Legislature(1997 - 1998)

04/26/1997 10:10 AM STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
             HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                            
                         April 26, 1997                                        
                           10:10 a.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Jeannette James, Chair                                         
 Representative Ethan Berkowitz                                                
 Representative Fred Dyson                                                     
 Representative Kim Elton                                                      
 Representative Ivan Ivan                                                      
 Representative Al Vezey                                                       
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
                                                                               
 Representative Mark Hodgins                                                   
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL NO. 47                                                             
 "An Act relating to authorizing the Department of Corrections to              
 provide an automated victim notification and prisoner information             
 system."                                                                      
                                                                               
      - MOVED HB 47 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                           
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL NO. 48                                                             
 "An Act making a special appropriation for an automated victim                
 notification system; and providing for an effective date."                    
                                                                               
      - HEARD AND HELD                                                         
                                                                               
 * HOUSE BILL NO. 264                                                          
 "An Act providing for a negotiated regulation making process; and             
 providing for an effective date."                                             
                                                                               
      - HEARD AND HELD                                                         
                                                                               
 SENATE BILL NO. 141                                                           
 "An Act relating to permits to carry concealed handguns; and                  
 relating to the possession of firearms."                                      
                                                                               
      - BILL CANCELLED (NOT YET PASSED BY SENATE)                              
                                                                               
 (* First public hearing)                                                      
                                                                               
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB  47                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: TELEPHONE VICTIM NOTIFICATION SYSTEM                             
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KEMPLEN, Kubina, Croft, Dyson,                  
 Kohring, Brice                                                                
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG             ACTION                                       
 01/13/97        40    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED 1/3/97                           
 01/13/97        40    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/13/97        40    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                 
 03/10/97       617    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): KUBINA                              
 03/26/97       862    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): CROFT                               
 04/03/97       978    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): DYSON                               
 04/24/97              (H)   STA AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                       
 04/24/97      1331    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): KOHRING                             
 04/25/97      1347    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): BRICE                               
 04/26/97              (H)   STA AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 102                       
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB  48                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: APPROP: VICTIM NOTIFICATION SYSTEM                               
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KEMPLEN, Kubina, Croft, Dyson, Brice            
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG             ACTION                                       
 01/13/97        40    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED 1/3/97                           
 01/13/97        40    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/13/97        40    (H)   STA, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                           
 03/10/97       617    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): KUBINA                              
 03/26/97       863    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): CROFT                               
 04/03/97       978    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): DYSON                               
 04/24/97              (H)   STA AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                       
 04/24/97              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                       
 04/25/97      1348    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): BRICE                               
 04/26/97              (H)   STA AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 102                       
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 264                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: NEGOTIATED REGULATION MAKING                                     
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) JAMES, Berkowitz                                
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG             ACTION                                       
 04/25/97      1343    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 04/25/97      1343    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE                            
 04/26/97              (H)   STA AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 102                       
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 LAUREE HUGONIN, Executive Director                                            
 Alaska Network on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault                        
 130 Seward, Room 501                                                          
 Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 586-3650                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided testimony in support of HB 47 and 48.           
                                                                               
 JAYNE ANDREEN, Executive Director                                             
 Council on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault                               
 Department of Public Safety                                                   
 P.O. Box 111200                                                               
 Juneau, Alaska 99811-1200                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4356                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided testimony in support of HB 47 and 48.           
                                                                               
 CARLA TIMPONE, Lobbyist                                                       
 Alaska Women's Lobby; and                                                     
 Co-Chair                                                                      
 AWARE Shelter                                                                 
 211 4th Street, Suite 108                                                     
 Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 463-6744                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided testimony in support of HB 47 and 48.           
                                                                               
 ROBERT COLE, Director                                                         
 Division of Administrative Services                                           
 Department of Corrections                                                     
 P.O. Box 112000                                                               
 Juneau, Alaska 99811-2000                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3342                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided testimony in support of HB 47 and 48.           
                                                                               
