Legislature(2019 - 2020)SENATE FINANCE 532

05/08/2019 01:30 PM FINANCE

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Audio Topic
01:36:35 PM Start
01:37:05 PM SB23 || SB24
02:49:19 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ SB 23 APPROP:SUPP. PAYMENTS OF PRIOR YEARS' PFD TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
+ SB 24 PFD SUPPLEMENTAL PAYMENTS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                 SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                        May 8, 2019                                                                                             
                         1:36 p.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:36:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  von  Imhof  called the  Senate  Finance  Committee                                                                    
meeting to order at 1:36 p.m.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Natasha von Imhof, Co-Chair                                                                                             
Senator Bert Stedman, Co-Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Click Bishop                                                                                                            
Senator Lyman Hoffman                                                                                                           
Senator Peter Micciche                                                                                                          
Senator Donny Olson                                                                                                             
Senator Mike Shower                                                                                                             
Senator Bill Wielechowski                                                                                                       
Senator David Wilson                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
None                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Bruce Tangeman, Commissioner,  Alaska Department of Revenue;                                                                    
Bill  Milks,  Assistant  Attorney General,  Civil  Division,                                                                    
Labor and State Affairs Section, Department of Law.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Kim  Hays, Self,  Anchorage; James  Squyres, Self,  Deltana;                                                                    
Olivia  Fellers,  Self,   Wasilla;  Harvey  Albright,  Self,                                                                    
Sterling;  Bronson Frye,  Painters  &  Allied Trades/  Local                                                                    
Union 1959,  Anchorage; Laura Bonner, Self,  Anchorage; Beth                                                                    
Short-Rhoads, Self, Sitka; Kent  Barkhau, Self, Sitka; Linda                                                                    
Behnken,   Self,   Sitka;   Marilyn   Menish-Meucci,   Self,                                                                    
Petersburg;  Mike Alexander,  Self, Big  Lake; Larry  Slone,                                                                    
Self, Homer; Christine Hutchison,  Self, Republican Women of                                                                    
Kenai, Kenai;  Barbara Haney, Self, North  Pole; Jim Taylor,                                                                    
Self,  North  Pole;  Patrick Cole,  Self,  Anchorage;  Peter                                                                    
Mccaslin,  Self,  Kenai;  Howard  Weaver,  Self,  Anchorage;                                                                    
Matthew  Smith,  Self,  Bethel; Rob  Kinney,  Self,  Willow;                                                                    
Bernard Campbell,  Self, Wasilla;  Jeff May,  Self, Wasilla;                                                                    
Robert Henderson,  Self, Houston; Misty  Schoendaller, Self,                                                                    
Kenai;  Colin  Harrington,  Self, Wasilla;  Michael  Widney,                                                                    
Self,  Big Lake;  John  Lisenbee,  Self, Anchorage;  Kristen                                                                    
Volle, Self, Wasilla; Michael  Tavoliero, Self, Eagle River;                                                                    
Coby Brock,  Self, Anchorage;  Sheryl Smith,  Self, Wasilla;                                                                    
Elaina  Roberts,  Self,  Palmer;   Jeff  Van  Rooyen,  Self,                                                                    
Anchorage;  Gregory  Collins,  Self, Homer;  Charles  Grant,                                                                    
Self, Anchorage;  Mary-Ellen Butcher, Self,  Anchorage; Gary                                                                    
Music,  Self, Anchorage;  Gary Mulholland,  Self, Fairbanks;                                                                    
Jim  Swisher,  Self,  Wasilla;  Ron  Bernier,  Self,  Meadow                                                                    
Lakes; Ronald  Vadnais, Self, Kasilof; Debra  Sellers, Self,                                                                    
Wasilla;  Matthew Finch,  Self, Girdwood;  Pattrice Illguth,                                                                    
Self,  North Pole;  Alex Wilcox,  Self, Anchor  Point; Jancy                                                                    
Jones, Self, Chugiak.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SB 23     APPROP:SUPP. PAYMENTS OF PRIOR YEARS' PFD                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
          SB 23 was HEARD and HELD in committee for further                                                                     
          consideration.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SB 24     PFD SUPPLEMENTAL PAYMENTS                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
          SB 24 was HEARD and HELD in committee for further                                                                     
          consideration.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 23                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act making special appropriations from the                                                                             
     earnings reserve account for the payment of permanent                                                                      
     fund dividends; and providing for an effective date."                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 24                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act directing the Department of Revenue to pay                                                                         
     dividends to certain eligible individuals; and                                                                             
     providing for an effective date."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:37:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair von Imhof  explained that SB 23 and SB  24 would be                                                                    
heard  together  because  they  were  closely  related.  She                                                                    
detailed that SB 23 was  the appropriation vehicle and SB 24                                                                    
was the  accompanying policy vehicle for  the Permanent Fund                                                                    
Dividend  (PFD)  repayment  issue. She  stated  that  public                                                                    
testimony  would be  heard following  a brief  overview. The                                                                    
committee would hear public testimony  from all citizens who                                                                    
were signed  up by  2:15 p.m. She  reminded the  public that                                                                    
written testimony was welcome.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:38:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE TANGEMAN, COMMISSIONER,  ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE,                                                                    
spoke about the  issue addressed by the  bills. He explained                                                                    
that  the last  three years  saw  a decreased  PFD. The  two                                                                    
proposed bills  were the governor's  attempt to  correct the                                                                    
amount that  Alaskans did  not receive  over the  last three                                                                    
years.  He furthered  that many  Alaskans believed  that the                                                                    
funds  were used  to fund  government, when  in reality  the                                                                    
amounts  that were  not distributed  sat  in the  [Permanent                                                                    
Fund] Earnings Reserve Account (ERA).                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Tangeman declared  that  healthy returns  were                                                                    
seen over  the last  several years.  He elaborated  that the                                                                    
Permanent Fund had a 12.5 percent  return in 2017 and a 10.7                                                                    
percent return  in 2018.  He explained  that the  funds that                                                                    
had not been distributed sat  in the account and earned over                                                                    
$600  million  in  additional   state  revenue.  The  amount                                                                    
considered for  distribution was approximately  $1.9 billion                                                                    
total. He reviewed  the presentation "SB 23 and  SB 24, Bill                                                                    
Introduction and Overview" (copy on file).                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:40:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Tangeman addressed  slide 2,  "What the  Bills                                                                    
Do":                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
    SB 23 authorizes the transfer from the Earning Reserve                                                                   
     Account  (ERA) of  the Permanent  Fund to  the Dividend                                                                    
     Fund  in  order to  pay  a  dividend to  Alaskans  that                                                                    
