Legislature(1999 - 2000)
03/23/2000 01:08 PM House TRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE
March 23, 2000
1:08 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Andrew Halcro, Chairman
Representative Beverly Masek
Representative Bill Hudson
Representative John Cowdery
Representative Allen Kemplen
Representative Vic Kohring
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Albert Kookesh
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 205
"An Act relating to the use of snow machines to transport hunters
and game across the Dalton Highway corridor."
- MOVED CSHB 205(TRA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 426
"An Act relating to transfers of public land or grants or
conveyances of interest in public land among the Alaska Railroad
Corporation, the Department of Transportation and Public
Facilities, and the Department of Natural Resources to relocate or
widen the Seward Highway, to relocate railroad facilities, and to
relocate adjacent utility facilities; and providing for an
effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 426(TRA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 205
SHORT TITLE: SNOW MACHINES CROSSING DALTON HIGHWAY
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
4/20/99 884 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
4/20/99 884 (H) TRA
2/03/00 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
2/03/00 (H) -- Meeting Canceled --
3/23/00 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
BILL: HB 426
SHORT TITLE: TRANSFER OF RAILROAD LAND: CHUGACH PARK
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
2/28/00 2336 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
2/28/00 2336 (H) TRA, RES, FIN
2/28/00 2336 (H) 2 ZERO FISCAL NOTES (DNR, DOT)
2/28/00 2336 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
2/28/00 2336 (H) REFERRED TO TRANSPORTATION
3/23/00 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE REGGIE JOULE
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 405
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 205.
GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison
Office of the Commissioner
Department of Fish & Game
PO Box 25526
Juneau, Alaska 99802-5526
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 205.
DOUG LARSEN, Assistant Director
Division of Wildlife Conservation
Department of Fish & Game
PO Box 25526
Juneau, Alaska 99802-5526
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding HB 205 and its
impact on the permitting process for muskox.
DENNIS POSHARD, Legislative Liaison/Special Assistant
Office of the Commissioner
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities
3132 Channel Drive
Juneau, Alaska 99801-7898
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 426.
WENDY LINDSKOOG, Director
of External Affairs
Alaska Railroad Corporation
Department of Community & Economic Development
PO Box 107500
Anchorage, Alaska 99510-7500
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 426.
RON CRENSHAW, Marine Recreation & Trails
Central Office
Division of Parks & Outdoor Recreation
Department of Natural Resources
3601 C Street, suite 1200
Anchorage, Alaska 99503-5921
POSITION STATEMENT: Announced his presence in the event there
were any questions.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 00-23, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIRMAN ANDREW HALCRO called the House Transportation Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:08 p.m. Members present at the
call to order were Representatives Halcro, Hudson, Cowdery and
Kohring. Representatives Masek and Kemplen arrived as the meeting
was in progress.
HB 205 - SNOWMACHINES CROSSING DALTON HIGHWAY
CHAIRMAN HALCRO announced the first order of business as House Bill
205, "An Act relating to the use of snow machines to transport
hunters and game across the Dalton Highway corridor." There is a
proposed committee substitute.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO entertained a motion to adopt the proposed
committee substitute.
Number 0074
REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON made a motion to adopt the proposed
committee substitute for HB 205, version 1-LS054\G, Utermohle,
5/4/99. There being no objection, Version G was before the
committee.
REPRESENTATIVE REGGIE JOULE, Alaska State Legislature, came before
the committee to testify as sponsor of the bill. He noted that the
proposed committee substitute changes the language on page 1, line
13, from "... the use of a snow machine to transport a hunter or
game across ..." to "... the use of a snow machine to travel across
..." The language was changed in recognition of the travel that
occurs between communities in the affected area.
Number 0132
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE continued. He explained that a few years ago
the Board of Game established a food hunt for muskox in the central
Arctic region. The board recognized that individuals from Nuiqsut
would have to cross the Dalton Highway corridor on their snow
machine in order to access the hunting grounds. They attempted to
provide for this access but were advised by the Department of Law
that a change in statute was needed. He noted that on each side of
the Dalton Highway there is a 5-mile corridor that restricts any
ground transportation, except what is necessary for the highway.
He pointed out that the individuals from Nuiqsut and Kaktovik would
not be hunting within the corridor but crossing it.
Number 0258
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COWDERY asked Representative Joule whether the
residents in that area would be allowed to hunt in the corridor.
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE replied, "No."
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Representative Joule, What is the
principal animal that they are going to hunt?
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE replied the principal animals are caribou and
muskox. He reiterated that this issue was started as the result of
the establishment of a muskox hunt by the Board of Game.
