02/10/2009 03:30 PM Senate COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB48 | |
| SB93 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 48 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SB 93 | TELECONFERENCED | |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
February 10, 2009
3:32 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Donald Olson, Chair
Senator Joe Thomas, Vice Chair
Senator Hollis French
Senator Albert Kookesh
Senator Linda Menard
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 48
"An Act exempting municipal service area boards from the
requirements of conducting meetings open to the public when
meeting about road conditions affected by harsh weather."
MOVED CSSB 48(CRA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE BILL NO. 93
"An Act relating to a municipal property tax credit for an
improvement that aids in improving air quality."
HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 48
SHORT TITLE: MEETINGS OF ROAD SERVICE AREA BOARDS
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) THERRIAULT
01/21/09 (S) PREFILE RELEASED 1/9/09
01/21/09 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/21/09 (S) CRA, TRA, JUD
02/10/09 (S) CRA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 211
BILL: SB 93
SHORT TITLE: MUNICIPAL AIR QUALITY PROPERTY TAX CREDIT
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) PASKVAN
02/04/09 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/04/09 (S) CRA, FIN
02/10/09 (S) CRA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 211
WITNESS REGISTER
GENE THERRIAULT, Senator
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SB 48 as sponsor.
RENE BROKER, Attorney
Fairbanks North Star Borough
Fairbanks AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of SB 48.
LUKE HOPKINS, Member
Fairbanks North Star Borough Assembly
Fairbanks AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of SB 48.
TIM BECK, Chair
Road Service Area Committee
Fairbanks North Star Borough Assembly
Fairbanks AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of SB 48.
SHAWN KITTLE, Alternate Commissioner
Chena Spur Road Service Area
Fairbanks AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of SB 48.
JOE PASKVAN, Senator
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SB 93 as sponsor.
JIM CONNOR, Air Quality Specialist
Fairbanks North Star Borough
Fairbanks AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of SB 93.
GLEN MILLER, Transportation Director
Fairbanks North Star Borough
Fairbanks AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of SB 93.
NADINE WINTERS, Presiding Officer
Fairbanks North Star Borough Assembly
Fairbanks AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of SB 93.
ALICE EDWARDS, Acting Director
Division of Air Quality
Department of Environmental Conservation
Juneau AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Discussed programs related to SB 93.
ACTION NARRATIVE
3:32:42 PM
CHAIR DONALD OLSON called the Senate Community and Regional
Affairs Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:32 p.m. Present
at the call to order were Senators Menard, Kookesh, Thomas, and
Olson. Senator French joined the meeting in progress.
SB 48-MEETINGS OF ROAD SERVICE AREA BOARDS
CHAIR OLSON announced consideration of SB 48.
3:33:48 PM
GENE THERRIAULT, Senator, Alaska State Legislature, said he
became interested in the language in SB 48 after reading a News
Miner editorial on September 3, 2008, regarding service areas in
the Fairbanks North Star Borough. They were have difficulty
meeting requirements of the Open Meetings Act [in state
statutes] regarding simple decisions, like if the snow was deep
enough to call out the plows. Service areas have citizens within
their boundaries who volunteer their time to make decisions on
road maintenance.
SENATOR THERRIAULT originally told the bill drafters he'd like
to allow service areas to respond quickly to heavy snowfall and
such. After introducing his original bill, he talked to borough
attorneys to better understand the problem. Based on that, he
drafted a CS [committee substitute], version R. It basically
does the same thing but in a little different technical way.
SENATOR THOMAS moved to adopt the CS to SB 48, labeled 26-
LS0293\R, as a working document. There being no objection,
Version R was before the committee.
