Legislature(2001 - 2002)
04/20/2001 04:07 PM Senate 022
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
CONFERENCE COMMITTEE ON HJR 22
April 20, 2001
4:07 p.m.
HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Jeannette James, Co-Chair
Representative Bill Williams
Representative Ethan Berkowitz
HOUSE MEMBERS ABSENT
All House members present
SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Jerry Ward, Co-Chair
Senator Pete Kelly
Senator Lyman Hoffman
SENATE MEMBERS ABSENT
All Senate members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 22
Relating to a diverse community; condemning a recent racially
motivated attack; and requesting the Municipality of Anchorage
police department to conduct a conclusive investigation and to
take rapid action against the perpetrators.
- HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HJR 22
SHORT TITLE:DIVERSE COMMUNITY/CONDEMN HATE CRIMES
SPONSOR(S): RLS BY REQUEST OF THE HOUSE
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
03/16/01 0626 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
03/16/01 0626 (H) RLS
03/20/01 (H) RLS AT 5:00 PM BUTROVICH 205
03/20/01 (H) <Recessed to a call of the
CO-CHAIR >
03/20/01 (H) MINUTE(RLS)
03/21/01 (H) RLS AT 4:30 PM Speaker's
Chamber
03/21/01 (H) Moved CSHJR 22(RLS) Out of
Committee
03/21/01 (H) MINUTE(RLS)
03/22/01 0678 (H) RLS RPT CS(RLS) NT 4DP
03/22/01 0678 (H) DP: PORTER, KOHRING, JOULE,
KOTT
03/22/01 0679 (H) FN1: ZERO(H.RLS)
03/22/01 0693 (H) RULES TO CALENDAR 3/22/01
03/22/01 0693 (H) READ THE SECOND TIME
03/22/01 0693 (H) RLS CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT
03/22/01 0693 (H) CHANGED SPONSOR UNAN CONSENT
03/22/01 0693 (H) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING
UNAN CONSENT
03/22/01 0693 (H) READ THE THIRD TIME CSHJR
22(RLS)
03/22/01 0694 (H) PASSED Y38 E2
03/22/01 0698 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S)
03/22/01 0698 (H) VERSION: CSHJR 22(RLS)
03/23/01 0782 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
03/23/01 0782 (S) STA
04/05/01 0956 (S) STA RPT SCS 4DP SAME TITLE
04/05/01 0956 (S) DP: THERRIAULT, PHILLIPS,
PEARCE, DAVIS
04/05/01 0956 (S) FN1: ZERO(H.RLS)
04/05/01 (S) STA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 211
04/05/01 (S) Moved Out of Committee
MINUTE(STA)
04/09/01 (S) RLS AT 10:45 AM FAHRENKAMP
203
04/09/01 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
04/10/01 1047 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR 4/10/01
04/10/01 1051 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME
04/10/01 1052 (S) HELD IN SECOND READING TO
4/11 CALENDAR
04/11/01 1074 (S) STA SCS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT
04/11/01 1074 (S) AM NO 1 FAILED Y7 N11 E1 A1
04/11/01 1075 (S) AM NO 2 NOT OFFERED
04/11/01 1075 (S) AM NO 3 ADOPTED Y13 N6 E1
04/11/01 1076 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING
UNAN CONSENT
04/11/01 1076 (S) READ THIRD TIME SCS CSHJR
22(STA) AM S
04/11/01 1077 (S) PASSED Y16 N2 E1 A1
04/11/01 1077 (S) WILKEN NOTICE OF
RECONSIDERATION
04/12/01 1095 (S) RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD
READING
04/12/01 1095 (S) PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y17
N1 E2
04/12/01 1097 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H) AS AMENDED
04/12/01 1097 (S) VERSION: SCS CSHJR 22(STA) AM
S
04/17/01 1008 (H) HELD UNDER UNFINISHED
BUSINESS
04/17/01 1019 (H) FAILED CONCUR (S) AM Y5 N30
E4 A1
04/18/01 1160 (S) FAILED RECEDE (S) AM Y8 N11
E1
04/18/01 1161 (S) CONFERENCE COMMITTEE
APPOINTED
04/18/01 1161 (S) *WARD, KELLY, HOFFMAN
04/19/01 1059 (H) CONFERENCE COMMITTEE
APPOINTED
04/19/01 1059 (H) *JAMES, WILLIAMS, BERKOWITZ
04/20/01 (H) 022 AT 4:00 PM BELTZ 211
WITNESS REGISTER
No witnesses to record
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 01-1, SIDE A
Number 001
CO-CHAIR JEANNETTE JAMES called the Conference Committee on HJR
22 to order at 4:07 p.m. Representatives James and Berkowitz
and Senators Ward and Kelly were present at the call to order.