     represents the amount that was  not paid in 2016, 2017,                                                                    
     and 2018  based on the statutory calculation                                                                               
        o The bill also authorizes the transfer of the                                                                          
          statutorily calculated PFD for the next four                                                                          
          years                                                                                                                 
    Each appropriation was calculated by subtracting the                                                                     
     dividend amount that was appropriated in each of the                                                                       
     last three  fiscal years from  the amount  estimated to                                                                    
     be what would have been calculated by AS 43.23.025(a)                                                                      
        o Those appropriations are:                                                                                             
             square4 $1,061 per person in FY20 (estimated to be                                                                 
               $565 million)                                                                                                    
             square4 $1,289 per person in FY21 (estimated to be                                                                 
               $683 million)                                                                                                    
             square4 $1,388 per person in FY22 (estimated to be                                                                 
               $736 million)                                                                                                    
    SB 24 directs the Commissioner of Revenue to include                                                                     
     these   appropriations   in   addition   to   the   PFD                                                                    
     calculation for the distribution made in October of                                                                        
     2019, 2020, and 2021.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:42:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Tangeman reviewed  slide  3,  "What the  Bills                                                                    
Do":                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
    To be eligible for the incremental payment, a person                                                                     
     must have received a PFD in the year of the reduced                                                                        
     dividend and be eligible in the year of the                                                                                
     appropriation                                                                                                              
        o To receive the incremental PFD in October 2019,                                                                       
          must have received PFD in 2016 and be eligible in                                                                     
          2019                                                                                                                  
        o To receive the incremental PFD in October 2020,                                                                       
          must have received PFD in 2017 and be eligible in                                                                     
          2020                                                                                                                  
        o To receive the incremental PFD in October 2021,                                                                       
          must have received PFD in 2018 and be eligible in                                                                     
          2021                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:43:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Tangeman  discussed  the  graph  on  slide  4,                                                                    
"Expected Impact to  the ERA." He explained  the chart which                                                                    
described  the impact  of  the proposed  action  on the  ERA                                                                    
balance. He pointed to the  left-hand chart exemplifying the                                                                    
fund's reduction,  which was impacted  by the  earnings seen                                                                    
over the last three years.  He explained that the Department                                                                    
of  Revenue (DOR)  did not  view  the proposed  change as  a                                                                    
loss. He  noted the  right-hand side of  the chart  showed a                                                                    
spike  due  to  the  proposed pay-out  of  the  dividend  to                                                                    
Alaskans.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:45:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair von Imhof requested the sectional analysis.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
BILL MILKS, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, CIVIL DIVISION,                                                                         
LABOR AND STATE AFFAIRS SECTION, DEPARTMENT OF LAW,                                                                             
reviewed the Sectional Analysis for SB 23 (copy on file):                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Section  1(a).   This  section  makes an  appropriation                                                                    
     from the  permanent fund  earnings reserve  account (AS                                                                    
     37.13.145) to  the dividend  fund (AS  43.23.045(a)) of                                                                    
     the amount  of money necessary  for a payment  of $1061                                                                    
     to eligible  individuals who  received a  2016 dividend                                                                    
     and who  are eligible  to receive  a 2019  dividend for                                                                    
     fiscal year 2020.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Section  1(b).   This  section  makes an  appropriation                                                                    
     from  the permanent  fund earnings  reserve account  to                                                                    
     the dividend fund of the  amount of money necessary for                                                                    
     a  payment   of  $1289  to  eligible   individuals  who                                                                    
     received  a  2017  dividend and  who  are  eligible  to                                                                    
     receive a 2020 dividend for fiscal year 2021.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Section  1(c).   This  section  makes an  appropriation                                                                    
     from  the permanent  fund earnings  reserve account  to                                                                    
     the dividend fund of the  amount of money necessary for                                                                    
     a  payment   of  $1388  to  eligible   individuals  who                                                                    
     received  a  2018  dividend and  who  are  eligible  to                                                                    
     receive a 2021 dividend for fiscal year 2022.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Section  1(d).   This  section  makes an  appropriation                                                                    
     from  the permanent  fund earnings  reserve account  to                                                                    
     the  dividend   fund  of  the  amount   authorized  for                                                                    
     transfer  by  the  Alaska  Permanent  Fund  Corporation                                                                    
     pursuant  to   AS  37.13.145(b)  for  the   payment  of                                                                    
     permanent fund dividends for fiscal year 2020.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Section  1(e).   This  section  makes an  appropriation                                                                    
     from  the permanent  fund earnings  reserve account  to                                                                    
     the  dividend   fund  of  the  amount   authorized  for                                                                    
     transfer  by  the  Alaska  Permanent  Fund  Corporation                                                                    
     pursuant  to   AS  37.13.145(b)  for  the   payment  of                                                                    
     permanent fund dividends for fiscal year 2021.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Section  1(f).   This  section  makes an  appropriation                                                                    
     from  the permanent  fund earnings  reserve account  to                                                                    
     the  dividend   fund  of  the  amount   authorized  for                                                                    
     transfer  by  the  Alaska  Permanent  Fund  Corporation                                                                    
     pursuant  to   AS  37.13.145(b)  for  the   payment  of                                                                    
     permanent fund dividends for fiscal year 2022.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Section  1(g).   This  section  makes an  appropriation                                                                    
     from  the permanent  fund earnings  reserve account  to                                                                    
     the  dividend   fund  of  the  amount   authorized  for                                                                    
     transfer  by  the  Alaska  Permanent  Fund  Corporation                                                                    
     pursuant  to   AS  37.13.145(b)  for  the   payment  of                                                                    
     permanent fund dividends for fiscal year 2023.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Section  2.   This section  is a  contingency provision                                                                    
