Legislature(1997 - 1998)
04/24/1997 08:41 AM Senate FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
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MINUTES
SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE
April 24, 1997
8:41 A.M.
TAPES
SFC-97, # 127 Side 1 & 2
Technical error resulted in loss of a taped portion of the
meeting.
SFC-97, # 128, Side 1 (000-368)
CALL TO ORDER
Senator Bert Sharp, Cochair, Senate Finance Committee,
convened the meeting at approximately 8:41 A.M.
PRESENT
In addition to COCHAIR SHARP, COCHAIR PEARCE, SENATORS
PHILLIPS, PARNELL and ADAMS were present when the meeting
was convened. SENATORS TORGERSON and DONLEY arrived as the
meeting was in progress.
Also Attending:
REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN, REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE;
CATHERINE REARDON, Director, Division of Occupational
Licensing, Department of Commerce and Economic Development;
ANNETTE KREITZER, Aide to Senate Labor and Commerce
Committee; DEAN PADDOCK, Bristol Bay Driftnetters
Association; SUE JORGENSEN, 17th United States Coast Guard
District; MARK JOHNSON, Chief, Community Health and
Emergency Medical Services, Department of Health and Social
Services; BETTY MARTIN, Comptroller, Treasury Division,
Department of Revenue; BRETT HUBER, Legislative Staff to
Senator Halford; MICHAEL MORGAN, Manager, Facilities
Section, Department of Education (DOE); MICHAEL FORD,
Attorney, Legislative Legal and Research Services; JOHN CYR,
President, NEA-Alaska; DR. NANCY BUELL, Director, Teaching
and Learning Support, DOE; TUCKERMAN BABCOCK, Legislative
Aide to Senator Green; and aides to committee members.
Also Attending via Teleconference:
JOE MACINKO, Commercial Fisherman, Kodiak; JERRY DZUGAN,
Alaska Marine Safety Education Association (AMSEA), Sitka;
JIM HERBERT, Alaska Vocational Technical School, Seward.
SUMMARY INFORMATION
HB 133 ARCHITECTS, ENGINEERS & SURVEYORS
Testimony was heard from CATHERINE REARDON and ANNETTE
KREITZER. SENATOR PARNELL MOVED the bill from
committee with individual recommendations. Without
objection, CSHB 133(L&C) was REPORTED OUT with a new
fiscal note from the Department of Commerce and
Economic Development.
SB 88 BOARD OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTANCY
Testimony was heard from ANNETTE KREITZER. COCHAIR
PEARCE MOVED the bill from committee with individual
recommendations. Without objection, CSSB 88(L&C) was
REPORTED OUT with a new zero fiscal note from the
Department of Commerce and Economic Development.
HB 13 MARINE SAFETY TRAINING & EDUCATION
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN testified on behalf of the
bill. SENATOR ADAMS MOVED the bill with individual
recommendations. COCHAIR SHARP objected for the purpose
of examining the fiscal notes. SENATOR ADAMS withdrew
his motion. Teleconference testimony in support of the
bill was heard from JOE MACINKO, JERRY DZUGAN and JIM
HERBERT. Also testifying in support were DEAN PADDOCK,
SUE JORGENSEN and MARK JOHNSON. BETTY MARTIN answered
questions. SENATOR PHILLIPS MOVED the bill from
committee contingent on receipt of a new fiscal note.
Without objection, CSHB 13(FIN)am was REPORTED OUT with
a previous zero fiscal note from the Department of
Labor and a forthcoming fiscal note from the Department
of Community and Regional Affairs (150.0).
SB 11 SCHOOL DEBT REIMBURSEMENT
BRETT HUBER testified regarding the changes
incorporated in the work draft CS, version F. Also
testifying were MICHAEL MORGAN and MIKE FORD. SENATOR
PHILLIPS MOVED Amendment #4. SENATOR ADAMS objected.
SENATOR PHILLIPS withdrew his motion and MOVED to adopt
the work draft CS. SENATOR DONLEY objected for the
purpose of discussion, then withdrew his objection.
Without further objection, CSSB 11(FIN) was ADOPTED.
SENATOR PHILLIPS MOVED Amendment #4. Without
objection, Amendment #4 was ADOPTED. SENATOR DONLEY
MOVED Amendment #5. COCHAIR SHARP objected, then
withdrew his objection. SENATOR PHILLIPS objected.
Amendment #5 FAILED by a 2 to 4 vote. SENATOR ADAMS
MOVED Amendment #6. SENATOR PHILLIPS objected.
Amendment #6 FAILED by a 2 to 4 vote. Amendment #3 was
not offered. CSSB 11(FIN) was HELD for further
consideration.
