03/06/2012 08:00 AM House STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB89 | |
| HJR38 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 89 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HJR 38 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
March 6, 2012
8:07 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Wes Keller, Vice Chair
Representative Paul Seaton
Representative Peggy Wilson
Representative Pete Petersen
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Bob Lynn, Chair
Representative Max Gruenberg
Representative Kyle Johansen
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
COMMITTEE SUBSTITUTE FOR SENATE BILL NO. 89(JUD)
"An Act clarifying that a legislator or legislative employee is
allowed to accept certain refrain from disclosure under the
Legislative Ethics Act; relating to the applicability of
compassionate gifts; allowing legislators and legislative
employees who are representing certain provisions of the
Legislative Ethics Act to certain legislative employees, persons
in an administrative hearing to contact hearing officers and
attempt to influence volunteers, and interns; establishing a
seat for an alternate public member on the Select the outcome of
the hearing if they are professionals licensed in the state, and
allowing Committee on Legislative Ethics; clarifying the
requirements related to participation by legislators and
legislative employees who are not professionals licensed in the
state to alternate public members and alternate legislative
members in the proceedings of the contact hearing officers for
the purpose of influencing the outcome of the hearing in
committee; amending the definition of 'legislative employee' in
the Legislative Ethics certain instances; requiring the Select
Committee on Legislative Ethics to maintain a Act; and repealing
a procedure for appointment of alternate legislative members."
- MOVED HCS CSSB 89(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 38
Requesting the United States Congress to call a Constitutional
Convention to propose an amendment to the Constitution of the
United States requiring approval of a majority of state
legislatures to increase the federal debt limit.
- HEARD & HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 89
SHORT TITLE: LEGISLATIVE ETHICS ACT
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) COGHILL
02/16/11 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/16/11 (S) STA, JUD
03/15/11 (S) STA AT 9:00 AM BUTROVICH 205
03/15/11 (S) Heard & Held
03/15/11 (S) MINUTE(STA)
03/31/11 (S) STA AT 9:00 AM BUTROVICH 205
03/31/11 (S) Moved CSSB 89(STA) Out of Committee
03/31/11 (S) MINUTE(STA)
04/01/11 (S) STA RPT CS 1DP 4NR NEW TITLE
04/01/11 (S) DP: MEYER
04/01/11 (S) NR: WIELECHOWSKI, KOOKESH, PASKVAN,
GIESSEL
04/11/11 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
04/11/11 (S) Scheduled But Not Heard
04/13/11 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
04/13/11 (S) Scheduled But Not Heard
04/15/11 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
04/15/11 (S) Heard & Held
04/15/11 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
01/18/12 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
01/18/12 (S) Heard & Held
01/18/12 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
01/27/12 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
01/27/12 (S) Moved CSSB 89(JUD) Out of Committee
01/27/12 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
01/30/12 (S) JUD RPT CS 3DP NEW TITLE
01/30/12 (S) DP: FRENCH, COGHILL, PASKVAN
02/08/12 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
02/08/12 (S) VERSION: CSSB 89(JUD)
02/09/12 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
02/09/12 (H) <Bill Hearing Rescheduled to 02/16/12>
02/10/12 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/10/12 (H) STA, JUD
02/16/12 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
02/16/12 (H) Heard & Held
02/16/12 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/06/12 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HJR 38
SHORT TITLE: US CONST AM: FEDERAL DEBT LIMIT
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) KELLER
02/20/12 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/20/12 (H) STA
03/06/12 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
WITNESS REGISTER
RYNNIEVA MOSS, Staff
Senator John Coghill
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SB 89 on behalf of Senator
Coghill, sponsor.
JOYCE ANDERSON, Administrator
Select Committee on Legislative Ethics
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered information regarding a proposed
amendment during the hearing on SB 89.
JIM POUND, Staff
Representative Wes Keller
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions during the hearing on
HJR 38, on behalf of Representative Keller, sponsor.
SHEILA FINKENBINDER
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on behalf of herself during the
hearing on HJR 38.
ACTION NARRATIVE
8:07:17 AM
VICE CHAIR WES KELLER called the House State Affairs Standing
Committee meeting to order at 8:07 a.m. Representatives Seaton,
P. Wilson, Petersen, and Keller were present at the call to
order.
