Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/22/1994 08:00 AM House STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
March 22, 1994
8:00 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Al Vezey, Chairman
Representative Pete Kott, Vice Chairman
Representative Bettye Davis
Representative Gary Davis
Representative Harley Olberg
Representative Jerry Sanders
Representative Fran Ulmer
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
*HB 482: "An Act making permanent a temporary
requirement relating to the provision of
employment information to the state."
HELD OVER
*HB 513: "An Act relating to financial assistance for
certain owners or operators of underground
petroleum storage tank systems; and providing
for an effective date."
CSHB 513 PASSED OUT
*HB 481: "An Act relating to audits of recipients of
grants and of certain other financial
assistance from state agencies."
NOT HEARD
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE MARK HANLEY
Alaska State Legislature
Alaska State Capitol, Room 515
Juneau, AK 99811-0460
Phone: 465-4939
POSITION STATEMENT: Prime sponsor of HB 482
JOHN MALLONEE, Deputy Director
Child Support Enforcement Division
Department of Revenue
P.O. Box 400100
Juneau, AK 99811
Phone: 465-4880
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 482
JOHN BARNETT, Executive Director
Board of Storage Tank Assistance
410 Willoughby
Juneau, AK 99801
Phone: 465-5219
POSITION STATEMENT: Addressed HB 513
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 482
SHORT TITLE: EMPLOYMENT INFO PROVIDED TO THE STATE
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) HANLEY,Ulmer
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/14/94 2377 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/14/94 2377 (H) STATE AFFAIRS
03/15/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
03/22/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
BILL: HB 513
SHORT TITLE: GRANTS/LOANS FOR STORAGE TANK OWNERS
SPONSOR(S): LABOR & COMMERCE
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/28/94 2551 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/28/94 2551 (H) L&C, STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY
03/02/94 2586 (H) L&C REFERRAL WAIVED
03/15/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
03/22/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
BILL: HB 481
SHORT TITLE: AUDITS OF STATE GRANT & AID RECIPIENTS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) BUNDE
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/14/94 2377 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/14/94 2377 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE
03/15/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
03/22/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-36, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIRMAN AL VEZEY called the meeting to order at 8:00 a.m.
Members present were REPRESENTATIVES SANDERS, G. DAVIS,
OLBERG, B. DAVIS and ULMER. A quorum was present.
CHAIRMAN VEZEY announced the sponsor of HB 481,
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE, had requested it be postponed.
CHAIR VEZEY had anticipated moving HB 238; however, it was
delayed in House Resources so it was postponed.
HB 482 - EMPLOYMENT INFORMATION PROVIDED TO THE STATE
CHAIRMAN VEZEY opened HB 482 for discussion.
Number 032
REPRESENTATIVE MARK HANLEY, prime sponsor, addressed HB 482.
He said, in 1991, REPRESENTATIVE FRAN ULMER sponsored a bill
which would require employers of 20+ employees to submit
monthly reports to the Child Support Enforcement Authority
(CSED) to help find those people not paying their child
support. The intent of this bill was to collect more child
support payments, and it was successful. The actual results
of the bill were substantially higher than those estimated
in its passage, he stated. He explained a sunset clause,
ending January 1, 1995, was included in this bill and the
intent of HB 482 is to repeal it.
REPRESENTATIVE HANLEY outlined the old law was in one
section and the new law was in another; therefore HB 482
would provide two effective dates. One date for the new
section, and the old law would go into effect on January 1,
1995, at the same time the new law is repealed from the
statute.
REPRESENTATIVE HANLEY emphasized he had also been skeptical
about the burden of the original bill, but in talking to
larger companies they have not felt it to be overly
burdensome and the results of the additional collections
have been positive.
REPRESENTATIVE HANLEY emphasized the more money contributed
to child support, means less payments the state has to make
in aid to families with many children. When families are
receiving child support they usually are receiving enough
money, whereby they do not need to utilize state services.
Number 099
REPRESENTATIVE HARLEY OLBERG stated 50 percent goes to the
general fund. He asked if the rest of the money goes to
program receipts.
Number 104
REPRESENTATIVE HANLEY deferred the question to the next
witness.
Number 109
CHAIRMAN VEZEY introduced JOHN MALLONEE as the next
individual to testify.
Number 119
JOHN MALLONEE, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, CHILD SUPPORT ENFORCEMENT
DIVISION, DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, supported HB 482. He
responded to CHAIRMAN VEZEY's previous question stating the
CSED collects child support money if it is reimbursement for
Aid for Families with Dependent Children (AFDC). He stated
50 percent goes to the general fund and 50 percent goes to
reimburse the share that AFDC paid.
Number 132
CHAIRMAN VEZEY stated the money was child support money, not
AFDC money.
Number 136
MR. MALLONEE clarified once a family goes on AFDC, they sign
over their rights to their child support to the state, up to
the amount which they are given grants by AFDC.
