Legislature(1999 - 2000)
04/28/1999 01:36 PM Senate HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE
April 28, 1999
1:36 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Mike Miller, Chairman
Senator Pete Kelly, Vice-Chairman
Senator Gary Wilken
Senator Drue Pearce
Senator Kim Elton
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members were present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Confirmation of Appointments to the University Board of Regents
Confirmation of Appointments to the Board of Education
Board of Dental Examiners
Mr. Kenneth L. Crooks, D.D.S., Dillingham
Board of Marital and Family Therapy
Ms. Sandra M. Samaniego, Fairbanks
State Medical Board
Mr. Keith M. Brownsberger, M.D., Anchorage
Ms. Sheila Means, Juneau
Alaska Mental Health Trust Authority Board
of Trustees
Mr. Nelson G. Page, Esq., Anchorage
Board of Certified Direct-Entry Midwives
Ms. Marilyn Holmes, Juneau
Board of Nursing
Ms. Barbara Berner, ANP, Ed D, Anchorage
Board of Examiners in Optometry
Mr. Thomas N. Carter, Fairbanks
Mr. Erik D. Christianson, O.D., Ketchikan
Mr. John C. Cobbett, O.D., North Pole
Board of Pharmacy
Ms. Margaret D. Soden, R.Ph., Fairbanks
State Physical Therapy and Occupational Therapy Board
Ms. Joanne Bell-Graves, Juneau
Ms. Leslie F. Schwartz, Petersburg
Board of Professional Counselors
Ms. Toni Chrestman, Nome
Ms. Anne L. Henry, Juneau
Mr. David F. Leonard, Esq., Fairbanks
Mr. Allan A. Morotti, PhD., Fairbanks
Mr. Robert L. Pound, Anchorage
Professional Teaching Practices Commission
Mr. Steven Beardsley, Anchorage
Mr. Bruce F. Johnson, Sitka
Mr. Vickie L. McCubbin, Anchorage
Board of Psychologist and Psychological
Associate Examiners
Mr. Paul Craig, Anchorage
Board of Social Work Examiners
Mr. Denny Patella, Anchorage
SENATE BILL NO. 112
"An Act relating to a program of postsecondary education for high
school students."
-MOVED CSSB 112(HES)OUT OF COMMITTEE
SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR SENATE BILL NO. 94
"An Act relating to the medical use of marijuana; and providing for
an effective date."
-HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SB 112 - See HESS Committee minutes dated 4/19/99 and 4/26/99
SB 94 - See HESS Committee minutes dated 3/24/99
WITNESS REGISTER
University of Alaska Board of Regents
Mr. Brian Rogers, Fairbanks
Ms. Frances H. Rose, Anchorage
Mr. Robert A. Malone, Anchorage
Mr. Joseph E. Usibelli, Jr., Healy
Board of Education
Ms. Paula R. Pawlowski, Anchorage
Ms. Susan A. Stitham, Fairbanks
Mr. Roy Nageak, Sr., Barrow
Mr. Harry Rogers
PO Box 398
Valdez, AK 99686
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 112
Mr. Duane Udland, Chief of Police
Anchorage Police Department
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SSSB 94
Mr. James "Scooter" Welch, Deputy Chief
Fairbanks Police Department
656 7th Avenue
Fairbanks, AK 99701
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SSSB 94
Mr. Dean Guaneli, Chief Assistant
Attorney General
Criminal Division, Department of Law
PO Box 110300
Juneau, AK 99811-0300
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SSSB 94
Mr. Del Smith, Deputy Commissioner
Department of Public Safety
PO Box 111200
Juneau, AK 99811-1200
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SSSB 94
Mr. Elmer Lindstrom, Special Assistant
Department of Health & Social Services
PO Box 110601
Juneau, AK 99811-0601
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SSSB 94
Mr. Matthew Fagnani, President
Worksafe, Inc.; President-Elect
Alaska Support Industry Alliance
Anchorage, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SSSB 94
Dr. Andrew Embick
PO Box 1899
Valdez, AK 99686
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SSSB 94
Mr. David Finkelstein
Alaskans for Medical Rights
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SSSB 94
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 99-21, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN MILLER called the Senate Health, Education and Social
Services (HESS) Committee to order at 1:36 p.m. and took up the
confirmation of appointments to the University of Alaska Board of
Regents and the Board of Education. He said the report to the
Senate President from the committee recommending confirmation of
appointments to 13 boards would be forwarded to a joint session for
confirmation.