SB 89-LEGISLATIVE ETHICS ACT
8:07:56 AM
VICE CHAIR KELLER announced that the first order of business was
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 89(JUD), "An Act clarifying that a
legislator or legislative employee is allowed to accept certain
compassionate gifts; allowing legislators and legislative
employees who are representing persons in an administrative
hearing to contact hearing officers and attempt to influence the
outcome of the hearing if they are professionals licensed in the
state, and allowing legislators and legislative employees who
are not professionals licensed in the state to contact hearing
officers for the purpose of influencing the outcome of the
hearing in certain instances; requiring the Select Committee on
Legislative Ethics to maintain a public record of certain ethics
disclosures made by legislators and legislative employees;
prohibiting a public member of the Select Committee on
Legislative Ethics from disclosing confidential information
without authorization; clarifying the ethics disclosure
requirements for tickets to or gifts in connection with charity
events; amending disclosure deadlines under the Legislative
Ethics Act; relating to requests to refrain from disclosure
under the Legislative Ethics Act; relating to the applicability
of certain provisions of the Legislative Ethics Act to certain
legislative employees, volunteers, and interns; establishing a
seat for an alternate public member on the Select Committee on
Legislative Ethics; clarifying the requirements related to
participation by alternate public members and alternate
legislative members in the proceedings of the committee;
amending the definition of 'legislative employee' in the
Legislative Ethics Act; and repealing a procedure for
appointment of alternate legislative members."
8:08:17 AM
RYNNIEVA MOSS, Staff, Senator John Coghill, Alaska State
Legislature, presented SB 89 on behalf of Senator Coghill,
sponsor.
8:10:03 AM
MS. MOSS directed attention to the sectional analysis, which
read as follows [original punctuation provided]:
Sec. 1. Replaces "lawful gratuity" with "gift" to make
section of law consistent with the usage of "gift".
Sec. 2. Bright line for legislators or staff being
actively involved in constituent problems with the
State. Once the issue is assigned to an administrative
hearing the involvement of the legislative office
ceases. Exceptions are included for lawyers and
provision for inadvertent exparte contact.
Sec. 3. Eliminates requirement of committee to compile
lists of financial disclosure statements. They must
only maintain public records and forward them to chief
clerk and senate secretary.
Sec. 4. Adds public members to statute prohibiting
disclosure of confidential information.
Sec. 5. Clarifies that a ticket to a charity event
from a lobbyist, or gifts received because of the
ticket from a lobbyist cannot exceed $250.
Sec. 6. Further describes "a contribution to a charity
event" by clarifying it could be a ticket to a charity
event or a gift in connection with a charity event.
Sec. 7. Extend the reporting period for gifts of
travel for the purpose of obtaining information on
legislative matters and disclosure of gifts from
charitable events from 30 days to 60 days.
Sec. 8. Allows for exceptions from disclosure under
the legislative ethics law if it would be in violation
of the state or federal constitution or state or
federal law. The State Affairs Committee added
language that includes exceptions for disclosures for
a rule, adopted formally by a trade or profession,
that state or federal law requires the person to
follow. A written request with justification must be
submitted to the committee.
Sec. 9. Requires anyone who is a volunteer or
educational trainee for more than 30 days to take the
ethics training. The 30 day guideline was added in
State Affairs.
Sec. 10. Adds cite for new section on Alternate
Members to statute describing the committee, its
structure and its duties.
Sec. 11. Adds cite for new section on Alternate
Members to statute describing the committee, its
structure and its duties.
Sec. 12. This is a new section describing the process
for appointing alternates. The section adds a new
provision that provides for the Chief Justice to
appoint an alternate public member.
Sec. 13. Adds legislative volunteers and educational
trainees who are in that capacity for more than 30
days to the statute requiring the Legislative ethics
course. The 30 day guideline was added in State
Affairs.
Sec. 14. Redefines legislative employee.
Sec. 15. Repeals old statute describing the process
for appointing alternates.
8:16:08 AM
MS. MOSS, in response to Representative P. Wilson, offered
clarification regarding Section 8.
8:17:17 AM
JOYCE ANDERSON, Administrator, Select Committee on Legislative
Ethics, referred to a possible amendment to AS 24.60.080(h)(2),
and expressed her hope that the proposed legislation would pass
on the House floor.
8:18:52 AM
VICE CHAIR KELLER closed public testimony.
8:19:05 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON moved to adopt Amendment 1, labeled 27-
LS0452\R.2, Wayne, 3/2/12, which read as follows [original
punctuation provided]:
Page 5, following line 26:
Insert a new bill section read:
"* Sec. 3. AS 24.60.030 is amended by adding a new
subsection to read:
(j) In this section, "administrative hearing"
means a quasi-judicial hearing before an agency;
"administrative hearing" does not include an informal
conference or review held by an agency before a final
decision is issued or a rate-making proceeding or
other nonadjudicative public hearing."
