is  given                                                              
informed medical consent before receiving an abortion.                                                                          
MS.  BOMENGEN said,  with  regard to  the  brochure, section  1(3)                                                              
reads, "states  that a person may  not lawfully coerce a  woman to                                                              
undergo  an  abortion;."     This  statement,  in itself,  is  not                                                              
legally accurate.  There are many  ways to apply coercive pressure                                                              
to a woman,  and there is no  law against a person acting  in this                                                              
manner.   DOL  urges that  this subsection  be  rewritten so  that                                                              
medical providers  can place information  in the brochure  that is                                                              
accurate and will not be subject to this type of scrutiny.                                                                      
MS. BOMENGEN noted that section 1(5) reads,                                                                                     
     states that  the father of a  child is liable  to assist                                                                   
     in the support of the child  even in instances where the                                                                   
     father has offered to pay for  an abortion, and that the                                                                   
     law permits  adoptive parents  to pay costs  of prenatal                                                                   
     care, childbirth, and neonatal care;.                                                                                      
This  wording may  mislead a  woman  into believing  that she  can                                                              
actually  obtain that  support.   This  section  should contain  a                                                              
provision  that addresses  the  need  for a  woman  to take  legal                                                              
action  in  order  to  gain this  support,  and  there  should  be                                                              
something that addresses the frequency  with which  support is not                                                              
MS.  BOMENGEN   said  section  1(B)(b)  reads,   "The  information                                                              
required  under (a)  of this  section  must be  written in  easily                                                              
comprehensible language and must  be printed in a typeface that is                                                              
large enough  to be  clearly legible."   This subsection  does not                                                              
sufficiently address people who have  limited English proficiency.                                                              
The Departments of Health and Social  Services in many states have                                                              
been coming under  scrutiny for providing information  where other                                                              
languages are spoken.                                                                                                           
MS. BOMENGEN noted the definitions  that appear in section 1(B)(d)                                                              
and  in section  4(c) are  not medically  accurate.   They  create                                                              
confusion  and  this confusion  is  addressed  in the  context  of                                                              
section  2.     Section  2(a)(5)  requires  that   the  applicable                                                              
requirements  of  AS  18.16.060  have  been  satisfied,  and  this                                                              
involves  the 24-hour  waiting  period before  any  action may  be                                                              
initiated  by a doctor  to address  the request  for an  abortion.                                                              
This  subsection  needs  to  be   read  in  conjunction  with  the                                                              
definition  of abortion  in AS  18.16.090. In  this provision,  an                                                              
abortion is the use or prescription  of an instrument, medicine or                                                              
drug or other substance or device  to terminate the pregnancy of a                                                              
woman known  to be pregnant.   The definition of conception  in SB
300, the mere fusion  of a human sperm and ovum,  can be construed                                                              
with  the other  definitions  to  impose  a prohibition  upon  the                                                              
administration  of emergency  contraception.   It should  be clear                                                              
that  emergency   contraception  will  not  be   counter  to  this                                                              
provision  because   it  will  most  certainly  be   found  to  be                                                              
unconstitutional since  emergency contraception is  only effective                                                              
in the first 24 hours - when the  waiting period is being imposed.                                                              
MS.  BOMENGEN said  section  3  imposes physician  liability  that                                                              
includes both compensatory and punitive  damages without any limit                                                              
on  what the  damages might  be.   Looking at  other states,  this                                                              
seems  to  have had  a  chilling  effect  on the  availability  of                                                              
abortions.  The indefinite level  of damages needs to be examined.                                                              
MS.  BOMENGEN  stated the  24-hour  waiting  period in  section  4                                                              
presents  problems   regarding  equal   protection  and   privacy.                                                              
Abortion is  a medical procedure  sought only  by women and  it is                                                              
the only  medical procedure in which  a 24-hour delay  is imposed.                                                              
As a matter of  law, if SB 300 is enacted, the  intrusion into the                                                              
physician-patient  relationship for this  sole procedure  may fail                                                              
to meet a constitutional challenge.                                                                                             
MS.  BOMENGEN added  that  for rural  Alaskan  women, the  24-hour                                                              
delay could  be viewed  as imposing  unnecessary  costs.  It  will                                                              
place a burden  on them that will  not meet the test  of being the                                                              
least restrictive  means of assuring  a woman is informed  and has                                                              
given her consent.                                                                                                              
MS. BOMENGEN  noted that section  4(b)(1) says, "(F)  that medical                                                              
assistance   benefits  may   be  available   for  prenatal   care,                                                              
childbirth, and neonatal  care; and (G) that the  father is liable                                                              
to assist in  the support of the woman's child,  even in instances                                                              
where the  father has offered  to pay for  the abortion."    For a                                                              
woman who is  pregnant as the result of rape  or incest, requiring                                                              
a  doctor to  say  that the  rapist  can be  held  liable for  the                                                              
support of the  child can be seen to cause psychological  harm and                                                              
to not serve a medical purpose.   An amendment has been made to HB
329 that  addresses  this issue,  which allows  the doctor  to use                                                              
discretion  in whether  to raise  this particular  issue.   It was                                                              
also determined  that some psychological  harm can be caused  by a                                                              
physician  spending time  addressing  medical assistance  benefits                                                              
with parents whose  unborn child has been diagnosed  with a lethal                                                              
fetal anomaly.   These issues  should be  addressed in a  way that                                                              
will give  some discretion to a  physician who has to  impart this                                                              
Number 1207                                                                                                                     
Ms. Bomengen  also called  attention to section  4(3), "a  copy of                                                              
