Legislature(2017 - 2018)SENATE FINANCE 532

02/28/2018 09:00 AM FINANCE

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ HB 321 APPROP: SUPPLEMENTAL OP.; FUND; AMENDING TELECONFERENCED
<Pending Referral>
<Bill Hearing Canceled>
+= SB 104 EDUCATION CURRICULUM TELECONFERENCED
<Bill Hearing Canceled>
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled: TELECONFERENCED
+= HB 120 DEPT OF LAW: ADVOCACY BEFORE FERC TELECONFERENCED
Moved HB 120 Out of Committee
+= SB 165 COMPREHENSIVE HEALTH INSURANCE FUND TELECONFERENCED
Moved SB 165 Out of Committee
+= SB 15 E-CIGS: SALE TO AND POSSESSION BY MINOR TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSSB 15(FIN) Out of Committee
                 SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                     February 28, 2018                                                                                          
                         9:08 a.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:08:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  MacKinnon  called  the  Senate  Finance  Committee                                                                    
meeting to order at 9:08 a.m.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Lyman Hoffman, Co-Chair                                                                                                 
Senator Anna MacKinnon, Co-Chair                                                                                                
Senator Click Bishop, Vice-Chair                                                                                                
Senator Peter Micciche                                                                                                          
Senator Donny Olson                                                                                                             
Senator Gary Stevens                                                                                                            
Senator Natasha von Imhof                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
None                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
John  Ptacin, Chief  Assistant Attorney  General, Regulatory                                                                    
Affairs  and Public  Advocacy, Department  of Law;  Brittany                                                                    
Hartmann,  Staff, Senator  Anna MacKinnon;  Lori Wing-Heier,                                                                    
Director,  Division of  Insurance,  Department of  Commerce,                                                                    
Community  and  Economic  Development;  Tim  Lamkin,  Staff,                                                                    
Senator  Gary  Stevens;  Juli  Lucky,  Staff,  Senator  Anna                                                                    
MacKinnon.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SB 15     E-CIGS: SALE TO AND POSSESSION BY MINOR                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
          CSSB 15(FIN) was REPORTED out  of committee with a                                                                    
          "do pass" recommendation and  with a new Statement                                                                    
          of  Zero  Fiscal  Impact  by  the  Office  of  the                                                                    
          Governor for  the Department of Health  and Social                                                                    
          Services,  the Department  of Law,  and Department                                                                    
          of  Public Safety;  and a  new fiscal  impact note                                                                    
          from   Department  of   Commerce,  Community   and                                                                    
          Economic Development.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SB 165    COMPREHENSIVE HEALTH INSURANCE FUND                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
          SB 165  was REPORTED out  of committee with  a "do                                                                    
          pass"  recommendation  and   with  two  previously                                                                    
          published  zero   fiscal  notes:  FN   1(ADM),  FN                                                                    
          2(CED).                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
HB 120    DEPT OF LAW: ADVOCACY BEFORE FERC                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
          HB 120 was REPORTED out of committee with a "do                                                                       
          pass" recommendation and with one new zero fiscal                                                                     
          note from the Department of Law.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 120                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act relating to the Department of Law public                                                                           
     advocacy function to participate in matters that come                                                                      
     before the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:09:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon  directed attention to HB  120, which had                                                                    
been heard  in committee on  Monday, February 26,  2018. She                                                                    
relayed that the  public hearing had been  opened and closed                                                                    
and there  had been  no testimony. Additionally,  the fiscal                                                                    
note had been reviewed. She  noted that Senator Micciche had                                                                    
indicated  he   believed  the  fiscal  note   should  remain                                                                    
indeterminate. She  invited the  Department of Law  (DOL) to                                                                    
the table.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Stevens asked about the  cost of outside counsel for                                                                    
the past several years.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  PTACIN, CHIEF  ASSISTANT ATTORNEY  GENERAL, REGULATORY                                                                    
AFFAIRS  AND PUBLIC  ADVOCACY,  DEPARTMENT  OF LAW,  replied                                                                    
that he  had obtained  the outside  counsel fees  on Federal                                                                    
Energy  Regulatory Commission  (FERC) matters  for the  past                                                                    
five years. The  fees had been $613,000  in 2013, $1,050,000                                                                    
in 2014  (the "SR" case  had been  heating up at  the time),                                                                    
$39,000 in 2015  (the SR case had ended),  $195,000 in 2016,                                                                    
and $215,000 in 2017.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Bishop asked  for verification  that "SR"  meant                                                                    
strategic  reconfiguration on  Trans-Alaska Pipeline  System                                                                    
