01/23/2020 03:00 PM House STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB187 | |
| HJR15 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 187 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HJR 15 | TELECONFERENCED | |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
January 23, 2020
3:01 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Zack Fields, Co-Chair
Representative Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins, Co-Chair
Representative Grier Hopkins
Representative Andi Story
Representative Steve Thompson
Representative Sarah Vance
Representative Laddie Shaw
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Representative George Rauscher
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 187
"An Act relating to correctional facilities; relating to the
authority of the commissioner of corrections to designate the
correctional facility to which a prisoner is to be committed;
and providing for an effective date."
- HEARD AND HELD
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 15
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of
Alaska relating to actions upon veto.
- HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 187
SHORT TITLE: RESTRICT OUT-OF-STATE CORRECTIONAL FACIL.
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) FIELDS
01/21/20 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 1/10/20
01/21/20 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/21/20 (H) STA, FIN
01/23/20 (H) STA AT 3:00 PM GRUENBERG 120
BILL: HJR 15
SHORT TITLE: CONST. AM: VOTES NEEDED FOR VETO OVERRIDE
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) KREISS-TOMKINS
04/15/19 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
04/15/19 (H) STA, JUD, FIN
01/23/20 (H) STA AT 3:00 PM GRUENBERG 120
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE SHARON JACKSON
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 187.
NANCY DAHLSTROM, Commissioner
Department of Corrections (DOC)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions during the hearing on HB
187.
JOSHUA WILSON
Alaska Correctional Officers Association (ACOA)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information and testified in
support of HB 187.
JONATHAN PISTOTNIK, Coordinator
Anchorage Reentry Coalition
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Speaking on behalf of himself, provided
information and testified in support of HB 187.
ELIJAH VERHAGEN, Staff
Representative Sharon Jackson
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: On behalf of Representative Jackson,
reviewed the suggested amendment to HB 187.
KEVIN MCGOWAN, Staff
Representative Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HJR 15 on behalf of
Representative Kreiss-Tomkins, prime sponsor.
JOSIAH NASH, Intern
Representative Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information on HJR 15 on behalf of
Representative Kreiss-Tomkins, prime sponsor.
ACTION NARRATIVE
3:01:03 PM
CO-CHAIR JONATHAN KREISS-TOMKINS called the House State Affairs
Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:01 p.m.
Representatives Hopkins, Story, Thompson, Vance, Shaw, Fields,
and Kreiss-Tomkins were present at the call to order. Also
present was Representative Rauscher.
HB 187-RESTRICT OUT-OF-STATE CORRECTIONAL FACIL.
3:02:01 PM
CO-CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS announced that the first order of
business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 187, "An Act relating to
correctional facilities; relating to the authority of the
commissioner of corrections to designate the correctional
facility to which a prisoner is to be committed; and providing
for an effective date."
3:02:49 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SHARON JACKSON, Alaska State Legislature,
testified that she supports the proposed legislation; it is
important to keep Alaskans in their home state in which they
will eventually reenter society. She suggested an amendment to
HB 187 to allow a third exemption under which the commissioner
of the Department of Corrections (DOC) could send non-Alaska
prisoners and prisoners sentenced to serve 99-plus years out of
Alaska, if doing so constitutes significant savings [to the
state].
3:04:21 PM
CO-CHAIR FIELDS, as prime sponsor of HB 187, presented the
proposed legislation with the use of a PowerPoint presentation.
He relayed that HB 187 would prohibit sending Alaska prisoners
out of state or to private prisons. He turned to slide 2 of the
PowerPoint presentation on HB 187 and stated that the only
exceptions would be for limited circumstances: an inmate needs
to be transferred out of state for specialized medical treatment
not available in Alaska; for extradition of an inmate not from
Alaska; or an inmate's family has moved out of state. Other
than for these exceptions, HB 187 would prevent privatization of
prisons within Alaska and the transfer of prisoners to out-of-
state private prisons.
CO-CHAIR FIELDS moved on to slide 3 and noted that the proposed
legislation would be consistent with the legislature's past
efforts - notably Senate Bill 64 [passed during the Twenty-Third
Alaska State Legislature, (2003-2004)] - when the legislature,
in a bipartisan action, ended the practice of sending prisoners
out of state because of the negative effects of doing so -
namely, bringing gangs back to Alaska.
