Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/20/1998 09:08 AM Senate HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE
March 20, 1998
9:08 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Gary Wilken, Chairman
Senator Loren Leman, Vice-Chairman
Senator Lyda Green
Senator Jerry Ward
Senator Johnny Ellis
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 282
"An Act relating to child endangerment."
PASSED SB 282 OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE BILL NO. 331
"An Act regulating licensed professional counselors; regulating use
of the titles 'licensed professional counselor' and 'licensed
counselor'; amending Rule 504(a)(3), Alaska Rules of Evidence; and
providing for an effective date."
PASSED CSSB 331(HES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE BILL NO. 252
"An Act relating to paternity establishment and child support;
relating to the crimes of criminal nonsupport and aiding the
nonpayment of child support; and amending Rule 37(b)(2)(D), Alaska
Rules of Civil Procedure; and providing for an effective date."
PASSED CSSB 252(HES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SB 282 - No previous committee action.
SB 331 - See HESS minutes dated 3/9/98.
SB 252 - See HESS minutes dated 3/2/98 and 3/4/98.
WITNESS REGISTER
Senator John Torgerson
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SB 282
Ms. Diana Buffington
317 Maple Street
Kodiak, Alaska 99615
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 282
Blair McCune
Deputy Director
Public Defender Agency
Department of Administration
900 W 5th Ave., Suite 200
Anchorage, Alaska 99501-2090
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 282
Beth Hagevig
Staff to Senator Wilken
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified for the sponsor of SB 331
Mr. Allan Morotti
Alaska School Counselors' Association
791 Goldstreak Road
Fairbanks, Alaska 99712
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 331
Robert Pound
Southcentral Counseling Center
3725 Spinnaker Drive
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 331
Robert Lane, Ph.D.
President Elect
Alaska Psychological Association
P.O. Box 241292
Anchorage, Alaska 99524-1292
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 331
Bailey Reichard
23737 Chandell
Chugiak, Alaska 99567
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 331
Cathryn Simon
12320 Tracy Road, Apt. A
Anchorage, Alaska 99516
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 331
Pamela Watts
Alaska Counseling Association of Alaska
P.O. Box 240554
Douglas, Alaska 99824
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 331
Catherine Reardon
Department of Commerce and Economic Development
P.O. Box 110806
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0806
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 331
Dan Branch, Assistant Attorney General
Human Services Section
Department of Law
P.O. Box 110300
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding SB 252
Barbara Miklos, Director
Child Support Enforcement Division
Department of Revenue
550 W 7th Ave., Suite 310
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding SB 252
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 98-25, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN WILKEN called the Senate Health, Education and Social
Services (HESS) Committee to order at 9:08 a.m. Present were
Senators Ward, Green, and Chairman Wilken. The order of business
before the committee was SB 282, SB 331, and SB 252. He announced
a joint House and Senate Health, Education and Social Services
Committee meeting was scheduled next Thursday to hear a
presentation by ECS on early child brain development.
SB 282 - CHILD ENDANGERMENT
SENATOR JOHN TORGERSON, sponsor of SB 282, gave the following
overview of the legislation. SB 282 was introduced on behalf of
the Chief of Police of the City of Soldotna who is affiliated with
the Police Chiefs' Association for the State of Alaska. This bill
changes the standard of proof in the statute related to child
endangerment from "intentionally" to "knowingly." The intentional
standard requires a higher standard of proof for prosecution.
Convictions of child endangerment have been successfully evaded,
based on the argument that the offender was not intent on harming
the child when he/she placed the child in dangerous circumstances.
The term "knowingly" reduces the legal standard to an act in which
a person knowingly places a child in a situation where harm could
result, thereby making the person responsible for that action.
SENATOR TORGERSON explained SB 282 also contains new language
regarding conduct which creates a substantial risk of physical
injury. This language is intended to apply to those situations in
which a parent engages in conduct, such as alcohol consumption or
drug use, that subsequently endangers the child.