3:36:55 PM
SENATOR THERRIAULT directed attention to page 2, line 15, which
refers to the type of meeting that a road service area
commissioner can engage in without following the Open Meetings
Act. He said requirements for noticing a meeting for the borough
assembly were less restrictive than for the service areas. The
assembly sets the budget for road maintenance, but there is a
director who decides to call for plows or fix a pothole, and he
or she wouldn't have to notice a meeting but just do it within
the constraints of the budget. Senator Therriault is trying to
give the service areas that same authority. They will have to
publicly notice a yearly meeting to set policies, millage rates,
and budgets, but when the time comes to administer that policy,
a meeting won't be necessary.
SENATOR THERRIAULT said the end of page 2 of the CS deals with
the number of members at the meetings. He found that the
requirements for service areas are more restrictive - even
though they were just performing an administrative function -
than a body that was actually setting policy. The original
language required that if two service area workers were going to
talk about a billing or the replacement of a culvert, for
example, that was deemed to be a "prearranged" meeting. "It
seems like they should have no more restrictive language than
the policy-setting body, like the borough assembly. And so what
we did is just repeat the same language that the policy-making
body has and place the same restrictions on the administrative.
Before, it was more restrictive for the administrative function;
now, it's the same level of restriction."
3:40:50 PM
CHAIR OLSON asked about the title change in the CS and if it
broadens it to the point where edits can be made that might not
be favorable to the service areas.
SENATOR THERRIAULT said the original bill title spoke to just
harsh weather conditions, like heavy snowfall. The CS intends to
give [service areas] a little more latitude for administrative
functions. They have a budget that gets set in a publicly
noticed meeting, and they then "just go about spending the money
that was budgeted for snow removal, for road repairs."
CHAIR OLSON asked how one person would be aware of the budget to
be able to call out heavy equipment in the middle of the night.
He asked about budget overruns.
SENATOR THERRIAULT answered that if there were cost overruns or
funds shifted to different needs, it would probably require a
noticed meeting, because that would represent a policy change.
3:43:05 PM
SENATOR THOMAS asked what problems arose that caused this bill.
He assumes the road commissioner already has the authority to
make those decisions without calling a special meeting.
SENATOR THERRIAULT said these are all volunteers, and there are
fewer commissioners than originally intended. Many times the
chair of a commission doesn't want all of the responsibility of
the decisions, so decisions and responsibilities are shared.
They touch base with each other before they make the decisions.
A municipality may have a director of road maintenance that has
all of that authority, but service area members share that
responsibility and talk amongst themselves.
SENATOR THOMAS asked what is lacking in current language that
doesn't already allow it.
SENATOR THERRIAULT said that the Open Meetings Act requires any
"arranged" meeting to be noticed by 5 days and be public, even
if it was a series of phone calls. Consequently, they can't
respond quickly to a situation.
3:45:57 PM
SENATOR THOMAS asked if the language in (B), "to add more than
three members of a majority …" is to accommodate that phone
conversation.
SENATOR THERRIAULT said, "To make it no more restrictive than
the language that applies to policy-making bodies."
SENATOR MENARD said she was speaking to an assembly person from
Talkeetna, and he was grateful that this was being addressed
because it is a big concern to his area by Trapper Creek. They
have to get work done and they can't talk to each other because
of the open meeting laws.
3:47:09 PM
SENATOR THERRIAULT said the new language on Page 2, lines 30-31,
is copied from lines 25-26. The drafter suggested that.
CHAIR OLSON asked if there is opposition.
SENATOR THERRIAULT said he is not aware of any.
SENATOR THOMAS asked why municipal boards and committees are
added. Do they have the same concerns?
SENATOR THERRIAULT said yes, the bill adds the municipal boards,
commissions, and other similar bodies that are performing an
administrative or managerial function. On lines 25-26 and 28,
the bill speaks to the three members of a government body that
have the authority to establish policies, "so that's the
language that the borough assembly falls under," and (B) refers
to those entities that have no authority to establish policy.
"We're placing the same level of restriction on them - on the
administrative board - that the policy-making board had." It
didn't make sense that the administrative board was more
restrictive when all they are doing is performing an
administrative function. They are not establishing policy.