CO-CHAIR FIELDS relayed that last year the legislature passed HB
49 [during the Thirty-First Alaska State Legislature, (2019-
2020), signed into law 7/8/19], which strengthened sentencing
and improved reentry programs. He maintained that HB 187 would
ensure the provision of reentry programs to Alaska prisoners;
DOC staff is committed to rehabilitation and reentry programs;
there are rehabilitation and reentry coalitions throughout the
state. He asserted that the reentry coalitions cannot perform
their tasks, if the prisoners are out of state.
3:06:45 PM
CO-CHAIR FIELDS stated that the practice of sending prisoners
Outside decades ago began, perhaps, innocently enough as a
temporary solution; however, it "metastasized" and became very
difficult to bring those prisoners back to Alaska. He advocated
for the state to be consistent with the policies of [former]
Governor Frank Murkowski and former legislators, who funded the
construction of Goose Creek Correctional Center (GCCC)
[Wasilla]. He referred to a quote by Governor Murkowski, shown
on slide 3, which read:
Over a decade of gridlock has led to the failure to
improve of what was supposed to be a temporary
solution of sending prisoners to Arizona?finally, this
bill will generate good paying, long term jobs for
Alaskans and end the export of over $14 million per
year to Arizona.
CO-CHAIR FIELDS mentioned that the reopening of Palmer
Correctional Center (PCC) represents almost 100 jobs. He asked,
"Are we going to have these jobs for Alaskans - largely in the
[Matanuska-Susitna] Valley or are we going to have those jobs be
Outside?"
CO-CHAIR FIELDS referred to slide 4 to give additional
background on private prisons in Alaska, which read:
? As Governor Murkowski noted, Alaskan public dollars
should stay in Alaska.
? Despite SB 65, private prisons lobbied for earmarks
and public dollars through 2007 and were implicated in
the VECO scandal.
? By 2007, four cities have voted against establishing
such prisons within their limits: Anchorage (2019 and
1997) Delta Junction (1999), Kenai (2001), and
Whittier (2005).
?Legislature appropriated $16.7m to reopen Palmer
Correctional Center (PCC) in 12 months.
?In the 12/11/19 HSTA hearing, internal DoC documents
show that staff estimated that PCC Medium facility in
9 months for $14.5m, and entire facility in 12 months
for $21m.
CO-CHAIR FIELDS stated that the understaffing of private prisons
leads to the formation of gangs. He turned to slide 5 to
address the public safety risks of private prisons, which read:
In 12/11/19 HSTA Hearing, ACOA President Randy
McLellan noted that Alaskans placed in private prisons
in Arizona and Colorado were forced to join gangs or
seek protection from gangs in private prisons.
? ACOA noted that at least three gangs were brought
back from private prisons:
The Low Lifes, a NY based prison gang.
The 1488s, a white supremacist prison gang.
The Native Brotherhood, formed to protect
Alaska Native prisoners sent to prisons in the
Lower 48.
First-hand accounts from reentry experts and former
prisoners show that Alaskan prisoners faced
discrimination and threats because of racial injustice
and gangs.
CO-CHAIR FIELDS maintained that the rehabilitation and reentry
programs at out-of-state private prisons will never be as strong
as at PCC. He referred to the 12/11/19 House State Affairs
Standing Committee meeting testimonies summarized on slide 6,
which read:
?Corrections Officer Josh Wilson of Alaska
Correctional Officers Assoc. noted that elimination of
rehabilitation and reentry opportunities will increase
costs: 2017 Alaska Justice Information Center Survey
of Reentry Efforts, every avoided conviction saves
between $100-$150k dollars per conviction.
? Chet Adkins, Reentry Coordinator and South-Central
Foundation Men's Wellness Expert described his
experience as an Alaska Native prisoner: he described
private prisons' elimination of cultural programs such
as potlucks, reentry programs such as craft shops, and
removal of counselors.
? The State of Alaska will still have to incur
transportation costs to these remote prisons and will
still be responsible for certain forms of medical
care.
