Legislature(2019 - 2020)GRUENBERG 120

03/21/2019 03:00 PM STATE AFFAIRS

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Presentation: TBA TELECONFERENCED
+= HCR 4 UNIFORM RULES: COMMITTEE ON COMMITTEES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
+= HB 20 SEXUAL ASSAULT EXAMINATION KITS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
             HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                           
                         March 21, 2019                                                                                         
                           3:04 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Zack Fields, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins, Co-Chair                                                                                
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux                                                                                                 
Representative Andi Story                                                                                                       
Representative Adam Wool                                                                                                        
Representative Sarah Vance                                                                                                      
Representative Laddie Shaw                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 20                                                                                        
"An Act relating  to sexual assault; relating  to the definitions                                                               
of  'without  consent'  and 'consent';  relating  to  failure  to                                                               
report a violent  crime; relating to sexual  misconduct under the                                                               
code of  military justice; requiring law  enforcement agencies to                                                               
test sexual  assault examination kits; requiring  notification of                                                               
completion  of testing;  relating to  reports on  untested sexual                                                               
assault examination kits; and providing for an effective date."                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 4                                                                                               
Proposing an amendment  to the Uniform Rules of  the Alaska State                                                               
Legislature  relating  to  the membership  of  the  Committee  on                                                               
Committees.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB  20                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: SEXUAL ASSAULT EXAMINATION KITS                                                                                    
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) TARR                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
02/20/19       (H)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/7/19                                                                                
02/20/19       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/20/19       (H)       STA, FIN                                                                                               
03/11/19       (H)       SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED                                                                          
03/11/19       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/11/19       (H)       STA, FIN                                                                                               
03/12/19       (H)       STA AT 3:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
03/12/19       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/12/19       (H)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
03/14/19       (H)       STA AT 3:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
03/14/19       (H)       <Bill Hearing Canceled>                                                                                
03/21/19       (H)       STA AT 3:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HCR  4                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: UNIFORM RULES: COMMITTEE ON COMMITTEES                                                                             
SPONSOR(s): STATE AFFAIRS                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
03/15/19       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/15/19       (H)       STA, JUD                                                                                               
03/19/19       (H)       STA AT 3:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
03/19/19       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/19/19       (H)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
03/21/19       (H)       STA AT 3:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE GERAN TARR                                                                                                       
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented the committee substitute (CS) for                                                              
SSHB 20, Version G, as prime sponsor, with the use of a                                                                         
PowerPoint presentation.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
DAVID KANARIS, Assistant Chief                                                                                                  
Alaska Scientific Crime Detection Lab                                                                                           
Department of Public Safety (DPS)                                                                                               
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions during the hearing on                                                                 
SSHB 20, Version G.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:04:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  ZACK FIELDS  called the  House  State Affairs  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting to order at  3:04 p.m.  Representatives LeDoux,                                                               
Story,  Wool,  Vance,  Shaw,   Kreiss-Tomkins,  and  Fields  were                                                               
present at the call to order.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
             HB 20-SEXUAL ASSAULT EXAMINATION KITS                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:05:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FIELDS announced that the  first order of business would                                                               
be SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL  NO. 20, "An Act relating to                                                               
sexual assault; relating to the  definitions of 'without consent'                                                               
and 'consent';  relating to  failure to  report a  violent crime;                                                               
relating  to  sexual  misconduct   under  the  code  of  military                                                               
justice;  requiring  law  enforcement  agencies  to  test  sexual                                                               
assault  examination kits;  requiring notification  of completion                                                               
of  testing;  relating  to reports  on  untested  sexual  assault                                                               
examination kits; and providing for an effective date."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:05:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GERAN TARR,  Alaska State  Legislature, as  prime                                                               
sponsor  of  SSHB 20,  expressed  her  intention to  explain  the                                                               
changes put forth by the committee substitute (CS), Version G.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:06:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  KREISS-TOMKINS  moved to  adopt  the  CS for  SSHB  20,                                                               
Version 31-LS0253\G,  Radford, 3/21/19, as the  working document.                                                               
There being no objection, Version G was before the committee.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:06:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR began  with slides 3 and  4, entitled "Mental                                                               