(TAPS).                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ptacin  replied in the  affirmative. He detailed  it had                                                                    
been  a large  case where  DOL had  looked at  a large-scale                                                                    
project on  the pipeline and  sought to get the  costs taken                                                                    
out of rates.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Bishop  MOVED to REPORT  HB 120 out  of Committee                                                                    
with individual recommendations  and the accompanying fiscal                                                                    
note. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HB  120 was  REPORTED  out  of committee  with  a "do  pass"                                                                    
recommendation and  with one new  zero fiscal note  from the                                                                    
Department of Law.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:12:31 AM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:16:07 AM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 165                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act relating to the Alaska comprehensive health                                                                        
     insurance fund; and providing for an effective date."                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:16:07 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon  directed attention  to SB 165.  The bill                                                                    
was  heard the  previous day;  the public  hearing had  been                                                                    
opened  and   closed  and  there  had   been  no  testimony.                                                                    
Additionally, the fiscal  note had been reviewed.  She had a                                                                    
question  on  the  fiscal note  regarding  a  discussion  on                                                                    
diverting  $60 million  to the  General Fund.  She explained                                                                    
that  the  fiscal  note  did  not  reflect  the  information                                                                    
because if the  bill was not passed,  the insurance premiums                                                                    
would be  redirected to  the General  Fund already.  She had                                                                    
asked her  staff where the  $322 million coming in  from the                                                                    
federal government was. She would  continue to work with the                                                                    
department  to accurately  reflect  for the  public why  the                                                                    
action  was  taking  place.  She added  there  had  been  no                                                                    
indication of amendments.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
BRITTANY HARTMANN,  STAFF, SENATOR ANNA  MACKINNON, reviewed                                                                    
the bill.  She detailed the  review would extend  the sunset                                                                    
of  the Alaska  Comprehensive Health  Insurance Fund  for an                                                                    
additional six  years from June  30, 2018 to June  30, 2024.                                                                    
The  extension  was  meant  to  continue  to  stabilize  the                                                                    
individual healthcare  market in  Alaska and to  comply with                                                                    
the federal award with the 1332 waiver.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
LORI   WING-HEIER,   DIRECTOR,    DIVISION   OF   INSURANCE,                                                                    
DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE,  COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT,                                                                    
added her  sincere thanks for  the support the  division had                                                                    
received from the legislature. She  relayed the bill meant a                                                                    
great  deal to  many  Alaskans. The  division supported  the                                                                    
effort. She understood the decision  had not been easy in FY                                                                    
16  and she  hoped the  waiver had  provided the  additional                                                                    
funding to continue the program.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Bishop  MOVED to REPORT  SB 165 out  of Committee                                                                    
with individual recommendations  and the accompanying fiscal                                                                    
notes. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SB  165 was  REPORTED  out  of committee  with  a "do  pass"                                                                    
recommendation  and  with   two  previously  published  zero                                                                    
fiscal notes: FN1 (ADM), FN2 (CED).                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:19:36 AM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:22:07 AM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 15                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An  Act  relating  to   possession  of  an  electronic                                                                    
     smoking product  or a product containing  nicotine by a                                                                    
     minor and  to selling  or giving an  electronic smoking                                                                    
     product  to  a  minor;  relating  to  business  license                                                                    
     endorsements  to  sell   cigarettes,  cigars,  tobacco,                                                                    
     products   containing   tobacco,   electronic   smoking                                                                    
     products,   or   products  containing   nicotine;   and                                                                    
     relating to  citations for certain  offenses concerning                                                                    
     tobacco or nicotine products."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:22:07 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon  reviewed the  bill title and  noted that                                                                    
Senator Stevens  was the bill  sponsor. She asked if  he had                                                                    
comments for the committee.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GARY  STEVENS, SPONSOR  stated  that  the bill  was                                                                    
about protecting  Alaska's youth  from becoming  addicted to                                                                    
