Legislature(2021 - 2022)GRUENBERG 120

02/23/2021 03:00 PM STATE AFFAIRS

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ HB 3 DEFINITION OF "DISASTER": CYBERSECURITY TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
*+ HB 32 IMMUNITY FOR RV PARKS, CAMPGROUNDS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
**Streamed live on AKL.tv**
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
             HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                           
                       February 23, 2021                                                                                        
                           3:01 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                             DRAFT                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins, Chair                                                                                   
Representative Geran Tarr                                                                                                       
Representative Andi Story                                                                                                       
Representative Matt Claman                                                                                                      
Representative Sarah Vance                                                                                                      
Representative James Kaufman                                                                                                    
Representative David Eastman                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 3                                                                                                                
"An Act relating to the definition of 'disaster.'"                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 32                                                                                                               
"An Act providing civil immunity to recreational vehicle park                                                                   
owners for certain damages; and providing civil immunity from                                                                   
liability related to the inherent risks of camping."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB  3                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE: DEFINITION OF "DISASTER": CYBERSECURITY                                                                            
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) JOHNSON                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
02/18/21       (H)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/8/21                                                                                
02/18/21       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/18/21       (H)       STA, JUD                                                                                               
02/23/21       (H)       STA AT 3:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB  32                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: IMMUNITY FOR RV PARKS, CAMPGROUNDS                                                                                 
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) RAUSCHER                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
02/18/21       (H)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/8/21                                                                                
02/18/21       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/18/21       (H)       STA, JUD                                                                                               
02/23/21       (H)       STA AT 3:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DELENA JOHNSON                                                                                                   
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Introduced HB 3 as the prime sponsor.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ERIC CORDERO, Staff                                                                                                             
Representative DeLena Johnson                                                                                                   
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented HB 3 on behalf of Representative                                                               
Johnson, prime sponsor.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MARK BREUNIG, Chief Technology Officer                                                                                          
Office of Information Technology                                                                                                
Department of Administration                                                                                                    
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Offered testimony pertaining to HB 3.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAUL NELSON, Director                                                                                                           
Division of Homeland Security & Emergency Management                                                                            
Department of Military & Veterans' Affairs                                                                                      
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions during the hearing on HB
3.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
PETER HOUSE, CEO                                                                                                                
Deeptree, Inc.                                                                                                                  
Wasilla, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT:  Offered testimony in support of HB 3.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GEORGE RAUSCHER                                                                                                  
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Introduced HB 3 as the prime sponsor.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JESSE LOGAN, Staff                                                                                                              
Representative George Rauscher                                                                                                  
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented HB  32 on behalf of Representative                                                             
Rauscher, prime sponsor.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
LAURA SAXE, Owner                                                                                                               
Eagle's Rest RV Park & Cabins;                                                                                                  
Chair, Alaska Campground Owner's Association                                                                                    
Valdez, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Offered testimony pertaining to HB 32.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SANDON FISHER, Attorney                                                                                                         
Legislative Legal Services                                                                                                      
Legislative Affairs Agency                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions  during the hearing on HB
32.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:01:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JONATHAN KREISS-TOMKINS  called  the  House State  Affairs                                                             
Standing   Committee    meeting   to    order   at    3:01   p.m.                                                               
Representatives Kaufman, Eastman, Vance,  Tarr, Story and Kreiss-                                                               
Tomkins  were  present at  the  call  to order.    Representative                                                               
Claman arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
         HB  3-DEFINITION OF "DISASTER": CYBERSECURITY                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:05:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS  announced that the first  order of business                                                               
would be HOUSE BILL NO. 3,  "An Act relating to the definition of                                                               
'disaster.'"                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:06:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DELENA JOHNSON,  Alaska State  Legislature, prime                                                               
sponsor, introduced HB 3.  She  stated that there are many events                                                               
that elicit  an emergency  declaration; however,  a cybersecurity                                                               
threat  is not  one of  them.   She informed  the committee  that                                                               
current  Alaska statutes  are  vague on  whether  a cyber  attack                                                               
could  qualify for  such  a declaration.   She  said  HB 3  would                                                               
provide   clarity  by   adding  cybersecurity   attacks  to   the                                                               
definition  of disaster,  so  in the  event  it's needed,  action                                                               
could be  taken, and resources could  be used.  She  relayed that                                                               
there is an  alarming rate of cyber threats  throughout the world                                                               
and  referenced a  recent cyber  attack on  the Matanuska-Susitna                                                               
(Mat-Su)  Borough,   which  created  disruptions   in  day-to-day                                                               
service operations.   She noted that the city of  Valdez was also                                                               
the target  of a  ransomware attack that  was costly  to resolve.                                                               
Additionally,  she  reported  that several  state  agencies  were                                                               
target  by cyber  criminals, including  Department of  Health and                                                               
Social  Services  (DHSS)  and  the Division  of  Elections.    To                                                               
conclude, she  asserted that cybersecurity should  qualify for an                                                               
emergency declaration  to allow for  the use of  emergency funds;                                                               
the application  of funds and  other resources that might  not be                                                               