Number 0312
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Representative Joule whether access to
the corridor is open to everybody.
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE replied access to the corridor is for those
who need to travel across the corridor. In other words,
individuals could not bring their snow machines to the Dalton
Highway and originate their travel from within the corridor. It's
simply for those traveling across the corridor.
Number 0360
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Representative Joule whether he's
saying that access to the corridor would be limited to local
residents.
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE replied, "Yes."
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Representative Joule whether muskox
require the use of a hunting license. In other words: Can
everybody hunt muskox?
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE deferred the question to a representative of
the Department of Fish & Game.
Number 0419
GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison, Office of the Commissioner,
Department of Fish & Game, came before the committee to testify.
The department is in support of the proposed committee substitute.
The law needs to be changed in order to allow individuals to gain
access to the muskox hunt. It also reflects the changing
distribution of caribou and moose for harvesting. He noted that
the Board of Game passed a regulation to allow for access, with the
department's support, but it was then determined by the Department
of Law that the legislature needed to make the change in statute.
Number 0498
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Bruce whether anybody who lives in
the villages would have access to the corridor and game.
MR. BRUCE replied nobody can originate travel from within the
corridor, but anybody can originate travel from outside the
corridor and cross it. This is not a legal limitation but a
practical limitation. He said,
While it is most feasible for folks that live in that
area to avail themselves of this provision, there's no
legal restriction, I don't believe, why other folks
couldn't do it, if they were in a position to take
advantage of it.
Number 0576
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Bruce whether he could cross the
corridor if he flew to one of the villages and rented a snow
machine.
MR. BRUCE replied, "Yes."
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Bruce whether he would have to
have a permit to take a caribou.
MR. BRUCE replied, "No." A hunt for caribou is based on seasons
and bag limits.
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Bruce, What about the taking of
muskox?
MR. BRUCE replied a hunt for muskox is based on a permitting
process.
Number 0650
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Bruce whether that permitting
process is open to all.
MR. BRUCE deferred the question to Mr. Doug Larsen of the
Department of Fish & Game.
Number 0669
DOUG LARSEN, Assistant Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation,
Department of Fish & Game, came before the committee to answer
Representative Cowdery's question. He noted that a hunt for muskox
is by permit. The take is limited to a harvest of four or five,
and locals have a priority.
Number 0693
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY commented that he can remember when buffalo
was hunted by permit in certain areas, but the permitting process
was open to all.
Number 0725
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Mr. Bruce whether he feels that the title is
tight enough so that it doesn't allow for travel to originate from
within the corridor.
MR. BRUCE replied he hopes so. The title appears to be pretty
specific, but it really is a question for the bill drafter.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Mr. Bruce whether an attempt to originate
travel from within the corridor would change the whole complexion
of the bill.
MR. BRUCE replied, "Yes." It would greatly change the character of
hunting in the area. It would probably result in a Tier II hunt,
which nobody likes.
Number 0835
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Bruce whether the effect of
allowing a certain group of people to hunt muskox violates the
constitution, for muskox are a resource and the constitution says
resources are to be shared by all.
MR. BRUCE replied this legislation deals strictly with allowing
snow machines to travel across the corridor. But if more people
availed themselves of the opportunity to hunt in that area, the
department would have to place restrictions, which would affect
everybody equally. A Tier II restriction, he noted, would be based
on the availability of alternative resources and a history of the
harvest of the resources. There would not be a place-of-residence
factor.
Number 0925
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY stated there is a restriction because of the
permitting process.
MR. BRUCE pointed out that the permitting process is outside the
provenance of the legislation. He's not sure how the permitting
process works; he would provide information to him later.
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY noted that he would also like to see
information on the constitutionality of the permitting process,
since the resource is not available to all.
Number 0968
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Mr. Bruce whether it's correct to say that
this legislation simply has to do with a person getting from Point
A to Point B, and that it doesn't matter whether the person is
traveling for gas or to hunt.
MR. BRUCE replied, "That is correct."
CHAIRMAN HALCRO closed the meeting to public testimony.
Number 1009
REPRESENTATIVE BEVERLY MASEK made a motion to move CSHB 205,
version 1-LS054\G, Utermohle, 5/4/99, out of committee with
individual recommendations and attached fiscal note; she asked
unanimous consent. There being no objection, CSHB 205(TRA) so
moved from the House Transportation Standing Committee.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO called for a brief at-ease then called the meeting
back to order.
