Legislature(2005 - 2006)
05/13/2005 05:09 PM Joint 141
| Audio | Topic |
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| Start | |
| SB141 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
FREE CONFERENCE COMMITTEE ON SB 141
May 13, 2005
5:09 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Bert Stedman, Chair
Senator Gary Wilken
Senator Kim Elton
Representative Mike Hawker
Representative Mike Kelly
Representative Beth Kerttula
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 141(FIN)
"An Act relating to the teachers' and public employees'
retirement systems and creating defined contribution and health
reimbursement plans for members of the teachers' retirement
system and the public employees' retirement system who are first
hired after July 1, 2005; relating to university retirement
programs; establishing the Alaska Retirement Management Board to
replace the Alaska State Pension Investment Board, the Alaska
Teachers' Retirement Board, and the Public Employees' Retirement
Board; adding appeals of the decisions of the administrator of
the teachers' and public employees' retirement systems to the
jurisdiction of the office of administrative hearings; providing
for nonvested members of the teachers' retirement system defined
benefit plans to transfer into the teachers' retirement system
defined contribution plan and for nonvested members of the
public employees' retirement system defined benefit plans to
transfer into the public employees' retirement system defined
contribution plan; providing for political subdivisions and
public organizations to request to participate in the public
employees' defined contribution retirement plan; and providing
for an effective date."
MOVED FCCS SB 141 OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE CS FOR CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 141(FIN) am H
"An Act relating to the teachers' and public employees'
retirement systems and creating defined contribution and health
reimbursement plans for members of the teachers' retirement
system and the public employees' retirement system who are first
hired after July 1, 2005; relating to university retirement
programs; establishing the Alaska Retirement Management Board to
replace the Alaska State Pension Investment Board, the Alaska
Teachers' Retirement Board, and the Public Employees' Retirement
Board; adding appeals of the decisions of the administrator of
the teachers' and public employees' retirement systems to the
jurisdiction of the office of administrative hearings; providing
for nonvested members of the teachers' retirement system defined
benefit plans to transfer into the teachers' retirement system
defined contribution plan and for nonvested members of the
public employees' retirement system defined benefit plans to
transfer into the public employees' retirement system defined
contribution plan; providing for political subdivisions and
public organizations to request to participate in the public
employees' defined contribution retirement plan; and providing
for an effective date."
MOVED FCCS SB 141 OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 141
SHORT TITLE: PUBLIC EMPLOYEE/TEACHER RETIREMENT/BOARDS
SPONSOR(s): FINANCE
03/14/05 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
03/14/05 (S) FIN
03/16/05 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532
03/16/05 (S) Heard & Held
03/16/05 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
03/17/05 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532
03/17/05 (S) Heard & Held
03/17/05 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
03/21/05 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532
03/21/05 (S) Heard & Held
03/21/05 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
03/22/05 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532
03/22/05 (S) Heard & Held
03/22/05 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
03/23/05 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532
03/23/05 (S) Heard & Held
03/23/05 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
