Legislature(1993 - 1994)

02/17/1994 09:15 AM FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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                             MINUTES                                           
                    SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                   
                        February 17, 1994                                      
                            9:15 a.m.                                          
                                                                               
  TAPES                                                                        
                                                                               
  SFC-94, #27, Side 1 (000-end)                                                
  SFC-94, #27, Side 2 (end-120)                                                
                                                                               
  CALL TO ORDER                                                                
                                                                               
  Senator Drue  Pearce,  Co-chair,  convened  the  meeting  at                 
  approximately 9:15 a.m.                                                      
                                                                               
  PRESENT                                                                      
                                                                               
  In addition to  Co-chairs Pearce and Frank,  Senators Kelly,                 
  Rieger, and Kerttula  were present.  Senators Sharp and Jack                 
  were absent.                                                                 
                                                                               
  ALSO  ATTENDING:    Representative  Harley  Olberg;  Annette                 
  Kreitzer,  aide to  Senator Leman,  sponsor of SB  33; Ervin                 
  Paul   Martin,  Director,   Alaska  Division   of  Emergency                 
  Services,  Department of  Military  & Veteran  Affairs; Mike                 
  Conway, Director,  Division of Spill Prevention  & Response,                 
  Department  of  Environmental  Conservation; James  Studley,                 
  Vice  Chairman,  LEPC  Association,  Haines;  Randy  Welker,                 
  Legislative  Auditor,  Legislative Audit  Division; Virginia                 
  Stonkus,   fiscal  analyst,   and  Mike   Greany,  Director,                 
  Legislative Finance Division; aides to committee members and                 
  other members of the legislature.                                            
                                                                               
  SUMMARY INFORMATION                                                          
                                                                               
  CSSB 33(STA):  An  Act  relating to  emergency  planning and                 
                 response;    transferring    the    Hazardous                 
                 Substance Spill Technology Review  Council to                 
                 the Department of Environmental Conservation;                 
                 transferring  the   Alaska  State   Emergency                 
                 Response  Commission,  including its  duty to                 
                 designate local emergency  planning districts                 
                 and   appoint   local    emergency   planning                 
                 committees, to the Department of Military and                 
                 Veterans'   Affairs;   and    eliminating   a                 
                 requirement that  the state and  regional oil                 
                 discharge prevention and contingency plans be                 
                 revised annually.                                             
                                                                               
                 CSSB  33(FIN) work  draft  dated 2/16/94  was                 
                 brought before the  committee for  discussion                 
                 purposes.  Annette Kreitzer, aide to  Senator                 
                 Leman,  sponsor  of  SB  33,  spoke  to  CSSB
                 33(FIN) and explained the  amendments.  Ervin                 
                 Paul  Martin,  Director,  Alaska Division  of                 
                 Emergency Services, Department of  Military &                 
                 Veteran  Affairs;   Mike  Conway,   Director,                 
                 Division  of  Spill  Prevention  &  Response,                 
                 Department of Environmental Conservation; and                 
                 James    Studley,    Vice    Chairman,   LEPC                 
                 Association,  Haines,  also  came before  the                 
                 committee and testified in support of  SB 33.                 
                 Discussion  was  had  by   the  committee  on                 
                 various  budget  issues  and positions  being                 
                 transferred   between   departments.     CSSB
                 33(FIN) was  REPORTED OUT  of committee  with                 
                 individual recommendations with a  new fiscal                 
                 note  from Senate  Finance for  Department of                 
                 Military & Veterans Affairs for $646.7, and a                 
                 fiscal   note   for    the   Department    of                 
                 Environmental Conservation for $(646.7).                      
                                                                               
  HB 372:        An Act relating to the four dam pool transfer                 
                 fund.                                                         
                                                                               