State  in  Criminal Code,"  and  reminded  the committee  of  the                                                               
standard language used by the  drafter of the original version of                                                               
SSHB 20 - "should know or  should reasonably should know" - which                                                               
would  be  replaced  in  the  CS  with  language  that  was  more                                                               
consistent with existing statutes.   This language adheres to the                                                               
four phases of mental state as  it relates to criminal law, which                                                               
are  "intentionally,"  "knowingly,"  "recklessly,"  or  "criminal                                                               
negligence."   She stated that the  "reckless disregard" standard                                                               
has  been recommended  by  the  Department of  Law  (DOL) and  is                                                               
defined on slide 4 as follows:                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     (3)  a  person  acts  "recklessly" with  respect  to  a                                                                    
     result or  to a  circumstance described by  a provision                                                                    
     of law defining an offense  when the person is aware of                                                                    
     and   consciously   disregards    a   substantial   and                                                                    
     unjustifiable risk  that the result will  occur or that                                                                    
     the circumstance  exists; the  risk must  be of  such a                                                                    
     nature and  degree that disregard  of it  constitutes a                                                                    
     gross  deviation from  the standard  of conduct  that a                                                                    
     reasonable  person would  observe in  the situation;  a                                                                    
     person who  is unaware  of a risk  of which  the person                                                                    
     would  have  been  aware  had   that  person  not  been                                                                    
     intoxicated acts recklessly with respect to that risk;                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR  turned  to  slides  5-7  and  relayed  that                                                               
Version  G   replaces  "or  reasonably  should   know"  with  "or                                                               
recklessly disregards" in Sections 1-3  to be consistent with the                                                               
standards that are currently used in criminal law.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:09:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR related  that  Sections  4-7, which  address                                                               
"consent," have been  set aside for further  consideration of the                                                               
definition of consent.   She explained that  the implications are                                                               
far-reaching; they  represent a  cultural shift;  and significant                                                               
work has  been accomplished in  the last few years  in connection                                                               
with the  Me Too movement  [a movement against  sexual harassment                                                               
and sexual assault].   She reminded the  committee that currently                                                               
"consent" is  defined in terms  of "without consent"  rather than                                                               
in the affirmative  - "giving consent."  She said  that more time                                                               
is needed  to ensure that  the priorities of the  advocacy groups                                                               
are  considered, as  well as  model language  from other  states.                                                               
She  maintained   that  the  proposed  legislation   has  defined                                                               
"consent" as  overt actions that express  consent; however, there                                                               
are other aspects of the  definition that need further attention.                                                               
Examples  of  additional  definition  for  consideration  are  as                                                               
follows:  having  been previously engaged in  a relationship does                                                               
not imply  consent; consent may  be given  and taken away  in the                                                               
same  sexual  encounter;  physical  state  may  imply  physically                                                               
incapable of giving consent.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FIELDS expressed  his desire  for something  in writing                                                               
from  a  prosecutor  stating   that  the  "recklessly  disregard"                                                               
standard  would be  adequate to  prosecute someone  who raped  an                                                               
incapacitated person.   He suggested that  "recklessly disregard"                                                               
is  too  high of  a  standard.   He  offered  the  example of  an                                                               
inebriated person  who raped someone  who was incapacitated.   He                                                               
asked,   "Is  it   reckless  disregard   if   you  yourself   are                                                               
inebriated?"                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE expressed concern  with changing the wording                                                               
from  "who" to  "when"  so  that it  states,  "when the  offender                                                               
knows."  She  asked, "What if they say, 'Well,  I didn't know.'?"                                                               
She asked whether  that would automatically make the  crime not a                                                               
crime.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  responded that in redefining  sexual assault                                                               
in  the  second degree,  [AS  11.41.420(a)]  currently reads,  in                                                               
part, as follows:                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
      (a) An  offender commits the  crime of  sexual assault                                                                    
     in         the         second         degree         if                                                                    
          (1) the  offender engages  in sexual  contact with                                                                    
     another   person  without   consent  of   that  person;                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
       (2) the offender engages in sexual contact with a                                                                        
     person                                                                                                                     
             (A) who the offender knows is mentally                                                                             
     incapable;                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR,   in  response  to   Representative  Vance,                                                               
relayed that  under Version G,  no language would  be eliminated;                                                               
"who the offender knows is  mentally incapable" would be replaced                                                               
with "the offender knows or  recklessly disregards that the other                                                               
