01/27/2004 01:33 PM House TRA
| Audio | Topic |
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE
January 27, 2004
1:33 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Jim Holm, Chair
Representative Beverly Masek
Representative Dan Ogg
Representative Nick Stepovich
Representative Mary Kapsner
Representative Albert Kookesh
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Vic Kohring
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 213
"An Act relating to a provisional driver's license and to
issuance of a driver's license; and providing for an effective
date."
- HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 213
SHORT TITLE: PROVISIONAL DRIVER'S LICENSE
REPRESENTATIVE(s): WEYHRAUCH
03/26/03 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
03/26/03 (H) TRA, L&C
04/01/03 (H) TRA AT 1:30 PM CAPITOL 17
04/01/03 (H) Heard & Held
04/01/03 (H) MINUTE(TRA)
04/03/03 (H) TRA AT 1:30 PM CAPITOL 17
04/03/03 (H) Heard & Held
04/03/03 (H) MINUTE(TRA)
04/15/03 (H) TRA AT 1:30 PM CAPITOL 17
04/15/03 (H) Heard & Held/Subcommittee assigned
04/15/03 (H) MINUTE(TRA)
01/22/04 (H) TRA AT 1:30 PM CAPITOL 17
01/22/04 (H) -- Meeting Postponed to 1/27/04 --
01/27/04 (H) TRA AT 1:30 PM CAPITOL 17
01/27/04 (H) Heard & Held
01/27/04 (H) MINUTE(TRA)
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE BRUCE WEYHRAUCH
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: As sponsor of HB 213, explained the
proposed committee substitute (CS), Version U, and answered
questions; offered to come back with a new proposed CS.
RICHARD CATTANACH, Executive Director
AGC of Alaska
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 213 on behalf of the
American Automobile Association (AAA); provided statistics
showing a reduction in crashes from graduated driver's licenses
and driving restrictions for teenagers.
ANNA BARNWELL
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: During hearing on HB 213, testified as an
18-year-old high school senior in support of a graduated
driver's license; said even responsible teenagers often don't
make the best decisions when driving, and emphasized the need
for experience before obtaining a license.
BAILEY AREND
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 213 as a 16-
year-old high school junior; cited the high rate of crashes by
teenagers and new drivers, and spoke of the need to have an
experienced driver along, especially with Alaska's winter
driving conditions.
JANIS FLEISCHMAN
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 213 as the
mother of four children, one who is still a teenage driver;
especially spoke in favor of restricting the ability of a young
driver to have other kids in the car unless it's a sibling.
JEFF JESSE, Legislative Vice President
State Parent Teacher Association (PTA)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Urged support for HB 213, saying a
graduated licensing bill such as this is a legislative priority
for his organization; noted that young drivers from rural areas
come into urban areas and drive, thus making additional
experience perhaps even more important.
JANET McCABE, Chair
Partners for Progress
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 213 as being
both preventive and educational; said it will benefit new
drivers and the public, both now and in the future.
KERSTIN MILLER
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 213 as a parent
who has observed many accidents near Service High School.
CHRISTI ROWINSKI
Fairbanks Chapter
Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD)
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 213 on behalf of the four
Alaskan MADD chapters; answered questions.
DUANE BANNOCK, Director
Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV)
Department of Administration
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions about the new fiscal
note for HB 213.
KERRY HENNINGS
Driver Licensing
Director's Office
Division of Motor Vehicles
Department of Administration
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: During hearing on HB 213, answered
questions about rural impacts.
KAREN LAWFER, Health Program Manager
Community Health & Emergency Medical Services
Division of Public Health
Department of Health and Social Services
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 213, emphasizing
the importance of addressing three high-risk areas for teen
drives.
SHELDON E. WINTERS, Attorney at Law
Lessmeier & Winters
Lobbyist for State Farm Insurance Company
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Expressed strong support for HB 213 and
agreed to try to obtain requested information.
MIKE BRADNER
(Address not provided)
POSITION STATEMENT: During hearing on HB 213, expressed concern
that although foster children need to learn to drive, they may
not obtain a permit; acknowledged that it may require separate
legislation.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 04-2, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIR JIM HOLM called the House Transportation Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:33 p.m. Representatives Holm,
Masek, and Stepovich were present at the call to order.
Representatives Ogg, Kapsner, and Kookesh arrived as the meeting
was in progress.
HB 213-PROVISIONAL DRIVER'S LICENSE
Number 0025
CHAIR HOLM announced that the only order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 213, "An Act relating to a provisional driver's
license and to issuance of a driver's license; and providing for
an effective date."
CHAIR HOLM acknowledged that there wasn't a quorum yet, but said
the committee would take testimony. Pointing out a proposed
committee substitute (CS), Version U, provided since the bill
was last heard in 2003, he requested a motion to adopt it.
Number 0074
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK moved to adopt the proposed CS, Version 23-
LS0786\U, Luckhaupt, 1/23/04, as a work draft; she specified
that it was just for discussion purposes.
CHAIR HOLM noted the arrival of Representative Ogg and then
Representative Kapsner. He called upon Representative Weyhrauch
to explain Version U.