Representative Williams and Senator Davis arrived as the meeting
was in progress.
HJR 22-DIVERSE COMMUNITY/CONDEMN HATE CRIMES
CO-CHAIR JAMES announced that the only order of business before
the committee would be HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 22, Relating
to a diverse community; condemning a recent racially motivated
attack; and requesting the Municipality of Anchorage police
department to conduct a conclusive investigation and to take
rapid action against the perpetrators. [Before the committee
are SCS CSHJR 22(STA) am S and CSHJR 22(RLS).]
Number 0020
CO-CHAIR WARD reviewed a document prepared by his staff. This
document outlines the changes by the Senate. He informed the
committee of the following changes to CSHJR 22(RLS), which are
encompassed in SCS CSHJR 22(STA) am S:
Page 1, line 6, "incredibly" was deleted.
Page 1, lines 8-9, "WHEREAS" clause was deleted.
Page 1, lines 12-13, "WHEREAS" clause was deleted.
Page 1, line 15, "to build bridges with the" was
replaced with "an understanding with the".
Page 1, line 15, before "discrimination", "unlawful"
was inserted.
Page 2, line 4, "and business" was deleted.
Page 2, line 6, The "WHEREAS" clause was changed to
read as follows:
"WHEREAS federal law 18 U.S.C. 245 makes it
unlawful by the commission of certain acts to
prevent a person from exercising a "federally
protected right" when the assailant is motivated
by bias based on race, religion, national origin,
or color;"
Page 2, lines 16 and 17, before "discrimination",
"unlawful" was inserted.
Page 2, line 20, before "unacceptable", "reprehensible
and" was inserted.
Page 2, line 22, "continue its" was replaced with
"complete a".
Page 2, lines 25-29, was deleted.
Page 2, lines 30-31, was deleted.
Page 3, line 3, "racism and" was replaced with
"unlawful".
Number 0424
CO-CHAIR WARD related his understanding that insertion of the
word "unlawful" by the Senate drew much attention in the House.
He informed the committee that he was in support of that
amendment because of his belief that there are "lawful and legal
and appropriate forms of discrimination." Therefore, he wanted
to differentiate between the aforementioned forms of
discrimination and unlawful discrimination. For example, he
informed the committee that as an Alaskan Native and Vietnam
combat veteran, he is eligible for 160 acres of land. However,
those [Alaskans] that were in Vietnam that [are not Alaska
Native] aren't eligible for such. Co-Chair Ward characterized
the aforementioned example as appropriate and lawful
discrimination because he wasn't in Alaska to sign up for the
land allotment with the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Co-Chair
Ward noted other forms of lawful discrimination such as being
the membership of a Native corporation or eligibility for
longevity.
CO-CHAIR JAMES related her belief that the objection to the
insertion of "unlawful" was that this case was, because it was
racial discrimination, lawful and by inserting "unlawful" it
seemed to draw attention to the fact that maybe it wasn't.
Number 0617
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ said that his interpretation of
"unlawful" is tepid because when one criticizes "unlawful
racism" one is criticizing things that are already illegal.
Furthermore, one of the definitions of discrimination is: "A
prejudiced act." One of the definitions of prejudice is: "An
irrational hatred or suspicion of a specific group, race, or
religion." Therefore, [prejudice] is what is being condemned
and it doesn't have to be illegal to condemn it.