                 Co-chair Pearce voiced her preference that HB
                 372 would move  out of  committee and SB  243                 
                 would  be held.   Senator  Rieger voiced  his                 
                 concern   over   passing   HB   372   without                 
                 correcting the problems  in the  legislation.                 
                 Co-chairs Pearce and Frank concurred.  HB 372                 
                 was REPORTED OUT of committee with individual                 
                 recommendations and  a zero  fiscal note  for                 
                 the Dept. of Community & Regional Affairs.                    
                                                                               
  SB 243:        An Act relating to the four dam pool transfer                 
                 fund.                                                         
                                                                               
                 SB 243 was  scheduled but not heard.   It was                 
                 HELD in committee.                                            
                                                                               
                                                                               
  CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 33(STA):                                              
                                                                               
       An  Act relating  to emergency  planning and  response;                 
       transferring the Hazardous  Substance Spill  Technology                 
       Review  Council  to  the  Department  of  Environmental                 
       Conservation; transferring the  Alaska State  Emergency                 
       Response Commission,  including its  duty to  designate                 
       local emergency  planning districts  and appoint  local                 
       emergency  planning committees,  to  the Department  of                 
       Military  and  Veterans'  Affairs;  and  eliminating  a                 
       requirement that  the state and  regional oil discharge                 
       prevention and contingency plans be revised annually.                   
                                                                               
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR PEARCE announced  that the work draft  CSSB 33(FIN)                 
  dated  2/16/94  was before  the  committee.   CO-CHAIR FRANK                 
  MOVED  that the  work  draft  CSSB  33(FIN) be  adopted  for                 
  discussion  purposes.    Hearing  no  objection, IT  WAS  SO                 
  ORDERED.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Co-chair Pearce  invited Annette  Kreitzer, aide to  Senator                 
  Leman, sponsor of  SB 33, to  come before the committee  and                 
  explain the changes incorporated in CSSB 33(FIN).                            
                                                                               
  ANNETTE KREITZER said that she would make the explanation as                 
  clear as  possible.  Section  1 was  part of  the five  page                 
  amendment  that  was  presented  to  the  committee  on  the                 
  February 3rd  Senate Finance Meeting.   It cleaned  up DM&VA                 
  statutes  removing  references  to  disaster agencies  which                 
  never had  been established  and the  department felt  never                 
  would be established.  Section 2 and 3 were also included in                 
  the amendment dealing with disaster agencies.                                
                                                                               
  Ms. Kreitzer stated that page 3,  line 11, was the beginning                 
  of the original bill.  Section  4 was the previous Section 2                 
  (not new material).   Section 5 was the previous  Section 3,                 
  and Section  6 was previous Section 4.   Section 7 on page 4                 
  was part  of the  original amendment  that removes  disaster                 
  agencies and  clarified language  in reference  to political                 
  subdivision, municipalities and  boroughs.  Section 8  and 9                 
  were  also  part   of  the   amendment.    AS   26.23.060(f)                 
  (originally  between  Sections  9 and  10)  that  dealt with                 
  disaster agencies had been repealed.  Section 10 was the old                 
  Section 5.   Section 11 was the  old Section 6.   Section 12                 
  was  the old Section 7.  In Section 12 there was a change on                 
  page 6, lines 18-20, broadening the language.  Anchorage and                 
  Fairbanks had expressed  their concern that the  Governor be                 
  able  to  appoint  either  a   mayor,  assembly  person,  or                 
  emergency  manager to  the SERC,  not  restricting it  to an                 
  assembly or city council person.                                             
                                                                               