Number 068
SENATOR GREEN questioned whether the definition of "recklessly
engaged in conduct" could be expanded to something that might
already be illegal, such as driving with a child in the back of a
truck, and whether it might be applied in ways that the sponsor did
not intend.
SENATOR TORGERSON said he was unsure, but that was not his intent.
SENATOR GREEN expressed concern that the definition might be too
open. She suggested reviewing the definition in the legislation in
the Senate Judiciary Committee.
SENATOR TORGERSON clarified the section of the statute that is
being amended by SB 282 does not refer to other types of
endangerment, but it is possible that it could be applied to other
situations.
Number 088
SENATOR GREEN asked if SB 282 changes the penalty from a
misdemeanor to a class C felony.
SENATOR TORGERSON said it does.
SENATOR GREEN asked if a class C felony is punishable by up to five
years in prison and a $50,000 fine, and whether that is the
sponsor's intent.
SENATOR TORGERSON said yes.
Number 101
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Senator Torgerson if he could provide
examples of cases that police departments have encountered in the
past to include in committee packets.
SENATOR TORGERSON stated Shirley Warner, police chief of Soldotna,
and the former Chief of Detectives for the Anchorage Police
Department, is very knowledgeable about the difference that
changing the standard will make in regard to child endangerment
cases. He stated Ms. Warner would be glad to share information on
that subject.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN said he thought examples to demonstrate the effect
of this legislation will help the argument to enact it.
SENATOR GREEN asked Senator Torgerson if he sponsored SB 282 on
behalf of the Police Chiefs' Association.
SENATOR TORGERSON clarified that he sponsored it at Ms. Warner's
request and that she brought it to the Police Chiefs' Association.
He said he does not have a resolution from that association but he
is aware that they discussed it and support it.
Number 125
DIANA BUFFINGTON, State Coordinator for the Childrens' Rights
Council of Alaska, testified in favor of SB 282. She stated SB 282
is one the few bills that will have no room for misinterpretation
or misuse by the Division of Family and Youth Services (DFYS).
Children are endangered when they are left alone in hotel rooms or
in trash cans at young ages; these types of occurrences are ever
increasing with young mothers. She stated her organization is one
of 34 chapters across the United States and it is very interested
in health and welfare issues. She repeated her wholehearted
support for SB 282.
BLAIR MCCUNE, Deputy Director of the Public Defender's Agency,
noted his agency submitted an indeterminate fiscal note on SB 282.
The agency is concerned that the bill will have a significant
fiscal impact on the criminal justice system but it has not been
able to devise hard numbers of potential cases at this time. DHSS
receives about 15,000 telephone reports of harm to children. Not
all reports are confirmed. Of the 15,000 reports, 4,312 of the
callers alleged some type of physical abuse. He suspected the
number of reports of harm would increase if the risk of physical
injury becomes an offense. Mr. McCune commented that current
criminal law defines physical injury as any type of pain or
impairment of physical condition. In general, when a physical
injury is involved, as opposed to a serious physical injury, the
offense is a misdemeanor. He pointed out that SB 282 would be
inconsistent in that it makes the same type of offense a class C
felony. He repeated his concern that this bill might have a big
impact on the criminal justice system.
Number 170
CHAIRMAN WILKEN indicated his intent to pass SB 282 on to the
Senate Judiciary Committee at which time Mr. McCune will have the
opportunity to provide more accurate figures for the fiscal note.
SENATOR WARD moved SB 282 out of committee with individual
recommendations and its accompanying fiscal notes. There being no
objection, the motion carried.
SB 331 - PROFESSIONAL COUNSELOR LICENSING
CHAIRMAN WILKEN announced a committee substitute (version F) had
been prepared for SB 331. SENATOR GREEN moved to adopt version F
as the working document of the committee. There being no
objection, the motion carried.