03/29/05 (S) FIN AT 4:30 PM SENATE FINANCE 532
03/29/05 (S) Heard & Held
03/29/05 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
03/30/05 (H) FIN AT 9:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE 519
03/30/05 (S) Heard & Held
03/30/05 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
03/31/05 (H) FIN AT 9:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE 519
03/31/05 (S) Heard & Held
03/31/05 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
04/01/05 (H) FIN AT 9:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE 519
04/01/05 (S) Heard & Held
04/01/05 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
04/02/05 (S) FIN AT 10:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532
04/02/05 (S) Heard & Held
04/02/05 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
04/03/05 (S) FIN AT 10:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532
04/03/05 (S) Heard & Held
04/03/05 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
04/04/05 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532
04/04/05 (S) Scheduled But Not Heard
04/05/05 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532
04/05/05 (S) Heard & Held
04/05/05 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
04/06/05 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532
04/06/05 (S) Moved CSSB 141(FIN) Out of Committee
04/06/05 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
04/08/05 (S) FIN RPT CS 5DP 1DNP 1AM
NEW TITLE
04/08/05 (S) DP: GREEN, WILKEN, BUNDE, DYSON,
STEDMAN
04/08/05 (S) DNP: HOFFMAN
04/08/05 (S) AM: OLSON
04/12/05 (S) ENGROSSED
04/14/05 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
04/14/05 (S) VERSION: CSSB 141(FIN)
04/14/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
04/14/05 (H) STA, FIN
04/14/05 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
04/14/05 (H) <Pending Referral>
04/16/05 (H) STA AT 9:30 AM CAPITOL 106
04/16/05 (H) <Bill Hearing Canceled>
04/19/05 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
04/19/05 (H) Heard & Held
04/19/05 (H) MINUTE(STA)
04/20/05 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
04/20/05 (H) Moved HCS CSSB 141(STA) Out of
Committee
04/20/05 (H) MINUTE(STA)
04/21/05 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
04/21/05 (H) <Bill Hearing Canceled>
04/22/05 (H) STA RPT HCS(STA) 1DP 5NR
04/22/05 (H) DP: SEATON;
04/22/05 (H) NR: LYNN, GATTO, GRUENBERG, ELKINS,
RAMRAS
04/23/05 (H) FIN AT 10:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE 519
04/23/05 (H) Heard & Held
04/23/05 (H) MINUTE(FIN)
04/28/05 (H) FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519
04/28/05 (H) Heard & Held
04/28/05 (H) MINUTE(FIN)
04/30/05 (H) FIN AT 2:00 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519
04/30/05 (H) Heard & Held
04/30/05 (H) MINUTE(FIN)
05/01/05 (H) FIN AT 1:00 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519
05/01/05 (H) Moved HCS CSSB 141(FIN) Out of
Committee
05/01/05 (H) MINUTE(FIN)
05/02/05 (H) FIN RPT HCS(FIN) 2DP 5NR 2AM
(FORTHCOMING HCS)
05/02/05 (H) DP: KELLY, FOSTER;
05/02/05 (H) NR: JOULE, STOLTZE, MOSES, MEYER,
CHENAULT;
05/02/05 (H) AM: HAWKER, WEYHRAUCH
05/02/05 (H) OBJECTION TO REFERRAL TO RULES
05/02/05 (H) OBJECTION TO REFERRAL TO RULES
WITHDRAWN
05/02/05 (H) RETURNED TO FIN COMMITTEE
05/02/05 (H) FIN RPT HCS(FIN) 3DP 4NR 1AM
(FORTHCOMING HCS)
05/02/05 (H) DP: FOSTER, KELLY, CHENAULT;
05/02/05 (H) NR: HOLM, STOLTZE, MOSES, MEYER;
05/02/05 (H) AM: HAWKER
05/02/05 (H) OBJECTION TO FISCAL ANALYSIS WITH
FINANCE RPT
05/02/05 (H) REPLACE FISCAL ANALYSIS FAILED Y15 N25
05/02/05 (H) FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519
05/02/05 (H) Moved HCS CSSB 141(FIN) Out of
Committee
05/02/05 (H) MINUTE(FIN)
05/03/05 (H) HCS(FIN) NT RECEIVED
05/03/05 (H) MOVED TO BOTTOM OF CALENDAR
05/03/05 (H) BEFORE THE HOUSE
05/03/05 (H) MOTION TO DIVIDE AM NO 3 NOT IN ORDER
05/03/05 (H) ADJOURNED TO 5/4
05/05/05 (H) BEFORE THE HOUSE
05/06/05 (H) ENGROSSED
05/07/05 (H) VERSION: HCS CSSB 141(FIN) AM H
05/07/05 (S) CONCURRENCE MESSAGE READ AND HELD