  On page  8, line 25, lines  29 and 30, the  words "governing                 
  body" were deleted  from in front of  political subdivision.                 
  It  was   felt  it  would  help  insure  local  control  for                 
  nomination   of   people   for  local   emergency   planning                 
  committees.  Everything  remained the  same in CSSB  33(FIN)                 
  until  page 12.    Section 13  removed  reference to  inter-                 
  jurisdictional  disaster agencies  because there  were none.                 
  Section 14 was the  old Section 8.  On page  13, Sections 15                 
  and 16,  were also  both parts  of that  original amendment.                 
  Section 17  was the old Section 10.   Section 18 was the old                 
  Section 11.  Section 19 was the  old Section 12.  Section 20                 
  was the old  Section 13.  Section 21 was the old Section 14.                 
  Section 22  was the old Section 15.   Section 23 was the old                 
  Section 16.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Page 17, lines  15 and 16, dealt  with the "470" fund.   She                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  indicated that work was being done with Senator Miller on SB
  215  to ensure  that the  language aligned  between the  two                 
  bills.  She pointed  out that the  "470 fund" would only  be                 
  able to be used  for SERC activities and staff  support when                 
  those  activities  and staff  were  doing oil  and hazardous                 
  substance related things.                                                    
                                                                               
  Again, the section number changed as follows: Section 24 was                 
  the  old  Section 17,  Section 25  was  the old  Section 18,                 
  Section 26 was  the old Section 19,  Section 27 was  the old                 
  Section 20, Section 28  was the old Section 21,  and Section                 
  29 was the old Section 22.                                                   
                                                                               
  She said  there were two changes in repealers that conformed                 
  with the other changes.   As aforementioned, AS 26.23.060(f)                 
  that dealt with disaster agencies  has been repealed between                 
  Sections 9 and 10,  and 26.23.195, at the request  of DM&VA,                 
  was repealed.   With that, she concluded her  explanation of                 
  CSSB 33(FIN) work draft.                                                     
                                                                               
  SENATOR KERTTULA asked if a positive response  had been made                 
  to  the  Prince  William Sound  Regional  Citizens' Advisory                 
  Council (RCAC) and if  that organization had had much  input                 
  regarding this legislation.  Ms. Kreitzer said that when the                 
  RCAC had testified  at the last  Senate Finance meeting  she                 
  felt there was some confusion as to what SB 33 would do.  In                 
  answer  to Senator Kerttula,  Ms. Kreitzer said  she did not                 
  know if the  confusion had been  cleared up but pointed  out                 
  that  SB  33  did  not  remove financial  responsibility  as                 
  thought by RCAC.  She testified  of the support by statewide                 
  emergency planning  committees and that the  State Emergency                 
  Response Commission had voted unanimously with the exception                 
  of one  person in  support of  SB 33.   Discussion  followed                 
  between  Senator Kerttula and Ms. Kreitzer regarding certain                 
  individuals and their positions.                                             
                                                                               
  Co-chair Pearce invited Ervin Paul Martin,  Director, Alaska                 
  Division  of Emergency  Services, Department  of Military  &                 
  Veteran Affairs  to come  before the  committee and  testify                 
  regarding SB 33.                                                             
                                                                               
  ERVIN MARTIN said that  his department was in support  of SB
  33.    He pointed  out  that  there had  been  some question                 
  regarding the  staffing needed  to perform  the function  of                 
  this bill.   Other than  the three positions  that would  be                 
  transferred to Department  of Environmental Conservation  to                 
  support  the   Commission,  two   planners  had   also  been                 
  requested.  These two planners  would help local communities                 
  develop  and  implement their  plans.   At  the end  of five                 
  years, those  two positions would  be eliminated.   He noted                 
  that the Commission has been in effect for  four years and a                 
  plan had not been approved as yet.  Two plans were presented                 
  yesterday but  he reiterated that  it was  critical for  the                 
  Department, if it was to perform a credible service, to have                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  the necessary resources to perform the function.                             
                                                                               
  Senator Kerttula requested Mr. Martin to provide  him with a                 
  written copy of his testimony.                                               
                                                                               
  Co-chair Frank  admitted he  was not  really well  versed in                 
  this  but  from  a fiscal  position,  he  understood that  a                 
  responsibility  was  being  transferred from  one  agency to                 
  another.  He felt a little  more money should be transferred                 
  from  DEC  rather than  using  funds from  the  general fund                 
  because it made sense to perform a transfer and not increase                 
  the  budget.    Senator  Kerttula  concurred  with  Co-chair                 
  Frank's comments.                                                            
                                                                               