BETH HAGEVIG, staff to Senator Wilken, sponsor of the measure,
explained the changes in the committee substitute as follows. On
page 7, line 23, the word "appraisal" was changed to the word
"diagnosis." The Alaska Psychologists Association (APA) suggested
the word appraisal be used, but it was changed to diagnosis on the
advice of Catherine Reardon, who felt it should be used to reflect
the fact that counselors actually diagnose clients. On line 24,
the phrase "other than through the use of projective techniques"
was added as a courtesy to the APA and because the sponsor's staff
is of the opinion that no professional counselors practice
projective techniques. On page 29, the word "appraisal" was
changed to "evaluation" before the word "techniques" at the
suggestion of the APA. On page 8, Section 2 was added by the
Legislative Council. That section adds the Board of Licensed
Professional Counselors to the applicability of AS 08.01, which is
standard procedure for all boards. Section 4, beginning on line
27, is also a standard provision for all boards and provides for a
sunset date.
Number 244
CHAIRMAN WILKEN said when the committee reviewed this bill at a
previous meeting, there was discussion about merging this board
with the board of marriage and family therapists. He noted it is
not appropriate to do so at this time and it is a proposal best
left to the professional groups to work out. He asked Ms. Hagevig
if the groups she worked with on SB 331 agree with the bill's
content.
MS. HAGEVIG said they do and, although not all of the issues have
been hammered out, the groups have made progress.
Number 256
MR. ALAN MOROTTI, representing both the Alaska School Counselors'
Association and the University of Alaska Fairbanks Guidance and
Counseling Program, addressed his comments to the letter sent to
Senator Wilken, dated March 20, from Dr. Lane of the APA. In that
letter, Dr. Lane expressed concern that SB 331 does not require
counselors to meet stringent educational requirements similar to
those required for a psychological associate license. Mr. Morotti
explained APA's regulations address seven areas of study. Those
seven areas correspond to the eight areas of study put forward by
the Council for the Accreditation of Counseling and Educationally
Related Programs (CACERP), which is the accrediting arm of the
American Counseling Association. CSSB 331 specifically requires
counselors to have completed 60 semester hours plus 3,000 hours of
supervised experience after the master's degree. He believed those
requirements meet all of the criteria for a psychological associate
license. Mr. Morotti argued that counselors work with clients
moving through transitional issues and clients who need long term
supportive care for some type of mental illness and psychologists
perform many of the same duties; the line is not as clear between
the two professions as psychologists like to make out. Regarding
the involvement in the practice of diagnosis and evaluation, Mr.
Morotti stated no one mental health profession has the exclusive
ability to do that. He pointed out Dr. Lane is assuming that a
master's level trained counselor is not of the same level and
ability to diagnose and evaluate clients as psychological
associates, which flies in the face of reason, especially when 44
other states have licensure requirements for counselors. He
believes if Alaska is going to bring the counseling profession in
line with the rest of the nation, it is to the benefit of
counselors and consumers to require standards and licensure
requirements.
Number 333
MR. ROBERT POUND, representing the American Counseling Association
of Alaska (ACAA), made the following remarks. SB 331 appears to
have equivalent educational requirements to other bills pertaining
to mental health professions. Many people support this bill
because of the high cost of supervision which, at present, can only
be done by licensed psychologists or psychological associates.
