Legislature(1993 - 1994)

04/25/1994 04:30 PM JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                   SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE                                  
                         April 25, 1994                                        
                           4:30 p.m.                                           
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
 Senator Robin Taylor, Chairman                                                
 Senator Rick Halford, Vice-Chairman                                           
 Senator George Jacko                                                          
 Senator Dave Donley                                                           
 Senator Suzanne Little                                                        
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
 All members present                                                           
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
 SENATE BILL NO. 237                                                           
 "An Act relating to offenses involving delivery of firearms to                
 minors and to offenses involving possession of dangerous                      
 instruments, including firearms, by minors."                                  
 CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 362(HES) am                                             
 "An Act relating to the statute of limitations for actions brought            
 upon a child support judgment; and establishing the crime of aiding           
 the nonpayment of child support."                                             
 CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 410(STA)                                                
 "An Act relating to real estate appraisers and the Board of                   
 Certified Real Estate Appraisers."                                            
 CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 367(JUD) am                                             
 "An Act relating to limitations on outdoor advertising signs,                 
 displays, and devices and penalties for violations related to                 
 outdoor advertising."                                                         
 CSHB 79(FIN) am (DAMAGE TO PROPERTY BY MINORS) was scheduled, but             
 not taken up this date.                                                       
 SB 315 (EDUCATION FOR EXCEPTIONAL CHILDREN) was scheduled, but not            
 taken up this date.                                                           
  PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                             
 SB 237 - See State Affairs minutes dated 2/9/94, 2/11/94, 2/16/94,            
      and 2/23/94.                                                             
 HB 362 - No previous action to record.                                        
 HB 410 - See Judiciary minutes dated 4/23/94.                                 
 HB 367 - See Judiciary minutes dated 4/23/94.                                 
 HB  79 - See Health, Education & Social Service minutes dated                 
          2/2/94.  See Judiciary minutes dated 4/18/94 & 4/23/94.              
 SB 315 - No previous action to record.                                        
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
 Senator Loren Leman                                                           
 State Capitol                                                                 
 Juneau, AK 99801-1182                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Prime Sponsor of SB 237                                
 Kathy Tibbles                                                                 
 Division of Family & Youth Services                                           
 Department of Health & Social Services                                        
 P.O. Box 110630                                                               
 Juneau, AK 99811-0630                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Stated concerns on SB 237                              
 Juanita Hensley                                                               
 Division of Motor Vehicles                                                    
 Department of Public Safety                                                   
 P.O. Box 20020                                                                
 Juneau, AK 99811-0220                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Suggested changes to SB 237                            
 Phil Petri, Chief Operations Officer                                          
 Child Support Enforcement Agency                                              
 Department of Revenue                                                         
 550 W. 7th, Suite 312                                                         
 Anchorage, AK 99501-3556                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Offered information on HB 362                          
 Fred Ferrara                                                                  
 Alaska Appraisers Association                                                 
 Anchorage, AK                                                                 
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Opposes HB 410                                         
 Commissioner Paul Fuhs                                                        
 Department of Commerce & Economic Development                                 
 P.O. Box 110800                                                               
 Juneau, AK 99811-0800                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Offered information in support of HB 410               
 Karl Luck, Director                                                           
 Division of Occupational Licensing                                            
 Department of Commerce & Economic Development                                 
 P.O. Box 110806                                                               