MR. BRIAN ROGERS briefly stated he has been associated with the
University of Alaska in various capacities since 1970, and the
University is important to him as a small business owner who relies
on trained people.
SENATOR WILKEN asked Mr. Rogers how he would characterize the
"cocktail conversations" he's heard about the University. MR.
ROGERS responded that the anecdotes in 1980-81 related to problems
with transferal of credits, but with changes, it's no longer much
of a problem although the stories continue. Some of the stories
about poor customer service are true, with students being put "on
hold" or misdirected. With President Hamilton's initiatives to
work with staff to improve customer service, he said this won't be
a problem in a year or two.
SENATOR WILKEN encouraged Mr. Rogers to bring concerns to the
legislature in the future, and congratulated him on his
appointment.
SENATOR ELTON congratulated Mr. Rogers, and asked if he views
campuses other than UAF as auxiliary campuses. MR. ROGERS replied
his position has always been that it is a statewide university.
People everywhere need higher education, and there are multiple
missions that can't be dealt with in a single location including
the traditional 4-year baccalaureate mission, community college
mission and research mission.
Number 116
SENATOR PEARCE asked several questions, leading with whether the 8-
year term is the right length of time. MR. ROGERS said the board
changes slowly and it's a complex institution with multiple
missions and constituencies. As a board member it could easily
take three years to get up to speed on the policy issues.
SENATOR PEARCE asked his vision for the University in 2007.
MR. ROGERS said its history has included necessary reallocations in
the early 1990s with focus on trimming back the administrative
structure, and more recently, the faculty. The retirement
incentive program has achieved the objective of saving money but
the University is letting too much of its intellectual capital out
the door without replacing it. He would want to see the University
with a stable, sustainable fiscal future, relying on the
legislature to solve the fiscal realities. The traditional role of
a land grant university is to support the economy of the state, and
he hopes it will recognize and meet that challenge by the time he
leaves the board.
SENATOR PEARCE countered it is not a question of people not
understanding the University's role, but the stark reality of a $1
billion fiscal gap, and how the state can continue to use shrinking
general fund revenues for the multitude of services provided to the
public. She asked what alternate financial resources the
University should look at tapping.
MR. ROGERS said tuition revenues have been pushed as far as
possible without losing students at the base levels of tuition.
There might be specialized tuitions corresponding to economic
opportunities created for students, or extra charges for delivery
systems making classes easier and lowering costs for students, such
as distance delivery or intensive courses lasting a week or two.
Federal and other external research funds have grown significantly
and without more core state support, there won't be much
opportunity to drive that. Revenues could be generated from non-
academic activities, but he's seen problems with the University in
competition with the private sector, and has concerns about getting
too far outside the core of teaching, research and public service.
The University has grown its land revenues from the existing land
base, largely due to timber harvesting. He didn't think the same
proportion of revenue would be seen from the existing land, but
continuing to look for revenue opportunities and building a land
grant trust fund and endowment fund will create a revenue stream.
MR. ROGERS said private giving will become more significant in the
University's revenues as his generation ages and wishes to give
back to society what it has been given.
SENATOR PEARCE asked if he would support the concept of a bill
asking all of the communities with local campuses to return to
local contributions to support the community college mission of the
University. MR. ROGERS responded the concept of local support is
embodied in the concept of community colleges, and several do
contribute today, though not every community is positioned to make
as significant a contribution as Valdez makes. Provisions within
University policy today give more local control to the community
college if the community contributes. It may be difficult to get
some communities to agree to this right now.
SENATOR PEARCE asked if it is a fair expectation of the legislature
that the University attract the "best and brightest" students at
the same time it has an open enrollment policy and expends
tremendous resources on the part-time, non-traditional, non-degree
student. MR. ROGERS said it is the University's mission and not
unreasonable to ask that it meet the postsecondary education needs
of Alaskans. Needs and talents vary widely in the segments of
Alaskan society. It's a big job, but not an unreasonable
expectation.
Number 294
MS. FRAN ROSE, Anchorage, stated she was employed as an instructor
and program coordinator at the Anchorage Community College for 13
years. In 1975 she received a Master's in Education from UAA. She
currently owns an investment business.