     that  makes  the  appropriations  in  section  1(a)-(c)                                                                    
     contingent on  the legislature's passage  and enactment                                                                    
     into  law  of  a  bill directing  the  commissioner  of                                                                    
     revenue  to  include  certain payments  for  the  2016,                                                                    
     2017, and  2018 dividends to eligible  individuals with                                                                    
      the dividend payments for 2019, 2020, and 2021.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Section 3.   This  section makes the  appropriations in                                                                    
     section 1(b) and (e) which  relate to dividend payments                                                                    
     in 2020 effective July 1, 2020.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Section 4.   This  section makes the  appropriations in                                                                    
     section 1(c) and (f) which  relate to dividend payments                                                                    
     in 2021 effective July 1, 2021.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Section  5.   This section  makes the  appropriation in                                                                    
     section  1(g) which  relates  to  dividend payments  in                                                                    
     2022 effective July 1, 2022.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Section  6.   This  section  provides  that except  for                                                                    
     sections 3-5,  the Act  takes effect  immediately under                                                                    
     AS 01.10.070(c).                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:47:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Milks reviewed the sectional analysis for SB 24 (copy                                                                       
on file):                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Section 1(a).  This  section would amend the uncodified                                                                    
     law to  provide that notwithstanding AS  43.23.005, the                                                                    
     commissioner  of revenue  shall include  with permanent                                                                    
     fund  dividends in  2019, 2020,  and  2021 payments  to                                                                    
     eligible  individuals  of  $1,061 in  2019,  $1,289  in                                                                    
     2020, and $1,388 in 2021.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Section  1(b).   This  section  would  provide that  an                                                                    
     individual eligible in 2019 for  a payment of $1,061 in                                                                    
     addition  to   the  permanent   fund  dividend   is  an                                                                    
     individual who received a  2016 permanent fund dividend                                                                    
     and  is  eligible  to receive  a  2019  permanent  fund                                                                    
     dividend.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Section  1(c).   This  section  would  provide that  an                                                                    
     individual eligible in 2020 for  a payment of $1,289 in                                                                    
     addition  to   the  permanent   fund  dividend   is  an                                                                    
     individual who received a  2017 permanent fund dividend                                                                    
     and  is  eligible  to receive  a  2020  permanent  fund                                                                    
     dividend.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Section  1(d).   This  section  would  provide that  an                                                                    
     individual eligible in 2021 for  a payment of $1,388 in                                                                    
     addition  to   the  permanent   fund  dividend   is  an                                                                    
     individual who received a  2018 permanent fund dividend                                                                    
     and  is  eligible  to receive  a  2021  permanent  fund                                                                    
     dividend.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Section  1(e).   This  section would  provide than  the                                                                    
     amount  appropriated from  the permanent  fund earnings                                                                    
     reserve  account (AS  37.13.145) to  the dividend  fund                                                                    
     (AS 43.23.045(a))  for the payments in  section 1(a) to                                                                    
     eligible   individuals   during   2019-2021   may   not                                                                    
     contribute   to  the   calculation  for   the  20192021                                                                    
     dividends under AS 43.23.025.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Section 2.   This  provides for an  immediate effective                                                                    
     date.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:48:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wielechowski  asked about SB 23  and forward funding                                                                    
the  back  payments  for  the  PFD.  He  recalled  that  the                                                                    
attorney general  had written  an opinion  on April  9, 2019                                                                    
specifying    that    forward    funding    education    was                                                                    
unconstitutional.  He wondered  how forward  funding in  the                                                                    
case of the proposed legislation was different.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Tangeman referenced  past  forward funding  of                                                                    
education, in which  funds were taken from  the General Fund                                                                    
or Constitutional  Budget Reserve  (CBR) and  deposited into                                                                    
the Public Education  Fund. He considered that  the case was                                                                    
different because the  money was available in the  ERA to be                                                                    
appropriated in future years.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  von  Imhof  added that  theoretically  funds  were                                                                    
available in the CBR to fund  education. She asked if a vote                                                                    
was required  each year to obtain  the funds. Alternatively,                                                                    
she  wondered if  there would  be an  automatic transfer  (a                                                                    
"sweep") from the ERA.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Tangeman  replied that an annual  vote would be                                                                    
required to access the funds.  He detailed that the governor                                                                    
was   not  interested   in  tying   the   hands  of   future                                                                    
legislatures and  governors. The  department knew  the funds                                                                    
were  available  and  could have  drafted  the  language  to                                                                    
direct  $1.95 billion  into the  dividend fund  immediately,                                                                    
which would have  been a true forward funding  of the bills.                                                                    
There were many  discussions about how much  (if any) should                                                                    
be moved from  the ERA to the corpus of  the Permanent Fund.                                                                    
He noted  that the legislation  could be changed  to reflect                                                                    
that option if  the committee chose to do  so. He reiterated                                                                    
binding future  legislatures was something the  governor had                                                                    
elected not to do.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:51:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair von Imhof  asked Mr. Milks how  the situation under                                                                    
discussion differed from the education situation.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Milks  thought   Commissioner  Tangeman  had  correctly                                                                    
identified the  difference. He explained that  the education                                                                    
appropriation  had  been an  effort  to  appropriate in  the                                                                    
future,  revenues  that  did  not  exist;  it  had  been  an                                                                    
appropriation for  a forward year based  on future revenues.                                                                    
The  appropriation  bill  before  the  committee  sought  to                                                                    
appropriate   existing  revenues,   which  was   similar  to                                                                    
appropriations  made  by the  legislature  in  the past.  He                                                                    
explained  that the  funds  were currently  in  the ERA.  He                                                                    
referenced the attorney general's  April 9, 2019 letter that                                                                    
