Legislature(2015 - 2016)BUTROVICH 205
02/16/2016 03:30 PM Senate EDUCATION
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB174 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 174 | TELECONFERENCED | |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE EDUCATION STANDING COMMITTEE
February 16, 2016
3:32 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Mike Dunleavy, Chair
Senator Charlie Huggins, Vice Chair
Senator Cathy Giessel
Senator Gary Stevens
Senator Berta Gardner
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 174
"An Act relating to the regulation of firearms and knives by the
University of Alaska."
- HEARD & HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 174
SHORT TITLE: REG. OF FIREARMS/KNIVES BY UNIV. OF AK
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) KELLY
02/08/16 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/08/16 (S) EDC, JUD
02/16/16 (S) EDC AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
WITNESS REGISTER
SENATOR PETE KELLY
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SB 174.
JOE BYRNES, Staff
Senator Pete Kelly
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented information on SB 174.
JIM JOHNSEN, President
University of Alaska
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 174.
SCOTT OGEN, representing himself
Palmer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of SB 174.
LILY POTHIER, Student
University of Alaska-Southeast
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 174.
ZHENIA PETERSON, Student
University of Alaska-Anchorage
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 174.
SAMANTHA SAVAGE, Student
University of Alaska-Southeast, Juneau Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 174.
ACTION NARRATIVE
3:32:16 PM
CHAIR MIKE DUNLEAVY called the Senate Education Standing
Committee meeting to order at 3:32 p.m. Present at the call to
order were Senators Huggins, Giessel, Gardner, Stevens, and
Chair Dunleavy.
SB 174-REG. OF FIREARMS/KNIVES BY UNIV. OF AK
3:33:05 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY announced the consideration of SB 174.
SENATOR PETE KELLY, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor of SB 174,
related that the reason behind the bill is the escalating
incidence of mass shootings and the prohibiting of guns in gun-
free areas making many public institutions soft targets for
people with serious mental problems and terrorists to act. He
referred to examples of gun laws that were ineffective. He said
the University Board of Regents has made the University of
Alaska campuses gun free. He maintained that shooters are
targeting such places. He pointed out that people have a
constitutional right to keep and bear arms.
3:35:52 PM
JOE BYRNES, Staff, Senator Pete Kelly, Alaska State Legislature,
presented information on SB 174. He commented that the
constitution says, "The right to keep and bear arms shall not be
denied or infringed by the state or political subdivision of the
state."
SENATOR KELLY said the Board of Regents, a political
subdivision, has infringed upon that right. He agreed that the
Board of Regents has some duty to provide security on campus.
The bill allows the board to regulate the possession of firearms
in certain circumstances and beyond certain points. The bill
prevents the board from posting signs stating that guns are
forbidden on campus. He referred to the theater shooting
incident in Colorado as an example of how shooters target places
where guns are not allowed.
SENATOR KELLY said the bill is simple, but controversial, and
the people of Alaska have said they wish to, and have a right
to, carry concealed weapons. Not allowing this right on Alaska
campuses is putting students in danger. He noted there are 150
campuses in the U.S. that have allowed concealed carry without a
single incidence.
3:38:58 PM
SENATOR HUGGINS asked if SB 174 is the same as Senator Coghill's
previous bill.
SENATOR KELLY said it is similar with some changes.
3:40:00 PM
MR. BYRNES read from the sectional analysis of the bill:
Section 1
It is the findings and intent of the legislature that the right
to bear arms is constitutionally protected under Art. 1, Sec. 19
of the Alaska Constitution, that the University Of Alaska Board
Of Regents may not abridge that right, and the legislature
reserves to the state the authority to regulate firearms.
Section 2
Amends AS 14.40 (The University of Alaska and the Community
Colleges statutes) affirming the authority to regulate firearms
and knives is reserved to the state and except as provided by
statute, the Board of Regents may not regulate firearms and
knives.
The Board of Regents may adopt and enforce policies regulating
the open carry of firearms and knives, restricting the
discharge, and prohibiting the possession in restricted access
areas: on land where there is a reasonable likelihood that
people, animals, or property will be in jeopardy, and in an area
beyond a secure point where visitors are screened.
The University is prohibited from creating a database or
registry of persons who possess firearms on campus.
The University is also immune from civil liability for policies
enforced under this section.
Section 3
The Board of Regents have 30 days after the effective date to
adopt conforming policies.