 DEBORAH BEHR, Assistant Attorney General                                      
 Legislation and Regulations Section                                           
 Department of Law                                                             
 P.O. Box 110300                                                               
 Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3600                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided testimony on HB 47, 48, and 264.                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ALLEN J. KEMPLEN                                               
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 State Capitol, Room  112                                                      
 Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 465-2435                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of HB 47 and HB 48.                              
                                                                               
 WALTER WILCOX, Legislative Assistant                                          
    to Representative Jeannette James                                          
 State Capitol, Room 102                                                       
 Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3743                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided sponsor statement on HB 264.                    
                                                                               
 ROBERT HUNTINGTON KNIGHT, Jr.                                                 
 Address not provided                                                          
 Telephone:  not provided                                                      
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided testimony on HB 264.                            
                                                                               
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-51, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 0001                                                                   
                                                                               
 The House State Affairs Standing Committee was called to order by             
 Chair Jeannette James at 10:10 a.m.  Members present at the call to           
 order were Representatives James, Dyson, Elton, and Vezey.  Members           
 absent were Berkowitz, Hodgins and Ivan.  Representative Ivan                 
 arrived at 10:11 a.m.; and Berkowitz at 10:13 a.m.                            
                                                                               
 HB 47 - TELEPHONE VICTIM NOTIFICATION SYSTEM                                
 HB 48 - APPROP: VICTIM NOTIFICATION SYSTEM                                  
                                                                               
 The first order of business to come before the House State Affairs            
 Standing Committee was HB 47, "An Act relating to authorizing the             
 Department of Corrections to provide an automated victim                      
 notification and prisoner information system," and HB 48, "An Act             
 making a special appropriation for an automated victim notification           
 system; and providing for an effective date."                                 
                                                                               
 Number 0079                                                                   
                                                                               
 LAUREE HUGONIN, Executive Director, Alaska Network on Domestic                
 Violence and Sexual Assault, was the first person to testify in               
 Juneau.  Her testimony today was in support of HB 47 and HB 48.               
 It was especially critical for victims of domestic violence to be             
 notified as soon as possible when there was a change in an                    
 offender's status, particularly if the offender was being released.           
 The victim would then have the best chance possible to get herself            
 to a safe space.  The domestic violence and victim protection act             
 added five responsibilities to the Department of Corrections when             
 to notify victims.  Three were in regards to parole hearings; and             
 two were in regards to pre-release furloughs.  In addition, there             
 had been difficulty in notifying victims when action had taken                
 place over the weekend by corrections when the prosecutorial agency           
 was not at work.  Therefore, an automated system would help in all            
 regards of notifying the victim.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 0239                                                                   
                                                                               
 JAYNE ANDREEN, Executive Director, Council on Domestic Violence and           
 Sexual Assault, Department of Public Safety, was the next person to           
 testify in Juneau.  Her testimony today was in support of HB 47 and           
 HB 48 for both the council and the Department of Public Safety.               
 There had been an increased statutory mandate for corrections to              
 notify victims over the years for safety and peace of mind.                   
 Corrections was having difficulty notifying victims after they                
 relocated.  Therefore, the council had put the word out to the                
 various victims' agencies to remind them to notify corrections of             
 their new location.  The VINE system was a 24-hour system so                  
 victims could call to determine the status of their offenders                 
 relieving anxiety.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 0406                                                                   
                                                                               
 CARLA TIMPONE, Lobbyist, Alaska Women's Lobby; and, Co-Chair, AWARE           
 Shelter, was the next person to testify in Juneau.  Her testimony             
 today was in support of HB 47 and HB 48 for both the lobby and the            
 shelter.  She explained two cases in Juneau whereby one woman was             
 notified on the street by a friend that her perpetrator had been              
 released, and the other woman found out by calling the prison                 
 herself only to learn after the fact that her perpetrator had been            
 released.  In Juneau, she explained, the Department of Corrections            
 notified the district attorney's office by paper of a change in               
 status.  The district attorney's office then notified the victim.             
 There were a lot of victims and perpetrators so it was almost                 
 impossible to keep up with the system.  An automated system would             
 be greatly supported.                                                         
                                                                               
