Legislature(1993 - 1994)
02/23/1994 09:15 AM Senate FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
MINUTES
SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE
February 23, 1994
9:15 a.m.
TAPES
SFC-94, #29, Side 1 (000-end)
SFC-94, #29, Side 2 (end-350)
CALL TO ORDER
Senator Drue Pearce, Co-chair, convened the meeting at
approximately 9:15 a.m.
PRESENT
In addition to Co-chairs Pearce and Frank, Senators
Kerttula, Jacko and Sharp were present. Senators Kelly and
Rieger joined the meeting after it was in progress.
ALSO ATTENDING: Senator Randy Phillips, sponsor of SB 26;
Senator Halford; Representative Mulder; Margaret Branson,
resident of Seward; Jeff Morrison, Legislative Liaison,
Department of Military & Veteran Affairs; Rosalee Walker,
resident of Juneau; Marshall Lind, speaking as a private
citizen; David Harding, aide to Representative Maclean,
sponsor of HB 73; Raymond Goad, aide to Representative
Brice, sponsor of HJR 36; Elmer Lindstrom, Special
Assistant, Department of Health & Social Services; Ella
Fitzgerald, Public Assistant Program Manager I, Division of
Medical Assistance, Department of Health & Social Services;
and Mike Greany, Director, Legislative Finance Division;
aides to committee members and other members of the
legislature.
SUMMARY INFORMATION
SB 26: An Act relating to the location of the convening
of the legislature in regular session; and
providing for an effective date.
Senator Randy Phillips, sponsor of SB 26,
testified in support of the bill. Margaret
Branson, Rosalee Walker, and Marshall Lind,
speaking as private citizens, testified in
opposition to SB 26. Discussion was had by
Senators Kerttula, Kelly and Sharp regarding
fiscal notes and the initiative coming before
voters about moving the capital to Wasilla. SB 26
was HELD in committee.
SB 329: An Act establishing a grant program relating to
veterans' services.
Senator Jacko, sponsor of SB 329 testified in
support of the bill. Jeff Morrison, Legislative
Liaison, Department of Military & Veteran Affairs,
spoke to his concerns regarding page 2, lines 5-7
that at least 25 percent of the money received
under the grant be used for expenses in
communities with a population of less than 400.
Senator Kelly brought some questions to the
committee as to what percent of veterans were in
rural areas and what qualified a person as a
"veteran." SB 329 was REPORTED OUT of committee
with individual recommendations and a zero fiscal
note from the Department of Military & Veteran
Affairs.
CSHB 59: An Act making a special appropriation to the
Department
(MLV) of Natural Resources for refunds to certain
veterans who purchased state land and for
reimbursement to the University of Alaska for the
veterans' land discount applied to land
transferred to the University of Alaska; and
providing for an effective date.
Representative Mulder, co-sponsor of HB 59, spoke
in support of CSHB 59(MLV). Senator Rieger MOVED
an amendment changing the date on line 13 to June
30, 1995, and deleting line 14 (Sec. 3). The
amendment was ADOPTED with no objections. SCSCSHB
59(FIN) was REPORTED out of committee with a "do
pass" and a zero fiscal note for the Department of
Natural Resources.
HB 73: An Act relating to state and local taxation and
other state regulation as affected by the Alaska
Native Claims Settlement Act, as amended, and
related federal statutes; and providing for an
effective date.
David Harding, aide to Representative Maclean,
sponsor of HB 73, testified in support of the
bill. Discussion followed between Co-chairs
Frank, Pearce, Senators Jacko, and Rieger
regarding concerns over federal statutes. HB 73
was HELD in committee.
CSHJR 36 Urging the federal Department of Health and Human
(HES) Services to repeal the "100-hour rule" relating
to employment of certain persons receiving AFDC
and to replace it with a regulation that will
serve as an incentive for AFDC recipients to
accept employment of more than 100 hours a month.
Raymond Goad, aide to Representative Brice,
sponsor of HJR 36, spoke in support of the
resolution. Elmer Lindstrom, Special Assistant,
Department of Health & Social Services attempted
to answer Co-chair Frank's question regarding the
"100 hour rule." Senator Sharp asked a question
regarding Medicaid eligibility. CSHJR 36(HES) was
REPORTED OUT of committee with a "do pass" and a
zero fiscal note for the Department of Health &
Social Services.
SENATE BILL NO. 26:
An Act relating to the location of the convening of the
legislature in regular session; and providing for an
effective date.