? Chet Adkins also described in his letters how he
witnessed delayed or denied prisoner healthcare,
resulting in death or debilitating lifelong conditions
for multiple prisoners.
CO-CHAIR FIELDS explained that to have successful reentry, a
prisoner must stay connected to his/her family while
incarcerated. As the prisoner's release approaches, he/she
needs to be working with reentry coalition personnel on housing,
treatment, and employment. Representative Fields maintained
that coordinating these services is impossible when prisoners
are out of state. He added that the reentry activities do not
occur just before a prisoner is released; community non-profits
provide "inreach" to inmates throughout their incarceration; it
is especially important for long-term inmates, who can receive
training during their prison stay.
3:10:59 PM
CO-CHAIR FIELDS maintained that prohibiting the transfer of
prisoners out of state would be consistent with actions of both
the federal government and other states. He turned to slide 7,
which read:
?In 2016, the U.S. Dept of Justice decided to end use
of private prisons following an administrative survey.
?Concerns centered around rampant safety issues: of
the private prisons contracted with the Bureau of
Prisons (BOP), the survey found higher incidents in
all categories measured: contraband, lockdowns, inmate
discipline, sexual misconduct and more.
?BOP report found they do not provide the same level
of services, safety, or rehabilitative programs.
CO-CHAIR FIELDS added that inmates who testified during the
12/11/19 hearing related that there are more drugs infiltrating
private prisons because prison guards are not well compensated,
therefore, easily bribed to bring drugs into the prison.
CO-CHAIR FIELDS moved on to slide 8 to discuss the actions of
other states, which read:
?June 11th, 2019: NV Governor Steve Sisolak signs AB
183, prohibiting state from entering or renewing
contract with private, for-profit prison companies.
?22 other states do not use private prisons or
prohibit their use.
? Since 2000, New York, Illinois, Iowa, Arkansas,
Kentucky, Maine, Michigan, Nevada, North Dakota, Utah
and Wisconsin have all prohibited their use.
CO-CHAIR FIELDS cited Florida's experience with private prisons
as summarized on slide 9, which read:
July 2019: Florida state accountability office ordered
to perform study on Correctional Health Care in
Florida Dept of Corrections (FDC):
? This study, by an independent auditor,
recommended the state end its private healthcare
contract.
The estimated savings of doing so could reach
as high as $40-46 million a year.
? It noted that while cost savings appeared in
the short term, consistent service that met
contractual obligations was hard to meet-leading
to contractor turnover, and terminated contracts,
increased inmate health and safety risks and
increased litigation.
?The same study recognizes Alaska's own system
(state operated) as more inherently stable for
attracting and retaining staff.
3:12:17 PM
REPRESENTATIVE STORY asked the commissioner of DOC why the
legislative intent to open PCC was not followed.
3:13:09 PM
NANCY DAHLSTROM, Commissioner, Department of Corrections (DOC),
thanked Representative Fields for his praises of the employees
of DOC. She relayed that the DOC population has grown and is
continuing to grow with the implementation of HB 49; she expects
the trend to continue; currently the population is at 97.3
percent. She mentioned the Request for Proposal (RFP) issued by
DOC in October to house prisoners out of state. She stated that
today she is announcing publicly that she has signed a notice of
cancellation for that RPF. She relayed that from the beginning,
the RFP was just one of the tools that she was considering to
address prison population management; the department has been
consistently looking at any and all viable alternative options;
and it has been able to identify in-state solutions to address
the growing prison population and provide immediate relief to
the burdened system.
3:15:27 PM
REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON asked how many prison beds in Alaska are
filled by prisoners who are waiting to be tried, and of those
prisoners, how many are non-violent, of no risk to society, and
could be released with ankle monitors.
COMMISSIONER DAHLSTROM responded that over 51 percent of
Alaska's prison population is unsentenced. She said that she
does not know how many are violent. She offered that the
department has requested the Department of Law (DOL) and the
Alaska Court System (ACS) to institute changes to address the
large number of unsentenced prisoners.
3:16:51 PM
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE asked the commissioner to identify the in-
state solutions.