 ROBERT COLE, Director, Division of Administrative Services,                   
 Department of Corrections, was the next person to testify in                  
 Juneau.  He was here to answer any questions.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 0543                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON stated he was concerned that the VINE               
 system would not be updated quick enough by corrections.  He asked            
 Mr. Cole how it would work?                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 0588                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied there was a legitimate concern about the flow of             
 information between the courts, the prosecutors, and the Department           
 of Corrections; and then from the Department of Corrections back to           
 the prosecutors.  The answer was automation.  At present,                     
 corrections was not able to talk directly to the court system via             
 E-mail or any other means electronically.  The court system was               
 working on receiving E-mail.  Corrections was automated last year             
 by using funds carried forward the previous year which meant it               
 could talk to everybody but the courts.  In addition, the                     
 Department of Corrections was responsible for facilities such as              
 the Cook Inlet Pre-Trial in Anchorage where there was a high volume           
 of status changes which was made more complicated by the fact that            
 there was no automated communication between corrections and the              
 courts.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 0946                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Mr. Cole if the VINE system would start            
 to solve the problems of the Department of Corrections?                       
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied, "Correct."                                                  
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Mr. Cole when someone's time was up was            
 an entry made in a computer or was a piece of paper signed?                   
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied both.  If the victim was registered with the                 
 Department of Corrections, he or she would receive a notification             
 via paper with the release and disposition status.                            
                                                                               
 Number 1031                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Mr. Cole how he would make sure that the           
 information on the paper was entered into the computer                        
 concurrently?                                                                 
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied there were record officers that were charged with            
 the responsibility of entering the data.  An audit was being                  
 conducted right now on the current system to determine if the                 
 necessary information was being contained.  The preliminary                   
 information from the auditor indicated that information was missing           
 rather than inaccurate.  The missing information was a result of              
 the traffic in the high volume institutions.  For example, a person           
 was either moved or released from the courts before corrections was           
 notified.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1106                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Mr. Cole if he just said that                      
 corrections turned people loose without information from the                  
 courts?                                                                       
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied, "No."                                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Mr. Cole who decided to turn somebody              
 loose?                                                                        
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied the supervising superintendent made the final                
 decision.                                                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Mr. Cole if the supervising                        
 superintendent signed a piece of paper?                                       
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied he did not know if the superintendent, the time              
 accounting officer, or the record officer actually signed the piece           
 of paper.                                                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Mr. Cole at what point did it trigger              
 the VINE system?  Who did the automatic notification?                         
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied the VINE system reached into the current computer            
 system and extracted status change data then automatically notified           
 the registered victims.                                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Mr. Cole who typed the information into            
 the computer?                                                                 
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied the record officers.                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Mr. Cole who told the record officers?             
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied there was a system in place to examine the paper             
 records to calculate the time and release date.                               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Mr. Cole when would the VINE system be             
 notified of a release?                                                        
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied it would be done at the time the decision was made           
 to release the prisoner.                                                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON stated, for clarification, at the same time a            
 decision was made an entry would be made into the computer.                   
                                                                               
 MR. COLE stated it would have to work something like that or there            
 would not be a timely update to the VINE system.                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON stated he was concerned that the piece of                
 paper would sit around for some time before getting to the clerk.             
 Why not eliminate the paper work by having the decision maker enter           
 the change in the computer? he asked.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1287                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. COLE stated next year the department would propose to amend the           
 previous statutes of notification because the VINE system would not           
 free the workers from sending a paper notification to the victim as           
 well.  It was not an issue during a transitional year, however.  It           
 would be more efficient to do the whole system electronically.                
                                                                               
 Number 1317                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. COLE further stated that the multi-purpose facilities                     
 throughout the state handled many different types of inmates.  The            
 VINE system could help sort out the different types of inmates as             
 well.                                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1358                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JEANNETTE JAMES asked Mr. Cole if he could pull up the status           
 of an inmate with the current system?                                         
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied, "Yes."                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1381                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES stated, for clarification, that the VINE system would             
 reach into the current system and update itself.                              
 MR. COLE stated only status changes would be looked at by the VINE            
 system - transfers, releases, court dates, paroles and probations.            
                                                                               