Number 0155
REPRESENTATIVE BRUCE WEYHRAUCH, Alaska State Legislature,
sponsor, told members that work during the interim had resulted
in Version U. The basic reason for the bill is because 36
states have implemented this kind of graduated driver's license
provision whereby young people getting a license must show some
ability to drive and are prohibited from driving at certain
times without the presence of an adult; this has saved a
significant number of lives, he said, and data provided to the
committee shows the impacts of this kind of legislation on young
people's lives in the United States.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH explained changes incorporated in
Version U. In Section 1, paragraph (2), "night" has been
changed to "nighttime" to provide what he characterized as a
helpful definition, between sunset and sunrise. The major
difference, however, relates to Section 3, where it says a
person authorized to drive a motor vehicle under the provisional
driver's license may not, [for] the first six months, operate a
vehicle except [with] a passenger who is a parent, legal
guardian, or sibling, or is at least 21 years of age. He said
this provision is to bring down the age to at least 21 [and is]
in order to take one's little brother along, for example. He
mentioned driving to or from a person's place of employment, and
said the driving must be along the most direct available route.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH referred to page 1, line 14, where it
talks about a person who hasn't been convicted of a violation of
a traffic law. Noting that this deletes earlier bill language,
"has not received a citation", he explained that there would've
been a logistical problem associated with tracking if a citation
were issued. Thus this is only concerned with a conviction.
Number 0391
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER mentioned Nebraska and said many states
have a "hardship" license under which kids who live out in the
country can drive to and from school at age 14 without an adult.
She asked whether Alaska has anything like that and whether this
would affect it.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH deferred to Mr. Bannock of the Division
of Motor Vehicles (DMV). He pointed out that this proposed
statute is for teens between the ages of 16 and 18, and gives
the parent or guardian the opportunity to say [to DMV], "Here's
proof that this driver has the high-quality skills and they've
got the requisite ... number of hours of experience to allow you
... to issue them this license."
CHAIR HOLM noted that Representative Kookesh had joined the
meeting. He turned attention to testimony via teleconference.
Number 0559
RICHARD CATTANACH, Executive Director, AGC of Alaska, speaking
on behalf of the American Automobile Association (AAA),
presented information he'd also provided in writing. He said
driving, a skill learned by doing, is inherently risky. The
premise of a graduated driver's license is simple, he said, and
it works; if the learning process is extended and exposure to
risk is reduced while teens gain skills and experience, the
number of crashes involving teens will be reduced. Emphasizing
the need to change how teens are taught to drive, he provided
statistics as follows:
Two out of five deaths among teens are the result of a
traffic crash. Fatalities for teens are twice that of
persons 35 and older. Crash-involvement rates for
teen drivers are three times that of drivers in their
forties and fifties. Teen drivers have a fatality
rate that is about four times higher than the fatality
rate among drivers 25 through 69. Graduated driver's
[licenses] work.
Varying lengths of learner phases, the LPs, as we
refer to them: studies have shown that graduated
driver's [licenses] are effective in reducing teen
crash rates. California ... experienced a 5 percent
reduction by imposing a ... six-week learning period.
Connecticut had a 22 percent reduction with a three-
to six-month learning period. Kentucky experienced a
32 percent reduction with a 180-day learning period.
In Michigan, it was 25 percent with a 50-hour learning
period; Ohio, 11 percent for a six-month learning
period; New Zealand, 7 percent for six months; Nova
Scotia, 24 percent for a six-month learning period.
MR. CATTANACH reported that this has been effective in reducing
injury- and fatality-related crash rates. Michigan had a 24
percent reduction, and Florida an 11 percent reduction. In
addition, studies show passenger restrictions work. In New
Zealand, passenger restrictions resulted in a 9 percent
reduction in the proportion of crashes involving teens.
Number 0670
MR. CATTANACH further reported that nighttime restrictions at
9 p.m. for 16-year-old drivers in North Carolina resulted in a
47 percent decrease in total crashes; Florida, with similar
restrictions at 11 [p.m.], saw a 17 percent decrease; Michigan,
with restrictions from midnight to 5 a.m., saw a 53 percent
reduction; and New Zealand, with a 10 p.m. restriction, saw a 37
percent reduction.
MR. CATTANACH said HB 213 has all the components of the most
successful graduated driver's license systems: it provides for
time to learn, with a six-month instruction period; provides
behind-the-wheel experience, with 50 hours of certified driving
experience; provides for responsibility, with six months of
citation-free driving; and removes two major risk factors,
passengers and late-night driving. He said AAA estimated in
2001 that the State of Alaska, through graduated driver's
licenses over a decade, could prevent nearly 970 injuries in
more than 3,000 crashes and could save more than $21 million.
MR. CATTANACH said the time has come to change the way teens are
taught to drive and that people are ready. A recent AAA poll
shows 74 percent of Americans support laws limiting teenage
passengers who may ride with inexperienced teen drivers, he
said, and 73 percent of adults think officials should do more to
improve the safety of drivers ages 15 to 17. He said it isn't
an issue of restrictions or burden, or good kids or good parents
versus bad. Rather, it's an issue of traffic safety. He
concluded, "Extend the learning period, reduce risk factors, and
we'll save lives."
