Legislature(2023 - 2024)DAVIS 106
05/04/2023 06:00 PM House WAYS & MEANS
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB165 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | HB 165 | TELECONFERENCED | |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS
May 4, 2023
6:16 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Ben Carpenter, Chair
Representative Jamie Allard
Representative Tom McKay
Representative Kevin McCabe
Representative Cathy Tilton
Representative Andrew Gray
Representative Cliff Groh
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 165
"An Act relating to charter schools; relating to correspondence
study programs; and providing for an effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 165(W&M) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 165
SHORT TITLE: CHARTER SCHOOLS; CORRESPONDENCE PROGRAMS
SPONSOR(s): WAYS & MEANS
04/19/23 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
04/19/23 (H) W&M, EDC, FIN
04/27/23 (H) W&M AT 6:00 PM DAVIS 106
04/27/23 (H) Heard & Held
04/27/23 (H) MINUTE(W&M)
05/04/23 (H) W&M AT 6:00 PM DAVIS 106
WITNESS REGISTER
KENDRA BROUSSARD, Staff
Representative Ben Carpenter
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided the explanation of changes for HB
165, Version R, on behalf of the sponsor, the House Special
Committee on Ways and Means, of which Representative Carpenter
serves as chair.
BOB GRIFFIN, Senior Education Research Fellow
Alaska Policy Forum
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on HB 165, Version R
DONNA ARDUIN, Staff
Representative Ben Carpenter
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on HB 165, Version R, on
behalf of the sponsor, the House Special Committee on Ways and
Means, of which Representative Carpenter serves as chair.
ACTION NARRATIVE
6:16:58 PM
CHAIR BEN CARPENTER called the House Special Committee on Ways
and Means meeting to order at 6:16 p.m. Representatives Allard,
McKay, McCabe, Tilton, Gray, Groh, and Carpenter were present at
the call to order.
HB 165-CHARTER SCHOOLS; CORRESPONDENCE PROGRAMS
6:17:44 PM
CHAIR CARPENTER announced that the only order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 165, "An Act relating to charter schools;
relating to correspondence study programs; and providing for an
effective date."
6:18:02 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE moved to adopt the proposed committee
substitute (CS) to HB 165, 33-LS0620\R, Marx, 5/4/23, as a
working document.
6:18:14 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY objected for the purpose of discussion.
6:18:36 PM
KENDRA BROUSSARD, Staff, Representative Ben Carpenter, Alaska
State Legislature, provided the explanation of changes for HB
165, Version R, on behalf of the sponsor, the House Special
Committee on Ways and Means, of which Representative Carpenter
serves as chair. She read the explanation of changes [included
in the committee packet], which read as follows [original
punctuation provided]:
New Title has the following words added, "relating to
public school funding,"
The CS deletes Sections 2, 3 from HB 165.
Section 1
Adds language that it is the intent of the legislature
that school districts spend the increase in
funding for correspondence schools on allotments to
parents and not on administering the
program.
Section 2
Section 1 from HB 165.
Section 3
Section 4 from HB 165.
Section 4
Section 5 from HB 165, with the addition to subsection
(19) that the Department of Education
and Early Development provide to any district that
offers a correspondence study program the
calculation of the amount of funding that is going to
the district for that program.
Section 5
Section 6 from HB 165.
Section 6
Section 7 from HB 165 is amended by changing the
correspondence school multiplier to 121.5
instead of 150.
Section 7
Section 8 from HB 165 and adds a section that requires
each district that offers a
correspondence study program to account for the
program expenses separately, keep complete
financial records of its expenses on the program, and
to provide an annual report to the
department and to the public of such.
Section 8
Section 9 of HB 165.
Section 9
Section 10 of HB 165.
6:20:43 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY questioned the change of the multiplier in
Section 6.
CHAIR CARPENTER stated that there had been a concern about the
high percentage, and, in response, the percentage was lowered in
this section.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY expressed the understanding that, when the
average daily membership (ADM) percentage was set at 150
percent, the amount was $8,900. He asked what the dollar amount
would be with the proposed 121.5 multiplier.
6:21:36 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 6:21 p.m. to 6:23 p.m.
6:23:45 PM
BOB GRIFFIN, Senior Education Research Fellow, Alaska Policy
Forum, responded that 121.5 percent multiplied by the current
base student allocation (BSA) of $5,960 would equal $7,241.40.
6:24:12 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY removed his objection. There being no
further objection, Version R was before the committee as a
working document.
6:24:30 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY said that during last week's presentation
the committee was informed that if 10,500 students signed up for
correspondence school, there would be an overall savings in the
state of $30 million. He asked how these savings were
calculated.
6:25:11 PM
MS. BROUSSARD deferred to the Department of Education and Early
Development (DEED).