the  information  described in (2)(A) of this  subsection has been                                                              
given  to  the  woman;  and."   This  subsection  means  that  the                                                              
information does not  have to be provided 24 hours  in advance but                                                              
it  requires  the  pamphlet  be  given  to the  woman.    In  some                                                              
instances, this will have to happen  whether the woman wants it or                                                              
not.  This can also be considered to do psychological harm.                                                                     
MS.  BOMENGEN  addressed  section  4(c)(3),  "'medical  emergency'                                                              
means  a condition  that, on  the  basis of  the physician's  good                                                              
faith clinical  judgment, so complicates the medical  condition of                                                              
a  pregnant woman  that  the immediate  termination  of a  woman's                                                              
pregnancy is necessary to avert the  woman's death or that a delay                                                              
in providing an  abortion will create serious  risk of substantial                                                              
and  irreversible impairment  of a  major bodily  function of  the                                                              
woman;."    Because  this  section   does  not  address  potential                                                              
psychological   harm,  DOL   believes  it   will  be  subject   to                                                              
constitutional problems.                                                                                                        
Number 1333                                                                                                                     
MS. CAREN ROBINSON,  Alaska Women's Lobby (AWL),  stated the Lobby                                                              
has a membership  of about 1,000  men and women across  the state.                                                              
It was established  in 1983 and  its purpose is to  preserve hard-                                                              
won statutory and  budgetary gains for women and  children of this                                                              
MS. ROBINSON made the following statement:                                                                                      
     Inserting a political  directive in a medical  decision is an                                                              
     intrusion of  privacy of the  worst kind.  No  other surgical                                                              
     procedure involves the Alaska  legislature insinuating itself                                                              
     between  the patient  and the  doctor  to determine  informed                                                              
     Will the  legislature concurrently  require women  who decide                                                              
     to take a pregnancy to term  to be educated about the hazards                                                              
     and costs  of parenthood and  counseled about the  options of                                                              
     abortion?  AWL  thinks not, for the same  reason--one's right                                                              
     to  privacy.   Or  will the  legislature  require  a man  who                                                              
     wishes to  have a vasectomy  be reminded of  the consequences                                                              
     of his actions and require him  to wait to make sure he knows                                                              
     what he  is doing?   Again,  it is a  right, not a  privilege                                                              
     that the legislature can make optional at its desire.                                                                      
     In  1983  the  U.  S.  Supreme  Court  struck  down  a  local                                                              
     ordinance  from Akron,  Ohio  that required  doctors to  give                                                              
     patients  seeking  abortions   anti-abortion  literature  and                                                              
     impose  a 24  hour waiting  period.   AWL  suspects that  the                                                              
     Alaska Supreme Court will come  to a similar conclusion about                                                              
     this bill if it is to become law.                                                                                          
Number 1465                                                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN   TAYLOR  commented   that  the   main  thrust   of  this                                                              
legislation is  informed consent  and Ms. Robinson's  testimony is                                                              
in opposition to informed consent.                                                                                              
MS. ROBINSON  said that it is  important that people  advocate for                                                              
themselves and work with their doctors  to get as much information                                                              
as they  can on any  medical procedure.   AWL is against  informed                                                              
consent being inserted by the legislature, by law.                                                                              
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented that the  legislature passed a licensure                                                              
bill  on tattooing  and body  piercing, and  with the  bill was  a                                                              
provision  for informed  consent  that  said a  parent  had to  be                                                              
informed and a consent form had to  be signed before the procedure                                                              
could be done.  Where was the Women's Lobby on this legislation?                                                                
MS.  ROBINSON  responded  she  was   not  asked  to  monitor  that                                                              
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said, "Then it's  okay to get parental consent for                                                              
body piercing  but it's wrong to  ask for parental consent  for an                                                              
abortion procedure?"                                                                                                            
MS.  ROBINSON responded  that because  she  has not  read or  paid                                                              
attention to this legislation she cannot speak to it.                                                                           
SENATOR ELLIS asked if SB 300 speaks to parental consent.                                                                       
CHAIRMAN  TAYLOR  responded yes,  it  refers  to existing  law  on                                                              
parental consent.                                                                                                               
Number 1580                                                                                                                     
MS.  DEBBIE  JOSLIN,  representing  herself,  said  she  has  been                                                              
appointed to  be an expert on  this subject, she is  not willingly                                                              
doing this  or testifying by her  choice, but she is an  expert on                                                              
the subject.  Ms. Joslin made the following statement:                                                                          
     On January  15, 1999, I was  22 weeks pregnant when  we drove                                                              
     to  Fairbanks  for an  ultrasound  on  our  child.   After  a                                                              
     lengthy  examination  of  the   baby,  I  was  told  we  were                                                              
     expecting a male child with  multiple anomalies.  The baby we                                                              
     named Isaiah John had a brain  cyst, a missing or unconnected                                                              
     stomach  and a  hypoplastic left  heart.   We were given  the                                                              
     name of  a Perinatologist in  Anchorage,.  A  perinatologist,                                                              
     as I  understand it,  is a doctor  who specializes  in unborn                                                              
     babies  who have serious  health complications.   I  spoke to                                                              
     this specialist  over the phone  and made arrangements  to go                                                              
     to Anchorage and have another  ultrasound.  During that phone                                                              
     conversation she  urged me to have the  pregnancy terminated.                                                              
     The reasons she listed were  that the baby would probably die                                                              
