Legislature(2017 - 2018)SENATE FINANCE 532

03/28/2018 09:00 AM FINANCE

Note: the audio and video recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.

Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as

Audio Topic
09:01:46 AM Start
09:02:47 AM SB192
10:52:18 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled: TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled but Not Heard
                 SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                      March 28, 2018                                                                                            
                         9:01 a.m.                                                                                              
9:01:46 AM                                                                                                                    
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
Co-Chair  MacKinnon  called  the  Senate  Finance  Committee                                                                    
meeting to order at 9:01 a.m.                                                                                                   
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
Senator Lyman Hoffman, Co-Chair                                                                                                 
Senator Anna MacKinnon, Co-Chair                                                                                                
Senator Click Bishop, Vice-Chair                                                                                                
Senator Peter Micciche                                                                                                          
Senator Donny Olson                                                                                                             
Senator Gary Stevens                                                                                                            
Senator Natasha von Imhof                                                                                                       
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
Brittany  Hartman, Staff,  Senator  Anna MacKinnon;  Senator                                                                    
John  Coghill,  Member,   Senate  State  Affairs  Committee;                                                                    
Jordan  Schilling,  Staff,   Senator  John  Coghill;  Carmen                                                                    
Lowry,  Executive  Director,   Alaska  Network  of  Domestic                                                                    
Violence;  Ed   Sniffen,  Deputy  Attorney   General,  Civil                                                                    
Division,   Department  of   Law;  Dan   Spencer,  Director,                                                                    
Administrative Services, Department of Law.                                                                                     
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
Alpheus Bullard, Counsel,  Legislative Legal; Lynette Clark,                                                                    
Self, Fox.                                                                                                                      
SB 154    PFD CONTRIBUTIONS TO GENERAL FUND                                                                                     
          SB 154 was SCHEDULED but not HEARD.                                                                                   
SB 192    VOTING: ADDRESS CONFIDENTIALITY; FEES                                                                                 
          SB 192 was HEARD and HELD in committee for                                                                            
          further consideration.                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 192                                                                                                           
     "An  Act relating  to  the  confidentiality of  voters'                                                                    
     addresses;  and relating  to the  fees  charged by  the                                                                    
     division  of  elections for  providing  a  copy of  the                                                                    
     state's  master voter  registration list  or a  copy of                                                                    
    the list of individuals who voted in an election."                                                                          
9:02:47 AM                                                                                                                    
BRITTANY HARTMAN,  STAFF, SENATOR ANNA  MACKINNON, explained                                                                    
the  original  intent  of  the bill.  She  stated  that  the                                                                    
constitution  outlined  that  the  right of  the  people  to                                                                    
privacy  was  recognized and  shall  not  be infringed.  She                                                                    
stressed that  the constitutions allowed Alaskans  the right                                                                    
to privacy  and prioritized  victims' rights. She  felt that                                                                    
the  state was  not  living  up to  its  own standards,  and                                                                    
should  be  leading  the  nation  on  privacy  and  victims'                                                                    
rights.  She shared  that  some were  not  happy that  their                                                                    
addresses  were  being sold  by  the  state to  the  general                                                                    
public.  She  remarked  that  some   were  choosing  not  to                                                                    
register to  vote, because of  the lack of privacy  of their                                                                    
information. She  stated that  there were  specific requests                                                                    
related to public safety and  privacy. She shared that there                                                                    
was   an  individual   who  had   escaped  persecution   and                                                                    
harassment by her family. She  chose not to register to vote                                                                    
due to  fear of being  found by  her family. She  stated the                                                                    
after  years of  not voting  she  and her  husband chose  to                                                                    
register  to  vote. She  stated  that  within two  weeks  of                                                                    
registering to  vote, her  family had  found her  and caused                                                                    
harassment.  That  harassment  was from  someone  considered                                                                    
unstable, however they did not  want to file charges against                                                                    
that family member.                                                                                                             
Senator  Olson  wondered whether  there  were  items in  the                                                                    
House  district that  may not  be questionable.  Ms. Hartman                                                                    
stated  that the  original bill  specifically mentioned  the                                                                    
Co-Chair MacKinnon  announced that she was  the sponsor, but                                                                    
she  asked that  the chair  of the  State Affairs  Committee                                                                    
address the committee substitute.                                                                                               
9:08:02 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR   JOHN  COGHILL,   MEMBER,   SENATE  STATE   AFFAIRS                                                                    
COMMITTEE,  explained an  amendment that  he offered  in the                                                                    
State Affairs Committee. He did  not agree with the original                                                                    
approach  in  the bill.  He  felt  that  there were  ways  a                                                                    
person's information  could be  available. He  remarked that                                                                    
there were two tasks on a  voter roll. He noted that one was                                                                    