CO-CHAIR WARD returned to his example that because he is an
Alaska Native and Vietnam combat veteran, he is allowed 160
acres. He asked if that is discrimination.
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS remarked that Co-Chair Ward is correct
to some extent in that there are many types of discrimination.
However, HJR 22 relates to a specific racially motivated attack.
Therefore, he suggested creating another resolution if the
desire is to address the other types of discrimination.
CO-CHAIR JAMES asked what Representative Williams thought about
deleting "unlawful" and replacing it with "racial".
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ pointed out that doing such is beyond
the ability of this conference committee.
CO-CHAIR JAMES agreed, but noted that such [powers] could be
requested.
Number 0800
SENATOR DAVIS emphasized that comparing Co-Chair Ward's example
to this resolution is like comparing apples and oranges because
the situation before the committee is a racial incident.
Senator Davis interpreted the insertion of "unlawful" to mean
that one can do anything to anyone as long as it's not illegal.
Why would one allow that concept or message to be sent to
children, she asked. She said that is the only problem she has
with [SCS CSHJR 22(STA) am S].
CO-CHAIR JAMES announced that she is personally opposed to any
form of discrimination. However, there is a lot of
discrimination that isn't illegal. Therefore, she felt that the
type of discrimination being addressed in HJR 22 should be
defined. She agreed that "unlawful" takes the focus and thus
shouldn't be included; however, she expressed the need to have
some [language] in order to indicate that the legislation speaks
to a particular type of discrimination.
Number 0930
SENATOR KELLY recalled that Co-Chair James felt that "racial
discrimination" would be appropriate. However, he said that he
didn't believe that language would "get to it" because there is
racial discrimination in Alaska as well. For example, non-
Natives can't belong to a Native corporation. Senator Kelly
remarked, "The list of things that we give to people in this
state is, it's exhaustive with how we discriminate racially."
Therefore, the choices are to not discriminate at all or not to
racially discriminate, which is problematic due to the lawful
racial discrimination that already exists. He felt that the
choice [has to be] "unlawful discrimination" because although
the act speaks to a specific incident, the language is very
broad.
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS maintained that a non-Native can be a
shareholder of a Native corporation, although a non-Native can't
vote. Representative Williams turned to the resolution and
asked if the desire is to send a strong message or to water it
down.
SENATOR KELLY answered that he wanted to send a strong message.
CO-CHAIR JAMES asked if this incident would be just as bad if a
group such as women or elderly people was targeted. She asked
if this is worse because Natives were targeted.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said that regardless of the race, this
incident would have been bad and just as important [to address].
Representative Davis related her understanding that there was no
debate in the House regarding only having "discrimination"
language. However, now some seem to have concerns with the
language.
CO-CHAIR WARD returned to Representative Williams' comments and
remarked that everyone has felt discrimination. However, he
said that he has a problem with [language] that isn't
interpreted. Although he believes the three youths will be
prosecuted, he was interested in enhancing existing laws to make
[discrimination] more difficult. Co-Chair Ward reiterated his
stance that he couldn't support this resolution without the term
"unlawful." However, he would consider legislation that
addresses name calling, et cetera.
Number 1327
CO-CHAIR JAMES said that she agreed with Senator Davis. Co-
Chair James related her belief that this incident was an act of
discrimination because a particular group was targeted.
Furthermore, the crime would remain the same regardless of the
group targeted. However, there is a another element that has
been discussed lately and that is hate crime. A hate crime
involves the intent or mindset. Co-Chair James related her
understanding that intent does make a difference in regard to
the outcome. Therefore, she felt that this incident was worse
because a specific group was targeted based on the groups race,
but she wasn't sure how to get at that degree of difference.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ reiterated the definition of prejudice,
which is the definition of discrimination and said, "To me, what
discrimination is, is quite clear and if we're going to condemn
it, lets condemn it."
CO-CHAIR JAMES disagreed and said that Representative Berkowitz
is using a contemporary meaning of discrimination. She
emphasized that the word discriminate means to choose between
things.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ said that he didn't want to discuss the
etymology of words. However, the definition that makes sense in
this context is the definition of discrimination that he read
earlier.