 Number 1447                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ETHAN BERKOWITZ stated that the VINE system would              
 benefit prosecutors as well as the Department of Corrections,                 
 because the victim-witness coordinators were not always in the                
 loop.                                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1463                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked if the VINE system would receive information from           
 other sources?                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1475                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied the fiscal note was just for the Department of               
 Corrections.  In order to add the court system and the                        
 prosecutorial system, for example, it would cost more money and               
 take more time.  He reiterated there was no way - presently - to              
 talk electronically with the court system.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1516                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked Mr. Cole if there was an item in the budget to              
 get that done this year?                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1523                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied it was not in the budget of the Department of                
 Corrections.  Our part was done.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 1541                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY commented the department already had the              
 capability to do this if it had the resources and the will.                   
 Therefore, we should concentrate on putting resources into the                
 transitional phase to implement the victims' rights legislation               
 passed last year.  We were making a mistake to try to codify how it           
 should be implemented.  In addition, the department would probably            
 prefer to divert the function of victim notification to the private           
 sector; it was not part of its core functions and responsibilities.           
                                                                               
 Number 1674                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Mr. Cole if the VINE system was a                  
 private contractor?                                                           
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied, "Yes."                                                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Mr. Cole if the VINE company would be              
 managing the data base?                                                       
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied the VINE company would be managing the                       
 notification system, not the data base.                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Mr. Cole if the state would purchase the           
 software?                                                                     
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied and management.                                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Mr. Cole if the VINE company would be              
 doing a portion of the work after being set up with the state                 
 system?                                                                       
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied, "Yes."                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1704                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES stated the bill called for a request for proposal (RFP)           
 when the VINE Company was the only one that provided this type of             
 service.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1764                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON agreed that the Department of Corrections did            
 not need legislation to enter into a contract to expand its system            
 to notify victims.  However, money was necessary.  He considered it           
 one of the higher priorities this session.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1789                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked Mr. Cole to address the issue of liability due to           
 errors.                                                                       
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied corrections would be liable if the information was           
 not entered timely or correctly.  The courts would be liable if it            
 did not notify corrections of a status change in a timely fashion.            
 According to an audit of the victim notification system, 99.56                
 percent of all victims were notified timely.                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1846                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked Mr. Cole if the estimated revenues shown in the             
 new fiscal note for HB 47 would come through the VINE system?                 
                                                                               
 Number 1874                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied the jail link component of the VINE system was a             
 1-900 phone number to inquire about the status of an inmate.                  
 Presently, the department received about 600 calls like that per              
 day.  Therefore, $1.25 per phone call equaled about $250,000.  The            
 department did not know if the volume would remain at 600 after               
 imposing a charge, however.  The department believed it would cost            
 about $93,000 per year to continue the VINE system which could be             
 recouped through the jail link component and program receipts.                
                                                                               
 Number 1939                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked Mr. Cole about the federal funds available.                 
                                                                               
 Number 1944                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied he knew there had been VINE applications                     
 throughout the country financed by federal grants.  There were                
 federal grant pockets used for the VINE system.  The state of                 
 Alaska should be just as eligible as any other entity in the                  
 country.  Existing grant funds could be gone and used already this            
 year.  Therefore, we should attempt to use the funds in the new               
 federal fiscal year.                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 1984                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ announced he had an amendment to HB 48 to            
 reflect the new fiscal note.                                                  
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES explained the committee would deal with HB 47 first to            
 determine if we need HB 48.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 2006                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON stated on the contrary we should not do                  
 anything with HB 47 because the department did not need legal                 
 authority to do this.                                                         
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied that was the type of discussion we needed to              
 have now.                                                                     
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked Mr. Cole if he would be the party primarily                 
 involved in implementing the VINE system?                                     
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied, "Yes."                                                      
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked Mr. Cole, if he had the money, did he already               
 have the authority to do what HB 47 said?                                     
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied he did have the authority.  It was important for             
 the legislature to make a statement and this was not a bad                    
 statement to make.  It said as a matter of policy that the                    
 legislature was concerned about victims' rights.                              
                                                                               