HB 145 TEACHING COMPETENCY EXAM FOR CERTIFICATION
COCHAIR PEARCE MOVED to adopt the SCS work draft,
version H. SENATOR ADAMS objected. There was
discussion regarding the fiscal note. SENATOR ADAMS
withdrew his objection and SCS CSHB 145(FIN) was
ADOPTED. Testimony was heard from JOHN CYR,
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE and DR. NANCY BUELL. SENATOR
DONLEY MOVED Amendment #1. Without objection,
Amendment #1 was ADOPTED. COCHAIR PEARCE MOVED the
bill from committee with individual recommendations.
SENATOR ADAMS objected. By a vote of 5 to 2, SCSCSHB
145(FIN) was REPORTED OUT with a forthcoming fiscal
note from the Department of Education (100.0).
SB 141 CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMITS
TUCKERMAN BABCOCK answered questions of the committee.
SENATOR PARNELL MOVED to rescind previous action in
Reporting Out CSSB 141(FIN). Without objection, the
MOTION CARRIED and the bill was before the committee.
SENATOR PARNELL MOVED Amendment #5. SENATOR ADAMS
objected, then withdrew his objection. There being no
further objection, Amendment #5 was ADOPTED. SENATOR
DONLEY MOVED the bill from committee with individual
recommendations. SENATOR ADAMS objected. By a 6 to 1
vote, CSSB 141(FIN) was REPORTED OUT with a previous
fiscal note (5.0) and two previous zero fiscal notes
from the Department of Public Safety.
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 133(L&C)
"An Act relating to regulation of architects, engineers, and
land surveyors; extending the termination date of the State
Board of Registration for Architects, Engineers, and Land
Surveyors; and providing for an effective date."
COCHAIR SHARP explained that the bill extended the sunset
date and changed the mix of members.
SENATOR ADAMS noted a recommendation was made by the
Legislative Budget and Audit Committee (LBA) to include
financial statements of receipts and expenditures on all
licensing boards. He inquired why they had not been
incorporated into this bill.
CATHERINE REARDON, Director, Division of Occupational
Licensing, Department of Commerce and Economic Development,
explained that the division began including all financial
reports in their annual report this past fall, although
there was no statutory obligation.
In response to a question from COCHAIR PEARCE, MS. REARDON
stated that it was not unusual to operate with an even
number of members because of vacancies or conflicting out
during a vote. COCHAIR PEARCE questioned the wisdom of even
numbers on boards. SENATOR PARNELL inquired where the
recommendation for ten members came from. MS. REARDON
responded that land surveyors had requested an additional
member for some time, it was supported by the Alaska
Professional Design Council (APDC), and it was a decision
made through the committee process.
ANNETTE KREITZER, Aide to Senate Labor and Commerce
Committee, informed the committee that the questions raised
so far also came up in the previous committee. The bill was
a result of cooperation between the department, the board
and the APDC. The extra position would be paid for by the
APDC fees, so there was no fiscal impact. The quorum issue
had been discussed and it was decided they could still make
their quorum. The justification for the additional member
was the increasing number of applications for land
surveyors.
COCHAIR PEARCE noted another LBA Committee recommendation
was that a mining engineer board member would not be
justified because they made up less than 1 percent of the
membership.
SENATOR PARNELL MOVED the bill from committee with
individual recommendations. Without objection, CSHB
133(L&C) was REPORTED OUT with a new fiscal note from the
Department of Commerce and Economic Development (2.5).
SENATE BILL NO. 88
"An Act relating to the Board of Public Accountancy;
extending the termination date of the Board of Public
Accountancy; and providing for an effective date."
At the cochair's direction, ANNETTE KREITZER gave a brief
overview of the bill. It followed recommendations of the
audit regarding clarification of the licensing process
(Sections 3 and 4), repeal of the temporary certification
(Section 7), deletion of conflicting provisions regarding
member terms and eligibility for reappointment.
COCHAIR PEARCE MOVED the bill from committee with individual
recommendations. Without objection, CSSB 88(L&C) was
REPORTED OUT with a new zero fiscal note from the Department
of Commerce and Economic Development.
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 13(FIN) am
"An Act relating to marine safety training and education
programs."
REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN stated the purpose of the bill
was to continue the marine safety program in the state. He
noted the state did not have a water safety program,
although it was mandated by federal law, which resulted in a
program called AMSEA (Alaska Marine Safety Education
Association). Federal funding was drying up and the bill
was an attempt to continue the program with a funding source
through the Fishermen's Fund interest earnings.
SENATOR ADAMS inquired how much money would be used.