Many counselors who received licenses from other states were
supervised by licensed psychiatrists, psychologists, and social
workers. Mr. Pound said he completed an internship, which included
diagnosis and treatment of clients, and he completed 2,000 hours of
supervised experience and then took the national board
certification test in order to obtain licensed professional
certification in the State of Colorado ten years ago. He then
practiced in Colorado yet he still cannot be certified under
Alaska's system. Many people in the counseling profession have
backgrounds and experience that they cannot get credit for,
including extensive hospital experience with patients with serious
psychopathology which provides an excellent training ground for
observation, diagnosis and treatment on a daily basis. Steps
required for the psychological associate license are not
necessarily higher than those for other programs that many
counselors who were trained in other states completed. The
psychological associate licensing steps require applicants to jump
more hurdles and they serve to decrease the number of qualified
professionals and increase the cost of licensing. Mr. Pound
thought this whole approach questions the integrity of the other
master's level licensed professionals, including licensed clinical
social workers and marriage and family therapists. A large number
of individuals in Alaska, who do not have insurance, and are low
income and/or homeless, need treatment and are served by agency
staff. They are not served by psychologists and are referred to
agencies because of their monetary status. Agency staff diagnose
and treat those types of people on a daily basis. Mr. Pound
concluded by saying that the information presented demonstrates
that SB 331 requires that licensed professional counselors be
adequately trained and it protects consumers against practice by
unqualified people.
Number 398
DR. ROBERT LANE, President-elect of the APA, stated that although
some psychologists are opposed to any sort of licensing for
master's level practitioners, that is not the APA's position. The
APA would like to see appropriate licensing requirements and
appropriate scopes of practice be established. In general, APA
believes most counseling programs prepare people to deliver
services within what is considered the normal range of human
development and human problems as opposed to mental disorders
listed in the DSM IV. The delivery of services by most master's
level people in agencies around the state is often supervised by
licensed clinical social workers or licensed psychologists and is
typically done as an independent practice. He commented his letter
to Senator Wilken contained proposed language to put appropriate
limits on the scope of practice for licensed professional
counselors. The APA is looking to this legislation to provide
appropriate scopes of practice, appropriate accountability, and to
serve the public in the best way possible.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN informed Dr. Lane that the committee received a
letter from Pamela Watts, President of the ACAA, in response to the
proposals in his letter and that she would be testifying shortly.
Number 427
MR. BAILEY REICHARD, staff at Southcentral Counseling, commented
that the level of training required for counselors is adequate,
that counselors are currently diagnosing and treating clients, and
they are making recommendations to psychologists and psychiatrists.
Psychologists and psychiatrists rely on counselors to assess and
diagnose clients because they do not have the time. Counselors
undergo internships and most have years of experience assessing and
diagnosing clients. He agreed with Mr. Pound that it is time to
give counselors their due. Counselors are not competing with
psychologists for clients; counselors often work with clients who
cannot afford psychologists' fees.
CATHRYN SIMON, a member of the American Counselors' Association of
Alaska, and a nationally certified counselor, made the following
statements. She was a certified mental health counselor in the
State of Washington for three years before moving to Alaska. She
pointed out SB 331 is the equivalent of Washington State's
counselor certification law. This bill will be advantageous to
consumers because it helps them to identify counselors who have met
state and national standards, and it establishes a grievance
procedure and a means of recourse when they have been victims of
unethical practices. Second, it gives clients more options for
meeting their mental health needs. The increase in the type and
number of licensed professionals translates to lower costs to
consumers without compromising the standard of care. Third, the
bill will increase the availability of services to consumers,
particularly for rural populations that have had poor access to
services. From the viewpoint of a professional counselor, MS.
SIMON said she is in favor of SB 331 because it allows counselors
to perform the job they were trained to do and can already do in
other states. She noted the point was made that counselors are
usually not in private practice. However, in other states that
have counselor licensure, master's level counselors do go into
private practice and can serve the populations they are trained to.
She stated she does not support individuals administering tests or
making diagnoses when they have not been properly trained, but the
professional code of ethics prohibits counselors from doing so,
and counselors are trained in those areas. Her position is that
all professionals who are properly trained to administer and
interpret tests, and to diagnose and treat mental illnesses, should
be allowed to do so regardless of their titles or the discipline to
which they belong. SB 331 is a right to work issue for
professional counselors. She urged committee members to support
the legislation.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN welcomed Senators Leman and Ellis.