Number 0789
REPRESENTATIVE HOLM asked whether AAA has any thoughts about
insurance rates in relation to this type of program.
MR. CATTANACH offered to inquire. He said he hadn't asked that
when this initial survey was done.
REPRESENTATIVE HOLM noted that someone representing State Farm
Insurance Company had signed up to testify.
Number 0825
REPRESENTATIVE OGG said many of the statistics Mr. Cattanach had
provided came from areas with a high population and
sophisticated road system. For Alaska, he asked if there was a
statistical breakdown between metropolitan and "rural and
frontier" areas, and whether there is a difference.
MR. CATTANACH replied that he'd expect a difference because of
differences in population density; however, AAA doesn't have
that kind of data. He added, "We could probably work with the
State of Alaska to develop ... that data."
REPRESENTATIVE OGG asked whether Mr. Cavanaugh was speculating
that figures might be lower in rural areas.
MR. CATTANACH said he wasn't speculating one way or another.
Number 0940
ANNA BARNWELL testified in support of a graduated driver's
license, noting that she is an 18-year-old high school student
who received her license at age 15 after having a permit for
only six months. Although she's had her license a year and a
half, Ms. Barnwell said she doesn't feel she's the best driver
out there; in fact, she totaled her mother's car six months
after receiving her license, due to falling asleep while
driving. At the time, she said, she was embarrassed about
falling asleep, but now feels this is a perfect example of
something that could be prevented through use of a graduated
license. She related her belief that even responsible
teenagers, as she considers herself to be, often don't make the
best decisions when doing something as important as driving.
MS. BARNWELL emphasized that driving is a huge responsibility
that needs to be taken seriously, and said the fact that she was
able to get her license with such little experience is "really
kind of scary." As a high school student, Ms. Barnwell said she
is faced with other teen drivers daily. "I speak for myself -
and on ... behalf of other kids in my school and students that I
know - that I would feel safer driving if I knew that every one
of my peers had to have the kind of experience that this bill
requires, and I think it's an excellent idea," she concluded.
Number 1044
BAILEY AREND testified in support of HB 213, noting that he's a
16-year-old high school junior who's had his license since
August, after having his permit nearly three years. Saying he
thinks HB 213 is a good idea, mainly because of the high rate of
crashes by teenage and new drivers, Mr. Arend reported that many
of his friends have been involved in crashes after recently
receiving their licenses; he surmised that many of those crashes
could have been avoided with a little more experience and
possibly an adult or other responsible person in the car.
MR. AREND said Alaska should have a graduated licensing system
because of dangerous winter driving conditions that include
darkness, ice, and the presence of moose and other large
animals. It is harder for an inexperienced driver to control a
skid on icy roads, for example. Emphasizing new drivers' need
for all the help possible, Mr. Arend reported that the first
time he drove at night in wintertime, he slid on black ice and
lost control of the car while entering the highway; fortunately,
no other cars were hit. He surmised that had his parents or
someone else with experience been with him, he'd have been
informed of the need to use four-wheel drive, and he indicated
it would have been helpful to have someone with a little more
experience in the car at any rate. Mr. Arend said the more
experience he gets, the more confident and careful a driver he
is, especially under [adverse] conditions. He closed by saying
it seems sensible to give new drivers more time to learn with
guidance before they are on the streets by themselves.
Number 1172
JANIS FLEISCHMAN testified in support of HB 213, noting that she
is the mother of four children, one who is still a teenage
driver. She offered her belief that increasing the amount of
time before a full license is granted "will support safer roads
but also support parents enormously." She pointed out the
difficulty of controlling all aspects of young drivers.
Speaking in favor of all [the proposed restrictions], she said
[the restriction on] operating a motor vehicle between the hours
of 1 and 5 a.m. will support the current curfew in Anchorage.
MS. FLEISCHMAN especially voiced support for the provision that
the youngest drivers won't have other kids in the car - which
results in an enormous distraction - for the first six months.
As a teacher for 18 years, she sometimes watches tenth-grade
students load five or six other kids in the car for a fast lunch
getaway, often in winter driving conditions. Noting how scary
this is for her, she said the accidents and crashes involving
teenagers that she's seen in the past 10 years almost always
occurred when multiple teenagers were in the car. Although
parents can ask their children not to do this, those parents
aren't at school, and Anchorage has open campuses. She
reiterated support for the bill and especially restricting the
ability of a young driver to have other kids in the car unless
it's a sibling.
Number 1290
REPRESENTATIVE STEPOVICH asked how the curfew works in
Anchorage, suggesting it would supersede the bill anyway.
MS. FLEISCHMAN agreed, but said she believes the bill supports
the existing curfew because kids aren't supposed to be out
between 1 a.m. and 5 a.m., or possibly 4 a.m.
Number 1320
JEFF JESSE, Legislative Vice President, State Parent Teacher
Association (PTA), informed the committee that every year his
organization has an "issues conference" to which delegates are
invited from around the state, from among the 14,000 members, to
come and identify their legislative priorities. This year, one
legislative priority is passage of a graduated licensing bill
such as HB 213. He said for many parents, one of their biggest
concerns - with both their own children's driving and that of
other teenagers - is lack of experience, especially that gained
when a more experienced driver is along, helping the young
driver learn how to negotiate the many challenges people face,
particularly in Alaska.