3:42:05 PM
SENATOR STEVENS asked for an explanation of the immunity clause.
MR. BYRNES referred to a memo from legal services. He said it
would help prevent frivolous lawsuits against the university for
enacting policies conforming to Alaska statutes.
SENATOR STEVENS gave an example of a shooting on campus where
students were killed and the parents filed a lawsuit. He asked
if the university was liable.
3:43:14 PM
SENATOR KELLY thought the bill would not change anything in
current law. He offered to provide a copy of the legal opinion.
MR. BYRNES suggested asking legal services that question.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked if open carry is currently allowed on
campus.
SENATOR KELLY said the university is currently able to regulate
open carry and the bill does not change that.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY said that decision is made by the regents.
JOE BYRNES clarified that SB 174 says that the university may
adopt policies that would restrict the open carrying of firearms
and knives. They must not adopt policies that would restrict
concealed carry.
3:45:03 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked what the current process is for
getting a concealed carry permit.
MR. BYRNES stated that a concealed carry permit would not be
required under SB 174. Concealed carry permits are offered by
the Department of Public Safety. The process involves a fee,
training, fingerprinting, and a background check.
SENATOR GARDNER asked when a concealed carry permit is required.
SENATOR KELLY said anyone 18 and older can carry concealed. The
person must be 21 or older and go through a process to obtain a
concealed carry permit.
3:46:44 PM
SENATOR GARDNER asked why anyone would get a permit.
SENATOR KELLY said it could aid in getting a background check.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY added that there may be reciprocal agreements
with other states.
3:47:24 PM
SENATOR HUGGINS said the National Instant Criminal Background
Check System (NICS) serves as a background check for purchasing
firearms. He provided an examples of a student who had hunting
guns on campus in his car and a student who has a gun in the
dorm room. He asked what current rules the university has
regarding those examples.
MR. BYRNES said current university policy requires that the guns
be locked up in the vehicle or in storage. The campus has places
to lock them up.
SENATOR KELLY suggested looking at the regulations proposed by
the university regarding open carry in dorms.
3:49:28 PM
SENATOR GARDNER asked if there are limitations on concealed
carry other than on federal property and in K-12 schools and
pre-schools.
MR. BURNES said there are areas in Alaska where people cannot
conceal carry a weapon: in a person's home without their
permission, where alcohol is served for on-site consumption,
except in restaurants, in or around K-12 schools or on a school
bus, except with the consent of an administrator, in or around a
child care facility, in a court house or in justice related
entities, and in a domestic violence or sexual assault shelter.
SENATOR GARDNER asked if there are any limitations based on
characteristics of an individual, such as domestic violence
convictions or threats to persons.
SENATOR KELLY said those restrictions happen during the court
case; a conviction for domestic violence, a felony, forbids
access to firearms.
MR. BYRNES said those individuals would fail the background
check.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY said it prevents legal access to firearms.
SENATOR GARDNER inquired if a person who has been charged many
times, but never convicted of domestic violence, would have
restrictions to concealed carry.
SENATOR KELLY did not think so.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY said that should be checked out.
3:52:21 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL asked why this bill is needed other than for
constitutional rights and to prevent shootings.
SENATOR KELLY thought those alone were compelling reasons to
have the bill. There are situations where concealed carry stops
bad guys with guns, but they do not get reported. There is
evidence that those who carry stop shooters. He listed places
where people were killed by shooters who targeted easy places.
Since 1958, all but two public mass shootings have been in areas
where concealed carry was not allowed.
3:55:12 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL said her interest is providing protection for
young women who live on campus by allowing them to carry
concealed. She asked if there is any data on that type of issue.
3:55:54 PM
MR. BYRNES referred to a study that points to improved outcomes
for victims that have weapons. He noted law enforcement comes
"after the fact."
3:56:47 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY summarized that currently guns are allowed on
campus under specific circumstances. He asked how many shootings
have been committed on Alaska campuses.
MR. BYRNES offered to find out. He said he does have data on
crimes committed on campus.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY said currently guns are allowed if they are
locked up. He wanted to know the statistics about the number of
guns and the number of murders on campus. He stated that the
bill does not criminalize concealed carry on campus. He asked
what the current penalties are for concealed carry on campus.
MR. BYRNES replied that according to regent's policy, students
who have a weapon are subject to administrative sanctions. He
thought the person with a weapon would be asked to leave campus
and could be given a no trespassing sanction.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY gave an example of a teacher who kicks a student
out of a class for having a gun in his bag. He noted guns are
allowed on campus in certain circumstances. He thought the
university could provide the answer as to what would happen to
that student.
