Legislature(1997 - 1998)
01/23/1998 09:00 AM Senate HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE
January 23, 1998
9:00 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Gary Wilken, Chairman
Senator Loren Leman, Vice-Chairman
Senator Lyda Green
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Jerry Ward
Senator Johnny Ellis
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 170(HES)
"An Act relating to interference with the rights of physically and
mentally challenged persons; and relating to service animals during
their pre-training and training period."
HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
HB 170 - No previous Senate committee action.
WITNESS REGISTER
Representative Tom Brice
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 170.
Jessica Irmen
P.O. Box 4191
Soldotna, Alaska 99669
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 170.
Rae Baggen
5311 Halibut Point Road
Sitka, Alaska 99835
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 170.
Suzanne Price
P.O. Box 84951
Fairbanks, Alaska 99708
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 170.
Serena Murray
P.O. Box 2598
Kenai, Alaska 99611
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 170.
Roger Hansen
4-H Club
1887 Southern Ave.
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 170.
Sharon Bell
Access Alaska
3550 Airport Way, Suite 3
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 170.
David Jacobsen, Director
Access Alaska
4214 Mathison Court
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 170.
Dan Labrosse
Deaf Community Services
475 Hall Street
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 170.
Vicki Horodyski
North Star Council of the Blind
1035 Ballaine Road
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 170.
Amorette Kennedy
Guide Dog Trainers
P.O. Box 11
Ninilchik, Alaska 99639
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 170.
Cheryl Hall
Southeast Alaska Independent Living
P.O. Box 35097
Juneau, Alaska 99803
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 170 with changes.
Patty Baumgartner
P.O. Box 21491
Juneau, Alaska 99802
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 170 with changes.
Diane Biggness
9147 Parkwood Drive
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 170 with changes.
Lynn Koral
Alaska Independent Blind
1102 W International Airport Road
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 170.
Nancy Andison
9346 Parview Court
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 170 with changes.
Darrin Jones
P.O. Box 33265
Juneau, Alaska 99803
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 170.
Barbara Turner
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 170.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 98-4, SIDE A
Number 001
HB 170 - SERVICE ANIMALS FOR PHYS/MENT. CHALLENGED
CHAIRMAN WILKEN called the Senate Health, Education and Social
Services (HESS) Committee to order at 9:06 a.m. Present were
Senators Wilken, Leman, and Green. The first order of business
before the committee was HB 170.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE, sponsor of HB 170, gave the following
overview of the bill. The American Disabilities Act (ADA) requires
access to public accommodations for the disabled. HB 170 extends
that right to animals being trained as service animals so that
those animals can be socialized in areas where they will be
providing services. HB 170 does not establish state certification
or determine who can train service animals. It only allows
trainers access to places such as state court buildings, the ferry
system, and the Palmer and Tanana fairs.
Number 066
SENATOR LEMAN suggested changing the penalty from a class B
misdemeanor to a violation to streamline the process.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said the penalty was designated as a class B
misdemeanor by the legal drafters to be consistent with the penalty
established in AS 11.76.130 (interfering with the rights of
disabled persons). He noted if the committee feels a violation is
more appropriate, he would be agreeable to that change.
SENATOR LEMAN thought the Senate Judiciary committee would be the
appropriate place to address the penalty issue and noted his
interest in reclassifying the penalty is to accomplish the same
goal while using a less burdensome process. SENATOR LEMAN asked
Representative Brice to find out the number of misdemeanors
prosecuted under that statute.
Number 112
SENATOR GREEN said she spoke with staff at the Palmer State Fair
about the incidents in which animals in training were not permitted
on the fairgrounds. Fairground staff are reviewing the policy but
suspect the problem is insurance related. She expects a response
from fairground staff next week. She suggested amending the bill
to require trainers and service dogs in training to have some form
of identification so that proprietors can easily determine whether
the dog and trainer are legitimately on the premises.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE pointed out Section 2(C) prohibits a
proprietor from being charged if the trainer does not provide
reasonable evidence of authorization to train a service animal. He
said most trainers wear a coat that is easily recognizable and the
animals usually wear a green cape.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Representative Brice to consider Senator
Leman's comments about the penalty provision and to provide the
committee with new language or suggestions to resolve the issue.
He then took telelconference testimony.
JESSICA IRMEN, representing Guide Dog Raisers in Alaska, spent 1+
years raising a guide dog puppy for the blind. Service dogs in
training have already had obedience training as puppies and can
enter any public facility and behave appropriately. She emphasized
it is crucial that guide dogs in training have access to all public
facilities and as many different situations as possible to be
successful.
RAE BAGGEN, testifying from Sitka, said it is very important that
the disabled have the ability to come and go within their
communities, in both rural and urban areas. She stated the expense
of getting a trained service dog from other states can be
prohibitive. She commended the committee for its work.