MR. JESSE mentioned that there have been concerns about the
difficulty of applying graduated licensing in rural communities.
In PTA debates, however, he said one issue has been that many
young drivers from rural areas come into Fairbanks, Anchorage,
or other urban areas where they drive; thus gaining additional
experience [before obtaining a license] is perhaps even more
important. On behalf of his organization and its members, he
urged support for HB 213.
Number 1411
JANET McCABE, Chair, Partners for Progress, testified in support
of HB 213 as follows:
Our organization works to support Judge Wanamaker's
wellness court, and deals primarily with repeat DUI
[driving under the influence] offenders that are in
their middle age. But repeatedly we see the tragedy
of people who did not realize when they were young
what a huge responsibility it is to always drive
safely and carefully.
The excellence of a ... graduated driver's license
bill is that it is both preventive and educational.
It adds provisions to licensing for beginning drivers
that will impress on young drivers age 16 to 18 that
care and caution must be taken to protect the public
as well as themselves. And, certainly, age 16 ... to
18 is the time to learn, and the time they are
impressionable. So we think that the bill will have
benefits now for new drivers and for the public, but
also it will have benefits in the future for when
today's drivers are older.
Number 1470
CHAIR HOLM asked how Judge Wanamaker's wellness court fits in.
He said there isn't anything like that in Fairbanks.
MS. McCABE acknowledged the desirability of having a wellness
court in Fairbanks, but said it's a somewhat different issue.
She suggested that a graduated driver's license bill will help
to educate kids so that they won't be dealt with in Fairbanks,
for example, 20 years from now.
Number 1504
KERSTIN MILLER testified in support of HB 213 as the mother of
an 11-year-old and a 13-year-old, and as someone who drives by
Service High School in Anchorage between 2 and 3 p.m. many
weekdays. Ms. Miller said she's observed lots of accidents on
Abbott Road as students judge when to enter the highway or how
fast to drive down that hill toward Lake Otis. She said she
looks forward to having some of these provisions in place when
her children learn to drive; it will help set a standard for
parents to educate their children about driving and to provide
the experience and time necessary for these drivers to learn in
a graduated, safe way. She suggested this will help new
drivers, their peers, and everyone else be safe on the roads.
Number 1556
CHRISTI ROWINSKI, Fairbanks Chapter, Mothers Against Drunk
Driving (MADD), informed the committee that today she was
speaking on behalf of the four Alaskan MADD chapters:
Anchorage, Mat-Su, Fairbanks, and Juneau. She gave an example
of how the requirements for a license have changed over time.
Now, she said, steps are being proposed that have already made
young drivers safer in 40 states.
MS. ROWINSKI said vehicle-related crashes are the leading cause
of death among 15- to 20-year-olds; 41 percent of teenage deaths
related to motor vehicles in 2002 occurred between 9 p.m. and
6 [a.m.]; 61 percent of teenage passenger deaths in 2002
occurred in crashes in which another teenager was driving; 40
states have implemented GDL [graduated driver's license]
programs since the mid-1990s and studies have found that teen
crashes in those states were "reduced to 33 percent," with one
study finding that fatalities dropped 58 percent. She indicated
some of these statistics were from the National [Highway]
Traffic Safety Administration, but had been taken from the
Insurance Information Institute.
MS. ROWINSKI said the GDL is a rural issue too. Anchorage has
about four times as many 15- to 19-year-olds (indisc.--
teleconference cutting out), and yet the number of teen drivers
seriously injured in Anchorage is only 2.5 times that in the
rural areas. She said the Matanuska-Susitna Borough had 47
seriously injured teen drivers, whereas Anchorage had 38, Juneau
had 4, and Fairbanks had 25.
CHAIR HOLM informed Ms. Rowinski that the committee was only
hearing a portion of the testimony.
MS. ROWINSKI went on to say that deaths in passenger vehicles
per 100,000 people in 2002 [as reported in an unspecified
document] showed that the 20-year-old group had three times as
many male drivers killed as is the "general population hazard
... of being killed." She said the GDL has proven to save money
because there are fewer car crashes and fewer violations to be
dealt with by cities and the state. Furthermore, applicants pay
for the second level of driver's permits. She said all other
states have shown that GDL programs don't cost money.
Number 1870
MS. ROWINSKI, in response to a question from Representative
Kookesh, said that in the broadest terms, more young drivers in
rural areas are seriously injured than in urban areas. The
Matanuska-Susitna Borough had 47 seriously injured teen drivers,
whereas Anchorage had 38; she said she didn't know what year
that was.
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH questioned the characterization of the
Matanuska-Susitna area as rural. He asked whether Ms. Rowinski
had any numbers for areas such as Aniak.
MS. ROWINSKI replied that she didn't, but would try to provide
those numbers.
Number 1933
CHAIR HOLM recalled that there was a zero fiscal note last year,
whereas now the fiscal note shows a revenue gain of $102,000.
He asked Mr. Bannock about it.