otherwise readily available; and disaster preparation planning.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:08:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ERIC CORDERO, Staff, Representative  DeLena Johnson, Alaska State                                                               
Legislature, on  behalf of  Representative Johnson,  continued to                                                               
present HB 3.  He reiterated  that the bill adds cybersecurity to                                                               
the  definition of  a disaster  -  more specifically,  HB 3  adds                                                               
subsection (F)  to AS  26.20.900, the  general provisions  of the                                                               
Alaska Disaster Act.  Subsection (F) read as follows:                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     (F)  a  cybersecurity   attack  that  affects  critical                                                                
     infrastructure  in  the  state, an  information  system                                                                
     owned  or operated  by the  state, information  that is                                                                
     stored  on,   processed  by,   or  transmitted   on  an                                                                
     information system  owned or operated by  the state, or                                                                
     a credible  threat of an imminent  cybersecurity attack                                                                
     or  cybersecurity vulnerability  that the  commissioner                                                                
     of administration or  commissioner's designee certifies                                                                
     to the governor has a  high probability of occurring in                                                                
     the  near future;  the certification  must be  based on                                                                
     specific  information that  critical infrastructure  in                                                                
     the state,  an information system owned  or operated by                                                                
     the state, or information  that is stored on, processed                                                                
     by, or  transmitted on an  information system  owned or                                                                
     operated by the state may be affected;                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. CORDERO clarified that the  language, "the certification must                                                               
be based on specific information  that critical infrastructure in                                                               
the state," covers  agencies within the nonprofit  sector and the                                                               
private  sector  that  have  responsibilities  regarding  health,                                                               
energy, telecommunication,  or transportation to the  public.  He                                                               
further  noted  that  the  Department  of  Military  &  Veterans'                                                               
Affairs  (DMVA)  is  responsible   for  planning,  managing,  and                                                               
creating    the   list    of    qualifications   for    "critical                                                               
infrastructure," which Mr.  Cordero could not obtain.   He stated                                                               
that  critical   infrastructure  is  not  defined   under  Alaska                                                               
statutes, adding that  DMVA uses the U.S.  Department of Homeland                                                               
Security's  definition.   He went  on  to add  that according  to                                                               
Legislative  Legal   Services,  the   governor  could,   in  some                                                               
instances,  call  an  emergency  if there  were  a  cybersecurity                                                               
attack or threat;  however, the statutes are vague  because in in                                                               
2000,  the legislature  removed the  words "manmade  causes" from                                                               
the Alaska  Disaster Act.   He noted  that other states  that can                                                               
issue a statewide emergency on  cybersecurity have relied on that                                                               
language.   There is, he  said, a  small provision in  the Alaska                                                               
statute  that  mentions  "equipment," which  arguably,  could  be                                                               
considered  information systems  or  a database.   He  emphasized                                                               
that HB  3 would clarify  and update  the language in  the Alaska                                                               
Disaster Act.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:12:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. CORDERO reported per the  Department of Administration (DOA),                                                               
that in  the last 10  years, there have  been as many  as 817,000                                                               
attempted attacks  per year that  are general in nature,  such as                                                               
spam  mail,   viruses,  and  malware,  and   400,000  [attempted]                                                               
directed  attacks per  year, which  are focused  against specific                                                               
individuals,  systems, or  departments.   He noted  that not  all                                                               
attempted  attacks were  successful.   He  stated that  annually,                                                               
there  have been  497 successful  attacks against  the state,  in                                                               
which  systems or  data were  either infiltrated  or compromised.                                                               
He added that historically, the  most targeted state agencies are                                                               
Division  of   Elections,  Division  of  Motor   Vehicles  (DMV),                                                               
Department   of   Revenue   (DOR),  DHSS,   and   Department   of                                                               
Transportation & Public Facilities (DOTPF).                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:14:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS opened invited testimony.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:15:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARK  BREUNIG, Chief  Technology Officer,  Office of  Information                                                               
Technology, Department of  Administration, informed the committee                                                               
that states  such as Florida,  Texas, and Washington, as  well as                                                               
the  federal  government,  have been  impacted  by  cybersecurity                                                               
attacks.  He  reported that in July 2018, the  Mat-Su Borough and                                                               
the city  of Valdez were  victims of  cyber attacks, and  in both                                                               
cases, critical  services were disrupted, and  significant damage                                                               
was caused.   Ultimately, emergency relief funding  in the Mat-Su                                                               
Borough  alone exceeded  $2.5 million.    As one  of the  on-site                                                               
volunteers to help restore service,  he recalled asking "where is                                                               
the state?"   Upon joining  DOA, he  realized that the  state was                                                               
not  unsympathetic,   but  the   language  to  address   a  major                                                               
cybersecurity attack was  missing from Alaska statutes.   He said                                                               
HB 3  seeks to remedy that  gap.  He addressed  several instances                                                               
of cybersecurity attacks in other  states, such as Florida, where                                                               
attackers gained access to industrial  control systems at a water                                                               
treatment plant  and attempted to  increase the amount  of sodium                                                               
hydroxide.   He opined that  the additional  language in HB  3 is                                                               
critical  to  support  processes  and  the  success  of  disaster                                                               
remediation in Alaska.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:17:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  EASTMAN   asked  how   far  the   Mat-Su  Borough                                                               
progressed  into  the  disaster declaration  process  before  the                                                               
missing language became an obstacle.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BREUNIG  reported  that the  Mat-Su  Borough's  request  was                                                               
received, but there was no legally viable recourse.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:18:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN inquired about  the likelihood of receiving                                                               
information  on  a  pending  cybersecurity  attack,  which  could                                                               
result in a disaster declaration, before it happens.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. BREUNIG  said the time  interval from  receiving intelligence                                                               
before an  attack to the  time of  an actual attack  continues to                                                               
shrink,  which  is why  intelligence  from  federal and  industry                                                               
partners is  greatly valued.   He provided  the example  of solar                                                               
winds, explaining  that the  state received  the update  on solar                                                               
winds hours before it hit  everywhere else allowing Alaska to act                                                               
