Legislature(2015 - 2016)SENATE FINANCE 532

04/10/2015 09:00 AM FINANCE

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ HB 140 Presentation: Overview FY17 Operating Budget TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ SB 70 GAS PIPELINE RIGHT-OF-WAY;PARKS;REFUGES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled: TELECONFERENCED
+= SB 71 VACCINE CERTIFICATION FOR PHARMACISTS TELECONFERENCED
Moved SB 71 Out of Committee
                 SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                      April 10, 2015                                                                                            
                         9:04 a.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:04:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  MacKinnon  called  the  Senate  Finance  Committee                                                                    
meeting to order at 9:04 a.m.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Anna MacKinnon, Co-Chair                                                                                                
Senator Pete Kelly, Co-Chair                                                                                                    
Senator Peter Micciche, Vice-Chair                                                                                              
Senator Click Bishop                                                                                                            
Senator Mike Dunleavy                                                                                                           
Senator Lyman Hoffman                                                                                                           
Senator Donny Olson                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
None                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator   Cathy  Giessel,   Sponsor;  Representative   Steve                                                                    
Thompson, Sponsor;  Bill O'Leary, CEO, Alaska  Railroad; Ben                                                                    
Ellis,   Director,  Division   of   Parks  and   Recreation,                                                                    
Department  of Natural  Resources; John  Hutchins, Attorney,                                                                    
Department of Law.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Chad  Hope,  Pharmacist,  Department of  Health  and  Social                                                                    
Services,   Anchorage;   Don  Perrin,   Director,   Pipeline                                                                    
Coordination Office, Department  of Natural Resources; Frank                                                                    
Richards,  Manager of  Pipeline  Engineering and  Government                                                                    
Affairs Alaska Gasline Development Corporation.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SB 70     GAS PIPELINE RIGHT-OF-WAY;PARKS;REFUGES                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
          SB 70 was HEARD and HELD in committee for further                                                                     
          consideration.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SB 71     VACCINE CERTIFICATION FOR PHARMACISTS                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
          SB 71  was REPORTED  out of  committee with  a "do                                                                    
          pass" recommendation and with  one new zero fiscal                                                                    
          note   from  Department   of  Health   and  Social                                                                    
          Services, and  a previously published  zero fiscal                                                                    
          note: FN1 (CED).                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HB 140    LEG. APPROVAL: AK RAILROAD REVENUE BONDS                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
          HB 140 was HEARD and HELD in committee for                                                                            
          further consideration.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 71                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act relating to the practice of pharmacy; and                                                                          
     relating to the administration of vaccines and related                                                                     
     emergency medications."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:05:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon read the title of the legislation.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  CATHY  GIESSEL, SPONSOR,  stated  that  she had  no                                                                    
closing  comments, and  stated that  there were  individuals                                                                    
waiting to discuss the fiscal notes.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:06:26 AM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:07:19 AM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:07:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Micciche stated  that  there was  a fiscal  note                                                                    
from Department  of Health and Social  Services (DHSS), with                                                                    
an appropriation  for Health  Care Services,  and allocation                                                                    
for Medical Assistance Administration  with an OMB component                                                                    
number of  242. He  stated that the  fiscal impact  was zero                                                                    
from FY 16 through FY 21.  There was no estimated capital or                                                                    
supplemental  costs.  The  fiscal   note  previously  had  a                                                                    
requested amount,  but DHSS determined that  it could absorb                                                                    
any anticipated operating costs within the department.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAD  HOPE,  PHARMACIST,  DEPARTMENT OF  HEALTH  AND  SOCIAL                                                                    
SERVICES,  ANCHORAGE (via  teleconference),  stated that  he                                                                    
was available for questions related to the fiscal note.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dunleavy asked  for an  explanation  of the  fiscal                                                                    
note.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:09:08 AM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:09:24 AM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dunleavy wondered  if the  fiscal note  was a  zero                                                                    
fiscal note. Co-Chair MacKinnon replied in the affirmative.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon asked why and  how the fiscal note became                                                                    
a zero fiscal note. Mr.  Hope replied that the bill required                                                                    
DHSS to  enroll pharmacists as providers,  as required under                                                                    
the Affordable  Care Act. Initially  the work  would enhance                                                                    
the  system at  approximately  $50,000, but  DHSS would  not                                                                    
incur additional money. The  department would use Children's                                                                    
Health Insurance  Program (CHIP) money to  offset additional                                                                    
costs associated with enrolling a new type of provider.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon  wondered if  there would  be anticipated                                                                    
CHIP revenue  for future years.  Mr. Hope replied  that that                                                                    
he did  not know about  the CHIP funding. He  furthered that                                                                    
the  system implementation  was  a  one-time process.  There                                                                    
