Legislature(2005 - 2006)BUTROVICH 205


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Moved SB 83 Out of Committee
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                               
                       February 14, 2005                                                                                        
                           1:33 p.m.                                                                                            
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
Senator Fred Dyson, Chair                                                                                                       
Senator Gary Wilken, Vice Chair                                                                                                 
Senator Lyda Green                                                                                                              
Senator Kim Elton                                                                                                               
Senator Donny Olson                                                                                                             
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
SENATE BILL NO. 83                                                                                                              
"An  Act relating  to the  retaining of  certain privileges  of a                                                               
parent in a relinquishment and  termination of a parent and child                                                               
relationship  proceeding; relating  to eligibility  for permanent                                                               
fund dividends for certain children  in the custody of the state;                                                               
relating  to  child  in  need of  aid  proceedings  and  juvenile                                                               
delinquency proceedings; and providing for an effective date."                                                                  
     MOVED SB 83 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                               
SENATE BILL NO. 82                                                                                                              
"An  Act   relating  to  child  protection,   including  forensic                                                               
interviews and  transportation of children; and  providing for an                                                               
effective date."                                                                                                                
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
BILL: SB 83                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE: TERM. PARENTAL RTS/CINA/DELINQUENCY CASES                                                                          
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
01/26/05       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/26/05       (S)       HES, JUD                                                                                               
02/14/05       (S)       HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
BILL: SB 82                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE: CHILD PROTECTION INTERVIEW/TRANSPORT                                                                               
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
01/26/05       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/26/05       (S)       HES, JUD                                                                                               
02/14/05       (S)       HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
Stacie Kraly, Senior Assistant Attorney General                                                                                 
Department of Law                                                                                                               
PO Box 110300                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99811-0300                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports SB 83 and SB 82.                                                                                
Marcia Kennai                                                                                                                   
Department of Health & Social Services                                                                                          
PO Box 110601                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99801-0601                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports SB 83 and SB 82.                                                                                
Scott Calder                                                                                                                    
Fairbanks, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposes SB 83 and SB 82.                                                                                 
Betty Rollins                                                                                                                   
Fairbanks, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposes SB 83 and SB 82.                                                                                 
Rosemary Hagevig                                                                                                                
Catholic Community Services                                                                                                     
Juneau, AK 99801                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports SB 82.                                                                                          
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
CHAIR FRED DYSON  called the Senate Health,  Education and Social                                                             
Services  Standing  Committee meeting  to  order  at 1:33:10  PM.                                                             
Present  were  Senators Kim  Elton,  Lyda  Green and  Chair  Fred                                                               
        SB 83-TERM. PARENTAL RTS/CINA/DELINQUENCY CASES                                                                     
CHAIR DYSON announced SB 83 to be up for consideration.                                                                         
1:34:29 PM                                                                                                                    
STACIE KRALY,  Senior Assistant  Attorney General,  Department of                                                               
Law (DOL)  thanked the committee  for the opportunity  to present                                                               
SB  83.  SB 83  relates  to  child protection  systems.  Specific                                                               
provisions include  a proposal  to amend  AS 25.23.180  to permit                                                               
parents  to  relinquish  their parental  rights  while  retaining                                                               
certain privileges such as  ongoing communication and visitation.                                                               
SB 83  adds language  to AS 43.23.005  which allows  for children                                                               
placed temporarily  outside of the  State of Alaska, but  who are                                                               
in  custody  through either  the  Office  of Children's  Services                                                               
(OCS)  or the  Division of  Juvenile Justice  (DJJ), to  maintain                                                               
their  eligibility  to  receive  their  Permanent  Fund  Dividend                                                               
1:36:45 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DYSON asked Ms. Kraly if she was referring to Section 2.                                                                  
MS.  KRALY answered  yes.  Sections  3 and  4  of  SB 83  provide                                                               
language to  AS 47.10.020,  which clarifies  the existing  law to                                                               
allow  OCS  to obtain  writ  of  assistance  from the  courts  in                                                               
investigating  reports of  harm in  other child  related matters.                                                               