6:25:31 PM
DONNA ARDUIN, Staff, Representative Ben Carpenter, Alaska State
Legislature, on behalf of the sponsor, the House Special
Committee on Ways and Means, of which Representative Carpenter
serves as chair, answered that the state currently saves $162
million because of the students receiving the Correspondence
School Allotment Program (CSAP) funding. She said that if an
additional 29,000 students participated, there would be net
savings of $35 million. She projected that when the breakeven
point with the increase in funding is reached, every new student
would add to the savings.
6:26:37 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY asked for further clarification about the
$162 million in savings.
6:27:09 PM
MR. GRIFFIN explained that there would be a $1,800 increase cost
per the 21,000 students already in CSAP, and for every student
who leaves the program there would be a $6,000 decrease. He
said that beyond the 6,000 students, the state would save about
$4,200 per student. He said that a concurrence with the House
Finance Standing Committee would best solve the answer, as the
figures provided are based on information given at the Policy
Forum's recent presentation to this committee. He said the data
has been updated to show the breakeven point may be earlier, and
the overall cost savings would be about $35 million if
enrollment returned to pre-pandemic levels.
6:28:37 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY asked if the change from 150 percent to
121.5 percent of BSA would change the level of savings.
MR. GRIFFIN answered yes.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY inquired why the state would provide CSAP
students more than BSA.
MR. GRIFFIN explained that 121.5 percent would bring
correspondence students up to par with students in brick-and-
mortar schools, and this would be accounting for the 1.2 percent
factor for non-intensive, special-needs students and the 1.5
percent factor for career technical education (CTE) students.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY observed the assumption that a certain
number of correspondence students would meet the criteria. He
expressed the understanding that not all would meet the
criteria.
6:31:31 PM
MS. ARDUIN explained that the education funding formula begins
with BSA, and then the multipliers are applied. She said the
first multiplier, containing special-needs and gifted and
talented students, goes to every student in public schools and
is a 1.2 multiplier toward the district's funding. She added
that there is also a 1.5 multiplier for CTE students, and there
are additional multipliers which go to public schools which have
school size and cost factors. She explained that the proposed
legislation would give CSAP funding for the first two factors,
which already follow every child in public schools; therefore,
it should follow the children in CSAP as well.
6:33:00 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE commented that the proposed legislation
would open CTE funding to support parents who are homeschooling
children. He said that the bill brings CSAP students up to
parity with the students in the school districts.
MS. ARDUIN expressed uncertainty concerning the parity, as the
funds following students to public schools are $18,000 to
$21,000 per student.
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE expressed the opinion that it is a
fraction of the parity, and it would be a raise for parents who
retain the choice of CSAP.
6:35:56 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY, using the new multiplier for a family with
three homeschooled children, hypothesized that the family would
receive $21,000 in total. Furthermore, he stated that he would
not be opposed to a cost of $5,000, if the children were sent to
a welding program; however, he stressed accountability on
funding going to the parents, as the money should only be used
toward the education of the child.
MS. ARDUIN explained that the proposed legislation would require
DEED to tell school districts how much money is going to the
districts for correspondence students; it also requires the
district to separately account for all of the expenses for the
programs and publicly report this to DEED.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY pointed out that the proposed legislation
would direct the money to go to the parents and not to the
administration. He suggested that there might be an
administrative burden because the district must report how the
money is being spent by all the families.
6:38:15 PM
CHAIR CARPENTER shared that he is a parent of a child in CSAP.
He stated that he does not have cart blanche access to the
money, and the money is specifically used only for things the
program allows.
6:39:05 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD offered her understanding that, if a
parent does not use all the funding provided in a correspondence
program, the money rolls over and can be put towards college.
MS. ARDUIN responded in the affirmative.
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD expressed the importance because schools
need to be held accountable. She expressed the opinion that
CSAPs are good, as the funds can roll over for years, even when
the student is in college. Furthermore, if one child decides
not to go to college, another child in the family can use the
funds towards college.
6:40:31 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 6:40 p.m. to 6:41 p.m.
6:41:58 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY, in regard to using the money towards
college, expressed agreement with this; however, he suggested
that Alaskans should be informed that public education money can
be used for higher education. He added that paying toward a
religious school would be a different subject.
CHAIR CARPENTER, as a parent with two children in CSAP, advised
that religious curriculum is paid for out of pocket. He said
that, under Version R, correspondence students would be allowed
under dual enrollment, however when a student is in university
only, this would no longer be CSAP.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY hypothesized that a family with three
children received $21,000. After one of the children graduated,
the family had $5,000 left over from the program. He questioned
whether these funds could be used towards college.
CHAIR CARPENTER, relating his own experience, stated that once
his two children graduated from correspondence school, they did
not have access to funds afterwards. He offered his
understanding that the correspondence program would collect the
remainder of the funds.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY asked whether the proposed 121.5 percent
would be given to the parents upfront, or whether the
correspondence program holds the funding, and the parents would
have to request money with receipts.