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN replied that it would be between
$150 thousand to $235 thousand, depending on the market.
SENATOR ADAMS MOVED CSHB 13(FIN)am with individual
recommendations. COCHAIR SHARP objected for the purpose of
examining the fiscal notes. He inquired about the current
cost of the program, noting there was no mention of the
amount in the fiscal note.
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN responded that all interest
earnings go into the general fund currently. He pointed out
that the House Finance Committee zeroed the fiscal note and
put the line item into the budget under the Department of
Community and Regional Affairs. There was additional
discussion and explanation about the fiscal note. SENATOR
PHILLIPS expressed his preference to see $150 thousand in a
fiscal note rather than the budget. COCHAIR SHARP directed
a new fiscal note from the department be provided.
SFC-97, # 127, Side 1 (275) - Technical error resulted in
loss of the taped portion of the meeting at this point. The
following portion of the meeting was taken from log notes.
SENATOR ADAMS withdrew his motion to move CSHB 13(FIN)am.
COCHAIR SHARP announced he would next take testimony from
teleconference participants.
JOE MACINKO, a commercial fisherman from Kodiak, testified
via teleconference. He supported the bill and commented
that safety training goes a long way.
JERRY DZUGAN, of AMSEA, Sitka, testified via teleconference
in support. He discussed the AMSEA program.
JIM HERBERT, of Alaska Vocational Technical School,
testified via teleconference from Seward. He spoke in
support of the bill.
The following testimony was heard from participants present
in the committee room.
DEAN PADDOCK, Bristol Bay Driftnetters Association, spoke in
support. He referred to an article in the May 1997 issue of
National Fisherman regarding the grassroots movement for
marine safety awareness that has proven effective in saving
lives. He spoke in support of AMSEA, stated the need for
marine safety programs and urged passage of the bill.
SUE JORGENSEN, 17th United States Coast Guard District,
testified in support of the bill. Marine safety training
was absolutely necessary not only for those in coastal areas
statewide, but also for inland boaters on lakes and rivers.
MARK JOHNSON, Chief, Community Health and Emergency Medical
Services, Department of Health and Social Services,
testified in support, noting that research has proven that
lives have been saved through knowledge of marine safety.
SENATOR PHILLIPS suggested moving the bill out of committee
with a forthcoming fiscal note.
In response to a question from COCHAIR SHARP, BETTY MARTIN,
Comptroller, Treasury Division, Department of Revenue,
responded that the dedicated fund was constitutional, the
interest currently goes into the general fund, and she saw
no problem with the bill as written.
SENATOR PHILLIPS MOVED the bill from committee contingent on
receipt of a new fiscal note. Without objection, CSHB
13(FIN)am was REPORTED OUT with a previous zero fiscal note
from the Department of Labor and a forthcoming fiscal note
from the Department of Community and Regional Affairs
(150.0).
SENATE BILL NO. 11
"An Act relating to state aid for school construction debt;
and providing for an effective date."
BRETT HUBER, Legislative Staff to Senator Halford, addressed
the committee. He called attention to a CS work draft,
version F, that was before the committee and noted it
incorporated two previously adopted amendments. He
discussed the amendments and pointed out an error in the CS
draft wording on page 4, line 8. The word "payments" should
be "projects." He brought up the retroactive clause in
Section 6.
SENATOR ADAMS inquired what the Anchorage school debt was on
a yearly basis. MR. HUBER responded that the Anchorage bond
issues went forward without Department of Education
approval, but he thought the department may have an estimate
of the amount.
COCHAIR SHARP invited the bill drafter, Mike Ford, and
Department of Education representative, Mike Morgan, to the
committee table.
SENATOR ADAMS had questions about the Anchorage and Mat-Su
bond issues and the retroactivity clause that were addressed
by MR. HUBER. MICHAEL MORGAN, Manager, Facilities Section,
Department of Education (DOE), responded to SENATOR ADAMS'
questions also.
SFC-97, # 127 Side 1 (500)
COCHAIR SHARP inquired if the retroactive clause in
subsection (8) (page 4) opened a window for additional 70/30
funding. MICHAEL FORD, Attorney, Legislative Legal and
Research Services, indicated that the issuance of bonds
would have to have the DOE commissioner's approval by July 1
and be issued between July 1, 1995 and July 1, 1997. It was
determined that it would be unlikely that a bond package
could be put together, voted on, and approved by DOE before
July 1, but it could open the door for Anchorage.