05/07/05 (S) CONFERENCE COMMITTEE APPOINTED
05/07/05 (S) GREEN (CHAIR), SEEKINS, OLSON
05/07/05 (H) RECEDE MESSAGE
05/07/05 (H) CONFERENCE COMMITTEE APPOINTED
05/07/05 (H) SEATON, WEYHRAUCH, CRAWFORD
05/08/05 (S) LIMITED POWERS FREE CONFERENCE GRANTED
05/08/05 (H) LIMITED POWERS FREE CONFERENCE GRANTED
05/09/05 (S) CONFERENCE COMMITTEE DISCHARGED
05/09/05 (S) FREE CONFERENCE COMMITTEE APPOINTED
05/09/05 (S) STEDMAN (CHAIR), WILKEN, ELTON
05/09/05 (H) SPECIAL SESSION BILL - SEE H. JOURNAL
PAGE 1854
05/09/05 (H) CONFERENCE COMMITTEE DISCHARGED
05/09/05 (H) FREE CONFERENCE COMMITTEE APPOINTED
05/09/05 (H) KELLY, HAWKER, KERTTULA
05/09/05 (S) SPECIAL SESSION BILL - SEE S. JOURNAL
PAGE 1493
05/10/05 (H) 141 AT 2:30 PM SENATE FINANCE 532
05/10/05 (H) PUBLIC EMPLOYEE/TEACHER
RETIREMENT/BOARDS
05/11/05 (H) 141 AT 10:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532
05/11/05 (H) -- Meeting Canceled --
05/11/05 (S) 141 AT 6:00 PM SENATE FINANCE 532
05/11/05 (S) -- Meeting Postponed to 5/12/05 --
05/12/05 (H) 141 AT 8:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532
05/12/05 (H) -- Postponed to 5/13/05 at 9:00 am --
05/12/05 (S) 141 AT 6:00 PM SENATE FINANCE 532
05/12/05 (S) -- Meeting Delayed to 05/13/05 --
05/13/05 (H) 141 AT 9:15 AM SENATE FINANCE 532
05/13/05 (S) 141 AT 5:15 PM SENATE FINANCE 532
WITNESS REGISTER
Traci Carpenter
Staff to Senator Green
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Explained fiscal notes for SB 141
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR BERT STEDMAN called the Free Conference Committee on SB
141 meeting to order at 5:09:35 PM. Present were Representatives
Hawker, Kelly, and Kerttula and Senators Elton, Wilken and
Stedman.
SB 141-PUBLIC EMPLOYEE/TEACHER RETIREMENT/BOARDS
CHAIR STEDMAN announced SB 141 to be up for consideration.
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER said there was no need to redo work
already done on this issue, but item 30 regarding the university
was something he thought they could come to agreement on easily.
The two most contentious issues within the current bill are the
sunset and the plan choice alternative.
5:14:03 PM
He had concerns with the overall direct contribution (DC)
approach; he didn't like the simultaneous dual plan and wanted
to take that off the table now. He also thought the sunset plan
needed a clear decision. It doesn't make sense to make an
agreement and then say it will go away in two years.
The effective date of when employees become involved in the new
DC plan is now July 1, 2005. If they decide that is the
appropriate route to take, this time horizon is too short to
properly implement the plan. Deferring the effective date until
July 1, 2006 will allow time to get more actuarial information
and to look at other things to incorporate in the DC Plan.
Removing the sunset gives certainty to the plan.
5:18:26 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER moved to adopt conceptual Amendment 1.
CONCEPTUAL AMENDMENT 1
OFFERED IN FREE CONFERENCE COMMITTEE
TO: HCS CSSB 141(FIN) am H, version R.A. By Representative
Hawker
Part 1
Effective date: Sections 32,67,79 and 120 of the Act take effect
July 1, 2006.
1. Section 32 is the Defined Contribution Plan under AS 14.25.
2. Section 67 amendments AS 39.30.090 procurement of group
insurance to include the new medical benefits sections of
the Defined Contribution Plans under AS 14.25 and AS 39.25.
3. Section 79 is the new Health Reimbursement Arrangement Plan
for members of the Defined Contribution Plans.
4. Section 120 is the Defined Contribution Plan under AS
39.35.
Legal Services should make all conforming changes to other
sections in the bill that reference sections 32,67,79 and 120.
All other sections of this Act, except for those specified above
and those contained in sections 146 and 147 on page 120, are
effective July 1, 2005.
Part 2
Delete the sunset provision and the employee option to choose
either the DB or DC plans.
Page 115, lines 13-20:
Delete all material.
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.
