Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/17/1994 09:45 AM Senate FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
MINUTES
SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE
March 17, 1994
9:45 a.m.
TAPES
SFC-94, #43, Side 2 (200-000)
SFC-94, #44, Side 1 (000-120)
CALL TO ORDER
Senator Drue Pearce, Co-chair, convened the meeting at
approximately 9:45 a.m.
PRESENT
In addition to Co-chairs Pearce and Frank, Senators Rieger,
and Kerttula were present. Senator Jacko joined the meeting
after it was in progress. Senators Sharp and Kelly did not
attend.
ALSO ATTENDING: David Gray, aide to Representative Jerry
Mackie, sponsor of HB 3 and HB 4; Pat O'Brien, Social
Services Program Director, Division of Family & Youth
Services, Department of Health & Social Services; Fran
Jamison, Older Alaskans Commission, Division of Senior
Services, Department of Health & Social Services; and Mike
Greany, Director, Legislative Finance Division; aides to
committee members and other members of the legislature.
SUMMARY INFORMATION
SCSHB 3(JUD): An Act relating to public home care
providers; and providing for an effective
date.
David Gray, aide to Representative Jerry
Mackie, sponsor of HB 3, testified in support
of the bill. Pat O'Brien, Social Services
Program Director, Division of Family & Youth
Services, Department of Health & Social
Services, spoke to the Department's concerns.
Discussion was had between Senators Kerttula
and Rieger regarding home care providers and
the vulnerability of some elderly people.
Fran Jamison, Older Alaskans Commission,
Division of Senior Services, Department of
Health & Social Services, spoke in support of
HB 3. HB 3 was REPORTED OUT of committee
with a "do pass," with a fiscal note for the
Department of Health & Social Services #0259
for $15.0, and zero fiscal notes for the
Department of Health & Social Services #1629,
Department of Safety #1190, and Department of
Administration #1981.
CSHB 4(JUD): An Act relating to failure to report harm or
assaults of the elderly or disabled.
David Gray, aide to Representative Jerry
Mackie, sponsor of HB 4, testified in support
of the bill. Pat O'Brien, Social Services
Program Director, Division of Family & Youth
Services, Department of Health & Social
Services, spoke to the Department's concerns.
Discussion was had between Senators Kerttula
and Rieger regarding home care providers,
their ethical responsibility and the
vulnerability of some elderly people. HB 4
was REPORTED OUT of committee with a "do
pass," and zero fiscal notes for the
Departments of Administration, Health &
Social Services, and Community & Regional
Affairs.
CSSB 190(JUD): An Act relating to income withholding and
other methods of enforcement for orders of
support; and providing for an effective date.
Scheduled but not heard.
SENATE CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 3(JUD):
An Act relating to public home care providers; and
providing for an effective date.
Co-chair Pearce invited David Gray, aide to Representative
Mackie, sponsor of HB 3 and HB 4, to join the members at the
table and speak to the bill.
DAVID GRAY said HB 3 had been around for awhile and had not
changed too much. The bill originated after a senior passed
away who had a health care provider and there was a
complaint from the family that the estate had been misused.
In response, Representative Mackie looked at the home health
care provider situation and how dependent the senior could
become on this person. It could involve handling a senior's
money and other matters. The bill's main effect would
prohibit home care providers to be the sole power of
attorney, and anyone who was using public moneys was
required to have a criminal background check.
Representative Mackie also felt this bill was in tune with
the administration's efforts to turn to more home health
care service for seniors.
Senator Kerttula stated this bill was related to his own
personal concerns. He supported a system where more than
one person would be involved, and also supported a
background check.
In answer to Senator Rieger, Mr. Gray said the statutes
defined when the state would pay for a home care provider.
Mr. Gray said definitions of different kinds of care were
scattered throughout the statutes. He said the effort was
to have a broader and more consistent definition throughout
all parts of the statutes that dealt with the programs and
protection of the elderly.
PAT O'BRIEN, Social Services Program Director, Division of
Family & Youth Services, Department of Health & Social
Services, said she had been following HB 3 and HB 4 for four
years. She said in order for the division to put
regulations in place by March 15, 1995, a fiscal note was
needed. She went on to say that if the vulnerable adults
bill passed, there would be a collaboration with the
Division of Senior Services to develop those regulations.
In response to Mr. Gray's prior statement, she said a public
home care provider was not currently defined in statute.
In answer to Senator Kerttula, Ms. O'Brien said that there
was more detail than listed on the fiscal note. In order to
implement this bill, regulations must be implemented. She
said regulations would address due process. In addition,
procedures must be revised in the workers' manuals and some
changes in reporting must be made. She said the residential
child care regulations were more than ten years old. There
was a backlog of very important sets of regulations and
prioritizing this bill in front of other regulations was not
something the department wanted to do. She said the
department would contract out the writing of the
regulations. In her experience, she had found that
regulations often take a year, and sometimes longer.
Senator Kerttula understood that there was not enough money
to handle the many problems the Department of Health &
Social Services faced, but it was discouraging to him that
it would take a year to implement regulations.