to see  that a person was  a credible resident, but  he felt                                                                    
that  individuals  should  also   verify  that  address.  He                                                                    
remarked that  there was a  desire to  be a resident  of the                                                                    
state  for many  different  reasons. He  noticed that  other                                                                    
states  had an  address confidentiality  program, which  was                                                                    
incorporated as an  amendment into the bill.  He stated that                                                                    
it  was asked  to be  housed in  the Department  of Law.  He                                                                    
shared  that  a  person  who  had  a  protective  order  for                                                                    
domestic violence,  stalking, or sexual assault  could apply                                                                    
for  the  confidentiality  program.  He  remarked  that  the                                                                    
person  could have  a broad  confidentiality protection.  He                                                                    
understood  that  it did  not  answer  the question  of  the                                                                    
person who chose not to seek that protection.                                                                                   
Co-Chair  MacKinnon wondered  whether a  victim of  stalking                                                                    
could  simply report  the incident  to  law enforcement,  or                                                                    
whether the victim needed a court order.                                                                                        
9:13:47 AM                                                                                                                    
JORDAN SCHILLING, STAFF, SENATOR  JOHN COGHILL, replied that                                                                    
eligibility for  the program did  not require  a conviction.                                                                    
Rather, the  crime must  be reported  to a  criminal justice                                                                    
Co-Chair  MacKinnon  wondered  whether  the  victim  had  to                                                                    
reapply every  three years. Senator  Coghill replied  in the                                                                    
Co-Chair MacKinnon  stated that she served  as the executive                                                                    
director  at  Standing  Together Against  Rape  (STAR).  She                                                                    
remarked that there was an  issue of whether a victim wanted                                                                    
to  report to  an agency.  She felt  that the  reapplication                                                                    
process required a revictimization  process. She agreed that                                                                    
the intent  was to  solve one problem,  and not  the overall                                                                    
problem of  data collection. Senator Coghill  responded that                                                                    
that he agreed on the major  issue. He wanted to determine a                                                                    
way to provide safety.                                                                                                          
9:20:22 AM                                                                                                                    
Mr. Schilling looked at Section 4:                                                                                              
     Creates  the  Alaska  Address  Confidentiality  Program                                                                    
     under  the Department  of Law.  An  individual in  this                                                                    
     program   may  use   an  address   designated  by   the                                                                    
     department as  the individual's own  address, designate                                                                    
     the  department  to  receive mail,  legal  process  and                                                                    
     voter  registration or  absentee ballots  on behalf  of                                                                    
     the  individual,   and  provide  that   the  department                                                                    
     forward the  mail, legal  process, and  voter materials                                                                    
     to the individuals actual mailing address.                                                                                 
     An individual  is eligible  for this  program completes                                                                    
     an application for  this section, is a  resident of the                                                                    
     state,  and  must have  their  incident  reported to  a                                                                    
     criminal justice agency.                                                                                                   
     For application requirements, see subsection (c).                                                                          
     The program  requires: a participant be  enrolled for 3                                                                    
     years, develop  a safety plan in  consultation with the                                                                    
     department, the  department must  notify all  state and                                                                    
     municipal  agencies and  units of  government that  the                                                                    
     individual is  a participant in, may  re-enroll every 3                                                                    
9:28:06 AM                                                                                                                    
Senator  von  Imhof  surmised  that  the  program  could  be                                                                    
expensive.  Mr. Schilling  replied that  he had  not seen  a                                                                    
fiscal note,  but had some preliminary  discussions with the                                                                    
Department of  Law. He  shared that  the bill  outlined that                                                                    
the  department  may  not  charge  a fee  to  apply  for  or                                                                    
participate in the program.                                                                                                     
Senator von  Imhof stated  that it was  free to  the victim,                                                                    
but not  free to the  state. She wondered what  would happen                                                                    
if  someone in  the program  was sharing  their information.                                                                    
Mr. Schilling  replied that it  would defeat the  purpose of                                                                    
their participation in  the address confidentiality program.                                                                    
He  stated  that  some  states  include  provisions  in  the                                                                    
application. He looked at page  4, line 2, which highlighted                                                                    
the concern.                                                                                                                    
9:30:57 AM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair MacKinnon  wondered whether  the Department  of Law                                                                    
was  trained  to  develop  safety  plans  for  victims.  Mr.                                                                    
Schilling replied that there  were conversations with Alaska                                                                    
Network on  Domestic Violence, and they  generally supported                                                                    
confidentiality  programs.  He  stated   that  there  was  a                                                                    
concern about that plan.                                                                                                        
Co-Chair  MacKinnon  felt that  Department  of  Law was  not                                                                    
trained  to provide  safety  plans. She  looked  at page  3,                                                                    
lines 25  and 26. She  wondered whether there was  a concern                                                                    
about the  lack of conviction.  She noted that  the language                                                                    
required  an  acknowledgement   and  notification  of  other                                                                    
people of a  possible issue. She wondered  whether there was                                                                    
an exposure  to other problems  in the state.  Mr. Schilling                                                                    
replied  that  page 3,  line  10  described the  eligibility                                                                    
provisions. He stated that a  victim or parent/guardian of a                                                                    
minor child  who was a  victim stalking,  domestic violence,                                                                    
or sexual assault;  or a crime in  another jurisdiction with                                                                    
elements   substantially  similar   to  stalking,   domestic                                                                    
violence, or sexual assault that  was reported to a criminal                                                                    
justice  agency.  He  stated  that  the  requirement  was  a                                                                    
Co-Chair  MacKinnon  wondered  whether  the  applicant  must                                                                    
notify  their employer,  if they  work for  a state  agency.                                                                    
Mr.  Schilling   replied  that  it  was   about  whether  an                                                                    
individual worked  for a state  agency, so it  was important                                                                    
to note that to the Department of Law.                                                                                          
9:36:38 AM                                                                                                                    
ALPHEUS   BULLARD,    COUNSEL,   LEGISLATIVE    LEGAL   (via                                                                    
teleconference), introduced himself.                                                                                            
Co-Chair MacKinnon queried the  identification of a state or                                                                    
municipal employee  that there  could be an  alleged charge.                                                                    
Mr. Bullard  replied that  the intent was  to ensure  that a                                                                    
participant's actual  address was  not provided to  a person                                                                    
against whom a complaint was directed.                                                                                          
Senator von Imhof  felt that the problem  was the collecting                                                                    
and  selling of  data  available on  a  public website.  She                                                                    
wondered whether  there was a  way to  apply confidentiality                                                                    
broadly across  the state. Senator  Coghill replied  that it                                                                    
was a  problem that  should be  pondered moving  forward. He                                                                    
hoped  to fix  a  problem  for people  that  felt that  they                                                                    
needed protection for safety reasons.                                                                                           
9:41:41 AM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair MacKinnon stressed that the  P.O. box allowed for a                                                                    
stalker to wait  at the post office. She  understood that it                                                                    
was  a  complex   issue,  and  there  should   be  a  larger                                                                    
conversation about the  complexities of confidentiality with                                                                    
the internet.                                                                                                                   
9:46:59 AM                                                                                                                    
Senator Micciche  remarked that the original  bill was about                                                                    
the voter registration, but now  the bill had expanded to be                                                                    
more about witness protection. He  felt that the issue could                                                                    
not be solved in the legislative session.                                                                                       
Co-Chair  MacKinnon  noted  that  the  application  for  the                                                                    
permanent   fund  dividend   resulted  in   automatic  voter                                                                    
Senator Micciche struggled with a  reason that one would not                                                                    
have a  right to privacy.  He felt  that voter rolls  were a                                                                    
very useful tool  in research. He stressed that  there was a                                                                    
way to find someone who was  not registered to vote. He felt                                                                    
that there were now two different efforts within the bill.                                                                      
Senator Coghill thanked the chair for discussing the issue.                                                                     
9:51:52 AM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair  MacKinnon wanted  to  get the  eleven senators  in                                                                    
support of the issue.                                                                                                           
Senator von Imhof remarked that  she wanted to hear from the                                                                    
Attorney  General  and  Department  of Law  about  the  post                                                                    
office box clearing house.                                                                                                      
9:54:09 AM                                                                                                                    
CARMEN   LOWRY,  EXECUTIVE   DIRECTOR,  ALASKA   NETWORK  OF                                                                    
DOMESTIC VIOLENCE,  originally offered their support  of the                                                                    
bill,  because  a person  should  register  to vote  without                                                                    
their personal  information be shared.  She stated  that she                                                                    
was also  in support of  the amendment, and felt  that there                                                                    
should  be further  conversations  about  the Department  of                                                                    
Law's preparation  for safety planning. She  felt that there                                                                    
should be an examination of more application opportunities.                                                                     
9:56:26 AM                                                                                                                    
LYNETTE  CLARK, SELF,  FOX  (via teleconference),  announced                                                                    
that she  was a "strong constitutionalist."  She agreed that                                                                    
there should be  a bigger conversation in  order to initiate                                                                    
what was going to work.                                                                                                         
Co-Chair MacKinnon CLOSED public testimony.                                                                                     