 Number 2074                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked Mr. Cole, if the department received an            
 appropriation to implement a victim notification system, would it             
 be the intent of the department to carry it out?                              
                                                                               
 Number 2094                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied, "Yes."  We would take it to heart and try to get            
 it done.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 2101                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked Mr. Cole, if the system was expanded to connect             
 to the courts; for example, who would be the authorizing agency -             
 the courts, Department of Law, or Department of Public Safety?                
                                                                               
 Number 2131                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. COLE replied there was a Criminal Justice Information System              
 Advisory Board that worked on the information problems that existed           
 between all of the law enforcement and judicial agencies.                     
 Therefore, all the entities would be working together to try to               
 make it work.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 2127                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ moved to adopt Amendment 1.  There was no            
 objection, Amendment 1 was so adopted.                                        
                                                                               
 Number 2185                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Chair James, if given the time left in             
 the session, would it be possible to get the money to the                     
 conference committee in the next 7 to 10 days for HB 47?  He did              
 not want the appropriation aspect of the bill delayed at all.                 
                                                                               
 Number 2214                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied the House State Affairs Standing Committee had            
 thoroughly reviewed the bills.  She would like that the next                  
 committee of referral to look at both bills as well.  Or, if the              
 committee members wished we could just move HB 47 to the next                 
 committee of referral.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 2251                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON moved that HB 47; and HB 48, as amended, move            
 from the committee with individual recommendations and the attached           
 fiscal note(s).                                                               
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES objected.  The fiscal note was for HB 47, not HB 48.              
 House Bill 47 with a fiscal note would have the same effect as HB
 48 as an appropriation bill.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 2293                                                                   
                                                                               
 DEBORAH BEHR, Assistant Attorney General, Legislation and                     
 Regulations Section, Department of Law, was the next person to                
 testify in Juneau.  A fiscal note attached to a bill would go in              
 the back of the budget and it could be reduced accordingly and sent           
 to the free conference committee.  A separate appropriation would             
 not go to the free conference committee and it would not                      
 necessarily be lowered.                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 2312                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES stated she suspected a separate appropriation would               
 mean that it would die.  Her recommendation would be to pass HB 47            
 with a fiscal note.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 2329                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KIM ELTON stated HB 47 with a fiscal note would                
 require each department and municipality to cooperate with the                
 Department of Corrections.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 2350                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON withdrew his motion.                                     
                                                                               
 Number 2359                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON moved that HB 47 move from the committee with            
 individual recommendations and the attached fiscal note(s).                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked Representative Allen J. Kemplen, sponsor of the             
 bill, if he had any objection?                                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ALLEN J. KEMPLEN, Alaska State Legislature, replied,           
 "No."                                                                         
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked if there was any objection to the motion.                   
 Hearing no objection, HB 47 was so moved from the House State                 
 Affairs Standing Committee.                                                   
                                                                               
 HB 264 - NEGOTIATED REGULATION MAKING                                       
                                                                               
 The next order of business to come before the House State Affairs             
 Standing Committee was HB 264, "An Act providing for a negotiated             
 regulation making process; and providing for an effective date."              
                                                                               
 Number 2425                                                                   
                                                                               
 WALTER WILCOX, Legislative Assistant to Representative Jeannette              
 James, explained HB 264 took the request of citizens for a change             
 in the regulation making process seriously.  Currently, the                   
 regulations were written first then taken to the public.                      
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-51, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 0001                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. WILCOX explained a negotiated regulation system (neg/reg) was             
 being used by the federal government, Montana and Nebraska.  They             
 found it to be cheaper because it eliminated litigation at the end            
 of the process; the people had their say up front.  The bill                  
 outlined a way to convene a committee by the agency and interested            
 parties, as-well-as, a mediator to create regulations that                    
 everybody could live with.  The package of information provided to            
 the committee members included the following:  sponsor statement,             
 negotiated regulation/rule making, Alaska regulation adoption                 
 process, Montana's neg/reg act, Nebraska's neg/reg act, the neg/reg           
 U.S. code, and the neg/reg Nebraska administrative code.  He                  
 further announced Bob Knight was in the audience today as an expert           
 witness.  He had worked with the neg/reg process at the federal               
 level.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 0067                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Mr. Wilcox how the Administration had              
 responded to this and did the environmental lobby committee know              
 what was being done?                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 0086                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. WILCOX replied the Administration appeared to be heading in the           
 same direction as the bill.  Deborah Behr, Department of Law, was             
 here to testify as well.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 0128                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY wondered how the committee managed to hear the           
 bill today when it was just read across the floor of the House of             
 Representatives.                                                              
                                                                               