person is  mentally incapable".   Using this language  would more                                                               
clearly define  the circumstances in  which it would  be applied.                                                               
In response  to Representative Fields,  she said that one  of the                                                               
challenges  regarding  crimes   involving  two  individuals  with                                                               
competing stories  is that the standard  should not be so  low as                                                               
to allow  too much opportunity  to avoid prosecution, but  not so                                                               
high  that the  standard  cannot be  met.   She  agreed that  the                                                               
committee should hear testimony from DOL.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:15:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FIELDS suggested  that the original version  of SSHB 20,                                                               
updated  an  anachronistic   definition  of  "consent"  regarding                                                               
intercourse  with children.   He  asked,  "Why would  we not  ...                                                               
update that anachronistic language?"                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  answered that staff is  attempting to update                                                               
all  of the  sections, which  include  the failure  to report  [a                                                               
violent crime committed  against] a child, the  failure to report                                                               
[a violent crime  committed against] an adult,  the military code                                                               
of  justice,  and  the  overall   definition  of  consent.    She                                                               
maintained   that  updating   the  statutes   is  a   significant                                                               
undertaking; every word is important  in terms of its implication                                                               
and how it  is applied in a  courtroom; and the effort  will be a                                                               
significant accomplishment by the legislature.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR referred  to slide  8, entitled  "Section 4:                                                               
Sexual  Assault  Examination  Kits,"   and  discussed  the  three                                                               
requirements, shown on the slide as follows:                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
      1. That all sexual assault examination kits are sent                                                                      
     to the crime lab within 30 days of collection                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     2. That all sexual assault examination kits be tested                                                                      
     within one year                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     3. That victims be notified by law enforcement within                                                                      
      two weeks of receiving the results that the kit has                                                                       
     been tested                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR explained that  the only change under Version                                                               
G is the requirement that kits  be tested within one year instead                                                               
of six months.   She expressed her desire that  there be a 30-day                                                               
standard; it  is the best practice  to which states aspire.   She                                                               
mentioned that when her office  began this effort four years ago,                                                               
the  length of  time  for  the testing  of  kits  was 18  months;                                                               
currently the average is 10  months.  She maintained that meeting                                                               
a six-month timeline would require  additional staffing, which is                                                               
reflected  in the  fiscal note  (FN); it  would require  a policy                                                               
decision  and  support from  the  legislature  to add  these  new                                                               
positions.   She  relayed that  personnel at  Alaska's Scientific                                                               
Crime Detection  Laboratory ("crime  lab") [Department  of Public                                                               
Safety  (DPS)] indicated  that with  existing staffing,  they can                                                               
meet  the   one-year  testing  timeline.     She   asserted  that                                                               
shortening  the  timeline  for  testing  would  be  an  important                                                               
improvement  to  public  safety;   the  aggressive  timeline  was                                                               
intentional in order  to attach the corresponding  FN and address                                                               
the fundamental questions:   What means justice?  What is justice                                                               
for a victim? How long should a victim have to wait?                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FIELDS expressed  his viewpoint  that one  year is  too                                                               
long  [to  wait  for  a  sexual assault  examination  kit  to  be                                                               
tested]; he  would prefer the proposed  legislation stipulate six                                                               
months.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STORY  stated that she  also would like  a shorter                                                               
time frame,  and it  is important to  have the  information about                                                               
additional  cost  for  meeting   the  six-month  timeline.    She                                                               
maintained  that  it is  important  for  the  victim to  be  kept                                                               
abreast of the  progress regarding the processing of  the kit and                                                               
the timeline.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL stated that he  supports kits being tested as                                                               
soon and as quickly as  possible.  He maintained that legislators                                                               
do  not know  the  workload  of the  crime  lab personnel;  state                                                               
agency [budgets] have been cut for  many years.  He expressed his                                                               
belief that arbitrarily setting timelines is irresponsible.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE  relayed that  it is  exciting to  hear that                                                               
DPS  has  been  trying  to  expedite the  process  and  has  made                                                               
significant  improvements.    She  expressed  that  it  would  be                                                               
helpful to  know the  costs and demands  that the  timeline would                                                               
impose  on DPS;  however, this  issue is  just one  piece of  the                                                               
criminal justice system, and a  shorter timeframe does not ensure                                                               
that  the  other pieces  of  the  system would  automatically  be                                                               
expedited.    She said  that  she  supports being  provided  with                                                               
information on the whole picture  of what justice would look like                                                               