CO-CHAIR PEARCE announced that SB 26 was before the
committee. She invited Senator Phillips, sponsor of the
bill, to join the members at the table.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS said SB 26 would move only the
legislature from Juneau to Anchorage. The primary
motivation was to give people of Alaska access to the
legislature. He felt the people had the right to have
access to policy makers. He said in a survey done in his
district, four out of five people favored the move. He then
spoke to the fiscal notes for each department. He had asked
each department to show how much money had been spent on
employee travel during the legislative session. He asked
the committee to look at the fiscal notes with this in mind.
He said over half of the legislators were within a 50 mile
radius of Anchorage for some cost savings. He felt the
capitol building could be a museum piece and the tourism
industry would provide some income for maintenance.
Senator Phillips said he had talked to Alaska Pacific
University and there were buildings available that could be
used on campus to house the legislature. He also thought
the business people in Anchorage could help with any needs
if the legislature would move.
Senator Kerttula disagreed with moving the legislature and
not the capital. He felt the interaction was too great for
the process to be separated. He asked how that would be
addressed. Senator Phillips agreed with Senator Kerttula's
comments but he believed the teleconference tool could be
used.
Senator Kerttula noted there was an initiative to move the
capital to one area and a bill to move the legislature to
another. He found it disturbing. Senator Phillips thought
this bill would be a more responsible answer to voter access
to the legislature than moving the whole capital to Wasilla.
However, he said he was not opposed to moving the capital to
Wasilla.
Senator Kelly said that he saw the 1993 survey but wanted to
know the results of the 1994 survey. Senator Phillips said
that it was 52 percent for and 48 percent against the
legislative move but a 65 percent for moving the whole
capital. Senator Kelly noticed that his constituents had
turned around from 1993 to 1994. Senator Phillips
maintained that priority of access was very important.
Co-chair Pearce announced that Margaret Branson would
testify via teleconference from Seward.
MARGARET BRANSON, citizen and resident of Seward, said SB 26
was a back door approach to moving the capital. She
disagreed that the legislative branch could function in a
vacuum from the executive branch, and it showed a
misunderstanding of our form of government. One could not
function without the other, nor at a distance of 1,000
miles. She did not know of one government in the world that
functioned in such a way. She knew it was not a matter of
office space. She did not think Anchorage was more
accessible to people than Juneau. In this year of declining
revenues and budget crisis, it seemed self-indulgent to
exercise such a move. She was opposed to SB 26.
In answer to Senator Kelly, Ms. Branson said she was the
chairperson for the last capital site planning commission.
She said she had not looked at the financial figures for
years but assured the committee that it was not a simple
matter to move the legislature. She also noted that people
elect officials to represent them so they do not have to go
to council meetings, borough meetings, etc. She felt this
was also true of the legislature.
MARSHALL LIND, speaking as a private citizen, testified
concerning a new communication system. He said he had been
involved in education for over 30 years and just lately had
seen video conferencing as an alternative way to communicate
that could benefit many people in the state. The quality
would not be the same as broadcast but would worked well.
He said from personal experience it had saved time and
money. The University was using this system in Fairbanks,
Anchorage and Juneau. A unit would come on-line in Bethel
and the North Slope Borough had this for some time in their
school system. He listed many ways this system could be
used. He saw it as an opportunity to solve the problem of
citizen access and at the same time it could benefit schools
and other situations.
Senator Phillips said that if the legislature moved to
Anchorage, it could be used in the same way.
In answer to Senator Sharp's question regarding cost, Mr.
Lind said voice per hour per site was approximately $30.
With three sites it was about $90 per site. For four sites
it became less expensive. A bridge could accommodate 24
different locations. Mr. Lind guessed the cost of hardware
and hourly rate would go down.
Senator Kelly said he had used the University's video
conferencing and it was interesting. He had asked Mike
Harmon to look into the cost for setting up such a system
for the legislature. He felt it would be more effective
even though the teleconference system in place now was very
satisfactory.
ROSALEE WALKER, citizen and resident of Juneau, testified
against SB 26. She said she did not care if the move only
cost $1,000, it was $1,000 more than the state could spare
right now. She reminded the committee that legislators
represented the entire state and there were segments of the
state in third world conditions. To move the legislature to
pacify a select number of constituents was irresponsible.
Also, to move one section of the government would cause more
confusion than it would help. Change in location was not
what was needed but change in behavior was what she wanted
to see. If she was separated from her legislator, she would
pick up the phone or write a letter. She asked the
committee to refuse this concept.