 MR. WILCOX replied because we were good.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 0138                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES explained her quest in the legislature had been to try            
 to simplify the regulatory process.  The bill was a good answer               
 even though it cost more up front.  She asked the House State                 
 Affairs Standing Committee members to give this bill a thorough               
 review.  The bill would probably not be moved out of the committee            
 this year.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 0184                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ explained The Yukon Pacific Corporation              
 brought everybody on board up front including the environmental               
 organizations which reduced contentiousness that normally                     
 accompanied the permitting process.  He asked Chair James if that             
 was what she was aiming for?                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 0211                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied, "Correct."  Generally people did not like                
 surprises.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 0247                                                                   
                                                                               
 DEBORAH BEHR, Assistant Attorney General, Legislation and                     
 Regulations Section, Department of Law, was the next person to                
 testify in Juneau.  She had not been able to call all of the                  
 agencies because she just got the bill yesterday at 2:30 p.m.  The            
 Administration had been very interested in neg/reg.  Three                    
 departments had come to her already to explore neg/reg over the               
 summer - Department of Revenue (DOR), Department of Environmental             
 Conservation (DEC), and Department of Natural Resources (DNR).                
                                                                               
 MS. BEHR explained that the Administrative Procedure Act (APA) had            
 not been updated since the 1980's.  Work shops were appropriate and           
 some agencies were starting to conduct work shops on the larger               
 regulation projects.  She cited the Department of Environmental               
 Conservation held work shops on the water quality regulations.                
                                                                               
 MS. BEHR stated she liked the model in the bill because it was an             
 up-front process not raising a lot of constitutional problems.  It            
 set up a board to help plan for the regulation process so that                
 everybody would have an opportunity for comment.                              
                                                                               
 MS. BEHR explained this summer we would need to look at adjusting             
 the bill for the boards and commissions.  She did not know how to             
 negotiate with a board or commission.  She was concerned about the            
 boards that had to act quickly such as the Board of Fisheries.  She           
 was concerned about the open records provision because most                   
 industries did not mind being candid with an agency but they did              
 not want their records to be public.  She stated the bill had many            
 layers and suggested cutting a few to save money.  She cited the              
 provision for a salary to sit on the board.                                   
                                                                               
 (THE TESTIMONY OF MS. BEHR IS NOT COMPLETE DUE TO THE                         
 TELECONFERENCE NETWORK BEING SHUT OFF.  SHE WAS ASKED TO RESTATE              
 HER CONCERNS LATER IN THE HEARING)                                            
                                                                               
 Number 0628                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON asked Ms. Behr to comment on the provision of            
 no judicial review.  What problems would it solve or could occur              
 without a judicial review?                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 0648                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BEHR replied the decision of the commissioner was non-                    
 reviewable.  She did not have a legal problem with it.  The                   
 regulation as a result of a decision was subject to a legal                   
 challenge, however, because it was under existing provisions in law           
 that were not being repealed.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 0669                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON referred Ms. Behr to the language on page 9,             
 line 10 and wondered about the requirement before rather than after           
 and the perception of the public process that went along with it.             
                                                                               
 Number 0700                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BEHR stated a regulator would have to be careful to not give              
 the appearance of special deals with the regulated industry while             
 the regulation was out for public comment.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 0719                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON stated he liked the idea of bringing people to           
 the table to try to work towards the middle.  He wondered if the              
 petition process would create a heavy work load.                              
                                                                               