9:58:37 AM                                                                                                                    
ED  SNIFFEN,   DEPUTY  ATTORNEY  GENERAL,   CIVIL  DIVISION,                                                                    
DEPARTMENT  OF LAW,  introduced  himself.  He discussed  the                                                                    
bill's possible impacts  to the DOL. He  remarked that there                                                                    
was an  attempt to understand  the impacts, and  whether the                                                                    
department was  a sophisticated mail forwarding  service for                                                                    
the program.  He remarked that  the bill allowed for  DOL to                                                                    
receive  and forward  mail for  those that  qualify for  the                                                                    
program. He  shared that there  were many  variables related                                                                    
to  the program.  He remarked  that there  may be  a concern                                                                    
related  to property  tax records.  He stressed  that Alaska                                                                    
was unique, and  stressed that one model for  Alaska may not                                                                    
10:08:02 AM                                                                                                                   
Senator  Stevens  expressed   concern  about  the  alternate                                                                    
address. He  wondered how  it would  be determined  that the                                                                    
voter  was  in the  correct  district.  Mr. Sniffen  replied                                                                    
there would be a designated address to track the program.                                                                       
Senator Stevens  expressed more  concern about  the election                                                                    
process  to  ensure  that  they were  voting  in  the  right                                                                    
Co-Chair   MacKinnon  replied   that  the   information  was                                                                    
available  to  election workers  when  a  person votes.  She                                                                    
stated  that  the  two  versions   of  the  bill  were  very                                                                    
10:12:09 AM                                                                                                                   
Vice-Chair Bishop  queried the anticipated target  impact in                                                                    
Co-Chair MacKinnon's version of the bill.                                                                                       
Co-Chair  MacKinnon replied  that  it was  a continuum.  She                                                                    
stated  that people  that  use data  were  concern that  all                                                                    
people would opt out of  sharing their data when registering                                                                    
to vote.                                                                                                                        
10:12:46 AM                                                                                                                   
Vice-Chair Bishop  wanted to  see an  estimate of  those who                                                                    
would use the program.                                                                                                          
Co-Chair MacKinnon  shared that there  was a huge  number of                                                                    
Alaskans who  were victims of  domestic violence  and sexual                                                                    
assault, but  did not  know if  they would  all want  to opt                                                                    
out. She  felt that the  Division of Elections  could answer                                                                    
those specific questions.                                                                                                       
Senator Micciche  felt that  voter initiatives  were further                                                                    
complicated on the election  registrations. He stressed that                                                                    
people were registered to vote upon applying for the PFD.                                                                       
Co-Chair  MacKinnon stated  that she  had voted  against the                                                                    
initiative, because there was  an unintended consequence for                                                                    
those that chose not to vote for personal reasons.                                                                              
10:17:54 AM                                                                                                                   
Senator Micciche  expressed support  for a working  group to                                                                    
discuss the issue.                                                                                                              
Senator Stevens agreed.                                                                                                         
Senator  von Imhof  wondered whether  a working  group would                                                                    
replace movement of the bill.                                                                                                   
Co-Chair MacKinnon felt that  the Judiciary Committee should                                                                    
be a part of the development and conversation.                                                                                  
Senator  von  Imhof wanted  to  take  time to  consider  the                                                                    
working group.                                                                                                                  
10:21:08 AM                                                                                                                   
Co-Chair  MacKinnon  stated  that  she  wanted  to  ask  the                                                                    
Department of Law to take a pause on the issue.                                                                                 
Vice-Chair Bishop  felt that Department  of Law was  not the                                                                    
proper place to take the program.                                                                                               
Co-Chair MacKinnon  felt that a working  group would explore                                                                    
where the program should be housed.                                                                                             
Senator  Olson appreciating  the  articulation  of the  main                                                                    
goal  of  the  legislation.  He  wanted  to  hear  the  main                                                                    
priority  of Senator  Coghill, because  he  felt that  there                                                                    
were two  different paths addressed  in the two  versions of                                                                    
the bill.                                                                                                                       
Senator Micciche  sensed that the  Department of  Law should                                                                    
cease  from doing  work. He  stressed that  this would  be a                                                                    
massive project.                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon wanted  to know who would  have access to                                                                    
the  voter list.  She  queried a  range of  a  ball park  of                                                                    
consideration of the cost of the program.                                                                                       
10:25:49 AM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
10:28:19 AM                                                                                                                   
Mr. Sniffen deferred to Mr. Spencer.                                                                                            