  Discussion  followed  between  Co-chairs Frank  and  Pearce,                 
  Senators Kerttula, and Kelly regarding  the fiscal notes and                 
  the "470" fund.                                                              
                                                                               
  Co-chair Pearce  invited Mike Conway, Director,  Division of                 
  Spill  Prevention &  Response,  Department of  Environmental                 
  Conservation, to come before the committee.                                  
                                                                               
  MIKE CONWAY said that  funds had gone to the LEPC's  for the                 
  writing of the plans  from the "470" fund.   The distinction                 
  was  that  in an  all  hazards commission  the  division was                 
  picking up additional responsibilities for events other than                 
  oil and  hazardous substance  spills.  In  other words,  the                 
  transfer of the "470 fund" went to support oil and hazardous                 
  substances which was an eligible  use of the fund.  When  an                 
  "all hazards, disaster" plan was sought, it was not eligible                 
  for  the use of the "470 fund."  Senator Kerttula asked what                 
  percentage of the  costs were "470  fund."  Mr. Conway  said                 
  the three positions being transferred to DM&VA was supported                 
  from "470 funds", but the additional two planners would come                 
  from general fund moneys.                                                    
                                                                               
  Co-chair Frank said  this bill represented a transfer and an                 
  expansion of government  since now "all hazards"  were being                 
  addressed.    Mr.  Conway  concurred  and  used  the  recent                 
  California earthquake as an example of what issues would  be                 
  dealt  with  in this  legislation,  hospitals, roads,  water                 
  systems, etc.,  all outside the  realm of oil  and hazardous                 
  substances.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Co-chair Frank asked how this dovetailed with existing DM&VA                 
  plan and functions.   Mr. Martin agreed that DM&VA  did have                 
  an  existing plan  funded by  state general  fund money  and                 
  federal money for civil defense and natural disasters.  What                 
  the department  was attempting to do was  bring together all                 
  disaster planning.  He commented that if a community did not                 
  have  a plan, if  DEC would release  "470 fund"  money for a                 
  plan, the same  functions would  have to be  applied to  the                 
  federal criteria.  That included accounting for  evacuation,                 
  sheltering, and damage assessment.   Emergency services made                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  no distinction on  the type of  events.   He wanted to  make                 
  clarify that DEC was not transferring all the staff that had                 
  been funded to support  the Commission.  They would  keep at                 
  least three  positions because they  retained the  community                 
  right to know responsibility  of SERA Title 3.   Even though                 
  DM&VA was  picking up the  support of the  Commission, DM&VA                 
  would do it  cheaper and  provide services  directly to  the                 
  local  governments in  the  creation of  these plans.   Once                 
  these plans were created, in effect, they were applicable to                 
  any type of event.   At the end  of the five years,  the two                 
  state planner positions would be eliminated, and it would be                 
  up to the local governments to maintain them.                                
                                                                               
  Senator  Kerttula said  that  he  did  not  know  about  the                 
  National Guard,  but did not  believe the military  would do                 
  anything cheaper.                                                            
                                                                               