made the specific  point - that unlike  past forward funding                                                                    
appropriations that  committed current  year revenues  to be                                                                    
spent   in  future   years,   the  education   appropriation                                                                    
attempted to commit future year revenues.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair von Imhof  asked how the CBR fit  into the picture.                                                                    
She  wondered if  the CBR  was  considered future  revenues,                                                                    
current revenues, or a savings account.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Milks replied  that the CBR was another  state fund that                                                                    
was available for appropriation based on specific rules.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:53:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wielechowski discussed that  SB 23 would appropriate                                                                    
funds for FY  21 through FY 23. He believed  the funds could                                                                    
be  vetoed in  future years  or would  have to  be voted  on                                                                    
again in the future.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Milks  replied that  that  the  bill would  appropriate                                                                    
current revenues, which  could be subject to a  veto. In the                                                                    
future  years,   the  governor   intended  to   produce  the                                                                    
appropriation,  which  would  be   subject  to  a  veto.  He                                                                    
explained, the same was not  true for the forward funding of                                                                    
future revenues  for education.  There was  a constitutional                                                                    
framework built  around an annual budgeting  model where all                                                                    
revenues were on  the table for the  legislature to consider                                                                    
and both the legislature and governor  had a role to play in                                                                    
a  potential  veto.  The constitutional  model  was  further                                                                    
developed through  the prohibition against  dedicated funds,                                                                    
which  prohibited the  dedication  of future  revenues to  a                                                                    
special purpose. The administration  believed the courts had                                                                    
addressed the issue of dedicated  funds; the prohibition was                                                                    
broad. The  practical effect of the  education appropriation                                                                    
was to make a substantial  portion of the state's budget off                                                                    
limits; the  dollars had essentially been  earmarked for one                                                                    
purpose even though they were not in the state's account.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:56:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilson  highlighted the bill's proposal  to withdraw                                                                    
approximately $11  billion from  the ERA  in the  next three                                                                    
years. He  stated that Mr.  King [Ed King,  Chief Economist,                                                                    
Office  of Management  and Budget]  projected  that the  ERA                                                                    
would earn about $12 billion  in the next three years, which                                                                    
left  wiggle room  of  about $1  billion.  He wondered  what                                                                    
would happen to  SB 24 if there was a  shortfall to the ERA.                                                                    
He noted there  were a couple of proposals underway  to do a                                                                    
large transfer from  the ERA to the corpus  of the Permanent                                                                    
Fund.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Tangeman  stated that he would  not address the                                                                    
dollars being  discussed for  transfer from  the ERA  to the                                                                    
corpus  of the  Permanent  Fund. He  explained  that if  the                                                                    
Alaska Permanent  Fund Corporation  (APFC) did not  meet its                                                                    
expected  return  levels  over  the next  three  years,  the                                                                    
dividend amount would  be impacted. While the ERA  may see a                                                                    
hit,  the amount  of the  PFD  would be  greatly reduced  in                                                                    
future years.  He informed the  committee that  the dividend                                                                    
had been $878  in 2012 and $900  in 2013 as a  result of the                                                                    
2008 [market]  correction. He  stated earnings  estimates of                                                                    
$12  billion  and withdrawal  of  $11  billion in  the  next                                                                    
several years showed  the big picture but did  not factor in                                                                    
the calculation  of earnings  that fluctuated  from year-to-                                                                    
year.  He explained  that if  returns were  not realized  it                                                                    
would impact the  dividend, the amount in  the ERA available                                                                    
for transfer to the corpus,  and the percent of market value                                                                    
(POMV).                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:58:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Wilson  asked if  transferring  $7  billion to  $12                                                                    
billion from  the ERA  to the corpus  of the  Permanent Fund                                                                    
would impact the current versions of the bills.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Tangeman replied  that the  transfer from  the                                                                    
ERA to  the corpus  represented moving  money from  the left                                                                    
pocket  to  the  right  pocket  from  the  Permanent  Fund's                                                                    
perspective;  it  would still  be  a  $65 billion  fund.  He                                                                    
stated  it  would  not necessarily  change  the  calculation                                                                    
amounts, but it would impact available cash and cashflow.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilson  asked if there  would be enough  cashflow to                                                                    
pay out supplementals and pay for government services.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Tangeman believed it  was a staged approach. He                                                                    
stated that  the bills before the  committee represented the                                                                    
first step to correct the  past dividends that were not paid                                                                    
in full. He  noted it would reset the bar  to $14 billion or                                                                    
$15  billion.  He  believed step  two  should  address  what                                                                    
should be left in the ERA  and what should be transferred to                                                                    
the  corpus.  He had  heard  numerous  numbers discussed  by                                                                    
legislators  including   $5.5  billion,  $14   billion,  $12                                                                    
billion, and  $8 billion.  He believed it  was hard  to make                                                                    
other  decisions until  the plan  was  known (including  the                                                                    
specific  number   and  why  it   had  been   selected).  He                                                                    
summarized   that  the   governor  believed   repaying  past                                                                    
dividends was  step one.  After that  point, there  could be                                                                    
debate on  what should be done  with the balance of  the ERA                                                                    
(e.g. if the balance was $16 billion).                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:00:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  von Imhof  OPENED  public  testimony. She  limited                                                                    
public testimony to one minute.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:00:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KIM  HAYS, SELF,  ANCHORAGE (via  teleconference), testified                                                                    
in  strong opposition  to  the bills.  She  did not  believe                                                                    
paying  a  super-sized  PFD   was  worth  gutting  essential                                                                    
services. She had heard  from numerous economists testifying                                                                    
to the  legislature that it was  possible to come up  with a                                                                    