quickly.  Nonetheless,  he reiterated that the  days of receiving                                                               
advanced notice are disappearing.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN surmised  that in  terms of  cybersecurity                                                               
attacks pertaining to  critical data, "we're not  talking about a                                                               
disaster  declaration  because   tomorrow  we  think  something's                                                               
coming - it's going  to be ... this just happened  ... and now we                                                               
need help fixing it and it's going to take time and money."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. BREUNIG replied it  will be a mix.  He  pointed out that [the                                                               
state] received word of "certain  Iranian activities" one week in                                                               
advance.   He emphasized that  typically, the amount  of advanced                                                               
notice varies, if any is received at all.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:21:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAUFMAN  asked  if  HB   3  goes  far  enough  to                                                               
encompass  the state's  cybersecurity  needs.   Additionally,  he                                                               
asked if Hb 3 is missing any components.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BREUNIG said there is work that  needs to be done, but [HB 3]                                                               
is a significant start.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:22:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KREISS-TOMKINS asked  if beyond  the scope  of this  bill,                                                               
there  are recommendations  that the  legislature should  further                                                               
explore or investigate regarding cybersecurity in general.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BREUNIG answered yes, adding  that he would welcome a follow-                                                               
up discussion and further investigation.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:22:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  VANCE  inquired  about  available  federal  funds                                                               
specific to cyber attacks in a declared emergency.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BREUNIG relayed  that the  state currently  receives funding                                                               
through  the  Federal  Emergency  Management  Agency  (FEMA)  for                                                               
emergency response.  He noted  that recently, CISA [Cybersecurity                                                               
&  Infrastructure Security  Agency]  announced  its intention  to                                                               
contribute additional  funding; however, the amount  and the date                                                               
of availability has not been publicized.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS asked what the acronym "CISA" stands for.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BREUNIG  answered  Cybersecurity &  Infrastructure  Security                                                               
Agency.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:24:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STORY asked if  qualifying for assistance requires                                                               
reaching a certain level of disaster.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. BREUNIG said there is  a framework and different criteria for                                                               
determining the level of attack and disaster.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  STORY   requested  that  a  description   of  the                                                               
criteria be provided to the committee.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. BREUNIG offered to follow up with the requested information.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:25:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAUL NELSON, Director, Division  of Homeland Security & Emergency                                                               
Management, Department  of Military  & Veterans'  Affairs (DMVA),                                                               
said  he  has  no  official  testimony  prepared  at  this  time;                                                               
however, he is available for questions from the committee.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:26:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  EASTMAN offered  his understanding  that DMVA  is                                                               
involved in  the process  of declaring  a disaster.   Referencing                                                               
Page  2  of the  bill,  he  asked  if  the Division  of  Homeland                                                               
Security  and   Emergency  Management  helps   determine  whether                                                               
something is a cybersecurity vulnerability.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. NELSON  acknowledged that the  division has a minor  role and                                                               
follows the  lead of  OIT [Office  of Information  Technology] to                                                               
identify  cybersecurity  vulnerabilities.    He  added  that  the                                                               
division  and  OIT work  with  other  federal and  infrastructure                                                               
partners - both public utility  and private sector - to determine                                                               
the  vulnerabilities in  the cybersecurity  domain and,  ideally,                                                               
mitigate and eliminate them.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:27:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAUFMAN  asked where Alaska stands  in relation to                                                               
others.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. NELSON replied from the  perspective of emergency management,                                                               
Alaska seems to  be okay, but there's more work  to be done going                                                               
forward.   He opined  that HB  3 is a  great start,  later noting                                                               
that  there is  no  indication that  [cybersecurity attacks]  are                                                               
going to stop, they will only grow more advanced.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:29:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS  asked if HB 3  were to pass, how  the state                                                               
would  evaluate the  impact of  the cybersecurity  attack on  the                                                               
Mat-Su Borough.   He asked  whether it would reach  the threshold                                                               
of warranting a disaster declaration.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  NELSON  explained  that  Division  of  Homeland  Security  &                                                               
Emergency Management would set up  the state emergency operations                                                               
center wherever the intrusion occurred  and evaluate the response                                                               
and  immediate needs  while following  OIT's lead,  which is  the                                                               
standard foundation for any type  of response, be it flooding, an                                                               
earthquake, or  a cybersecurity attack.   He said the  absence of                                                               
cybersecurity attack  from the definition  of disaster  within AS                                                               
26.23.900 "makes it  more obscure," whereas the language  in HB 3                                                               
would help improve the state emergency operations plan.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BREUNIG expanded on Mr.  Nelson's comments by noting that the                                                               
National  Guard is  building cyber  capability through  their own                                                               
mandate.  He explained that  identifying this as a leverage point                                                               
for  declaring a  disaster  would enable  the  National Guard  to                                                               
provide cyber support throughout the state.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:32:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PETER  HOUSE, CEO,  Deeptree, Inc.,  informed the  committee that                                                               
his business  is an IT  firm that specializes in  risk management                                                               
with  a  particular  emphasis  on  cybersecurity.    He  provided                                                               
several  personal anecdotes,  one which  highlighted his  work on                                                               
the Mat-Su  Borough attack.  He  said he saw firsthand  the scope                                                               
of  the incident  and  the impact  on Alaskans.    He added  that                                                               
whether in  the scope of  losing access to essential  services or                                                               
disruptions   to  business,   the   [cybersecurity]  attack   was                                                               
functionally equivalent  to the organization being  impacted by a                                                               
traditionally defined  disaster.   As a  responder, he  said, the                                                               
level  of responsibility  was significant  because citizen  lives                                                               
were impacted by the lack  of digital infrastructure support.  He                                                               
explained  that the  responders had  two tasks  on hand:  restore                                                               
services  as quickly  as possible  and ensure  that the  evidence                                                               