SENATOR PEARCE asked her vision for the University in 2007. MS.
ROSE answered that it should be world-class in some area, and that
arctic research has enormous potential for attracting students and
business. She would like to see the University become a well-
grounded liberal arts school that functions throughout the state
electronically with distance delivery. Its vocational programs will
add to the economics of the state by preparing students for various
businesses.
SENATOR PEARCE replied that it would seem we're trying to be all
things to all people at a time when there is a billion dollar
fiscal gap. She asked what alternate financial resources the
University could tap. MS. ROSE said the University has the least
amount of land of any land grant university. Private donations,
particularly from successful graduates, and grants and research
would help. A portion of the earnings of the Permanent Fund would
establish an endowment and provide a continual steady income for
the University.
SENATOR PEARCE responded that with the $1 billion fiscal gap that
higher oil prices won't plug because of falling oil production, the
legislature could use every dollar of the PF earnings just to plug
that gap and not have the funding to set up another separate
endowment for the University. She asked if Ms. Rose would support
asking all the local communities to contribute to the community
college mission at some equitable level from campus to campus. MS.
ROSE said she would, but with lowered state revenue sharing "there
might be a lot of hollering and screaming about that." She didn't
know how it could be worked out to be equitable.
SENATOR PEARCE asked if she thought the University has a
responsibility to provide university courses in every community in
the state. MS. ROSE said not in every community, but courses could
be provided electronically.
SENATOR WILKEN pointed out that at Chukchi campus for the school
year ending May 1998, seven students were graduated, four of whom
were 2-year degrees and one, a GED. It cost $900,000. At the
Northwest College, nine students were graduated, five of whom were
2-year degrees, and two, GEDs. It cost $1.3 million. That's $2.2
million for 16 students, half of whom were 2-year graduates. When
the Senator brought that to President Hamilton's attention, he said
there's more to that outreach than just degrees. SENATOR WILKEN
said a lot of the legislators question whether the state can spend
that kind of money for so few students unless it is understood what
else is being provided in outreach other than graduating students
with degrees in higher learning. He asked Ms. Rose to comment.
MS. ROSE said it does concern her, but she doesn't know yet what
goes on at all the campuses. It probably shouldn't cost so much
for so few students, but she didn't know the enrollment. There may
be short-term training for jobs that doesn't show up in these
figures. SENATOR WILKEN asked Ms. Rose to keep her eye on those
numbers and take it on as a mission to educate the legislature
about the outreach campuses so it can better decide how to fund
them.
Number 442
MR. BOB MALONE, Anchorage, stated he is a 6-year resident of Alaska
employed by Alyeska Pipeline Service Company, with experience in
the mining industry and more recently, the oil industry. He has a
diverse business background, and has been involved with the
Children's Trust and the University system.
SENATOR ELTON congratulated Mr. Malone on his appointment, and
asked if he would expect to be in Alaska for the full 8 years of
the term of his appointment as a Regent. MR. MALONE replied it was
a topic when he received a call from the Governor, and he told Mr.
Knowles he could not guarantee he'd be in Alaska for 8 years.
However, he felt certain he could at least make a contribution in
the short term.
SENATOR PEARCE asked about his vision for the University in 2007.
MR. MALONE said the most important goal would be enhanced, strong
credentials for the University itself, followed by fiscal
stability. His son went to the Lower 48 for a mechanical
engineering degree. Part of his focus will be on making the
University an attractive educational alternative for our children,
capitalizing on the unique geographical location and opportunities
in the natural resource areas of mining or petroleum engineering
or forestry. He'd also like to see the University attracting a lot
more external research dollars in the new millennium.
SENATOR PEARCE asked what alternate financial resources the
University should tap. MR. MALONE said he's not familiar with the
budget, but he believes where communities can contribute, it helps
with the ownership of the system. It worries him whether the
communities can fund their necessary services and also add the
University system.
SENATOR PEARCE brought up an example of Senator Halford taking a
welding class at UAS for which he paid $300 and calculated the
total cost of providing the class at $600. It was a non-degree,
non-job training continuing education class for which Senator
Pearce felt Senator Halford should pay over 50% of the cost. MR.
MALONE said Alyeska pays the full cost of training their people at
the community college and University.
Number 554
SENATOR WILKEN asked Mr. Malone to become familiar with the rural
campus mission and efficiency in delivery of education, and help
the legislature understand its needs.
