Legislature(2009 - 2010)BELTZ 211
03/19/2009 03:30 PM Senate COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB127 | |
| SB129 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| = | SB 127 | ||
| = | SB 129 | ||
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
March 19, 2009
3:33 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Donald Olson, Chair
Senator Joe Thomas, Vice Chair
Senator Linda Menard
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Hollis French
Senator Albert Kookesh
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 127
"An Act establishing the Southeast State Forest and relating to
the Southeast State Forest; and providing for an effective
date."
MOVED SB 127 OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE BILL NO. 129
"An Act relating to state and municipal building code
requirements for fire sprinkler systems in certain residential
buildings."
MOVED SB 129 OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 127
SHORT TITLE: SOUTHEAST STATE FOREST
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
02/27/09 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/27/09 (S) CRA, RES
03/12/09 (S) CRA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 211
03/12/09 (S) Heard & Held
03/12/09 (S) MINUTE(CRA)
BILL: SB 129
SHORT TITLE: RESIDENTIAL SPRINKLER SYSTEMS
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) MENARD
02/27/09 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/27/09 (S) CRA, STA, L&C
03/17/09 (S) CRA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 211
03/17/09 (S) Heard & Held
03/17/09 (S) MINUTE(CRA)
WITNESS REGISTER
DEAN BROWN, Deputy Director
Division of Forestry
Department of Natural Resources
Anchorage AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SB 127.
MIKE ROVITO, Staff
to Senator Linda Menard
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SB 129.
JEFF TUCKER, Vice President
Alaska Fire Chiefs Association
Fairbanks AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in opposition to SB 129.
DAVID TYLER, Alaska State Fire Marshal
Division of Fire Protection
Department of Public Safety (DPS)
Anchorage AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in opposition to SB 129.
MIKE TILLY, Fire Chief
Kenai AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in opposition to SB 129.
SHELDON WINTERS, Lobbyist
State Farm Insurance
Juneau AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in opposition to SB 129.
PAUL MICHELSOHN, Director
Alaska State Homebuilders Association
Anchorage AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of SB 129.
MARTIN SCHWAN, Acting Fire Marshal
City of Anchorage
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in opposition to SB 129.
MICHELE WESTIN
Anchorage AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in opposition to SB 129.
ACTION NARRATIVE
3:33:18 PM
CHAIR DONALD OLSON called the Senate Community and Regional
Affairs Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:33 p.m.
Senators Thomas, Menard, and Olson were present at the call to
order.
SB 127-SOUTHEAST STATE FOREST
3:33:47 PM
CHAIR OLSON announced the consideration of SB 127.
DEAN BROWN, Deputy Director, Division of Forestry, Department of
Natural Resources, said SB 127 creates a state forest in
Southeast Alaska with 20 parcels totaling 25,291 acres. They are
general-use lands on Prince of Wales, Kosciusko, Tuxekan,
Gravina, Heceta, and Revilla islands as well as one parcel on
the mainland. These lands will be open for multiple uses like
mining, recreation, and logging. The bill will not affect
Wrangell's land selections. The bill will allow the state to
invest in long-term intensive forest management, like thinning.
There is a supportive resolution from Coffman Cove. The Board of
Forestry and the Alaska Miners Association support the bill. It
will increase forest productivity and multiple uses and will
benefit communities and industry.
3:36:54 PM
SENATOR THOMAS moved to report SB 127 from committee with
individual recommendations and attached fiscal note(s). There
being no objection, SB 127 moved out of committee.
3:37:44 PM
The committee took a brief at-ease.
SB 129-RESIDENTIAL SPRINKLER SYSTEMS
3:38:45 PM
CHAIR OLSON announced consideration of SB 129.
MIKE ROVITO, Staff to Senator Menard, Alaska State Legislature,
said SB 129 responds to a national movement of mandating fire
sprinkler systems for one and two-bedroom homes. It does not
prohibit Alaskans from putting sprinkler systems in their homes.
The systems are expensive -- three to five dollars per square
foot. Mandating them is excessive and puts financial burdens on
a homebuyer. Changes in residential construction technology have
dramatically dropped the number of fatal fires in the United
States. Fire separation, draft stopping, emergency escape
openings, and many other improvements have made homes more fire
safe without undue financial burdens. About 33 percent of
residents are on home well systems which will increase their
financial burden. There is also the risk of children hitting the
sprinkler and setting it off and flooding the home. That will
cause water damage and mold. Mold is a serious health risk.