The second  component of  the section clarifies  that the  DOL or                                                               
OCS is not required to  obtain authorization from the court prior                                                               
to initiating an investigation on a report of harm.                                                                             
CHAIR  DYSON  asked  if  the  clarification  involves  getting  a                                                               
MS. KRALY answered yes.                                                                                                         
1:38:31 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. KRALY said  Sections 5 and 6 would allow  the DOL to dispense                                                               
with some of  the evidentiary formalities in a  court hearing and                                                               
would allow  the DOL  to create  an offer of  proof to  the court                                                               
that  it would  be contrary  to the  welfare of  the child  to be                                                               
returned  to  an  absent  parent. Section  5  creates  a  limited                                                               
evidentiary premise for absent and unlocateable parents.                                                                        
1:40:10 PM                                                                                                                    
The final  provision of  SB 83  relates to  amending the  term of                                                               
mental health professional to allow  an out of state professional                                                               
to testify  on behalf of  an Alaskan child  who is placed  out of                                                               
state, but who is in state custody.                                                                                             
SENATOR OLSON joined the committee at 1:41.                                                                                     
1:41:56 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  GREEN asked  Ms.  Kraly  to describe  the  out of  state                                                               
facilities where children are being placed.                                                                                     
MS.  KRALY  said  the  placement  facilities  are  out  of  state                                                               
residential psychiatric treatment facilities.  They are the types                                                               
of residential secure  facilities that do not  currently exist in                                                               
SENATOR GREEN  mentioned her concern  about the  acceptability of                                                               
allowing out of  state mental health professionals  to testify on                                                               
behalf of Alaskan children.                                                                                                     
MS. KRALY said if  a child has been at an  out of state facility,                                                               
the professionals at that facility  probably know the child best,                                                               
but under the current law, they  cannot testify on behalf of that                                                               
child in Alaska as an expert witness.                                                                                           
1:43:52 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  GREEN said  eliminating the  requirement of  a committee                                                               
referral  might  affect  the  state's  ability  to  independently                                                               
assess whether  or not  these children  should return  to Alaska.                                                               
She said that  she was concerned about deferring  this ability to                                                               
an out of state organization  that has an interest in maintaining                                                               
it's cliental.                                                                                                                  
MS. KRAILY said this statutory  change would only relate to those                                                               
children  who  are in  state  custody.  The  OCS goes  through  a                                                               
thorough  process to  make  a determination  that  a child  needs                                                               
secure  residential  psychiatric  treatment.  Then  the  superior                                                               
court must approve  the placement of that child  after it reviews                                                               
expert  testimony on  the case.  By  statute, every  90 days  the                                                               
child must come back before  the superior court for an additional                                                               
SENATOR  GREEN asked  whether  a child  who  leaves Alaska  falls                                                               
under Medicaid after 90 days.                                                                                                   
MS. KRAILY answered they do.                                                                                                    
SENATOR GREEN  remarked the  state put  children on  Medicaid and                                                               
children  in state  custody  in the  same  classification; so  it                                                               
should  not make  any difference  whether a  child starts  out in                                                               
state custody  and ends up  on Medicaid.  She asked if  this bill                                                               
would affect children on Medicaid.                                                                                              
MS.  KRALY  answered no.  It  would  require an  internal  review                                                               
within the DOL to ensure  the child still meets medical necessity                                                               
to maintain Medicaid payments.                                                                                                  
SENATOR GREEN remarked that review  boards in other states do not                                                               
have the  same committee concept  of Alaska and this  has created                                                               
difficulties. She said  that she wants to be sure  that this bill                                                               
does not further contribute to these difficulties.                                                                              
MS. KENNAI, Department of Health  and Social Services (DHSS) said                                                               
SB 83  only refers  to children  under custody,  who consequently                                                               
have been through a long review  process. The bill does not refer                                                               
to private-pay children at all.                                                                                                 
1:49:47 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON  asked the  jurisdiction of a  child placed  out of                                                               
state transfers  to the new  state if  the parent or  guardian of                                                               
the child leaves the state. He  noted under the provisions of the                                                               
Permanent  Fund Dividend  statutes,  one  must demonstrate  one's                                                               
intent  to  return  to  the  State of  Alaska  and  it  would  be                                                               
difficult  for a  parent  or  guardian who  leaves  the state  to                                                               