Number 1950
DUANE BANNOCK, Director, Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV),
Department of Administration, responded affirmatively and
explained:
With passage of this, we are proposing to actually tag
the physical driver's license with a restriction, and
the restriction would clearly identify the license
holder as being a provisional driver's license. It is
our mathematical formulation that a certain number of
people will want to have that removed from their
license. As a result, financially it would be treated
like a duplicate license, so that what you see on that
fiscal note, sir, is both the cost that the driver's
license holder would pay to get ... his or her new
license and the associated cost to the division to
produce that license.
CHAIR HOLM asked whether Mr. Bannock was saying [in the fiscal
note analysis] that it only costs $2 per license to produce, and
that DMV will charge $15 for it.
MR. BANNOCK said that's exactly correct.
Number 1990
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH asked how Mr. Bannock sees the
provisional license working in rural areas of Alaska where an
off-road-system license is allowed.
MR. BANNOCK deferred to Kerry Hennings, the manager of Driver
Licensing.
Number 2020
KERRY HENNINGS, Driver Licensing, Director's Office, Division of
Motor Vehicles, Department of Administration, answered:
The off-systems licenses, as we call them, where ...
they're not required to take a road test, would be
handled exactly the same way: a restriction to the
license, a restriction that after six months could be
removed if they drive citation-free. It would still
be under the same standards ... regarding time limits,
passengers, the work restrictions after 1 a.m.
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH questioned whether that was the sponsor's
intent or whether he'd even had time to discuss the off-systems
license with [DMV] or some of the [legislators from rural
areas]. He said he thinks there are two different questions
that require different answers.
MS. HENNINGS clarified that for an off-systems license, the only
difference is that the person hasn't taken a "road examination."
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH concurred. He said he believed there
could be a differential between an off-systems license and a
provision license, however, and that it could be a different
step. He requested that Representative Weyhrauch address this
at some point.
Number 2100
KAREN LAWFER, Health Program Manager, Community Health &
Emergency Medical Services, Division of Public Health,
Department of Health and Social Services, informed members that
she's the mother of an 18-year-old son and a 14-year-old
daughter who has had a learner's permit for one week. She said
all three parts of HB 213 carry almost equal weight. They
address the high-risk areas that teens experience. First is
lack of experience. Second is driving at night; with regard to
that, she quoted a police officer as having said, "Nothing good
happens from midnight till 5 in the morning with regard to
teenagers." And third is distractions from other kids in the
car; she suggested this could even go as far as not having
radios, compact disk (CD) players, or cell phones, but
emphasized the need to keep other kids out of the car so that
young drivers can concentrate on driving. Ms. Lawfer
highlighted the importance of addressing these three high-risk
areas equally, which she said the bill does.
Number 2160
REPRESENTATIVE STEPOVICH asked about the statistics cited
earlier that there were only four [serious injuries] in Juneau.
MS. LAWFER said that's four serious and fatal ones, not other
crashes where kids weren't hospitalized.
REPRESENTATIVE STEPOVICH said he wonders what Juneau is doing
differently from Fairbanks and Anchorage now.
AN UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER noted that this bill talks about
parenting all the way.
MS. LAWFER told members that to her, as a parent of an 18-year-
old who has been driving for two years, the reassuring thing
about the bill is that teen drivers will all be getting the same
amount of experience before they can go on. She noted that her
insurance company, State Farm Insurance Company, has its own
system that parents can use, after which the insurance rate
drops by 15 percent.
Number 2232
REPRESENTATIVE OGG expressed concern about fishing areas and
"frontier" areas of the state. He asked if there has been a
problem involving kids who work and drive between 1 and 5 a.m.
MS. LAWFER indicated statistics show kids are at risk if they've
been working late and get behind the wheel of a car. She
mentioned kids who get off the ferry after traveling at night to
a ballgame, for example, and said they're at risk and are a risk
to other drivers on the road. She highlighted the need for
concern, just as people are concerned about watching out for
drunk drivers and so forth. As a parent, Ms. Lawfer said she
would be picking those kids up [at the ferry terminal] to ensure
that they arrive home safely. She mentioned the learner's
permit period, which gives kids quite a few hours of experience,
and referred to the fact that the bill requires six months for a
provisional license that restricts driving during the [late]
evening. She continued:
Six months is not a long time, and death and
disability is. ... As a person that needs to weigh the
two sides to the coin, I think that's probably a real
personal choice, that you would have to probably look
at petitioning to DMV or somebody, just like if you
have somebody that's going to work early in the
morning. ... I understand the concern of that. I also
understand the concern of "they are at risk."
Number 2321
CHAIR HOLM suggested that both he and Representative Kookesh are
concerned about the one-size-fits-all approach. Alaska has huge
differences among its people, he said, citing the fact that he
grew up on a homestead and learned to drive a tractor. Chair
Holm highlighted the assumption that parents are good drivers
and therefore can teach their children to be good drivers, but
said parents who are bad drivers will teach their kids
accordingly. Just because someone happens to be 21 years old or
a parent, it doesn't make him or her a good role model for
driving. He noted the difficulty of making a policy for
everyone in Alaska.