SENATOR KELLY said he doesn't know if the benefits of the rural
campuses outweigh their costs, but University people tell him there
is more value than meets the eye. He would like the Regents to
begin thinking about mission misalignment and social needs.
MR. MALONE said he would commit to do that.
SENATOR ELTON commented in regard to costs and investments that he
hoped for recognition of the benefits that will be reaped in the
future. There are divergent views among legislators and the
Regents about the University's role in the rural campuses.
TAPE 99-21, SIDE B
Number 586
SENATOR PEARCE said that many legislators do not feel that all
undergraduate degrees should be offered at all of the campuses,
despite the fact that students leave Alaska for their postsecondary
education. The only way to get quality is to choose a campus to
specialize in specific programs. She would not argue over the best
engineering programs being in Fairbanks, the original land grant
campus, while Anchorage has a better setup for the nursing
programs.
CHAIRMAN MILLER announced that Mr. Joe Usibelli, Jr. is out of the
country and cannot be contacted. The three Fairbanks' senators
would vouch for him as a strong advocate of the University system
and CHAIRMAN MILLER stated he personally felt Mr. Usibelli would be
a good appointee to the Board of Regents.
CHAIRMAN MILLER brought up the Board of Education appointments and
announced that Mr. Roy Nageak from Barrow is out whale hunting and
the first whale of the season had been struck.
Number 545
MS. PAULA PAWLOWSKI from Anchorage described her background of 25
years in public service in education, and through the military, her
knowledge of different educational systems in several states. Ms.
Pawlowski was appointed last August.
SENATOR PEARCE asked if the Board adopted a standard for the
Practice Exams for teachers that the legislature passed a bill to
require. She replied that was correct. She asked her if the level
of the exam itself was changed last November before any of those
exams had been administered to teachers.
MS. PAWLOWSKI answered the State Board was considering one set of
scores when the test score was set for the Practice Exam. When the
committee went through the tests, it recommended to the Board that
the score be lowered by less than 10 points. The Board took the
committee's recommendation as a compromise.
MS. PAWLOWSKI said the committee was comprised of teachers around
the state.
SENATOR PEARCE asked why the Board would ever lessen the
requirements for teacher standards, particularly without even
administering the tests to see if there is a problem. The intent
in passing the law was to have the strictest standards possible to
ensure having the best teachers. She didn't understand why the
Board would allow any group, even legislators, to advise lowering
the standards and make such a move.
MS. PAWLOWSKI replied the Board did not set the scores before the
committee began to work. Alaska is in the top five states in its
requirements. She did not believe that negotiating a ten-point
spread was a step backward, but a step in alignment with what other
states have required. The Board wants teachers to come from all
states and pass those scores. There was a lot of debate and
research into what other states have done, and the Board will
review how it went a year from last November. The exam is for the
teacher attending a teacher preparation course, a basic test of
skills and a tool for the teachers who did not pass the standard
test during their sophomore year of college. It is not a high
standards test, but a qualifying exit exam.
SENATOR PEARCE questioned why we'd want that person to stay in the
degree program or to lower that standard if it truly is that basic.
MS. PAWLOWSKI repeated the Board did not lower it, but put it in
alignment with other states. She assured the Senator that the test
scores will be reviewed next November.
Number 467
SENATOR ELTON asked if the test scores or "Pass/Fail" are released
to schools who are hiring teachers. MS. PAWLOWSKI said teachers can
take it more than once in order to pass all of it. She didn't know
if the scores are released. SENATOR ELTON commented that his
concern would be mitigated if districts know whether they are
hiring a teacher in the top or bottom ten percentile.
MS. PAWLOWSKI said the Board wants a teacher to pass the exam with
much higher than the minimum requirement, and would keep an eye on
it.
CHAIRMAN MILLER said that after hearing the final Board appointment
his intent was to take up SB 112, followed by the agencies invited
to speak on SB 94. The committee would go until 3:30 if necessary.
Number 438
MS. SUSAN STITHAM of Fairbanks stated she has been involved in
education in Alaska for 20 or 25 years. The Board is a cohesive
group with commitment to quality education and has made progress in
terms of standards, and she's pleased to have the opportunity to
continue serving on it.
CHAIRMAN MILLER returned to Senator Pearce's question about the
test scores, and said it sounded like the exam would be in line
with other states but Alaska wouldn't be at the top of the list for
having a tough test. If that perception is accurate, it concerns
him.