demonstrate their child's intent to return.                                                                                     
MS. KENNAI said no,  the child is in the custody  of the State of                                                               
Alaska. If a  parent moves out of state and  the child returns to                                                               
the State of Alaska, a hearing  is held to either reunify the two                                                               
or to relinquish  custody. In either case, the  PFD trust follows                                                               
the child.                                                                                                                      
SENATOR  ELTON  said it  seems  that  if the  state  relinquishes                                                               
custody  and there  is no  one in  the state  for whom  to assign                                                               
custody, the child may be released to someone outside the state.                                                                
1:53:05 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. KENNAI acknowledged  that although it could  happen, it would                                                               
only happen  rarely. In  any event a  permanent fund  dividend in                                                               
trust for that child would go wherever that child goes.                                                                         
CHAIR DYSON  asked if  Section 2  is subject  to a  best interest                                                               
finding by the court.                                                                                                           
MS. KRALY answered yes. It is  also subject to a determination by                                                               
the foster or adoptive parent.                                                                                                  
CHAIR DYSON referred to the last  sentence of Section 1 and asked                                                               
Ms. Kraly to clarify what the language means.                                                                                   
MS. KRALY  said it  means that  a parent's  failure to  utilize a                                                               
certain   privilege  is   not   sufficient   to  invalidate   his                                                               
1:55:53 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DYSON  said he reads it  to say the relinquishment  may not                                                               
be withdrawn or invalidated.                                                                                                    
MS. KRALY advised she would look at it again.                                                                                   
SENATOR GREEN  asked, "In the  decision making of  best interest,                                                               
do  you open  yourself to  determinations, appeals,  and lawsuits                                                               
from a parent  who is not pleased with the  court's best interest                                                               
MS.  KRALY admitted  it was  always a  possibility and  added the                                                               
parent  has a  right  to  appeal a  decision  by  the court.  The                                                               
current  status of  the  law  says you  can  have no  conditional                                                               
relinquishments.  She noted that  there are not very many appeals                                                               
for relinquishment rulings.                                                                                                     
1:59:17 PM                                                                                                                    
SCOTT  CALDER, Fairbanks  resident, stated  his concern  that the                                                               
term  relinquishment is  used in  such a  way that  it makes  the                                                               
process seem voluntary  despite other language in  the bill which                                                               
indicates that  it is  not always  voluntary.   He said  that the                                                               
language of the  bill conflicts with the 4th  amendment rights of                                                               
children  and  parents  since  it   allows  seizure  without  due                                                               
process.   He  suggested replacing  the term  "reasonable search"                                                               
with "diligent  search" on page 2,  section 5, lines 7  to 10. He                                                               
suggested   including  an   explicit  definition   of  the   word                                                               
"diligent" in the bill.                                                                                                         
2:04:49 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DYSON  asked whether the term  "diligent" is a term  of art                                                               
in the legal field.                                                                                                             
MS. KRALY answered it is not.                                                                                                   
     The premise through which  the department can establish                                                                    
     proceeding against  an absent parent through  the court                                                                    
     rules  is  very  prescribed.   There  are  due  process                                                                    
     requirements for  those kinds  of proceedings.  We have                                                                    
     to provide notice  to parents and relatives.  If we are                                                                    
     looking for a termination  prescription we have to file                                                                    
     a  petition  with  the  court.  We  make  extraordinary                                                                    
     efforts  to find  parents and  if we  can't find  them,                                                                    
     then per  the Civil Rules,  we must conduct  a diligent                                                                    
     inquiry. We  file an affidavit  with the court  and ask                                                                    
     the  court   for  permission  to  provide   service  by                                                                    
     publication, which is authorized  under Civil Rule 4 of                                                                    
     the Code  of Civil  Procedure rules.  If the  parent is                                                                    
     still  not  found  after publication,  we  provide  the                                                                    
     court  with   an  affidavit  of  diligent   inquiry  to                                                                    
     establish that the parent is  not locatable. This would                                                                    
     include an  affidavit from  the social  worker involved                                                                    
     in  the  case,  a department  paralegal,  a  department                                                                    
     attorney, who will indicate that  they have worked with                                                                    
     child enforcement,  the state troopers,  the department                                                                    
     of corrections,  the local police,  et cetera.  We have                                                                    
     to present  all of that  to the court before  the court                                                                    