Co-chair Pearce announced that SB 26 would be HELD in
committee.
SENATE BILL NO. 329:
An Act establishing a grant program relating to
veterans' services.
Co-chair Pearce announced that SB 329 was before the
committee. She asked Senator Jacko to speak to the bill.
SENATOR JACKO, sponsor of SB 329, said that the bill
basically affirmed that the welfare of Alaska residents was
important to the state of Alaska, it permitted more
efficient operations of the Veteran services programs, and
improved legislative oversight of program accomplishments
and emphasized the need for veterans in a remote areas. He
encouraged the department to simplify existing regulations
and streamline grantee selections to reduce overhead even
more than it had already. He noted that SB 329 had a zero
fiscal note. This bill called for a report on a quarterly
basis. He said that for years, the rural areas had been
ignored in the area of veteran services. He urged the
department to find creative ways to fill the void. A list
of names and phone numbers was not enough. Because of
funding reductions, almost three-quarters of Alaska veterans
would go unserved, particularly in rural areas and small
towns. This was offensive to him and he wanted a more
equitable distribution of the much needed services.
In answer to Senator Kelly, Senator Jacko said the VPSO
program was codified in statute and before it was a line
item. This bill did not effect VPSO's, only veterans.
JEFF MORRISON, Legislative Liaison, Department of Military &
Veteran Affairs, said his department had no problem with
establishing this in statute. Currently, regulations were
in place that created a grant program for administering the
Veteran Service Officer Grant Program. This would give
statutory recognition to it. The department had concern
with language on page 2, lines 5-7, that would require 25
percent of the money be spent on areas with a population of
less than 400. He said there were overriding practical
concerns about putting this in statute. First, the
department and the veteran service organization were very
supportive of the concept of outreach to rural Alaska.
Money targeted for that area had doubled but the practical
aspect was that, in order to maximize the travel funds and
make the money most efficient, the veteran's service
officers would travel to Bethel and Nome and by a variety of
means, get the word out to surrounding communities including
scanners on TV, word of mouth, advertisement through senior
centers, and other efforts to let veterans know that they
would be at a certain place at a certain time. They would
meet with anyone, receive phone calls on the advertised 800
number and do anything they could to reach the communities
short of traveling to them. Traveling to smaller
communities was very expensive and could incur costs if up
to $200 a veteran. Working out of a hub community would
drop it to $25 a veteran. It would be very difficult to
keep track of what percent was used to reach the smaller
communities. A reporting system was being developed to
track recipients by general area using veteran's telephone
number. He was concerned that this requirement would
require time that would be better used in contacts and
services to the veterans.
In answer to Senator Kelly, Mr. Morrison did not know how
many of the veterans lived in areas with a population less
than 400. He thought this might be part of the problem. He
believed that a veteran needed to have 20 years of service
to receive benefits.
Senator Jacko MOVED for passage of SB 329 out of committee
with individual recommendations. No objection being heard,
it was REPORTED OUT of committee with individual
recommendations, and a zero fiscal note for the Department
of Military & Veteran Affairs. Co-chairs Pearce and Frank,
and Senator Jacko signed "do pass." Senators Kelly and
Rieger signed "no recommendation."
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 59(MLV):
An Act making a special appropriation to the Department
of Natural Resources for refunds to certain veterans
who purchased state land and for reimbursement to the
University of Alaska for the veterans' land discount
applied to land transferred to the University of
Alaska; and providing for an effective date.
Co-chair Pearce announced that HB 59 was before the
committee and invited Representative Mulder to come to the
table.
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said HB 59 dealt with making veterans
and the University, who purchased land under the land
discount program, eligible for reimbursement.
End SFC-94 #29, Side 1
Begin SFC-94 #29, Side 2
He said that the Sixteenth Legislature passed HB 134 which
made the current veterans land benefit retroactive to April
1993 but no appropriation was included in that bill. HB 59
would reimburse anyone eligible for their discount in the
land purchase or transfer. He said the Department of
Natural Resources supported this legislation.
In answer to Senator Rieger, Representative Mulder said this
bill was drafted last year and the date would need to be
changed.
Senator Rieger MOVED amendment 1 which would update page 1,
line 13 to June 30, 1995, and delete Section 3. No
objection being heard, it was ADOPTED.
Senator Kelly MOVED for passage of SCSCSHB 59(FIN) from
committee with individual recommendations. No objection
being heard, it was REPORTED OUT of committee with a "do
pass" and zero fiscal note for the Department of Natural
Resources. Co-chairs Pearce and Frank, Senators Jacko,
Kelly and Rieger signed "do pass."
