Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/24/1994 08:00 AM House STA
* first hearing in first committee of referral
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE March 24, 1994 8:00 a.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Al Vezey, Chairman Representative Pete Kott, Vice Chairman Representative Bettye Davis Representative Gary Davis Representative Harley Olberg Representative Jerry Sanders MEMBERS ABSENT Representative Fran Ulmer COMMITTEE CALENDAR SCR 15: Relating to the twenty-eighth annual Boys' State. MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE WITH DO PASS RECOMMENDATION HB 504: "An Act relating to sale of alcoholic beverages to military personnel who are guests in certain clubs." MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE WITH DO PASS RECOMMENDATION HB 302: "An Act excluding certain sport officials and certain recreational activities sanctioned by an employer from coverage provided under workers' compensation; and providing for an effective date." MOVED OUT COMMITTEE AS CSHB 302(STA) WITH DO PASS RECOMMENDATION HB 358: "An Act allowing a mobile home owner to request a certificate of title from the Department of Public Safety." MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE AS CSHB 358(STA) WITH DO PASS RECOMMENDATION SCR 17: Honoring Alaskan Tommy Moe for winning gold and silver medals at the 1994 Winter Olympic Games in Lillehammer, Norway. MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE AS HCS CSSCR 17(STA) WITH NO RECOMMENDATION WITNESS REGISTER JERRY BURNETT, Staff Senator Randy Phillips Alaska State Capitol, Room 103 Juneau, AK 99811-0460 Phone: 465-4949 POSITION STATEMENT: Addressed SCR 15 for Senator Randy Phillips, Sponsor TIM SULLIVAN, Staff Representative Eldon Mulder Alaska State Capitol, Room 116 Juneau, AK 99811-0460 Phone: 465-2647 POSITION STATEMENT: Addressed HB 504 REPRESENTATIVE MIKE NAVARRE Alaska State Legislature Alaska State Capitol, Room 521 Juneau, AK 99811-0460 Phone: 465-3779 POSITION STATEMENT: Prime sponsor of HB 302 PATRICK LOUNSBURY, Staff Representative Brian Porter Alaska State Capitol, Room 122 Juneau, AK 99811-0460 Phone: 465-4930 POSITION STATEMENT: Addressed HB 358 for Representative Brian Porter, Sponsor BEN MARSH 2550 Denali, Ste. 1310 Anchorage, AK 99503 Phone: 278-3615 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 358 LEONARD GROSS 9499 Braxton Anchorage, AK 99507 Phone: 349-9599 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 358 JUANITA HENSLEY, Chief of Driver Services Division of Motor Vehicles Department of Public Safety P.O. Box 20020 Juneau, AK 99802 Phone: 465-2650 POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on HB 358 PREVIOUS ACTION BILL: SCR 15 SHORT TITLE: TWENTY-EIGHTH ANNUAL BOYS' STATE SPONSOR(S):SENATOR(S)PHILLIPS,Leman,Rieger,Ellis,Kerttula, Duncan,Lincoln,Donley,Halford,Taylor,Sharp,Pearce,Kelly; REPRESENTATIVE(S) Navarre JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 02/04/94 2682 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S) 02/04/94 2682 (S) STATE AFFAIRS 02/04/94 2694 (S) COSPONSOR ADDED: KERTTULA 02/23/94 2935 (S) STA RPT 3DP 02/23/94 2935 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTE PUBLISHED (S.STA) 02/23/94 (S) STA AT 9:00 AM BUTROVICH RM 205 02/23/94 (S) MINUTE(STA) 03/09/94 (S) RLS AT 00:00 AM FAHRENKAMP ROOM 203 03/09/94 (S) MINUTE(RLS) 03/10/94 3148 (S) RULES RPT 3CAL 1NR 3/10/94 03/10/94 3156 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME 03/10/94 3156 (S) COSPONSOR(S):LINCOLN, DONLEY, HALFORD 03/10/94 3156 (S) TAYLOR, SHARP, PEARCE, KELLY 03/10/94 3156 (S) PASSED Y18 N- E2 03/10/94 3160 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H) 03/11/94 2711 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S) 03/11/94 2711 (H) STATE AFFAIRS 03/14/94 2803 (H) CROSS SPONSOR(S): NAVARRE 03/24/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102 BILL: HB 504 SHORT TITLE: SALE OF ALCOHOL IN CLUBS SPONSOR(S): SPECIAL CMTE MILITARY & VETERANS AFFAIRS JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 02/16/94 2414 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S) 02/16/94 2414 (H) MLV, STATE AFFAIRS 03/02/94 (H) MLV AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 17 03/02/94 (H) MINUTE(MLV) 03/07/94 2643 (H) MLV RPT 4DP 03/07/94 2643 (H) DP:MULDER,WILLIS,KOTT,FOSTER 03/07/94 2643 (H) -ZERO FISCAL NOTE (REV) 3/7/94 03/24/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102 BILL: HB 302 SHORT TITLE: WORKERS COMP FOR RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) NAVARRE,Mulder JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 05/06/93 1665 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S) 05/06/93 1665 (H) L&C, STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE 02/24/94 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17 02/24/94 (H) MINUTE(L&C) 02/28/94 2544 (H) L&C RPT 4DP 02/28/94 2544 (H) DP:PORTER,GREEN,MULDER,HUDSON 02/28/94 2544 (H) -ZERO FISCAL NOTE (LABOR) 2/28/94 03/09/94 2703 (H) COSPONSOR(S): MULDER 03/24/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102 BILL: HB 358 SHORT TITLE: MOBILE HOME CERTIFICATES OF TITLE SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) PORTER,Mulder JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 