solution  that paid  a reasonable  PFD  and protected  state                                                                    
services. She  thought the bills were  short-term fixes that                                                                    
would create and  exacerbate a long-term problem.  She was a                                                                    
strong  supporter  of  education  and was  willing  to  take                                                                    
smaller  PFDs if  it meant  funding education.  She did  not                                                                    
believe a  one-time large payout  was not worth the  cost to                                                                    
society  through cuts  to seniors,  children,  and the  most                                                                    
vulnerable  Alaskans. She  asked the  legislature to  find a                                                                    
solution to  protect essential state services  and provide a                                                                    
reasonable dividend.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:02:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JAMES   SQUYRES,   SELF,   DELTANA   (via   teleconference),                                                                    
testified support of  the bills. He stated  that the statute                                                                    
calculated and  required a full  PFD. He continued  that the                                                                    
legislature  had created  statutes for  Alaskans to  follow,                                                                    
but it  did not  follow the statutes.  He emphasized  it was                                                                    
time for  the legislature to  restore trust to  Alaskans. He                                                                    
believed  the behavior  could not  be  allowed. He  stressed                                                                    
that the unpaid PFDs belonged  in the hands of Alaskans, not                                                                    
the  ERA. He  reviewed  various errors  that  amounted to  a                                                                    
crime. He  reasoned that failing  to pay back past  PFDs set                                                                    
precedent to what amounted to a crime.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:04:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
OLIVIA   FELLERS,   SELF,  WASILLA   (via   teleconference),                                                                    
testified in  support of  SB 23 and  SB 24.  She underscored                                                                    
that  when  former  Governor   Jay  Hammond  instituted  the                                                                    
Permanent Fund it was not to  be used to run the government;                                                                    
it was  to be used  for the  people of Alaska.  She believed                                                                    
the legislature could figure out  another way to balance the                                                                    
budget.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:05:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HARVEY  ALBRIGHT,   SELF,  STERLING   (via  teleconference),                                                                    
testified  in  support of  the  legislation.  He stated  the                                                                    
dividend was one-third of what  legislators were paid in per                                                                    
diem and he  did not see any legislators  donating their per                                                                    
diem back. He wondered  why the legislature thought Alaskans                                                                    
should  give when  the legislature  was  not. He  elaborated                                                                    
that legislators  received $250 per day,  which he estimated                                                                    
to be roughly $30,000 for 120 days.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:06:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BRONSON FRYE,  PAINTERS & ALLIED  TRADES/ LOCAL  UNION 1959,                                                                    
ANCHORAGE   (via   teleconference),  testified   in   strong                                                                    
opposition to SB 23 and SB  24. He agreed that a super-sized                                                                    
PFD would be nice, but  the cuts to valuable social services                                                                    
and  education and  the outsourcing  of Alaskans'  jobs were                                                                    
not worth it. He did not  believe it was appropriate to pass                                                                    
the bills. He urged the committee to vote against them.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:07:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LAURA   BONNER,   SELF,  ANCHORAGE   (via   teleconference),                                                                    
testified in  opposition to the bills.  She highlighted that                                                                    
PFDs  had  been  reduced  in  past years  to  pay  for  core                                                                    
services including education,  senior services and veterans,                                                                    
disabled  individuals,  road   maintenance,  ferry  service,                                                                    
public  safety,  court  system,  corrections,  and  deferred                                                                    
maintenance. She stated that PFDs  were an important part of                                                                    
the state's economy, but not  more important than the needed                                                                    
services and the maintenance of  state assets. She supported                                                                    
a  reasonable PFD  and believed  the bills  would speed  the                                                                    
demise of the dividend program.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:08:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BETH   SHORT-RHOADS,  SELF,   SITKA  (via   teleconference),                                                                    
testified  in strong  opposition to  SB  23 and  SB 24.  She                                                                    
believed  paying out  $1.9 billion  in  PFDs was  incredibly                                                                    
irresponsible  during  a  time  of  deep  budget  cuts.  She                                                                    
stressed that  the dividend was not  a constitutional right.                                                                    
She detailed  that she would  rather see the money  used for                                                                    
essential  items  including   schools,  infrastructure,  and                                                                    
healthcare. She  implored the committee to  vote against the                                                                    
bills.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:09:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KENT  BARKHAU, SELF,  SITKA (via  teleconference), testified                                                                    
in  opposition  to  SB  23   and  SB  24,  which  he  deemed                                                                    
irresponsible.  He  believed  attempting to  undue  previous                                                                    
responsible   decision  making   would  be   a  large   step                                                                    
backwards.  He   believed  that  the  state   required  real                                                                    
leadership leading  forward. He encouraged the  committee to                                                                    
oppose the legislation.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:10:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LINDA  BEHNKEN,  SELF,  SITKA  (via  teleconference),  spoke                                                                    
against SB  23 and SB  24. She believed the  best investment                                                                    
in  Alaska's future  was  investment  in services  including                                                                    
education, healthcare,  ferry, and other  critical services.                                                                    
She  believed  issuing  retrospective PFDs  would  undermine                                                                    
Alaska's  ability to  take care  of its  future and  present                                                                    
needs.  The  Permanent  Fund  was  there  to  assist  Alaska                                                                    
through fiscal  challenges and to help  the state transition                                                                    
to  a  renewable  and sustainable  economy.  She  asked  the                                                                    
legislature  to use  funds rather  than  deepen the  current                                                                    
fiscal  crisis. She  urged the  committee to  invest in  the                                                                    
state's future.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:11:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARILYN     MENISH-MEUCCI,     SELF,     PETERSBURG     (via                                                                    
teleconference),  testified in  opposition to  SB 23  and SB                                                                    
24. She did not believe the  state needed to pay anyone back                                                                    
but needed the  services the money would pay  for. She asked                                                                    
for  full  funding  of the  Alaska  Marine  Highway  System,                                                                    
public schools, Pioneer Homes,  and public broadcasting. She                                                                    
urged the committee to vote against the bills.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:12:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE  ALEXANDER,   SELF,  BIG  LAKE   (via  teleconference),                                                                    