Number 1499
SENATOR KELLY pointed out that when words are unclear, modifiers
are used to further clarify the meaning of the word. Therefore,
"unlawful" serves that purpose.
CO-CHAIR WARD reiterated that the only way he will support this
resolution is with the insertion of "unlawful." He remarked
that there should be added emphasis on this incident because the
three youths were bigots who sought a particular race to attack.
"If our laws are not strong enough to take care of that, then
... that's our fault," he said Co-Chair Ward also reiterated
his lack of trust in the public interpreting the laws.
CO-CHAIR JAMES inquired as to the committee's opinion of using
the word "prejudice."
SENATOR DAVIS clarified that she isn't saying that Senators Ward
and Kelly are wrong for wanting the word "unlawful." However,
she felt both should be held accountable for what happens with
this resolution. She expressed [disbelief] that the legislature
would get "hung up" on a simple resolution simply because of a
lack of trust in the system to say and do what is right and
wrong. However, she emphasized that there is a difference
between special privileges and discrimination.
SENATOR DAVIS remarked that this resolution has already been
watered down enough. However, she expressed the need to work on
it. Perhaps the fifth "WHEREAS" could read as follows:
"WHEREAS Anchorage has a responsibility to take a leadership
role in creating a climate of tolerance" and insert additional
language to make the statement stronger.
CO-CHAIR JAMES said that she appreciated Senator Davis'
direction because the chore is to develop something that both
sides can agree upon. Therefore, she requested that committee
members think [about a language change]. However, she felt that
powers of free conference would have to be obtained first.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ disagreed because he felt this could be
put to a vote.
CO-CHAIR JAMES announced that she wouldn't do that.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ pointed out, "The choice would belong
to any member of this committee who made a motion."
CO-CHAIR WARD requested that the avenues of fixing the
[language] within the document or creating a new document not be
thwarted.
Number 1783
CO-CHAIR JAMES explained her belief that this resolution can't
be fixed [under the committee's current powers] because
"unlawful" is not acceptable by the House. Co-Chair James said,
"I'm not willing to put a motion on the floor and get the
sufficient amount of votes and get out of here. I want to have
six of us agree on something." She related her belief that it
can happen.
CO-CHAIR WARD referred to the seventh "WHEREAS" that says that
it's illegal to commit a crime. He pointed out that a crime is
already illegal and asked if there is agreement on that point.
He also asked if this body should be putting out a statement
that says "makes it illegal to commit a crime".
CO-CHAIR JAMES pointed out that there is already agreement on
the seventh "WHEREAS." She asked if the "unlawful" language is
the only place where there is disagreement.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ replied no and directed attention to
the fact that the Senate deleted the next to the last "FURTHER
RESOLVED." That provision seems to be a fairly straightforward
declaration of intent by the legislature. Therefore, he
inquired as to why that was removed.
CO-CHAIR JAMES identified the issues needing attention as the
"unlawful" language and the fourth "FURTHER RESOLVED."
Number 1947
SENATOR DAVIS informed the committee that the Senate State
Affairs Committee determined that the resolution should be more
precise and thus a new committee substitute (CS) was drafted.
That new CS didn't have the fourth "FURTHER RESOLVED".
Therefore, the resolution that came before the Senate floor
didn't have that provision.
SENATOR KELLY said that the fourth "FURTHER RESOLVED" was
probably removed because that language is traditionally
"WHEREAS" language.
CO-CHAIR JAMES pointed out that the language has a pledge.
SENATOR DAVIS informed the committee that there was no item-by-
item debate by the Senate State Affairs Committee.
CO-CHAIR JAMES remarked that the language seems innocuous.
SENATOR KELLY indicated that the language was probably deleted
due to the "fair and equitable treatment for all who ... visit
Alaska" language. Those who visit the state aren't treated fair
and equitable because they are charged different rates for their
licenses and they don't receive a dividend. He noted that this
is speculation.