4:00:38 PM
SENATOR KELLY referred to Umpqua Community College shooting
where the Oregon State Supreme Court had determined students
could carry on campus; however, the student handbook said they
couldn't because the Board of Regents had ignored the law.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY noted that there are students who carry concealed
on campus now and their concern is over ramifications by the
university.
4:02:14 PM
SENATOR GARDNER referred to a document where the university
lists the number of offenses at each campus over three years.
She related that the Anchorage campus has the most problems and
most are liquor law violations, a little drug abuse, and several
sexual assaults, almost all in the dorms.
SENATOR GIESSEL inquired about page 2, lines 5 and 6, regarding
regulating possession. She asked if it is the intent that
individuals would be required to have a concealed carry card
after taking a course that emphasized the responsibility of
concealed carry.
SENATOR KELLY said no. It is up to the legislature to decide
when and how a student could conceal carry.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY said under SB 174 rifles would still need to be
locked in cars or lock boxes.
4:04:36 PM
SENATOR GARDNER asked, since the university is considered a
political subdivision of the state like the state capital, by
what authority is the capital able to be weapons-free.
SENATOR KELLY explained that it is state law. This bill does not
address that.
SENATOR GARDNER commented that there is a statute that says you
can prohibit guns in the state capital building.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked if Senator Gardner wished to make an
amendment.
SENATOR GARDNER said no. She wondered, "If what was good for the
goose, was good for the gander." She asked about having sporting
events, public speaker events, or conference venues being gun-
free due to the tendency toward ire-producing atmospheres.
4:06:36 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY opened public testimony.
JIM JOHNSEN, President, University of Alaska, testified in
opposition to SB 174. He recognized that the issue is not
whether the university is for or against guns in the broader
community. The university firearms regulations don't extend into
the community at large, they apply only university campuses and
to situations and people for which the university is uniquely
responsible. The university must intervene daily in conflicts
and manage how students and employees interact with each other.
DR. JOHNSEN said he believes the bill would prevent the
university and the regents from managing specific and known
problems. As a result, the university request amendments in five
specific areas: when student behavior indicates a risk of harm
to themselves or others; in student dormitories or other shared
living quarters, in K-12 programs on campus, in health,
counseling, discrimination, harassment, and Title IX offices,
and in adjudication of staff or student disputes, or
disciplinary issues. He stressed that these areas require
regulation and parallel restrictions found in criminal law. They
would allow the university to act before something happens.
4:10:53 PM
DR. JOHNSEN further addressed each of the proposed amendments.
For behavior indicating risk or harm, under SB 174, a student or
employee who exhibits depression, suicidal gestures, overt
hostility or aggression, must be allowed his or her weapon. The
"Report to the NRA" by the National School Shield Task Force
recommends that schools act promptly to behavior that indicates
a risk. Suicide is the second leading cause of death for
American college students. Alaska's suicide rate is nearly twice
the national average and is the leading cause of death for
people ages 15 to 24. Suicide attempts involving firearms are
almost always fatal. The campus actively works on these issues.
DR. JOHNSEN spoke to the second suggested amendment regarding
dormitories or other shared student housing. The university is
responsible for students' wellbeing and staff monitors students
in their living quarters. Under the bill, the student advisors
and resident assistants would have to deal with students who may
or may not be armed and intoxicated. Half of resident students
are under 21 and may not legally carry concealed weapons and
don't necessarily get to choose their roommates. Allowing
current university regulation would be consistent with criminal
law age limits on concealed carry, alcohol restrictions on
possession of firearms, as well as requirements for adult
resident consent to concealed carry in a residence. He said he
would not rely on criminal law alone to manage a residential
school.
DR. JOHNSEN addressed proposed Amendment 3 - dedicated programs
for K-12 students, which are run year round and especially
during the summer. Allowing UA regulation would be consistent
with existing state law governing K-12 grounds, buildings, and
events. They would also allow UA to meet the standard of care
suggested by those laws.
He explained that proposed Amendment 4 relates to places of
counseling services or other services for sexual harassment or
violence. SB 174 would require the university to allow
disgruntled or stressed out parties to bring concealed weapons
to investigative or other meetings and to places where victims
are seeking services. Allowing the university to regulate that
would parallel state law that makes possession of a firearm on
the grounds of a domestic violence shelter a crime.