3:41:24 PM
MR. ROVITO said standard smoke alarms have a proven track
record, and a malfunctioning smoke detector won't damage a home.
SENATOR OLSON asked how often sprinklers go off.
MR. ROVITO said he doesn't know, but a child or a ladder can hit
it and break the unit. He doesn't know how many times it
happens. But it can happen. Smoke detectors are only as good as
the batteries that are in them. By mandating sprinklers,
"there's nothing to say that a home owner, after paying that
cost, isn't just going to turn the valve off to that sprinkler
system, thus pretty much negating the system but having that
financial burden still."
3:43:10 PM
JEFF TUCKER, Vice President, Alaska Fire Chiefs Association,
Fairbanks, said he spoke on Tuesday, and since then there was a
fatal fire in a mobile home in the North Star Borough. There
were two exits in the home, but the rear exit was blocked by
clutter and the fire blocked the other exit. A residential
sprinkler system could've prevented the fire. It is important to
consider that there is no national mandate that this be adopted.
"This is truly a local option and a local issue." The bill
prohibits local jurisdictions from using this tool for improving
life safety. The option may have saved that individual.
3:45:07 PM
CHAIR OLSON asked if he is in favor of putting sprinkler systems
into mobile homes.
MR. TUCKER said it is an effective tool in any structure. He
doesn't mandate retrofitting sprinklers into older structures.
But if there had been a sprinkler system it may have saved this
person's life. The smoke detector could alert this person, but
he couldn't get out. A sprinkler system is a proactive device
that prevents a fire.
3:46:04 PM
CHAIR OLSON said he is not sure he would want them mandated in
mobile homes. He asked about erroneous triggering of the
sprinklers.
MR. TUCKER said typically the heads are recessed into the
ceiling and not exposed in a residential system. If activations
occurred by children playing, it would be a national problem in
all the schools. In residential structures there are no exposed
heads. The heads are recessed with a metal plate covering them.
3:47:28 PM
SENATOR MENARD asked if he has a sprinkler system.
MR. TUCKER said he doesn't have one.
SENATOR THOMAS said he repeatedly hears that the government is
invasive enough without telling people what to do in personal
residences. Information indicated that there was a national move
afoot to make sprinklers mandatory in some building codes that
would be adopted by municipalities. His main concern is the
government as big brother. He is sorry that somebody died. If he
had been reasonable enough to put in a sprinkler he would have
had smoke alarms and the back exit unblocked.
3:49:17 PM
MR. TUCKER said the code is a standard that local jurisdictions
can choose to adopt. The state doesn't have the power to do
that. It is a local option. A jurisdiction with problems such as
older fire-prone buildings has the option to protect the
residents and their neighbors. It is a local option that fire
officials, citizens, and building officials can use as a tool.
Blanket-wide requirements for sprinklers will likely not happen,
but there may be targeted applications for certain areas. On
Tuesday, an example was made for a neighborhood in Anchorage
regarding concentrations of buildings, the egress of roads, and
sprinkler systems. It is a tool for making prudent decisions on
fire and life safety.
3:51:17 PM
CHAIR OLSON asked about regulations for life and property in the
Department of Public Safety (DPS) and the restriction for
residential buildings.
DAVID TYLER, Alaska State Fire Marshal, Division of Fire
Protection, Department of Public Safety (DPS), Anchorage, said
the authority to manage codes is under AS 18.70.080. Paragraph
A2 delineates the DPS authority, and it specifically excludes
residential dwellings with three or less units. "We cannot adopt
codes to cover the safety standards for them."
CHAIR OLSON asked if that is true, in spite of the IRC
[International Residential Code] including it.
MR. TYLER said, "We cannot adopt the IRC."
3:52:47 PM
CHAIR OLSON asked about sprinkler systems mistakenly going off.
MR. TYLER said he has been a fire chief and in service in Alaska
since 1991 and saw one sprinkler malfunction. It was in a school
where a door was incorrectly installed. The door broke the
sprinkler head when it was opened. "I haven't really heard of
the problem before."