MS. STITHAM replied that she voted against that test score, and she
shares the committee's concerns but understands that the advice
from the Educational Testing Service (ETS) was that the score was
way out of line and "too high." There might have been legal
liabilities and ETS made a recommendation for Alaska based on work
they'd done here. With any high stakes assessment there is
potential litigation: if you don't pass this exam, you don't get a
license. The Board will revisit this once the test results are in.
This test measures literacy and numeracy, and there should be a
high standard. She expressed frustration that this test didn't
measure what a person doesn't know, with a score of 30 versus a
score of 25. She would like to see a move toward performance
assessments.
SENATOR WILKEN asked if she is near retirement and thanked her for
her service to the kids at Lathrop High.
CHAIRMAN MILLER asked for an all-inclusive motion to move the
confirmation of appointments.
SENATOR ELTON moved that the committee forward to the full body the
names of the appointments to state boards in its three-page report.
Without objection, it was so ordered.
Number 360
SENATOR WILKEN moved that the committee report out the individuals
considered for the State Board of Education. Without objection, it
was so ordered.
SENATOR WILKEN moved that the committee report out the four
individuals nominated by the Governor for the Board of Regents.
Without objection, it was so ordered.
SB 112-POSTSECONDARY CLASS FOR HIGH SCHOOL
CHAIRMAN MILLER brought up SB 112, and explained the proposed CS
addresses Senator Pearce's concern by adding on page 2, line 3, "a
student in good standing."
SENATOR ELTON said that in addition to that language, the CS also
states on page 2, lines 11 and 12, that "good standing" shall be
determined by the governing body of the district. It will be
defined by the individual districts, not in statute.
SENATOR PEARCE moved to adopt the Committee Substitute. Without
objection, it was adopted.
Number 331
MR. HARRY ROGERS, Valdez School District, stated his district has a
concern that SB 112 may have a negative effect on its current
program that successfully blends high school and college for those
going on to a degree program or to a school-to-career program. He
described the partnership between parents, PWS Community College
and Valdez High School. Of the 229 high school students, 104 are
taking college credit. If this bill passes, it could add a
considerable fiscal note to the school district without gaining
anything beyond what it's already doing. With a fiscal note of
$75,000 or $80,000 the district will have to reevaluate what it's
doing.
SENATOR ELTON commented that one addition to the bill is a
provision that it will not preclude other arrangements that lower
tuition and do some of the things Mr. Rogers' district is doing
with adjunct professors. He would follow up with a phone call.
MR. ROGERS thanked the Senator.
SENATOR ELTON moved CSSB 112(HES) Version I from committee with
individual recommendations. Without objection, it was so ordered.
SB 94-MEDICAL USE OF MARIJUANA
TAPE 99-21, SIDE B
Number 280
MR. MIKE PAULEY, Staff Aide to Senator Leman, offered to defer his
comments and requested the Chairman accommodate the people holding
on-line.
MR. DUANE UDLAND, Anchorage Chief of Police, called in from Chicago
and said Senator Leman deserves thanks for bringing this bill
forward. Two issues are important to police chiefs: (1) mandatory
registration of the patient and the primary care giver with
restriction on how many patients a primary care giver can serve, to
avoid becoming a local dealer; and (2) the definition of how much
marijuana can be possessed under this law; two ounces or 6 plants
is too broad and needs work. The police don't want to arrest
people who have the medical marijuana exception, or deal with the
same problems that California has developed.
MR. "SCOOTER" JAMES WELCH, Chief Law Enforcement Officer for
Fairbanks Police Department, said enforcement's concern is to
strike a balance between compassion and legitimizing a narrow field
of what is an illegal activity. One plant can yield a pound of
marijuana selling for $4500, and can be harvested 3 times a year.
Six plants could be big business, producing an $80,000 per year
income. There must be some way to regulate, and the existing
legislation is too broad. Similarly, pharmaceutical cocaine is
available for legitimate medical purposes or you can buy street
cocaine, with a vast difference between the two products. Law
enforcement doesn't want to overlook the voters of the state but,
MR. WELCH said, the legislation needs some changes.
Number 180
MR. DEAN GUANELI, Chief Assistant Attorney General in the Criminal
Division of Department of Law, said the voters have spoken for the
medical use of marijuana. The administration wants to make the
initiative work, but it must be changed because it has technical
and serious substantive problems.
