Legislature(2001 - 2002)
03/19/2002 01:11 PM House TRA
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+ teleconferenced
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE
March 19, 2002
1:11 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Vic Kohring, Chair
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair
Representative Drew Scalzi
Representative Peggy Wilson
Representative Albert Kookesh
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Scott Ogan
Representative Mary Kapsner
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 502
"An Act relating to the designation of and funding for rustic
roads and highways; and providing for an effective date."
- HEARD AND HELD
HOUSE BILL NO. 473
"An Act relating to transportation."
- HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 502
SHORT TITLE:RUSTIC ROADS AND HIGHWAYS
SPONSOR(S): TRANSPORTATION
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/27/02 2408 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
02/27/02 2408 (H) TRA, FIN
02/27/02 2408 (H) REFERRED TO TRANSPORTATION
03/05/02 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
03/05/02 (H) Heard & Held
03/05/02 (H) MINUTE(TRA)
03/19/02 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
BILL: HB 473
SHORT TITLE:STATE TRANSPORTATION PLAN
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)GREEN
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/19/02 2315 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
02/19/02 2315 (H) TRA, FIN
02/19/02 2315 (H) REFERRED TO TRANSPORTATION
03/05/02 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
03/05/02 (H) Heard & Held
MINUTE(TRA)
03/19/02 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
WITNESS REGISTER
MIKE KRIEBER, Staff
to Representative Vic Kohring
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 24
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented changes to HB 502 as the
committee aide of the House Transportation Standing Committee.
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 403
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as the sponsor of HB 473, saying
he did not see a problem with rolling HB 473 into HB 502.
MILLIE RYAN, Executive Director
Governor's Council on Disabilities & Special Education
P.O. Box 240249
Anchorage, Alaska 99524-0249
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 502, saying the funding for
the coordination of public transportation would lead to
efficiencies for agencies that must transport their clients.
KRISTIN LAMBERT, Executive Director
Central Area Rural Transit System
P.O. Box 993
Soldotna, Alaska 99669
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 502, underlining the
importance of coordinated community transportation systems and
their funding.
PATRICK REINHART, Director
State Independent Living Council (SILC)
1016 West 6th, Number 105
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 502, expressing SILC's
support of the bill.
JAMES FISHER
Kenai Peninsula Food Bank
33955 College Drive
Soldotna, Alaska 99669
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 502, supporting funding for
coordinated community transportation.
WAYNE EAGLE
P.O. Box 356
Tok, Alaska 99780
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 502, saying rustic roads
need not be paved, by definition.
ALLEN ECKLES (ph), Lessee
Tangle Lakes Lodge
(No address provided)
Paxson, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 502, saying he would like
to see "the road upgraded."
GARY NANCE, Owner
McLaren Lodge
(No address provided)
Paxson, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 502, saying he did not
support leaving the Denali Highway unpaved.
JOHN SCHANDELMEIER (ph)
Meier's Lake Road House
HC 72 Box 7193
Paxson, Alaska 99737
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 502.
DEANNA ESSERT, Community Activist
Sand Lake Community Council
6262 West Dimond
Anchorage, Alaska 99502
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 473, which was rolled into
HB 502.
FRANK DILLON, Executive Vice President
Alaska Trucking Association
3443 Minnesota Drive
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 502, expressing concern
about some of the changes to the Statewide Transportation
Improvement Plan.
RUTH L'HOMMEDIEU
P.O. Box 80127
Fairbanks, Alaska 99708
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the increase in
funding for coordinated community transportation in Version B of
HB 502.
GEOFF PARKER, Attorney
7931 Huckleberry Circle
Anchorage, Alaska 99502
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 502.
SAM KITO III, Chair
Legislative Liaison Committee
Alaska Professional Design Council
P.O. Box 21192
Juneau, Alaska 99802
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 502, expressing concern
about the possible delays on projects and the forbiddance of
paving gravel roads.
