Legislature(2005 - 2006)
05/12/2005 03:37 PM Joint UAL
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB130 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
CONFERENCE COMMITTEE ON HB 130
May 12, 2005
3:37 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Tom Wagoner, Chair
Senator Gary Wilken
Senator Johnny Ellis
Representative Jay Ramras, Chair
Representative Bruce Weyhrauch
Representative Woodie Salmon
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 130
"An Act granting certain state land to the University of Alaska
and establishing the university research forest; and providing
for an effective date."
- HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 130
SHORT TITLE: UNIVERSITY LAND GRANT/STATE FOREST
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
02/07/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/07/05 (H) RES, FIN
02/09/05 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
02/09/05 (H) Heard & Held
02/09/05 (H) MINUTE(RES)
02/14/05 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
02/14/05 (H) Heard & Held
02/14/05 (H) MINUTE(RES)
02/16/05 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
02/16/05 (H) Heard & Held
02/16/05 (H) MINUTE(RES)
03/02/05 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/02/05 (H) Heard & Held
03/02/05 (H) MINUTE(RES)
03/04/05 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/04/05 (H) Moved CSHB 130(RES) Out of Committee
03/04/05 (H) MINUTE(RES)
03/09/05 (H) RES RPT CS(RES) NT 4DP 3NR
03/09/05 (H) DP: LEDOUX, CRAWFORD, SEATON, RAMRAS;
03/09/05 (H) NR: GATTO, ELKINS, SAMUELS
04/09/05 (H) FIN AT 11:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE 519
04/09/05 (H) Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled
04/12/05 (H) FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519
04/12/05 (H) Moved CSHB 130(FIN) Out of Committee
04/12/05 (H) MINUTE(FIN)
04/13/05 (H) FIN RPT CS(FIN) NT 4DP 5NR
04/13/05 (H) DP: HAWKER, WEYHRAUCH, KELLY, FOSTER;
04/13/05 (H) NR: HOLM, STOLTZE, MOSES, MEYER,
CHENAULT
04/13/05 (H) LETTER OF INTENT WITH FIN REPORT
04/20/05 (H) BEFORE THE HOUSE
04/21/05 (H) BEFORE THE HOUSE
04/21/05 (H) BEFORE THE HOUSE
04/22/05 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S)
04/22/05 (H) VERSION: CSHB 130(FIN) AM
04/25/05 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
04/25/05 (S) FIN
04/28/05 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532
04/28/05 (S) Heard & Held
04/28/05 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
05/02/05 (S) FIN AT 6:00 PM SENATE FINANCE 532
05/02/05 (S) Public testimony may be limited to 3
min.
05/08/05 (S) FIN AT 0:00 AM
05/08/05 (S) Moved SCS CSHB 130(FIN) Out of
Committee
05/08/05 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
05/09/05 (S) FIN RPT SCS 2DP 1DNP 3NR SAME
TITLE
05/09/05 (S) HOUSE LETTER OF INTENT WITH FIN REPORT
05/09/05 (S) DP: WILKEN, GREEN
05/09/05 (S) DNP: STEDMAN
05/09/05 (S) NR: HOFFMAN, OLSON, DYSON
05/10/05 (S) VERSION: SCS CSHB 130(FIN)
05/11/05 (H) CONFERENCE COMMITTEE APPOINTED
05/11/05 (H) RAMRAS (CHAIR), WEYHRAUCH, SALMON
05/11/05 (S) RECEDE MESSAGE READ
05/11/05 (S) CONFERENCE COMMITTEE APPOINTED
05/11/05 (S) WAGONER (CHAIR), WILKEN, ELLIS
05/11/05 (H) SPECIAL SESSION BILL - SEE H. JOURNAL
P. 1962
05/11/05 (S) SPECIAL SESSION BILL - SEE S. JOURNAL
P. 1606
05/12/05 (H) UAL AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 124
WITNESS REGISTER
DICK MYLIUS, Deputy Director
Division of Mining, Land and Water
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding HB 130.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR JAY RAMRAS called the Conference Committee on HB 130 to
order at 3:37:15 PM. Representatives Salmon, Ramras, and
Weyhrauch and Senators Wilken, Wagoner, and Ellis were present
at the call to order.