The initiative allows registered patients to sell to other
registered patients, or to anyone if it's not known for certain
that the person is not entitled to use marijuana. After
California's initiative passed, marijuana clubs with memberships
sprang up, and open buying and smoking. The club owners' defense
was that they were the primary care givers. The profits of the
largest club in San Francisco were $1 million a month until it was
shut down by the state. The state was able to shut it down because
there wasn't anything specific in their law allowing marijuana
clubs. In Alaska, there is something specific allowing a registered
patient to do that.
The initiative states a registered patient can't use marijuana in
public but registration is not required to use it, so if you're not
a registered patient and simply use it, you can use marijuana in
public. This raises the question of constitutionality.
MR. GUANELI said it creates a strong argument that it is not
constitutional in treating two similarly situated people
differently for no apparent reason and it is likely to be struck
down. Arguably, anyone can use medical marijuana in public.
A tricky provision in the initiative states that if a person uses
marijuana for medical purposes, it is not a controlled substance.
Almost all prescription drugs are controlled substances with state
and federal controls. If a person uses medical marijuana for pain
or nausea and gets very stoned and drives a car, that's okay
because the driving while intoxicated law states you're guilty of
that crime if you're under the influence of alcohol or a controlled
substance. Medical marijuana is not a controlled substance, and
therefore you can't be punished for driving under the influence. A
specific provision in the initiative says the registration card can
be taken away for one year. Since you don't have to be registered
to use marijuana, it has no effective penalty.
There is a problem with the amount of marijuana that can be used.
One ounce plus six plants can be a lot of marijuana. The average
amount from a mature plant is about 4 ounces of usable, dried
marijuana. The average of usable marijuana, from seedlings to
mature plants, is about 1 ounce. Mr. Guaneli gave an example of
how, under the initiative, a person could possess up to one pound
of marijuana. The initiative goes further and allows using more if
you can prove that it's justified.
The initiative puts many restrictions on law enforcement officials
in terms of search and seizure and forfeiture, by placing marijuana
in a separate category from other drugs or prescription drugs. When
police officers take some of this property, they have to preserve
it and water the plants. If for some technical search and seizure
reason the case gets thrown out of court, the police have to give
the property back. It is completely different from any other
provision in law, and DOL believes it is not appropriate.
Senator Leman's bill corrects a number of these problems. It makes
registration mandatory which addresses the practical problem for
law enforcement officers regarding arrest or release for legitimate
use. It changes the law so that marijuana, for medical purposes or
not, is a controlled substance. Finally, it ensures there is one
care giver for one patient, to avoid the problems arising in
California.
Number 058
CHAIRMAN MILLER commented that, as a business owner, he does not
allow cigarette smoking in his store. If the initiative were left
intact, he asked if someone smoking medical marijuana in his store
could be treated differently than someone smoking a cigarette.
Could he ask them to leave his store, or would that violate the
law?
MR. GUANELI replied there is a provision that nothing in the
initiative shall require the accommodation of medical use of
marijuana in any place of employment. Arguably, restrictions could
be placed.
CHAIRMAN MILLER asked if that applies to employees or to customers.
MR. GUANELI said you could restrict customers because it would
bother employees. On the other hand, with the Americans with
Disabilities Act, there might be an argument that because state law
allows a certain substance to be used, it might be a kind of
discrimination against someone with a disability. This question
presents a potential problem.
MR. GUANELI said that Senator Leman's Sponsor Substitute takes care
of a number of the problems he mentioned, and there are a number
that it does not address. Amendments have been prepared and he
offered to explain them.
CHAIRMAN MILLER asked if he has seen Mr. Luckhaupt's draft
amendments that put Mr. Guaneli's amendments into legislative
language. He replied that he had, and they cover all of the topics
suggested by the administration with the exception of the last one
which is still being drafted.
TAPE 99-22, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN MILLER stated his intent to take public testimony today
and discuss the Sponsor Substitute and the amendments prepared for
it.
SENATOR ELTON questioned Mr. Guaneli about his description of "two
people similarly situated," one under the authority of a physician
who can use marijuana in public and someone like himself who
wouldn't be able to use it publicly. MR. GUANELI clarified that he
meant a registered user with a physician's recommendation, and an
unregistered user who has a physician's recommendation but who has
chosen not to register, to use it and run the risk of arrest.