     will agree that the parent  is unlocateable. It's not a                                                                    
     term  of art,  but a  reasonable search  is not  just a                                                                    
     social worker  saying, "Well, we  can't find  them", or                                                                    
     an  attorney standing  up and  saying,  "We can't  find                                                                    
     them" We  have to  go through  a very  thorough process                                                                    
     through the civil rules to establish that.                                                                                 
2:07:13 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DYSON  asked whether that  was established in  Alaska court                                                               
MS. KRALY  answered it was  established in  the Child In  Need of                                                               
Aid (CINA) and Civil Rules.                                                                                                     
MR. CALDER  agreed with the aforementioned  explanation and asked                                                               
if there could be some reference made to it in SB 83.                                                                           
CHAIR DYSON advised he  would send a note with SB  83 so that the                                                               
Judiciary Committee could consider it.                                                                                          
2:08:57 PM                                                                                                                    
BETTY ROLLINS,  Fairbanks resident,  testified in  agreement with                                                               
Mr. Calder. She expressed concern with  Section 1 and asked if it                                                               
negated case law  that says the child shall become  a stranger to                                                               
the  biological family.  She  shared  Senator Dyson's  hesitation                                                               
over  the last  section because  it has  no teeth.  She disagreed                                                               
with the assertion  in section 4 saying the court  would order an                                                               
investigation, since  she has never  seen a court order  any type                                                               
of investigation.                                                                                                               
2:10:06 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WILKEN moved SB 83 out of committee with individual                                                                     
recommendations and zero fiscal note. There being no objections,                                                                
the motion carried.                                                                                                             
           SB 82-CHILD PROTECTION INTERVIEW/TRANSPORT                                                                       
CHAIR DYSON announced SB 82 to be up for consideration.                                                                         
2:15:23 PM                                                                                                                    
STACIE KRALY, Senior Assistant Attorney General, Department of                                                                  
Law, (DOL) introduced SB 82.                                                                                                    
     This  legislation would  allow  the DOL  and Office  of                                                                    
     Child Services  (OCS) to transport a  child for medical                                                                    
     examination and or  forensic interview without parental                                                                    
     consent in  cases where  the department  has reasonable                                                                    
     cause  to  suspect  that  a  child  has  been  severely                                                                    
     physically or  sexually abused. Interviews  of children                                                                    
     who appear  to have suffered severe  physical or sexual                                                                    
     abuse would be conducted  in an appropriate environment                                                                    
     that is not threatening to the child.                                                                                      
     It   is  not   always  possible   to  obtain   parental                                                                    
     cooperation to  transport a  child for  examination and                                                                    
     interview.  This  bill   considers  that  children  are                                                                    
     usually transported  to an  advocacy center,  which are                                                                    
     designed   to   be    safe,   neutral,   child-friendly                                                                    
     environments  where  children  can  be  interviewed  by                                                                    
     professionals  with special  training  in those  areas.                                                                    
     They  are  also  designed  to minimize  the  number  of                                                                    
     interviews in an  effort to minimize the  trauma of the                                                                    
     child  as   much  as   possible.  This   bill  includes                                                                    
     notifying  a  non-offending parent,  when  appropriate,                                                                    
     that  his child  is being  transported to  the advocacy                                                                    
     center  for an  interview.  There  are cases,  however,                                                                    
     when either  there is neither no  alleged non-offending                                                                    
     parent that is both parents  are involved in the abuse,                                                                    
     or  the department  is  unsure  that the  non-offending                                                                    
     parent  would be  cooperative  and we  do  not want  to                                                                    
     provide notice to them.                                                                                                    
     As  the  statute currently  exists,  in  order for  the                                                                    
     department  or  the OCS  to  transport  a child  to  an                                                                    
     advocacy  center for  these interviews,  the department                                                                    
     theoretically  would have  to assume  emergency custody                                                                    
     of that  child and  we want to  avoid having  to assume                                                                    
     emergency  custody  in   those  instances  when,  after                                                                    
     interview, it is not warranted.                                                                                            
2:17:51 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DYSON asked  Ms. Kraly how the bill differs  from a case in                                                               
which  a law  enforcement officer  removes a  child from  what he                                                               
considers a dangerous situation and takes him to be evaluated.                                                                  
