Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/10/1994 05:00 PM House TRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE
March 10, 1994
5:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Richard Foster, Chair
Representative Gary Davis, Vice-Chair
Representative Bill Hudson
Representative Curt Menard
Representative Eldon Mulder
Representative Al Vezey
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Jerry Mackie
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HB 330: "An Act relating to the use of natural gas as a
motor vehicle fuel in state owned vehicles."
CSHB 330 MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE
SB 82: "An Act relating to the Dalton Highway."
CSSB 82 MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE
WITNESS REGISTER
RAY LATCHEN
Northern Eclipse
1900 West Benson #100
Anchorage, Alaska 99517
274-7111
Position Statement: Provided input on HB 330
JEFF LOGAN, Staff
Representative Joe Green
Alaska State Legislature
Room 114, State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99811
465-2283
Position Statement: Presented HB 330 for sponsor
BRUCE CAMPBELL, Commissioner
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities
3132 Channel Drive
Juneau, Alaska 99801
465-3901
Position Statement: Provided DOT/PF position on CSSB 82
CHIP THOMA
2 Marine Way, #204
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Position Statement: Provided input on CSSB 82.
SENATOR STEVE FRANK
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Room 518
Juneau, Alaska 99801
465-3709
Position Statement: Sponsor of CSSB 82
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 330
SHORT TITLE: FUEL STATE AUTO FLEET WITH NATURAL GAS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) GREEN,Sanders
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/03/94 2013 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/10/94 2013 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/10/94 2013 (H) TRANSPORTATION, FINANCE
01/12/94 2042 (H) COSPONSOR(S): SANDERS
02/23/94 (H) MINUTE(ECO)
03/08/94 (H) TRA AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 17
03/08/94 (H) MINUTE(TRA)
BILL: SB 82
SHORT TITLE: OPENING THE DALTON HIGHWAY
BILL VERSION: CSSB 82(TRA)
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) FRANK,Sharp,Miller,Pearce,
Phillips,Taylor;REPRESENTATIVE(S) Brice
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/01/93 204 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/01/93 204 (S) TRANSPORTATION, FINANCE
02/16/93 (S) TRA AT 03:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211
02/16/93 (S) MINUTE(TRA)
02/18/93 (S) TRA AT 03:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211
02/18/93 (S) MINUTE(TRA)
02/23/93 (S) TRA AT 03:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211
02/23/93 (S) MINUTE(TRA)
02/25/93 (S) MINUTE(TRA)
02/26/93 501 (S) TRA RPT CS 2DP 1NR SAME TITLE
02/26/93 501 (S) FISCAL NOTES TO SB & CS
(DPS, F&G)
02/26/93 501 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTE TO SB & CS
(DOT)
03/17/93 (S) FIN AT 09:00 AM SENATE FINANCE
ROOM 518
03/17/93 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
03/22/93 895 (S) FIN RPT 4DP 3NR (TRA)CS
03/22/93 896 (S) FISCAL NOTE TO CS (S.FIN/DPS)
03/22/93 896 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTE TO CS (DNR)
03/22/93 896 (S) PREVIOUS FN APPLIES (F&G)
03/22/93 896 (S) PREVIOUS ZERO FN APPLIES (DOT)
03/22/93 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
03/23/93 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
04/05/93 1104 (S) RULES 3CAL 1DNP 4/5/93
04/05/93 1107 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME
04/05/93 1107 (S) TRA CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT
04/05/93 1107 (S) ADVANCE TO THIRD READING
FAILED Y11 N9
04/05/93 1108 (S) THIRD READING 4/6 CALENDAR
04/06/93 1207 (S) THIRD READING HELD TO 4/7
CALENDAR
04/07/93 1250 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB
82(TRA)
04/07/93 1250 (S) COSPONSOR(S): TAYLOR
04/07/93 1251 (S) LETTER OF INTENT #1 ADOPTED
Y13 N7
04/07/93 1252 (S) LETTER OF INTENT #2 ADOPTED
Y13 N7
04/07/93 1252 (S) PASSED Y11 N9
04/07/93 1253 (S) ADAMS NOTICE OF
RECONSIDERATION
04/08/93 1281 (S) RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD
READING
04/08/93 1281 (S) LETTER OF INTENT #1 ADOPTED
UNAN CON
04/08/93 1281 (S) LETTER OF INTENT #2 ADOPTED
UNAN CON
04/08/93 1281 (S) PASSED Y11 N8 E1
04/08/93 1282 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
04/08/93 1135 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
04/08/93 1135 (H) TRANSPORTATION, FINANCE
04/14/93 1242 (H) CROSS SPONSOR(S): BRICE
04/20/93 (H) TRA AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 17
04/22/93 (H) TRA AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 17
03/10/94 (H) TRA AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 17
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-11, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIR RICHARD FOSTER called the meeting to order at 5:05
p.m.