SENATOR THOMAS said the words "administrative" and "managerial"
are general, and no telling where it may end up. His concern is
if those entities will expend money properly and at the right
time, "so I guess we'll just have to live with whatever
decisions are made there."
3:50:15 PM
CHAIR OLSON asked for testimony.
3:50:31 PM
RENE BROKER, Attorney, Fairbanks North Star Borough, spoke in
favor of the CS because it fixes two unintended consequences of
the Open Meetings Act without affecting its important goals. "We
don't want to diminish, really, what that act tries to do for
the public." The Open Meetings Act already recognizes that day
to day administrative functions can be conducted and still
comply with the act. That is why it already exempts municipal
employees. The bill just extends that very narrow exception for
very narrow functions to volunteer boards and commissions, since
they are performing the same function that would ordinarily be
performed by a municipal employee. The second fix removes a
bazaar anomaly by clarifying that the same numerical standard
that applies to policy-making bodies also applies to advisory
boards. These two fixes will strengthen the act by making it
more practical and workable.
3:52:34 PM
SENATOR THOMAS asked for examples that brought attention to this
issue. He is aware of one.
3:53:04 PM
MS. BROKER said it has been a long festering issue with road and
fire service area commissioners. They are prevented from doing
their job effectively by the five-day notice. It is not just
snow removal, there are potholes and brush issues. Fire service
is dealing with similar issues in a different context. She has
been hearing complaints for years. They can't comply with the
law without meaningfully impacting the service they provide.
SENATOR THOMAS asked if there is any opposition.
3:54:29 PM
MS. BROKER said there is always discontent but not on this issue
that she has heard of. It has been through several public
processes because it started with a resolution, and the assembly
heard public comment and acted on that. There has been plenty of
opportunity to take issue with it, and she has heard none.
CHAIR OLSON asked why it wasn't changed before.
MS. BROKER said there is important policy in the public meetings
act, and she didn't want to do any violence to that. It has just
been an ongoing communication facilitated by the service area
committee. They came up with a means to preserve public notice
and input for important functions like policy decisions and
provide flexibility to run the service area.
3:56:36 PM
LUKE HOPKINS, Member, Fairbanks North Star Borough Assembly,
spoke in support of the CS. Some assembly members can meet to
discuss administrative actions but two members of an advisory
body can't. They have a standard. People just accepted the law,
but finally they decided that something needs to be done, so the
assembly decided to move it forward as a legislative priority.
He is a member of the board of the Alaska Municipal League, and
this issue has been discussed. He has spoken with other
municipalities and all agree that it would be a good thing to
clear this up without undoing the Open Meetings Act.
3:58:46 PM
TIM BECK, Chair, Road Service Area Committee, Fairbanks North
Star Borough Assembly, thanked Senator Therriault and Chair
Olson for bringing this forward. It came up because two
commissioners had a contract with road construction personnel
and they couldn't stop and meet with the contractor together
because it violated the act.
3:59:57 PM
SHAWN KITTLE, Alternate Commissioner, Chena Spur Road Service
Area, Fairbanks, said his service area has a chair, two
commissioners, and an alternate. The chair can't even
communicate with commissioners regarding a convenient date and
time for a meeting. So the meetings just get noticed and the
commissioners try to make their schedule work. If there is a lot
of snow, one person has the task of calling for road service,
"but none of us know what the other person is doing or if its
been done." He urges support of SB 48 because it would solve
some of the headaches they face. Also, if a member goes out of
town, he or she can't let others know what needs to be handled
while that person is out of town. It really hampers the day-to-
day operations. He urged the support of Senator Thomas.
4:02:46 PM
SENATOR THERRIAULT said he has worked with Ms. Broker on this
language. Other areas of the state face the same burden. He
reiterated the example of two commissioners not being able to
talk to a contractor on the road. "That certainly doesn't make
sense when you've got people volunteering their time." The snow
is packed down on Interior roads, and as the weather warms up,
"you want to have the plow out there at just the right time ...