TAPE 04-2, SIDE B
Number 2360
MS. LAWFER replied:
I think when you look at ... the risk areas and you
look at the amount of time - 50 hours, 10 of them
being, at least, night hours - that does ... cover a
broad period of time, as far as that. I know it's
very hard to make an umbrella when you're dealing with
that. I learned to drive on a tractor when I was 13
[years] old ... in Illinois. ... It does equalize the
risk factors, and it does mitigate and bring them
down, as far as some of the risk factors.
It's not going to fit everybody, but ... you have
people that are not good drivers as adults, and they
lose their license. Now, are they going to continue
to drive? Yes, they probably will. But then there
are laws that say, ... "You've lost your license; you
cannot drive." So, to try and equalize it and make it
an umbrella for everybody, it does deal with those ...
three biggest risk areas; it doesn't deal with all the
issues.
Number 2297
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER acknowledged that her question might be
better asked of the sponsor, but expressed concern about places
like Barrow and how defining "nighttime" as the period between
sunset and sunrise will affect teenagers during times when there
is no sunrise [because of the endless day or night during
certain times of the year].
MS. LAWFER deferred to the sponsor.
CHAIR HOLM called upon Mr. Winters, reminding him that there had
been a question as to whether the graduated driver's license
would result in lower insurance rates.
Number 2259
SHELDON E. WINTERS, Attorney at Law, Lessmeier & Winters,
Lobbyist for State Farm Insurance Company ("State Farm"),
replied that he didn't have specific information on the effect
the bill would have on insurance rates, but would ask State Farm
or the industry if there are reports or statistics; if so, he
would provide them. Turning to his testimony, Mr. Winters told
members he'd simply been asked to show up and voice State Farm's
strong support for this bill, which supports safety issues. He
referred to earlier testimony about a program implemented by
State Farm, and he indicated State Farm's reasons for supporting
the bill had been articulated by others. Mr. Winters closed by
saying although the bill may have a positive effect of perhaps
lowering insurance rates, it isn't about insurance rates;
rather, it's about lives and safety. He encouraged members'
support.
Number 2199
REPRESENTATIVE STEPOVICH surmised that if this bill goes
through, however, parents and their kids who adhere to these
laws will expect lower insurance rates. He said he'd hoped
Mr. Winters would say yes, the rates would be lower, which would
provide further incentive.
MR. WINTERS reiterated that he'll try to provide statistics,
which hopefully will be positive.
Number 2170
REPRESENTATIVE OGG asked whether Mr. Winters could obtain
statistics showing the difference in this age group's driving
while employed versus not employed.
MR. WINTERS said he'd ask, but cautioned against counting on
getting those specific statistics.
Number 2116
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH addressed the sponsor. He mentioned
rural areas of the state that are considered roadless, citing
Angoon as an example. He said a teenager who is in high school
now can go to the local police department, which has forms from
the state; the police gives an off-road-system test that is a
written exam; it's sent to Juneau, where it's graded; and if the
person passes, he or she receives an off-road-system license.
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH expressed concern that the bill will
eliminate that provision. He said if a person has to take the
written and driving test from the DMV, [teens] in rural Alaska
won't be able to have an off-road-system license anymore because
of lack of access to a car or to [DMV] staff in order to take
the test; there aren't even Village Public Safety Officers
(VPSOs) in 127 rural communities to [administer] such a test.
He emphasized the need to retain this off-road-system permit,
and suggested perhaps it could be "another class of what you're
trying to do." He said he wants to support this bill, but not
to the point of having the kids in the villages he represents
lose out.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH deferred to Mr. Bannock.
Number 2036
MR. BANNOCK replied:
Representative Kookesh raises a very good and valid
point. And perhaps I didn't fully explain how the
implementation of this will work. The off-system
license that he spoke of is going to continue. It's a
system that works very well for us in Alaska, and
we're not intending to eliminate that or in any way
allow this bill to change the way our testing
procedures take place.
What it will do, however, is add a restriction to the
license. So whether the license is a traditional
license like many of us have or [an] off-system
license such as the one that the Representative has
spoken to, ... with the passage of this bill it will
simply be a restriction on the off-system license.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH asked whether that restriction is just
for the "graduated driver's license portion for the ages between
16 and 18."
MR. BANNOCK said yes.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH said a provision under AS 28.15.051
that this bill doesn't modify says the department may issue a
special driver's license to a person under the age of 16 because
of circumstances of a hardship. He requested confirmation that
the bill doesn't change that at all.
MR. BANNOCK said that's correct. The hardship licenses are
graded on their own merit. He offered his opinion, if the bill
passes, that if a person gives a compelling reason and qualifies
for a hardship [permit], it could conceivably "trump" this.
Number 1955
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH announced that he would follow up with
Representative Kookesh, specifically, as well as Mr. Bannock.
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH asked that he also look at page 2, where
it has both age 21 and age 25. He asked why it isn't more
consistent, since anyone over the age of 21 is considered an
adult, and suggested that it be age 21 in both places.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH noted that it's in Section 3,
subsections (b)(1) and [(b)(2)(A)].
Number 1901
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER returned to her earlier question about
defining "nighttime" as the period between sunset and sunrise.