HB 130-UNIVERSITY LAND GRANT/STATE FOREST
CHAIR RAMRAS announced that the only order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 130 "An Act granting certain state land to the
University of Alaska and establishing the university research
forest; and providing for an effective date." [Before the
committee were CSHB 130(FIN)am and SCS CSHB 130(FIN).]
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH moved that the conference committee
accept HB 130 (FIN)am as the conference report.
CHAIR WAGONER objected.
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Salmon, Ramras, and
Weyhrauch and Senator Ellis voted in favor, and Senators Wilken
and Wagoner voted against it. Therefore, HB 130(FIN)am failed
to become the working document.
CHAIR WAGONER moved that the conference committee accept SCS
CSHB 130(FIN) as the conference report.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH objected.
A roll call vote was taken. Senators Wilken and Wagoner voted
in favor, and Senator Ellis and Representatives Ramras, Salmon
and Weyhrauch voted against it. Therefore, SCS CSHB 130(FIN)
failed to become the working document.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH highlighted a matrix comparing the two
versions of the bill and noting the seven disagreeing
provisions. He requested that he make a motion for each item as
he moves down the list.
SENATOR WAGONER objected, and pointed out that there are two
documents one of which was prepared by the Department of Natural
Resources (DNR).
CHAIR RAMRAS clarified that the "letter-shaped" document was
from DNR, and the landscape document was prepared by his staff.
He suggested working off his document and using the DNR document
as a reference.
3:41:12 PM
CHAIR WAGONER removed his objection.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH said if anyone sees a discrepancy, "we
reserve the right to come back and discuss it at a future date
in case there's something we miss, so that no one's prejudiced
by an omission by going off the two-page document, as opposed to
by the one-page document."
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH said, "The first line deals with
language that ensures the University of Alaska's cooperative
extension service is adequately staffed." He moved the Senate
version [in which the language on page 2, line 23 is deleted].
CHAIR WAGONER objected.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH explained that he added that language
in House Finance so that the university would fill an empty
cooperative extension service position in northern Southeast
Alaska. He said this adds a duty to the Board of Regents that
already falls under their other duties. He said he wanted to
get the university's attention, "and I think I have a good faith
commitment to fill that ... so I don't object to the Senate's
version where that language is out." He said the university
intends to fill the position.
CHAIR WAGONER removed his objection.
There being no objection, the Senate version of item 1 carried.
[The language on page 2, lines 24-25, of CSHB 130(FIN)am will
not be included in the CCS.]
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH moved to adopt the Senate language for
item 2, which limits the size of easements to 25 feet. He asked
for information from DNR.
CHAIR WAGONER objected.
3:44:04 PM
DICK MYLIUS, Deputy Director, Division of Mining, Land and
Water, Department of Natural Resources (DNR), said the standard
easement is a width of 50 feet along the shoreline, which the
state applies whenever it transfers land to a municipality.
Senator Stedman added the language to [SCS CSHB 130(FIN)] to
limit the easement to a 25-foot width, because he thought 50
feet is too wide particularly in Southeast Alaska.
SENATOR ELLIS surmised that the department would view consistent
easement widths as useful.
MR. MYLIUS replied yes, adding that is why 50 feet is in
regulation. The statute allows the commissioner to change it if
the topography lends itself to a smaller or larger easement, he
said.
3:45:14 PM
SENATOR ELLIS concluded then that DNR already has the
flexibility.
MR. MYLIUS agreed, but opined that with large conveyances such
as this, the department doesn't have the ability to view each
parcel for the determination.
3:45:37 PM
SENATOR ELLIS said he could understand Senator Stedman's
concerns about Southeast Alaska, but there are parcels all over
the state.