Number 250
SUZANNE PRICE, representing Guide Dog Raisers in Alaska, made the
following comments. She has raised guide dog puppies for close to
30 years and recently raised a dog for Leader Dogs for the Blind,
sponsored by the Lions Club. Alaska represents a few programs that
socialize and train service animals. Guide dogs must be
familiarized with the places the new owner will be going. Places
that have posed problems in the past are the state office building,
the state ferry, the state fair, the Court buildings and the large
mall in downtown Anchorage; the only one in Alaska that
approximates malls in the Lower 48. Most private businesses in
Fairbanks have been extremely cooperative with trainers. The
Leader Dog Project, run by the 4-H Club, operates without
government money: the work is voluntary, and the blind person
receives the dog free of charge. The 4-H Club believes it is
important to show youth the value of giving back to the community
by providing free training.
ROGER HANSEN, representing the 4-H Club, testified. He has raised
about 30 guide dogs over 30 years and has been asked to leave many
establishments because a dog in training was accompanying him.
Puppy raisers in the 4-H program do carry insurance yet he has
never seen or heard of any damage done by any dogs while training
in public.
SHARON BELL, representing Access Alaska, and herself as a legally
blind person, stated her support for HB 170. Puppies need to have
access to public places early in life so that they can learn more
specific skills in their second year of life.
DAVID JACOBSEN, Director of the Anchorage and Fairbanks programs of
Access Alaska, and representing himself as a legally blind person,
testified in support of HB 170. The disabled need the opportunity
for integration in their communities, and to live and/or work
independently. Service animals are one tool necessary to obtain
those goals.
Number 343
DAN LABROSSE stated he works with Deaf Community Services in
Fairbanks, and has worked with clients who use hearing aid dogs.
Although those dogs usually wear orange-collared capes for
identification, he has seen clients encounter problems with
employers and private businesses. He supports HB 170 because
hearing aid dogs are as vital to a person's independence as seeing
eye guide dogs, as well as other service animals for the physically
impaired. He believed it is important to keep the class B
misdemeanor penalty classification for the purpose of consistency.
VICKY HORODYSKI, representing the North Star Council for the Blind,
testified in support of HB 170. Some of her members use service
dogs rather than seeing-eye guide dogs. She believes guide dogs
can be more easily trained if training begins when they are
puppies, and that using volunteers for training provides more
puppies at a lower cost.
SERENA MURRAY, representing Guide Dog Trainers, testified from
Kenai. She said that access to all public facilities by puppies in
training will ultimately benefit the dogs' users the most.
AMORETTE KENNEDY, representing the 4-H Guide Dog Raisers, has found
that businesses on the Kenai Peninsula are generally very
supportive of this project, but noted she has been asked to leave
some. She agreed dogs in training need socialization as early as
possible. 4-H trainers take training seriously and feel it is
important to educate the public about what they are doing.
Number 420
CHAIRMAN WILKEN noted three service dogs were attending the hearing
and that two were napping.
CHERYL HALL, Assistant Director of Southeast Alaska Independent
Living (SAIL), stated support for the issue. Some disabled
people's lives and their ability to be independent are vastly
improved with the aid of service animals. No longer are guide dogs
only for the blind; animals are now trained to help deaf and
physically challenged people. Training in public places is
imperative so that puppies can be exposed to situations which they
will eventually confront, such as malls, traffic, airplanes,
ferries, and people. Several of SAIL's consumers have expressed
concern that animals they train on their own may have to go outside
of Alaska to receive specialized training for certification.
MS. HALL explained the ADA provided for the use of service animals
by the disabled by requiring that the animals be qualified, not
certified. By using the word "qualified," those who want to train
their animals with community assistance may do so, but the animal
must behave appropriately and be identified in some way. The
standard is more important than certification. The animal must be
obedience-trained and then trained to a high standard in a
particular discipline. Once sent out of state, most of the puppies
being socialized in Alaska do not return. Southeast residents are
interested in having their animals locally trained because the
terrain is different; the weather and lighting conditions are
unique, roads are not paved in many communities, and concrete
sidewalks do not exist. She said one of her clients is 55, lives
in a rural area, and has been told by three schools that it will
take at least six years to get a dog. Over the past year, SAIL has
been working with the Gastineau Humane Society to train animals
from the pound as service animals. At present, one dog is being
trained to be a hearing dog. After the dog's training, the dog
will be a qualified service animal; the legislation needs to
address this type of situation.
PATTY BAUMGARTNER, an artist and advocate for people with
disabilities, testified in support of HB 170, but expressed the
following concerns. The word "certified" presents a problem
because a puppy cannot be certified while in training. The ADA
uses the word "qualified." Currently no state certification
program exists therefore no local trainers can be certified. She
noted she has provided local training for dogs who are already
certified.
SENATOR GREEN asked if Ms. Baumgartner has been asked to leave
establishments even though her dog is fully trained. MS.
