Legislature(2015 - 2016)BUTROVICH 205
02/23/2016 03:30 PM Senate EDUCATION
Note: the audio ![]()
and video ![]()
recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB174 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 174 | TELECONFERENCED | |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE EDUCATION STANDING COMMITTEE
February 23, 2016
3:32 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Mike Dunleavy, Chair
Senator Charlie Huggins, Vice Chair
Senator Cathy Giessel
Senator Berta Gardner
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Gary Stevens
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 174
"An Act relating to the regulation of firearms and knives by the
University of Alaska."
- MOVED CSSB 174(EDC) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 174
SHORT TITLE: REG. OF FIREARMS/KNIVES BY UNIV. OF AK
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) KELLY
02/08/16 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/08/16 (S) EDC, JUD
02/16/16 (S) EDC AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/16/16 (S) Heard & Held
02/16/16 (S) MINUTE (EDC)
02/17/16 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
02/17/16 (S) Scheduled but Not Heard
02/18/16 (S) EDC AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/18/16 (S) Heard & Held
02/18/16 (S) MINUTE (EDC)
02/23/16 (S) EDC AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
WITNESS REGISTER
SENATOR PETE KELLY, Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
Sponsor of SB 174
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 174.
JOE BYRNES, Staff
Senator Pete Kelly, Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented changes in version N of SB 174.
KATHRYN MONFREDA, Chief
Criminal Records & Identification Bureau
Division of Statewide Services
Department of Public Safety
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions related to SB 174.
JIM JOHNSEN, President
University of Alaska
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 174.
BRIAN JUDY, Alaska State Liaison
National Rifle Association
Sacramento, CA
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 174.
HANS RODVIK, representing himself
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 174.
JOHN SONIN, representing himself
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 174.
EUGENE AVEY, Superintendent
Annette Island School District
Metlakatla, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 174.
MIKE COONS, representing himself
Palmer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 174.
ACTION NARRATIVE
3:32:46 PM
CHAIR MIKE DUNLEAVY called the Senate Education Standing
Committee meeting to order at 3:32 p.m. Present at the call to
order were Senators Gardner, Huggins, Giessel, and Chair
Dunleavy.
SB 174-REG. OF FIREARMS/KNIVES BY UNIV. OF AK
3:33:20 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY announced the consideration of SB 174.
SENATOR HUGGINS moved to adopt the CS for SB 174, labeled 29-
LS1306\N.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY objected for discussion.
3:33:59 PM
SENATOR PETE KELLY, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor of SB 174,
testified on SB 174. He deferred to his staff to explain changes
in the new CS.
SENATOR GIESSEL asked which version was before the committee.
3:34:50 PM
JOE BYRNES, Staff, Senator Pete Kelly, Alaska State Legislature,
presented changes in version N of SB 174. He noted version N was
before the committee.
MR. BYRNES addressed the summary of changes from version H to
version N:
Page 2, Lines 3-12
Under AS 14.40.173(b) adds to the exceptions of how the Board of
Regents may regulate the possession, ownership, use, carrying,
registration, storage, or transportation of concealed handguns
or knives by incorporating the recommendations from the
University of Alaska Board of Regents
· (b)(2) when the behavior of a student or an employee
demonstrates that the student or employee poses a risk
of harm to self or others [lines 5-6]
· (b)(3) in student dormitories or other shared living
quarters [line 7]
· (b)(4) in university facilities where health services,
counseling services, or other services related to sexual
harassment or violence are provided [lines 8-9]
· (b)(5) in university facilities during adjudication of
staff or student disciplinary issues [lines 10-11]
· (b)(6) in restricted access areas under (c)(3) [line 12
referencing lines 21-23]
3:36:46 PM
Page 2, Lines 24-26
Adds a subsection (d) that requires the University to establish
a process to allow a person who is prevented from carrying a
concealed handgun or knife under (b)(2) [lines 5-6] to regain
the ability to carry a concealed handgun or knife on university
property.
Page 3
Removes the transition language [previously in Section 3] giving
the Board of Regents 30 days following the effective date to
implement conforming policies.
He said the change on page 3 was not requested by the
university, but the sponsor felt it was not necessary and would
cause a delay.
3:38:01 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked if the language in the CS protects the
rights of a student in a classroom from being dismissed for
having a concealed gun.
MR. BYRNES said the bill does not allow the Board of Regents to
restrict the carry of guns and knives on campus.
3:39:06 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY opened public testimony.
KATHRYN MONFREDA, Chief, Criminal Records & Identification
Bureau, Division of Statewide Services, Department of Public
Safety (DPS), offered to answered questions related to SB 174.