MR. MYLIUS clarified that it only applies to saltwater, and
Southeast is the only place where there are saltwater parcel
conveyances to the university. He noted that the Kodiak parcel
is on the list to be withdrawn.
SENATOR ELLIS asked if Mr. Mylius presumes an amendment will
pass [eliminating the Kodiak parcel].
MR. MYLIUS said the Kodiak parcel is already out of both bills.
3:46:08 PM
CHAIR WAGONER said in a lot of cases there are bluffs, so the
difference between 25 and 50 feet is considerable.
CHAIR WAGONER removed his objection.
A roll call vote was taken. Senators Wilken and Wagoner and
Representatives Weyhrauch and Ramras voted in favor of adopting
item 2, which limits the size of easements to 25 feet, and
Senator Ellis and Representative Salmon voted against it.
Therefore, item two of SCS CSHB 130(FIN) was adopted [and the
language on page 4, lines 8-10, of SCS CSHB 130(FIN) was
maintained].
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH moved that the committee adopt item 3
of CSHB 130(FIN)am, for which he said he will request limited
powers of free conference.
CHAIR WAGONER objected, and asked if that will be an amendment
from Representative Weyhrauch.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH replied yes, but he said he did not
have it with him.
CHAIR WAGONER removed his objection.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH opined that an objection must be
maintained in order to preserve it for limited free conference.
A roll call vote was taken. Senator Ellis and Representatives
Salmon, Weyhrauch and Ramras voted in favor of adopting item 3
of CSHB 130(FIN)am, and Senator Wilken and Wagoner voted against
it. Therefore, the motion failed.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH inquired as to the meaning of item 4 of
the matrix.
3:49:14 PM
MR. MYLIUS explained that a sentence was added and the word
"such" no longer made sense.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH clarified that item 4 for SCS CSHB
130(FIN) should be deleting "such". He moved item 4 of SCS CSHB
130(FIN). There being no objection, item 4 of SCS CSHB 130(FIN)
was adopted.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH moved that the committee adopt item 5
of SCS CSHB 130(FIN).
CHAIR WAGONER objected.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH explained that this has to do with
additional parcels added in the Petersburg-Wrangell area. In the
House Finance Committee, the provision was added to delete
parcels contingent on borough formation. "The intent was to
spur the use and development of these lands, and to allow
municipalities close to these lands to subsume them into the
borough if they were selected. It's sort of a push-pull
language." He said he has no objection to those additional
parcels being added. It comports with the intent of the bill,
he opined.
SENATOR WILKEN said he couldn't determine how the matrix fits
with the bills.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH said he is talking about Section O of
[SCS CSHB 130(FIN)], which is not clear in the matrix. "Section
O has to do with the borough formation, and it left the House in
one form and ended on line 21 on page 6" whereas the Senate has
it on page 6, line 10 "and increases it to line 27." For
purposes of the minutes and discussion, he opined that it is
clearer to say, "I move that this conference committee adopt the
Senate's version of "O" on page 6 of the Senate bill."
3:52:54 PM
SENATOR WILKEN said, "So on Version P, page 6, ... the motion
would be to adopt the Senate version, lines 10 through 27."
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH said that is his motion.
3:53:07 PM
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH said if this conference meets later and
finds something that the committee has missed, "I think we've
all reserved the right to come back and discuss it without
prejudice." He said the committee is not relying on the matrix
completely.
3:53:46 PM
CHAIR WAGONER removed his objection.
CHAIR RAMRAS asked, "Is there an objection to adopting Section
O of the P Version, on page 6. Seeing no objection, number 5 is
adopted with intention of returning--is that right?"
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH said, "No, Senate Version on "O" is
adopted without returning."
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH moved to adopt the House version of the
remaining section [which is on page 6, lines 16-19, of CSHB
130(FIN) am]. He pointed out that a new subsection (q) was
added by the Senate, and therefore he moved to delete that and
[request] limited powers of free conference on that matter. He
clarified that he was speaking of page 7, line 3-15, subsection
(q) of SCS CSHB 130(FIN).