COMMISSIONER DAHLSTROM answered that DOC is working on
developing a community resource center (CRC) and turning it into
a pilot reentry project; the specifics are still being
determined. She maintained that reentry is extremely important
and expressed her belief that the pilot will be successful. She
added that DOC is beginning the process of addressing the [fire
and life safety] issues at PCC to open that facility.
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE asked for a timeline for the pilot project
and a timeline for [addressing] the safety issues to open PCC.
COMMISSIONER DAHLSTROM replied that it would take 90 days for
the pilot to be implemented and 12-18 months to complete the
work at PCC.
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE asked for a current status on the number of
correctional officers (COs) needed to maintain safety.
COMMISSIONER DAHLSTROM responded that DOC has 90 open CO
positions; in all, DOC has 900 employees. She mentioned good
successes with recruiting efforts, which involve recruiting for
probation officers, parole officers, medical personnel, clerical
workers, and maintenance workers. She described DOC's
recruiting efforts: DOC now has a $5,000 hiring bonus for new
COs; it has identified new target audiences; it has expanded its
outreach; it is coordinating with the Department of Labor and
Workforce Development (DOLWD) to attend job fairs and provide
DOC employees to answer questions at the job fairs. She said
that DOC has been reviewing and modifying its hiring process to
identify the barriers and to shorten the timeline for hiring.
Each facility has a contact person to update applicants on the
status of their applications.
3:21:18 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUCHER stated that the commissioner's
announcement is good news for his district - District 9 - where
PCC is located. He mentioned his past involvement with the
prison system. He expressed the importance of a rehabilitation
policy - to the state, to the inmates, to the success of
reentry, and to recidivism. He maintained that PCC is an
important piece in rehabilitation because of what it offers. He
offered that the problem is not just crime but how the state
treats those who are convicted and ultimately released.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER mentioned that the Department of Public
Safety (DPS) was allocated $250,000 for the recruitment of
police officers, which has been successful for hiring. He asked
whether that level of funding would be available for DOC to fill
CO positions and whether PCC would be involved.
3:25:58 PM
COMMISSIONER DAHLSTROM replied, "If the legislature would like
to add any recruitment dollars to my budget, that is totally
your call, but I would be thrilled with that happening." She
stated that she asked for funds to assist with recruitment, but
not $250,000. She reiterated that reentry is extremely
important; nationwide, people are realizing the value and
importance of reentry; DOC wants inmates to be better when they
are released than when they entered.
CO-CHAIR FIELDS mentioned that he has discussed this with the
chair of the [House Corrections] Finance subcommittee to explore
additional funding for the recruitment of COs.
3:27:10 PM
REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON asked whether a CO wage survey has been
performed.
COMMISSIONER DAHLSTROM answered that she would provide the date
of the last survey.
3:27:59 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SHAW restated that DOC is short 90 COs, 80 are
needed to reopen PCC, and according to testimony at a DOC
overview, only 15 applicants make it through the recruiting
"pipeline" each year. He asked, "How can we possibly fill that
void at the PCC?"
COMMISSIONER DAHLSTROM stated that she feels confident - with
the changes that have been made internally - that DOC will have
enough officers to open PCC. She clarified that although there
are challenging hiring requirements, DOC's hiring success record
is more than 15 new hires per year. She said that as of today,
there are 15 new officers with start dates.
3:30:00 PM
CO-CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS opened invited testimony.
3:30:23 PM
JOSHUA WILSON, Alaska Correctional Officers Association (ACOA),
applauded Commissioner Dahlstrom's decision to cancel the DOC
RFP and not utilize private prisons. It is a decision that will
promote public safety and will protect Alaskans. He stated that
incarcerating Alaskans in out-of-state private prisons -
thousands of miles from their homes, communities, and support
systems - will result in more crime and more victims in Alaska
communities. Private prisons have failed to [do a better job
of] facilitating rehabilitation and treatment of incarcerated
Alaskans in the past because of their low standards. Given the
opportunity, they will fail again. He suggested that
incarcerating Alaskans in private prisons equated to sending
Alaskans to "crime school." Three of Alaska's worst gangs were
created when Alaskans were housed in private prisons - the Low
Life's, the 1488s, and the Native Brotherhood. Alaska tried
private prisons; the results were horrific; doing so gave Alaska
one of the highest recidivism rates in the country. He stated
that the 2016 U.S. Department of Justice (USDOJ) review into the
use of private prisons, [entitled "Review of the Federal Bureau
of Prisons' Monitoring of Contract Prisons"], found that private
prisons simply do not provide the same level of correctional
services, programs, and resources; they do not substantially
save on cost; and as noted in the review, they do not maintain
the same level of safety and security.