[when] it's soft enough to actually loosen from the road." A
five-day notice for a meeting can't work. Service areas will
still need to notice meetings for setting policy. Ms. Broker
said it is not unlike a municipal employee who makes
administrative decisions and has an exemption.
4:05:40 PM
The committee took an at-ease.
4:05:57 PM
SENATOR THOMAS moved the CS to SB 48, labeled 26-LS0293\R, from
committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal
note(s). There being no objection, CSSB 48(CRA) moved out of
committee.
4:06:24 PM
The committee took an at-ease.
4:07:18 PM
SENATOR FRENCH joined the meeting.
SB 93-MUNICIPAL AIR QUALITY PROPERTY TAX CREDIT
CHAIR OLSON announced consideration of SB 93.
4:08:06 PM
JOE PASKVAN, Senator, Alaska State Legislature, read from his
sponsor statement:
Some communities in Alaska have been designated as
non-attainment areas for PM 2.5 by the EPA. Based on
the requirements of the Clean Air Act, the state and
those impacted local governments have three years to
develop attainment plans designed to bring air quality
into compliance with federal air standards.
SB 93 is needed as a first step to allow local
municipalities the latitude in developing tax credit
programs to address the important public health and
community compliance issues that result from poor air
quality.
SB 93 is designed to provide optional tools to
municipalities that can be used to create incentives
for individuals to take actions that will improve
local air quality and reduce fuel consumption.
SB 93 expands the discretion of municipalities in a
manner that allows, by ordinance, the creation of
programs that will offer property tax credits for
actions that the local governing body determines will
improve air quality. This bill requires that
eligibility, conditions and other criteria for the tax
credits be established by ordinance.
SENATOR PASKVAN said the SB 93 can be used by municipalities for
exchanging old wood stoves for EPA certified stoves, which will
significantly reduce fine particulate emissions. It can include
incentives to improve fuel consumption and to convert from a
carbon-based system to alternative energy. SB 93 is designed to
provide a full range of options for local municipalities to
address air quality. There is a zero fiscal note attached.
4:10:44 PM
CHAIR OLSON asked what incentives can produce a zero fiscal
note.
SENATOR PASKVAN said it won't cost the state. The municipality
will provide tax credits. People from Fairbanks will be
testifying on what option they are considering. This is a first
step to improve air quality and meet the EPA's timeline.
4:11:43 PM
CHAIR OLSON asked if this is a property tax credit.
SENATOR PASKVAN said yes.
4:11:55 PM
JIM CONNOR, Air Quality Specialist, Fairbanks North Star
Borough, said Senator Paskvan did a good job of outlining the
issues. In September, 2006, the EPA lowered the allowable levels
of PM 2.5, otherwise known as fine particulates that are smaller
than a blood cell. It went from 65 micrograms per cubic meter to
35. Fairbanks regularly hits 40 to 50 during the winter, so it
fell out of attainment with the EPA. The majority of the
pollution is coming from space heating and transportation. This
bill allows the borough to address the heating component without
finding money. "This really provides us with a wonderful
incentive, and I would really like to see this passed."
4:13:43 PM
CHAIR OLSON asked if there is a problem with particulate matter.
MR. CONNOR said yes, there is a tremendous amount of fine
particulates in the Fairbanks area. From the hillside, "it looks
like the place is on fire just because of all the smoke that's
sitting in the valley."
CHAIR OLSON asked if it is about health troubles or what.
MR. CONNOR said, "We get many calls from people who are
beginning to have health problems. The most sensitive people
call first."
CHAIR OLSON asked if he is talking about people with lung
problems, like asthma and emphysema.
MR. CONNOR said, yes: respiratory and heart disease.
CHAIR OLSON asked about the burden to people who burn wood.