would not be ongoing future enhancements to that system.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Micciche looked at the  next fiscal note from the                                                                    
Department of  Commerce, Community and  Economic Development                                                                    
(DCCED),   with   an   appropriation  and   allocation   for                                                                    
Corporations,  Business,  and  Professional  Licensing.  The                                                                    
appropriation  request was  for $2,500  in FY  16, and  zero                                                                    
request for FY 17 through FY 21.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Micciche MOVED  to REPORT SB 71  out of committee                                                                    
with individual recommendations  and the accompanying fiscal                                                                    
notes. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SB  71  was REPORTED  out  of  committee  with a  "do  pass"                                                                    
recommendation  and  with  one  new zero  fiscal  note  from                                                                    
Department of  Health and Social Services,  and a previously                                                                    
published zero fiscal note: FN 1(CED).                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:13:43 AM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:15:46 AM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 140                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act authorizing the  Alaska Railroad Corporation to                                                                    
     issue  revenue  bonds  to   finance  a  positive  train                                                                    
     control   rail  transportation   safety  project   that                                                                    
     qualifies  for  federal  financial  participation;  and                                                                    
     providing for an effective date."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:16:11 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  STEVE  THOMPSON,   SPONSOR,  introduced  the                                                                    
legislation.  He explained  that HB  140 will  authorize the                                                                    
Alaska  Railroad  Corporation  (ARRC)  to issue  up  to  $37                                                                    
million  in  tax-exempt  bonds  backed  by  Federal  Transit                                                                    
Administration  (FTA)  formula  funds received  annually  by                                                                    
ARRC. Bond proceeds  will be used to  finance Positive Train                                                                    
Control  (PTC): a  safety program  mandated  by the  federal                                                                    
government  without   any  correlating  funding,   which  is                                                                    
estimated  to cost  ARRC  approximately  $158 million.  ARRC                                                                    
proposes  to refinance  $66 million  in  existing bonds  and                                                                    
extend the  repayment date in  order to issue  an additional                                                                    
$37  million in  bonds to  pay for  a major  portion of  the                                                                    
remaining $55 million in PTC  costs. Under AS.42.40.285 ARRC                                                                    
is required to receive  legislative approval to issue bonds.                                                                    
In no event  will the general credit of the  State of Alaska                                                                    
or  ARRC  be  pledged  for the  repayment  of  these  bonds.                                                                    
AS.42.40.500 requires that all  liabilities incurred by ARRC                                                                    
shall be satisfied "exclusively"  from the assets or revenue                                                                    
of ARRC and not the State.   Debt payment for the bonds will                                                                    
come from a portion  of Federal Transit Administration (FTA)                                                                    
formula funds which are statutorily  mandated by Federal law                                                                    
and received  annually by ARRC.  Issuing debt backed  by FTA                                                                    
formula funds  is authorized through FTA  regulation and has                                                                    
already been used by ARRC  to issue bonds. PTC is technology                                                                    
designed to stop  or slow a train  before human-error causes                                                                    
an  accident to  occur.  In 2008,  the  federal Rail  Safety                                                                    
Improvement  Act required  certain  railroads  to install  a                                                                    
fully functional  PTC system by  the end of 2015;  by virtue                                                                    
of  its   passenger  service,  ARRC   is  subject   to  this                                                                    
requirement. A failure  to implement PTC will  force ARRC to                                                                    
severely curtail or eliminate  passenger service and/or face                                                                    
severe fines  for non-compliance.  Estimates  for this large                                                                    
research and development project  indicate that it will cost                                                                    
approximately $158  million to  implement. Since  1997, ARRC                                                                    
has invested $68.9 million to  develop a PTC system. In 2013                                                                    
and 2014, ARRC received an  additional $19.1 million and $15                                                                    
million respectively  from the  State of Alaska  to continue                                                                    
work  on  PTC. Between  2016  and  2018, an  additional  $55                                                                    
million  will   be  required  for   ARRC  to   complete  the                                                                    
development  and installation  of PTC  by 2018.  This figure                                                                    
does not include the estimated  $5 million to $7 million per                                                                    
year of  operating and capital maintenance  costs related to                                                                    
the system that ARRC will fund after PTC is installed.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Micciche  shared that  he was  not in  support of                                                                    
PTC, but  understood that the  state did not have  a choice.                                                                    
He expressed support for the legislation.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dunleavy appreciated the legislation.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon CLOSED public testimony.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:21:36 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman wondered how much  unutilized land was owned                                                                    
by the Alaska Railroad.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL  O'LEARY, CEO,  ALASKA RAILROAD,  explained that  there                                                                    
was roughly 36,000  acres of land owned  by the corporation.                                                                    
Approximately 18,000  acres of  that land was  used directly                                                                    
in rail  operations, such as right-of-way.  Therefore, there                                                                    