     anyway, the medical  expenses would be too great  and that my                                                              
     own life was  probably in danger.  Keep in mind,  she had not                                                              
     examined me at  this point.  I made an  appointment with this                                                              
     doctor, since I  was told she was the only  perinatologist in                                                              
     the state.   My husband  and I drove  350 miles to  keep that                                                              
     appointment,  leaving  Delta  at  40  below zero.    When  we                                                              
     arrived for our appointment  we first saw a genetic counselor                                                              
     who went over some family history  with us and explained that                                                              
     they   thought  Isaiah   had   Trisomy   18,  a   chromosomal                                                              
     abnormality (an  extra number 18 chromosome).   She expressed                                                              
     surprise  that  we  were  not   considering  terminating  the                                                              
     pregnancy  and  asked  several  times whether  we  wanted  to                                                              
     consider terminating  the pregnancy.  Another  ultrasound was                                                              
     performed by  a technician and  then the perinatologist  took                                                              
     over  the exam  and listed  the following  anomalies:   Brain                                                              
     cyst,  missing  or  unconnected   stomach,  hypoplastic  left                                                              
     heart,  eyes   not  properly  spaced,   underdeveloped  chin,                                                              
     something  wrong  with spinal  development,  something  wrong                                                              
     with his  penis, rocker  bottom feet,  possibly an  extra toe                                                              
     and fluid  in the abdominal cavity  and lungs.  We  were told                                                              
     the  fluid indicated  that Isaiah was  already in  congestive                                                              
     heart  failure and that  he would  never make  it to  his due                                                              
     date  in May.   We were  also told  that all Trisomy  infants                                                              
     were severely mentally retarded.   The perinatologist told us                                                              
     that Isaiah  would never  respond to us  if he were  to live.                                                              
     She described  a somewhat vegetative state  but more probably                                                              
     he would be  stillborn any day.  She said that  if he were to                                                              
     be born alive  he would only live for a few  hours or maybe a                                                              
     day  at most.   We agreed  to an  amniocentesis to  determine                                                              
     whether Isaiah  did actually have  Trisomy 18.  Our  hope was                                                              
     that  he would  not, and  we could  begin to  make plans  for                                                              
     heart  surgery.   She told  us  doctors will  not operate  on                                                              
     Trisomy infants since they ALL die in infancy anyway.                                                                      
     You can imagine what heavy hearts  we had as we drove back to                                                              
     Delta.   The  plans and  dreams  I had  had for  my son  were                                                              
     shelved as  we instead discussed  his funeral.  Within  a few                                                              
     days  I  got a  call  from  the genetic  counselor  with  the                                                              
     preliminary test results which  showed Isaiah had Trisomy 13.                                                              
     I asked  how that differed  from Trisomy  18 and she  said it                                                              
     was worse.  She asked again  about termination and I told her                                                              
     again  that   we  were  not  interested  in   that.    Almost                                                              
     immediately  I got  a call from  my doctor  in Fairbanks  who                                                              
     asked me  about termination.  I  told here (again)  I was not                                                              
     interested in  that.  She told  me that since my life  was in                                                              
     danger and I  had chosen to continue with  the pregnancy, she                                                              
     could  no  longer   be  my  doctor  as  she   was  a  general                                                              
     practitioner  and not  qualified to  handle such  a case.   I                                                              
     began seeing the  osteopath doctor in Delta and  an OB/GYN in                                                              
     Fairbanks.  I  told them what I had been told  about the baby                                                              
     and about my own health.  The  OB/GYN doctor told me he could                                                              
     not understand  why I  had been told  my life was  in danger.                                                              
     He treated  me during  the remainder of  the pregnancy  and I                                                              
     never  had any  complications or  problems.   Only the  usual                                                              
     complaints pregnant women suffer from.                                                                                     
     A couple of weeks after the  preliminary results, the genetic                                                              
     counselor  called  with  the   final  results  from  Isaiah's                                                              
     amniocentesis.   It was final -  Isaiah had Trisomy  13.  She                                                              
     asked me again about termination  and I told her no again.  I                                                              
     then asked  her out of curiosity  what she would do  if I did                                                              
     say yes.   She got  very excited and  told me that  "there is                                                              
     the most wonderful  clinic in Kansas."  I asked  if she meant                                                              
     Tiller's and  she said "yes, do  you know him?"  "No,  I told                                                              
     her, but I know about him."   She offered to have other women                                                              
     who had had  abortions call me but I declined.   Sensing that                                                              
     I was  not interested in pursuing  this any further  she told                                                              
     me  in  a very  apologetic  voice  that  "there is  a  parent                                                              
     support group,  but well ... they are rather  positive."  She                                                              
     made it sound as though positive  was a bad thing to be.  She                                                              
     then  went on  to tell  me that  she had  information on  the                                                              
     group including an 800 number  as well as pamphlets and books                                                              
     in her  office that gave  detailed information  about Trisomy                                                              
     18, 13  and related disorders  including pictures.   I called                                                              
     S.O.F.T.  (Support  Organization   for  Trisomy  18,  13  and                                                              
     Related  Disorders)  right  away  and found  that  they  were                                                              
     indeed positive  - but realistic.  I told the  woman over the                                                              
     phone about Isaiah's diagnosis  and she told me that probably                                                              
     they were  right but there was  a chance he could  live.  She                                                              
     talked to me about the other  "parents" and I remember asking                                                              
     her,  "parents, you  mean they  have children?"   "Yes,  some                                                              
     did," she said.  "How old?"   I was told that they varied but                                                              
     there  were a  few children  who  were teenagers  and even  a                                                              
     couple  of adults.   The lady  took my  name and address  and                                                              