End SFC-97 # 127, Side 1 (590)
Begin SFC-97 # 127, Side 2 (000)
SENATOR ADAMS inquired what the retroactive clause would
cost the state. Mr. Huber responded that DOE had begun the
analysis, but was still waiting for information from
Anchorage. He estimated a potential impact would be $5.8
million for Anchorage and Mat-Su projects.
There was discussion about a fiscal note dated 3/24/97 for
$3.9 million which represented only Mat-Su reimbursement.
MIKE FORD addressed technical changes to the bill that would
make it consistent with other provisions, as referenced in
his memorandum dated 4/10/97.
SENATOR PHILLIPS MOVED the suggested changes as Amendment
motion, then MOVED to adopt the CS work draft, version F, as
CSSB 11(FIN). Without objection, it was ADOPTED.
SENATOR PHILLIPS MOVED Amendment # 4. SENATOR DONLEY
objected for the purpose of discussion, then withdrew his
motion. Without further objection, Amendment #4 was
adopted.
SENATOR DONLEY MOVED Amendment #5, page 4, line 9, to delete
"before the sale or issuance of debt for the project".
COCHAIR SHARP objected, spoke to his objection, then
withdrew it. SENATOR PHILLIPS objected. There was
discussion about expanded eligibility of projects resulting
from the amendment.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt Amendment
IN FAVOR: Adams, Donley
OPPOSED: Parnell, Phillips, Sharp, Pearce
Amendment #5 FAILED by a 2 to 4 vote.
SENATOR ADAMS MOVED Amendment #6, page 4, lines 7-14, to
delete all material. SENATOR PHILLIPS objected.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt Amendment
IN FAVOR: Adams, Sharp
OPPOSED: Parnell, Phillips, Donley, Pearce
Amendment #6 FAILED by a 2 to 4 vote.
SENATOR PARNELL commented that the fiscal note was open-
ended in that there was no cap on the amount that could be
bonded for, so it was basically a blank check. He inquired
how much more could be expected above the $3.9 million. MR.
HUBER was unable to provide a number but spoke of the
sponsor's intent. Voters would scrutinize which projects
they would approve because they would be paying half the
bill. SENATOR PARNELL questioned how reimbursements would
fit in with the majority spending plan and if that had been
considered by the sponsor. MR. HUBER acknowledged that
there could be impact, but school construction would have to
come from some place. Currently, the only mechanism is
through capital appropriations at 100 percent project cost.
SENATOR ADAMS believed the fiscal note should reflect a
minimum of $5.8 million, noting that it could go up to
between $12-15 million in debt service. He agreed that it
would blow the five-year spending plan out of proportion,
but he supported it as a good cause.
COCHAIR SHARP commented that the bill represented a portion
of the majority's comprehensive education package, but
problems exist in doing it a piece at a time, particularly
with subsection (8). He was supportive of the 50/50 share
of the debt load. He requested a revised fiscal note that
reflected the total impact of additional debt service that
may be incurred due to bonds that have passed and may
qualify within the window provided under subsection (8).
Amendment #3 was not offered. SENATOR ADAMS commented that
the bill takes care of only one segment of the state, and
the whole state should be considered. He indicated he would
keep the amendment pending and try to find a solution to
take care of the "have nots."
COCHAIR SHARP requested a report of the last bond package
that passed showing whether Mat-Su got any of that money.
CSSB 11(FIN) was HELD for further consideration.
COCHAIR SHARP announced a ten minute recess at 10:00 A.M.
The meeting reconvened at 10:12 A. M.
End SFC-97, # 127, Side 2 (127)
Flip tape back to Side 1, (begins at 275)
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 145(HES)
"An Act relating to certification of teachers."
COCHAIR PEARCE noted the SCS work draft, version H, that was
before the committee. She read the language that was
incorporated into the draft on page 2, line 3 "and for other
charges assessed against teachers as part of certification";
line 5: "relating to the certification of teachers"; line 6:
"when added to the other fees collected from teachers"; and
line 7: "to the fees for certification of teachers".
COCHAIR PEARCE MOVED for adoption of the work draft as SCS
CSHB 145(FIN). SENATOR ADAMS objected. He inquired if
there was a new fiscal note applicable to the SCS and what
services teachers would receive for the increased cost.
There was no new fiscal note. COCHAIR PEARCE commented that
the purpose was to have teachers pay the full cost of
certification and licensing through their fees, as do other
occupational and professional licensees. SENATOR ADAMS
inquired about the difference in cost now and as a result of
the bill. COCHAIR PEARCE estimated it would be an increase
of approximately $42 for a five-year renewal, and it was
still one of the lowest professional license fees in the
state.
SENATOR ADAMS withdrew his objection. There being no
further objection, SCS CSHB 145(FIN) was ADOPTED.