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.
VICE CHAIR KELLER objected for the purpose of discussion.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON stated that the purpose of Amendment 1 is
to provide the definition of administrative hearing to [AS
24.60.030].
VICE CHAIR KELLER removed his objection. There being no further
objection, Amendment 1 was adopted.
8:20:16 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON moved to adopt Amendment 2, labeled 27-
LS0452\R.3, Wayne, 3/2/12, which read as follows [original
punctuation provided]:
Page 10, line 24, through page 11, line 1:
Delete all material and insert:
"* Sec. 9. AS 24.60.112 is repealed and reenacted
to read:
Sec. 24.60.112. Applicability to legislative
interns. A legislative intern shall be considered to
be a legislative employee for purposes of compliance
with AS 24.60.030 - 24.60.039, 24.60.060, 24.60.080,
24.60.085, 24.60.155, 24.60.158 - 24.60.170,
24.60.176, and 24.60.178. If a person believes that a
legislative intern has violated the provisions of one
of those sections, the person may file a complaint
under AS 24.60.170. The provisions of AS 24.60.170
apply to the proceeding."
Page 13, lines 5 - 15:
Delete all material.
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.
VICE CHAIR KELLER objected for the purpose of discussion.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said Amendment 2 removes volunteers and
uses the term "legislative intern", and makes the above listed
statutes pertain to the legislative interns. He said the intent
is to clarify that ethics courses must be taken by legislators,
legislative employees, and legislative interns.
8:22:41 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN observed that the proposed Amendment 2
would also delete [Section 13], on page 13, lines 5-15, which
addresses the legislative ethics course, and he asked for an
explanation.
8:23:09 AM
MS. MOSS explained that [Section 13] proposed changes to [AS
24.60.155]; therefore, deleting the language would keep that
statute as it currently is.
8:23:41 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said that under Amendment 2, a legislative
intern would be considered to be a legislative employee and,
thus, would be required to take the ethics course.
8:24:17 AM
MS. ANDERSON, in response to Vice Chair Keller, said on-line
training is available for legislative employees who begin their
employment mid-session, and there is a checks and balances
system to ensure that is completed. In response to a follow-up
question, she said there have been no cases in which someone has
not completed the required ethics course.
VICE CHAIR KELLER said, "If I take on an intern, it seems to me
like ... it's my responsibility to ensure this happening."
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON responded that he thinks "we" ensure
accountability by seeing that the correct hiring process takes
place.
8:26:25 AM
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON said she likes [Amendment 2] the way it
is worded, because legislators are so busy that it is good to
have someone else following up to ensure rules are being
followed.
8:27:00 AM
VICE CHAIR KELLER removed his objection. There being no further
objection, Amendment 2 was adopted.
8:27:23 AM
MS. ANDERSON directed attention to AS 24.60.080(h), which read
as follows:
(h) A legislator, a legislative committee other
than the Select Committee on Legislative Ethics, or a
legislative agency may accept a gift of (1) volunteer
services for legislative purposes so long as the
person making the gift of services is not receiving
compensation from another source for the services, or
(2) the services of a trainee who is participating in
an educational program approved by the committee if
the services are used for legislative purposes. The
committee shall approve training under a program of
the University of Alaska and training under 29 U.S.C.
2801 - 2945 (Workforce Investment Act of 1998).
MS. ANDERSON asked the committee to consider changing the word
"trainee", in paragraph (2), to "legislative employee". In
response to Vice Chair Keller, she confirmed that this amendment
would be conceptual and result in language added to SB 89.
8:29:04 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON moved to adopt Conceptual Amendment 3, as
follows:
In AS 24.60.080(h), paragraph (2):
delete "trainee"
insert "legislative employee"
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN asked if the language would be added as
Section 16.
VICE CHAIR KELLER said Amendment 3 is conceptual.
8:29:51 AM
MS. MOSS offered her understanding that the language would be
put in a new Section 8. She said, "It goes numerically."
8:30:07 AM
VICE CHAIR KELLER objected to Conceptual Amendment 3, and then
he withdrew his objection. There being no further objection,
Conceptual Amendment 3 was adopted.
8:30:48 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said he thinks the proposed bill, as
amended, offers clarification.