     told me  she would  send me  a family packet  right away.   I                                                              
     also requested  the books they had available:   Trisomy 13, a                                                            
     Guideline  for Families  and Care  of the  Infant, and  Child                                                          
     with Trisomy  18 or 13.    These  were the books  the genetic                                                            
     counselor  had  described,  the  very  ones she  had  in  her                                                              
     office.   While the  information was  heartbreaking,  it also                                                              
     offered some  hope and some  help--two things we had  not had                                                              
     much  of.  Not  only did  some of  these children live,  they                                                              
     played and smiled  and laughed and talked  and learned things                                                              
     and showed affection and responded to love and affection.                                                                  
     We located  a wonderful pediatrician in Fairbanks  who agreed                                                              
     that Isaiah's  chances were not  good but she was  willing to                                                              
     do what she could to help him.   We made the decision to hire                                                              
     her,  and  then  we  made  plans   to  deliver  our  baby  in                                                              
     Fairbanks.   On May  10, only  11 days  before his  due date,                                                              
     Isaiah John  Joslin was born at Fairbanks  Memorial Hospital.                                                              
     He weighed six  pounds one ounce and was 18  1/4 inches long.                                                              
     Isaiah  was a  pretty  baby  with lots  of  bright red  hair.                                                              
     Isaiah had difficulty  breathing when first born,  but as the                                                              
     doctors and nurses  checked him over they could  find no sign                                                              
     of  the  problems   seen  earlier  on  the   three  different                                                              
     ultrasounds.      The  brain   cyst,   stomach  problem   and                                                              
     hypoplastic heart were all missing,  as were all of the other                                                              
     problems  earlier noted.   However,  Isaiah  suffered from  a                                                              
     ventricular  septal  defect  (VSD),  a  hole  in  his  heart.                                                              
     Although very serious, it was  a far cry from the problems he                                                              
     had  earlier.   Isaiah required  oxygen and  a nasal  gastric                                                              
     tube for feeding.   Because of the hole in his  heart, he was                                                              
     too weak  to nurse  and had to  be fed with  a tube.   Isaiah                                                              
     looked  so  normal that  even  the  nursing staff  agreed  we                                                              
     should retest him.  Test results  again showed Isaiah to have                                                              
     Trisomy 13.   He stayed in the hospital for  12 days and then                                                              
     came home where  we cared for him for 20 days  before he left                                                              
     us to go to  be with the Lord in heaven.   Those were some of                                                              
     the hardest but sweetest days of my life.                                                                                  
     I am  telling you  this story  so you  will understand  why I                                                              
     stand before you today and ask that you pass SB 300.                                                                       
     After  talking to  other doctors  and doing  a great deal  of                                                              
     research and reading about Trisomy  infants and because of my                                                              
     own personal experience,  I believe my life was  never in any                                                              
     danger.   Yet, this undue burden  was placed on me  at a time                                                              
     when I already had plenty to worry about.                                                                                  
     I was  told that all  trisomy infants die.   I now  know that                                                              
     somewhere  between  90 and  95% of  all  trisomy infants  die                                                              
     before one  year of age.  That  does not leave much  room for                                                              
     hope I  realize, but it is  quite different than  saying they                                                              
     all die.                                                                                                                   
     I was  not told about the  parent support group for  over two                                                              
     weeks.   Well, you may  say they were  not sure my  child had                                                              
     Trisomy until the  final results were in.   Perhaps, but they                                                              
     were   sure  enough   that   they  continually   brought   up                                                              
     termination.   I drove  350 miles to  see the doctor  and was                                                              
     never  shown the  written  information  about this  disorder,                                                              
     that they had right there.                                                                                                 
     Though  they were  careful to  tell me  every negative  thing                                                              
     they could  about the baby,  I was never  told of any  of the                                                              
     risks of  having an  abortion.  There  was never  any mention                                                              
     made of the risk to my health,  either physical or emotional.                                                              
     I believe  the doctors who repeatedly brought  up termination                                                              
     probably  meant  well.    The problem  comes  in  where  they                                                              
     apparently believed that their  professional status, or their                                                              
     medical  degrees placed  them in  a position  to know  better                                                              
     than me  what was best  for me,  my family and  my baby--that                                                              
     simply was not true.                                                                                                       
     Giving life to  Isaiah was hard on our family  but it was not                                                              
     too hard.   It was  expensive but  it was not  too expensive.                                                              
     It was  hard on the other children  but it was not  too hard.                                                              
     Giving  life  to Isaiah  blessed  our family,  including  the                                                              
     other children.   Because of his heart condition,  Isaiah was                                                              
     always lethargic,  sleepy and tired-acting, but  he was never                                                              
     in  pain.     The  equipment,  which  monitored   his  oxygen                                                              
     saturation rate,  showed that whenever we held  him or showed                                                              
     affection  to him, Isaiah  was aware of  it.  His  saturation                                                              
     levels would  soar when he was  being loved on.   There seems                                                              
     to be a feeling out there that  a successful life is one that                                                              
     is free  from pain  or suffering or  trials, and that  is not                                                              
     true.   Isaiah's life  was successful.   We loved him  and he                                                              
     loved us.                                                                                                                  
     Of course,  I would  like for every  mother to make  the same                                                              
     decision  I did  but I  realize that  will not  happen.   But                                                              
     every  mother  deserves  to   have  all  of  the  information                                                              