Part 3
Delete the conditional retroactivity clause. The delayed
effective date of the new Defined Contribution Plans makes the
retroactivity clause unnecessary.
Page 120, lines 20-25:
Delete all material.
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.
Part 4
AS 14.25.540 and AS 39.35.940: Transfer into defined
contribution plan by nonvested members of defined benefit
retirement plan.
Explanation
The language in these sections needs to be clarified so that
only the pre-tax contributions paid by a member into their
individual account under the defined benefit plan and the
associated years of membership service are eligible for transfer
into the defined contribution plan.
This clarification is necessary to ensure the plans maintain
compliance with the federal tax code because after-tax
contributions may not be made into a pre-tax contribution
account.
Legal Services may change or add to the language of AS 14.25.540
and AS 39.35.940 to make this clarification.
CHAIR STEDMAN object for discussion purposes. He asked him to
clarify Part 4.
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER explained that Part 4 clarifies that
current employees who transfer into the defined contribution
plan won't have their pre and post tax contributions mixed up.
He said this is one of several technical issues that will have
to be addressed in the next year.
SENATOR ELTON asked if Part 4 is designed for those people who
may be in the system now, are non-vested, but who may opt to
leave Tier 3 go to the DC plan.
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER replied yes.
SENATOR ELTON objected to amend July 1, 2006 to July 1, 2007. He
thought that 2006 was way too aggressive for moving to a new
plan, especially while lawmakers will be working on fine-tuning
it throughout the year. This kind of a plan was suggested by the
governor of California and he recognized the difficulty of
implementing it over a short period of time and he recommended
that the DC plan begin in 2007.
SENATOR ELTON said that other things need to be done whether or
not this bill passes. One of them is that the state needs to
solicit for a new Mercer contract and a new DeLoit contract,
whether it goes to them or not. Those contracts run out this
year, June 30.
Those are integral to the management of any retirement
system. We won't even have until maybe October, the
newly constituted board that is going to have to make
decisions on what an RFP for those contracts looks
like.
He thought that 2007 may even be too aggressive.
5:23:35 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA supported the amendment to the
amendment, because she sees tax and qualification issues that
will need time to resolve.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLY commented that in two years, nearly a
quarter of the workforce would be replaced. Each of the new
employees in the two-year timeframe would represent an unfunded
liability challenge. He accepted the compromise that one year
would give the legislature to get the new plan completely
fleshed out.
5:25:13 PM
SENATOR WILKEN said he also has heard concerns about the
timeframe. However, his discussions with the department indicate
that implementation of this plan, while challenging, could be
done - absolutely.
CHAIR STEDMAN maintained his objection.
SENATOR ELTON responded that he would not withdraw his
amendment. He said he has confidence in the department, but
wanted to remind people that there is a lot of work to be done.
He appreciated Representative Kelly's comments, but pointed out
whatever they do with this amendment and the bill, they are not
addressing the unfunded liability anyway.
CHAIR STEDMAN asked for a roll call vote. Representative
Kerttula and Senator Elton voted yea; Representatives Hawker,
Representative Kelly, Senator Wilken and Chair Stedman voted
nay; and Amendment 1 to Amendment 1 failed.
CHAIR STEDMAN announced Amendment 1 was before the committee.
5:27:16 PM
SENATOR ELTON said Representative Hawker's comments covered the
elements. He disagreed, though, that this is a defined
contribution bill. "The bill before us is a choice bill. This
amendment makes it a defined contribution bill. That's a
dramatic paradigm shift."
He said the legislature has not yet had a good discussion on
what the net effect of this bill is going to be, for instance,
for recruitment and retention. He already knows it does nothing
with the unfunded liability. This bill, if amended this way,
isn't an investment in the workforce and the state may end up
recruiting from the bottom of the class. It won't attract and
keep the kind of public servants Alaska needs.
5:31:12 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA agreed and added that the DC plans are
seen as an unreliable vehicle for insuring financial security in
retirement.
We know specifically if we did something like this,
you can't have lengthy time off for having children,
raising a family, completing and education or for
illness. You have to have the proper ratios with
replacement. There are so many things in terms of a
policy call on this that I just feel that this one
year will not be enough....