8:31:22 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON moved to report CSSB 89(JUD), as amended,
out of committee with individual recommendations and the
accompanying fiscal notes. There being no objection, HCS CSSB
89(STA) was reported out of the House State Affairs Standing
Committee.
8:32:02 AM
The committee took an at-ease from 8:32 a.m. to 8:34 a.m.
8:34:28 AM
VICE CHAIR KELLER called the House State Affairs Standing
Committee back to order.
HJR 38-US CONST AM: FEDERAL DEBT LIMIT
8:34:30 AM
VICE CHAIR KELLER announced that the final order of business was
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 38, Requesting the United States
Congress to call a Constitutional Convention to propose an
amendment to the Constitution of the United States requiring
approval of a majority of state legislatures to increase the
federal debt limit.
VICE CHAIR KELLER said Article 5 of the U.S. Constitution states
that the Constitution can be amended upon agreement of two-
thirds of the states. He said HJR 38 is an attempt to get that
agreement in terms of a debt limit increase.
8:35:33 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked if a constitutional convention would
open up all parts of the U.S. Constitution for possible
amendment.
VICE CHAIR KELLER offered his understanding that it would be
highly unlikely for that to happen, because the convention is
called for by two-thirds of the states for a particular purpose,
and the entire two-thirds would have to decide to change that
purpose. He said he would gather the information that convinced
him that there would be no run-away convention and share it with
committee members.
8:38:03 AM
VICE CHAIR KELLER, in response to Representative P. Wilson,
offered his understanding that there has never been a
Constitutional Convention called to amend the U.S. Constitution
since its inception. He proffered that any signs of a movement
by two-thirds of the states provide motivation for U.S.
Congress. In response to a follow-up question, he said a
similar resolution was proposed in 1982, but it was for a
balanced budget, which he said is different from a debt limit.
8:40:41 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN talked about the debate in Washington,
D.C., regarding whether to raise the debt limit, and he said one
of the arguments in favor of it had to do with the country's
credit rating. He said he agrees that "we" need to get debt
under control, but does not know that the best way to do that is
through an amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which could spin
out of control.
8:43:01 AM
VICE CHAIR KELLER challenged Representative Petersen to come up
with a hypothetical situation that would lead to a runaway
convention. He emphasized the indebtedness of the country and
the importance of engaging the states in this discussion.
8:44:31 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON offered his understanding that if there
was a constitutional convention, then there are two ways it
could be addressed: a majority of the states or two-thirds of
the states would have to ratify.
VICE CHAIR KELLER indicated that that is not correct. He
deferred to Jim Pound.
8:45:24 AM
JIM POUND, Staff, Representative Wes Keller, Alaska State
Legislature, on behalf of Representative Keller, sponsor,
responded to Representative Seaton's comment. He offered his
understanding that 38 states initially would have to pass this
resolution or a resolution with similar language and submit it
to U.S. Congress, who would then call a constitutional
convention, which would be limited to the language in the
resolution.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked whether the convention could
consider the topic in general or would have to adhere to the
specific language in the resolutions from the states.
MR. POUND said the convention would be limited to the language
submitted.
8:46:35 AM
VICE CHAIR KELLER directed attention to language on page 3, line
3, which states that a federal debt limit increase "requires
approval from a majority of the legislatures of the separate
states".
8:46:54 AM
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON asked for clarification as to the
meaning of "three fourths of the several states" within a
segment of Article 5 of the U.S. Constitution, which read as
follows:
shall call a convention for proposing amendments,
which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents
and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when
ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the
several states
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON asked if the number 37 equals three-
fourths [of the states].
MR. POUND offered his understanding that it is 38. In response
to follow-up questions, he said at least four state legislatures
are working on similar resolutions, and a couple passed similar
resolutions last year.
8:48:28 AM
MR. POUND, in response to Representative Petersen, said the
ultimate goal of HJR 38 is to ensure that U.S. Congress would
have to get authority from the state legislatures to increase
the debt ceiling.
8:49:52 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN pointed out that since not all state
legislatures meet at the same time of year, it may be possible
that some legislatures would have to be called back into session
to vote on raising the debt limit.
8:50:33 AM
MR. POUND indicated that the intent is that state legislatures
would take care of the issue during their normal session times.
VICE CHAIR KELLER said the purpose of the resolution is to make
it more difficult for [U.S. Congress] to raise the national debt
without representing the wishes of the people of the nation in
that regard. He indicated that HJR 38 would put a process in
place that is not as easy as the current one.
8:51:14 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said he disagrees that the process to
raise the national debt over the last year was an easy one.