MR. WILSON emphasized that private prisons do not save money;
they increase recidivism, which increases victimization; they
endanger Alaskans; and they shift cost to the state. Best
practices include keeping prisoners close to home; any Alaskans
held in private prisons in the Lower 48 will lose visitation.
In 2018, President Trump signed a bipartisan bill that requires
federal prisoners be incarcerated no more than 500 miles from
their primary residence; any Alaskans sent to private prisons in
the Lower 48 would be farther than 500 miles from home. He
stated that private prisons lengthen incarceration stays by
adding prison conduct violation [time]; they hold inmates about
90 days longer than state prisons. He maintained that prison
terms should be determined by a judge in court; private prisons
should not be allowed to increase their profit margins by
extending a prisoner's sentence, resulting in increased costs
for Alaska. Mr. Wilson said that private prisons "cherry-pick"
prisoners by excluding those with medical conditions, violent
prisoners, and sex offenders. Private prisons have reduced
safety and security; there are fewer prisoner checks, fewer
staff, less transparency, and lower standards for staff.
Medical expenses are often transferred to the state;
transportation costs are borne by the state; administrative and
litigation costs are additional. He mentioned the greater
economic impact to communities - the millions of dollars being
spent out of state, lost jobs, increased crime, and
victimization. He said that victimization cannot be viewed in
just economic terms; it impacts quality of life, tourism, and
economic growth.
MR. WILSON stated that if a recruitment and retention campaign
were initiated today utilizing the funds that the legislature
appropriated for PCC, the minimum security section could be
operational within five months and the medium security section
operational within nine months, according to DOC's own analysis
from the spring of 2019. When GCCC was opened, DOC staff
increased by 100 COs in a 10-month period - between 2012 and
2013. In comparison, DPS has a budget of over $1.6 million for
recruitment and advertising for a department of 761 employees.
The DOC does not have a dedicated recruitment team made up of
officers - as does the Anchorage Police Department (APD) and DPS
- and DOC does not have a budget component for either
recruitment or advertising. In addition, officer applicants
currently must pay for their own medical screenings; troopers
and APD applicants do not. He maintained that the barriers to
recruitment have resulted in fewer COs. Currently there are
over two dozen fewer COs compared with one year ago.
MR. WILSON concluded his testimony by once again applauding the
decision to cancel the RFP for the use of private prisons. He
said that on multiple occasions, Alaskans decided that private
prisons do not make sense for Alaska and voted against them. He
asserted that Alaskans deserve better than being warehoused
2,000 miles away with no interaction with their families,
village elders, and mentors to help them become productive
members of their cities, towns, and villages. Alaska should
heed the lessons it has already learned. Private prisons are
interested only in increasing the profits to their shareholders;
they do not save Alaska money; and they degrade public safety.
He stated that ACOA supports the passage of [HB 187], which will
protect all Alaskans.
3:36:42 PM
JONATHAN PISTOTNIK, Coordinator, Anchorage Reentry Coalition,
stated that he is speaking on behalf of himself. He applauded
DOC's repeal of the RFP and offered the following statement
(original punctuation provided):
Good Afternoon, for the record my name is Jonathan
Pistotnik. I am a resident of Anchorage. Although I
have many partners in the community that I believe
share some of my sentiments I am just speaking for
myself this afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity
to speak.
I am stating my support for HB 187.
As someone that helps support prisoner reentry into
the community on a full-time basis as the coordinator
for the Anchorage reentry coalition, I believe that
the sending of inmates out of state to private prisons
will be detrimental.
Detrimental to those individuals sent out of state to
be further isolated and removed from their homes and
culture; detrimental to the families of the
individuals sent out of state, to the wives and
children and parents; and detrimental to those of us
engaged in prisoner reentry work throughout Alaska and
the communities that will bear the burden of
rehabilitation.