Senator Rieger asked if the person who was the recipient of
home care services under the circumstances of HB 3, ever was
a ward of the state. Ms. O'Brien said that children would
be the only case, or children in foster homes where respite
care would be provided. Adults were never wards of the
state.
Again, in answer to Senator Rieger, Ms. O'Brien said this
was easiest to talk about in regard to a very elderly
person. The home care provider who went into the elderly
person's home might be the only individual that the person
sees and the two might develop a close bond. There had been
cases of abuse where the elderly person felt dependent on
the individual for emotional support. In that case, the
elderly person would not be strong enough to take steps to
protect him/herself. She said someone could report this
matter to the department and in some cases, it would be
necessary for the department to ask the individual to be
removed.
In answer to another question by Senator Rieger, Ms. O'Brien
said in licensing outside contractors, the Department of Law
had advised the statement regarding removal in order to
provide for due process. Senator Rieger voiced his concern
that the state was creating another way to leave itself open
to lawsuits where none existed before.
FRANK JAMISON, Older Alaskans Commission, Division of Senior
Services, Department of Health & Social Services, said the
Commission was in support of HB 3. She added that people
hired to become home care providers would be required to
have a criminal record check. The incident that instigated
this bill was a person that had a record in California, and
because no record check was done here, no one knew. She
stated it was an important bill for vulnerable adults.
In answer to Co-chair Pearce, Mr. Gray said that he did not
know how the testimony had gone in Senate Judiciary. He did
know that due process was key to this situation.
Senator Kerttula made a statement that elderly adults could
be very vulnerable and family may not be close by. He cited
another situation where a parent had Alzheimer's and its
problems.
Senator Kerttula MOVED for passage of HB 3 from committee
with individual recommendations. No objection being heard,
it was REPORTED OUT of committee with a "do pass," zero
fiscal notes for the Department of Health & Social Services-
Administration, and a fiscal note for the Department of
Health & Social Services-#2059 for $15.0. Co-chairs Pearce
and Frank, Senators Rieger, Kerttula, and Jacko signed "do
pass."
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 4(JUD):
An Act relating to failure to report harm or assaults
of the elderly or disabled.
Co-chair Pearce asked David Gray, aide to Representative
Mackie, prime sponsor of HB 4, to return to the table to
speak to the bill.
David Gray said that HB 4 was a companion bill to HB 3. It
would increase the penalties that exist for people who
provided home care services to elderly adults and the
disabled, and make it consistent with other law. It
increased the penalty from a violation to a class "B"
misdemeanor. An earlier version added harm to senior
citizens as an aggravating factor. This was taken out. It
had another provision that said if a provider was convicted
of doing harm, the court should notify the appropriate
licensing agency.
Senator Kerttula said that a piece of legislation had
already passed regarding this issue. He thought the social
services people were required to investigate reports. Mr.
Gray said he did not know about reporting requirements.
Senator Rieger asked how this would tie in with a mental
health professional or a family therapist in regard to
professional and ethical confidentiality towards the family.
Co-chair Frank asked Senator Rieger if he meant a case where
a family member may confess to some abuse to a parent.
Senator Rieger agreed and said the person that needed
counseling would not receive the therapy he/she needed.
Mr. Gray pointed out that presently it was a class "B"
penalty to harm a disabled person where harm to a senior
citizen was only a violation. Senator Rieger did not see
what that had to do with it.
Senator Kerttula suggested that health care professionals be
excluded from this bill.
Discussion continued between Co-chair Frank and Mr. Gray
regarding health care providers and reporting of abuse.
Ms. O'Brien said the department had wrestled with many of
these same questions. In fact, she heard testimony by
mental health care providers on these issues. She said they
support being included in the mandatory reporting laws.
Health care providers warn their clients that they must
report violations if it would come up in counseling
sessions, and it may keep the client from speaking freely.
Senator Rieger again said that people that needed the help
may not go for help. He was not comfortable with this part
of the bill.
End SFC-94 #43, Side 2
Begin SFC-94 #45, Side 1
Ms. O'Brien said there was the understanding with reports to
law enforcement officers, that when it was reported to
social services, unless the law had been broken, social
services could then go into the home and talk with
individuals to stop the behavior. She said when it got to a
criminal level, that was another area.
Senator Kerttula said this was a problem with social
services. Sometimes it would have to reach a criminal stage
before someone was helped.
In answer to Senator Rieger, Mr. O'Brien said that the
definition of harm would be revised under the vulnerable
adults law if that law passed.
Senator Kerttula MOVED for passage of HB 4 from committee
with individual recommendations. No objection being heard,
it was REPORTED OUT of committee with a "do pass," and zero
fiscal notes for the Department of Administration-#1631 and
Kerttula signed "do pass." Senator Rieger signed "no
recommendation."
SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD:
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 190(JUD):
An Act relating to income withholding and other methods
of enforcement for orders of support; and providing for
an effective date.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at approximately 10:15 a.m.
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