testified  in support  of SB  23 and  SB 24.  He stated  the                                                                    
ferry system was "out done"  and fully funding education had                                                                    
resulted  in kids  reading last  in the  nation. He  thought                                                                    
there had to  be another answer. He estimated  the state had                                                                    
taken  approximately  $12,000  from  him and  his  wife.  He                                                                    
stated that  the money belonged  to the people to  help with                                                                    
things  like car  payments and  getting  through winter.  He                                                                    
wanted his money back. He  thought the legislature should be                                                                    
cutting waste.  He supported  the passage  of the  bills. He                                                                    
was  amenable  to the  legislature  putting  money into  the                                                                    
corpus of the Permanent Fund after paying out the PFDs.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:14:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LARRY  SLONE, SELF,  HOMER  (via teleconference),  supported                                                                    
backpay  of   the  PFDs,  but   believed  both   bills  were                                                                    
procedurally flawed.  He asked  why the bills  qualified the                                                                    
future  distribution  by stretching  it  out  over the  next                                                                    
three years  if the purpose  was to remedy the  past failure                                                                    
to comply  with statutory  law and  distribute the  full PFD                                                                    
for 2016 to  2018. He stated the money was  available in the                                                                    
ERA.  He  reminded the  committee  that  the full  PFDs  had                                                                    
already  been  vetoed once  before.  He  believed the  bills                                                                    
would subject the  full payment to future risk.  He noted it                                                                    
had  been   clearly  stated  that  the   payments  would  be                                                                    
endangered by a potential transfer  from the ERA to the fund                                                                    
corpus.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:15:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHRISTINE HUTCHISON, SELF, REPUBLICAN  WOMEN OF KENAI, KENAI                                                                    
(via teleconference),  testified in support of  the bills if                                                                    
they conformed to  statute. He believed that  the PFD checks                                                                    
were  distributed based  on statute.  She stressed  that the                                                                    
statutes had been violated in  an effort to fund the budget.                                                                    
She  emphasized  that expenses  must  be  cut. She  did  not                                                                    
support  subsidizing the  ferries.  She  thought there  were                                                                    
several  other things  that needed  to be  cut. She  did not                                                                    
believe the PFD  check should be used for  that purpose. She                                                                    
believed  the  Permanent  Fund   had  been  designed  for  a                                                                    
specific  purpose under  statute.  She  reiterated that  the                                                                    
statutes  had   not  been  followed.  She   underscored  the                                                                    
importance of following statute.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:17:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BARBARA  HANEY,  SELF,   NORTH  POLE  (via  teleconference),                                                                    
testified  in support  of  SB  23 and  SB  24. She  believed                                                                    
funding the  PFD would bring  back diversity to  the private                                                                    
sector. She  was not  opposed to the  ferry system,  but she                                                                    
thought  the  state was  spending  a  substantial amount  on                                                                    
something that only benefited a  small portion of the state.                                                                    
She did not want Alaska to become like Venezuela.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:18:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JIM TAYLOR, SELF, NORTH POLE  (via teleconference), spoke in                                                                    
favor of the  bills. He believed many had lost  sight of the                                                                    
fact  that  PFDs  were  Alaskans' share  of  the  state  oil                                                                    
resources. He believed that the  statute had been set out to                                                                    
divide the resource money between  the state and the people.                                                                    
He  saw the  state getting  a  larger and  larger share.  He                                                                    
asked the committee to vote in favor of the bills.                                                                              
2:19:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PATRICK   COLE,   SELF,  ANCHORAGE   (via   teleconference),                                                                    
testified in  support of SB  23 and  SB 24. He  believed the                                                                    
state  would  benefit  more  from  the  bills  than  if  the                                                                    
legislature spent the  money on other things.  He had worked                                                                    
hard as a  construction worker for 35 years  and he believed                                                                    
it was  a shame the money  had been taken. He  stressed that                                                                    
his grandkids could benefit from the money.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:20:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PETER MCCASLIN, SELF,  KENAI (via teleconference), testified                                                                    
in  support of  SB 23  and SB  24. He  stated that  over the                                                                    
years the  legislature had repeatedly attacked  the fund. He                                                                    
had  watched  government end  its  obligations  to fund  the                                                                    
state retirement plan  - he believed it was  out of control.                                                                    
He thought school programs had  steadily declined as funding                                                                    
had  increased. He  had seen  government  expand beyond  the                                                                    
state's means. He  stressed it was time to  reel spending in                                                                    
and straighten things out. He  fully supported the bills and                                                                    
the governor.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:21:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HOWARD   WEAVER,  SELF,   ANCHORAGE  (via   teleconference),                                                                    
testified in  support of SB  23 and  SB 24. He  believed the                                                                    
purpose of the  Permanent Fund was to give  people access to                                                                    
minerals. He supported the bills and governor.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:22:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MATTHEW SMITH, SELF,  BETHEL (via teleconference), testified                                                                    
in support  of SB 23 and  SB 24. He detailed  that residents                                                                    
in Bethel needed  the funds due to the expense  of living in                                                                    
the  region. He  shared that  the  funds taken  in the  past                                                                    
several years had been at least  a quarter of his income and                                                                    
half his  wife's income. He  thought the  legislature should                                                                    
live within its own budget and not steal the people's PFDs.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:22:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROB  KINNEY, SELF,  WILLOW  (via  teleconference), spoke  in                                                                    
favor  of SB  23 and  SB  24. He  thought the  PFD had  been                                                                    
"nickeled  and  dimed to  death"  in  recent years.  He  was                                                                    
retired and  on a fixed  income. He  depended on the  PFD to                                                                    
help with land taxes and other costs.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:23:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BERNARD  CAMPBELL,   SELF,  WASILLA   (via  teleconference),                                                                    
testified in  support of SB  23. He stressed that  the money                                                                    
belonged to  the citizens, not the  legislature. He detailed                                                                    