I support this house bill and it's [sic] efforts to
keep state inmates in Alaska.
Although I have many concerns about the states [sic]
intent to send more than 500 Alaskans out of state I
would like to make just 2 brief points.
Although I am mainly engaged in community organizing
around the topic of prisoner reentry, I do go into
correctional institutions, when I can, to educate
inmates about reentry programs and services that are
available in the community, and in doing so I hope to
motivate and encourage them to seek out services that
they may need when they are released and to answer
questions to the best of my ability.
Education, awareness, motivation, encouragement, the
building trust in those short visits I am afforded are
key to my work and that of my partners in the
community that make similar efforts to engage with
inmates prior to their release.
Drawing upon my background in public health I believe
that it takes time to build that trust and knowledge
necessary to make real change in this context. So how
will those of us engaging in and promoting reentry be
able to meaningfully engage with someone that is
housed in a prison thousands of miles away in Arizona
or Colorado for 5, 10 years?
I can't help but think that it will be a serious step
backwards for those of us in the community that are
engaged in this work if men are sent out of state with
no opportunity to hear our messaging.
The second concern that I have is the exposure to
prison gang culture that is likely to occur when
Alaskan inmates are sent to facilities that are
warehousing inmates from other states.
I have never been privy to a discussion or meeting
amongst my reentry partners in Anchorage in which gang
affiliation has ever been a practical concern of ours
when working with someone that has been released from
incarceration.
The only time it comes up is when there is reflection
on the last time inmates were sent outside and how it
bolstered the small-time cliques that were here.
This is because prison gang culture and street gang
culture does not exist in Alaska in the same way it
does in the lower 48. In the parlance of the streets,
it just isn't as hardcore in Alaska or in Anchorage.
My concern is that if men are sent out of state and
warehoused in private prisons where they will be
exposed to prison and street gang cultures, and either
learn or be forced to adopt that type of lifestyle,
when they return (and they will return) they will
bring that gang culture back with them.
And as we know 95% of inmates are eventually released
so my concern is that gang culture will eventually
permeate into the community, and very simply make
everyone less safe.
In closing I want to reiterate my support for HB 187
and any efforts that the legislature proposes, or DOC
for that matter, to keep Alaskans in Alaska.
Thank you.
3:41:48 PM
REPRESENTATIVE STORY asked that the request for a survey on
wages include benefits as well. She referred to the
commissioner's testimony that 51 percent of the people in Alaska
facilities are unsentenced and that a request was sent to DOL.
She asked for more information and possible solutions.
CO-CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS expressed that the 51 percent statistic
is shocking - that is, half the prison population is not
sentenced. He suggested more discussion in future committee
meetings.
3:43:02 PM
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE asked whether HB 187 would limit the
state's ability to transport prisoners within the state.
CO-CHAIR FIELDS answered no.
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE asked for a definition of facility as it
relates to public safety and [Alaska Native] tribes in the rural
villages. She said that the state often contracts with
municipalities and other entities for the use of their prisons
to house prisoners before transporting them to a better
facility. She asked whether the facilities being used on a
temporary basis would be considered public and, therefore, not
excluded under HB 187. She expressed her concern that the
proposed legislation considers the tribes, as they are under a
different law jurisdiction.
CO-CHAIR FIELDS replied that the intent clearly was to not
preclude such arrangements that exist currently through public
entities; he expressed his belief that tribes of sovereign
governments would be considered public. He offered to confirm
this with Legislative Legal Services.
3:45:22 PM
CO-CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS invited staff to Representative Jackson
to discuss the amendment that the representative wishes the
committee to consider.