5:32:03 PM
CHAIR STEDMAN called for a roll call vote on the motion to adopt
Amendment 1. Representative Kerttula and Senator Elton voted
nay; Representative Hawker, Representative Kelly, Senator Wilken
and Chair Stedman voted yea; and Amendment 1 was adopted.
5:32:43 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLY moved to adopt Amendment 2.
AMENDMENT 2
OFFERED IN FREE CONFERENCE COMMITTEE
TO: HCS CSSB 141(FIN)Am, VERSION R.A. BY REPRESENTATIVE KELLY
Page 41, line 8:
Delete: "health"
Page 43, following line 23:
Insert new section to read:
"*Sec___. AS 14.40.671 is amended by adding a new
subsection to read:
(h) Notwithstanding (b) of this section, the university may
offer an employee who made an election not to participate in an
optional university retirement program at the time the employee
was eligible to participate in the program, an option to enroll
in a different university retirement program first established
by the university after the effective date of this subsection."
Page 44, line 1:
Insert a new section to read:
"*Sec___. AS 14.40.691(c) is amended to read:
(c)The board may specify that contributions required by
this section are made by a reduction in salary under 26 U.S.C.
403(b) or 26 U.S.C. 414(h)(2)(Internal Revenue Code)."
CHAIR STEADMAN objected for discussion purposes.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLY explained:
Page 41 - The University does not currently provide health care
coverage in its defined contribution program and the effect of
leaving this in would require that this expensive accommodation
be made. The UA designs programs appropriate for its employees
based on market conditions necessary to keep competitive in
recruitment and retention of faculty and staff.
Page 43 - This section will allow the University to open a
defined contribution program to employees who may not have
selected the option to join ORP when it was first offered. When
the ORP program was established, there was a one-time,
irrevocable opportunity to elect participation. Many employees
who elected not to participate would now like a second change to
elect a defined contribution program.
Page 44 - This language is necessary for the ORP program to be
in compliance with Internal Revenue Code.
CHAIR STEDMAN said that addresses open item number 30 and he
removed his objection.
SENATOR ELTON objected to ask a question and to restate that the
net affect, other than technical clean up, is that the
university can open the option of choosing ORP to their
employees. It doesn't compel them to do it or change their
existing plan if they opt not to do it. It's a choice the
university employee can make based on his own personal or family
imperatives.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLY replied that is correct. He explained that
that option is now open to just a select class of employees and
this would open it up further.
CHAIR STEDMAN removed his objection and said there were no
further objections and Amendment 2 was adopted. He doubled back
to clarify that Amendment 1 removed item 36, because it was not
needed with the delayed implementation date. He recapped that
Senator Elton had cleaned up language on item 22(a) for the
board to have staggered terms of two years.
5:36:34 - 5:36:50 PM - At ease
SENATOR ELTON asked if there was a conflict in the fiscal notes.
Item 39, fiscal note number 9, dated 5/2/05, is zero for
administration and all the others add several million dollars.
5:37:51 PM
TRACI CARPENTER, staff to Senator Green, explained that fiscal
note number 9 was offered in the House Finance Committee to zero
out fiscal note number 8, which the Senate Finance Committee
passed depositing $69.5 million on behalf of all the
participating PERS employers.
The House Finance Committee felt that it was not an
appropriate vehicle to do so and so they zeroed out
the fiscal note. I believe the intention is that that
particular situation of providing the 5 percent relief
for the participating employers will be handled
through the operating or capital budget conference
committee.
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER, as a member of the House Finance
Committee, agreed with the explanation.
CHAIR STEDMAN moved to accept the report.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLY backed him up saying it addressed all 39
items.
CHAIR STEDMAN reiterated that there was a motion to accept the
committee report on SB 141 accepting items from previous
committee reports and Amendments 1 and 2.
5:41:07 PM
SENATOR ELTON objected.
CHAIR STEDMAN asked for a roll call vote. Representative
Kerttula and Senator Elton voting nay; Representative Hawker,
Representative Kelly, Senator Wilken and Chair Stedman voted
yea; and the motion carried.
CHAIR STEDMAN adjourned the meeting at 5:42:53 PM.
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