VICE CHAIR KELLER interjected that he meant easy by comparison.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON opined that the objective of HJR 38 is to
say that [the Alaska State Legislature] does not trust those
elected to Congress to be competent to "deal with the fiscal
realities of the time." He said the debt limit has been raised
two to three times in the last year, and he expressed concern
that HJR 38 would put forward a situation requiring automatic
default of the U.S. He stated that he does not see any
contingency plan in the resolution to address an emergency
situation. He said he agrees with the concept of constraining
expenditures, but he indicated that there are also changes to
the gross domestic product that effect revenues and, thus, the
national debt. He expressed appreciation of the dialogue taking
place, but said he foresees problems under HJR 38.
Representative Seaton said he would like [the committee] to
consider the cascading effect on Alaska and its bond rating if
there was a default by the federal government "because we failed
to increase the debt limit." He said he would like to hear
feedback from the Permanent Fund Division and the Department of
Revenue.
8:56:14 AM
VICE CHAIR KELLER asked Representative Seaton if he was defining
default as what would happen if the debt limit was not
increased.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said he believes the consequences of
states saying no would probably be default, because "we wouldn't
be paying on the bonds that we had issued."
VICE CHAIR KELLER said he disagrees. He said he also disagrees
with Representative Seaton's previous interpretation that HJR 38
implies that "we" have no trust in U.S. Congress. He stated
that while HJR 38 is "built on what Congress has done or has
failed to do" - the nation's debt is $16 trillion - its focus is
an attempt to give representation to the people of America.
8:58:23 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON responded that the people directly elect
their representation in Congress, so he would not want to say
"we" are the only representatives of the federal budget. He
continued as follows:
I understand that we're not specifying Congress in
here. Congress, of course, are ... the people we
elect to go deal with that problem, and so, if we're
needing to take that authority away from them, it
seems to be the only logical conclusion that we don't
think they're capable of making those considerations
the way we want to make them. But I'd also like to
say that ... as I see this, it would not be the people
that are going to be making the decision, but it's the
legislatures of the individual states. And so, it's
the states that are being represented and not the
people, because the direct lineup to the people is
electing the Congress then to deal with that.
9:00:09 AM
VICE CHAIR KELLER responded that that is his point exactly. He
said HJR 38 would engage the power of the states in a decision
that affects every citizen; it puts some weight on the
sovereignty of states.
9:01:03 AM
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON pointed out that [the language in the
second "WHEREAS" clause, beginning on page 2, line 13] calls for
a balanced budget.
VICE CHAIR KELLER acknowledged that a mistake was made, and an
amendment would be offered to delete that language from the
joint resolution.
9:01:59 AM
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON, regarding Vice Chair Keller's previous
statement that a runaway constitutional convention is unlikely,
offered her understanding that the very reason there has yet to
be a constitutional convention is that many people are reluctant
to risk the possibility of adversely affecting the best
Constitution in the world. She offered an example of what she
called "a feeding frenzy" of amendments made to oil and gas
legislation once it reached the House floor in the Alaska State
Legislature.
9:04:42 AM
VICE CHAIR KELLER responded that he thinks Representative P.
Wilson is envisioning that representatives from all the states
would be together where they could change "this," but said he
does not think that would be possible. He said, "If we pass
this, and two-thirds of the states pass this, it's a very narrow
channel that it goes down. And I just don't believe there's a
scenario where it could be changed without convincing all two-
thirds ..., and that would be a formidable task."
9:06:02 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON noted that a majority of the states have
already passed equal rights amendments, and he said he thinks
that issue could easily be put on the agenda if a constitutional
convention was held. The states that had not already ratified
an equal rights amendment would not be able to block the
majority of the states that already have.
VICE CHAIR KELLER said he will try to get a representative of
the Goldwater Institute, an entity that has been working on this
issue, to testify before the committee and talk about the
consistency of wording.
9:07:48 AM
MR. POUND directed attention to language on page 3, [lines 4-7],
which read as follows:
FURTHER RESOLVED that the amendments convention
requested by this resolution be limited to the subject
matter of proposing for ratification an amendment to
the Constitution of the United States providing that
an increase in the federal debt requires approval from
a majority of the legislatures of the separate states;
and be it
MR. POUND said, "This is a single-subject constitutional
convention."
9:08:36 AM
MR. POUND, in response to Representative P. Wilson, said this
resolution has come from the Goldwater Institute, and it will be
discussed by other legislatures. He said, "What we approve here
has to be approved in 37 other states with the exact same
language."