She suggested this theoretically could pose a hardship if a law-
abiding parent in Barrow wanted to go strictly by the rules.
The sun doesn't set in the summer there; it would require
waiting for 10 hours of winter in order to sign off on the young
person's 10 hours of nighttime driving, for example. She then
surmised that parents could work around it.
Number 1832
CHAIR HOLM requested confirmation of his understanding that if
someone who lived in the Bush had the off-road driver's license,
it wouldn't be recognized in Anchorage, for example, until that
person passed the GDL requirements.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH asked how the state does it.
MR. BANNOCK explained:
When we issue an off-system license, ... that
particular license will be good in a limited number of
areas that we recognize as being off-system. Just to
use a practical example, if a young person had been
issued an off-system license and then they flew to
Anchorage and rented a car, that would create a
problem because that license wouldn't be valid in
Anchorage, Alaska. That policy, though, I must say,
doesn't have anything to do with this bill in front of
us today.
Number 1772
REPRESENTATIVE STEPOVICH asked whether there is any stipulation
for the driver's education program. He recalled that it was
mandatory when he went to high school, but said he doesn't know
whether it still is.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER said it depends on the school district.
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH remarked, "It used to be good until we
cut all the money from the school systems; then they couldn't
afford those driver's programs anymore."
REPRESENTATIVE STEPOVICH asked whether the driver's education
program has any effect on licensing right now.
MR. BANNOCK responded that currently DMV doesn't recognize any
"curricular or extracurricular school activity-type of classes"
for its licensing rules or tests.
Number 1715
REPRESENTATIVE STEPOVICH said he wanted to see how it would
correlate if a student took driver's education and also complied
with all of [the provisions in the bill].
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH related his understanding and intent
that if a student takes a driver's education course or some
certified training program, then a parent can incorporate that
as part of the certification that the student has driver's
experience. He pointed out that in some instances, parents may
not be able to drive and will have to delegate that
responsibility to somebody who is trained.
Number 1678
REPRESENTATIVE OGG noted that there had been discussion the
previous year about "the midnight or 11 o'clock to 5 o'clock";
he expressed appreciation to the sponsor for changing that to
something that "helps folks out to continue what they're doing."
REPRESENTATIVE OGG referred to [page 2], lines 17-28,
subparagraph (B), which read, "driving to or from the person's
place of employment and the driving is along the most direct
available route." He pointed out that it doesn't allow a person
to drive while working. He offered a hypothetical example from
his own region, a family with a setnet site that needs supplies
and sends a youth on a ferry that boards at 3 a.m., because the
permit holder must remain at the location fishing. He expressed
concern that the youth wouldn't be able to board that ferry
[with a motor vehicle], which might hamper the business.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH explained the intent as follows:
They're under employment, and part of their employment
is to go to the ferry ..., and so that is part of the
location of employment, particularly for Alaska's
purposes; you cannot read this in a vacuum .... So
the place of employment could certainly include places
where that kid would have to be employed to do their
job, which means (indisc.) the ferry. ... I think the
operative phrase in the law is "on course," or ... you
take a junket away: you take ... a 20-block detour to
see a friend, that's not to a place of employment. ...
Going to and from a place of employment is wherever
that employment will lead you ... in the reasonable
course and circumstances of one's job. And that's
certainly the intent.
REPRESENTATIVE OGG suggested the language is a bit ambiguous
with regard to driving while employed.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH reiterated that his intent is "to have
it where they're employed, ... to do their work."
REPRESENTATIVE OGG proposed clarifying language such as the
following: "driving pursuant to a person's employment".
REPRESENTATIVE STEPOVICH suggested "scope of employment", saying
he has heard it used elsewhere.
CHAIR HOLM asked Representative Weyhrauch to have Legislative
Legal and Research Services look at it to make sure it works.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH agreed to that.
Number 1529
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH referred to page 1, lines 11-12, which
talks about "proof satisfactory to the department". He asked
whether "proof satisfactory" is a legal term defined anywhere.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH replied that he thinks it is a legal
term when it's used in a statute, and added:
I think "proof satisfactory" means something that
someone delegated with the task of determining whether
the proof is satisfactory or not. ... It's somewhat
ambiguous. If they come in and they say, "My mom said
I've satisfied the requirement," that may not be
satisfactory. If they come in with a note ..., "My
son [has satisfied] 50 hours of driving," signed
"Mom", [with the] date, ... that probably should be
satisfactory.
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH said he'd like to at least have a
definition someplace that says what satisfies "proof
satisfactory", which is broad.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH suggested perhaps Mr. Bannock has had
some experience in this area.
Number 1466
MR. BANNOCK explained how DMV would handle it:
What we would employ here for that is an affidavit
section on the driver's license application.
Currently, ... that is being utilized for parental
consent, which is required before issuance of a
driver's license today; we simply intend to
incorporate that into the deal. In absence, we will
also take ... a notarized affidavit from the parent,
the legal guardian, or the employer to satisfy this
very important requirement.
CHAIR HOLM asked if that's for when [the parent, legal guardian,
or employer] isn't present in person.
MR. BANNOCK said that's correct.