MR. CONNOR said there are very efficient devices for burning
wood, so the inefficient units will be targeted. There is an
estimated 5,000 wood stoves that are not EPA certified. "We
figure we'll get at least a factor of 10 reduction from the
emissions ... by replacing them with more efficient units."
4:15:12 PM
CHAIR OLSON said people who have the older stoves are least able
to afford a new one. They will have to put the cash out first
before they get a tax credit. "How do you take the burden off of
those that are most burdened already?"
MR. CONNOR said the borough will be pursuing wood stove change-
out programs, like the one with the Alaska Department of
Environmental Conservation (DEC). But some people will be
burdened by spending money first and getting the credit later.
4:16:30 PM
SENATOR THOMAS suggested that people are not required to do
anything by this law. They would do it on their own if they want
to and can benefit by the tax credit.
MR. CONNOR said there is also the economic incentive of getting
more heat for their fuel in their stoves. But it doesn't look
very attractive to someone who is asked to pay up to $2,000 to
replace a working system. It is not required. There is no
requirement for anybody to change stoves.
4:17:27 PM
GLEN MILLER, Transportation Director, Fairbanks North Star
Borough, said he didn't intend to testify but after reviewing
the bill he encourages its support. It will speed up the process
that Fairbanks' needs to go through. There are only three years
to come into attainment. He doesn't think control measures will
be enacted for at least another year. It leaves very little time
for Fairbanks. This bill will provide early incentives for
individuals who choose such modifications. It could make
attainment much easier. Future control measures may be relaxed
due to this incentive program.
4:19:24 PM
SENATOR THOMAS asked how many times Fairbanks exceeds EPA
attainment numbers.
MR. MILLER said it is typically 20-30 times per year.
CHAIR OLSON asked the consequences of that.
MR. MILLER said that after two violations, Fairbanks can be put
in the status of nonattainment. It could ultimately have
financial consequences, but this is a health-based standard, and
the public is at risk. It could impact DOT [Department of
Transportation] money for Fairbanks and the state.
CHAIR OLSON asked what happens if attainment isn't attained
after three years. Will there be heavier measures against wood
stove burning and transportation activities?
4:21:13 PM
MR. MILLER said there are three years to produce a plan and five
years to achieve attainment. After that, an extension can be
requested. Ultimately the state is responsible, and if the state
can't fix it, EPA will take action, which could mean federal
sanctions or controls. Other states have prohibited burning wood
entirely.
CHAIR OLSON said it is a concern if people can't heat their home
because wood is the only option.
4:21:52 PM
NADINE WINTERS, Presiding Officer, Fairbanks North Star Borough
Assembly, said Fairbanks is in a difficult position. Recent oil
prices have caused more people to heat with wood. The borough is
looking for ways to reach attainment and improve air quality
without making it onerous on individuals and businesses. If a
person has a non-EPA certified stove, SB 93 will allow Fairbanks
to give a property tax credit for buying a new stove. It is a
way to deal with EPA and health issues. Another concern is that
being out of attainment is a potential hindrance to economic
development, especially for any project that requires an
environmental assessment or impact statement. She asked the
committee to support the bill.
4:24:41 PM
SENATOR FRENCH said he is envious of Fairbanks's financial
strength. He doesn't think Anchorage would extend a tax credit
to anybody for anything. He asked how much money will be made
available for this credit.
MS. WINTERS said she doesn't know how many people heat with
wood. This approach is an "avoidance of taxes collected versus
direct expenditure." It will be a difficult trade off even
though Fairbanks doesn't have a shortfall. Taxpayers are feeling
pressure everywhere. She said the costs will be looked at
closely and the borough will assess "what we're going to do
without ... as a result of this program." But the stakes are
really high; it involves the community's physical health and
future economic development.