  In answer to  Co-chair Frank,  Mr. Martin said  that he  had                 
  five planners already  in his budget  not including the  two                 
  requested.   Co-chair Frank asked,  if the concept  was that                 
  the local communities would look at local  needs and develop                 
  a plan,  would that  eliminate or  reduce the  need for  the                 
  state to  plan for disaster  response in a  particular area.                 
  He said it seemed like it would save money  and that savings                 
  could  be applied to  the support for  the local plan.   Mr.                 
  Martin concurred  and went on to say that if a community was                 
  physiologically prepared it reduced its vulnerability to the                 
  threat  of unanticipated events.   It can respond because it                 
  was aware of hazards that  could threaten them which reduced                 
  the burden to the state.  Prior to the Exxon Valdez, the two                 
  most coordinated jurisdictions with a plan in place were the                 
  Kenai  Peninsula  Borough  and  the  Kodiak  Island Borough.                 
  Under  SERA   Title  3,   the  super   fund  amendment   and                 
  reauthorization  act  of 1986,  Congress  mandated that  the                 
  states  must address  hazardous  substances and  promulgated                 
  national  response  team  guidance  for  hazardous  material                 
  annexes.   When that  happened the  state adopted the  State                 
  Emergency Response  Commission.  DM&VA recommended  that the                 
  Response Commission should  be "all hazards" because  of the                 
  numerous  threats  that  Alaska faced  in  our  environment.                 
  California was following that thinking with their Commission                 
  since  it  was  logical  and  more  cost effective.    If  a                 
  community  does  not have  a  plan,  it was  subject  to the                 
  liability of  losses, particularly the  loss of life.   They                 
  were aware of their hazards but did  not address them.  SERA                 
  Title 3  mandated the  creation of  a plan  and under  those                 
  plans, those functions must be  addressed and applicable for                 
  all disasters, floods, fires, volcanic eruptions, etc.                       
                                                                               
  Co-chair Frank again asked if those existing positions could                 
  be utilized to some extent  to perform this function without                 
  hiring two new people.   Mr. Martin agreed that  they could,                 
  but  the time  frame to  create the plans  would have  to be                 
  extended.   He reiterated  that the Commission  had been  in                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  existence  for four years and  until yesterday, no plans had                 
  been submitted.  He felt there was an element of frustration                 
  in the lack  of progress.  In answer  to Co-chair Frank, Mr.                 
  Martin said it  was a combination  of lack of state  support                 
  and other factors that caused delays.  He felt with material                 
  and  physical  support,  the  state  could  help  the  local                 
  organizations   develop   criteria  to   meet   the  minimum                 
  established federal standards.   By sending people  into the                 
  field, the department could write, print, and distribute the                 
  plan which accelerated the process.   Co-chair Frank pointed                 
  out that if  the state did all those things it was no longer                 
  a  local  plan.   Mr.  Martin  pointed  out  that the  local                 
  emergency  planning  committees  were  volunteers, were  not                 
  funded  nor  provided  staff.   There  was  some  funding in                 
  hazards'  analysis  and the  development  of  a plan.    The                 
  department provided the technical assistance.                                
                                                                               
  Senator Rieger  asked  why  the  Governor  did  not  use  an                 
  executive  order to  accomplish this.   Mr.  Martin  said he                 
  could not answer  that question.   Ms. Kreitzer  said SB  33                 
  started as a one page bill as a way to give  moneys to local                 
  emergency planning committees.  After the commissioners met,                 
  they  decided  to expand  on that.    She affirmed  that the                 
  departments had been very supportive  to come to a consensus                 
  on this bill.                                                                
                                                                               
  In  answer to Senator  Kerttula, Ms. Kreitzer  said they had                 
  been working with  the legislative  liaisons.  Last  session                 
  that was Chris  Lethin and Laurie Nottingham.   This session                 
  it was Raga Elim and Laurie Nottingham.                                      
                                                                               
  Co-chair Pearce  invited James Studley,  Vice Chairman, LEPC                 
  Association, Haines, to join the committee at the table.                     
                                                                               