Number 504
MS. PAMELA WATTS, President of the ACAA, stated that previous
speakers addressed most areas of concern with SB 331. She
indicated her letter to Senator Wilken, dated March 20, 1998,
contains a list of the general core areas of study that counseling
programs cover and she believes that list should cover Dr. Lane's
concern about the lack of specificity in the licensure bill. she
pointed out that although the specific course work is not listed in
the bill, that is the case with the social workers' licensing
requirements. A national examination will be required for
licensure of professional counselors; to take that examination,
individuals must graduate from a CACREP approved school. In
addition, every behavioral health professional receives on-the-job
training to become skilled in his/her specific area of expertise
during the 3,000 hour internship. Social workers, counselors and
psychologists often fine tune their areas of specialty during
internships.
MS. WATTS said the other area of concern expressed by Dr. Lane was
the broad definition of counseling and APA's belief that the
diagnosis and treatment of mental disorders should remain in the
purview of licensed psychologists or psychological associates. Ms.
Watts referred to other language in the bill, and said marriage and
family therapists are able to diagnose and treat mental and
emotional disorders that are referenced in the standard diagnostic
nomenclature, and social workers are able to use techniques of
applied psychotherapy of a non-medical nature to assist and
diagnose the treatment of mental and emotional conditions.
Counselors are not asking for any provisions different than those
provided to similarly educated and qualified behavioral health
professionals.
MS. WATTS said she spoke with Sheila Clarson of the APA earlier
this week who acknowledged that there is a diversity of opinion
among psychologists in the state about whether or not they support
counselor licensure. She noted the social workers board chose to
leave it up to individuals within that discipline to respond either
in support or in opposition to SB 331. Ms. Watts maintained the
ACAA has addressed the concerns of the APA and she asked committee
members to move the bill out of committee.
Number 551
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Dr. Lane if he had a copy of Ms. Watts'
letter. DR. LANE said the letter was just handed to him so he had
not had time to review it.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN informed Dr. Lane he planned to move the
legislation on to the Senate Judiciary Committee today where Dr.
Lane could develop a response to Ms. Watts' letter, if he so
desired.
Number 556
CATHERINE REARDON, director of the Division of Occupational
Licensing, stated this is a difficult type of legislation to deal
with because there are knowledgeable professionals who differ in
their opinions about the training and scopes of practice that
should be permitted. This difference is reflected in the boards of
marriage and family therapists, psychological examiners, and social
workers. The issues are further complicated by the fact that the
scopes of practice for the three behavioral health professions
already overlap. She stated her view on allowing professional
counselors to diagnose is that if the Legislature intends to permit
professional counselors to diagnose clients, that it be stated in
the bill to enable her to enforce the law. She thought it makes
sense that licensed counselors would be diagnosing clients. She
pointed out the reason diagnosis is a contentious issue is that
professionals must be able to assess the problem to fix it and also
because unless licensed professionals can identify a diagnosis for
insurance companies, billing and reimbursements are not possible.
TAPE 98-25, SIDE B
Number 574
MS. REARDON informed committee members the licensed counselors
would have to cover the costs of establishing and maintaining a
board. She did believe the license fee will be expensive because
her best estimate is that 250 people will choose to be licensed.
She said it is hard to know because SB 331 creates a title
restriction, not a practice restriction. If 250 people choose to
become licensed, the license fee will probably cost $400 to $700
for a two-year license. The fee will depend on operating costs,
especially related to investigations, because it is not as easy to
point to what is competent or incompetent counseling practice as it
is in professions such as accountacy.
Number 556
CHAIRMAN WILKEN questioned whether the other three boards have a
definition of "diagnosis" in statute.
MS. REARDON said no. The marriage and family therapist legislation
just says it means the diagnosis and treatments. The clinical
social workers board legislation cross references social work
principles and methods which refers to "assisting in the diagnosis
and treatment." The psychology board language says diagnosis,
prevention, treatment and amelioration of psychological problems.