CHAIR OLSON asked if he ever heard of it happening in a
residence, and how often people turn off the sprinklers.
MR. TYLER said he has never known of one going off or being
turned off. Smoke alarms make noise and irritate people, so that
isn't a good comparison of people turning them off. "People
actually forget they're there; they're pretty invisible."
3:54:15 PM
MIKE TILLY, Fire Chief, Kenai, said he is against SB 129. Kenai
is a deferred jurisdiction. There are certain communities that
could adopt the residential code, "and I would like that
option." The city can adopt certain parts of the code that the
state cannot. The city should decide what is best for its
community. A year ago there was a malfunctioning alarm, and a
fire killed four people in a residential home. A malfunctioning
sprinkler will not kill anyone.
3:55:49 PM
SHELDON WINTERS, Lobbyist, State Farm Insurance, Juneau, said he
was sent to the hearing today to address a concern that arose
from Tuesday's hearing. He can't speak for the insurance
industry as a whole, but State Farm is the largest insurer of
homes in the country and in Alaska. It insures about one third
of the homes in the state. State Farm strongly opposes SB 129
and is an adamant supporter of fire sprinkler systems. State
Farm, like many other insurers, gives a discount for homes that
have sprinklers. It is a 10 percent discount for a full
sprinkler system, and it is a 5 percent discount for a partial
installation. They do it because of the lifesaving benefits of
fire sprinklers.
CHAIR OLSON asked if a single family dwelling can get a 10
percent discount for a full sprinkler system.
MR. WINTERS said yes, for a State Farm policy. There have been
other questions raised that he would like to address. If there
is a fire and the sprinkler goes off, "of course the water
damage associated with that is covered." An accidental and
sudden situation that results in the malfunction of the
sprinkler is covered. It is not covered as a flood, but it is
covered under the homeowner policy. If damage is caused by
freezing and the homeowner hasn't taken reasonable steps, that
might not be covered. There are always exclusions, but generally
water damage is covered. The insurance industry strongly opposes
this bill.
3:58:50 PM
CHAIR OLSON asked how often State Farm has paid a claim from
sprinklers going off accidentally.
MR. WINTERS said he can find that out.
CHAIR OLSON asked how claims are paid out for wet sheetrock and
carpet, as opposed to actual fire damage claims.
MR. WINTERS said the adjuster would assess that. As an insurance
defense lawyer he has dealt with some fire claims, and he
believes that it is fairly easy to tell what damage occurred
from the sprinkler and what damage had already been there.
4:00:13 PM
PAUL MICHELSOHN, Director, Alaska Homebuilders Association,
Anchorage, said his association supports the bill. State Farm
gives a discount for current systems, so it is a $50 discount
for a $500 policy, but the sprinkle system costs $9,000, so that
is a 40-year payback. Mr. Winters didn't address mold, and the
insurance would pay "the water policy but they will exclude mold
issues ... and the potential for you being dropped increases
because of the potential of mold." He is saddened by the man who
lost his life in the mobile home fire. Mobile homes would be in
the IRC, unless they are built through the HUD program. The vast
majority of fires and deaths in Alaska are in mobile homes and
substandard housing, but this bill is targeted at new
construction. Deaths have been substantially reduced because of
the way the houses are now built. Every fire chief told the
committee that SB 129 takes away a tool. "We are not taking away
their tool." They can still suggest installing a sprinkler to a
builder or developer for certain situations. The tool is not
being taken away. What is being taken away is that a fire
jurisdiction may not mandate that a person install a sprinkler.
It is all negotiable. A few people said the IRC is not the code
of record. "If you read the IRC, it refers you back to the IBC
[International Building Code] and the NFC [National Fire Code].
Both of those codes are codes of record." The NFC and the
international codes are competing bodies that battle for
finances through sales of literature and knowledge of the code.
4:04:25 PM
MR. MICHELSOHN said he believes that the state fire marshal has
the authority to enforce the NFC and the IBC. A triplex falls
under the IBC. "We are just looking for single one and two
family dwellings." If a single family residence has assisted
living, child daycare, or the occupancy load has changed to
other than a private residential structure, then it should be
required to have a sprinkler system per the IBC and the NFC. He
is not asking that light commercial or assembly structures "be
in a position that they can't or shouldn't be sprinklered."