JOHN CYR, President, NEA-Alaska, addressed the committee.
He testified that he had supported the bill throughout the
legislative process, but now had to speak in opposition.
Although he favored a formal screening process for
applicants for certification, the SCS raised fees by fifty
percent. He noted that a new applicant had to pay a license
fee of approximately $450 to $500 just to look for work.
MR. CYR suggested allowing the NEA, a professional
association, to handle certification and policing with
legislative oversight. In response to a question from
SENATOR ADAMS, he stated no additional services would be
added with an increase in fees and that minimal oversight
could allow fees to escalate.
COCHAIR PEARCE questioned why teachers should be in a class
unto themselves with regard to paying the costs of
certification. MR. CYR responded that certification costs
were being covered. He added that other professions were
free to charge what the market would bear, but that teachers
were in a different circumstance because their income was
regulated through a bargaining procedure and unlike other
professionals such as doctors and lawyers, teachers were a
part of the state in that they worked for the state's
political subdivisions. He suggested that the Professional
Teaching Practices Commission have a bigger role in looking
at certification requirements if teachers would be paying
more. MR. CYR stated he would like to see NEA be
responsible for certification.
REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE addressed the committee. He noted
the purpose of the bill was to address the need for
screening tests, commenting that the emphasis had shifted to
fees. He encouraged the committee to refocus on the main
purpose. He suggested a two-tiered fee system be considered
for new certification and recertification. COCHAIR PEARCE
noted the department already did that and nothing in the
bill would prevent the continuation.
End of HB 145 on SFC-97, # 127, Side 1, (500). (At this
point, the tape skips to SB 11.)
Begin SFC-97, #128, Side 1 (000)
SENATOR PHILLIPS inquired if NEA supported general
proficiency testing as part of high school graduation
requirements. MR. CYR commented that it was a complex
issue. He supported competency for graduates but believed a
one-time test was not the best way to go. He elaborated on
the issue.
SENATOR DONLEY noted the new language in Section 2 and asked
if a delayed effective date for that section could phase the
process in.
DR. NANCY BUELL, Director, Teaching and Learning Support,
Department of Education, responded that a delayed
implementation date would allow a more orderly process and
would be easier for the population it addresses. There was
additional discussion about an effective date.
SENATOR DONLEY MOVED Amendment #1, adding an effective date
of July 1, 1998 for Section 2 of the bill. Without
objection, Amendment #1 was ADOPTED.
COCHAIR PEARCE MOVED the bill from committee with individual
recommendations. SENATOR ADAMS objected.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: PHILLIPS, TORGERSON, PARNELL, PEARCE, SHARP
OPPOSED: DONLEY, ADAMS
And so, by a vote of 5 to 2, SCSCSHB 145(FIN) was REPORTED
OUT with a forthcoming fiscal note from the Department of
Education (100.0).
SENATE BILL NO. 141
"An Act relating to permits to carry concealed handguns; and
relating to the possession of firearms."
COCHAIR SHARP noted that CSSB 141(FIN), which had been
reported out, was before the committee with incorporated
amendments. There was an additional amendment before the
committee that had been suggested by the drafter.
TUCKERMAN BABCOCK, Legislative Aide to Senator Green, noted
that the language in the amendment met the legal counsel's
concern about due process, but it left the effect of the
amendment intact.
SENATOR PARNELL MOVED to rescind previous action in
Reporting Out CSSB 141(FIN). Without objection, the MOTION
CARRIED.
SENATOR PARNELL MOVED Amendment #5. SENATOR ADAMS objected.
He asked for two examples of a class A misdemeanor. MR.
BABCOCK replied that stalking and misconduct involving
weapons were examples. SENATOR ADAMS withdrew his
objection. There being no further objection, Amendment #5
was ADOPTED.
SENATOR ADAMS stated his objection to the bill. It went too
far by allowing weapons to be carried in state buildings,
courthouses, domestic violence centers, and other places
where guns shouldn't be. There was additional discussion
about federal restrictions regarding where concealed weapons
were allowed.
COCHAIR SHARP brought up a fiscal note from the Office of
the Governor (OMB) for purchase of lock boxes in various
locations. He wanted to zero-out the item. SENATOR ADAMS
opposed the suggestion. There was discussion about security
in airports and courthouses.
SENATOR DONLEY MOVED the bill from committee with individual
recommendations. SENATOR ADAMS objected. By a 6 to 1 vote,
CSSB 141(FIN) was REPORTED OUT with a previous fiscal note
(5.0) and two previous zero fiscal notes from the Department
of Public Safety.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at approximately 11:06 A.M.
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