CHAIRMAN MILLER asked, if the committee moves the amendments
proposed by DOL and Public Safety as the vehicle and it passes the
legislature with no major changes, would the administration support
these changes to SB 94 and would Mr. Guaneli recommend that the
Governor sign the bill.
MR. GUANELI said the departments are in consensus that these are
appropriate amendments. They have discussed them with Pat
Pourchot, the Governor's legislative liaison, and are prepared to
support this bill as amended.
Number 048
MR. DEL SMITH, Deputy Commissioner of the Department of Public
Safety, echoed the comments of Chief Udland and Chief Welch and
spoke for mandatory registration. The department's concern is not
to figure out whether people ought to have marijuana, because
obviously that's the case. He said mandatory registration with a
card, or computer verification of medical use with the DHSS would
be preferable to seizing marijuana from someone who later turned
out to have a doctor's note. The possession issue and the amount
must be clearly delineated for the officer on the street.
Number 082
MR. ELMER LINDSTROM, Special Assistant to Commissioner Perdue,
Department of Health & Social Services, said the department has a
somewhat different perspective. Law enforcement notified DHSS of
enforcement concerns shortly after the initiative passed, and DHSS
would defer to those concerns. However, its difficulty is to craft
a solution that doesn't make administration of the program
impossible or difficult, or that is inappropriately intrusive of
the patient/physician relationship and violates the standard
practice of medicine in this state.
With these amendments, the department would not be opposed to the
legislation. He pointed out the DHSS 4/27/99 fiscal note totaling
$87,700. DHSS had an increment in the House and Senate Finance
Committees to operate its registry under the initiative as it was
passed, but unfortunately it was not approved by either committee.
Without the resource and despite the best efforts to improve the
legislation, the department would not be able to get information to
law enforcement in a timely manner. Under the registry system, a
patrolman could call in from the street to the DHSS dispatcher and
find out immediately if a person was a patient or a registered care
giver. If these amendments were approved by the committee, MR.
LINDSTROM said the fiscal note would be reduced by about $30,000.
MR. SMITH agreed with Mr. Lindstrom that law enforcement would need
to know in the middle of the night, not at 8:00 when personnel come
in to work.
Number 120
CHAIRMAN MILLER said although he did not support the initiative the
intent of the committee is to make the program work. The
initiative was supported by the voters so the program must be made
to work for law enforcement and the folks who truly have a
legitimate medical need for the substance. He thanked the
departments for their time and effort. He said his intent is to
bring back the Committee Substitute on Monday, which would
essentially be their amendments.
Number 140
MR. MATTHEW FAGNANI stated he is President of Work Safe Inc., the
largest drug and alcohol testing business in the state, providing
testing to 2500 private businesses and public sector organizations.
Its objective is to improve workplace safety and reduce customers'
exposure to liability from employees' illegal drug use. He spoke
to the potential workplace impacts of the marijuana initiative,
saying numerous loopholes in the language provide for ample abuse
of the law. Senator Leman has corrected some of these, and Mr.
Fagnani supported the administration's amendments as well. He
supported further revising the definition of "debilitating medical
condition" because the current broad definition would potentially
enable persons with certain conditions to obtain a recommendation
for use and be in the workplace. He suggested incorporating the
requirement of a three-physician panel to review the decision of
the physician and ensure that other means of alleviating pain have
been explored. Also of concern is the loophole allowing patients of
primary care givers to sell or distribute marijuana to each other.
He said marijuana is especially dangerous in the workplace because
it impairs coordination and judgment, making it a major cause of
accidents. Use of it off the job causes residual effects. The
Alaska Human Rights Commission has informally indicated they will
view a medical recommendation for marijuana the same as a
legitimate prescription for other drugs. Employers will have to
make reasonable accommodations in the workplace even though the
federal Americans with Disabilities Act does not recognize use of
medical marijuana as a disability. Although the statute does not
require accommodation in the workplace, it also does not prohibit
it.
Number 244
DR. ANDREW EMBICK, a physician in private practice in Valdez, spoke
in opposition to SB 94. He said he is neither an expert on
marijuana nor on the legal system, but the "replacement bill
creates an impossible standard which cannot come even close to
being met by physicians," because it requires that marijuana used
medically be the only therapeutic modality in use, rather than one
among a number of useful treatments. This is his primary
objection. If it is so dangerous, he asked, why in twenty years
has he never run into anyone with a medical problem from it?