required  by law  enforcement  and insurance  was  retained.   He                                                               
noted that sometimes, it felt like  those tasks were at odds with                                                               
each other when it came to  resources and staffing.  He recounted                                                               
that  due  to  the  depth  of  the  attack,  a  large  number  of                                                               
specialists and generalists was  required; further, for the first                                                               
few months,  the daily  briefings were at  capacity.   He offered                                                               
his  belief  that  the  Borough's   declaration  of  a  state  of                                                               
emergency  was essential  because of  those operational  factors.                                                               
He pointed out the extra  support that resulted from the disaster                                                               
declaration  made a  significant impact  on the  time it  took to                                                               
restore   services;   additionally,    they   received   improved                                                               
operational agility  and response  capabilities.   He went  on to                                                               
convey that that because Alaska  is sparsely populated and spread                                                               
out  over thousands  of miles,  the state  has a  unique profile,                                                               
which  makes  digital   technology  not  only  a   nicety  but  a                                                               
necessity.  Furthermore,  it places the digital  systems on which                                                               
Alaska  relies  in  a  state of  operational  significance.    He                                                               
pointed out  that sometimes the  replacements for  that equipment                                                               
are thousands of miles away.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOUSE continued by addressing the  2013 attack on Target.  He                                                               
said it's not  widely known that the attack had  an initial point                                                               
of entry through an HVAC  vendor.  The criminal actors identified                                                               
a  third-party vendor,  sent a  phishing  email, compromised  the                                                               
systems, and  rode an  engineer's laptop  onto the  networks when                                                               
the engineer went on site.   He emphasized the importance of that                                                               
story  because Alaska  is very  connected.   He opined  that when                                                               
considering  the  threat  of  exposure that  could  come  from  a                                                               
similar situation, Alaska  compared to other states  has a mildly                                                               
higher threat  profile given the state's  geographic location and                                                               
economy.   He  added  that  Alaska does  not  have many  economic                                                               
"crown jewels,"  but the few that  exist are very important.   He                                                               
concluded  by opining  that knowing  the  State of  Alaska has  a                                                               
strong  security  posture  and  the  ability  to  respond  to  an                                                               
emergency enhances the state's overall defensive position.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:38:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  EASTMAN  pointed out  that  HB  3 speaks  to  the                                                               
credible  threat of  an attack  or a  cybersecurity vulnerability                                                               
that  has a  high probability  of occurring  in the  future.   He                                                               
questioned whether  the language opens  the door for  a situation                                                               
in  which  Alaska  would  be  eligible for  a  disaster  for  the                                                               
foreseeable future.  He remarked:                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Or maybe,  based on your  experience, you  would expect                                                                    
     that [the]  window would close.   If so, when  would we                                                                    
     no  longer  be  in  the  situation  where  there  is  a                                                                    
     vulnerability  that  exists  that  could  trigger  this                                                                    
     disaster.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:39:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOUSE said typically, the  software developer - or whoever is                                                               
responsible   for  managing   the  solution   -  eliminates   the                                                               
vulnerability  by patching  the system.    He noted  that in  his                                                               
professional  experience,  he  has  never  seen  a  nonterminated                                                               
vulnerability; further adding that  in terms of mainline critical                                                               
infrastructure vulnerabilities,  there is a low  probability of a                                                               
vulnerability persisting for an interminable amount of time.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN questioned whether  Mr. House is referring                                                               
to an existing vulnerability or,  as the bill expresses, one that                                                               
has a high probability of occurring in the future.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HOUSE said  he could  not  speak to  that specific  passage;                                                               
however,  he offered  his understanding  that  when something  is                                                               
specifically classified  as a vulnerability,  it is  a "technical                                                               
exercise"  that  wouldn't  leave  room for  interpretation.    He                                                               
opined that the legislation as  it's currently written, would not                                                               
allow a  state of emergency  to continue for an  unlimited amount                                                               
of time.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:41:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  STORY expressed  her concern  that people  do not                                                               
have  basic  protections  in  place  to  [protect]  them  from  a                                                               
cybersecurity [attack].   She asked  if municipalities  and state                                                               
agencies are taking adequate precaution.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOUSE  recalled seeing higher  levels of  information sharing                                                               
and security, as well as  an uptick in security operation centers                                                               
(SOCs), since the  Mat-Su Borough event.  He  provided an example                                                               
of  an   institution  that  provides  threat   and  vulnerability                                                               
information sharing, which local  jurisdictions are partaking in.                                                               
Furthermore, He said more  professionals are undertaking advanced                                                               
education and  training.  He  noted his specialization  in memory                                                               
forensics,  a   specialized  portion  of  incident   response  to                                                               
cybersecurity events, in which the level of interest has risen.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:44:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  inquired about the  perpetrator's motivation                                                               
to carry out these attacks.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HOUSE said  motivations vary.   He  explained that  criminal                                                               
actors are  interested in auctioning  off the  stolen information                                                               
on the dark web.   Additionally, when the network is compromised,                                                               
he  recalled  a growing  practice  where  the network  itself  is                                                               
auctioned off for  criminal actors to pull the  data from, ransom                                                               
the network,  or both.  He  added that the motivation  for nation                                                               
state  actors also  varies  -  in general,  they  are looking  to                                                               
monetize the networks or gain geopolitical influence.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:46:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   TARR  questioned   whether  the   bill  language                                                               
pertaining to the commissioner designee should be more specific.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. CORDERO explained that  typically, each department determines                                                               
a  plan  they want  to  submit  to  DMVA  and DMVA  develops  the                                                               
mitigation and  response.  He noted  that DOA is included  in the                                                               
bill  language  because  it  houses  the  Office  of  Information                                                               
Technology.     He   added  that   the  language   regarding  the                                                               
commissioner designee is  for the committee to  consider at their                                                               