CHUCK KAUCIC
HC01 Box 6301
Palmer, Alaska 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 502, saying TRAAK
money should be used for TRAAK projects.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 02-7, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIR VIC KOHRING called the House Transportation Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:11 p.m. Members present at the
call to order were Representatives Scalzi, Wilson, and Kohring.
Representatives Masek and Kookesh arrived as the meeting was in
progress.
HB 502-RUSTIC ROADS AND HIGHWAYS
HB 473-STATE TRANSPORTATION PLAN
CHAIR KOHRING announced that the committee would consider HOUSE
BILL NO. 502, "An Act relating to the designation of and funding
for rustic roads and highways; and providing for an effective
date," and HOUSE BILL NO. 473, "An Act relating to
transportation."
CHAIR KOHRING informed members that HB 473 had been rolled into
HB 502 [Version B], as was another provision having to do with
transportation funding.
Number 0138
MIKE KRIEBER, Staff to Representative Vic Kohring, Alaska State
Legislature, testified before the committee. He explained that
some committee members had been concerned with inconsistencies
and some overlapping between HB 473 and HB 502. The bills
therefore were combined to eliminate some of those concerns.
Number 0206
MR. KRIEBER noted that HB 473 would be in Sections 4 and 5 of
the proposed committee substitute (CS) [HB 502, Version B]. One
of the primary changes in that language was to address some of
Representative Kapsner's concerns about smaller projects in her
district with a cost-benefit ratio of less than one in an
economic analysis. He said this concern was addressed by a $1
million threshold amount for project cost estimates. This would
exclude projects that cost less than that amount from the
reevaluation requirement.
MR. KRIEBER said [subsection] (f) in Section 5 had also been
modified. He told the committee that it would make the
legislature's approval process more passive, rather than the
"heavyhanded" approach whereby the department would be required
to approve every project at every step. Mr. Krieber pointed out
that this change would allow the department to submit a written
justification with a capital budget request for projects with
cost-benefit ratios of less than one. This would provide the
legislature with information, and give an opportunity for
legislators to ask questions and make changes to the capital
budget based on information in the justification.
Number 0370
MR. KRIEBER directed the committee's attention to the changes
that would be brought to HB 502 by the infusion of HB 473. He
gave an overview of the general premise of the original bill.
He said there were several modifications from the original bill
to the current CS [Version B]. However, remaining is the
general idea of using the draft regulations of the Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities (DOT&PF) as a format for
designating road categories - the National Highway System, the
Alaska Highway System, the Community Transportation Program, and
Trails and Recreational Access For Alaska (TRAAK). He said the
bill adds a fifth category to the DOT&PF regulations - Rustic
Roads and Highways. Version B would also add "trails" to the
rustic road category.
MR. KRIEBER told the committee that DOT&PF regulations specify
certain funding percentages for the current four road
categories. The bill would modify those categories by small
percentages [of federal surface transportation funds] in order
to fund the fifth category, which would include rustic highways,
roads, and trails. The bill would reduce the Alaska Highway
System from 8 to 7 percent, the Community Transportation Program
from 33 to 32 percent, and the TRAAK system from 8 to 5 percent.
The rustic road category would receive 5 percent. He pointed
out that the Coordinated Transportation System program would
receive increased funding in Version B.
Number 0710
CHAIR KOHRING asked Mr. Krieber to elaborate on what benefit
would be derived from adding trails to the bill.
MR. KRIEBER said it would provide funding for snow machine
trails, and give access to fishing and hunting areas. He said
the emphasis of the TRAAK program had been road enhancements,
bike paths, and things of that nature. This would provide
access into new areas that would benefit people statewide.
Number 0794
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor of
HB 473, testified before the committee. He told members that
combining HB 473 and HB 502 was fine. He asked the committee to
consider inserting the word "reasonably" before the word
"estimated" [on page 5, Section 5, line 29 of Version B]. He
expressed concern that there could be "low-balling" in
estimating, to get around the updating requirement.