in  a sexual  assault case  to ensure  that funds  are not  being                                                               
taken  from one  piece and  injected into  another piece  without                                                               
improving the whole system.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FIELDS asked to hear  from crime lab personnel regarding                                                               
the feasibility of the six-month time period.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  interjected that the forthcoming  FN for the                                                               
six-month timeline would show a cost of $662,200.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:22:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVID   KANARIS,  Assistant   Chief,   Alaska  Scientific   Crime                                                               
Detection  Lab,  DPS,  relayed  that that  the  FN  reflects  the                                                               
addition  of four  positions, which  is the  estimated additional                                                               
staff  needed   to  meet  the   timeline  of  six  months.     He                                                               
acknowledged that six months is  a significant delay and his hope                                                               
is to shorten it eventually.  He  said that he wishes to create a                                                               
dedicated sexual  assault team  whose only  function would  be to                                                               
process the kits  as soon as possible; to do  that, the lab would                                                               
need  three  forensic  scientists   and  one  forensic  scientist                                                               
supervisor to handle all the  case management and associated case                                                               
information.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  relayed that in  the FN, the  four positions                                                               
would  cost  $453,200;  the  consumables  needed  to  process  an                                                               
additional 120  kits would  cost $122,000.   She stated  that she                                                               
supports  the  costs  associated  with  the  six-month  timeline:                                                               
however, if  the $662,000 is  not appropriated, then  the process                                                               
time would be one year.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR, in response  to Representative Vance, stated                                                               
that  due   to  budget   cuts,  DOL   was  short   27  positions;                                                               
consequently  about   7,000  sexual   assault  cases   were  left                                                               
unprosecuted  over a  two-year period.    She said  that at  that                                                               
time, DOL  prioritized homicides,  sexual assaults, and  abuse of                                                               
minors;  however, at  the same  time,  Anchorage had  a spike  in                                                               
homicides.   The reduction in  staffing and the increase  in more                                                               
difficult  cases for  prosecution resulted  in the  two-year time                                                               
frame.   She agreed with  Representative Vance that  other pieces                                                               
of  the system  have  an  impact.   She  offered  that five  more                                                               
prosecutors were added to staff last year.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR continued with slide  8 and drew attention to                                                               
the new  subsections (b)  and (c)  under Section  4 of  Version G                                                               
[page  4, lines  18-23].   She  read from  the  slide as  follows                                                               
[original punctuation provided]:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
        New: (b) criminal action can not be dismissed if                                                                        
     deadline not met                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     (c)If case is resolved before kit is tested, timeline                                                                      
     does not apply (plea deal)                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  explained that subsection (b)  would address                                                               
the  concern that  the  crime  lab or  a  law enforcement  agency                                                               
failing  to  meet a  deadline  might  impact a  case  negatively.                                                               
Under Version G,  this would not be allowed to  occur.  She added                                                               
that  subsection (c)  addresses the  possibility of  a plea  deal                                                               
occurring before a kit is tested.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:26:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  referred to slides  9 and 10,  which address                                                               
Section 5  and Section 6 of  Version G, and stated  that in these                                                               
two sections language  was added to require the reason  a kit was                                                               
not  tested  [to be  added  to  the  report  to DPS];  Section  5                                                               
involves  preparation  of  the report,  and  Section  6  involves                                                               
delivering the report to the legislature.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  turned to slide 11,  which addresses Section                                                               
7 of  Version G, to direct  attention to the actual  wording used                                                               
in the  Sexual Assault  Kit Initiative (SAKI)  reports for  why a                                                               
kit  was not  tested.   She maintained  that using  this language                                                               
would make  statutes consistent  with sexual  assault examination                                                               
kit reporting practices.  The language  was shown on slide 11, as                                                               
follows:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     A  sexual assault  examination  kit  is ineligible  for                                                                    
     testing  if   the  law  enforcement  agency   or  state                                                                    
     department  finds that  the sexual  assault examination                                                                    
     kit                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     (1) Is scientifically unviable                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
         (2) Does not meet eligibility requirements for                                                                         
      inclusion in the combined DNA Index System Database;                                                                      
     or                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
      (3) Was collected from a person who wishes to remain                                                                      
     anonymous                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  moved on to  slide 12, entitled  "Section 8:                                                               
Applicability,"   and   stated   that  under   Version   G,   the                                                               
applicability  of   the  proposed  legislation  would   apply  to                                                               
offenses committed  on or after  the effective date.   She turned                                                               