ELIJAH VERHAGEN, Staff, Representative Sharon Jackson, Alaska
State Legislature, on behalf of Representative Jackson, reviewed
the suggested amendment to HB 187, which read:
Page 2, line 7:
Delete "or"
Page 2, line 9, following "prisoner":
Insert "; or
(3) to reduce the cost of housing a
prisoner who is not a resident of the state or who has
been sentenced to a term or aggregate term of
imprisonment of 99 years or more"
Page 3, line 2:
Delete "or"
Page 3, line 4, following "considerations":
Insert "; or
(C) would reduce the cost of housing a
prisoner who is not a resident of the state or who has
been sentenced to a term or aggregate term of
imprisonment of 99 years or more"
MR. VERHAGEN explained that the suggested change under the
amendment would add another exclusion to the requirement to
house Alaska prisoners in state; that exclusion would be in
order "to reduce the cost of housing a prisoner who is not a
resident of the state or who has been sentenced to a term or
aggregate term of imprisonment of 99 years or more". He added
that the amendment would not require the commissioner to
transfer the prisoner out of state, but it would be an option.
He mentioned that the "99 years" was offered by Legislative
Legal Services; these are prisoners who are not likely to ever
be released; in Alaska they number 200.
CO-CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS indicated HB 187 would be held over.
3:48:49 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 3:48 p.m. to 3:51 p.m.
CO-CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS passed the gavel to Co-Chair Fields.
HJR 15-CONST. AM: VOTES NEEDED FOR VETO OVERRIDE
3:51:03 PM
CO-CHAIR FIELDS announced that the final order of business would
be HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 15, Proposing an amendment to the
Constitution of the State of Alaska relating to actions upon
veto.
3:51:17 PM
KEVIN MCGOWAN, Staff, Representative Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins, on
behalf of Representative Kreiss-Tomkins, prime sponsor of HJR
15, relayed that the proposed constitutional amendment would
lower the veto override threshold for appropriation bills from
three-fourths of legislators - 45 votes - to two-thirds of
legislators, or 40 votes. He said that currently veto overrides
of non-appropriation bills in Alaska require two-thirds of
legislators. He stated that HJR 15 would create a uniform veto
override vote threshold for appropriation and non-appropriation
bills. He maintained that Alaska's threshold is
disproportionate to every other U.S. state and territory; it is
the highest threshold.
3:52:26 PM
JOSIAH NASH, Intern, Representative Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins, on
behalf of Representative Kreiss-Tomkins, prime sponsor of HJR
15, relayed that Alaska is the only state in the union with a
three-fourths veto override vote threshold for appropriation
bills. Every other state has a two-thirds, three-fifths, or
simple majority vote threshold. He referred to a graphic
summary [not included in the committee packet] of the
information provided to the committee on veto override vote
thresholds by state [Table 98-6.22 Vote Required to Override a
Veto of Selected Types of Bills, National Conference of State
Legislatures]. He said that 38 states have a two-thirds
threshold, 6 have a three-fifths threshold, and 5 have a simple
majority threshold; that leaves Alaska as the only state with a
high three-fourths vote threshold.
3:53:28 PM
CO-CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS stated that he introduced the proposed
resolution before there had been any vetoes in the last budget
cycle [fiscal year 2020 (FY 20)]. He offered that the veto
override vote threshold in the Alaska State Constitution is an
anomaly, and through the proposed resolution, he is seeking to
avoid the "train wreck coming down the tracks." He relayed that
despite varying points of view on the budget last year [2019]
and on whether the vetoes should have been overridden, Alaska is
"way out of line" from the rest of the country. He said that
the Alaska Territorial Legislature had a two-thirds veto
override vote threshold for all measures - appropriations and
non-appropriations. He offered that in the minutes of the
Alaska Constitutional Convention, there was a great deal of
discussion on this issue and two camps of thinking. The "three-
fourths camp" won by a vote in the Alaska Constitutional
Convention; however, the very concerns put forth by those
advocating for a two-thirds vote have existed throughout history
in Alaska whenever the legislative branch of government has
sought to put a check on the executive branch of government. He
offered that having a three-fourths threshold essentially gives
the executive branch and its administration a blank check to
execute its agenda and vision through the "veto pen." He
suggested that if an environmental governor two terms from now
wanted to end the mining industry in Alaska and line-item veto
the Division of Mining, Land, and Water in the Department of
Natural Resources (DNR) budget, that governor would likely be
able to do that because the override veto threshold is so
incredibly high. Regardless of the person [at the top of] the
executive branch and the administration, there is a clear
imbalance in the separation of powers in Alaska, and HJR 15
seeks to re-balance the separation of powers.