Single-family residences have occupants that are very familiar
with structure, egress loads, and egress paths. In a public
place they are not familiar "so we should leave that as intact."
4:05:52 PM
SENATOR THOMAS asked about the bill's reference to a public
corporation. He doesn't know what that is, but it doesn't sound
like a borough or city. So the bill appears to still allow any
city or a service district to take a public vote to see if they
want to require [sprinklers]. There is concern in the Interior
with houses being built amongst a lot of black spruce, which is
a fire hazard. The park service and the Department of Interior
are worried about that.
MR. MICHELSOHN said, "The bill is put in place that no
jurisdiction in the state of Alaska can mandate a sprinkler
system." The bill doesn't forbid the U.S. Forest Service from
negotiating. For example, if a person wanted to build a cabin in
the forest district of Ketchikan and the forest service allows
it only if there is a sprinkler system, a person not willing to
put in the system can't build the cabin. The bill "is to stop a
city, as Ketchikan, to say that every building in the city
limits and the borough's outreaches has to have it; that's what
we're trying to prevent."
SENATOR THOMAS said the bill refers to a state agency or public
corporation, so it doesn't seem to cover boroughs, cities, or
groups of individuals that may want to vote to set the standards
of a homeowner association.
4:08:26 PM
MR. MICHELSOHN said he believes Senator Thomas is correct. If a
private homeowner association in Juneau built a subdivision and
they wanted sprinklers, they can put it on their plat map that
everyone who buys a house in that subdivision must have a
sprinkler system.
SENATOR THOMAS asked if the people of Fairbanks could vote to
require sprinkler systems. It would not be a mandate but the
will of the people.
MR. MICHELSOHN said that would be precluded, but all legislation
can be altered.
4:09:50 PM
MARTIN SCHWAN, Acting Fire Marshal, City of Anchorage, said he
is a certified plans examiner, an adjunct professor at UAA
[University of Alaska, Anchorage], and is past president of the
local chapter of ICC [International Code Council]. He opposes SB
129. The discussion is not about whether or not sprinklers are a
good idea -- they protect property and save lives. Fire
fatalities continue. In 2007, there was a home structural fire
every 79 seconds with one civilian fatality every 2.5 hours.
Clearly, fires continue to occur, and whether a home is new or
not has no bearing on fires. The code process has been very
successful. This bill should not even be before the Senate. It
should be done locally or nationally. The ICC is not for or
against sprinklers. The ICC moderates code change; the members
of ICC bring forward codes that go through committee and are
brought forward or turned down in the final action hearings. He
has two volumes with over 2,000 pages of proposed code changes.
Does the Senate really want to be involved in code development?
4:12:08 PM
MR. SCHWAN said now is the time to "nip this in the bud." He
sits through all of the code hearings - day after day, 10 to 13
hours per day. The influx of people who vote on code proposals
is tremendous. "So for the National Association of Home Builders
to cry foul that there was an influx of people who vote on this
residential sprinkler proposal - that's the way it works." The
bill circumvents the process. "I ask you to respect the process
under which codes are developed." At the local level, committees
are formed for code adoption who represent public and private
sectors. They go through all the code changes and can bring
forward amendments. They have the expertise to make local
amendments; it shouldn't happen at the legislative level.
Consider the precedent the legislature is setting. "Do you
really want to be involved in the code process? I really think
not. Leave it in the hands of the experts ... the bodies that
spend thousands and thousands of hours developing the codes." It
doesn't happen in just one month. People are working on the 2012
code, and it will take three years. To expect the Senate to
handle it in a week is not fair to the citizens of Alaska. There
will be consequences to development. Right now he can require
sprinkler systems in developments that exceed 30 units that have
a single fire access road. He will not have the ability to give
them the option of sprinklers in lieu of putting in the second
fire apparatus access road. "And I can tell you, right now the
development on the hillside district in Anchorage ... there's a
lot of proposed development and they have a lot of terrain
features that they're not going to be able to overcome." So
people will not be able to develop the area to the extent they
could. A tool is being taken away, because he cannot mandate
sprinklers in lieu of a second access road.