to slide  13, entitled "Section  13: Effective Date,"  and stated                                                               
that  under Version  G, the  effective date  would be  January 1,                                                               
2021, to allow ample time for implementation.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR,  to address Representative  Story's question                                                               
about victim notification, said that  staff struggled with how to                                                               
address this  issue.  She  mentioned software that  allows access                                                               
to  a sexual  assault  examination kit  database  using a  secure                                                               
login and  unique identifier to track  the kit.  She  stated that                                                               
the  software  costs $135,000  to  purchase  and maintaining  the                                                               
database costs  $80,000 per year.   She maintained  that tracking                                                               
becomes  less  important as  the  timeframe  is truncated.    She                                                               
offered that  with the  one-year timeline, set  by Version  G, it                                                               
becomes a question of where the  state wants to expend its funds.                                                               
She maintained that her preference is  to use funds to hire staff                                                               
in the  hope that  with more  timely processing,  notification of                                                               
victims becomes  less of  an issue.   She  suggested that  with a                                                               
two-year wait  for test results,  a victim, who  must continually                                                               
call and retell his/her story,  is re-traumatized.  She mentioned                                                               
that  Version G  would require  that law  enforcement notify  the                                                               
victim within two weeks.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:31:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  STORY expressed  that  it is  very important  for                                                               
victims to be informed timely.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FIELDS  stated that  SSHB 20, Version  G, would  be held                                                               
over.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
          HCR 4-UNIFORM RULES: COMMITTEE ON COMMITTEES                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:31:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FIELDS announced that the  final order of business would                                                               
be HOUSE CONCURRENT  RESOLUTION NO. 4, Proposing  an amendment to                                                               
the Uniform  Rules of  the Alaska  State Legislature  relating to                                                               
the membership of the Committee on Committees.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:32:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 3:32 p.m. to 3:34 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:33:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  VANCE moved  to adopt  Amendment 1,  [labeled 31-                                                               
LS0673\S.1, Wallace, 3/15/19], which read:                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 12, following "committee":                                                                                    
          Insert "and the Committee on Committees,"                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FIELDS objected for the purpose of discussion.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE relayed that she  supports the intent of HCR                                                               
4 to  make the Uniform  Rules conform with  legislative practices                                                               
and to allow for the appointment  of at least five members on the                                                               
Committee  on Committees,  but not  to exceed  25 percent  of the                                                               
total  house membership.    She stated  that  under the  proposed                                                               
amendment, the Committee  on Committees would be  entitled to the                                                               
number of seats  proportional to the number  of minority members,                                                               
like  the appointment  of members  of standing  committees.   She                                                               
offered  that such  a  proportional makeup  of  the Committee  on                                                               
Committees  would be  equitable.   She  said,  "Our democracy  is                                                               
designed to  protect the voice  of the minority."   She expressed                                                               
her  belief   that  legislative   conduct  should   reflect  that                                                               
principle.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:35:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS  stated that  he opposes Amendment  1 but                                                               
not because  he opposes the  sentiment behind the amendment.   He                                                               
explained  that HCR  4  was developed  in  consultation with  the                                                               
leaderships of the  House and Senate; it  offers an intentionally                                                               
narrow and prescriptive approach.   He maintained that because of                                                               
the  alignment of  the leadership  of  both bodies  to draft  the                                                               
resolution, he is hesitant to  make any additional changes to the                                                               
Uniform  Rules than  what was  discussed.   He  offered that  the                                                               
Committee  on  Committees is  a  "different  animal"; it  has  no                                                               
policy-making power;  it is entirely  appointed by  the presiding                                                               
officer  - the  President of  the Senate  or the  Speaker of  the                                                               
House; and  there is effectively  no deliberation that  occurs in                                                               
the Committee  on Committees.   He mentioned that  he understands                                                               
on a  symbolic level the  importance of  minority representation.                                                               
He  said it  is  worth noting  that the  minority  leader of  the                                                               
Senate has a  seat on the Senate Committee on  Committee; that is                                                               
not  true for  the  House.   He  reiterated  that a  proportional                                                               
representation  on  the  Committee   on  Committees  would  be  a                                                               
symbolic gesture and one to which he is sympathetic.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:38:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL asked for  confirmation of his understanding:                                                               
by statute, the  Committee on Committees in the House  is to have                                                               
five  members; currently  it has  seven; the  proposed resolution                                                               
would specify at  least five members; if seven, all  seven can be                                                               
from the majority;  and the Senate allows one  minority member to                                                               