discretion.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:48:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN  expressed his  interest in  clarifying the                                                               
definition of critical infrastructure and what constitutes it.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:49:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.   CORDERO  read   from  the   document,   titled  "From   the                                                               
Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Security  Agency" [included in the                                                               
committee packet], as follows:                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     There  are  16  critical infrastructure  sectors  whose                                                                    
     assets,  systems,  and  networks, whether  physical  or                                                                    
     virtual, are  considered so vital to  the United States                                                                    
     that their  incapacitation or destruction would  have a                                                                    
     debilitating  effect  on  security,  national  economic                                                                    
     security,  national public  health  or  safety, or  any                                                                    
     combination thereof.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. CORDERO  acknowledged that  "critical infrastructure"  is not                                                               
defined in Alaska statutes.  He  added that the duty to make that                                                               
determination was given to [DMVA].                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:50:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN  sought to  clarify  whether  that is  the                                                               
federal definition.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. CORDERO answered yes.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN  pointed out that there  are other sections                                                               
in   statute  that   reference  federal   authority  or   federal                                                               
regulation.   He suggested including  a reference to  the federal                                                               
regulations  or federal  statutory  authority in  HB  3 to  avoid                                                               
writing a  definition that  changes every two  years.   He opined                                                               
that the  reference would  strengthen the  bill because  it would                                                               
align  the  state  and federal  definition  of  what  constitutes                                                               
critical infrastructure.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  CORDERO   agreed  that  it   could  help   clarify  critical                                                               
infrastructure.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:51:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  EASTMAN  asked  if   there  is  a  definition  of                                                               
cybersecurity that the bill refers to.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. CORDERO deferred to Mr. Breunig.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:52:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  VANCE  asked  if  the state  has  insurance  that                                                               
covers cybersecurity  attacks and  if so,  what criteria  must be                                                               
met to access it or other federal funding.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. CORDERO offered to follow up with the requested information.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:53:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KREISS-TOMKINS shared  his  understanding  that there  was                                                               
similar,  or   possibly  identical,   legislation  in   the  last                                                               
legislative  session.     He  asked  if   there  are  substantive                                                               
differences between the previous legislation and HB 3.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON answered  no and explained that  that HB 3                                                               
is a continuation of the same bill from last session.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KREISS-TOMKINS advised  that  there might  be a  committee                                                               
substitute with  a title change pending  further discussions with                                                               
the sponsor's office.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:54:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   CLAMAN   asked   who  sponsored   the   previous                                                               
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS answered Representative Johnson.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
[HB 3 was held over.]                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
           HB  32-IMMUNITY FOR RV PARKS, CAMPGROUNDS                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:55:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS  announced that the final  order of business                                                               
would be HOUSE  BILL NO. 32, "An Act providing  civil immunity to                                                               
recreational  vehicle  park  owners   for  certain  damages;  and                                                               
providing civil  immunity from liability related  to the inherent                                                               
risks of camping."                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:55:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GEORGE  RAUSCHER, Alaska State  Legislature, prime                                                               
sponsor, introduced HB 32.   He paraphrased the sponsor statement                                                               
[included in  the committee packet],  which read in  its entirety                                                               
as follows:                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     There are  at least  152 privately  owned RV  parks and                                                                    
     campgrounds across  the state of Alaska.  House Bill 32                                                                    
     seeks to  provide these facilities immunity  from civil                                                                    
     liability related to the inherent  risks in the outdoor                                                                    
     environment. This is similar  to current Alaska statues                                                                    
     for inherit risk  for the equestrian/livestock, skiing,                                                                    
     and sports and recreation industries.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     The bill  has a  compressive list of  natural features,                                                                    
     conditions, and  activities that  may pose a  danger or                                                                    
     hazard  and obligates  the  conspicuous  signage and  a                                                                    
     warning included  in any written contract  with a guest                                                                    
     of the campground.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     The  civil liability  immunity does  not  apply in  the                                                                    
     event off:                                                                                                                 
     - Negligence, recklessness,  or intentional misconduct,                                                                    
     or                                                                                                                         
     - Failure  to post  conspicuous signage as  warnings of                                                                    
     known hazards or conditions, or                                                                                            
     -  Failure   to  include  the  warning   in  a  written                                                                    
     contract.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     The bill  recognizes that there  are inherent  risks in                                                                    
     camping that  are beyond the  control of  the operator,                                                                    
     and that  the warnings and signage  may increase safety                                                                    
     for recreational users.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:58:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JESSE LOGAN, Staff, Representative  George Rauscher, Alaska State                                                               
Legislature, provided  additional background  on HB 32  on behalf                                                               
of Representative  Rauscher, prime  sponsor.  He  reiterated that                                                               
there are at  least 152 privately owned RV  parks and campgrounds                                                               
in  Alaska;  furthermore,  the  RV  Industry  Association  (RVIA)                                                               
Economic  Impact   Study  [included  in  the   committee  packet]                                                               
indicated that in 2019, RV  manufacturers & Suppliers, RV Sales &                                                               
Service, and RV  Campground and Travel accounted  for almost 1700                                                               
direct and  indirect jobs,  $84 million in  wages, and  over $242                                                               
million in  total economic output  for Alaska alone.   He pointed                                                               
out that  Alaskans have unprecedented  access to  the wilderness,                                                               
which is  one of  the many  reasons people visit  the state.   He                                                               
continued to  note that Alaska's  unique location  is accompanied                                                               
by  "unique   dangers,"  including   bears,  moose,   rocks,  and                                                               
branches.   He  referenced  a document  that  listed examples  of                                                               
inherent  risk  lawsuits  [included   in  the  committee  packet]                                                               
enacted  on private  campgrounds  in  other states,  specifically                                                               
noting a claimant  who was paid $608,867 after  being attacked by                                                               
a bear  at a private  campground, as well  as a claimant  who was                                                               
paid $151,593  after alleging the  campground failed  to maintain                                                               
safe conditions  on the  premises, causing her  to fall  when the                                                               
walkway  abruptly ended.   He  said  the aforementioned  examples                                                               
illustrate  that private  campgrounds  can and  do  get sued  for                                                               
injuries  sustained  for  such  things  as  tripping  on  natural                                                               
objects  that occur  inherently in  the  wilderness.   HB 32,  he                                                               
said, acknowledges  that there  is inherent  risk in  camping and                                                               
puts  RV parks  and campgrounds  "on the  same level"  as skiing,                                                               
equestrian  sports,   livestock,  recreational   activities,  and                                                               
camping.    He  cited  the  1994 Alaska  Safety  Skiing  Act,  AS                                                               
05.45.010  [Limitation on  Actions  Arising  from Skiing],  which                                                               
prevents a  person from  bringing action  against a  ski operator                                                               
for an injury  resulting from an inherent risk of  skiing, and AS                                                               
09.65.290   [Civil   Liability   for   Sports   or   Recreational                                                               
Activities], adding  that HB 32  extends the same  protections to                                                               
RV parks  and campgrounds.   He said the  RV industry is  a large                                                               
part  of the  state's economy,  operating as  part of  the multi-                                                               
billion-dollar Alaska tourism  industry.  He conveyed  that HB 32                                                               
would help  protect these locally  owned businesses  from lawsuit                                                               
liability   for   things   that  are   outside   their   control.                                                               
Furthermore, he  offered his belief that  the proposed obligatory                                                               
signage could help increase the safety and awareness of users.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:01:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LAURA SAXE, Owner,  Eagle's Rest RV Park &  Cabins; Chair, Alaska                                                               
Campground  Owner's Association,  stated  that HB  32 would  help                                                               
small  RV  parks and  campgrounds  grow  their business  to  full                                                               
potential by allowing more amenities  for guests by lessening the                                                               
fear of lawsuits.   She shared, for example, that  an owner might                                                               
avoid  installing   firepits  for   fear  of   burns,  playground                                                               
equipment  for  fear  of  child   injuries,  docks  for  fear  of                                                               
drowning, or additional  hiking trails for fear  of bear attacks.                                                               
She  emphasized  that  civil  liability  immunity  is  not  being                                                               
requested for  acts of  negligence, recklessness,  or intentional                                                               
misconduct;  however,   she  urged   the  legislature   to  grant                                                               
campgrounds  immunity   from  civil  liabilities   for  {indisc.)                                                               
damages  resulting from  the  conditions  expected from  camping.                                                               
She suggested  that HB 32  provide immunity from  civil liability                                                               
for  the inherent  risk  in camping,  similar  to current  Alaska                                                               
statutes for the inherent risk  in equestrian, livestock, skiing,                                                               
sports, and  recreational industries.  Those  inherent risks, she                                                               
said,  include  natural  conditions, uneven  terrain,  bodies  of                                                               
water,  lack of  lighting in  the campground,  weather, wildlife,                                                               
and campfires.   She  offered her  belief that  HB 32  would help                                                               
grow the  outdoor experience  that guests are  looking for.   She                                                               
added that  as a park  owner, her job is  to meet and  exceed her                                                               
guests' expectations for camping in  the great outdoors.  Despite                                                               
never having  personally experienced these issues,  she said it's                                                               
better  to be  proactive now  rather than  after the  fact.   She                                                               
reiterated  that she  is interested  in inherent  risk protection                                                               
not  protection from  negligence.   She opined  that HB  32 would                                                               
allow  for more  recreational  activities for  both Alaskans  and                                                               
visitors.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:04:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR referring to subsection  (c) on page 3, lines                                                               
6-10, sought clarification on the  legal ambiguity that may exist                                                               
for self-pay  locations.  She  asked if the  liability protection                                                               
for such locations had been considered.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. SAXE said she has seen  an increase in online check-ins since                                                               
COVID-19  to  lessen the  possibility  of  exposure and  maintain                                                               
social  distance.   She explained  that  the online  registration                                                               
process for  Eagle's Rest includes  a list of  conditions, rules,                                                               
and regulations that,  by clicking "accept," the  user agrees to.                                                               
She  noted   that  each  campground   has  different   rules  and                                                               
regulations, as well as unique  check-in processes.  Nonetheless,                                                               
she  added that  every  campground owner  should  have rules  and                                                               
conditions that their guests agree to when they check in.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR suggested  clarifying the  bill language  in                                                               
subsection (c) to encompass online check-ins.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KREISS-TOMKINS  asked Mr.  Fisher  for  his input  on  the                                                               
matter.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:08:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SANDON FISHER, Attorney,  Legislative Legal Services, Legislative                                                               
Affairs Agency, explained that HB  32 requires that every written                                                               
contract contain a warning.   He offered his understanding that a                                                               
contract  entered  online "where  a  writing  is produced"  would                                                               
constitute  a written  contract.    He added  if  the warning  is                                                               
included  on the  written contract  executed between  the parties                                                               
online   it  would   satisfy  the   requirements  of   the  bill.                                                               
Furthermore, HB 32  would not require the warning  be provided if                                                               
there is  no written contract  generated as drafted.   He further                                                               
noted  that the  bill does  not provide  the consequences  of not                                                               
including a warning in a written contract.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR  proposed  a  scenario in  which  a  written                                                               
contract, which  asks for the  number of guests, is  entered into                                                               
without listing all the guests.   She asked if the responsibility                                                               
falls  to   the  individual  who   filled  out   the  information                                                               
dishonestly.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. FISHER  offered his belief  that without specific  facts that                                                               
would  drastically impact  any  tort  litigation, the  campground                                                               
would likely  have fulfilled its duty  under the HB 32,  as every                                                               