Number 140
CHAIRMAN VEZEY responded not everyone involved in the
program goes on AFDC.
Number 141
MR. MALLONEE agreed, money is collected and directly given
to those families who do not go on AFDC in the attempt to
keep them off AFDC.
Number 144
CHAIRMAN VEZEY commented the program is experimental and is
set up to affect employers who employ more than 20 people by
giving them a monthly reporting requirement. In practice,
the program has been implemented on selected employers of 50
or more. He felt if HB 481 were to pass, the base of
employers would expand.
Number 152
MR. MALLONEE replied HB 482 can be expanded down to include
all employers who employ at least 20 individuals.
Number 155
CHAIRMAN VEZEY stated all the employers he had talked to
indicated the report takes three or more hours to complete
every month.
Number 158
MR. MALLONEE responded he found that estimation hard to
believe. As an accountant, he did not feel information that
was readily available on a W-4 or an I-9 would take three or
more hours to access on a monthly basis. The whole
requirement of actually withholding, which employers are
already required to do whether or not the current law
sunsets, may take three or more hours depending upon the
size of the company.
Number 171
CHAIRMAN VEZEY stated the biggest problem employers have is
knowing who to withhold from. Statute holds the employer in
perpetuity for an employee's withholding order. Records
must by kept on all past employees.
Number 182
MR. MALLONEE assumed CHAIRMAN VEZEY was referring to the
requirement, whereby once a withholding order is delivered
to an employer, if that employee leaves and later returns,
that withholding order has not been satisfied.
Number 186
CHAIRMAN VEZEY felt this requirement would cost the employer
the most time to search through the records.
Number 189
REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG asked if previous legislation had been
heard dealing with that requirement.
CHAIRMAN VEZEY answered similar legislation was before the
Health, Education & Social Services Committee recently;
however, it dealt with a different statute and only had
similar language.
CHAIRMAN VEZEY felt there were problems with the current
child support statutes. He stated, after talking with
employers, the aspect of working with CSED that bothers them
the most is the unknown liability of having to keep track of
every employee they have ever had. He asked if a more
reasonable process could be found for the employers.
Number 205
MR. MALLONEE replied the process was not unreasonable,
because an employer is already required to keep employee
records for several years after their employment, e.g., IRS,
employee reporting records, tax records, etc.. He noted if
there is some question to the records, they may never be
subject to a statute of limitations.
Number 214
CHAIRMAN VEZEY commented he was not aware of that as an
employer.
Number 217
MR. MALLONEE stated the CSED did not want to put an unfair
burden on employers. Employers argue the CSED has the
records available through Department of Labor reporting.
This is true, but the CSED cannot access the records until
four months after the fact. He emphasized that an
individual working in Alaska over the summer, is already
gone four months after the fact.
Number 230
CHAIRMAN VEZEY inquired if the broadest scope of information
would come from hiring dispatch halls.
MR. MALLONEE answered information has also been obtained
from those sources.
Number 237
CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked if statute required the dispatch halls
to give the CSED information.
Number 238
MR. MALLONEE said he would have to check the statutes for
its location, but the CSED had, in fact, issued items to
union halls.
Number 243
REPRESENTATIVE FRAN ULMER assumed the Department of Revenue
would like to continue the program.
Number 244
MR. MALLONEE affirmed REPRESENTATIVE ULMER, and reinforced
that the program had brought in a large amount of
collections in the previous year. The last report by an
outside firm he had received about the program, indicated
the difference between the control group and the target
group was $621,000 last year. Estimates in 1991 stated if
the program was expanded to all employers, it could bring in
as much as $7.5 million in addition to current collections.
Number 258
CHAIRMAN VEZEY stated he would like hear back from MR.
MALLONEE on some of the questions he had raised. HB 482 in
was held in committee pending more information.
HB 513 - GRANTS/LOANS FOR STORAGE TANK OWNERS
CHAIRMAN VEZEY opened HB 513, sponsored by the House Labor &
Commerce Committee, for discussion.
Number 272
JOHN BARNETT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, BOARD OF STORAGE TANK
ASSISTANTS, supported HB 513. He stated the Board of
Storage Tank Assistants is an appeal board that works with
the Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) to
administer the storage tank assistance fund. This program
issues grants and loans to regulated underground storage
tank owners throughout the state to help them offset the
high cost of environmental compliance.
MR. BARNETT outlined the sections of HB 513. Section 1
clarifies the authority of the board to hear all eligibility
appeals. Existing statute allows the board to hear appeals
on eligible costs, but the board has about 150 applicants
that have been determined completely ineligible. He noted
several of these applicants feel they were determined
ineligible based on an interpretive decision by DEC, based
on a policy which may be inconsistent with the original
intent of the program. He stated these owners would like a
sort of forum, where their concerns could be heard.
MR. BARNETT stated Section 2 of HB 513, corrects an
oversight in the original bill. The upgrade in closure
program under current law does not have a sunset date.
Section 2 would provide a sunset clause to the storage tank
assistance fund closure and upgrade application period. The
sunset would be consistent with the cleanup application
deadline.
MR. BARNETT stated Section 3 of HB 513, allows upgrade in
closure applicants still waiting to be funded, to continue
to be eligible for financial assistance for cleanup, after
the cleanup deadline passes. He noted they had expected to
fund all of the closure and upgrades several years ago;
however, at this time over 400 applicants exist that will
not discover petroleum contamination until after the cleanup
application sunsets. Applicants will be eligible for
cleanup as long as they are already on the list.
Number 347
CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked what would happen if HB 513 did not
take effect until October 1, 1994.
MR. BARNETT answered the date was originally proposed to be
consistent with current law, July 1, 1994. He stated the
board would support any amendments to allow for the
applicants to be notified.
Number 355
CHAIRMAN VEZEY noted a two-thirds vote would be necessary to
establish an effective date.
Number 358
MR. BARNETT clarified he was referring to Section 2, where
the application for assistance must be submitted before July
1, 1994.
Number 362
CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked how HB 513 clarifies the relationship
between the board and the DEC.
MR. BARNETT answered the board has applicants who have been
denied any financial assistance whatsoever. For example,
failure to report a release when, in fact, they had already
bought a facility that was already contaminated. Existing
statute includes language which refers to being in
compliance with existing laws. There is also language which
provides for amnesty over a six month period once the
applicant has registered their facility. He emphasized DEC
sometimes takes a very strict interpretive view of the
statutes and regulations. He gave an example of an
applicant who, after noncompliance, came into compliance
prior to the effective date of the original bill, but was
still termed ineligible forever by the DEC. He termed the
DEC interpretation as "once a criminal, always a criminal."
He felt the board should be able to help mediate the dispute
so the objective of cleaning up the sights can be met. The
new section clarifies the requirements for a forum would be
eligibility in general, not just costs.
Number 414
CHAIRMAN VEZEY clarified there was currently no appeal for a
DEC decision and the new section would provide for one.
MR. BARNETT affirmed CHAIRMAN VEZEY.
Number 419
CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked if a committee member would move to
amend HB 513 whereas the date in Section 2 be amended from
"July 1, 1994" to "December 31, 1994."
Number 428
REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG so moved.
Number 433
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER questioned if the change would
significantly impact the number of people who have filed
applications or impact the business of the board.
MR. BARNETT answered the applicants were originally
considered when the program began. They had expected to
have already funded them, but with the limitations in
funding over the past three years they had fallen behind.
The change would not provide impact that was not already
considered from the original legislation.
Number 442
CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked the committee secretary to call the
roll the amendment to HB 513.
IN FAVOR: REPRESENTATIVES VEZEY, KOTT, ULMER, B. DAVIS,
G. DAVIS, SANDERS, OLBERG
CHAIRMAN VEZEY announced the amendment to HB 513 was
adopted.
CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked if the dates would have to be adjusted
in Section 3.
Number 450
MR. BARNETT replied Section 3(a)(1) would have to be
adjusted.
Number 453
CHAIRMAN VEZEY inquired about the date in Section 3,
subsection 2.
Number 454
MR. BARNETT responded Section 3, subsection 2, refers to a
date currently in statute and is also consistent with the
federal Environmental Protection Agency requirement. He
stated it should not be changed.
Number 457
CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked if REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG had a motion
to change Section 3, line 9, from "July 1, 1994" to
"December 31, 1994."
Number 458
REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG so moved.
Number 463
CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked the committee secretary to call the
roll.
IN FAVOR: REPRESENTATIVES VEZEY, KOTT, ULMER, B. DAVIS,
G. DAVIS, SANDERS, OLBERG
CHAIRMAN VEZEY announced the second amendment to HB 513 had
been adopted.
Number 466
REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS moved to adopt the committee
substitute for HB 513 reflecting the amendments made by the
committee.
CHAIRMAN VEZEY announced, hearing no opposition, the
committee substitute for HB 513 had been adopted.
Number 485
REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS moved to pass CSHB 513 out of
committee with individual recommendations and accompanying
fiscal notes.
Number 490
CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked the committee secretary to call the
roll.
IN FAVOR: REPRESENTATIVES VEZEY, KOTT, ULMER, B. DAVIS,
G. DAVIS, SANDERS, OLBERG.
CHAIRMAN VEZEY announced CSHB 513 had passed from the House
State Affairs Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
CHAIRMAN VEZEY, having no more business before the
committee, adjourned the meeting at 8:30 a.m.
BILLS NOT HEARD
HB 481 - AUDITS OF STATE GRANT & AID RECIPIENTS
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