SENATOR GARDNER asked if DPS has a position on the bill.
MS. MONFREDA said DPS is neutral on the legislation.
3:40:05 PM
JIM JOHNSEN, President, University of Alaska, testified on SB
174. He thanked the sponsor for including changes in the new CS
that address four areas of concern. He said the university still
has some concerns. The bill does not address concealed carry in
programs where there are K-12 students. If the programs were
offered in a K-12 setting it would be a criminal offense to
carry a weapon. He requested that SB 174 be consistent with
existing law and allow the university to apply similar standards
of care. He said he would be happy to work with the sponsor on
drafting a provision that narrowly focuses on this provision.
He brought up a second area of concern - concealed carry without
a permit. The CS does not require a permit as Senator Coghill's
bill did. He felt that it made a lot of sense in conjunction
with the other management tools. He said he would be happy to
work with the sponsor on that issue.
DR. JOHNSEN said the language proposed as AS 14.41.73(b)(5), on
page 2, line 10, of the CS applies to the adjudication of
student and employee discipline, but does not include disputes.
He stated the reasons why disputes need to be included, as well.
3:44:54 PM
BRIAN JUDY, Alaska State Liaison, National Rifle Association,
testified in support of SB 174. He said a person should have the
fundamental rights of self-defense and bearing arms when they
are on a college campus. He disagreed that protection should be
left up to the professionals. He maintained that police cannot
respond quickly enough, and every mass killing has been in a
gun-free zone. He said nine states have passed similar
legislation and there have been no problems on those college
campuses. He provided the history of concealed carry. He
suggested that the bill will not increase the need for more
security on campus.
3:48:56 PM
SENATOR GARDNER asked if the NRA thinks a citizen should be
unarmed on commercial aircraft.
MR. JUDY said that armed citizens should not be allowed at
security checkpoints if it can be proved that it will be safer
to do so. He said there could be secure areas on campus, if one
could assure that bad guys will not be on campus.
SENATOR GARDNER assumed that belief would hold true for a court
room also. She asked if the NRA believes K-12 schools should be
gun-free zones.
3:51:00 PM
MR. JUDY pointed out that it is in gun-free zones where mass
killings have taken place. He understood that in Alaska K-12
schools are theoretically gun free.
SENATOR GARDNER said the NRA has taken a position that guns
aren't the problem; mental health issues are the problem and
mental health services and screening are the solutions. She
requested more information about those services.
MR. JUDY thought that people with mental health issues should
get treatment.
3:53:04 PM
HANS RODVIK, representing himself, testified in support of SB
174. He said he worked on Senator Coghill's bill on concealed
carry on university campuses. He gave as reasons for supporting
the bill the safety of students and constitutional rights. He
shared a story about a rape on the University of Nevada-Reno. He
said there were 35 registered sex offenders within one mile of
UAA in 2014. He concluded that students have a right to protect
themselves.
3:57:00 PM
JOHN SONIN, representing himself, testified in opposition to SB
174. He questioned why the bill is even being heard. He did not
believe "kids" should have access to guns on campus. He did not
agree with the "good guy/bad guy" theory. He did not want to
return to the era where everyone carried guns.
3:59:53 PM
EUGENE AVEY, Superintendent, Annette Island School District,
testified in opposition to SB 174. He shared incidences when two
students brought weapons to school. He said in both instances,
the students had troubled lives. He did not think it would be
beneficial to allow teachers or anyone to have weapons on campus
and make quick decisions about whether to use them. He said
teachers do not want to be put into that position; it is best
left it up to the police force. He noted that getting the right
services for students provides better success.
SENATOR GARDNER asked if his concern was that the children would
have been shot.
MR. AVERY said yes, and that faculty might have had to make a
decision that they are not qualified to make. Teachers do not
need to be trained in concealed carry.
4:02:36 PM
MIKE COONS, representing himself, testified in support of SB
174. He did not agree with Dr. Johnsen's recommendation to not
allow concealed carry where K-12 students are. He said those
kids are not in danger and are more secure around people with
guns. He also was against the need to have a concealed carry
permit.
4:06:08 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY closed public testimony.
4:06:25 PM
At ease
4:06:38 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked if there were any amendments to the bill.
SENATOR GARDNER moved to adopt Amendment 1:
Page 2, following line 14:
Insert a new subsection to read:
"(d) Notwithstanding (b) of this section, the Board of
Regents may require a person who possesses, owns,
uses, carries, registers, stores, or transports a
concealed handgun to obtain a permit to carry a
concealed handgun in AS 18.65.700 - 18.65.790."