guest included  in the contract  received the warning.   He added                                                               
that  in  the  proposed  scenario,   an  individual  entered  the                                                               
campground   without  permission,   which  could   be  considered                                                               
trespassing.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:11:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN asked Ms. Saxe  if she carries insurance on                                                               
her campground facility.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SAXE answered  yes,  adding  that she  is  required to  have                                                               
general liability insurance  on her park.  She opined  that HB 32                                                               
would lower rates at certain parks in some instances.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN asked what kind  of limits Ms. Saxe carries                                                               
for her park.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. SAXE answered higher than  "million/million."  She noted that                                                               
for most parks, "million/million" is the minimum.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN questioned  whether the  insurance company                                                               
takes her  history, or  lack thereof, of  claims into  account in                                                               
terms of the annual premium.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. SAXE answered yes.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN asked whether Ms.  Saxe is pleased with her                                                               
current rates or if her rates are unusually high.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. SAXE  said she  is pleased  with her  rates; however,  as the                                                               
chair of  the Alaska Campground  Owner's Association,  she shared                                                               
that other parks  are constantly shopping around.   She continued                                                               
to  clarify that  Eagle's  Rest is  more  of an  RV  park than  a                                                               
campground, whereas campgrounds surrounded  by nature tend to pay                                                               
higher insurance premiums.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:13:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR,  referencing page 2, lines  30-31, sought to                                                               
clarify   whether  negligence   or   gross   negligence  is   the                                                               
appropriate legal standard.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. SAXE deferred the question to Legislative Legal Services.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FISHER  explained   that  starting  on  page   2,  line  27,                                                               
subsection   (b)  states   that  the   immunity  provided   under                                                               
subsection (a) -  the inherent risks of camping -  does not apply                                                               
if the  inherent risk of camping  leads to an injury  that occurs                                                               
as  a result  of gross  negligence, recklessness,  or intentional                                                               
misconduct.   He  defined gross  negligence  as something  beyond                                                               
negligence  that  is  generally   reckless,  willful,  or  wanton                                                               
misconduct.   He  noted  that gross  negligence  is defined  once                                                               
under statute, later  adding that when courts  consider the term,                                                               
they look  at the statutory  reference creating the  standard and                                                               
the applicable facts related to the specific circumstance.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:17:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   TARR  offered   her  understanding   that  gross                                                               
negligence  is  similar  to intentional  misconduct  in  that  it                                                               
indicates more  than carelessness, but  also intent.   She sought                                                               
clarification on  the standards being  set by using  the language                                                               
"gross negligence, recklessness,  or intentional misconduct," and                                                               
questioned whether the standard it sets is too high.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. FISHER  relayed that determining negligence  requires showing                                                               
that the plaintiff breached the duty  of care that he/she owed to                                                               
the defendant,  which resulted in  damage caused.  He  added that                                                               
one must  consider how a  reasonable person would act  in similar                                                               
circumstances  and  if  the  defendant  acted  outside  of  that,                                                               
liability  can  be  imposed  under   negligence.    Beyond  that,                                                               
imposing  liability under  gross negligence  requires considering                                                               
whether  the defendant's  actions were  reckless, willful,  or an                                                               
extreme departure  from what  a reasonable person  would do.   he                                                               
noted that  in this  case, the appropriate  level of  scrutiny to                                                               
apply  is  a  policy  call  that  depends  on  the  will  of  the                                                               
legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOGAN in response to  Representative Tarr, pointed out that a                                                               
similar  statute  pertaining  to  ski  liability,  AS  05.45.020,                                                               
specifies that a skier may  recover for the negligence of another                                                               
skier from the skier but not  the operator.  He indicated that in                                                               
a  campground, if  a camper's  actions were  negligent, then  the                                                               
liability   would   fall   on  the   camper   rather   than   the                                                               
owner/operator.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:20:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN,  in reference  to the line  of questioning                                                               
between  Mr. Logan  and Representative  Tarr, offered  his belief                                                               
that the operative definition of  negligence and gross negligence                                                               
is contained in  the civil pattern jury  instructions that define                                                               
both terms.  He posed a  scenario in which an individual parks in                                                               
the  parking lot  of  a  ski area,  such  as  Alyeska, and  asked                                                               
whether the  gross negligence standard  would apply  to Alyeska's                                                               
parking lot  or if the  gross negligence standard would  apply to                                                               
the  mountain  where  ski activity  occurs,  and  the  negligence                                                               
standard would apply to the parking lot.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FISHER offered  his understanding  that  regarding ski  area                                                               
liability, AS  05.45 [Ski Liability, Safety,  and Responsibility]                                                               
carves out negligence with respect to  the ski area operator.  He                                                               
explained  that if  a  ski area  operator  acts negligently  with                                                               
respect  to an  inherent risk  of skiing,  the ski  area operator                                                               
could be held liable, which is defined under AS 05.45.200.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:22:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN  asked if parking  in a [ski  area] parking                                                               
lot is an inherent risk of skiing.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FISHER shared  his belief  that parking  in the  parking lot                                                               
would  not  fall  under  the  definition  of  "inherent  risk  of                                                               
skiing."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN surmised  that under  HB 32,  the inherent                                                               
risk  of skiing  would make  it difficult  to sue  Alyeska if  an                                                               
individual  were to  "do foolish  things" while  skiing, or  if a                                                               
child  goes skiing  in too  much  powder, falls  upside down  and                                                               
asphyxiates himself/herself; however, if  an individual slips and                                                               
falls in the parking lot because  the operator failed to sand the                                                               
lot correctly,  the individual could  sue the operator on  a slip                                                               
and  fall theory  with a  negligence standard  of liability.   He                                                               
further  surmised  that  HB  32 would  allow  an  individual  who                                                               
slipped  and fell  while getting  out of  his/her RV  to apply  a                                                               