Number 0879
CHAIR KOHRING asked if Representative Green's aforementioned
change would be acceptable to the committee. [It was treated as
acceptable.]
Number 0907
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked where the Alaska Marine Highway
System (AMHS) fits in.
MR. KRIEBER pointed out that the AMHS falls under a separate
funding category from the surface transportation program. He
said the bill would not reduce the Alaska Marine Highway System.
Number 0964
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK moved to adopt the proposed CS, Version B,
22-LS0822\B, Utermohle, 3/19/02, as the working document.
CHAIR KOHRING announced that Representative Greene's change -
inserting the word "reasonably" on page 5, line 29, - would be
included. [Version B was treated as adopted with the
aforementioned change.]
CHAIR KOHRING stated that he would like to address public
transportation and its receipt of 1 percent of the National
Highway System funds as a result of Version B.
Number 1024
MILLIE RYAN, Executive Director, Governor's Council on
Disabilities & Special Education, testified before the
committee. She told members that part of her organization's
mission is to provide transportation for the disabled. She said
coordinated public transportation makes up a very small portion
of the statewide transportation budget.
MS. RYAN told members that service levels have not kept up with
population growth. Community transportation systems are in the
beginning stages of development. These systems consolidate
resources, have central dispatch functions, and provide many
services to a large number of people. She gave examples of some
of the transportation systems around the state. Ms. Ryan
characterized much of the funding for these systems as "soft
federal money" - about $4 million - that may go away with
changes in Congress.
Number 1191
MS. RYAN said the 1 percent is not a great deal of money - $2
million - but it could do a lot to provide access to
transportation for people to get to work, receive medical
service, and live in their communities. Emphasis on coordinated
transportation systems would result in lower cost per ride,
improved geographic coverage, and better use of funds for
agencies that receive funding to transport their service
recipients. Ms. Ryan gave several examples of the state savings
that could be made as a result of the coordination of these
transportation systems.
Number 1375
KRISTIN LAMBERT, Executive Director, Central Area Rural Transit
System, testified via teleconference. She said 1 percent of
[federal surface transportation] funds would not be a large
amount of money in comparison to the numbers who would benefit.
She said Alaska has needed highway infrastructure for many
years, but Alaska's transportation needs are not only "patching
the potholes and building more roads." Emphasis must also be
placed on "getting people around."
MS. LAMBERT said the state needs to support community programs
for coordinated transportation. She pointed out that [the
funding from HB 502] would benefit over 1,000 people and their
families in her area alone. She said 40 percent of the
transportation her organization provides is for people going
between jobs and home.
Number 1520
PATRICK REINHART, Director, State Independent Living Council
(SILC), testified via teleconference. He expressed his
organization's support of [HB 502, Version B]. He said
transportation is a major issue around the state, and that it is
critical for people. The funding increase [in Version B] would
go a long way in improving transportation systems across the
state. Mr. Reinhardt pointed out the importance of building the
programs and the resulting efficiencies in communities.
Number 1605
JAMES FISHER, Kenai Peninsula Food Bank, testified via
teleconference. He told the committee that the Kenai Peninsula
Food Bank receives transportation service from the Central Area
Rural Transit System for the needy families that it serves. He
shared his understanding that the 1 percent funding from Version
B would help to assure the vital public transportation to and
from his food bank. He urged support for the 1 percent funding
to coordinated public transportation.
WAYNE EAGLE (ph) testified via teleconference. He expressed his
belief that the "unpaved" designation for rustic roads might be
doing the state a disservice. He cited the Taylor Highway as an
example of a [paved] road that should be designated as rustic.
Number 1844
ALLEN ECKLES (ph), Lessee, Tangle Lakes Lodge, testified via
teleconference. He said he would like to see "the road
upgraded."
Number 1875
GARY NANCE, Owner, McLaren Lodge, testified via teleconference.