nicotine and  adopting unhealthy habits.  He noted it  was a                                                                    
concern nationwide and  a major problem in  Alaska. The bill                                                                    
was  about  restricting  sales  to  and  possession  of  the                                                                    
products by  youth. Additionally, the bill  would give state                                                                    
agencies the authority to enforce  restrictions. He spoke to                                                                    
the importance  of acting quickly  to face the  new industry                                                                    
and  to help  protect the  state's children  who were  being                                                                    
targeted.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  MacKinnon reviewed  that the  committee had  heard                                                                    
the bill on February 16  and had heard public testimony. She                                                                    
announced she would reopen the public hearing.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon OPENED and CLOSED public testimony.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Stevens  MOVED to  ADOPT Amendment  1, 30-LS0170\N.3                                                                    
(Bruce/Martin, 2/26/18) (copy on file):                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 12, line 28:                                                                                                          
     Delete "11.76.109(a)(3)"                                                                                                   
     Insert "11.76.109(a)(4)"                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Page 13, line 6:                                                                                                           
     Delete "AS 11.76.900"                                                                                                      
     Insert "AS 11.8l.900(b)"                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:24:22 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TIM  LAMKIN, STAFF,  SENATOR  GARY  STEVENS, explained  that                                                                    
Amendment  1 was  a simple  technical  amendment. There  had                                                                    
been  several drafting  errors  in the  bill  that had  been                                                                    
overlooked as  it had gone through  the committee substitute                                                                    
process (CS). He referenced the  first part of the amendment                                                                    
and explained that AS 11.76.109(a)(3)  and (a)(4) pointed to                                                                    
the wrong  section. The amendment was  conforming. Likewise,                                                                    
the statute in  the second portion of the  amendment did not                                                                    
exist.  The amendment  would insert  the correct  section of                                                                    
law that addressed the definition of e-cigarettes.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon  WITHDREW her  OBJECTION. There  being NO                                                                    
further OBJECTION, Amendment 1 was ADOPTED.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Stevens MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 2, 30-LS0170\N.2                                                                       
(Martin, 2/23/18) (copy on file):                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, following line 20:                                                                                                 
     Insert a new bill section to read:                                                                                         
     "* Sec. 3. AS 1l.76.106(a) is amended to read:                                                                             
     (a)  Except as  provided under (b)  of this  section, a                                                                    
     person  may  not   sell  cigarettes,  cigars,  tobacco,                                                                    
     products [OR A  PRODUCT] containing tobacco, electronic                                                                    
     smoking  products,  or   products  containing  nicotine                                                                    
     unless the  sale occurs  in a  manner that  allows only                                                                    
     the sales  clerk to control  access to  the cigarettes,                                                                    
     cigars,  tobacco,  products   [OR  PRODUCT]  containing                                                                    
     tobacco,  electronic  smoking   products,  or  products                                                                    
     containing nicotine.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 27:                                                                                                           
     Delete "or"                                                                                                                
     Insert "[OR]"                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 31, following "older":                                                                                        
     Insert "; or                                                                                                               
     {4)  is   of  electronic  smoking  products   over  the                                                                    
     Internet to a person 19 years of age or older"                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Page 13, line 19, following "Act,":                                                                                        
     Insert "AS 11.76.l06(a),  as amended by sec.  3 of this                                                                    
     Act,"                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Page 13, line 20:                                                                                                          
     Delete "sec. 3"                                                                                                            
     Insert "sec. 4"                                                                                                            
     Delete "sec. 4"                                                                                                            
     Insert "sec. 5"                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Page 13, line 21:                                                                                                          
     Delete "sec. 5"                                                                                                            
     Insert "sec. 6"                                                                                                            
     Delete "sec. 6"                                                                                                            
     Insert "sec. 7" 13                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 13, line 22:                                                                                                          
     Delete "sec. 7"                                                                                                            
     Insert "sec. 8" 17                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 13, line 23:                                                                                                          
     Delete "sec. 8"                                                                                                            
     Insert "sec. 9"                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Lamkin  explained   Amendment   2,   which  was   more                                                                    
substantive   than  Amendment   1.  He   detailed  that   AS                                                                    
1l.76.106(a) was commonly known  as the "behind the counter"                                                                    
law. He  elaborated that tobacco and  nicotine products were                                                                    
required to  be placed behind  the counter and sales  of the                                                                    
products had to  be under the direct supervision  of a sales                                                                    
clerk.  For example,  Fred Meyer  shoppers  had to  go to  a                                                                    
specific counter to purchase  cigarettes and tobacco related                                                                    
products and were required  to present their identification.                                                                    
The  law was  originally  targeted to  prevent vendors  from                                                                    
situating  the products  in locations  that could  be easily                                                                    
accessed  and  would attract  the  attention  of youth.  For                                                                    
example,  products could  be placed  in the  candy or  snack                                                                    
aisle  (or toy  section).  Additionally, the  law served  to                                                                    
prevent or eliminate the possibility of the products.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Lamkin  relayed that in  the Senate  Judiciary Committee                                                                    
there had  been concern  the particular  section of  the law                                                                    
would prevent adult sales of  the products over the internet                                                                    
because there  was not a person  immediately supervising the                                                                    
sale  or transaction.  He elaborated  that due  to confusion                                                                    
and misunderstanding,  the sponsor  had removed  the section                                                                    
of the bill  at that time. He explained  that while removing                                                                    
the section  clarified adult sales  could be  conducted over                                                                    
the  internet,  it  would  also allow  stores  to  place  e-                                                                    
cigarettes  in aisles  where they  may not  be appropriately                                                                    
located. The amendment would restore the prior language.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Lamkin detailed there were  exceptions to the particular                                                                    
law. He cited a bar vending  machine as an example where the                                                                    
transaction did not  have to be under  direct supervision or                                                                    
require a sales  clerk. The bottom of the  amendment made an                                                                    
exception for internet sales provided  the buyer was over 19                                                                    
years of age.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon  WITHDREW her  OBJECTION. There  being NO                                                                    
further OBJECTION, Amendment 2 was ADOPTED.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:28:18 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Micciche  MOVED to ADOPT Amendment  3, 30-LSO170\N.1                                                                    
(Martin, 2/16/18) (copy on file):                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 7, line 10:                                                                                                           
     Delete "$1,000"                                                                                                            
     Insert "$500"                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Page 7, line 25:                                                                                                           
     Delete "indefinitely [ONE YEAR]"                                                                                           
     Insert "one year"                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Micciche  stated that he  had spoken to  the sponsor                                                                    
about  the  amendment  and   believed  Senator  Stevens  was                                                                    
supportive.  He thought  a  penalty of  $1,000  for a  first                                                                    
offense  was too  severe. He  believed a  $500 penalty  left                                                                    
room for a  person to make a mistake. He  noted the existing                                                                    
penalty was  $300. He explained  that sometimes a  new store                                                                    
employee  could make  the mistake  of  not getting  adequate                                                                    
identification. He did  not change the other  numbers in the                                                                    
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Micciche  also believed  the word  "indefinitely" on                                                                    
page  7,  line  25  would   mean  the  end  of  a  business,                                                                    
particularly a vape business. He  reasoned that one year was                                                                    
likely very difficult [for a  business] to survive from, but                                                                    
the amendment would mean the loss  of a license for one year                                                                    
for a fourth and future offense.  He stated that a fourth or                                                                    
fifth offense  would constitute  the loss  of a  license for                                                                    