gross  negligence standard  of liability.   He  asked if  that is                                                               
correct.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. FISHER confirmed that.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN asked  why an RV park  or campground should                                                               
be treated differently than the parking lot of a ski area.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FISHER indicated  that because  it's a  policy decision,  he                                                               
would defer to the bill sponsor.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LOGAN acknowledged  that Representative  Claman made  a good                                                               
point  that was  not considered  in  the original  drafting.   He                                                               
noted that  under HB  32, walking anywhere  in the  campground or                                                               
slipping on  a wet surface  or a root that  sticks out on  a path                                                               
would be included in the inherent risk of camping.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:25:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:26:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN opined that these  are insurable risks.  He                                                               
pointed  out  that RV  park  operators  who  take care  of  their                                                               
facilities are the  ones with few claims and lower  premiums.  He                                                               
said  there  are many  RV  parks  with different  conditions  and                                                               
questioned  "[getting]  into  the  business" of  adding  a  gross                                                               
negligence  standard.   He recognized  that with  respect to  ski                                                               
area liability, the  distinction between the parking  lot and the                                                               
mountain  is  important, later  adding  that  with very  few  ski                                                               
areas, once people get to the top  of the mountain they go out of                                                               
bounds  and do  many  things  that, despite  all  the effort,  is                                                               
difficult to control  and hard to insure against.   He noted that                                                               
in 1994,  the ski  industry was successful  in passing  a statute                                                               
that  addressed those  issues.   He expressed  his concern  about                                                               
lowering the  standard of liability  from a  negligence liability                                                               
to a gross  negligence liability when there  are many conditions,                                                               
both manmade  and man-controlled, such  as potholes, which  are a                                                               
risk.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:28:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  VANCE suggested  including a  distinction between                                                               
manmade  construction and  natural habitat  in an  RV park.   She                                                               
asked if that would be a reasonable solution.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN  opined that it's complicated.   He posited                                                               
that  the largest  RV park  in Alaska  is five  acres, indicating                                                               
that monitoring  and controlling  the conditions would  be vastly                                                               
different than controlling the conditions  on a thousand-acre ski                                                               
area.  He  acknowledged that there are issues, such  as trees and                                                               
roots, that  someone could  trip over depending  on how  they are                                                               
maintained;   however,   those   are  things   that   ultimately,                                                               
campground  owners have  some control  over, particularly  within                                                               
the  boundaries of  land that  they  manage.   He explained  that                                                               
those are  classically insurable  risks in  the list  of lawsuits                                                               
provided by the sponsor.  He  noted, for example, that Fred Meyer                                                               
is insured against the risk of  slip and falls.  He expressed his                                                               
concern  about  campgrounds   receiving  substantially  different                                                               
treatment  than  other commercial  operators.    He continued  by                                                               
acknowledging that in  his legal career, he  has represented both                                                               
the defendant  and the plaintiff  in slip and falls,  adding that                                                               
they are tough cases to win and usually, easier cases to defend.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:31:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  recalled working on a  similar provision for                                                               
farm   tours,  which   involved  extensive   conversations  about                                                               
negligence  versus  gross  negligence.   She  advised  exercising                                                               
caution with regard to setting a legal standard.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:32:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked  if there was a  particular event or                                                               
incident that  highlighted this particular  area of  lawsuits and                                                               
tort reform.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOGAN said it was by  request of a constituent in District 9.                                                               
He explained  that the overall  economic impact was  so positive,                                                               
which compelled  [the bill sponsor]  to try to ensure  that those                                                               
operations  could continue  to benefit  the  tourism industry  in                                                               
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS  noted that  the supporting  document, which                                                               
listed inherent  risk lawsuits,  are all  national examples.   He                                                               
said it  would be helpful  to provide real and  concrete examples                                                               
for additional context.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:33:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  STORY asked  if  providing civil  immunity in  RV                                                               
parks is a common practice in other states.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.   LOGAN  replied   several   states   have  enacted   similar                                                               
legislation.   He added that  much of the drafting  language came                                                               
from a national organization's public  advocacy body.  He offered                                                               
to provide a list of the requested information.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:33:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS announced that HB 32 was held over.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:34:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS provided closing remarks.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:34:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
State Affairs Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 4:34                                                                  
p.m.                                                                                                                            

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB 32 Sponsor Statement 2.19.2021.pdf HSTA 2/23/2021 3:00:00 PM
HB 32
HB 32 Testimony Received as of 2.22.2021.pdf HSTA 2/23/2021 3:00:00 PM
HB 32
HB 3 Sponsor Statement 2.18.2021.pdf HJUD 3/10/2021 1:30:00 PM
HJUD 3/15/2021 1:30:00 PM
HJUD 3/17/2021 1:30:00 PM
HSTA 2/23/2021 3:00:00 PM
HB 3
HB 3 Supporting Document - Alaska Health Department Reports Data Breach The Seattle Times 6.28.2018.pdf HJUD 3/10/2021 1:30:00 PM
HJUD 3/15/2021 1:30:00 PM
HJUD 3/17/2021 1:30:00 PM
HSTA 2/23/2021 3:00:00 PM
HB 3
HB 3 Supporting Document - DHSS Cyber Attack Impacts More Than 100,000 Alaska Households 1.23.2019.pdf HJUD 3/10/2021 1:30:00 PM
HJUD 3/15/2021 1:30:00 PM
HJUD 3/17/2021 1:30:00 PM
HSTA 2/23/2021 3:00:00 PM
HB 3
HB 3 Supporting Document - How One Alaskan Borough Survived A Cyber Attack CitiesSpeak 10.1.2019.pdf HJUD 3/10/2021 1:30:00 PM
HJUD 3/15/2021 1:30:00 PM
HJUD 3/17/2021 1:30:00 PM
HSTA 2/23/2021 3:00:00 PM
HB 3
HB 3 Supporting Document - MSBD Press Release Mat-Su Declares Disaster for Cyber Attack 7.31.2018.pdf HJUD 3/10/2021 1:30:00 PM
HJUD 3/15/2021 1:30:00 PM
HJUD 3/17/2021 1:30:00 PM
HSTA 2/23/2021 3:00:00 PM
HB 3
HB 3 Supporting Document - Pipeline Article Alaska Public Media 3.14.2018.pdf HJUD 3/10/2021 1:30:00 PM
HJUD 3/15/2021 1:30:00 PM
HJUD 3/17/2021 1:30:00 PM
HSTA 2/23/2021 3:00:00 PM
HB 3
HB 3 Legal Memo 2.10.2020.pdf HJUD 3/10/2021 1:30:00 PM
HJUD 3/15/2021 1:30:00 PM
HJUD 3/17/2021 1:30:00 PM
HSTA 2/23/2021 3:00:00 PM
HB 3
HB 3 Supporting Document - CISA Critical Infrastructure 2.23.2021.pdf HJUD 3/10/2021 1:30:00 PM
HJUD 3/15/2021 1:30:00 PM
HJUD 3/17/2021 1:30:00 PM
HSTA 2/23/2021 3:00:00 PM
HB 3
HB 3 Testimony - Received as of 2.22.2021.pdf HJUD 3/10/2021 1:30:00 PM
HJUD 3/15/2021 1:30:00 PM
HJUD 3/17/2021 1:30:00 PM
HSTA 2/23/2021 3:00:00 PM
HB 3
HB 32 Testimony Received as of 2.22.21 Additional - Chicken Gold Camp.pdf HSTA 2/23/2021 3:00:00 PM
HB 32
HB 32 FN LAW CIV TWC 2.9.21.pdf HSTA 2/23/2021 3:00:00 PM
HB 32
HB 3 Fiscal Note DOA-OIT 2.21.2021 (Printed 2.22.2021).pdf HSTA 2/23/2021 3:00:00 PM
HB 3
HB 32 Letters in Support 2.23.2021.pdf HSTA 2/23/2021 3:00:00 PM
HB 32
HB 32 Research Alaska Annual Ecomoic Impact Fact Sheet.pdf HSTA 2/23/2021 3:00:00 PM
HB 32
HB 32 Research Alaska State Economic Impact Table.pdf HSTA 2/23/2021 3:00:00 PM
HB 32
HB 32 Reseach Examples of Inherent Risk Lawsuits.pdf HSTA 2/23/2021 3:00:00 PM
HB 32