Number 303
MR. DAVID FINKELSTEIN of Alaskans for Medical Rights (AMR) stated a
recent national Gallup Poll indicated 73% of Americans support the
medical use of marijuana at this time. He thanked Senator Leman for
the improvements in his Sponsor Substitute to SB 94 that addressed
his group's concerns.
He stated the AMR believes the legislation is not necessary. The
AMR doesn't disagree with the goals of law enforcement, and also
wants a law that is easily enforced. The interpretation of minor
drafting errors should be dealt with through regulations or in the
Revisor's Bill. The standards involved allow for these kinds of
regulations. Regulations for the registration system won't be in
place until this summer. He said he doesn't foresee any
significant problems occurring from the implementation of this
bill, but if there are, these could be addressed next session.
Mr. Finkelstein would discuss their major concerns with the Sponsor
Substitute that fall into nine areas, and said he wouldn't address
the amendments from the administration today.
A concern is the elimination of protection from arrest. It's an
affirmative defense and it's not appropriate when a person gets a
doctor's recommendation, applies to the state and meets all the
other requirements.
Another concern is access to the list by law enforcement agencies.
The SS adds "in the course of a criminal investigation or
prosecution" and this provision will significantly discourage
people from signing up on the list.
An additional concern is mandatory registration. To avoid arrest,
you must be registered with the state. There will be situations
where people aren't registered although they have complied with all
the other requirements, and they could be convicted. Future
administrations may not support the registration system.
The letter from 19 doctors indicates no additional requirements
are necessary. Adding standards for the doctor will make it much
harder for them to make recommendations for legitimate patients.
Doctors must be allowed to make their own judgments. He referred to
AS 08.64.101 which allows for review of doctors, various reprimand
levels or elimination of their license.
The provision in AS 17.37.010 states the recommendation of the
doctor would specify the nature of the patient's condition. If
that is added, MR. FINKELSTEIN said he doubts many patients would
ever register with the state. Records including details of their
medical history is completely inappropriate and would lead to a
system unintended in the initiative.
A concern is the protection given to doctors. In the initiative,
doctors are protected from prosecution if making a recommendation
is based on a legitimate doctor-patient relationship. The language
in the SS gives doctors legal protection when they also base it on
other approved treatments. That higher standard and the complexity
involved is a discouraging factor, because it's unclear that the
doctor will be protected by law if he is making a legitimate
attempt to address the medical needs of the patient. This
protection shouldn't be conditional.
SENATOR WILKEN asked if he is looking at Version I.
MR. FINKELSTEIN said yes, and referred to page 9, line 15.
SENATOR WILKEN asked him to repeat his testimony.
MR. FINKELSTEIN said that subsection (A) is basic, that a physician
should not be penalized for making these diagnoses based upon
assessment of the patient's medical history and condition, and in
the context of a bona fide patient-doctor relationship. The
Sponsor Substitute adds that the recommendation is also based on
other approved medications and treatments. While that may be
legitimate, would the doctor have legal protection if he
inaccurately interpreted or applied subsection (B). It would
discourage any doctor from even touching the subject, and to
prosecute a doctor for misinterpretation of this section would be
unfair.
Another concern relates to one patient per care giver. The
concerns expressed by law enforcement are reasonable. Draft
regulations would limit one person per care giver except for
Hospice situations or where people apply to the state. The AMR
thinks there are others such as family members who should also be
covered, which is partially addressed in the Sponsor Substitute. He
said this kind of detail can be handled in the regulations.
An additional concern relates to the approach on excess amount.
The way the law is written, if you have more than an ounce or 6
plants, 3 of which are mature plants, then you're subject to
arrest. There are cases where patients legitimately need more than
an ounce and it's not easy to obtain it.
MR. FINKELSTEIN concluded with a final concern regarding the way
doctors are treated and the standards for what is a bona fide
doctor-patient relationship.
Number 492
CHAIRMAN MILLER announced the committee would recess and reconvene
at 6:00 p.m. Depending on how many people want to testify on SB
94, a time limit might be imposed on each speaker because the
committee could meet only from 6:00 to 8:00. The committee
recessed at 3:45 p.m.
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