     pertinent  to   her  situation  so  that  she   can  make  an                                                              
     intelligent informed decision.   I stand before you today and                                                              
     say  that if  you  vote against  SB 300  you  are saying,  in                                                              
     effect,  that women are  not competent  enough to  be trusted                                                              
     with the facts  regarding the health of their  own bodies and                                                              
     that of their unborn children.   A no vote says that you have                                                              
     no  compassion  for families  and  believe  that doctors  are                                                              
     better suited  to make decisions  for women and  their unborn                                                              
     A yes  vote for SB 300  sends an entirely  different message.                                                              
     A vote  for informed consent  says that you have  respect for                                                              
     the intelligence  of a women  and believe that they  have the                                                              
     right to  be trusted with  the information necessary  to make                                                              
     decisions for  themselves.  I  trust and hope that  this body                                                              
     of  legislators  will prove  themselves  to  be in  favor  of                                                              
     women's rights.                                                                                                            
Number 2177                                                                                                                     
MS. REGINA  MANTEUFEL, speaking  on her own  behalf, said  that in                                                              
regard  to section  1 of  SB 300,  she  called the  Right to  Life                                                              
Coalition and said she was a pregnant  woman who needed a place to                                                              
stay.   She was  told that  they had  homes for  teenagers but  no                                                              
place  for older  women.    She said  it  is frustrating  for  her                                                              
because at the  Fairview Compass meeting about a  year ago she had                                                              
a woman beg her  to help build a place to house  women with babies                                                              
because there were not enough beds at pregnancy shelters.                                                                       
MS.  MANTEUFEL said  section 6  does  not make  sense because  she                                                              
deals  with pregnant  women  and  women who  have  babies.   Costs                                                              
associated with  raising a child need  to be discussed.   There is                                                              
not  enough  of a  support  network  with  the agencies  that  are                                                              
available  to take  care of  babies.   There  is not  enough of  a                                                              
network of  people to  collect money  from dead  beat fathers.   A                                                              
woman from rural  Alaska cannot afford hotel rates  when coming to                                                              
town  for  a  medical  appointment,  and  then  wait  through  the                                                              
required 24-hour  waiting period.   A woman should have  the right                                                              
to decide what  to do with her  body, regardless of the  amount of                                                              
money she makes.   There would be  fewer abortions if there  was a                                                              
system  that provided  birth control  pills  at a  lower cost  for                                                              
women.  If pamphlets are given out  with pictures of unborn babies                                                              
and  gestation  periods, then  there  should  also be  a  pamphlet                                                              
telling  women what  the  cost of  apartments,  cabs, hotels,  the                                                              
latest  number  on  the  waiting  list  for  section  8  and  what                                                              
litigation fees  will cost  in trying to  recover money  from dead                                                              
beat dads.   The costs should be  listed for having a  baby and of                                                              
raising a child.  Ms. Manteufel stated she is pro-choice.                                                                       
Tape 00-19, Side B                                                                                                            
MS.  ANNE  HARRISON,   a  semi-retired  nurse   practitioner  from                                                              
Fairbanks,  said that Mrs. Joslin's  testimony underlines the need                                                              
for  professional, compassionate  and sensitive  counseling.   She                                                              
suggested that nurses, rather than  physicians, are often the best                                                              
people to provide this.                                                                                                         
MS. HARRISON  said she  is strongly  opposed to  SB 300  and, even                                                              
with  the amendment,  it  is nothing  more  than  a blatant  anti-                                                              
choice, anti-abortion piece of legislation.   By regulation, women                                                              
are  now receiving  professional, unbiased  information about  the                                                              
risks of  pregnancy  and about the  benefits of  the choices  they                                                              
make  in  regard  to  pregnancy.   Ms.  Harrison  asked  that  the                                                              
committee members  listen to and  talk with public  health nurses,                                                              
clinic  and   office  nurses,   nurse  practitioners,   physicians                                                              
assistants and physicians who work  in reproductive health.  These                                                              
people  know the  risk of  pregnancy, abortion  and even  adoption                                                              
based on science, research and experience.   Individuals or groups                                                              
who  have personal  and or  religious  agendas to  promote have  a                                                              
biased mind  set.  Their information  is often based  on one-sided                                                              
information   gleaned  from  very   select  and  often   incorrect                                                              
resources.   "We are a country  based on the separation  of church                                                              
and state,  do not  forget this,  and do not  torment women  at an                                                              
often trying time with this bill of anti-choice bias."                                                                          
Number 2197                                                                                                                     
MS. DONNA  RAE FAULKNER,  representing 12  Homer residents,   said                                                              
she  is against  SB  300.   It  has  been  nearly 30  years  since                                                              
American women  were granted the  right to choose an  abortion for                                                              
an unwanted  pregnancy.  Roe v Wade  was crafted in such  a way to                                                              
make  abortion  legally  possible, accessible  and  practical  and                                                              
since  1971  there have  been  countless  attempts to  erode  this                                                              
right--HB 329 and SB 300 are perfect  examples of this.  This bill                                                              
incorporates  additional  shame, pain  and  guilt  into a  woman's                                                              
decision to have an abortion.                                                                                                   
MS. FAULKNER said the proposal for  a 24-hour waiting period after                                                              
informed  consent seems as  if it  was designed  to place  a woman                                                              
into purgatory while she waits for  a procedure that is allowed by                                                              
law.   Ms.  Faulkner  does not  know of  anyone  who has  casually                                                              
dropped  into  her  physician's office  for  an  abortion  without                                                              
intensive decision making and without  considering it to be a last                                                              