HB 426 - TRANSFER OF RAILROAD LAND: CHUGACH PARK
CHAIRMAN HALCRO announced the next order of business as House Bill
426, "An Act relating to transfers of public land or grants or
conveyances of interest in public land among the Alaska Railroad
Corporation, the Department of Transportation and Public
Facilities, and the Department of Natural Resources to relocate or
widen the Seward Highway, to relocate railroad facilities, and to
relocate adjacent utility facilities; and providing for an
effective date." There is a proposed amendment by Representative
Halcro, which reads as follows:
Page 1, line 5
Insert "..relocate adjacent utility facilities from
Potter Station to Girdwood;"
Number 1062
DENNIS POSHARD, Legislative Liaison/Special Assistant, Office of
the Commissioner, Department of Transportation & Public Facilities,
came before the committee to present the bill. He explained that
the Department of Natural Resources has management responsibility
for the Chugach State Park, but they may not modify the boundaries
of the park without legislative approval. The purpose of the
proposed legislation, therefore, is to provide the Department of
Natural Resources the ability to work with the Department of
Transportation & Public Facilities, the Alaska Railroad
Corporation, and other utilities in order to modify, improve,
upgrade and enhance easements, as necessary, instead of coming to
the legislature for approval for each separate project. He noted
that the Department of Transportation & Public Facilities has four
or five future projects in the Seward Highway corridor within the
boundaries of the Chugach State Park between Potter Station and
Girdwood.
Number 1165
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked Mr. Poshard how the legislation would
affect the proposal for a rail spur in Girdwood, which is scheduled
to run along the west side of the valley. Is that part of the
Chugach State Park?
MR. POSHARD replied he's not sure. He deferred the question to a
representative of the Alaska Railroad Corporation. He has only
studied the Department of Transportation & Public Facilities'
projects.
Number 1211
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked Mr. Poshard whether Potter Station is
to the east of Potter Marsh.
MR. POSHARD replied Potter Station is to the southwest of Potter
Marsh on the boundary of the Chugach State Park.
Number 1236
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked Mr. Poshard whether any proposal to
widen the Seward Highway, for example, would affect the Division of
Parks & Outdoor Recreation [Department of Natural Resources].
MR. POSHARD replied he doesn't believe that Potter Marsh is within
the boundaries of the Chugach State Park.
Number 1277
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Mr. Poshard whether the Department of
Transportation & Public Facilities is "fine" with the proposed
amendment, which tightens the title and makes it consistent with
the text of the bill.
MR. POSHARD replied the department is fine with the proposed
amendment. It would not affect the department's projects.
Number 1316
CHAIRMAN HALCRO noted that the proposed amendment should actually
read as follows:
Page 1, line 5
After: "facilities"
Insert: "from Potter Station to Girdwood;"
Number 1337
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Poshard whether the legislation
would cover the requirement of the railroad to come before the
legislature for approval to dispose of land.
MR. POSHARD deferred the question to a representative of the Alaska
Railroad Corporation.
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked whether it's necessary to have a legal
description of what is being done to the land. This legislation is
pretty general.
MR. POSHARD answered, at this point in time, the projects are still
in the preliminary design stages. The specific tracts of land are
not available, which is why the department is asking that the
Department of Natural Resources have the authority to work with
them. It essentially amounts to a swapping of corridors.
Number 1445
WENDY LINDSKOOG, Director of External Affairs, Alaska Railroad
Corporation, Department of Community & Economic Development, came
before the committee to testify. She indicated that the
legislation is defined to land within the Chugach State Park and to
a corridor for the railroad. It has nothing to do with assets from
the federal government, as Representative Cowdery alluded to
earlier. There is a bill in the legislature now which deals with
that issue. She further indicated, in response to Representative
Kemplen's question, that this legislation would not affect the rail
spur in Girdwood, for that land is owned by the Heritage Land Bank
with the Municipality of Anchorage.
Number 1500
RON CRENSHAW, Marine Recreation & Trails, Central Office, Division
of Parks & Outdoor Recreation, Department of Natural Resources,
testified via teleconference from Anchorage. He announced that he
is here today to let the committee know that there is a
representative from the Division of Parks & Outdoor Recreation
available to answer any questions.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO closed the meeting to public testimony.
Number 1532
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON made a motion to adopt Amendment 1, as
amended. There being no objection, Amendment 1 was so adopted. It
reads as follows:
Page 1, line 5
After: "facilities"
Insert: "from Potter Station to Girdwood;"
Number 1553
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON made a motion to move HB 426, as amended, out
of committee with individual recommendations and attached zero
fiscal notes; he asked unanimous consent. There being no
objection, CSHB 426(TRA) so moved from the House Transportation
Standing Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, Chairman
Halcro adjourned the House Transportation Standing Committee
meeting at 1:35 p.m.
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