Number 2068
CO-CHAIR JAMES asked if the committee could agree to put the
fourth "FURTHER RESOLVED" back in.
CO-CHAIR WARD said that although he didn't see a problem with
returning that language, he wasn't prepared to vote to do so.
He expressed the need to determine whether someone had a
compelling reason for its deletion.
CO-CHAIR JAMES announced her belief that the committee would not
be able to come to consensus today because in order to do so the
committee would need [the appropriate powers] to change the
language. Therefore, she expressed the desire to pursue the
language that would bring the committee to consensus.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ remarked that the longer the delay on
the issue, the more it looks as if the legislature is
equivocating on this issue.
CO-CHAIR JAMES opposed Representative Berkowitz' comment.
SENATOR KELLY interjected that a resolution really resolves
nothing.
CO-CHAIR JAMES agreed. However, this resolution was created so
that the legislature would recognize this horrible act. She
didn't believe there was a person in the legislature who didn't
believe this was a horrible act. Therefore, she felt the
legislature should be able to verbalize it. Although she did
believe the committee could come together, she didn't believe it
could be done with existing language. Therefore, she was
willing to request changes in the language if she knew there was
something to go to. Co-Chair James related her belief, in
regard to the fourth "FURTHER RESOLVED," that everyone should be
treated fair and equitable. The argument that visitors aren't
treated fairly and equitably doesn't hold water in her opinion.
Number 2180
CO-CHAIR WARD expressed the need to develop a resolution that
condemns the actions of these three youths. Co-Chair Ward said
that he was baffled with the conflict over this resolution.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ expressed the need for this resolution
to do more than condemn.
CO-CHAIR JAMES interjected that [condemning] is about all that
can be done with a resolution.
CO-CHAIR WARD interjected that passage of a law would be
required if the desire is to do something else.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ refuted Co-Chair Ward's comment and
pointed out that the resolution could express the need for [the
legislature] to assert leadership and other methods of
intolerance could be rejected. Representative Berkowitz
mentioned that pursuant to taking this action [legislators]
received mail from a white supremacist group. Therefore, he
didn't believe the way to respond to such is to back off and
address one small incident.
TAPE 01-1, SIDE B
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ continued by saying that once someone
bully's him, it is appropriate to standup to that person with
clear and unambiguous language. Therefore, that's what should
be done.
CO-CHAIR WARD agreed, but noted that [CSHJR 22(RLS)] is not
that.
Number 2220
SENATOR KELLY said that is why the term "unlawful" is being
discussed because without it, the language is ambiguous.
Furthermore, if the desire is to do more than condemn an act or
future commissions of that act, then it will probably [require]
more than a resolution. There will be resistance to a broader
statement.
CO-CHAIR JAMES remarked that there should have been a resolve
that expressed sorrow for the victims of this attack.
CO-CHAIR JAMES requested that committee members attempt to
develop language without using "unlawful discrimination." She
proposed requesting special powers of free conference on Monday
so that the committee could meet Monday afternoon.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ announced that he was opposed to going
to special powers of free conference until more work has been
done.
CO-CHAIR WARD said that he wasn't willing to give up the term
"discrimination." Furthermore, he said that there should be a
resolution and a law about this.
SENATOR DAVIS pointed out that Senator Lincoln has such
legislation and the governor's office is working on several
laws. Therefore, that isn't the problem. Senator Davis
remarked that she didn't see that the committee is making
progress and thus she inquired as to why the Co-Chair would
choose not to vote on this matter if someone wanted to do so.
Number 2097
CO-CHAIR JAMES stressed that she is embarrassed that such a
wrong act happened in Anchorage and the legislature can't put it
on paper and agree. She acknowledged that there is the option
of letting this resolution die, but she felt that would make the
legislature look worse. Therefore, Co-Chair James begged the
committee to come together to develop something that it could
agree upon.
CO-CHAIR WARD noted his agreement with Co-Chair James' request.
He then made a motion to adjourn.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the
Conference Committee on HJR 22 meeting was adjourned at 4:48
p.m.
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