BAUMGARTNER said she had. SENATOR GREEN asked if HB 170 would
change that. MS. BAUMGARTNER said she and her dog graduated as a
working team, but there is no one to certify them in Alaska. She
noted using the word "certified" in HB 170 implies that there will
be a certification program. She repeated the ADA requires animals
to be qualified, not certified. She warned, however, the disabled
community is concerned that unscrupulous people will bring their
pets in public places under the guise of service dog training.
SENATOR GREEN noted her continuing concern that HB 170 does not
address the problem of shop owners prohibiting trainers with fully
trained dogs from entering their premises. She felt there should
be a quick identification mechanism on the animal in training so
that the trainer does not have to seek out permission to be on the
premises.
MS. BAUMGARTNER suggested having the Division of Motor Vehicles
issue IDs, similar to those issued for search and rescue dogs, and
requiring the dogs to wear some identifying tag or marker.
DIANE BIGGNESS, a Juneau shop owner, stated strong support for HB
170, but discussed two problems with the bill. The first is in
Section 2(a) and refers to the authorized person in charge of
training the dog. The definition of "authorized" requires the
person to be employed by, or serving as a volunteer with, a school,
agency, or other facility that trains service animals. No such
agency exists in Southeast yet many qualified people train dogs
here. That requirement would either negate the training that is
currently occurring, or would force the government to establish a
school or an agency to authorize existing trainers. Changing the
word to "qualified" and offering an identification mechanism would
allow trainers like Ms. Baumgartner to continue training.
MS. BIGGNESS explained the second problem is the use of the term
"certified animal" because a dog in training is not certified. She
explained a lengthy process occurs before one can determine whether
a dog is qualified to be trained. Therefore, many dogs are pre-trained but do
SENATOR GREEN clarified the term "certified service animal" is in
existing law, and does not refer to animals in training.
MS. BIGGNESS repeated her concern with the word "authorized."
Number 578
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE explained that the word "authorized" was
intended to mean some sort of affiliation with an organization,
such as SAIL. He noted this issue was discussed last session, and
he wanted to stay away from the idea of certification in this bill.
His intent is to simply have a trainer affiliate with an
organization that is training dogs.
MS. BIGGNESS responded that is why she felt the word "qualified"
was better than "authorized" because existing trainers will have to
contact and align with an agency to continue to train.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Representative Brice to work with Ms.
Biggness and others involved on that problem before the bill is
rescheduled.
Number 565
SENATOR GREEN thought the definition of the word "authorized"
should provide for qualified trainers who do not want to be
affiliated with a school or agency.
LYNN KORAL, State President of the Alaska Independent Blind, stated
she disagreed with previous speakers for the following reasons.
Certain schools do come to Alaska to do domicile training.
Standards are critical otherwise animals may not get adequate
training. She questioned why all agencies should be given the
right to say they can train dogs. Her association is not
interested in stopping people from using dogs as guide dogs, but it
does want to see some training standards required to protect the
people who rely on trained dogs. MS. KORAL said she does support
allowing service dogs in training to have access to public
facilities.
Number 505
NANCY ANDISON, representing herself, had her service dog deliver
paperwork to Chairman Wilken. She explained that the paperwork is
a collection of comments she received from the public about her
dog. She trained her dog from the start after being told it would
take seven or eight years to get a dog from a training program.
She would have had to travel to California for three weeks for the
training which would have been expensive and impractical for her.
She believes it does not matter who trains the animals, if the dog
can meet certain standards, just as it is not important who teaches
a person to drive if that person passes the test, and that
eventually standards will be established. In the meantime, there
are a lot of people who realize that puppies in training need to be
socialized at an early age. She expressed concern about language
in HB 170 requiring trainers to be affiliated with a school. She
stressed that many schools have waiting lists of many years for
trained dogs. She also expressed concern about the lack of
identification for trainers. She stated she is very supportive of
HB 170, except for the concerns she mentioned. She asked anyone
interested on the teleconference to call her to work on this
legislation.
DARRIN JONES, representing the Gastineau Humane Society, stated
that whether the word certified or qualified is used, situations in
Alaska are quite unique. He noted that because of the size of
Alaska, it is sometimes difficult and impractical for an owner to
travel to the Lower 48 to train their dog. He expressed concern
that non-disabled pet owners will take advantage of the legislation
if the word "qualified" is used, and that a poorly trained guide
dog can be a danger to its owner. He felt no matter which word is
used, someone will have to ensure that the dog is adequately
trained.
BARBARA TURNER, representing herself, stated her service dog is
able to pull her wheelchair, and alerts her when the doorbell
rings, since she is hearing impaired. Her dog began training when
he was seven years old. She would have to wait two to five years
to get a dog from a school. The only documentation she has for her
service dog is paperwork from SAIL, which is updated annually.
BARBARA IRMEN clarified that Guide Dog puppy raisers do carry
training identification.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN repeated his intent to hold the legislation for
further work. He thanked all participants and adjourned the
meeting at 9:50 a.m.
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