He expressed frustration that the bill specifies that rustic
roads must remain unpaved. He said he grew up in the area and
would like to see it remain pristine, but said a 60-foot swath
of upgraded road would not ruin it. He told the committee that
many of his friends had testified in favor of the bill and
against upgrading the Denali Highway, but he made it known that
he stood at odds with them on the matter. Trying to run a
business without rental cars or buses on the Denali Highway is
very difficult, he told members.
MR. NANCE pointed out that the people who travel in rental cars
are not the ones to tear up the country: the people with off-
road vehicles are the ones who leave the road and penetrate into
untouched land. He said much of the support for the bill comes
from the Fairbanks area and the people there who would like
ensure [tour bus] routes are not lost, but he told the committee
that he owned a business in Fairbanks as well. Mr. Nance said
that he bought his lodge under the assumption that the road
would be paved. He concluded by saying that he would like to
see the Denali Highway paved.
Number 2100
JOHN SCHANDELMEIER, Meier's Lake Road House, testified via
teleconference. He said the combination of HB 473 and HB 502
"added a little something for everybody." He expressed his
support of the rustic road provision. He told the committee
that it was not the exclusion of tourism that was being sought
in keeping the road unpaved; it was the wish to keep [the area]
a destination instead of just a travel corridor. He told the
committee of the importance of keeping the traffic slow and at a
low volume, while trying to have overnight visitors who will
spend money. He expressed his thought that the paving money
could be better spent elsewhere.
Number 2213
DEANNA ESSERT, Community Activist, Sand Lake Community Council,
testified via teleconference. She said Sand Lake has a need to
improve its existing transportation system. She told the
committee of poor access to a new housing development in her
area and asked why it was not at the top of DOT&PF's priority
list. She expressed her concern about expensive projects taking
precedence over small projects. Ms. Essert said cost-benefit
analyses will allow funding to flow and will ensure "the most
bang for the buck." She urged passage of HB 473.
CHAIR KOHRING reminded Ms. Essert that HB 473 had been rolled
into Version B of HB 502.
TAPE 02-7 SIDE B
Number 2383
FRANK DILLON, Executive Vice President, Alaska Trucking
Association, testified via teleconference. He stated his
concern about DOT&PF's recent revision of the Statewide
Transportation Improvement Plan (STIP) and what impact the
changes in the bill might have on it. The process took a long
time, he said. Mr. Dillon clarified that the Alaska Trucking
Association is strongly in favor of lowering overhead costs for
DOT&PF. He said he was not prepared to comment on the rustic
roads portion of HB 502.
Number 2295
RUTH L'HOMMEDIEU, Chair, State Independent Living Council
(SILC), testified via teleconference. She expressed her support
of Version B and its funds for coordinated community
transportation. She said it is very important for people to
have transportation for their employment, health care, and basic
everyday needs.
Number 2240
GEOFF PARKER testified via teleconference. He expressed support
of the provisions of HB 473, as rolled into Version B [of HB
502]. He said he was speaking specifically to the cost-benefit
analysis and "most bang for buck" aspects of HB 473.
Number 2205
SAM KITO III, Chair, Legislative Liaison Committee, Alaska
Professional Design Council, testified via teleconference. He
said his organization supports the concept of accountability,
but he expressed concern as to whether the bill would delay
implementation and construction of projects. He expressed
reservations about the restriction on the possibility that
gravel roads will be paved. Paving decreases maintenance costs,
he pointed out, and the funds saved can be used on other
projects.
Number 2054
CHUCK KAUCIC testified via teleconference. He said the amount
of TRAAK funding is small in relation to that of the federal
highway money. He posited that TRAAK money should be used to
fund recreational access and not for highway construction. He
told the committee that there is highway money for highways, and
TRAAK money for TRAAK projects.
[HB 502 was held over; HB 473 was incorporated into HB 502,
Version B.]
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Transportation Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:11
p.m.
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