HB 330 - FUEL STATE AUTO FLEET WITH NATURAL GAS
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 330(TRA): "An Act relating to the use
of natural gas as a motor vehicle fuel in state-owned
vehicles and to the Department of Transportation and Public
Facilities' authority to participate in joint ventures
related to natural gas."
Number 004
REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS gave the subcommittee report on
the CS for HB 330, noting that the mandate had been removed
and the fiscal note subsequently reduced to zero. In
addition, "LPG" was not included because of its
pollutability.
Number 055
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS noted that the Department of
Transportation (DOT) amendment to the bill addressed the
concern over the mandate and the percentages originally
included in the bill by deleting the mandate while at the
same time ensuring that every effort is made to convert when
economically feasible. He also noted that the changes
resulted in a zero fiscal note.
Number 086
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER expressed confusion over whether the
fiscal note was in fact zero.
Number 090
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS responded that the DOT had indicated
so.
Number 094
REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER moved that the committee adopt
the CS for HB 330 in lieu of the original bill.
Number 095
CHAIR FOSTER asked if there were any objections. There were
none, and the CS for HB 330 was declared moved.
Number 099
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked how the apparent presence of more
carbon in LPG affects the emissions.
Number 106
MR. RAY LATCHEN identified himself as being with Northern
Eclipse, a company which specializes in alternative fuels.
He stated that the reason why propane is not as clean
burning as methane is because of the carbon content. The
carbon comes out in the form of carbon dioxide and carbon
monoxide; thus, the less carbon contained in the fuel, the
less carbon dioxide and monoxide coming out of the tailpipe.
He added that the ideal fuel would be hydrogen, which
contains no carbon -- but hydrogen is not yet available.
Number 131
REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY made the point that propane engines
are standard in the industrial industry.
Number 144
MR. JEFF LOGAN, Staff, Representative Joe Green, Prime
Sponsor of HB 330, pointed out that the CS contained new
language in the title.
Number 152
REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER moved that the Transportation
Committee move the CS for HB 330 with new fiscal notes from
the committee with individual recommendations.
Number 154
CHAIR FOSTER asked for objections. There were none, and
CSHB 330 was declared moved out of committee.
SB 82 - OPENING THE DALTON HIGHWAY
Number 174
CHAIR FOSTER announced that the next bill to be heard was
CSSB 82. He asked Commissioner Campbell to give the DOT
position on it.
Number 176
COMMISSIONER BRUCE CAMPBELL, Department of Transportation
and Public Facilities (DOT/PF), stated that he was
supportive of CSSB 82.
Number 184
MR. CHIP THOMA identified himself as a Juneauite who had the
opportunity, as a teamster, to drive the Dalton Highway in
the winters of 1974, 1975 and 1976, in a variety of
vehicles, and that he had found the condition of the road to
be such that opening it would create safety problems for
people unfamiliar with driving in winter conditions. He
concluded by warning that the state would have to look at
making conditions as safe as possible, but even so, it'd be
a safety hazard.
Number 240
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY commented that the Dalton Highway was a
superhighway back in 1974, 1975 and 1976.
Number 245
SENATOR STEVE FRANK, Prime Sponsor of SB 82, thanked the
committee for taking the time to hear the bill, and stated
that CSSB 82 would open the James Dalton Highway (North
Slope Haul Road) for public travel all the way to Prudhoe
Bay. Currently, he added, access past Disaster Creek, which
is about 200 miles south of Deadhorse, is limited to those
with a "commercial purpose." However, the entire length of
the road is maintained with state general fund monies.
Unlike our other highways, federal dollars may not be used
on the closed portion of the road because of its restricted
use. If the road is opened, the state could use federal
highway funds to upgrade the highway.
SENATOR FRANK made the point that the commissioner would be
able to close the road should safety problems arise, but his
concern was primarily to allow people to drive their own
road, including tourists. He hoped the DOT could work with
the oil companies which have the leases up there to gain
ocean access by the people. He concluded by once again
thanking the committee for its consideration, and asserting
his belief that people should be able to drive on the roads
that they own.