CHAIR DUNLEAVY objected for discussion.
SENATOR GARDNER explained Amendment 1. She referred to President
Johnsen's reasons for requiring someone who wants to carry
concealed to have a permit. It would ensure that a student or
employee would have had a certain amount of training, knowledge
of gun safety, and applicable law, as it was included in SB 176
in the previous legislature.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY maintained his objection.
4:07:41 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Senator Gardner voted in favor of
Amendment 1 and Senators Huggins, Giessel, and Dunleavy voted
against it. Therefore, Amendment 1 failed by a 1:3 vote.
4:08:18 PM
SENATOR GARDNER moved Amendment 2:
Page 2, line 3:
Following "in":
Insert "(1)"
Following "law":
Insert";
(2)university facilities where programs for preschool,
elementary, junior high, or secondary students are
provided; or
(3)restricted access areas under (c)(3) of this
section"
CHAIR DUNLEAVY objected for discussion.
SENATOR GARDNER explained that Amendment 2 was one of the
changes requested by the university. President Johnsen said it
would allow the university to regulate gun carry the same as K-
12 with existing standards for care on campus. University
facilities with K-12 students present would be regulated the
same as K-12 schools.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY maintained his objection.
4:08:59 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Senators Gardner voted in favor of
Amendment 2 and Senators Huggins, Giessel, and Dunleavy voted
against it. Therefore, Amendment 2 failed by a 1:3 vote.
SENATOR GARDNER moved Conceptual Amendment 3: on page 2, line
11, after "disciplinary issues" include the words "or disputes."
She said this was also suggested by President Johnsen.
4:10:06 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY objected.
SENATOR HUGGINS appreciated the spirit of the amendment, but
said the bill is dealing with constitutional rights and he did
not want to consider a conceptual amendment.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY agreed with Senator Huggins. He thought that
"dispute" needed to be defined. He said the next committee can
take up that amendment.
A roll call vote was taken. Senator Gardner voted in favor of
Conceptual Amendment 3 and Senators Huggins, Giessel, and
Dunleavy voted against it. Therefore, Conceptual Amendment 3
failed by a 1:3 vote.
4:12:03 PM
SENATOR HUGGINS moved to report CSSB 174 (EDC), version N, from
committee with individual recommendations.
SENATOR GARDNER objected. She said she understands that for some
people this is a black and white issue that the Second Amendment
has guarantees and for others it is understood as part of a
militia. She maintained that citizens accept that rights have
common sense compromises in various situations. It is accepted
that guns cannot be carried on airplanes and in psychiatric
wards, or in court rooms, pre-schools, and elementary schools.
She believed it should be the same for universities where there
are young people who are unformed in many ways and are in new
environments.
She did not believe that having everybody armed made people
safer. She gave examples of rape victims where the perpetrator
had a weapon. She said she was informed that the person with the
most training is safer in situations such as that, but, training
is not required in the bill. She concluded that the bill is
dangerous and she is going to vote against it.
4:14:57 PM
SENATOR HUGGINS said he does not accept that a person cannot
carry in an airplane. He shared a story about his daughter
needing guns for protection.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY appreciated the discussion. He maintained that
private institutions can set their own rules, but public
institutions that take public money must follow state law. He
said most students at some universities in Alaska are adults. He
said he considers the bill a rights issue. He spoke as a father
of three daughters, one who is on campus. He noted that research
shows that women are not involved in mass killings, except for
what occurred in San Bernardino. He believed students in Alaska
need protection on campus.
He agreed that alcohol is an issue on all campuses, but that it
does not mean gun rights should be denied. He said he sides on
the side of the Second Amendment. He said the University of Utah
has this law. He concluded that the bill would provide
protection on campus.
4:21:37 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Senator Gardner voted against moving
the bill out of committee and Senators Huggins, Giessel, and
Dunleavy voted for it. Therefore, the motion failed by a 1:3
vote. CSSB 174(EDC) reported from the Senate Education Standing
Committee.
4:22:07 PM
There being no further business to come before the committee,
Chair Dunleavy adjourned the Senate Education Standing Committee
at 4:22 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| CSSB 174 Version N.pdf |
SEDC 2/23/2016 3:30:00 PM |
SB 174 |
| SB174 Letters of Support.pdf |
SEDC 2/23/2016 3:30:00 PM |
SB 174 |
| SB174 Response to Members Questions at Feb. 16, 2016 Hearing.pdf |
SEDC 2/23/2016 3:30:00 PM |
SB 174 |
| SB 174 - Immunity Provision Memo from UA.pdf |
SEDC 2/23/2016 3:30:00 PM |
SB 174 |