4:15:39 PM
MR. SCHWAN said he is not monitoring the pulse of the sprinkler
issue. "I am the one who is requiring sprinklers because of the
type of the occupancy ... because of the development." He
reviews building plans and development from the Knik Bridge down
to Portage. One of the tools that he uses is sprinklers in lieu
of a secondary access road. He told the committee to consider
what it is doing and the precedent it will set.
CHAIR OLSON asked how the bill will affect construction in rural
Alaska.
MR. SCHWAN said the state doesn't adopt the IRC. Of the 11
jurisdictions in Alaska only one actually adopts it. Those areas
will not be affected by a residential sprinkler proposal in the
IRC. The state fire marshal's office adopts the code, and the
deferred jurisdictions then have to adopt those codes and can
make their own amendments. They can be more restrictive but not
less. Rural Alaska is not going to be affected.
4:17:41 PM
CHAIR OLSON asked about his comment that fires in new
construction are the same as the ones in old buildings.
MR. SCHWAN said absolutely. The number one cause of fires is
unattended cooking.
CHAIR OLSON said the data show that most of the fires with
fatalities were of old construction without the latest
construction materials.
MR. SCHWAN said he is a fire inspector and he doesn't agree. The
validity of that argument is that there is some
compartmentalization of the fires to the room of origin, but
fires are still occurring in new construction.
4:19:05 PM
SENATOR MENARD asked if he has sprinklers in his home.
MR. SCHWAN said he has a 1200 square-foot home without a
sprinkler and would love to put them in. That is a project that
he will undertake by 2010. It costs about $3 per square foot for
a 13-D system, but his retrofit will be higher.
MICHELE WESTIN said she is testifying from a personal
perspective. She is a member of the fire service and a certified
planner, and she was a manager for the city of Anchorage for
many years. She suggested finding a middle ground. The issue is
becoming polarized. Anchorage is now developing odd and unique
areas such as the Anchorage hillside. There are a number of
subdivisions similar to Oakland, CA. She suggested that if the
bill passes and sprinklers are not able to be placed in these
subdivisions there should be strong plat notes on the properties
stating that the fire service cannot defend them. It is unfair
to homeowners who won't know three to five years after the
developers have left that they have a house that cannot be
defended by the fire service. Strong plat notes should tell
people that they have purchased a property that might not be
able to be defended.
4:23:00 PM
CHAIR OLSON asked if she is for or against SB 129.
MS. WESTIN said she is against it. She would allow local
jurisdictions to have the option to require sprinklers for
unique and challenging situations. She has a log house, and her
water heater caught on fire, so she has looked at putting in a
sprinkler system. "Even as a fire service person I shouldn't do
my own repairs on my water heater."
SENATOR THOMAS said development in areas where fire departments
can't go is a borough planning and real estate question, like
disclosing health and safety issues before buying a house. In
Fairbanks there are areas that aren't paying for fire service.
Sometimes fire fighters won't put out a fire because it isn't
within the fire district. It sounds cold, but if they didn't do
that, no one would pay. It should be a real estate problem and
locally controlled, and safety issues should be disclosed.
4:26:03 PM
MS. WESTIN said she lived in Fairbanks, and requiring plat notes
is very political. It is the same as when people build in
avalanche zones. Often jurisdictions are afraid to create a
stigma on property by telling the truth to homeowners. She urged
a middle ground and to not say "no sprinklers ever."
SENATOR THOMAS asked if the bill does that. The only reference
he sees is to a state agency or a public corporation, which
sounds like something like the railroad.
MS. WESTIN said she would be concerned if the legislation takes
away the ability of municipalities to require sprinklers in
unique slope, topography, and fuel load situations.
4:28:04 PM
SENATOR MENARD moved to report SB 129 from committee with
individual recommendations and attached fiscal note(s). There
being no objection, the bill moved out of committee.
4:28:47 PM
The meeting was adjourned at 4:28 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB127 Coffman Cove Letter.pdf |
SCRA 3/19/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 127 |
| SB127 DNR Followup Letter.doc |
SCRA 3/19/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 127 |
| SB129 Fiscal Note NEW.pdf |
SCRA 3/19/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |
| SB129 NFPA Letter.doc |
SCRA 3/19/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |
| SB129 IFCA.pdf |
SCRA 3/19/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |
| SB129 IFCA Followup Letter.doc |
SCRA 3/19/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |