Legislature(2001 - 2002)
04/16/2002 08:03 AM House STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
April 16, 2002
8:03 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative John Coghill, Chair
Representative Jeannette James
Representative Hugh Fate
Representative Gary Stevens
Representative Peggy Wilson
Representative Harry Crawford
Representative Joe Hayes
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS
Alaska Air National Guard (ANG) Brigadier General
Colonel Gene Ramsay - Kulis ANG Base
- CONFIRMATION ADVANCED
Space and Missile Defense Brigadier General
Colonel James Welch - Anchorage
- CONFIRMATION ADVANCED
HOUSE BILL NO. 458
"An Act relating to periods of probation for state employees;
and providing for an effective date."
- MOVED HB 458 OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 370
"An Act relating to the issuance of state-guaranteed revenue
bonds by the Alaska Housing Finance Corporation to finance
mortgages for qualifying veterans; and providing for an
effective date."
- MOVED HB 370 OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 37
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of
Alaska relating to officers and employees of the executive
branch.
- MOVED SJR 37 OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 364
"An Act relating to capital projects for deferred maintenance,
replacement, modification, and expansion of state facilities;
relating to leases to secure financing for those projects;
relating to the issuance of certificates of participation to
finance those projects for certain capital facilities owned by
the state; giving notice of and approving the entry into, and
the issuance of certificates of participation in, lease-
financing agreements for those projects; and providing for an
effective date."
- SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 38
Proposing amendments to the Constitution of the State of Alaska
relating to information regarding proposed expenditures.
- SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 458
SHORT TITLE:STATE EMPLOYEE PROBATIONARY PERIOD
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)HUDSON
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/19/02 2311 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
02/19/02 2311 (H) STA
04/11/02 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
04/11/02 (H) Heard & Held
04/11/02 (H) MINUTE(STA)
04/16/02 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
BILL: HB 370
SHORT TITLE:GUARANTEED REVENUE BONDS FOR VETERANS
SPONSOR(S): RLS BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/01/02 2117 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
02/01/02 2117 (H) MLV, STA, FIN
02/01/02 2117 (H) FN1: ZERO(REV)
02/01/02 2117 (H) FN2: (GOV)
02/01/02 2117 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
02/19/02 (H) MLV AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 124
02/19/02 (H) Moved Out of Committee
02/19/02 (H) MINUTE(MLV)
02/20/02 2337 (H) MLV RPT 4DP
02/20/02 2337 (H) DP: GREEN, MURKOWSKI, HAYES,
CHENAULT
02/20/02 2337 (H) FN1: ZERO(REV)
02/20/02 2337 (H) FN2: (GOV)
04/16/02 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
BILL: SJR 37
SHORT TITLE:CONST AM: HIRING FREEZE
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) KELLY
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/19/02 2226 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
02/19/02 2226 (S) STA, JUD, FIN
02/26/02 (S) STA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 211
02/26/02 (S) Moved SJR 37 Out of Committee
MINUTE(STA)
02/27/02 2318 (S) STA RPT 3DP 1NR
02/27/02 2318 (S) DP: THERRIAULT, PHILLIPS,
HALFORD;
02/27/02 2318 (S) NR: STEVENS
02/27/02 2318 (S) FN1: (GOV)
03/18/02 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211
03/18/02 (S) Moved Out of Committee
03/18/02 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
03/20/02 2472 (S) JUD RPT 3DP 1DNP
03/20/02 2472 (S) DP: TAYLOR, COWDERY,
THERRIAULT;
03/20/02 2472 (S) DNP: ELLIS
03/20/02 2472 (S) FN1: (GOV)
03/22/02 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE
532
03/22/02 (S) Moved Out of Committee
03/22/02 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
03/22/02 2496 (S) FIN RPT 6DP 3NR
03/22/02 2496 (S) DP: DONLEY, KELLY, GREEN,
WILKEN, WARD,
03/22/02 2496 (S) LEMAN; NR: AUSTERMAN,
HOFFMAN, OLSON
03/22/02 2496 (S) FN1: (GOV)
03/26/02 (S) RLS AT 11:00 AM FAHRENKAMP
203
03/26/02 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
03/28/02 2559 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING FLD
Y14 N3 E3
03/28/02 2556 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR 1OR 3/28/02
03/28/02 2558 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME
03/28/02 2559 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING 4/2
CALENDAR
04/02/02 2591 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME SJR 37
04/02/02 2592 (S) HELD IN THIRD READING TO 4/8
CALENDAR
04/08/02 2663 (S) BEFORE THE SENATE IN THIRD
READING
04/08/02 2663 (S) PASSED Y14 N5 E1
04/08/02 2663 (S) ELTON NOTICE OF
RECONSIDERATION
04/09/02 2691 (S) RECONSIDERATION NOT TAKEN UP
04/09/02 2692 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
04/09/02 2692 (S) VERSION: SJR 37
04/10/02 2861 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
04/10/02 2861 (H) STA, JUD, FIN
04/16/02 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
WITNESS REGISTER
GENE RAMSAY, Colonel, Appointee
as Brigadier General
Alaska Air National Guard
(No address provided)
Kulis Air National Guard Base
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: As appointee to the position of Brigadier
General in the Alaska Air National Guard, provided background
and answered questions.
JAMES WELCH, Colonel, Appointee
as Brigadier General
Space and Missile Defense
(No address provided)
POSITION STATEMENT: As appointee to the position of Brigadier
General for Space and Missile Defense, provided background and
answered questions.
MELANIE LESH, Staff
to Representative Bill Hudson
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 502
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on HB 458 on behalf of
the sponsor.
JOHN BITNEY, Legislative Liaison
Alaska Housing Finance Corporation
Department of Revenue
PO Box 101020
Anchorage, Alaska 99510-1020
POSITION STATEMENT: Explained HB 370 and answered questions.
SENATOR PETE KELLY
Capitol Building, Room 518
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SJR 37 as sponsor.
JACK KREINHEDER, Chief Analyst
Office of the Director
Office of Management & Budget
Office of the Governor
PO Box 110020
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0001
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified and answered questions on SJR 37.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 02-41, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIR JOHN COGHILL called the House State Affairs Standing
Committee meeting to order at 8:03 a.m. Representatives
Coghill, James, Fate, Stevens, Wilson, and Crawford were present
at the call to order. Representative Hayes arrived as the
meeting was in progress.
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS
Alaska Air National Guard (ANG) Brigadier General
CHAIR COGHILL announced the first order of business would be the
confirmation hearing for the appointee as the Alaska Air
National Guard Brigadier General. He invited Colonel Ramsay to
provide opening remarks and answer members' questions.
Number 0160
GENE RAMSAY, Colonel, Appointee as Brigadier General, Alaska Air
National Guard, testified via teleconference. He explained that
he will be next commander of the 176th Wing at Kulis Air
National Guard Base. It is the larger of the two wings in the
Alaska Air National Guard. The nation has turned to the guard
and reserve to fill a void. The rescue folks just spent four
months in Kuwait, and at the same time, a service is provided in
Alaska with the airlift in search and rescue. He noted that the
missions of the airlift squadron and the search and rescue are
well tailored to the needs of the state.
COLONEL RAMSAY said his biggest task will be to figure out how
much is enough. Many guard members have been called to active
duty due to the national emergency, and employers are starting
to feel the pinch.
CHAIR COGHILL asked Colonel Ramsay to give an overview of the
different squadrons in that wing.
Number 0389
COLONEL RAMSAY explained that the core of business of the wing
is the "airlift" and "rescue." The 144th [Tactical] Airlift
Squadron has eight new C-130s and is the traditional guard
squadron. It is manned with 80 percent of traditional guard
members and 20 percent full-time guard members. The 210th [Air]
Rescue [Squadron], the other half of the core of business, is
more of an active duty squadron. It has about 80 percent full-
time guard members and about 20 percent part-time guard members.
It has an alert mission and is on alert 24 hours per day, 7 days
per week, and that can only be done with full-time people.
There are several large aircraft maintenance squadrons. There
is a medical squadron that runs a clinic; a civil engineering
squadron that fixes buildings on the base, deploys, does the
rapid runway repair, and builds tent cities; a personnel unit
that takes care of records and orders; and a communications
squadron that takes care of all the computers, radios, and
phones. He commented that he'd probably left something out, but
basically it is a miniature air force base. There are about
1,200 people on a base of 128 acres. The 176th Wing does just
about everything an air force base would do, except it doesn't
have any nuclear weapons.
Number 0545
COLONEL RAMSAY reported that the rescue squadron has four HC-
130s and six HH-60 rescue helicopters. He calculated the
replacement value would be close to half a billion dollars if
everything were bought new today. He noted that the rescue
squadron also has an enviable safety record. The last accident
was in 1965, and over 150,000 hours have been flown in 35 years
without a mishap.
CHAIR COGHILL asked the committee if there was any objection to
forwarding this confirmation to the [joint session of the House
and Senate]. There being no objection, the confirmation for
Colonel Ramsay was advanced.
Space and Missile Defense Brigadier General
CHAIR COGHILL announced the next order of business would be the
confirmation hearing for the appointee as the Space and Missile
Defense Brigadier General. He invited Colonel Welch to provide
opening remarks and answer members' questions.
Number 0702
JAMES WELCH, Colonel, Appointee as Brigadier General, Space and
Missile Defense, testified via teleconference. He told the
committee that he spent 10.5 years in Alaska from 1988 to 1998
working for BP [British Petroleum]. At that time he was a
colonel in the Army National Guard. He later took a position in
Colombia and Bolivia with BP. He moved back to Alaska when he
was appointed to this position. He is a manager for BP and runs
the optimization and well entries part of the field at Milne
Point Unit.
COLONEL WELCH noted that this is a new position with space and
missile defense, so he won't be replacing anyone. His goal is
to get the military ready in the event of a deployment in three
or four years. There will be some work with the national guard
bureau, the army space command, and the national missile defense
to make sure there are the right skills in the military sector
in order to operate. In the nearer term he would like to get a
piece of the "test bed business" for the army national guard.
That will involve working with the same group of people and with
the state and federal legislators and other stakeholders such as
Boeing, and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. He said he sees
his role as a high-level interface as a traditional guardsman.
He'll travel down to NORAD [North American Aerospace Defense
Command] to try to carve out a piece for the Alaska guard in
this test pad and get ready for the long-term deployment in the
event that the President orders that.
COLONEL WELCH noted that this is an important project for the
state of Alaska. This threat is not going to go away, the
threat will mature in different theaters in the world, and
Alaska is going to have to be ready and is uniquely
geographically positioned to do that. Two good resources are in
Alaska to help the space and missile defense community: the
computer center at the University of Alaska and the Kodiak
Launch Complex.
CHAIR COGHILL asked Colonel Welch if he would be working in the
policy area or facilities development.
COLONEL WELCH answered he probably would be doing more in the
policy areas. He also mention that the U.S. Army Corps of
Engineers, under the space and missile command, is in the
process of building a test bed. He said he sees his role as
fairly representing Alaskan workers and Alaskan contractors in
these opportunities. He offered to update the legislature on
the dynamic area of space and missile defense anytime.
Number 1272
CHAIR COGHILL asked the committee if there was any objection to
forwarding this confirmation to the [joint session of the House
and Senate]. There being no objection, the confirmation for
Colonel Welch was advanced.
HB 458 - STATE EMPLOYEE PROBATIONARY PERIOD
Number 1340
CHAIR COGHILL announced that the next order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 458, "An Act relating to periods of probation for
state employees; and providing for an effective date."
MELANIE LESH, Staff to Representative Bill Hudson, Alaska State
Legislature, referred to a letter from the Department of
Administration. She said that she thought the letter answered
questions Representative James had at the last hearing on
HB 458.
Number 1390
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES agreed that her questions had been
answered.
Number 1407
REPRESENTATIVE FATE moved to report HB 458 out of committee with
individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes.
There being no objection, HB 458 was reported out of the House
State Affairs Standing Committee.
HB 370 - GUARANTEED REVENUE BONDS FOR VETERANS
CHAIR COGHILL announced that the next order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 370, "An Act relating to the issuance of state-
guaranteed revenue bonds by the Alaska Housing Finance
Corporation to finance mortgages for qualifying veterans; and
providing for an effective date."
Number 1470
JOHN BITNEY, Legislative Liaison, Alaska Housing Finance
Corporation (AHFC), Department of Revenue, explained that HB 370
is an authorization to ask voters this fall to approve $500
million in state-guaranteed mortgage revenue bonds that AHFC
would issue out over time to provide the funds necessary to
continue the veterans mortgage revenue. The state got involved
in this program around 1980 when Congress opened up a provision
in the U.S. tax code for states to provide a tax-free mortgage
program to qualified veterans. Shortly thereafter, Congress
closed the window for states to get in on the program. Alaska
was one of five states that had gone ahead and gotten started.
Essentially, Alaska has been grandfathered in.
Number 1556
MR. BITNEY told the members that in order for these bonds to be
tax-exempt under the U.S. Code, the state issuing the bonds has
to unconditionally guarantee the bonds, and in Alaska that
requires voter approval. Unlike any other mortgage program AHFC
has, this one has to have voter approval. These bonds are
structured so that the mortgages that they're purchasing are the
assets that back them. This is no way uses up any of the
state's general obligation bond capacity. That is separate.
Number 1624
MR. BITNEY reported that this is the fifth time this question
has been put out on the ballot, and the last time was in 1986.
He noted that these questions have been strongly approved by the
voters at 60 percent or better. Information would be gotten out
to the voters if this were put out for a vote, he said. The
program is offered and available to qualified veterans who were
in active-duty service prior to January 1, 1977, and have not
been discharged more than 30 years prior to the date of the loan
application, so there is a diminishing pool of qualified
veterans. Right now there are about 400 loans per year, $70
million in volume. He said that this would probably be the last
time this is done, unless Congress extended the benefit.
Number 1775
MR. BITNEY explained that the AHFC would not just go out and
issue $500 million in one sale; it would be broken up into
pieces over time as the demand for loans comes in each year.
Two weeks ago the AHFC finished a sale on a $50 million
financing for loans. There's about $47 million in capacity left
from the last voter authorization in 1986. He told the members
that the AHFC will be out of authorization from that last vote
easily by the end of this year.
Number 1828
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked what the average amount of loan is.
MR. BITNEY answered that in FY [fiscal year] 01, there were 411
loans; the average sale price was $188,000; the average loan
amount on that was $169,000. The average loan-to-value ratio
was about 91 percent, and a 5 percent down is required. The
AHFC will go to 100 percent loan-to-value if there is "a VA"
[Veterans Administration] coupled with the loan. The average
age of the borrower was 50 years old, with a household size of
two, and an average payment of $1,000 per month.
Number 1897
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD asked if $500 million was the size of
the obligation done in the past.
MR. BITNEY answered in 1986 it was $600 million. The total is
almost $2.2 billion.
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked for more details on the rules of the
loans.
MR. BITNEY answered that there are no income restrictions and no
acquisition restrictions on this tax-exempt program that are in
other tax-exempt programs. Someone can only own one home under
the program. It is for an owner-occupied, single-family
residence or condominium up to a four-plex, or a type-1 mobile
home.
Number 2125
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES moved to report HB 370 out of committee
with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal
notes. There being no objection, HB 370 was reported out of the
House State Affairs Standing Committee.
The committee took an at-ease from 8:34 a.m. to 8:35 a.m.
SJR 37 - CONST AM: HIRING FREEZE
[Contains discussion of SCR 29]
CHAIR COGHILL announced that the next order of business would be
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 37, Proposing an amendment to the
Constitution of the State of Alaska relating to officers and
employees of the executive branch.
Number 2166
SENATOR PETE KELLY, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor, presented
SJR 37. He explained that the Alaska constitution specifies
duties of the executive branch and the legislature, but on some
[duties] it is fairly vague. In the past there has always been
a challenge between the two branches of government. He referred
to the other resolution asking the governor to institute a
hiring freeze [SCR 29]. He recognized that there are some
fiscal problems with the state, and that there might be some
disagreement in this building as to how serious or how eminent
they are. This resolution is asking the governor to take some
active management steps. Any governor can say no to just about
anything the legislature asks when it comes to the day-to-day
management of the executive branch. He indicated that that is
why there needs to be a hiring-freeze resolution in the
constitution to give the legislature the authority to say:
Look, we've got some problems. If you won't do it
[on] your own, we, the people's branch, want to enact
this form of fairly simple management, which is if
you've got hundreds of millions of dollars' deficit,
one of the first things you probably ought to do is
look at reducing or freezing hiring, which this
governor has not done.
SENATOR KELLY said that the authority to do that is in SJR 37.
Number 2274
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said she struggles on this issue and
wondered why this resolution would be necessary, since the
legislature already has the power of the purse.
SENATOR KELLY replied that the hiring freeze is a more specific
management tool than just adding or subtracting from the budget.
The legislature could reduce the budget, but it wouldn't stop
the governor from hiring more people and reducing services,
which has happened.
Number 2375
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said this seems to be a management
decision, and it seems to her that the constitution delineates
the management to be the administration. She asked for the
rationale for this.
SENATOR KELLY answered that the constitution either allows for
something or it doesn't, and that's why the constitution has to
be changed to cross those separation-of-power lines. He said he
doesn't believe in crossing the lines of separation of power
unless it is allowed for in the constitution.
SENATOR KELLY explained that if some executive goes on a hiring
binge when budgets are cut or oil revenues drop, those people
hired are susceptible to layoffs. He said he likes the idea of
a hiring freeze because it protects people from layoffs. If,
during a financial drought, things are managed through available
options, the positions that currently exist can be protected.
He said that one of the reasons he wants to do this is to
protect the people who are employed already.
Number 2594
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES asked who would be responsible for the
hiring freeze during the interim when the legislators were
working at their private-sector jobs. He is concerned that the
staff, who are not elected officials, will ultimately have more
power, without the technical expertise, to do the day-to-day
functions of deciding when a hiring freeze should be done.
SENATOR KELLY replied that that would be a future question
should the legislature ever decide to enact a hiring freeze.
There won't be specific answers to those questions in the
constitutional authority to enact a hiring freeze. He explained
that years from now, there would be a resolution that would
itemize those concerns, saying this is how it will be done.
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES asked if any other states or companies are
set up in the country whereby the board of directors has the
authority over the CEO [chief executive officer] to direct
management decisions.
SENATOR KELLY replied that any company can have that authority
over the CEO. One difference between the private sector and the
government is that the legislature can't fire the governor.
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES asked Senator Kelly if he thought this
resolution was the first step in the fiscal problems or if a
long-range fiscal plan should be looked at first. He said he is
not sure this tool addresses the fundamental problem.
Number 2793
SENATOR KELLY agreed that this is not going to cure the budget
problems, but it is a piece of the puzzle, just like a
constitutional spending limit is a piece of the puzzle; it's not
going to cure the problem. There are a lot of things that can
address the long-term financial problems. Any one of them is
not the answer.
Number 2833
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES referred to a bill passed in the House
whereby the governor's staff would prioritize the most important
things in the budget and then the legislature would prioritize
it. He commented that it seemed as though there are safeguards
in statute that this constitutional amendment is trying to
address. He wondered why there needs to be a constitutional
amendment when some of these issues can be done with statutory
authority.
SENATOR KELLY said that the problem with the bill that the House
passed is why this constitutional amendment needs to be passed.
The legislature does not have the authority to require the
executive branch to enact a hiring freeze without a
constitutional amendment; it doesn't have the authority to ask
the executive branch to prioritize the budget without
constitutional authority. Prioritization of the budget is not a
hiring freeze. That's why it's needed, he explained.
Number 2918
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked what would happen during a hiring
freeze if an upper management position was vacant and no one
under that position was qualified to step into that position.
SENATOR KELLY said that would be another thing that would be
handled in the future, should the legislature decide to enact a
hiring freeze; some of those considerations could be made in the
resolution at the time. He noted that those are the kind of
detailed decisions that the executive would be expected to make.
TAPE 02-41, SIDE B
Number 2968
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS commented that SJR 37 seemed like a tool
that may be needed at some point. He said that Alaska has an
unusual constitution because its governor has more power
compared with other states' governors. He wondered if there are
other states where the legislature can initiate a hiring freeze.
He said he doesn't think this really takes power away from the
governor because he can still have a hiring freeze; it just
gives more oversight to the legislature.
Number 2888
SENATOR KELLY said he hadn't seen anything like this in other
states. They haven't seen the need to do this yet. He
applauded the people who have been trying to work on a long-
range fiscal plan, but said he thinks that the rules were
changed since the statehood compact was written. He explained
that Alaska was an unusual circumstance. Alaska was a resource
state; it had a higher level of revenue that was supposed to
come to it because Alaska would never have a population base to
tax itself for the services. He commented that then the
environmentalists happened. Right now Alaska should have been
receiving the revenues from ANWR [Arctic National Wildlife
Refuge] from ten years ago. A fundamental piece of the economic
puzzle did not get put in place ten years ago as it was supposed
to; now Alaska is suffering the consequences. He said he
thought that the revenue gap was made worse by the governor who,
in the face of that revenue gap, continued to add hundreds of
millions of dollars almost every year to almost every budget,
increased employees, and acted as if the problem didn't exist at
all.
SENATOR KELLY reiterated that this resolution won't affect the
current governor, but wondered what would happen if in the
future the governor will not manage the problem. He said he
believes that the legislature has to have the authority to take
action if a governor won't. The constitution gave the governor
a lot of power and a lot of protection. In the founding
documents, the fear wasn't that the people would be the problem;
they [the crafters of the documents] were more afraid of a very
powerful executive, so they took action to building fences
around the executive, not around the people's branch of
government. It probably isn't bad to put a bit of a fence
around the executive branch in Alaska, particularly given the
uniqueness of its financial situation, he commented.
Number 2697
REPRESENTATIVE FATE expressed concern about this resolution's
being a problem with the federal constitution and asked Senator
Kelly if "Legal" [Legal and Research Services Division] had
examined that issue.
SENATOR KELLY answered that he doesn't have it from Legal that
it is unconstitutional. He agreed that it is possible, but it
is healthy for states to be probing those areas of the federal
constitution as they relate to the states to see what power
states have. The federal constitution is one of the bedrocks of
states rights. It is possible that this won't fit under the
federal constitution, but it's worth trying, he commented.
Number 2599
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES noted that she struggles with this issue.
She said in her ten years in the legislature she has watched the
legislature in action on management issues; she finds a true
lack of understanding of the true management of issues. She
said she would hate to put this in the constitution so that it
would allow a future legislature to actually shut things down,
and she said she thinks that could happen. She expressed
concern about the economic activities over the last few years
and said she sees a definite chilling of any opportunities for
Alaska to do anything. She commented that she isn't sure that
this is the methodology to get where she believes Alaska needs
to go. It is a serious issue. She noted that she is not
convinced that the total dollars being spent are needed, but she
can't put her fingers on where the changes need to be made
because she's not in that position. She fears some retribution
on issues, she said.
Number 2447
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said he wasn't convinced that this is
the tool needed. It seems to him that the people in the
constitutional convention had a good idea about the separation
of powers. He said he believes that the state government has
worked well so far. An across-the-board hiring freeze has a
tendency to affect one department over another, he noted. The
legislature has the power to not fund a department now, but when
there is a hiring freeze, for example, the DFYS [Division of
Family & Youth Services], which has a high rate of turnover,
would lose all its employees over about three years. He said he
thinks it is a "meat ax" approach. If departments aren't doing
their jobs, then the legislature shouldn't fund them.
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES agreed that the Republican majority in the
legislature has done a good job of controlling costs in the
state. It seems as if the legislative branch has done its job
in conjunction with the governor. The increases in the budget
come from federal dollars and the permanent fund. He said he's
not sure what this tool accomplishes.
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS commented that this says the public will
have a chance to decide.
Number 1996
JACK KREINHEDER, Chief Analyst, Office of the Director, Office
of Management & Budget, Office of the Governor, explained that
the other resolution by Senator Kelly, SCR 29, is an appropriate
vehicle for expressing the legislature's desires, and the
administration doesn't have a problem with that type of
resolution. He said the administration takes this resolution
much more seriously because it is a change in the balance of
power. He said he has a lot of respect for the drafters of the
constitution.