CHAIR CARPENTER, from personal experience, expressed the
understanding that the program would hold the money and a family
would use a reimbursement process.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY, regarding the hypothetical situation with
three children, he questioned what would happen if only $7,000
out of the $21,000 was used. He questioned whether the
correspondence school would keep the remaining $14,000.
CHAIR CARPENTER expressed uncertainty concerning what a
correspondence program would do with any funds which were not
spent at the end of the year. He recalled a personal
conversation with a CSAP representative who said if there was a
need above the allotment there may be some additional funds at
the end of the school year.
6:45:49 PM
MS. ARDUIN said the document sent to members after the last
meeting shows the laws which allow rollovers on the accounts.
She reminded members that the proposed legislation would require
an explanation of how all funds are spent.
6:46:23 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD expressed the opinion that there is no
such thing as a "blank check," and parents would need to submit
spending requests with receipts for educational materials.
CHAIR CARPENTER added that course work would need to be
regularly submitted in order to demonstrate progress.
6:47:42 PM
MS. ARDUIN added that families are assigned a certified teacher
from the program to oversee the plans, lessons, and results.
CHAIR CARPENTER confirmed that there is a contact teacher
assigned to every student to help them learn.
6:48:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY advised that there could be bad actors,
especially if the homeschooling parent has a broad definition of
"field trip." He questioned the definition of "field trip" in
correspondence programs.
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD stated that during the COVID-19 pandemic
she had transferred her children out of the Anchorage School
District and into the Florida Virtual School. Regarding field
trips, she said that receipts must be submitted, as well as a
report of the educational accomplishments.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY recounted the committee's previous
discussion on student testing and how it does not matter because
in public schools, 80 percent of students are tested versus 15
percent of the total students in correspondence programs. He
said that the comparison is not "apples to apples" because the
state does not have the standardized test data for
correspondence students.
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD explained the testing system used by
Florida Virtual School and expressed the opinion that the
Performance Evaluation for Alaska's Schools (PEAKS) is not of
any worth.
6:52:00 PM
CHAIR CARPENTER commented that testing requirements in
correspondence programs are the same as in brick-and-mortar
schools; furthermore, the ability of parents to opt children out
of the standardized test exists in both environments. He said a
standardized test is a bureaucratic way to assess a large number
of students in a short period of time.
6:53:34 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY said that, in his experience, most teachers
do not care for standardized testing. He explained that
administrators want to see results, reward teachers whose
students are doing well, and help the teachers who are not doing
well. He expressed curiosity as to the large discrepancy
between the 80 percent of public education students and the few
students in correspondence programs who take the test.
CHAIR CARPENTER expressed the opinion that a standardized test
is not the solution. He said that CSAPs across the nation are
becoming more readily accepted and sought after as an
alternative way for parents to educate children. He said
numbers suggest that if the state's school system switched to
correspondence, the state would see cost savings, with better
outcomes than the traditional school settings. He said the
intent of the legislation is to increase the quality of
education and decrease the cost.
6:56:52 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY asked whether correspondence schools are a
good fit for households with working parents.
CHAIR CARPENTER responded that some families use CSAP funds to
hire a teacher during the day; therefore, a single parent would
have the possibility of finding such a program.
6:57:54 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD added that she knows of five families
which hire teachers in this way. She expressed the opinion that
standardized tests are taken because of federal funding.
6:58:36 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY asked how the teacher would be paid using
the allotment from CSAP.
CHAIR CARPENTER, speaking to his personal experience, said the
relationship is only between the parents and the teacher, not
the program, and the reimbursement process is through CSAP.
7:00:25 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE advised that this is a voluntary program.
He shared the positive experience his daughter has had while
homeschooling her child.
7:01:45 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 7:01 p.m. to 7:02 p.m.
7:02:19 PM
CHAIR CARPENTER opened public testimony on HB 165. After
ascertaining that there was no one who wished to testify, he
closed public testimony.
7:03:01 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE moved to report CSHB 165, 33-LS0620\R,
Marx, 5/4/23, out of committee with individual recommendations
and the accompanying fiscal notes.
7:03:17 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY objected.
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Allard, McCabe,
McKay, Tilton, and Carpenter voted in favor of reporting CSHB
165, 33-LS0620\R, Marx, 5/4/23, out of committee.
Representatives Groh and Gray voted against it. Therefore, CSHB
165(W&M) was reported out of the House Special Committee on Ways
and Means by a vote of 5-2.
7:04:18 PM
The committee took a brief at-ease.
7:04:35 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Special Committee on Ways and Means meeting was adjourned at
7:04 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| CSHB 165 v.R.pdf |
HW&M 5/4/2023 6:00:00 PM |
HB 165 |
| CSHB 165 - Explanation of changes v.R.pdf |
HW&M 5/4/2023 6:00:00 PM |
HB 165 |
| HB 165 HW&M Public Testimony.pdf |
HW&M 5/4/2023 6:00:00 PM |
HB 165 |