 Number 0754                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BEHR stated there was an existing petition process in the                 
 current APA.  The bill was asking for a different type of petition;           
 a petition to call for a review committee.  She was not sure of the           
 impact.  The petition process for the APA had not caused a lot of             
 problems.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 0795                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES explained there were two triggers to regulation                   
 writing:  new legislation or a rewrite of existing regulations.  A            
 petition to request the use of neg/reg would come when there was              
 controversy over new legislation for example.  An agency would also           
 choose that process to get the concerns out of the way.  In the               
 case of existing regulations that needed to be rewritten someone              
 would want the neg/reg process because too often regs were written            
 that did not work in the field.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 0882                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON asked Ms. Behr if there should be a provision            
 to keep people from petitioning for a regulation change if there              
 were administrative appeals that had yet to be exhausted?  He cited           
 the Permanent Fund Dividend (PFD) process as an example.                      
                                                                               
 Number 0914                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BEHR stated someone should not be able to file one petition               
 after another either.                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 0924                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Ms. Behr if she had been in contact with           
 Nebraska or Montana?                                                          
                                                                               
 MS. BEHR replied, "Not yet."                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 0938                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ stated this was clearly the product of               
 earlier industrial/organizational theorists.  He asked Mr. Wilcox             
 what sort of theorists or scholars had looked into this?                      
                                                                               
 Number 0959                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. WILCOX replied in the bill package there was a document                   
 summarizing the responses of the individuals in the various states            
 on how it worked.                                                             
                                                                               
 Number 1010                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. WILCOX explained that neg/reg would probably only be used less            
 than six times per year according to Ms. Behr.  We were looking at            
 very expensive or very controversial types of regulations.  The               
 example of the PFD by Representative Elton would not apply because            
 the commissioner would summarily dismiss it.                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1036                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES added it would also require more than one person.                 
                                                                               
 Number 1042                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON stated what was important to him was not                 
 necessarily important to the commissioner.  He asked Mr. Wilcox               
 what discretion an agency had to reject a petition?                           
                                                                               
 Number 1060                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. WILCOX replied a convener was appointed by the agency who did             
 background research on the issue, impact, and cost.  The convener             
 then reported back to the commissioner with the recommendation to             
 either form a committee or not.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 1077                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON stated, therefore, it might not be an issue of           
 magnitude but of cost.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1103                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. WILCOX stated somebody would have to address the issue.  If it            
 had gotten to the point of a petition the department would have               
 investigated it already.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1143                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BEHR stated she could see the neg/reg process being used by               
 more than resource agencies.  There had been very controversial day           
 care regulations addressed in the past.                                       
                                                                               
 Number 1181                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES explained she got the idea for neg/reg when she was               
 working with the assisted living regulations.  The Division of                
 Family and Youth Services included a consumer and a day care                  
 provider when drafting the regulations.  The Department of                    
 Transportation and Public Facilities worked with the trucking                 
 industry on trucking regulations.  The Department of Revenue worked           
 with the industry on oil tax regulations.                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1204                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BEHR stated some could be done without the bill.                          
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied, "You're right."  An outline of how it would              
 work was needed, however.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1293                                                                   
                                                                               
 ROBERT HUNTINGTON KNIGHT, Jr. was the next person to testify in               
 Juneau.  He explained he was involved with setting up the                     
 Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a member of the founding             
 task force.  He worked for the first two administrators as an aide,           
 and was at the Department of Interior in water pollution before the           
 EPA.  The idea was to begin to control and regulate the discharges            
 to improve the quality of the environment throughout the nation.              
 No one was sure how to do it except through the regulatory process            
 either in a hostile fashion or by talking to the polluters.  We               
 assumed good faith in the polluter and created a committee setting            
 where there was room for exchanges of views.  Work sessions were              
 held as well to prevent the leakage of proprietary secrets.                   
                                                                               
 MR. KNIGHT, Jr. further stated that he did not see anything in HB
 264 to prohibit or restrain boards and commissions from making                
 emergency regulations.  If the emergency became a long problem then           
 the neg/reg would be a good route to follow but it might not be               
 necessary.                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. KNIGHT, Jr. further stated the federal agencies found neg/reg             
 to be a very exciting process because input at a formative stage              
 allowed for the identification of issues that might not have                  
 appeared until a regulation was promulgated.  It sped up the                  
 process, cut costs, and reduced litigation.                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1657                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked Mr. Knight, Jr. how long had Montana and Nebraska           
 used neg/reg?                                                                 
                                                                               