DR. JOHNSEN explained proposed Amendment 5 regarding
adjudication of staff or student disputes. He said during
adjudication of disputes or disciplinary issues, the bill would
require the university to allow potentially combative and highly
stressed students and employees to carry a concealed weapon to a
grievance hearing or adjudication hearing. Allowing the
university to regulate that would be more consistent with
current state law that makes possession of a firearm in a court
facility a crime.
He concluded without these changes UA will not be able to manage
these foreseeable, high conflict, high risk situations that
occur on campus daily. He believed that responding after a crime
has occurred is not sufficient; legislators, parents, and
students expect more. He stressed that regulations in these
circumstances has value and UA's policies allow them to take
preventative action. The university does not believe the bill is
necessary given the restricted environment to which university
rules are applicable.
The university's regulations are in the category of restrictions
on weapons in government buildings and schools, recognized by
the courts and legislature as sensitive places where the
regulation of firearms is presumptively lawful and outside the
scope of constitutional protection. He stated that UA campuses
are very similar to circumstances in which Alaska law
criminalizes weapons possession. He said if the bill goes
forward the university respectfully requests changes be made to
protect the Board of Regents and the university administration
and to allow them to govern the university as constitutionally
mandated.
4:16:57 PM
SENATOR KELLY said the denial of constitutional rights is what
the bill is trying to address. He agreed with four out of the
five recommendations the university pointed out - there are
places "you don't bring your gun." He noted it is also important
to have the Board of Regents not putting a "wet blanket" on this
constitutional right.
4:18:26 PM
SENATOR STEVENS asked which provision Senator Kelly does not
agree with it.
SENATOR KELLY opined that parents should be allowed to have guns
at university K-12 programs.
4:20:22 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked whether disturbed students are currently
prohibited from having a gun in the trunk of their car.
DR. JOHNSEN offered to get back to the committee on that.
SENATOR STEVENS asked if there would be a need for more police
protection if SB 174 were to pass.
DR. JOHNSEN replied that there would be a need to expand
security and add a police force to the campus in Southeast
Alaska and in thirteen other campuses, at significant cost.
4:22:21 PM
SENATOR GARDNER asked about UA's ability to manage high risk
situations. She asked what Dr. Johnsen meant about protecting
the Board of Regent members. She requested an email response.
SENATOR HUGGINS spoke of the need for additional security. He
said many people could qualify to volunteer to be security on
campus.
4:24:07 PM
SCOTT OGEN, representing himself, testified in favor of SB 174.
He shared his experience of wishing he could have carried a
weapon when he worked in the Atwood Building. He agreed that
shooters frequent no-carry zones. He spoke in support of
reasonable regulations on campus.
4:26:50 PM
LILY POTHIER, Student, University of Alaska-Southeast, testified
in opposition to SB 174. She maintained that the bill directly
affects students' sense of security. She said concealed carry on
campus affects safety in areas other than just mass shootings,
such as violent situations on college campuses. She suggested
that differentials in powers would arise from having concealed
weapons on campus and this could affect relationships between
students, and staff and students. The change that happens in a
public space is not positive when people are allowed to carry
weapons. People feel less comfortable with other people, not
safe or full of well-being. If the goal is to increase campus
safety, a solution is to have armed guards, not armed students.
She concluded there should be a registry and screening process
for people with guns on campus.
4:30:35 PM
ZHENIA PETERSON, Student, University of Alaska-Anchorage,
testified in opposition to SB 174. She said allowing students to
carry concealed guns on campus would increase injury and death.
She spoke of her experience living on campus and said minors and
older students abuse alcohol. It would be dangerous for students
who use alcohol to have guns. The living quarters are very close
and it could be dangerous to have students with concealed
weapons who have not been screened.
4:32:54 PM
SAMANTHA SAVAGE, Student, University of Alaska-Southeast,
testified in opposition to SB 174. She pointed out that suicide
the second leading cause of death among college students and is
a major crisis in Alaska. Many studies have shown that access to
firearms and alcohol are risk factors for suicide. She shared
her experience on campus with suicides related to firearms. She
spoke in support of the university's efforts to protect their
students.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY left public testimony open and held SB 174 in
committee.
4:34:25 PM
There being no further business to come before the committee,
Chair Dunleavy adjourned the Senate Education Committee at 4:34
p.m.