was a  remaining 18,000  acres available  for other  use. He                                                                    
recalled that  there was approximately 2600  acres that were                                                                    
under lease or permit.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  queried the future  plans of  the remaining                                                                    
15,000 acres. Mr.  O'Leary replied that there was  a hope to                                                                    
develop  the   unused  land.  There   were  some   plans  in                                                                    
Fairbanks,  Anchorage, and  Seward  with the  hopes to  move                                                                    
forward.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  wondered if the undeveloped  acres would be                                                                    
available to  create jobs to  incur investment.  Mr. O'Leary                                                                    
replied that  it was  of great  concern to  the corporation,                                                                    
and  was a  part of  the financial  picture. He  stated that                                                                    
there was a hope to utilize the railroad land.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman  queried   the  corporation's  position  on                                                                    
selling  any  of the  land.  Mr.  O'Leary replied  that  the                                                                    
corporation was  not often interested  in selling  the land,                                                                    
because the  ownership of the  land was  a key piece  in the                                                                    
financial structure.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  wondered if the corporation  would sell the                                                                    
land  upon threat  of closing  the  railroad operations,  as                                                                    
they  are  with the  PTC  federal  requirement. Mr.  O'Leary                                                                    
responded that the  corporation was not in  favor of selling                                                                    
the  land,  because  of  the possibility  of  the  need  for                                                                    
continuous revenue stream.  He felt that the  selling of the                                                                    
land would not  produce enough funds in the  short time that                                                                    
the funds were needed for the project.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman surmised  that  the  railroad would  rather                                                                    
close  down  operations, than  sell  the  land to  keep  the                                                                    
railroad operating. Mr. O'Leary disagreed.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Micciche shared that  he was supporting the bill,                                                                    
because the  state would not  have bond liability.  He asked                                                                    
for  further explanation  of the  bond. Mr.  O'Leary replied                                                                    
that the debts  to the Alaska Railroad  were not liabilities                                                                    
of the  state. There would be  no recourse to the  state for                                                                    
the bond, as was explicitly  outlined in the bond documents.                                                                    
There  was also  no recourse  to the  general credit  of the                                                                    
Alaska  Railroad.  The  only  security  for  the  bonds,  as                                                                    
proposed,  was  from   the  Federal  Transit  Administration                                                                    
formula funding.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB  140  was  HEARD  and   HELD  in  committee  for  further                                                                    
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 70                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act  relating to exceptions  from designation  as a                                                                    
     special purpose  site under  art. VIII,  sec. 7  of the                                                                    
     Constitution  of the  State of  Alaska for  portions of                                                                    
     Denali State Park, Captain  Cook State Recreation Area,                                                                    
     Nancy  Lake State  Recreation  Area,  and Willow  Creek                                                                    
     State Recreation  Area to allow leasing  a right-of-way                                                                    
     for a natural gas pipeline."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:29:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon addressed the legislation.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
BEN ELLIS, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF PARKS AND RECREATION,                                                                          
DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES, explained the legislation.                                                                     
He looked at the SB 70 Briefing Paper (copy on file):                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     SB  70 is  necessary to  open a  corridor through  four                                                                    
     state  legislatively  designated  areas  (Denali  State                                                                    
     Park  and Willow  Creek, Nancy  Lake, and  Captain Cook                                                                    
     State  Recreation Areas)  to the  right of  way leasing                                                                    
     act  for  the purpose  of  construction  a natural  gas                                                                    
     pipeline from the North Slope of Alaska.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     The bill would accomplish the following primary                                                                            
     objectives:                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
          1) Authorize the issuance of  a right of way lease                                                                    
          under AS38.35,  the Pipeline Right of  Way Leasing                                                                    
          Act for  a gas pipeline in  an identified corridor                                                                    
          through Denali State Park  and Willow Creek, Nancy                                                                    
          Lake, and Captain Cook State Recreation Areas.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
          2) Require the corridor  to be managed as parkland                                                                    
          and recreation areas until  leased under 38.35 and                                                                    
          returned  to  original  park and  recreation  area                                                                    
         management upon termination of the lease.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
          3) Provides  supplemental requirements  to reserve                                                                    
          traditional  means of  public access  and minimize                                                                    
          the impact  of a  pipeline on the  specific values                                                                    
          of park and recreation areas.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
          4)  Clarifies  the  DNR  Commissioner's  power  to                                                                    
          delegate  condemnation  authority  to  the  lessee                                                                    
          does not apply  within the bounds of  the park and                                                                    