CHAIR WAGONER objected.
A roll call vote was taken. Senator Ellis and Representatives
Salmon, Weyhrauch and Ramras voted in favor adopting [item 5 of
CSHB 130(FIN)am], and Senators Wilken and Wagoner voted against
it. Therefore, the motion failed.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH said, "I move that the conference
committee sign a report ... asking the respective bodies to
provide them with ... limited powers of free conference on the
two issues that we have not agreed upon. And ask that we meet
as soon as possible to resolve that."
CHAIR RAMRAS inquired as to the desire with item 7.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH withdrew his motion, and moved that the
committee adopt item 7 of CSHB 130(FIN)am, pending some
description because he is not sure of what it means. "So I will
move the House version, which doesn't contain that," he said.
CHAIR WAGONER objected.
SENATOR WILKEN inquired as to what that provision does.
CHAIR RAMRAS opined, "I think we want to go the other way on
that."
3:57:01 PM
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH said the motion is the House version,
which contains the language while the Senate version does not.
He explained that the language was added to comport with the
House letter of intent, which related that if land isn't going
to be offered to a municipality, it's to be offered to a nearby
nonprofit that has to use the land in the same method as it was
used historically. The language provide the DNR the option, he
said. Furthermore, it is more in line with the House's intent
to get the land into private hands without an intent provision.
The provision specifies that when the department does its public
notice on operative sales, perhaps the land could be offered to
a land trust, the Discovery Foundation, et cetera, he explained.
CHAIR RAMRAS announced his opposition to adopt the House
language because of his understanding that there is no such
thing as a second right of refusal. Furthermore, it makes it
more difficult for DNR to dispose of land, he said.
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON expressed concern with the reference to a
nonprofit organization because there are a lot of such
organizations. He asked if the language specified to which
organizations the land could be sold.
4:00:12 PM
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH explained that [current] statute would
have to be reviewed for the definition of a nonprofit. He posed
an example of a group that might use a parcel for the historic
use of obtaining yellow cedar for building totemic items. He
added, "There are potentially hundreds of organizations who
could apply, and it goes in the public notice and if DNR wants
to offer it to them, they may." He noted that a lot of people
complained about the lack of public notice [for conveyances].
4:01:24 PM
CHAIR RAMRAS said, "Unfortunately this could also include
somebody like the Sierra Club."
CHAIR WAGONER explained that the Senate "took care of it with a
letter of intent." He said he is not sure how a court would
interpret it. "We intended for this not to be placed in the
hands of nonprofits because we want this land out in the
public's hands; we want this land to be developed," he stressed.
Furthermore, the desire was that if boroughs are formed, the
land would be part of the tax base.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH asked if it was a Senate Resources
Standing Committee letter of intent, and requested the ability
to review it.
4:02:41 PM
SENATOR WILKEN said he is not in favor of the language because
the purposed of the legislation is to create sustained value for
the university. He expressed concern about any entity using the
land for noneconomic purposes. If a municipality doesn't want
it, the university should use its resources to find someone that
can generate income. [The House language] seems to indicate
that such an entity could be a nonprofit, which he interpreted
to mean nonincome. Therefore, Senator Wilken noted his strong
support of the Senate's lack of language on this matter.
A roll call vote was taken. Senator Ellis and Representatives
Salmon and Weyhrauch voted in favor adopting item 7 of CSHB
130(FIN)am, and Representative Ramras and Senators Wilken and
Wagoner voted against it. Therefore, the motion failed.
4:04:23 PM
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH moved that committee ask the respective
bodies for limited powers of free conference to deal with items
3, 6, and 7. There being no objection, it was so ordered.
[HB 130 was held over.]
ADJOURNMENT
The Conference Committee on HB 130 recessed the meeting at 4:06
p.m. to a call of the chair. The meeting reconvened on May 13,
2005.
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