that the fund  had been established in a  way that prevented                                                                    
the  state government  from robbing  the  money. He  thought                                                                    
there  were  plenty  of places  the  legislature  could  cut                                                                    
wasteful spending. He stressed  that millions of dollars had                                                                    
been spent  on a ferry that  no one wanted. He  directed the                                                                    
legislature to leave the Permanent Fund alone.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:24:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JEFF MAY,  SELF, WASILLA (via teleconference),  testified in                                                                    
support of SB 23 and SB 24.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:25:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT  HENDERSON,   SELF,  HOUSTON   (via  teleconference),                                                                    
testified in support of SB 23  and SB 24. He depended on the                                                                    
PFD for  his property  taxes and  living. He  thought taking                                                                    
the money was  theft. He stated that his  children were both                                                                    
fighting  in  the  military  for   their  country  and  they                                                                    
depended on the  PFD. He had watched the  legislature run on                                                                    
the PFD repeatedly.  He supported the governor  and wanted a                                                                    
budget the legislature could live within.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:26:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MISTY  SCHOENDALLER,   SELF,  KENAI   (via  teleconference),                                                                    
testified in  support of SB 23  and SB 24. She  believed the                                                                    
governor was trying  to do the right thing.  She stated that                                                                    
the legislature did not have the  right to take the PFD. She                                                                    
thought  the legislature  was spending  money the  state did                                                                    
not have.  She believed  there were  many places  the budget                                                                    
could be cut. She was working  all of the time and was still                                                                    
having trouble paying her bills. She counted on the PFD.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:27:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COLIN  HARRINGTON,   SELF,  WASILLA   (via  teleconference),                                                                    
testified  in support  of the  legislation.  He thought  the                                                                    
government needed to  keep its portion of the  money and the                                                                    
residents  should  get  their portion.  He  stated  that  he                                                                    
wanted  the  government to  allow  residents  to have  their                                                                    
money. He  thought the legislature  needed to  stop amending                                                                    
and  changing  the PFD  and  needed  to start  amending  and                                                                    
changing the way they spent money.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:28:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL  WIDNEY,   SELF,  BIG  LAKE   (via  teleconference),                                                                    
testified in support of SB 23  and SB 24. He stated that the                                                                    
money for  the PFD  was the people's  and the  people should                                                                    
get to decide how to spend  it. He stated that over the past                                                                    
decade or so extra spending  had taken place when oil prices                                                                    
had been high. He observed it  was hard to cut spending, but                                                                    
residents had  elected the governor  to do the hard  job. He                                                                    
supported the  governor in his  efforts defend  the people's                                                                    
wealth. He thought the people should  be able to vote on the                                                                    
issue.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:29:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN   LISENBEE,  SELF,   ANCHORAGE  (via   teleconference),                                                                    
testified in support  of SB 23 and SB 24.  He remarked there                                                                    
were  less  than  1  million residents  in  Alaska,  and  he                                                                    
thought it  was pretty  bad when the  government had  to cut                                                                    
into the people's dividend in  order to pay for services. He                                                                    
thought there were  many places the budget could  be cut. He                                                                    
supported the governor.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:30:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KRISTEN   VOLLE,   SELF,   WASILLA   (via   teleconference),                                                                    
testified  in support  of  SB  23 and  SB  24.  She did  not                                                                    
believe it was right for  the government to steal money from                                                                    
the Alaskan people because of its poor choices.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:31:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL TAVOLIERO,  SELF, EAGLE RIVER  (via teleconference),                                                                    
testified in support of SB 23 and SB 24.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:31:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COBY BROCK,  SELF, ANCHORAGE (via  teleconference), believed                                                                    
people needed to  leverage their money better  with the PFD.                                                                    
He suggested cornering  the silver market and no  one in the                                                                    
state would ever worry about money again.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:32:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SHERYL SMITH, SELF,  WASILLA (via teleconference), testified                                                                    
in support of SB 23 and  SB 24. She stated that the families                                                                    
in  the  Mat-Su  Valley  needed the  money  to  raise  their                                                                    
children and  foster children. She  remarked that  the state                                                                    
did not  pay foster  parents enough  to meet  the children's                                                                    
needs. She  wanted her children to  receive their dividends.                                                                    
She  stressed that  the constitution  specified  it was  the                                                                    
people's money  and the legislature  did not have  the right                                                                    
to take it. She supported the governor.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:33:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ELAINA   ROBERTS,   SELF,   PALMER   (via   teleconference),                                                                    
testified in support  of SB 23 and SB 24.  She wanted to see                                                                    
the full PFD  returned to the people of  Alaska. She thought                                                                    
the   government  had   taxed  residents   already  to   run                                                                    
government. She  thought it was  ludicrous that more  of the                                                                    
money  meant  for  Alaskans  had   been  used  to  bail  out                                                                    
government's irresponsible spending.  She wondered about the                                                                    
incentive for the  government to live within  its means. She                                                                    
believed  the  legislature needed  to  find  a way  to  live                                                                    
within its means  as residents were required to  do in their                                                                    
own homes.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:34:11 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:35:10 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
JEFF  VAN  ROOYEN,  SELF,  ANCHORAGE  (via  teleconference),                                                                    
testified  in  support of  SB  23  and  SB 24.  He  compared                                                                    
raiding  the  PFD  to  the raiding  of  Social  Security  by                                                                    
Congress. He  stated politicians  had taken  people's money.                                                                    
He  cautioned  that  politicians  could  be  voted  out.  He                                                                    
stressed that the PFD was not  meant to be spent on whatever                                                                    
the legislature chose. He underscored  the PFD was meant for                                                                    
the  people.  He  stated  it  was  wrong  for  the  previous                                                                    
governor  to take  the funds.  He was  upset about  what the                                                                    