MS.  KRALY said  SB 82  covers cases  in which  there are  no law                                                               
enforcement  personnel  available  to transport  children  to  be                                                               
CHAIR DYSON asked if this law  would give an OCS investigator the                                                               
same authority as a police officer.                                                                                             
MS. KRALY said SB 82 would give an investigator such authority.                                                                 
CHAIR  DYSON said  he is  uncomfortable with  the words  "without                                                               
notifying parents."  There is a difference  between notifying and                                                               
giving  permission and  OCS has  a responsibility  to notify  the                                                               
MARCIE KENNAI,  Department of Health and  Social Services (DHSS),                                                               
said  that the  current practice  is  to always  notify the  non-                                                               
offending  parent. Currently  DHSS has  the authority  to take  a                                                               
child to  a hospital in the  case of physical abuse,  but it does                                                               
not  have that  authority  in the  case of  sexual  abuse. he  is                                                               
concerned about  sexual abuse  cases since  research demonstrates                                                               
that most  children tend to  be telling  the truth and  sending a                                                               
child home to  that parent is a concern because  the child can be                                                               
coached on the way to the advocacy center.                                                                                      
2:20:57 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DYSON expressed his concern  about a parent not knowing the                                                               
location of his child. He said  even if the parent is the abuser,                                                               
the parent  ought to  be notified.  He said he  did not  like the                                                               
term  "non-offending parent"  because most  abused children  come                                                               
from single-family homes.                                                                                                       
MS.  KRALY said  SB 82  addresses Senator  Dyson's concern  about                                                               
notification and  permission and  referenced Version \A,  page 1,                                                               
lines 11-13, as follows:                                                                                                        
     The department  shall notify the parents,  guardian, or                                                                    
     custodian of a  child as soon as  possible after taking                                                                    
     action under this subsection with regard to the child.                                                                     
MS. KRALY  said the aforementioned  referent ensures  that notice                                                               
is provided,  but it does  not give the department  permission to                                                               
take a child.                                                                                                                   
2:22:36 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DYSON asked why a  definition of "child advocacy center" is                                                               
MS.  KRALY  answered the  definition  was  added to  clarify  the                                                               
function of the center.                                                                                                         
2:24:31 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  GREEN suggested  an amendment  to  the definition  might                                                               
satisfy  the committee.  She added  changing  the language  would                                                               
change  the focus  of  SB  82 since  its  primary  purpose is  to                                                               
expedite the process of getting children to safety.                                                                             
MS. KENNAI agreed  with Senator Green. The intent of  the bill is                                                               
to enable the staff of OCS to do investigations.                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN asked what would  happen if "without the permission                                                               
of the parents, guardian, or custodian." were deleted.                                                                          
MS. KRALY answered  AS 47.17.064 already uses  that language with                                                               
respect to a  child believed to have been  physically abused. The                                                               
bill  expands   the  applicability   of  the  language   in  this                                                               
subsection  to include  children who  are believed  to have  been                                                               
sexually abused.                                                                                                                
2:28:18 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON  remarked the  scope of  the following  language on                                                               
page 2 is very broad:                                                                                                           
     The  state  and  the   department,  its  officers,  its                                                                    
     employees,  and its  agents are  not  liable for  civil                                                                    
     damages as a result of  actions taken or omissions that                                                                    
     occurred  in the  transportation authorized  under this                                                                    
     section,  except  for  conduct that  constitutes  gross                                                                    
He  said it  seems to  confer  immunity on  a driver  who hits  a                                                               
pedestrian while transporting a child.                                                                                          
MS.  KRALY explained  the immunity  provision was  discussed with                                                               
special litigation attorneys. She  is unfamiliar with the wording                                                               
and would get back to the committee with an explanation.                                                                        
SENATOR ELTON  asked if placing  a child on  a plane bound  for a                                                               
city  with a  regional center  would constitute  taking emergency                                                               
custody of that child.                                                                                                          
2:31:21 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. KRALY  replied there are  specifically delineated  times when                                                               
the department  is allowed  to take  emergency custody.  She said                                                               
the DOL could  determine that an emergency  exists, take custody,                                                               
and  then later  explain it  to a  judge. The  DOL would  seek to                                                               
obtain emergency  custody to  take a  child out  of a  village or                                                               