          recreation areas.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
          5)  Requires  the  gas pipeline  lease  be  issued                                                                    
          before January 1, 2020                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Why the bill is needed:                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
          The  parks   at  issue  are  special   use  sites,                                                                    
          reserved   from   the   public   domain   by   the                                                                    
          legislature pursuant  to Article  VIII, Sec.  7 of                                                                    
          the  Alaska Constitution.  As a  result, they  are                                                                    
          not, without legislative  action, open for leasing                                                                    
          under AS 38.35.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Why this bill does not include State game refuges and                                                                      
     DNR Susitna Basin Rec Rivers:                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
          Although  some restrictions  on  multiple use  are                                                                    
          imposed  on the  state  game  refuges and  rivers,                                                                    
          these  areas are  not closed  to leasing  under AS                                                                    
          38.35 where  a lease would be  compatible with the                                                                    
          purposes of the reserves.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Does the corridor specified in the bill suffice for                                                                        
     both the ASAP and AKLNG Projects:                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
          AGDC  and  AKLNG   have  worked  cooperatively  to                                                                    
          select a common alignment  for both projects. AGDC                                                                    
          has  completed its  route revision  to the  common                                                                    
          alignment and  are now calling it  Rev. 6.1. Field                                                                    
          efforts for both projects  have changed to reflect                                                                    
          the  common alignment  as  evidenced  in the  geo-                                                                    
          technical    site   locations    currently   being                                                                    
          conducted within Denali State Park.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:35:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dunleavy  wondered  if the  proposed  parcels  were                                                                    
within  the parks,  or were  any outside  of the  parks. Mr.                                                                    
Ellis  replied that  each proposed  parcel  within the  bill                                                                    
were in  one of the four  parks mentioned. He stated  that a                                                                    
portion would go  outside of the park, but  was not included                                                                    
in the legislation.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Micciche asked  for assurance  that, other  than                                                                    
during  the  construction,  the public  use  was  previously                                                                    
permitted and  the park corridors  would not  be interrupted                                                                    
in the future. Mr. Ellis  replied that the land would remain                                                                    
park land, and available for  public use under park statutes                                                                    
during  the early  phase.  The  pipeline construction  would                                                                    
still allow some recreational usage.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Micciche  remarked  that  the  right-of-way  may                                                                    
improve recreational access.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:38:02 AM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:40:21 AM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:40:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dunleavy wondered  if it  was advisable  to require                                                                    
that the  right-of-way leases had definable  and enforceable                                                                    
obligation  for  restoration  and  revegetation.  Mr.  Ellis                                                                    
replied that the intention was  to fully return to the state                                                                    
prior to any land disturbance.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
JOHN HUTCHINS,  ATTORNEY, DEPARTMENT OF LAW,  explained that                                                                    
any  pipeline  right-of-way  leases under  the  statute  was                                                                    
required  to include  a set  of covenants  that included  an                                                                    
assurance  that  the lessee  would  restore  the land  to  a                                                                    
condition acceptable by the commissioner.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Micciche  wondered   if  the  legislation  would                                                                    
conclude the  pipeline right-of-way  needs from  Prudhoe Bay                                                                    
to  the  terminus in  Nikiski.  Mr.  Ellis deferred  to  Mr.                                                                    
Perrin.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DON   PERRIN,   DIRECTOR,  PIPELINE   COORDINATION   OFFICE,                                                                    
DEPARTMENT  OF   NATURAL  RESOURCES   (via  teleconference),                                                                    
explained that the state agencies  had been working in terms                                                                    
of  field work  permitting,  and  coordination with  federal                                                                    
agencies. He stated that the  legislation would conclude the                                                                    
right-of-way needs for the project.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:44:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  queried the percentage of  the right-of-way                                                                    
that  the  legislation  accomplished. He  also  wondered  if                                                                    
there  were further  problem areas  related to  acquisition.                                                                    
Mr. Perrin  replied that the  corridor varied in  width from                                                                    
on-half mile to  two miles. He explained that  the width was                                                                    
determined to ensure  adequate engineering and environmental                                                                    
reviews.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman remarked  that the line from  Prudhoe Bay to                                                                    
the  destination   to  tidewater.   He  wondered   how  much                                                                    
additional  right-of-way  was  needed for  the  project.  He                                                                    
queried   the   anticipated   problem   areas   related   to                                                                    
acquisition. Mr.  Perrin replied  that the bill  would allow                                                                    
for  completion of  land  as need  for  the right-of-way  on                                                                    