legislature and the former governor had done.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:37:24 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:38:29 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
GREGORY   COLLINS,   SELF,   HOMER   (via   teleconference),                                                                    
testified in support  of SB 23 and SB 24.  He thought giving                                                                    
out the PFD would do much  more good than spending the money                                                                    
on the  state government.  He stressed  the need  people had                                                                    
for the PFD.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:39:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHARLES   GRANT,  SELF,   ANCHORAGE  (via   teleconference),                                                                    
testified in support of SB 23  and SB 24. He stated that the                                                                    
legislature had  torn the PFD  apart. He told  the committee                                                                    
the PFD  needed to  be put  back together  and given  to the                                                                    
people. He stressed that the  people deserved and needed the                                                                    
PFD.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:39:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARY-ELLEN  BUTCHER, SELF,  ANCHORAGE (via  teleconference),                                                                    
testified in support of SB 23  and SB 24. She noted that the                                                                    
money  she   received  through   Social  Security   was  not                                                                    
sufficient. She stated  Alaska was a hard state  to live in.                                                                    
She asked  the legislature to  give the people  something to                                                                    
help them survive.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:40:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GARY MUSIC, SELF,  ANCHORAGE (via teleconference), testified                                                                    
in support of SB 23 and  SB 24. He noted that the government                                                                    
took and took  and took. He stressed that  people needed the                                                                    
PFD. He  thought the legislature  should keep its  hands off                                                                    
the money.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:41:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GARY  MULHOLLAND,  SELF,   FAIRBANKS  (via  teleconference),                                                                    
testified in  support of SB  23 and  SB 24. He  believed the                                                                    
legislature  should never  have touched  the money  to begin                                                                    
with. He  thought the issue  deserved a vote of  the people.                                                                    
He directed the legislature to  quit telling the people they                                                                    
did not know what they  wanted. He wanted the legislature to                                                                    
prove that  the money  did not stay  in Alaska.  He stressed                                                                    
that  the PFD  money stayed  in Alaska  in the  form of  tax                                                                    
payments, heating bills, and jobs.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:42:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JIM SWISHER,  SELF, WASILLA (via  teleconference), testified                                                                    
in support  of SB 23  and Governor Dunleavy. He  stated that                                                                    
the PFD meant a lot to  seniors and likened it to Christmas.                                                                    
He asked the legislature to keep  its hands out of the piggy                                                                    
bank.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:43:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RON  BERNIER,  SELF,   MEADOW  LAKES  (via  teleconference),                                                                    
testified in support  of SB 23 and SB 24.  He shared that he                                                                    
used the  money to  educate his  children because  the state                                                                    
had done  a poor job  with education. His family  was saving                                                                    
the money  to help pay  for his children's  college expenses                                                                    
or  to  purchase  a  piece  of  property.  He  implored  the                                                                    
committee to support the bills.  He asked the legislature to                                                                    
keep its hands off the PFD.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:44:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RONALD   VADNAIS,   SELF,  KASILOF   (via   teleconference),                                                                    
testified  in support  of  the bills  and  the governor.  He                                                                    
asked  the  legislature  to  balance   the  budget  and  cut                                                                    
spending. He believed putting the  funds in the hands of the                                                                    
people  to  decide how  to  spend  the  money was  the  best                                                                    
option. He was concerned  people would start leaving Alaska.                                                                    
He was  concerned about  freezing to death  if his  heat was                                                                    
cut  off; he  did not  have money  to spend  on firewood  or                                                                    
fuel.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:45:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DEBRA   SELLERS,   SELF,   WASILLA   (via   teleconference),                                                                    
testified in support of SB 23 and  SB 24. She was on a fixed                                                                    
income  and relied  on  the  PFD. She  shared  that the  PFD                                                                    
helped pay the bills. She supported the governor.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:45:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MATTHEW  FINCH, SELF,  GIRDWOOD (via  teleconference), spoke                                                                    
in favor of the bills and  the governor. He used the PFD for                                                                    
firewood  to keep  warm in  the winter.  He elaborated  that                                                                    
others used  the funds to  dress their children and  to eat.                                                                    
He stated the  legislature needed to balance  its budget and                                                                    
live within its means.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:46:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PATTRICE  ILLGUTH, SELF,  NORTH  POLE (via  teleconference),                                                                    
testified in support of the  bills. She was a home schooling                                                                    
mom of  five children. She spoke  to the high cost  of goods                                                                    
in the  region. She stressed  that when the  former governor                                                                    
had  cut the  PFD  it had  hurt her  family.  She asked  the                                                                    
legislature to listen to the people and support the bills.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:47:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ALEX WILCOX, SELF, ANCHOR  POINT (via teleconference), spoke                                                                    
in  favor of  the bills.  He recalled  when former  Governor                                                                    
Hammond  had  established  the Permanent  Fund  program  for                                                                    
Alaskan citizens.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
JANCY JONES,  SELF, CHUGIAK (via  teleconference), testified                                                                    
in support  of legislation and  the governor. She  asked the                                                                    
legislature to restore the PFDs.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:48:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator   Bishop  provided   the  email   address  for   any                                                                    
additional public testimony.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bishop CLOSED public testimony.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SB  23  was   HEARD  and  HELD  in   committee  for  further                                                                    
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SB  24  was   HEARD  and  HELD  in   committee  for  further                                                                    
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bishop reviewed the schedule for the following day.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
2:49:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 2:49 p.m.                                                                                          

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
SB 23 TL - Senate President.pdf SFIN 5/8/2019 1:30:00 PM
SB 23
CS SB23 Sectional.pdf SFIN 5/8/2019 1:30:00 PM
SB 23
CS SB24 Sectional.pdf SFIN 5/8/2019 1:30:00 PM
SB 24
SB 23 - 24 Support Sadzewicz.pdf SFIN 5/8/2019 1:30:00 PM
SB 23
SB23 and SB24 Presentation. S FIN-5.8.2019.pdf SFIN 5/8/2019 1:30:00 PM
SB 23
SB 24
SB23 and SB24 testimony McDaniel.pdf SFIN 5/8/2019 1:30:00 PM
SB 23
SB 24
SB 23 and 24 Public Support Letters Packet 1.pdf SFIN 5/8/2019 1:30:00 PM
SB 23
SB 23 and 24 Public Support Letters Packet 2.pdf SFIN 5/8/2019 1:30:00 PM
SB 23