serve on its Committee on Committees.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  KREISS-TOMKINS replied,  "That is  correct."   He added                                                               
that  the   presiding  officer  appoints  the   entirety  of  the                                                               
Committee on Committees.   The President of  the Senate appointed                                                               
the Senate minority leader to the Committee on Committees.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WOOL  asked for  the  number  of members  on  the                                                               
Senate Committee on Committees.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS answered, "There  are five members on the                                                               
Senate Committee on Committees."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FIELDS relayed that he  supports the amendment and would                                                               
consider it as a separate Uniform Rules change.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX   commented  that  she   thought  [former]                                                               
Representative  [Charisse]  Millet  served on  the  Committee  on                                                               
Committees last year [2018].                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS stated that  he thought that was correct.                                                               
He offered that  he would be willing to  work with Representative                                                               
Vance to  gage the  support of the  House and  Senate leaderships                                                               
for her  proposed rules  change; if there  is alignment  from the                                                               
leadership of both bodies, he would support it.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  VANCE suggested  that offering  amendments to  be                                                               
heard in  committee, in  fact, is the  process for  getting input                                                               
from the  legislative bodies.   She  relayed that  she approached                                                               
legislators  with more  seniority and  the Speaker  of the  House                                                               
about this  issue.   She expressed that  her reason  for offering                                                               
the amendment is  that when passing legislation  or adjusting the                                                               
Uniform  Rules,  legislators  should  not think  just  about  the                                                               
current  situation, but  about the  future; circumstances  change                                                               
and leaders  change; it  is an  opportunity to  make improvements                                                               
now, not later.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  expressed her belief that  every committee                                                               
member  in House  State Affairs  Standing Committee  supports the                                                               
amendment;  therefore,  they  would  not  want  to  hold  up  the                                                               
resolution.     She  suggested  that   the  committee   pass  the                                                               
amendment,  discuss it  with the  leadership,  and if  it is  not                                                               
supported, it can be changed in  the next committee of referral -                                                               
the House Judiciary Standing Committee.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  KREISS-TOMKINS offered  that Representative  LeDoux has                                                               
made a good point.  He said  that his preference would be to have                                                               
the  conversations  with  leadership  first  before  passing  the                                                               
amendment, although either  order would work.   He mentioned that                                                               
there is no  rush to pass the resolution; it  is a "housekeeping"                                                               
measure.     He  offered  to   approach  the  House   and  Senate                                                               
leaderships about amenability to  incorporate the amendment [into                                                               
the resolution].   In response  to Co-Chair Fields,  he confirmed                                                               
his desire to hold over the resolution.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:44:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL  relayed that  he supports that  decision; he                                                               
does not  like to pass on  resolutions to be "fixed"  in the next                                                               
committee; and  the resolution could  fail due to  the amendment.                                                               
He stated  that he remembers  the Committee on  Committees having                                                               
minority members in the past -  possibly as a courtesy; it is not                                                               
a policy committee, but a  committee to facilitate the Speaker in                                                               
appointing  committees.   He speculated  that  the committee  had                                                               
changed from five to seven members to add two minority members.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SHAW suggested voting on  the amendment so that it                                                               
would be considered in the next committee.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FIELDS clarified  that Representative Kreiss-Tomkins has                                                               
suggested that the resolution not  be reported from the committee                                                               
to give  him time to discuss  it with leadership.   He maintained                                                               
that  he  supports   the  amendment,  if  it   doesn't  stop  the                                                               
resolution  from going  forward.   He asked  Representative Vance                                                               
whether she  supports holding the resolution  over and discussing                                                               
it with leadership.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  VANCE  concurred with  that  plan  of action  and                                                               
stated that  if leadership  does not  support the  amendment, she                                                               
would withdraw the amendment.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:48:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FIELDS  opened  public  testimony  on  HCR  4.    After                                                               
ascertaining  that no  one wished  to testify,  he closed  public                                                               
testimony.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FIELDS stated that HCR 4 would be held over.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:48:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
State Affairs  Standing Committee  meeting was adjourned  at 3:48                                                               
p.m.                                                                                                                            

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB0020 Sponsor Statement 3.21.19 Version G.pdf HSTA 3/21/2019 3:00:00 PM
HSTA 4/18/2019 3:00:00 PM
HB 20
HB0020 Sectional Analysis 03.21.19 Version G.pdf HSTA 3/21/2019 3:00:00 PM
HSTA 4/18/2019 3:00:00 PM
HB 20
HB0020 Ver G 3.21.19.pdf HSTA 3/21/2019 3:00:00 PM
HSTA 4/18/2019 3:00:00 PM
HB 20
HB0020 Summary of Changes Version S to G 3.21.19.pdf HSTA 3/21/2019 3:00:00 PM
HSTA 4/18/2019 3:00:00 PM
HB 20
HB0020 State Affairs PresentationVersion G.pdf HSTA 3/21/2019 3:00:00 PM
HSTA 4/18/2019 3:00:00 PM
HB 20