state  land. He  noted that  the act  only applied  to state                                                                    
land, and the legislation would allow for completion.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman queried the  percentage of additional leases                                                                    
that was required for all right-of-way.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
FRANK   RICHARDS,  MANAGER   OF  PIPELINE   ENGINEERING  AND                                                                    
GOVERNMENT  AFFAIRS ALASKA  GASLINE DEVELOPMENT  CORPORATION                                                                    
(via  teleconference),  asked  for   a  restatement  of  the                                                                    
question.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator   Hoffman  wondered   how   much  right-of-way   was                                                                    
currently acquired and  how much was yet to  be acquired. He                                                                    
also  queried   the  possible   problem  areas   for  future                                                                    
acquisition. Mr.  Richards replied that the  legislature had                                                                    
specifically required Department  of Natural Resources (DNR)                                                                    
to  provide Alaska  Gasline  Development Corporation  (AGDC)                                                                    
the Title  38 lands  through a  state right-of-way  in 2011,                                                                    
which  represented approximately  55 percent  of the  Alaska                                                                    
Stand Alone  Pipeline (ASAP)  right-of-way. The  addition of                                                                    
the lands  from the  legislation gave access  through Denali                                                                    
State Park, Willow Creek, and  Nancy Lakes. That mileage was                                                                    
approximately  another   5  percent  of  state   lands.  The                                                                    
completion   of   the  supplemental   environmental   impact                                                                    
statement (EIS) would show an  outcome of record of decision                                                                    
by the Department of the  Interior Bureau of Land Management                                                                    
which would provide the federal  right-of-way, at 30 percent                                                                    
right-of-way.   The  project   would  be   approximately  90                                                                    
percent,  with  the  remaining   10  percent  in  municipal,                                                                    
borough,  private  land  ownership, and  native  corporation                                                                    
allotments still yet to be acquired.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:49:21 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  wondered if there were  anticipated problem                                                                    
areas  that  would  require  eminent  domain.  Mr.  Richards                                                                    
replied that there  were very little, if any  use of eminent                                                                    
domain. He  explained that the legislature  allowed AGDC the                                                                    
use  of  eminent  domain  through   HB  4  and  in  existing                                                                    
statutes.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman restated  his  question as  related to  the                                                                    
AKLNG  project. Mr.  Richards responded  that the  AKLNG and                                                                    
ASAP currently  shared a  common route  from Prudhoe  Bay to                                                                    
the Susitna River  Bridge. At that point,  ASAP traversed to                                                                    
the east of the river, and  the AKLNG headed west toward the                                                                    
Cook Inlet  Crossing. He agreed  to provide  information for                                                                    
the actual land ownership requirements for AKLNG.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman  queried  the   timeframe  to  acquire  the                                                                    
required  additional  lands  for project  construction.  Mr.                                                                    
Richards replied that the private  and municipal owned lands                                                                    
would not be determined  until the final investment decision                                                                    
to advance the project.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  MacKinnon wondered  if there  were any  additional                                                                    
comments on  SB 70.  Mr. Richards replied  that SB  70 would                                                                    
allow either  pipeline project to  proceed through  the park                                                                    
lands. The  original intent of the  legislature provided the                                                                    
right-of-way  across state  lands, so  the bill  allowed for                                                                    
the land to advance the pipeline project.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bishop  queried the  difference on  the right-of-way                                                                    
for the two  projects. He understood that the  AKLNG was 180                                                                    
feet,  and the  ASAP was  120 feet.  Mr. Richards  responded                                                                    
that he did  not have the specifics for  AKLNG. He explained                                                                    
that moving  a large  diameter pipe  required areas  to work                                                                    
and  dispose.  He stated  that  there  was likely  different                                                                    
equipment for the different sized pipe.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon  wondered if  the corridor  would require                                                                    
the removal  of trees  for an extended  period of  time. Mr.                                                                    
Ellis  replied  that the  land  would  return to  a  natural                                                                    
state. He stated that there was  normally a five to ten year                                                                    
period of time that would allow for full revegetation.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon CLOSED public testimony.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:54:50 AM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:56:21 AM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Micciche wondered  what  the right-of-way  would                                                                    
look  like at  post-construction. Mr.  Ellis responded  that                                                                    
that corridor would  be clear for construction.  The 50 foot                                                                    
right-of-way  for the  pipeline  would be  clear. He  stated                                                                    
that there  may be  a recreational  trail near  the pipeline                                                                    
that would also provide access to the line.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SB  70  was   HEARD  and  HELD  in   committee  for  further                                                                    
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
9:58:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 9:58 a.m.                                                                                          

Document Name Date/Time Subjects