rural area.                                                                                                                     
2:32:53 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  GREEN asked  what "not  liable  for civil  damages as  a                                                               
result  of  actions  taken  or omissions  that  occurred  in  the                                                               
transportation authorized under  this section" on page  2, line 5                                                               
MS. KRALY  explained if the state  has custody of a  child and if                                                               
while transporting  the child  there is  an accident  involving a                                                               
state employee, the bill would  not subject the state employee to                                                               
SENATOR GREEN said that is why there is insurance.                                                                              
MS.  KRALY  said  she  is unfamiliar  with  why  that  particular                                                               
wording is in SB 82.                                                                                                            
2:36:24 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  DYSON   said  he  had   assumed,  until   Senator  Elton's                                                               
questions,  that  this  section  was just  dealing  with  actions                                                               
pertinent to the  child in question. In light  of Senator Elton's                                                               
question it seems that it  applies to anyone or anything affected                                                               
during  transport. He  asked his  aid to  have legislative  legal                                                               
look at this section.                                                                                                           
ROSEMARY   HAGEVIG,   Executive  Director,   Catholic   Community                                                               
Services (CCS),  testified on behalf  of the Safe  Child Advocacy                                                               
Center in  Juneau and the  Alaska Children's Alliance  (ACA). She                                                               
said  the ACA  chose  this year  to try  and  get child  advocacy                                                               
centers  codified in  law.  She  feels it  is  important for  her                                                               
organization to have  a statutory definition of  a child advocacy                                                               
2:39:53 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  DYSON referenced  an  amendment proposed  by  the CCS  and                                                               
asked Senator Green if she is  concerned about the wording in the                                                               
proposed amendment under findings, "no  child in Alaska should be                                                               
denied  access".  He  asked  Senator Green  if  she  thinks  this                                                               
implies  an  obligation of  the  state  to either  provide  these                                                               
everywhere or  provide transportation for  a child to  where they                                                               
might be.                                                                                                                       
SENATOR GREEN agreed that was a concern.                                                                                        
MS.  HAGEVIG  responded  child  advocacy  centers  are  currently                                                               
supported  in  Alaska  by  federal   funding  which  may  not  be                                                               
available  forever. She  hopes eventually  the state  might enter                                                               
the funding scheme for child protective services.                                                                               
CHAIR DYSON said the wording would  have to be changed to get the                                                               
bill by Senator Green and himself.                                                                                              
2:47:18 PM                                                                                                                    
SCOTT CALDER,  Fairbanks resident,  opposed SB 82  and SB  83. He                                                               
said the  use of  the term  non-offending parent  in the  bill is                                                               
flawed.  The term  "forensic  interview" is  not  defined in  the                                                               
legislation  and is  difficult  to find  elsewhere.  He does  not                                                               
understand  how  children  could  be  transported  and  tests  be                                                               
performed on  them with complete  disregard for some kind  of due                                                               
process with respect to their parents.                                                                                          
2:52:06 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  CALDER shared  Senator Elton's  concern  about the  immunity                                                               
provision discussed earlier. He is  concerned with the use of the                                                               
term "emergency" on  page 2, lines 2-4, and said  if state agents                                                               
are transporting children, then  they are, by definition, dealing                                                               
with an emergency  and the fact that they  aren't telling parents                                                               
what they are doing with their  children does not change that. He                                                               
said  people  associated  with child  advocacy  centers  are  not                                                               
interested in  due process provisions and  people's rights should                                                               
not  be  taken  away  from   them  on  the  basis  of  somebody's                                                               
reasonable idea of whether there may be some wrongdoing.                                                                        
2:54:51 PM                                                                                                                    
BETTY ROLLINS said  this is the most dangerous bill  that she has                                                               
read in a  long time and urged  the committee not to  pass SB 82.                                                               
She  said that  lines 9  thorough 11  on page  1 wrongfully  give                                                               
police  officers the  authority to  conduct forensic  interviews.                                                               
She remarked there  was a case in Ohio wherein  twenty girls were                                                               
given a medical exam against their will because they were                                                                       
suspected of being sexually abused and their parents could do                                                                   
nothing because the state had a law similar to SB 82.                                                                           
2:56:57 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DYSON said SB 82 would be held until the next committee                                                                   
There being no further business to come before the committee,                                                                   
Chair Dyson adjourned the meeting at 2:58:04 PM.                                                                              

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