MR. KREINHEDER commented that the main issue here is the
question, "Does this rise to a level of a constitutional
amendment?" He encouraged the committee to imagine the
constitutional drafters debating this issue: "Shall we give the
legislature the authority to order the governor to do a hiring
freeze?" He thinks if the members look at it that way, it is
certainly not something they would have considered adding to the
constitution back at that time, and in the administration's
view, is not appropriate now.
MR. KREINHEDER agreed that there is a potential legal issue.
The Department of Law has said that there is national case law
in other states that a significant change in the balance of
power between the legislature and the executive branch or the
court system cannot be done by a constitutional amendment. It
has to be through a revision to the constitution, which would
have to be done in a constitutional convention rather than
through an amendment placed on the ballot. Whether this rises
to that level of a "significant change" is an open debate.
Number 1810
MR. KREINHEDER referred to a case in an Eastern state where a
constitutional amendment was overturned because the court
determined it had to be done through a revision and not a
constitutional amendment.
MR. KREINHEDER said even if this passed, he thinks it would be
difficult to enforce. There would have to be some kind of
review and exemption process.
Number 1691
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES asked how much a lawsuit would cost if
there were one on this issue.
MR. KREINHEDER replied he was reluctant to hazard a guess but
could look into that.
Number 1621
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES indicated that she tended to agree with the
unconstitutionality. Crossing the line and making a
constitutional amendment between the legislature and executive
branch certainly is the people's decision to make. For the
legislature to let the people decide, it would only have the
opportunity to put it on [the ballot] as a constitutional
amendment. She said that somehow she feels going to court to
get a decision is something that is done all the time. She said
she would be more enthusiastic about this issue just to get the
answer, whether or not it is the proper thing to do.
MR. KREINHEDER said that the idea of passing a constitutional
amendment to resolve a question in court doesn't resolve the
issue of whether a hiring freeze rises to the level of a
constitutional amendment.
MR. KREINHEDER wondered, if there were a Republican governor in
office, whether this amendment would even be looked at. The
Alaska constitution is going to be in place for hundreds and
hopefully thousands of years, and he said, people need to be
careful about "cluttering up the constitution" with things that
are based a fairly temporary circumstances of who is governor
and who is in the legislature. The constitution should be
something that guides the state for a long time.
Number 1373
CHAIR COGHILL said he agreed that they want to be careful with
the structure of government. But there have been many key
decisions handed into the hands of several governors that have
significantly changed the State of Alaska without any "purview."
The balance of power is certainly going to be a continuing
discussion, and has been from the statehood compact until now.
He said he personally feels that this is a worthwhile discussion
because even though there are management issues to be resolved,
certainly they have to work hand in hand. Even the power of the
purse is somewhat limited because of the size of the executive
branch.
Number 1238
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES agreed that this debate is always going to
be there. If there's a problem in the executive branch, the
general public thinks the legislature can fix it. And that's
not always the case, and not always should be the case, because
there is the separation of powers. This is going to take a lot
of thought on the part of the legislature.
Number 1140
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON expressed concerns about the overall
ramifications but said she is willing to move the bill on to the
House Judiciary Standing Committee.
Number 0961
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES reiterated his earlier concerns. He said
the real crux of the issue is how the state should produce new
revenue.
CHAIR COGHILL said that asking the people for a shift in
authority is not inappropriate. He also agreed that SJR 37 is
not a panacea; it is a tool.
Number 0512
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said he believes that this hiring freeze
is a "smoke screen sort of issue" that keeps the legislature
from getting to the most pressing issue: "We don't pay for
government; we've had a free ride for 20 years, and it's time
that the people of this state step up to the plate and share
responsibility for the state government."
Number 0395
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS moved to report SJR 37 out of committee
with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal
notes. There being no objection, SJR 37 was reported out of the
House State Affairs Standing Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting of the House State Affairs Standing Committee was
recessed at 9:38 a.m. to Thursday, April 18, 2002.
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