resort.    This  decision  process  is  totally  disrespected  and                                                              
disregarded by SB 300.                                                                                                          
MS.  FAULKNER  stated  it is  additionally  disrespectful  to  use                                                              
propaganda  tactics  such  as  forcing  women to  view  and  study                                                              
various anatomical and physiological  characteristics of the fetus                                                              
from conception  on, and then to  sign a statement saying  she has                                                              
done this  before her  abortion can  be performed--more  guilt and                                                              
MS. FAULKNER said  the bill also requires women  to understand the                                                              
various  abortion procedures.   Will this  include information  on                                                              
later  term abortions  that may  not  even be  applicable to  that                                                              
woman?  Informed  consent as proposed in SB 300 goes  far beyond a                                                              
woman  being  educated  about  the   procedure  she  is  about  to                                                              
undertake and the medical risks involved.                                                                                       
MS. FAULKNER commented  that SB 300 proposes that  women should be                                                              
given lists  of resources  available that can  help her  carry her                                                              
child to term,  and to inform the father of  his responsibilities.                                                              
If  the  state's  goal  is  to restrict  a  woman's  right  to  an                                                              
abortion, then one  is to assume that it wants  all pregnancies to                                                              
be carried  to term, but  where is the help  with the rest  of the                                                              
child's parenting?  This bill is  likely to decrease the number of                                                              
abortions  but  it  will  not  decrease  the  number  of  unwanted                                                              
MS.  FAULKNER  said Alaska  women  have  the  right to  choose  an                                                              
abortion  just like  all  American  women, and  the  state has  no                                                              
business  trying to  hurt  a woman  who  has made  this  difficult                                                              
choice or to scare her with tactics, propaganda and road blocks.                                                                
MS. FAULKNER said the 12 Homer residents  she is representing are:                                                              
Karey  Thurman,  Jane  Albert,  Judy  Flora,  Melon  Purcell,  Jim                                                              
Meesis,  Kathy  Steberl,  Terry Thurman,  Michelle  Waneka,  Laura                                                              
Wilke, Kate Finn and Heidi Glotfelty.                                                                                           
Number 2083                                                                                                                     
MS. ROBIN SMITH,  representing herself, stated she  is pro-choice.                                                              
She disagrees  with the  people who oppose  abortion but,  just as                                                              
she does  not want a  woman coerced into  having an  abortion, she                                                              
also does  not want a woman  coerced into carrying a  pregnancy to                                                              
term.   This  bill  attempts  to  inflict one  person's  religious                                                              
beliefs onto  another's and questions  a woman's  intelligence and                                                              
moral values.                                                                                                                   
MS. SMITH said  there is already a waiting period  longer than the                                                              
required  24 hour  waiting  period--it takes  three  weeks past  a                                                              
missed menstruation to perform the  earliest surgical abortion and                                                              
this  is because  a physician  must be  able to  visually see  the                                                              
fetal tissue.                                                                                                                   
MS. SMITH noted  there is also the consideration  that an abortion                                                              
costs $550.00 and  this is only if a woman lives  within the three                                                              
communities where surgical abortion  is offered--Anchorage, Palmer                                                              
and Kenai.                                                                                                                      
MS.  SMITH  said  that because  of  the  advances  in  technology,                                                              
everyone has seen  pictures of a fetus and there is  no need to go                                                              
back and educate women about the fetus.                                                                                         
MS.  SMITH  noted  that  C. Everett  Koop,  the  pro-life  surgeon                                                              
general, could not find any adverse  psychological effects from an                                                              
abortion.   However,  for the  past 16  years Alaska  has had  the                                                              
highest rape  rate per capita in  the United States--what  type of                                                              
trauma will this legislation inflict on a rape victim?                                                                          
MS. SMITH said that if the legislature  wants to make sure a woman                                                              
knows  what  she is  doing,  a  better  way  would be  to  require                                                              
responsible  sex education  in the  schools--having  an impact  on                                                              
both  men and  women.    Ms. Smith  urged  the committee  to  vote                                                              
against SB 300.                                                                                                                 
Number 1941                                                                                                                     
MS. JENNIFER  RUDINGER,  Executive Director  for the Alaska  Civil                                                              
Liberties Union  (ACLU), said she  speaks in opposition to  SB 300                                                              
on behalf of  the 1,000 members of  the ACLU and for  other people                                                              
who have contacted her in opposition to SB 300.                                                                                 
MS. RUDINGER  addressed  the question that  Chairman Taylor  asked                                                              
Ms. Robinson  in regard to the  difference between SB 300  and the                                                              
tattooing bill  concerning informed consent.   First of all,  a 24                                                              
hour waiting  period is not  required, which causes  extra expense                                                              
and delay.   But more  importantly, people  who want a  tattoo are                                                              
not being given biased propaganda  by the state and forced to sign                                                              
off that they  have received it.   People are not forced  to incur                                                              
the extra expense of consulting with  a physician before getting a                                                              
tattoo, and abortion is a constitutional  right.  The U.S. Supreme                                                              
Court and the Alaska Supreme Court  have decided that the right to                                                              
choose an abortion is a woman's fundamental  constitutional right.                                                              
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR  thanked her and  said that he was  not addressing                                                              
the  unique differences  between  the two  bills,  he was  talking                                                              
about  the concept  of whether  or  not there  should be  informed                                                              
consent for a female child who is pregnant.                                                                                     
MS. RUDINGER stated  that no one will argue that  informed consent                                                              
is not  important.   Doctors are now  required to obtain  informed                                                              