Number 340
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY made the point that there are federal
highway monies in the Yukon River bridge and so, by law,
that bridge must be kept open to the public.
Number 345
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER stated that it was his understanding
that if there are federal highway dollars involved, the
state may not charge a fee to use that particular road, and
asked if his understanding was correct.
Number 348
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL stated that a toll may be charged.
Number 352
CHAIR FOSTER asked how much federal dollars Alaska is losing
out on because of the restricted status of the road, and how
much more the federal government would pay if the road were
opened up for public use.
Number 355
REPRESENTATIVE CURT MENARD replied that we would get none,
because we've used all of the federal money that we're
getting now and we won't get any more; it will just be
allocated in another area.
Number 360
CHAIR FOSTER asked if there would be another threat of
lawsuit if this legislation passed.
Number 362
SENATOR FRANK responded that he didn't believe there would
be a threat, and the legal question would be whether or not
the administration has the legal authority to open the road
administratively, under their general authority.
Number 373
REPRESENTATIVE MENARD asked about the current permit policy
for traveling the road in the summer months.
Number 376
SENATOR FRANK responded that one may obtain a permit if one
has a commercial purpose, and people will claim they are
photographers, or give other phony reasons, and obtain
permits. He added that there is no checkpoint currently on
the road; there used to be one, but it has been defunded for
several years; and the way it currently stands, you can
either lie to get a permit or just ignore the requirement.
Number 390
REPRESENTATIVE MENARD stated that most of the renegades in
his district just go driving and then come back with their
moose or caribou. He then asked if the North Slope is gated
off at the oil companies' end and if there are fuel
facilities for the general public.
SENATOR FRANK responded that he believed there were fuel
facilities there, though the east and west docks may be
gated off.
Number 397
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated that the Dalton Highway goes to
the Deadhorse airport and community, which is all public
roads, but the oil company private roads are indeed locked
off and have security pass requirements. He added that
there are complete commercial services available in Prudhoe
Bay, including hundreds of hotel rooms, and the next spot
for commercial services is Coldfoot.
Number 412
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated that he had had the pleasure of
driving the haul road this summer and a couple of things had
struck him as being important. First, the tremendous
question of safety and who would respond to emergency
situations. His understanding was that the oil companies
were primarily the only ones available to respond to the
safety needs of the people, which brought up two questions.
Are the oil companies there to respond to disasters down the
road, or to man the pump stations? And, when they do
respond, do they assume some liability in their actions? He
said if the road is opened, the legislature simply must
provide the funds asked for in the bill, so that additional
troopers may be added, as well as Fish and Game people. He
concluded by wondering how DOT could give a zero fiscal note
and still assume that they will have the safety on the road.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY responded to Representative Hudson's
comments by stating that the maintenance required to
maintain a gravel surfaced road for commercial truck traffic
is above and beyond the maintenance that would be required
for passenger vehicles; if commercial vehicles can be safely
transited, than the smaller vehicles are more than
adequately taken care of. He added that the pump stations
really do refrain from providing services, though they do
provide communication.
Number 452
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON commented that pump station attendants
have participated in rescue operations, and his concern was
simply that there must be the establishment of some types of
essential services if the road is going to be open to the
public.
Number 464
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL added that he was the one involved in
the design of the road, so his interest is also personal.
He stated that Alaska's fourth worst snow pass is along the
Dalton Highway, so from the snow safety point of view he
doesn't consider this road to be nearly as bad as some of
the others which DOT keeps open year round. He asked that
people, when thinking about safety along the road, consider
how far it is from Willow to medical facilities along the
Parks Highway to Fairbanks, concluding that the highway
system in Alaska is faced many times with situations where
there are no medical or police facilities available for long
stretches.
Number 496
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY moved that the CS for SB 82 be moved
from the House Transportation Committee with individual
recommendations.
Number 502
REPRESENTATIVE MENARD stated that there are two troopers at
the intersection of the Talkeetna and Parks Highways.
Number 509
CHAIR FOSTER asked if there were any objections to the CS
for SB 82 being moved out of committee. There were none,
and he declared CSSB 82 to be moved out of committee.
Number 513
CHAIR FOSTER adjourned the meeting at 5:40 p.m.
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