VICE CHAIR KELLER, in response to Representative P. Wilson,
offered an explanation as to why the aforementioned mistake was
in the joint resolution. He emphasized that the most important
part of the joint resolution contains the "BE IT RESOLVED"
language.
MR. POUND added to the explanation.
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON asked if each state would craft its own
"WHEREAS" clauses, but the language following "BE IT RESOLVED"
would be the same.
VICE CHAIR KELLER stated his preference is to have "the expert"
answer that question at the next hearing.
9:11:29 AM
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON directed attention to language on page
3, lines 12-13, which read as follows:
FURTHER RESOLVED that the Alaska State
Legislature urges the legislatures of the other 49
states to make the same application.
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON ventured the language should be changed
to accurately reflect that some states have already adopted
similar resolutions.
MR. POUND characterized the number as a moving target.
9:12:26 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN ventured that if U.S. Congress was
backed into a corner, it might have to raise taxes extremely
high in order to avoid going over the debt limit, which would
throw the country into further recession.
9:13:29 AM
MR. POUND suggested that the other option is that [U.S.
Congress] might cut the budget spending.
VICE CHAIR KELLER said he cannot imagine "raising taxes to make
us prosperous."
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN said he offered that example to show
that unintended consequences could happen.
9:14:05 AM
SHEILA FINKENBINDER, Juneau, Alaska, testifying on behalf of
herself, said she agrees with the premise of the proposed joint
resolution that the federal government should be asked to deal
with the budget; however, she said she disagrees with calling
for a constitutional convention. She quoted a representative of
the National Conference of State Legislatures as having said,
"The U.S. Constitution does not - and Congress has not -
established a process by which a constitutional convention [is
called] upon 'the application of the legislatures of two-thirds
of the federal states'." Ms. Finkenbinder said that as a
result, a number of legal issues arise, which center around
these points: The identicalness of the petitions; the scope and
limitations of a constitutional convention ...; the validity of
any recisions of petitions by state legislatures ...; the
contemporaneousness of the petitions ...; and the proper
enactment and submission of the petitions by state legislature.
MS. FINKENBINDER said that in her research, she found just as
many studies showing the risk in calling for a constitutional
convention as those supporting doing so. She directed attention
to language of the first "FURTHER RESOLVED", beginning on page
2, line 30, through page 3, line 3, and asked the committee to
consider changing the language to urge Congress "to create an
amendment to the constitution of the United States that provides
that an increase in the federal debt limit require approval from
a majority of the legislatures of the separate states". She
said that would still allow the states to have input and gives
the message to Congress to recognize that Alaska is asking it to
deal with the federal budget.
9:17:46 AM
VICE CHAIR KELLER asked Ms. Finkenbinder to keep an open mind as
she sees new information. He explained, "I started where you
are, but I have become convinced."
9:18:38 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON offered an analogy wherein municipalities
of the state would pass a resolution allowing the legislators of
the state to take money out of the Capital Budget Reserve (CBR)
to fund the state's budget.
9:20:25 AM
VICE CHAIR KELLER said that is a good analogy, but
municipalities don't have constitutions and don't claim to be
sovereign.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON admitted that it was not a perfect
analogy, but said it illustrates having someone not involved
with the budget make decisions regarding it.
[HJR 38 was held over.]
9:22:05 AM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
State Affairs Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 9:22
a.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| 01 HJR038A.PDF |
HSTA 3/6/2012 8:00:00 AM |
HJR 38 |
| 02 HJR 38 Sponsor.pdf |
HSTA 3/6/2012 8:00:00 AM |
HJR 38 |
| 03 HJR 38 Consti Art V.pdf |
HSTA 3/6/2012 8:00:00 AM |
HJR 38 |
| 04 HJR 38 FED DEBT Hist.pdf |
HSTA 3/6/2012 8:00:00 AM |
HJR 38 |
| 05 HJR 38 Pres. budget Costs.pdf |
HSTA 3/6/2012 8:00:00 AM |
HJR 38 |
| 06 HJR 38 1982 Resolution.pdf |
HSTA 3/6/2012 8:00:00 AM |
HJR 38 |
| 07 HJR 38 1997 resolution.pdf |
HSTA 3/6/2012 8:00:00 AM |
HJR 38 |
| 08 HJR 38 LEG HSTA Zero Fiscal Note 3-1-12.pdf |
HSTA 3/6/2012 8:00:00 AM |
HJR 38 |