  JAMES STUDLEY said that the same questions the committee was                 
  asking the department  were the same  as what the LEPCs  had                 
  tried to address and tried to get the departments to address                 
  over the years.  He said  he was here to testify in  support                 
  of SB  33.  He said he was  speaking for such communities as                 
  Anchorage  and Fairbanks,  but he  best represented  smaller                 
  communities such as Angoon, Kake, Pelican, etc.  He was very                 
  happy about DES and DEC working  out their differences.  His                 
  biggest concern was what  mechanism was going to be  used to                 
  fund  the  positions  that  were  going  from  DEC  to  DES.                 
  Somewhere  along the line, Mr. Studley stated that the money                 
  was  not  reaching   the  LEPCs.    Major   disaster  plans,                 
  tremendous requirements from statutes (he listed them) -- so                 
  many laws and regulations that the local  communities had to                 
  deal  with that it was overwhelming.   To not be financed by                 
  the government  and try to comply with these regulations was                 
  overwhelming.   To ask small  communities to develop  a plan                 
  without the needed  materials, was a  joke.  These were  all                 
  volunteers, they  saw a  need for  emergency planning,  they                 
  believed in it, they  were trying their best to  comply with                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  the  law  but unless  there was  some  kind of  pass through                 
  wording that gets some funding to  the local level, this was                 
  going  to  drag  on for  years.   The  mayors  in  the local                 
  communities say it was a state problem and refuse to finance                 
  the plans.   The  local people  do want  to write their  own                 
  plans  since it  was  their community.    He reiterated  the                 
  importance of a mechanism to get the funds down to the local                 
  level.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Co-chair  Frank asked  for specific  items that  communities                 
  needed but Mr. Studley said they  were too numerous to list.                 
  Co-chair  Frank admitted  that  local  communities would  be                 
  served with  general state  support  and fewer  regulations.                 
  Mr. Studley again stated  that unless the state funds  local                 
  efforts  to  develop  the   plans,  local  volunteers   were                 
  discouraged and finally to meet federal mandates, the state,                 
  if it did not fund now,  would be forced to hire persons  to                 
  meet federal  mandates.   In answer to  Co-chair Frank,  Mr.                 
  Studley  said,  even though  federal  moneys were  small, at                 
  least 75 percent  of the  funds went straight  to the  local                 
  groups.   He suggested  the state  use a  similar percentage                 
  mandate.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Senator  Kerttula  MOVED for  passage  of CSSB  33(FIN) with                 
  individual  recommendations.   No  objections  being raised,                 
  CSSB 33(FIN)  was REPORTED OUT  of committee  with a  fiscal                 
  note in the amount of $646.7  for the Department of Military                 
  &  Veteran  Affairs, and  a  fiscal  note in  the  amount of                 
  $(646.7) for  the Department of  Environmental Conservation.                 
  Co-chairs Pearce  and  Frank, Senators  Kerttula and  Rieger                 
  signed  a  "no recommendation."    Senator Kelly  signed the                 
  committee report with a "do pass" recommendation.                            
                                                                               
  HOUSE BILL NO. 372:                                                          
                                                                               
       An Act relating to the four dam pool transfer fund.                     
                                                                               
  Co-chair  Pearce  announced  that  HB  372  was  before  the                 
  committee.   She said  that it was the  companion bill to SB
  243 that was still in committee.   She voiced her preference                 
  that  HB 372 would be reported out of committee while SB 243                 
  would be held.   She  noted that  Randy Welker,  Legislative                 
  Auditor, Legislative Audit Division, was in the audience and                 
  willing to answer questions.                                                 
                                                                               
  Co-chair Frank commented that there had been much discussion                 
  on this legislation but few resolutions.   He suggested that                 
  problems might be resolved in the budget process.                            
                                                                               
  Senator Rieger asked if HB 372 would address Senator Sharp's                 
  concerns  since  he was  absent from  the meeting.   Senator                 
  Sharp's concerns as understood by Co-chair Pearce had  to do                 
  with on-going funding for the Division  of Energy.  She said                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  that HB 372 did  not speak to those concerns.   In addition,                 
  she said that Senator  Sharp had informed her staff  that he                 
  was comfortable with  dealing with  his concerns in  another                 
  piece of  legislation, the budget process, or  in some other                 
  way.                                                                         
                                                                               