3:56:28 PM
REPRESENTATIVE STORY expressed her belief that it is important
to have public input on the proposed resolution.
CO-CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS relayed that whenever a constitutional
framework has two different override thresholds - one for
appropriation measures and one for non-appropriation measures -
it inherently creates constitutional ambiguity about what
constitutes an appropriation and what does not. A uniform flat
override threshold avoids that ambiguity. He mentioned that in
the '90s, then Governor Tony Knowles vetoed a bill from the
legislature that gave the University of Alaska a large land
grant. The legislature mustered a two-thirds vote to override
the veto, but not a three-fourths vote. Governor Knowles
rejected the override calling the legislation an appropriation
bill. The legislature contended that it was not an
appropriation bill and sued the governor. The Alaska Supreme
Court found in favor of the legislature. He concluded that not
having a flat uniform threshold, but having two categories of
override thresholds, creates ambiguity, and it's the lawyers who
profit.
REPRESENTATIVE SHAW asked for confirmation that at the Alaska
Constitutional Convention, the threshold was originally two-
thirds vote for all measures.
CO-CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS responded that the Alaska Territorial
Legislature - before statehood - had a flat two-thirds
threshold. At the Alaska Constitutional Convention there was
debate on the topic; some delegates advocated for two-thirds,
some for three-fourths. The three-fourths camp won the debate.
REPRESENTATIVE SHAW mentioned that Article II, Section 16, of
the constitution was amended in 1976 and asked for the specifics
of that amendment.
CO-CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS answered that he did not know but would
have that information at the next hearing.
CO-CHAIR FIELDS indicated HJR 15 would be held over.
4:00:51 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
State Affairs Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 4:00
p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HJR 15 v. M 1.21.2020.PDF |
HJUD 2/5/2020 1:45:00 PM HJUD 2/7/2020 1:45:00 PM HJUD 2/10/2020 1:00:00 PM HSTA 1/23/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HJR 15 |
| HJR 15 Sponsor Statement 1.21.2020.pdf |
HJUD 2/5/2020 1:45:00 PM HJUD 2/7/2020 1:45:00 PM HJUD 2/10/2020 1:00:00 PM HSTA 1/23/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HJR 15 |
| HJR 15 Sectional Analysis v. M 1.21.2020.pdf |
HJUD 2/5/2020 1:45:00 PM HJUD 2/7/2020 1:45:00 PM HJUD 2/10/2020 1:00:00 PM HSTA 1/23/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HJR 15 |
| HJR 15 Supporting Document - NCSL Table 1.21.2020.pdf |
HJUD 2/5/2020 1:45:00 PM HJUD 2/7/2020 1:45:00 PM HJUD 2/10/2020 1:00:00 PM HSTA 1/23/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HJR 15 |
| HB 187 Ver E 1.22.2020.PDF |
HSTA 1/23/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HB 187 |
| HB 187 Sponsor Statement ver E 1.22.2020.pdf |
HSTA 1/23/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HB 187 |
| HB 187 Sectional Analysis 1.21.2020.pdf |
HSTA 1/23/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HB 187 |
| HB 187 Supporting Document ACOA 10.17.19 Letter to Governor Dunleavy 1.21.2020.pdf |
HSTA 1/23/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HB 187 |
| HB 187 Supporting Documents 2016 US DOJ Memo Ending Private Prisons 1.22.2020.pdf |
HSTA 1/23/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HB 187 |
| HB 187 Supporting Document-ACOA Private Prisons Book 1.22.2020.pdf |
HSTA 1/23/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HB 187 |
| HB 187 Supporting Document-News Clip-California bans private prisons 1.22.2020.pdf |
HSTA 1/23/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HB 187 |
| HB 187 Supporting Document-ADN News Clip 1.22.2020.pdf |
HSTA 1/23/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HB 187 |
| HJR 15 Presentation 1.21.2020.pdf |
HSTA 1/23/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HJR 15 |
| HB 187 Supporting Document Anchorage Resolution 1.23.2020.pdf |
HSTA 1/23/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HB 187 |
| HB 187 PPT 1.22.2020.pdf |
HSTA 1/23/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HB 187 |