another  year. He  believed a  person  could probably  argue                                                                    
that   vaping  was   better   for   someone's  health   than                                                                    
traditional  tobacco  simply  because  it  did  not  involve                                                                    
burning  plant matter.  He furthered  that  vape shops  were                                                                    
more  likely  to  be closed  indefinitely  with  a  one-year                                                                    
closure. He believed one year was an adequate penalty.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Stevens supported the amendment.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon  WITHDREW her  OBJECTION. There  being NO                                                                    
further OBJECTION, Amendment 3 was ADOPTED.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JULI  LUCKY, STAFF,  SENATOR ANNA  MACKINNON, addressed  the                                                                    
committee's first  Statement of Zero Fiscal  Impact. She had                                                                    
been working  with the executive branch  and the Legislative                                                                    
Finance Division  (LFD) to develop  a more efficient  way to                                                                    
deal with  zero fiscal notes.  She explained that SB  15 had                                                                    
been accompanied by  four fiscal notes, three  of which were                                                                    
zero notes and  had been consolidated into  the Statement of                                                                    
Zero Fiscal Impact.  The hope was to make it  easier for the                                                                    
public  and  committee members  to  easily  see all  of  the                                                                    
departments impacted by  a bill, but that did  not incur any                                                                    
fiscal impact. She  highlighted that the one  piece of paper                                                                    
replaced six sheets of paper.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lucky  pointed out that  the bill had one  fiscal impact                                                                    
note  from   the  Department  of  Commerce,   Community  and                                                                    
Economic  Development  for  the  Division  of  Corporations,                                                                    
Business  and Professional  Licensing.  There  was a  fiscal                                                                    
impact of $5,600 in FY 19.  She directed attention to page 2                                                                    
of the analysis and read:                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     This  legislation requires  changes to  warning signage                                                                    
     and the department must make  available to a person who                                                                    
     holds a business license  endorsement. It also requires                                                                    
     a  change to  the CBPL  database warning  signs, forms,                                                                    
     online   filing,   websites,  investigations,   and   a                                                                    
     regulation  change.  The committee  substitute  changes                                                                    
     the  required notice  from two  separate  signs to  one                                                                    
     combined   sign  and   changes  the   required  minimum                                                                    
     dimensions  of  those signs.  If  the  bill passes  the                                                                    
     following expenses  will be incurred:  services, $3,000                                                                    
     in  legal costs  to  amend  regulations, printing,  and                                                                    
     postage in the  first year; $1,000 for  IT services for                                                                    
     the system change; and $1,600  for printing and postage                                                                    
     to mail new signage.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lucky continued  that the analysis included  a note that                                                                    
legal  and hearing  service expenses  would  be incurred  in                                                                    
outyears, but  the costs  were unknown.  The costs  would be                                                                    
covered by receipt  supported services (undesignated general                                                                    
fund code 1005).                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:33:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Bishop  MOVED  to report  CSSB  15(FIN)  out  of                                                                    
Committee   with   individual    recommendations   and   the                                                                    
accompanying fiscal notes. There  being NO OBJECTION, it was                                                                    
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CSSB 15(FIN) was REPORTED out  of committee with a "do pass"                                                                    
recommendation  and  with a  new  Statement  of Zero  Fiscal                                                                    
Impact by the  Office of the Governor for  the Department of                                                                    
Health  and  Social Services,  the  Department  of Law,  and                                                                    
Department of Public Safety; and a new fiscal impact note                                                                       
from Department of Commerce, Community and Economic                                                                             
Development.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:34:38 AM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:36:47 AM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon  discussed the  agenda for  the following                                                                    
day. She noted that she  would reopen the public hearing for                                                                    
SB 104  the following day  in order  for the public  to have                                                                    
opportunity  to  comment  on a  forthcoming  amendment  from                                                                    
Senator von Imhof.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
9:38:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 9:37 a.m.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
SB 15 Amendment 3 Micchice.pdf SFIN 2/28/2018 9:00:00 AM
SB 15
SB 15 Amendment 1 Stevens.pdf SFIN 2/28/2018 9:00:00 AM
SB 15
SB 15 Amendment 2 Stevens.pdf SFIN 2/28/2018 9:00:00 AM
SB 15