  Senator Rieger voiced his concern with HB 372.  He said that                 
  it seemed if problems were being addressed that were created                 
  in  the legislation that was "stuffed down our throats" last                 
  year, he would  prefer to  correct all the  problems in  one                 
  bill.  He said that he had not had adequate time to read the                 
  legislation last year and  now wished he had asked  for more                 
  time to do that.  He again  pointed out that there were more                 
  problems than just  what was being  addressed in HB 372  and                 
  reiterated that it would be  his preference to do it  in one                 
  piece of legislation.   He said that when  he looked at  the                 
  history of  appropriations for energy  in the  state in  the                 
  early 80s,  it had  led to  nothing but  hard feelings  from                 
  about 1984 on.  So, now, when  a discussion was held on this                 
  subject, everyone was just growling at each other because of                 
  "baggage" people carry regarding, who  got more than someone                 
  else,  resentments  from  having  to  pay  back  loans  that                 
  supplement the grants  received, who  got more grants,  etc.                 
  His biggest  concern, in  general, although  there had  been                 
  this amount of money appropriated for  projects which may or                 
  may not  be excellent projects, the  state had put  a lot of                 
  money into  energy, but  now the state  had transferred  the                 
  energy program to  a place where  it was opening up  another                 
  source of money.  He said he did not know how much money had                 
  gone into the interties, the hydro projects, the Healy clean                 
  coal project...but now  there was a  fund in AIDEA that  was                 
  called the Enterprise Development Account which had $460M in                 
  it.    There were  statutory  changes  made last  year  that                 
  allowed  AIDEA  to  go  ahead  and either  back  more  power                 
  projects  with  its  assets  or  pledge  the  state's  moral                 
  obligation  pledge.  This opened up another source of funds,                 
  the capital  reserve fund.  This fund was an indirect way in                 
  which the  Commissioner of Revenue could  request additional                 
  money  from  the  state to  avoid  defaults  on  bonds.   He                 
  expressed his serious concern over how the transfer had been                 
  done last year,  where it was  at present, and the  exposure                 
  the state had to AIDEA.  He felt AIDEA was run well  and was                 
  pleased  to  hear  from  Riley   Snell's  testimony  that  a                 
  feasibility study would be done, and done correctly before a                 
  project  went  forward.   He felt  that HB  372 was  a minor                 
  clean-up for something  that needed a broad  based clean-up.                 
  He  was  disappointed  that those  problems  were  not being                 
  addressed.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Recess at 10:00                                                              
  Reconvene at 10:02                                                           
                                                                               
  Co-chairs Pearce  and Frank concurred  with Senator Rieger's                 
  concerns.  Co-chair Frank went on  to say that a few  things                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  were  left  undone  and  it  was  a matter  of  strategy  or                 
  cooperation with the  other body to have  that accomplished.                 
  He said there  were Senator  Rieger's concerns, the  concern                 
  relative to the administrative costs, and another concern on                 
  a specific  project brought up by Senator Halford.  Co-chair                 
  Frank said he  was not convinced that this was  the best way                 
  to proceed and  he wanted  assurance that  the other  issues                 
  would be addressed in a strong way.                                          
                                                                               
  Co-chair Frank MOVED  for passage of  HB 372 from  committee                 
  with  individual  recommendations.    No  objections   being                 
  raised, HB 372  was REPORTED  OUT of committee  with a  zero                 
  fiscal  note  for  the Department  of  Community  & Regional                 
  Affairs.    Co-chairs   Pearce  and   Frank  signed  a   "no                 
  recommendation."   Senators Rieger  and Kerttula signed  the                 
  committee report with a "do not pass" recommendation.                        
                                                                               
  SENATE BILL NO. 243:                                                         
                                                                               
       An Act relating to the four dam pool transfer fund.                     
                                                                               
  SB  243  was  scheduled but  not  heard.    It  was HELD  in                 
  committee.                                                                   
                                                                               
  ADJOURNMENT                                                                  
                                                                               
  The meeting was adjourned at approximately 10:15 a.m                         

Document Name Date/Time Subjects