MS. REARDON said professionals in these fields often refer to the
DSM IV, which is a commonly used diagnostic manual, and is accepted
by insurance companies. The DSM IV lists a series of
characteristics of different mental illnesses but it does not
contain different levels of seriousness.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Ms. Watts how many counselors she thought
would become licensed.
MS. WATTS estimated that there are 600 counselors in the State of
Alaska and she agreed that probably 250 to 300 of them would become
licensed. She thought that as time goes on, and the University
system becomes more aligned with national standards both in the
fields of psychology, counseling, and social work, more and more
people will become licensed in the state.
Number 528
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Ms. Reardon if she thought the people of
Alaska or the counselors would be better served by this
legislation.
MS. REARDON replied SB 331 will certainly be beneficial to the
development of the counseling profession. She thought it will help
in terms of providing access to a different type of behavioral
health treatment and more providers will be available, as long as
people do not do things they are not trained to do. She noted
family and marriage therapists are diagnosing right now so this
legislation will not create a new problem that does not already
have the potential to exist.
MS. WATTS added that in answer to whether or not consumers will be
better protected, she truly believes they will because this bill
will require more accountability for people who are already
providing counseling services. She believes one part of the bill
that will cover that problem is the limitation of practice
regulating individuals who might be tempted to practice beyond
their scope of expertise.
There being no further testimony on CSSB 331(HES), SENATOR LEMAN
moved the bill from committee with individual recommendations.
There being no objection, the motion carried.
The committee took a brief at-ease.
SB 252 - PATERNITY/CHILD SUPPORT/NONSUPPORT CRIMES
CHAIRMAN WILKEN informed committee members that the Department of
Revenue wrote a letter to the committee addressing several
questions that were raised during its previous hearing on SB 252.
He explained the content of that letter was rolled into a committee
substitute for SB 252 which is labeled "version B."
SENATOR LEMAN moved to adopt CSSB 252(HES), version B, as the
working document of the committee. SENATOR ELLIS objected for the
purpose of an explanation.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Barbara Miklos, Director of the Child Support
Enforcement Division, to provide the committee with an explanation
of the changes made in the committee substitute. MS. MIKLOS
deferred to Dan Branch of the Department of Law.
Number 460
DAN BRANCH, Assistant Attorney General, Department of Law,
explained the main changes in version B were made in response to
information received from the federal government and, in part,
because of information from the National Conference of State
Legislatures received from Senator Green during the last hearing.
The main difference between version B and the original version is
that version B removes the requirement that courts, in contempt
actions, can revoke the sport fishing and hunting licenses for
failure to honor a child support subpoena or paternity order.
Several provisions were removed throughout the bill that would have
given courts the authority to do that.
Number 447
SENATOR GREEN asked if the requirement to report anyone who has
applied for a sports license directly to CSED was removed.
MR. BRANCH asked for clarification of the question.
SENATOR GREEN asked if this bill passes, whether sports fishing and
hunting license applicants' names will not be entered into a CSED
database.
MR. BRANCH responded that federal mandates still require social
security numbers of applicants be provided on sports hunting and
fishing license applications. CSED has the right to access that
information to pass on to the federal government.
There being no further objection to the adoption of the committee
substitute, CSSB 252(HESS) was adopted.
MS. MIKLOS pointed out it is true that the social security number
reporting requirements are part of the federal statute, but there
is not going to be a process by which the Department of Fish and
Game will be reporting all license applicants' social security
numbers to CSED.
SENATOR WARD questioned whether there is a federal requirement to
do so, but CSED does not expect the Department of Fish and Game to
comply.
MS. MIKLOS clarified that the federal act requires that the social
security information be disclosed on the fishing license
application, so that will be collected, but there is no process by
which those numbers and names will be reported to CSED because
under this version of the bill, a fishing or hunting license can
only be taken away if ordered by a judge. She noted this version of
the bill differs from last year's version in the court order
requirement.