consent for any  medical procedure and they are  required to spend                                                              
time counseling women.                                                                                                          
MS. RUDINGER  said that  SB 300 is  unconstitutional and  the ACLU                                                              
agrees with Ms.  Bomengen's earlier testimony.  SB  300 violates a                                                              
woman's right  and endangers  her health.   It also imposes  extra                                                              
cost and great burdens on women who  are seeking to exercise these                                                              
fundamental rights.   The ACLU hopes  the committee will  stop the                                                              
progress of SB 300.                                                                                                             
Number 1733                                                                                                                     
DR. WHITEFIELD,  an OB/GYN practicing  in Alaska  and representing                                                              
women  of Alaska,  said  that he  has maintained  a  data base  on                                                              
abortion in  Alaska for many years.   Frequently, people  who come                                                              
to Anchorage for an abortion come  from the Bush and, the Bush, in                                                              
most  cases,  represents  Alaska  Natives.   The  24-hour  waiting                                                              
period will incur additional costs  for Alaskan Natives who choose                                                              
to  come  to  Anchorage,  or  any  other  city,  for  a  pregnancy                                                              
termination--increasing the cost.                                                                                               
DR. WHITEFIELD  said that redefining  the word "conception"  opens                                                              
up a number of issues.  What will  happen to the standard forms of                                                              
birth   control,   such   as   intrauterine   devises,   emergency                                                              
contraception and  birth control pills--all  of which can  cause a                                                              
pregnancy  to  slough  from  the  side of  the  uterus  before  it                                                              
implants?  Do  these types of birth control become  abortions and,                                                              
if so, how  will physicians counsel  women who want an  IUD, birth                                                              
control pills  or need  emergency contraception?   If people  have                                                              
eggs  that have  been fertilized  for in  vitro fertilization  and                                                              
decide not  to use all  of them and  want them destroyed,  is this                                                              
abortion?  The  word "conception" has to be dealt  with in medical                                                              
terms,  in   terms  of   implantation  in   the  uterus   and  not                                                              
fertilization of an egg.                                                                                                        
DR. WHITEFIELD  said he has done  abortions based on  lethal fetal                                                              
anomalies, and he  has asked patients how they would  have felt if                                                              
he had provided  a pamphlet demonstrating a pregnancy  at two week                                                              
intervals before  the abortion.   The response has been  that this                                                              
would  not  have  been  helpful and  that  it  would  have  caused                                                              
emotional trauma.                                                                                                               
MS. ROSE  MEDEIROS,  representing herself,   said  that she  has a                                                              
virus called HSV  which causes cold sores--painful  blisters.  For                                                              
Ms. Medeiros,  HSV creates  recurrent and  very painful  sores and                                                              
without treatment she  can get as many as two or  three blisters a                                                              
month.   HSV  is treatable  with  antiviral  drugs but  it is  not                                                              
curable.     Unfortunately,  these   antiviral  drugs   cannot  be                                                              
prescribed  to pregnant  women because  they tend  to cause  fetal                                                              
birth defects.  With the definition  of pregnancy in SB 300 and HB
329, her doctor  will not be able  to legally certify that  she is                                                              
not  pregnant, therefore  he will  not  be able  to prescribe  the                                                              
antiviral drugs.   SB 300 will take  away the only way  she has to                                                              
control an extremely  painful disorder and she  asks the committee                                                              
to help fix this problem.                                                                                                       
Number 1471                                                                                                                     
MS. LEILA  WISE, resident of Anchorage,  said she opposes  SB 300.                                                              
She believes  that the  decision to have  an abortion  is personal                                                              
and private and  should be left to a woman.  The  provisions of SB
300  are  invasive  and  punitive  and  are  based  on  inaccurate                                                              
information  about  medical practices  and  terminology.   She  is                                                              
concerned that the bill will make  certain contraceptives illegal.                                                              
Since the whole  goal of SB 300 is to prevent  abortions, she does                                                              
not think  the committee wants  to make contraceptives  illegal or                                                              
more difficult to obtain.                                                                                                       
MS.  WISE stated  the bill  is also  intrusive,  no other  medical                                                              
procedure  requires a  24-hour  waiting period  for  women and  no                                                              
other bill  punishes women exclusively.   All surgical  procedures                                                              
now  require   informed  consent--abortion  included.     Informed                                                              
consent is  not required for the  consequences of not  choosing an                                                              
abortion.    Pregnancy is  far  more  dangerous than  choosing  an                                                              
abortion, and if  informed consent is required for  an abortion it                                                              
should then be  required for carrying a pregnancy  to term so that                                                              
women and  their families know exactly  what will happen  or could                                                              
happen.    People should  be  educated  on  all the  physical  and                                                              
emotional consequences  of having a  baby and they should  also be                                                              
educated on  maternal death as the  direct result of  continuing a                                                              
MS. WISE said that  SB 300 is dangerous.  Women  in Alaska already                                                              
face  enormous   burdens  and  challenges  in   locating  abortion                                                              
services  and  having  to  leave  their home  to  obtain  a  first                                                              
trimester procedure.  It is expensive  and hard and imposing a 24-                                                              
hour waiting period  can make it even harder.   The waiting period                                                              
is a deliberate  strategy that has allowed  anti-choice extremists                                                              
to harass  women in other  states.  They  will write  down license                                                              
plate numbers, follow  women home, barrage them  and violate their                                                              
privacy for the 24 hours before they can go back to the clinic.                                                                 
MS. WISE claimed this bill dehumanizes  women, it patronizes women                                                              
and it  shames them  about a decision  they have  made.   Ms. Wise                                                              
strongly urged  the committee  to vote  against this bill  because                                                              
women are smart  enough, responsible enough and  capable enough to                                                              
make their own choices.                                                                                                         
Number 1328                                                                                                                     
MS.  AMY BOLLENBACH,  representing herself,  asked if  information                                                              
about the  risks of pregnancy and  childbirth were included  in HB
MR. PAULEY  stated that the House  did not include  any additional                                                              
information  on  this  issue  when   they  reported  the  CS  from                                                              
committee  but the original bill includes reference to this.                                                                    
MS. BOLLENBACH  asked if the  language "carrying the  unborn child                                                              
to term" includes  child birth itself.  She said  it would only be                                                              
fair  for the  bill to  include information  for both.   The  bill                                                              
talks  about  photographs  of  the  fetus--there  should  also  be                                                              
photographs of women  birthing a child.  It would  also be correct                                                              
and  fair to  show a  picture of  a woman  who has  died at  child                                                              
MS.  BOLLENBACH  said that  Dr.  Nakamura,  Ms. Rudinger  and  Dr.                                                              
Whitefield  have made  all the  points she  wanted to  make.   She                                                              
stated she  is against  SB 300,  and it  is important to  remember                                                              
that a person has  the right to decide what happens  to his or her                                                              
own body.                                                                                                                       
Number 1183                                                                                                                     
SENATOR HALFORD moved to replace  the word "conception" on page 5,                                                              
line 21 and page  3, line 8 with the word "fertilization."   There                                                              
being no objection, amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                                    
SENATOR  DONLEY said  he was concerned  with the  fact that  women                                                              
have to be  certified that they  are not pregnant before  they can                                                              
receive certain medications.                                                                                                    
DR. NAKAMURA  stated  that the committee  has  made the bill  even                                                              
worse     by  replacing   the  word   conception  with   the  word                                                              
fertilization.   Fertilization is  not a definition  of pregnancy.                                                              
SB 300 tends  to equate conception, fertilization  and pregnancy--                                                              
this is impossible to do.                                                                                                       
SENATOR HALFORD suggested replacing  the word "contraception" with                                                              
"implantation" instead of with "fertilization."                                                                                 
DR.  NAKAMURA  responded  that  "implantation"  would  be  a  more                                                              
correct term, at least that is when  pregnancy is considered to be                                                              
Number 978                                                                                                                      
SENATOR  HALFORD  moved to  rescind  the  action in  adopting  the                                                              
previous amendment.   There  being no  objection, amendment  1 was                                                              
SENATOR HALFORD  moved to  include the  words "when combined  with                                                              
implantation"  on page 3,  line 8 and  page 5,  line 22.   The new                                                              
language will read, "'conception'  when combined with implantation                                                              
means the fusion of a human spermatozoan with a human ovum:."                                                                   
DR. NAKAMURA  said that if  the bill was left  the way it  was, no                                                              
woman  could undergo  any sexual  act  with a  male without  total                                                              
artificial contraception  because there will always be  a point at                                                              
which a sperm and  an egg get together.  This  will also eliminate                                                              
any  possibility of  taking  any medication  as  precluded in  the                                                              
event of a pregnancy.                                                                                                           
SENATOR HALFORD asked if using the  word implantation will allow a                                                              
woman to use medication when needed.                                                                                            
DR. NAKAMURA said  yes, assuming the woman has the  ability to get                                                              
a pregnancy test done early, but  not everyone has access to early                                                              
pregnancy testing.                                                                                                              
CHAIRMAN  TAYLOR  said  that  from what  Ms.  Medeiros  said,  her                                                              
physician would be unwilling to prescribe  medication to her if he                                                              
was  aware of  her  being pregnant.    So, for  a  woman of  child                                                              
bearing age facing this sort of difficulty  and the doctor knowing                                                              
the  adverse  effects that  the  medication  may  have on  such  a                                                              
person--how is it done today without doing a test?                                                                              
DR. NAKAMURA  said that missing a  period is an indication  that a                                                              
pregnancy has  been initiated, which  at least gives the  woman an                                                              
opportunity to seek the test.                                                                                                   
Number 698                                                                                                                      
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR  asked if  there was an  objection to  the earlier                                                              
amendment.  There being no objection, amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                  
SENATOR  HALFORD  moved  CSSB  300(JUD)   out  of  committee  with                                                              
individual recommendations.  There  being no objection, the motion                                                              
           HB 275-UNIFORM PROBATE CODE/TRUSTS/PROPERTY                                                                      
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR  reminded the committee  that testimony  was taken                                                              
on HB 275 during the March 22 Judiciary Committee meeting.                                                                      
SENATOR  HALFORD moved  CSHB 275  with individual  recommendations                                                              
from committee.  With no objection, the motion carried.                                                                         
         HB 318-LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY PROPERTY DISPOSAL                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE,  sponsor of HB 318, said  the state does                                                              
not have  a law  regarding lost  property and  the return  of that                                                              
property to  the finder.  If property  is not claimed in  one year                                                              
the person who found it should be able to claim it.                                                                             
SENATOR  HALFORD moved  CSHB 318  with individual  recommendations                                                              
from committee.  With no objection, the motion carried.                                                                         
There  being no  further business  to come  before the  committee,                                                              
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR adjourned the meeting at 3:15 p.m.                                                                              

Document Name Date/Time Subjects