 MR. KNIGHT, Jr. replied he did not know about Montana and Nebraska.           
 The federal government started using this type of process in the              
 1960's.                                                                       
                                                                               
 MR. WILCOX explained Montana started in 1993, Nebraska in 1994, and           
 the federal government in 1990.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 1681                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. KNIGHT, Jr. stated the process had been around a long time.               
 The idea that a statue was needed was new.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1690                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES explained she was turned on to the idea of neg/reg                
 because some agencies were using it while other were not.                     
 Something was needed in statute so that the option was considered.            
                                                                               
 Number 1712                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ wondered if anyone opposed neg/reg.  He              
 could not think of a reason why.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 1721                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. KNIGHT, Jr. stated some opposed it because there was the                  
 potential to add another layer of bureaucracy that could impede the           
 regulatory decision making process.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1801                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ explained he characterized the situation             
 where the interested parties were brought in prior to the                     
 development of any conflict.                                                  
                                                                               
 MR. KNIGHT, Jr. stated there could already be conflict.  He cited,            
 in regards to oil spills, prior to the task force the agencies were           
 blaming each other.  It took only four months to get an interagency           
 agreement between the players.  However, 20 years later the                   
 agencies spent 10 hours discussing who was in charge after the                
 Exxon Valdez oil spill.  The agreements had to be revisited.                  
                                                                               
 Number 1942                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON explained, when he first looked at this issue,           
 cost and time were of concern to him because both were frustrating            
 to agencies.  However, upon review, neg/reg would save on cost and            
 time because it would occur prior to the current public process.              
 He asked Mr. Knight, Jr. if his notion was correct?                           
                                                                               
 Number 2020                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. KNIGHT, Jr. replied, "Yes."  It was a public meeting, not a               
 private meeting, for anyone interested.  It was a way to get the              
 parties together to talk things out ahead of time.  The savings was           
 not necessarily in the process itself; but, in time, effort,                  
 litigation, and cooperation.                                                  
                                                                               
 MR. WILCOX asked that Ms. Behr repeat her testimony for the record.           
                                                                               
 Number 2161                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BEHR reiterated she had not been able to talk to all of the               
 agencies because she just got the bill yesterday afternoon.  The              
 agencies that had expressed an interest in neg/reg were DEC, DOR              
 and DNR.  The DEC participated in the process now with its water              
 quality work shops which were successful.  She liked the bill                 
 because it called for a process before the start of the regulatory            
 process, therefore, it did not raise constitutional problems.  In             
 addition, it was an advisory process so the commissioner was not              
 bound to the recommendation.  The Department of Law would be                  
 willing to work this summer on the issues.                                    
                                                                               
 MS. BEHR explained she was concerned about the commissions and                
 boards and how to negotiate with one member when that member did              
 not speak for the whole.  She was concerned about the Board of                
 Fisheries and the Board of Game and their excelerated time lines.             
 They might need to be exempted, for example.  She was concerned               
 about open records.  Private businesses were reluctant to give                
 proprietor records to the state for fear of it becoming a public              
 document.  She was concerned about providing a salary for the                 
 members.  She was concerned about the 30 day time frame to set up             
 a committee being too long.  She was concerned about ethics.  She             
 was concerned about the definition of unanimous consent.                      
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-52, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 0001                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BEHR further stated she was concerned about immunity.  More               
 would probably be willing to service if there was some kind of                
 immunity.  She was concerned about the agencies receiving gifts to            
 set up the committee.  She would prefer that it went to the state             
 rather than the committee itself to remove any appearance of                  
 influence.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 0085                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES announced she would like to hear HB 264 one more time             
 before the end of session in order to hear from the Administration            
 and industry members.                                                         
                                                                               
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 0118                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES adjourned the House State Affairs Standing Committee              
 meeting at 11:45 a.m.                                                         
                                                                               

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