SENATOR THOMAS said he understands there has been a rapid
increase in coal burning stoves when the price of fuel oil went
up, which is not good. "The government's response to that as a
health hazard is to withhold transportation funds. It usually
seems to be the first thing that they approach." He asked if she
has numbers on coal stoves sold in the Fairbanks area.
4:27:13 PM
MS. WINTERS said she doesn't know, but coal stoves are serious
contributors to PM 2.5 and there has been an increase in them as
a result of oil prices. The emissions tend to stay low to the
ground, which is not good. She is not sure there is an EPA
compliant coal stove. That will be another difficult legislative
decision.
SENATOR THOMAS asked if the tax credit will be available for
exchanging a coal stove for a cleaner burning stove.
MS. WINTERS said yes.
4:29:02 PM
ALICE EDWARDS, Acting Director, Division of Air Quality,
Department of Environmental Conservation, Juneau, said the
division received a grant of under $100,000 to do a pilot wood
stove change-out program. It is a drop in the bucket compared to
what is needed. She expects to see about 80 stoves exchanged.
The division is proceeding with it this spring. At this point
the program doesn't necessarily target low income homes,
although there are some other programs in the state offering
weatherization and energy assistance to low income homes.
CHAIR OLSON said, according to the bill sponsor, there are 5,000
to 6,000 wood stoves with an estimated 20 to 30 percent that are
not EPA compliant.
4:30:44 PM
SENATOR PASKVAN said communities such as Fairbanks have already
been designated non-attainment areas, so [SB 93] allows them to
use tax credits to encourage voluntary conduct by individuals.
That will help them figure out if reducing fine particulates,
increasing energy efficiency, or converting to alternative
energy works best for each community. That is a "carrot" that
will help avoid EPA's "stick".
4:32:20 PM
SENATOR KOOKESH asked how to control air quality with all the
forest fires. "You always have fires around that area." Whenever
he is in Fairbanks, he drives through smoke that is not from
wood stoves.
SENATOR PASKVAN said he understands because he has lived through
two of those summers. The bill is primarily designed to control
the problem during winter when there are inversions that trap
fine particulates at ground level. That is why Fairbanks differs
from other communities.
CHAIR OLSON asked if he means that particulates aren't a problem
during forest fires.
SENATOR PASKVAN said he didn't say that at all. That is
something that no government can control. But for controllable
issues, like wood stoves, burning too much oil in inefficient
buildings, and not changing to non-carbon energy, that is where
we are trying to give incentives for voluntary efforts. This
will allow municipalities to come up with the best alternatives
that meet the needs of people.
SB 93 was held over.
4:34:39 PM
There being no further business to come before the committee,
the meeting was adjourned at 4:34 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| CSSB48 Sectional Analysis.pdf |
SCRA 2/10/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 48 |
| CSSB48 Work Draft.pdf |
SCRA 2/10/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 48 |
| SB48 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
SCRA 2/10/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 48 |
| SB48 Fact Sheet.pdf |
SCRA 2/10/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 48 |
| SB48 FBks NSB Request for Legislation.pdf |
SCRA 2/10/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 48 |
| SB48 Fbks NSB Resolution 2008-34.pdf |
SCRA 2/10/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 48 |
| SB48 Expected Testimony List.pdf |
SCRA 2/10/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 48 |
| SB48 Fiscal Note DCCED.pdf |
SCRA 2/10/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 48 |
| SB93 FEDC Study.pdf |
SCRA 2/10/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 93 |
| SB93 Fbks NSB Letter.pdf |
SCRA 2/10/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 93 |
| SB93 AML Letter.pdf |
SCRA 2/10/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 93 |
| SB93 Fiscal Note DCCED.pdf |
SCRA 2/10/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 93 |
| SB93 Particulate Matter.pdf |
SCRA 2/10/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 93 |
| SB93 PM2.5.pdf |
SCRA 2/10/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 93 |
| SB93 Q&A.pdf |
SCRA 2/10/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 93 |
| SB93 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
SCRA 2/10/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 93 |