 Juneau, AK 99811-0806                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supports HB 410                                        
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
 TAPE 94-40, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 001                                                                    
  CHAIRMAN ROBIN TAYLOR  called the Judiciary Committee meeting to             
 order at 4:30 p.m.  He introduced  SB 237  (WEAPONS POSSESSION/SALE           
 BY/TO MINORS) as the first order of business and directed attention           
 to a draft Judiciary CS.                                                      
 SENATOR HALFORD moved that CSSB 237(JUD) be adopted.  Hearing no              
 objection, the motion carried.                                                
 SENATOR LOREN LEMAN, prime sponsor of SB 237, said he introduced              
 the legislation after it came to his attention that the Anchorage             
 Police Department could not arrest juveniles who had weapons and              
 were brandishing them until they otherwise used them in some way              
 and broke the law.  SB 237 provides that juveniles have parental              
 permission to have those weapons, with certain exceptions such as             
 marksmanship and hunter safety classes.  The legislation also                 
 contains changes to the procedures regarding juveniles who commit             
 crimes with firearms.                                                         
 Senator Leman said he believes these are important changes to                 
 Alaska's juvenile weapons statutes, and he pointed out that the               
 states of Florida and Utah have recently passed similar                       
 Number 050                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR referred to Section 5 which provides that a minor              
 will not be treated as a juveniles if a firearm is used and the               
 minor has been previously adjudicated as a delinquent.  SENATOR               
 LEMAN clarified that would be the automatic waiver to be tried as             
 an adult.                                                                     
 SENATOR DONLEY referred to Section 5, which, he said, parallels SB
 209, and one of the concerns he had with that legislation was with            
 the language "the minor is alleged to have used a firearm in                  
 commission of the offense."  He asked if this brings into the scope           
 the mere possession of a firearm, and does this move them into                
 adult jurisdiction.  SENATOR LEMAN answered that would not be his             
 intent if the juvenile just had possession of the weapon.   SENATOR           
 TAYLOR suggested the record should clearly reflect that the words             
 "used as a firearm in the commission of the offense" would not                
 encompass the mere possession which is already provided for.                  
 Number 163                                                                    
 SENATOR DONLEY, using the example of juveniles bringing firearms to           
 school,  said the first offense doesn't necessarily result in very            
 serious ramifications, because the juvenile isn't  treated as an              
 adult for the first offense, and he suggested discussion on drawing           
 a harder line warning the juvenile that if he does it again, it               
 will trigger a serious penalty as an adult.  The question should be           
 if the triggering offense include mere status crimes such as                  
 possession of firearms and not utilization of firearms.                       
 Number 280                                                                    
 KATHY TIBBLES, Division of Family & Youth Services, Department of             
 Health & Social Services, stated the division is opposed to                   
 lowering an automatic waiver age down to the age of 14 years for              
 such offenses, because the division believes that at age 14                   
 children still generally are amenable to treatment, and that those            
 who commit offenses of a serious enough nature can still be waived            
 under the current process that is available.                                  
 Ms. Tibbles said the division also has a technical concern with               
 language in the bill that refers to adjudication of delinquency in            
 another jurisdiction.  She pointed out that there is currently no             
 national network that would make that kind of information available           
 to them, so there are a lot of instances where they wouldn't know             
 whether a juvenile has been adjudicated in another state.                     
 Number 310                                                                    
 JUANITA HENSLEY, Division of Motor Vehicles, Department of Public             
 Safety, directed attention to language on page 6 in Section 6,                
 which relates to revoking a driver's license for one year on the              
 first offense of these juveniles.  If an individual is convicted of           
 a drunk driving offense, their license is only going to be revoked            
 for 90 days on the first offense.  If they are driving drunk and              
 they kill someone and they are charged with manslaughter, etc., the           
 court is only required to revoke their license for a period of 30             
 days.  She recommended on line 9 changing the one year to 90 days,            
 and on line 11 changing the two years to one year, which would be             
 consistent with the other areas of statute on license revocation              
 Number 390                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR moved that on page 6, line 9, change "one year" to             
 "90 days" and on line 11 change "two years" to "one year."  He also           
 modified the amendment on line 8, after the words "license for a              
 period of" to include the words "no less than."  Hearing no                   
 objection, the Chairman stated the amendment was adopted.                     
 Number 415                                                                    
 SENATOR DONLEY said because the amendment reduces the minimum time            
 of suspension, he would like to see the requirement that they pay             
 the $100 fee for reinstatement of their license.   He then proposed           
 the $100 reinstatement fee as a conceptual amendment.  Hearing no             
 objection, the amendment was adopted.                                         
 Number 490                                                                    
 SENATOR HALFORD moved that CSSB 237(JUD) be passed out of committee           
 with individual recommendations.  Hearing no objection, it was                
 Number 500                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR brought  CSHB 362(HES) am  (CHILD SUPPORT:                     
 CRIMINAL/CIVIL REMEDIES) before the committee as the next order of            
 PHIL PETRI, Chief Operations Officer, Child Support Enforcement               
 Agency, Department of Revenue, explained the legislation has two              
 purposes.  The first part is a change to the statute of limitations           
 to extend them to a reasonable period of time so that they aren't             
 always going back into court to establish a judgement.  Right now,            
 they would have to do that approximately twice in the lifetime of             
 a normal child assuming 18 because there is a 10-year statute of              
 limitations.  The second part is to establish a new crime of aiding           
 and abetting and will deal with individuals that willfully and                
 intentionally change the official record or asset into someone                
 else's name, or they set up shell corporations, businesses to avoid           
 paying child support.                                                         
 Number 560                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR thought using the word "person on lines 19, 20 and             
 21 was rather vague language because sometimes it is referring to             
 the "donor" and sometimes it is referring to the "donee."                     
 TAPE 94-40, SIDE B                                                            
 SENATOR DONLEY commented that the problem is with the specific                
 intent necessary to trigger existence of a crime.  It would be                
 better to resolve that question now rather than leave it up to a              
 court later.                                                                  
 Number 100                                                                    
 SENATOR DONLEY asked if the lack of the transferor's intent to                
 avoid paying support or the transferee's intent to assist the                 
 transferor's attempt to avoid paying support could be a defense.              
 PHIL PETRI answered that if neither intended it to avoid the                  
 payment of child support, the answer would be "No."  They do not              
 want that to be a crime.  He added that he would like to have the             
 bill worded in such a manner that it has the least amount of                  
 challenges available.                                                         
 Number 180                                                                    
 SENATOR LITTLE moved the following amendment:                                 
 Page 2, lines 7, 11, 14, 18 & 21:  Change "person" to "obligor"               
 Page 2, line 19:  Change "person's" to "obligor's"                            
 Hearing no objection, the amendment was adopted.                              
 Number 195                                                                    
 SENATOR DONLEY moved the following amendment to be inserted by the            
 bill drafter where appropriate:  "The lack of the obligor's intent            
 to avoid paying support, or the transferee's intent to assist the             
 obligor in avoiding paying support, is not a defense.  (The intent            
 of this amendment was approved prior to the restatement of the                
 amendment by Senator Donley.)  Hearing no objection, the amendment            
 was adopted.                                                                  
 Number 240                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR stated a committee substitute would be prepared and            
 the legislation would be back before the committee in the near                
 future for further action.                                                    
 Number 250                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR brought  CSHB 367(JUD) am  (PROHIBITED HIGHWAY                 
 ADVERTISING) before the committee as the next order of business.              
 SENATOR TAYLOR noted that Senator Frank had requested that his                
 original version of the legislation be passed out of committee, but           
 because it did not have the provision relating to municipalities,             
 it was decided to wait for the House version.                                 
 In reviewing the previous hearing by the committee on HB 367,                 
 SENATOR TAYLOR said he wanted to have as clean a bill as possible             
 under the federal law which would not involve municipal                       
 interference on that question.  Senator Little wanted the bill not            
 to apply to municipalities unless they chose to apply it to                   
 SENATOR LITTLE said the way the bill is written in Section 4 on               
 page 3, lines 16 - 20, is that the municipality's existing                    
 ordinances would remain in effect after passage of this bill.                 
 SENATOR TAYLOR agreed with her interpretation.                                
 Number 305                                                                    
 SENATOR LITTLE proposed an amendment on page 2, line 26, to replace           
 "8 feet by 12 feet" with "4 feet by 8 feet."  After brief                     
 discussion on the amendment and there being no objection to the its           
 adoption, the Chairman stated the amendment was approved.                     
 There being no motion to move HB 367 out of committee, the                    
 committee went on to the next order of business.                              
 Number 411                                                                    
 before the committee as the final order of business.                          
 FRED FERRARA, Alaska Appraisers Association, testifying from                  
 Anchorage over the teleconference network in opposition to the                
 legislation, stated they had originally needed the authority to               
 change the statute so that the board can set hours of education               
 that would be consistent with the federal requirements so that the            
 new appraisers coming into the business would meet federal                    
 requirements and would be certified to do work for all the banks,             
 credit unions, etc.  However, the bill has been modified in the               
 House to the extent that it would reduce the present law and cause            
 them to drop some of the education requirements and cause them to             
 drop the experience requirements.                                             
 Mr. Ferrara said the FIREA law was put into effect to get a basic             
 starting law all over the United States so that there would be                
 consistency among the education and experience of appraisers.  It             
 required two years of experience for commercial or residential                
 In 1990, the State of Alaska passed legislation that conformed to             
 the federal requirements for education, and it even exceeded the              
 requirements for recertification education by doubling it to 40               
 hours for every two years, which results in the appraisers getting            
 better education and, as a result, they have ways of bringing                 
 people into the field a lot easier with courses offered in the                
 State of Alaska instead of traveling outside.                                 
 Mr. Ferrara said HB 410 would effectively force the board to reduce           
 the recertification education to 20 hours every two years, as well            
 as forcing them to drop the experience requirements from the                  
 present three years for residential and four years for commercial             
 down to two years for everybody.  This would mean that new people             
 coming would have lesser experience than all of the appraisers that           
 are currently certified in the state, and he stated their total               
 objection to these changes.                                                   
 Number 520                                                                    
 SENATOR LITTLE inquired why this legislation was perceived to be a            
 good idea.                                                                    
 Number 525                                                                    
 COMMISSIONER FUHS, Department of Commerce & Economic Development,             
 explained that the legislation came about at the suggestion of the            
 Legislative Budget & Audit Committee in order to make the standards           
 the same as federal law.  He pointed out that only four other                 
 states have different standards than the federal standards.                   
 Commissioner Fuhs stressed the importance of passing the                      
 legislation, because if these changes aren't made before June 30,             
 1994, there will no longer be any more federal housing loans in the           
 Number 575                                                                    
 KARL LUCK, Director, Division of Occupational Licensing, Department           
 of Commerce & Economic Development, said the state can lose its               
 certification, and one of the provisions of losing the                        
 certification is that if, in fact, this auditor board has a finding           
 that the state is not in compliance.                                          
 Number 592                                                                    
 SENATOR DONLEY asked that if the state is currently more stringent            
 than federal law, than why is the state out of compliance.                    
 COMMISSIONER FUHS answered that Alaska is less stringent in                   
 education, but more stringent in experience.  He added that if the            
 House version passes, Alaska won't be able to more stringent in               
 experience which would open the door for more people to be                    
 (SENATOR JACKO took over as Chair because SENATOR TAYLOR had                  
 another commitment to meet.)                                                  
 Number 630                                                                    
 FRED FERRARA pointed out that there is no shortage of appraisers in           
 the Sate of Alaska.                                                           
 SENATOR LITTLE said she would to see a comparison showing what the            
 state has now and how this legislation changes that.  COMMISSIONER            
 FUHS said one could be provided, but reiterated that the bill just            
 says that the state's requirements for appraisers would at least              
 have to meet the federal requirements, but could not exceed the               
 federal requirements.                                                         
 SENATOR JACKO asked if the bill does anything beyond the federal              
 requirements.  COMMISSIONER FUHS answered that it doesn't, and that           
 was done at the request of the banking community.                             
 TAPE 94-41, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 015                                                                    
 Because the committee had lost its quorum, there was no final                 
 action taken on CSHB 367(STA) and the meeting was adjourned at 6:17           

Document Name Date/Time Subjects