HOUSE BILL NO. 73:
An Act relating to state and local taxation and other
state regulation as affected by the Alaska Native
Claims Settlement Act, as amended, and related federal
statutes; and providing for an effective date.
Co-chair Pearce announced that HB 73 was before the
committee. She invited David Harding, aide to
Representative Maclean, sponsor of HB 73, to join the
members at the table.
DAVID HARDING said HB 73 was simple and straight forward.
It would bring state law into compliance with federal law
regarding the exemption of certain native lands from
property taxation. Several years ago the Alaska Native
Lands Settlement Act was amended to continue an exemption
from federal, state or local property taxes on ANCSA lands
until development would occur on those lands. HB 73
reflected those changes. The bill also included other
technical changes pointed out by the attorney. The bill
would not expand or reduce any benefits or protections
already mandated by federal law. It simply cleaned up state
law and insured that obsolete state statutes do not lead to
misinterpretation by assessors or others who might work with
Alaska's tax law. He said it passed the House unanimously
and carried a zero fiscal note.
In answer to Senator Jacko, Mr. Harding said that it did not
pass two years ago.
In answer to Co-chair Frank, Mr. Harding went into more
detail on the technical changes listed in the bill.
Co-chair Pearce referenced Mr. Chenoweth's memo dated
February 24, 1994. Discussion was had by Mr. Harding,
Senator Rieger and Co-chair Frank regarding this memo.
Co-chair Pearce announced that HB 73 would be HELD in
committee so the members interested could further pursue the
information in the memo by Mr. Chenoweth.
CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 36(HES):
Urging the federal Department of Health and Human
Services to repeal the "100-hour rule" relating to
employment of certain persons receiving AFDC and to
replace it with a regulation that will serve as an
incentive for AFDC recipients to accept employment of
more than 100 hours a month.
Co-chair Pearce announced that HJR 36 was before the
committee that repealed the "100 hour rule" for the AFDC
program. She invited Raymond Goad, aide to Representative
Brice to come to the table. She also noted that Ella
Fitzgerald, Public Assistant Program Manager I, Division of
Medical Assistance, Department of Health & Social Services,
was in the audience to answer questions.
RAYMOND GOAD said that the DH&SS had developed regulations
relating to the aid to families with dependent children
unemployed parent program. This set out the number of hours
a parent could work without losing eligibility for the
program. The threshold was set at 100 hours per month. If
a job was exceeded by 100 hours per month, that family
become ineligible for AFDC and Medicaid even if employment
earnings were less than the amount of the AFDC grant. This
discouraged people that want to work from taking full time
employment. Many families stay on AFDC because a job would
not support them or provide medical benefits. It meant the
state incurred increased cost to the program. Repealing the
"100 hour rule" would enable people to accept employment
that exceeded 100 hours per month that may partially support
them and reduce the amount of aid received. He mentioned
that a working group for President Clinton's plan may
include such a recommendation.
In answer to Senator Jacko, Mr. Goad said the reason for the
joint resolution was because it was a federal regulation and
not in state statute.
In answer to Co-chair Frank, ELMER LINDSTROM explained that
if a person had a job for less than 100 hours per month, it
was counted as income and a reduction in their AFDC payment
would occur. He said he did not know all the details but
knew the "100 hour rule" was a dis-incentive for people to
take low paying jobs. He said it was even more apparent to
him since he had worked with the JOBS program. This only
applied to the two parent family case load. Governor Hickel
had already petitioned the federal government to include
this in the national welfare reform effort. The resolution
would be timely in that regard. He said it was supported by
the Public Welfare Association, the National Organization of
Welfare Directors, and also was in one of the welfare reform
proposal in the state.
Co-chair Frank continued to make comments and asked
questions of Mr. Lindstrom. He said that a welfare reform
waiver would be before the legislation this year and they
could address those questions.
In answer to Senator Sharp, Mr. Lindstrom said that if a
person was eligible for AFDC, he or she would be eligible
for Medicaid.
Senator Rieger MOVED for passage of HJR 36 from committee
with individual recommendations. No objection being heard,
it was REPORTED OUT of committee with a "do pass" and zero
fiscal note for the Department of Health & Social Services.
Senators Sharp, Jacko, Kelly, Rieger, and Kerttula signed
"do pass." Co-chairs Pearce and Frank signed "no
recommendation."
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at approximately 10:30 a.m.
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