SENATOR WARD confirmed that the information would be gathered but
not disclosed.
MS. MIKLOS said the information would be available at the
Department of Fish and Game if someone asked for it, which is the
purpose of gathering the information.
SENATOR GREEN questioned whether that would mean that if CSED was
looking for a certain person and suspected the person had a fishing
license, CSED could request the Department of Fish and Game to do
a search for information on that person.
MS. MIKLOS said that was correct. She commented that the general
purpose behind proposing these revisions to the legislation was
the committee's concern that this legislation contain nothing other
than the provisions required by the federal government. Based on
the information received from the National Conference on State
Legislatures, plus information from the federal government,CSED
felt it could offer these amendments without jeopardizing its
mandate to meet federal requirements. She added this bill will be
traveling afar after leaving the HESS committee, and it is CSED's
intent to work with the Legislature to make this bill acceptable.
Number 400
SENATOR GREEN questioned whether there is a different reporting
standard that will be applied toward large employers with major
computer networks and access to getting information directly to
CSED, and small employers who do not have computer systems or a
mechanism by which to regularly report the names to CSED.
MS. MIKLOS said absolutely because the employer may choose the
mechanism by which they report. Many of the larger employers are
already transferring the information electronically. The smaller
employer may send CSED a form of their choice or a copy of W-4
forms.
SENATOR GREEN asked what the time frame is for transmitting W-4
forms.
MS. MIKLOS replied the federal requirement for all employers is 20
days.
SENATOR GREEN asked if CSED has a waiver process to where it can
make inquiries of smaller employers about new employees.
MS. MIKLOS answered CSED could, but CSED is willing to work with
smaller employers to set up systems that work for them.
Number 378
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Senator Ward if he could provide any
information to the committee about the status of similar
legislation in the State of Idaho.
SENATOR WARD stated the State of Idaho received a formal notice
from the federal Department of Health and Human Services that
stated it did not approve of the State of Idaho's plan to comply.
He asked Ms. Miklos whether the State of Alaska has received such
a notice.
MS. MIKLOS said she had not.
SENATOR WARD indicated when the State of Idaho received its notice,
it requested a formal hearing. He asked Ms. Miklos at what point
she thought the State of Alaska would receive such a notice from
the Department of Health and Social Services disapproving a lack of
action on the part of the Legislature, concerning this legislation.
MS. MIKLOS replied that in her discussion with representatives of
the federal government, she thinks it would be shortly after the
legislative session ended.
SENATOR WARD asked, at that time, if the Legislature has taken no
action or an action deemed inadequate by the federal government,
then the State of Alaska would immediately have to file a request
for a formal hearing. He also asked if any other states have filed
formal requests for hearings.
MS. MIKLOS said the State of Idaho did and that states are required
to file within 60 days, otherwise the loss of federal funds is
automatic. Requesting a formal hearing provides a state with an
opportunity to discuss with federal officials the reasons for non-
compliance and an additional 60 days to comply. She did not know
of any state that has had a formal hearing.
SENATOR WARD asked if the State of Florida has requested a formal
hearing.
Number 351
MS. MIKLOS said she did not know, but the states that have
requested the hearings are doing so because they must. She added
that legislation has passed the Idaho House of Representatives and
is now in the second reading the Senate as of yesterday, in order
to comply with the federal requirements. She believed the Idaho
Legislature will be adjourning shortly so CSED should know what
action it took within a week or so.
SENATOR WARD indicated his understanding is that the Idaho Senate
is working on a committee substitute right now.
There being no further questions or testimony about the
legislation, SENATOR GREEN moved CSSB 252(HESS) out of committee
with individual recommendations, with the understanding that she
would be working on this legislation in the Senate Resources
Committee. There being no objection, the motion carried.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN adjourned the meeting at 10:15 a.m.
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