10:28:37 AM                                                                                                                   
DAN SPENCER,  DIRECTOR, ADMINISTRATIVE  SERVICES, DEPARTMENT                                                                    
OF  LAW, stressed  that developing  a  number would  require                                                                    
many different parts.  He felt that the cost  would begin at                                                                    
a minimum of $200,000 to  initiate the program. He explained                                                                    
that the  amendment said that  all mail would  be delivered,                                                                    
so  it   did  not  place  restrictions.   He  remarked  that                                                                    
restricting  that mail  would be  through  regulation or  an                                                                    
amendment.  He  remarked  that   there  would  still  be  no                                                                    
estimates  of   participants.  There  would  be   a  minimum                                                                    
appropriation,  but  there  would probably  be  supplemental                                                                    
Co-Chair MacKinnon wanted to establish  a working group. She                                                                    
stated  that the  issue was  about  the change  from $50  to                                                                    
$1000 for  a statewide voter  list. She asked that  the work                                                                    
on  the Department  of Law  fiscal not  cease until  further                                                                    
Senator  Olson   queried  the   reason  for   proposing  the                                                                    
10:32:19 AM                                                                                                                   
Senator Coghill  stated that he struggled  with the original                                                                    
idea  for a  "no trespassing  sign for  any cause."  He felt                                                                    
that his version  was a more narrow  and protective solution                                                                    
to confidentiality.  He remarked  that he  did not  have the                                                                    
time for  the due diligence  to find a solution,  because he                                                                    
struggled with the  bill. He remarked that there  could be a                                                                    
creation of more problems.                                                                                                      
10:36:40 AM                                                                                                                   
Co-Chair MacKinnon wanted all  senators to support the idea,                                                                    
but she  understood that it  could not be fully  solved. She                                                                    
stressed  that the  fee schedule  changed  in the  committee                                                                    
Senator John Coghill agreed to the dialog at the table.                                                                         
Co-Chair MacKinnon  remarked that the lowest  bar would only                                                                    
limit  access to  the voter  database.  She understood  that                                                                    
data was  available for sale through  various platforms. She                                                                    
stressed  that the  original intent  was to  encourage voter                                                                    
participation.  She stressed  that the  original intent  did                                                                    
not solve privacy issues.                                                                                                       
10:42:13 AM                                                                                                                   
Senator Coghill announced that there  could be a requirement                                                                    
every time  that someone changed address.  He struggled with                                                                    
"any cause", so  he asked for a higher bar.  He was open for                                                                    
a bigger conversation.                                                                                                          
Senator  Stevens hoped  to  hear from  the  director of  the                                                                    
Division of Elections.                                                                                                          
Co-Chair MacKinnon  announced that there  were conversations                                                                    
with the Division  of Elections. The consensus  was that the                                                                    
efforts were doable.                                                                                                            
Co-Chair  MacKinnon  wanted  comment  about  safeguards  and                                                                    
fraud. She stated that a  committee substitute would include                                                                    
a process to review the safeguards.                                                                                             
Vice-Chair  Bishop  stated that  he  would  like to  have  a                                                                    
conversation   with  Department   of  Labor   and  Workforce                                                                    
Development (DLWD).                                                                                                             
10:46:41 AM                                                                                                                   
Co-Chair  MacKinnon  stated that  there  would  be the  same                                                                    
access between state and local governments.                                                                                     
Co-Chair MacKinnon stressed that the  intent of the bill was                                                                    
to protect  the voters' rights,  and to stop the  selling of                                                                    
the voter registration data.                                                                                                    
Senator  Coghill   stated  that  both  addresses   would  be                                                                    
removed, but  the precinct would  be included. He  felt that                                                                    
anyone could cross reference those items.                                                                                       
Co-Chair MacKinnon  stressed that the stalker  could go into                                                                    
a neighborhood with the alternate address.                                                                                      
10:51:31 AM                                                                                                                   
Co-Chair  MacKinnon stated  that the  afternoon meeting  was                                                                    
cancelled. She discussed the following day's agenda.                                                                            
SB  192  was  HEARD  and   HELD  in  committee  for  further                                                                    
SENATE BILL NO. 154                                                                                                           
     "An Act relating to contributions from permanent fund                                                                      
     dividends to the general fund."                                                                                            
SB 154 was SCHEDULED but not HEARD.                                                                                             
10:52:18 AM                                                                                                                   
The meeting was adjourned at 10:52 a.m.                                                                                         

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
SB 192 Sectional Analysis ver. J.pdf SFIN 3/28/2018 9:00:00 AM
SB 192
SB 192 Sponsor Statement ver J.pdf SFIN 3/28/2018 9:00:00 AM
SB 192