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH asked why the bill doesn't just say
"signed and notarized affidavit".
MR. BANNOCK responded, "I guess - as opposed to having it in
statute that it's [a signed] affidavit - the majority of these
will be incorporated through the parental-consent signature,
which is not, by definition, an affidavit."
CHAIR HOLM expressed confusion about Mr. Bannock's reply, but
asked whether that satisfied the concern.
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH indicated it was fine as long as the
intent was clear.
Number 1388
MR. BANNOCK, in response to questions from Representative
Stepovich and Chair Holm, clarified, "The affidavit would come
into play if the parent was not there to sign for the parental
consent, which we require before issuing the license, or perhaps
it came after the fact ... or when the person was taking the
restriction off; that's when we would accept the affidavit."
Number 1360
REPRESENTATIVE STEPOVICH asked, besides the details, whether
anyone is against this legislation.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH answered that concerns expressed to him
were along the lines of the following: kids' not wanting an
adult "driving them around"; impacts to rural Alaska; and a
mother's wanting her teenager to drive himself or herself to
school because she's too busy being a single mother, for
example, which may be a hardship exception.
CHAIR HOLM asked Representative Weyhrauch whether there is a
hardship exception envisioned with this.
AN UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER said it's already in the law.
Number 1298
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER returned attention to notarized
affidavits, saying she didn't know how comfortable she was with
asking parents to do that or, if a young person had a not-so-
involved parent, having that person go through the additional
steps of having the parent find a notary. In small communities,
the only notary may be the postmaster, and some don't even have
a postmaster. She voiced concern about adding more burdens.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH asked about the existing practice
involving an affidavit.
MR. BANNOCK explained that mail-in off-system licenses are
currently required to be notarized or witnessed by a DMV
employee.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH asked whether that applies to everyone
in Alaska who has an off-road permit or special exemption.
MR. BANNOCK said yes.
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH suggested this wouldn't be new, then.
MR. BANNOCK said that provision of it wouldn't be new.
Number 1229
MR. BANNOCK, in reply to questions from Representative
Stepovich, said [DMV] has compiled statistics on how many 16-
and 17-year-olds use licenses that would fall under this [bill]
today; it was determined that roughly 50 percent would return to
the DMV and have this particular restriction taken off their
licenses. He said he didn't have the percentage broken down as
to "affidavits versus parents."
REPRESENTATIVE STEPOVICH remarked that if parents don't want to
pay $25 for the notary, for example, it sounds as if they'd
better show up.
MR. BANNOCK pointed out that current practice, without the
provisional driver's licensing system, is that those are the
options available upon issuance.
CHAIR HOLM called upon a further testifier, noting that he is a
former Representative.
Number 1100
MIKE BRADNER, a parent and foster parent, told members:
Looking at this bill, it's about kids' gaining
experience in driving so they become good drivers.
But kids who are assigned to you under DFYS [Division
of Family and Youth Services] may not get a driver's
permit or hold a driver's license. And so there's
little opportunity, if you have long-term foster kids,
for these children to have opportunity to learn how to
drive. And I understand that there's very likely
valid reasons - the state being a "deep pocket" - why
they may not have a full driver's license. But these
kids do need the opportunity to learn how to drive,
and it causes you some concern when you see these kids
approaching 18 and they're going to become emancipated
and they're not going to know how to drive.
And I recently was apprised that they're now beginning
to provide transitional money for some of these kids,
to give them some services as they make the transition
to emancipation. And the federal government does
permit that some of this money could be expended for
driver's training. But, of course, a kid has to be
able to hold a permit.
MR. BRADNER acknowledged impacts on a foster parent's insurance
rates if a youngster drives with a full license, for example.
He said, however, that the fundamental issue is this: These
kids need to learn how to drive. He added that this is
something he'll talk to the House Health, Education and Social
Services Standing Committee about, since this [restriction]
comes from the Department of Health and Social Services, rather
than being imposed by DMV.
Number 0996
CHAIR HOLM asked whether Mr. Bradner had any proposed language
that would make it better at this point.
MR. BRADNER said he didn't think so, and surmised that it would
have to come from separate legislation. He said the central
issue is getting training and experience in driving for kids.
He suggested perhaps having foster kids has given him a view of
how people function who aren't necessarily within the
demographics of those who usually testify before the
legislature. Mentioning single moms and people who may have one
car of "limited ability," he remarked that these parents are
reluctant to give their kids driver's training because of not
wanting to put the car at risk, perhaps, or not being able to
afford the additional insurance.
MR. BRADNER said the simplest advice to parents is to enroll the
teens in driver's training and pay the $600 for the classes, put
them behind the wheel with the parent, and them let them drive
repeatedly; too often, however, the opposite happens, especially
in this group of parents who are reluctant to let their kids
drive [or who may not have the money]. He voiced concern about
the "DFYS kids" and the impacts he sees on the children.
CHAIR HOLM noted that his father had served with [then-
Representative] Bradner and thanked him for his service.
Number 0855
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH, in response to Chair Holm, indicated
he would bring back a new proposed CS. [HB 213 was held over.]
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Transportation Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at
2:53 p.m.
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