01/10/94 2021 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S) 01/10/94 2022 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE 03/03/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102 03/03/94 (H) MINUTE(STA) 03/24/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102 BILL: SCR 17 SHORT TITLE: HONORING TOMMY MOE SPONSOR(S):SENATOR(S)KERTTULA,Halford,Phillips,Kelly,Leman, Duncan,Taylor,Salo,Sharp,Miller,Pearce,Zharoff,Little, Jacko,Lincoln,Rieger,Donley,Ellis; REPRESENTATIVE(S)Larson,Nicholia,Navarre,Toohey JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 02/14/94 2826 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S) 02/14/94 2826 (S) STATE AFFAIRS 02/23/94 2943 (S) COSPONSOR(S): RIEGER, DONLEY, ELLIS 03/04/94 (S) STA AT 9:00 AM BUTROVICH RM 205 03/04/94 (S) MINUTE(STA) 03/07/94 3086 (S) STA RPT CS 3DP NEW TITLE 03/07/94 3086 (S) ZERO FN TO SCR & CS (S.STA) 03/09/94 (S) RLS AT 00:00 AM FAHRENKAMP ROOM 203 03/09/94 (S) MINUTE(RLS) 03/10/94 3148 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR 3/10/94 03/10/94 3157 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME 03/10/94 3157 (S) STA CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT 03/10/94 3157 (S) AM NO 1 MOVED BY SALO 03/10/94 3157 (S) AM NO 1 ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT 03/10/94 3158 (S) PASSED Y18 N- E2 03/10/94 3160 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H) 03/11/94 2712 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S) 03/11/94 2712 (H) STATE AFFAIRS 03/11/94 2743 (H) CROSS SPONSOR(S):LARSON 03/14/94 2803 (H) CROSS SPONSOR(S):NICHOLIA, NAVARRE 03/15/94 2818 (H) CROSS SPONSOR(S):TOOHEY 03/24/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102 ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 94-37, SIDE A Number 000 CHAIRMAN AL VEZEY called the meeting to order at 8:00 a.m. Members present were REPRESENTATIVES KOTT, SANDERS and OLBERG. The meeting is on teleconference with Anchorage. SCR 15 - TWENTY-EIGHTH ANNUAL BOYS' STATE CHAIRMAN VEZEY opened SCR 15, Senator Randy Phillips, sponsor, Leman, Rieger, Ellis, Kerttula and Duncan, co- sponsors, for discussion. (REPRESENTATIVES B. DAVIS and G. DAVIS joined the meeting at 8:02 a.m.) Number 027 JERRY BURNETT, STAFF, SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS, gave the sponsor statement for SCR 15. He stated SCR 15 applauds the volunteers who make Boys' State possible. Senator Phillips attended Boys' State in 1968 when it was held in Copper Center. Number 043 REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT inquired what takes place at Boys' State. MR. BURNETT explained student leaders from around Alaska are invited to participate in a mock government. They learn governmental and legislative processes as participants. Number 055 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT moved to pass SCR 15 from committee with individual recommendations. Number 058 CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked the committee secretary to call the roll. IN FAVOR: REPRESENTATIVES VEZEY, KOTT, B. DAVIS, G. DAVIS, SANDERS, OLBERG. ABSENT: REPRESENTATIVE ULMER. MOTION PASSED HB 504 - SALE OF ALCOHOL IN CLUBS CHAIRMAN VEZEY opened HB 504, sponsored by House Special Committee on Military and Veterans' Affairs, for discussion. Number 075 TIM SULLIVAN, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER, SPONSOR, addressed HB 504. He stated current Alaska statute requires that in order to purchase and be served alcohol in the American Legion or other patriotic organizations, active duty military personnel must be in uniform. This requirement exists even though the military does not require personnel to wear their uniform during off duty hours. He noted HB 504 would amend statute by removing the words "in uniform," thereby allowing military personnel to visit a patriotic organization without having to wear a uniform. He stated Alaska's VFW and American Legion posts support HB 504 to better accommodate the military personnel they represent. Number 091 CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked when the last citation for a violation of this statute was issued. MR. SULLIVAN stated he did not know. REPRESENTATIVE KOTT commented the idea of the statute was about 40 years outdated. He explained a citation is not usually issued; however, club managers tend to notify the installation commander of the violation and it is then handled internally. Presently, none of the clubs on base, NCO or Officers' Clubs, require the personnel to be in uniform. He felt HB 504 was updating the statute to fit the times. Number 107 CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked if the clubs on military reservations were subject to regulation by Alaska statute. MR. SULLIVAN answered no. Number 110 CHAIRMAN VEZEY clarified HB 504 was only for external organizations. Number 119 REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS moved to pass HB 504 from committee with individual recommendations. Number 121 CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked the committee secretary to call the roll. IN FAVOR: REPRESENTATIVES VEZEY, KOTT, B. DAVIS, G. DAVIS, SANDERS, OLBERG. ABSENT: REPRESENTATIVE ULMER. MOTION PASSED HB 302 - WORKERS COMP FOR RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES CHAIRMAN VEZEY opened HB 302 for discussion. Number 145 REPRESENTATIVE MIKE NAVARRE, prime sponsor, addressed HB 302. He stated a recent court decision ruled if an employer sponsored a team, and if employees play on the team, then by virtue of having paid the team fees to the league which runs the fields, the company is thereby providing the field. He noted HB 302 merely changes the definition section to make clear that this sort of interpretation does not happen. If the definition was left unchanged, an employee playing softball in a league who gets hurt after work is eligible for workers' compensation from the employer/team sponsor. He stated HB 302 changes the definition, whereby "only if the field is at a remote job site or on the employment premises, does workers' compensation apply." REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE stated the Senate added a new section to the companion bill which states "persons employed as sports officials are not eligible." This amendment relieves the leagues from having to acquire workers' compensation for those they hire on a temporary daily basis. Number 179 CHAIRMAN VEZEY commented he thought REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE was referring to SB 336. REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE clarified he was referring to SB 356, introduced by the Labor & Commerce Committee at his request. He stated he had hoped to speed the process by going to the Senate. He noted HB 302 actually passed as part of a comprehensive workers' compensation bill a few years ago, which the Governor in turn vetoed because of other sections. Number 190 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT questioned the intent by leaving in the employment premises in HB 302. He gave the example of school districts with recreational fields, who may sponsor their own team and challenge other districts, thereby playing on their own field. He also mentioned fire station challenges. Would the employees be eligible for workers' compensation because the activities were sponsored on the employer's premises. REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE stated those instances would probably be subject to a court case if the employee did decide to apply for workers' compensation. He felt the employees might be covered. Number 208 CHAIRMAN VEZEY stated under existing statute there would be no question that the employees would be covered. Number 215 REPRESENTATIVE BETTYE DAVIS asked if REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE planned on amending HB 302 or did he not want to. REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE replied he believed HB 302 made sense; however, changes to the bill would be at the discretion of the committee. Number 229 REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS commented he did not have a problem with HB 302 and he noted the next committee was House Finance. He asked where REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE preferred to accommodate changes to HB 302. Number 234 REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE answered if the committee would consider adopting the Senate Labor & Commerce committee substitute for SB 356, he would encourage House Finance to waive HB 302. Number 238 CHAIRMAN VEZEY mentioned CSSB 356(L&C) did carry a zero fiscal note. CSSB 356(L&C) was distributed to the committee members. Section 2 of CSSB 356, reads verbatim to Section 1 of HB 302. He noted the CSSB 356 had a new Section 1 addressing the new subsection (4), which clarifies paid sports officials are not covered by workers' compensation. He believed this was the only change in Titles 23.30.230. REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE affirmed CHAIRMAN VEZEY. Number 262 CHAIRMAN VEZEY stated he believed a committee substitute for a senate bill could not be adopted in House State Affairs. Number 266 REPRESENTATIVE HARLEY OLBERG inquired if the text of CSSB 356(L&C) could be adopted as the committee substitute for HB 302. CHAIRMAN VEZEY replied they could. Number 272 REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG moved to adopt the title and text of CSSB 356(L&C) as the committee substitute for HB 302. CSHB 302: "An Act excluding recreational activities sponsored by an employer from coverage provided under workers' compensation, unless participation is required as a condition of employment; and providing for an effective date." Number 275 CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked the committee secretary to call the roll. IN FAVOR: REPRESENTATIVES VEZEY, KOTT, B. DAVIS, G. DAVIS, SANDERS, OLBERG. ABSENT: REPRESENTATIVE ULMER. MOTION PASSED Number 293 REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG moved to pass CSHB 302 from committee with individual recommendations and accompanying zero fiscal note. Number 297 CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked the committee secretary to call the roll. IN FAVOR: REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY, KOTT, B. DAVIS, G. DAVIS, SANDERS, OLBERG. ABSENT: REPRESENTATIVE ULMER. MOTION PASSED. HB 358 - MOBILE HOME CERTIFICATES OF TITLE CHAIRMAN VEZEY opened HB 358 for discussion. He noted the committee has heard HB 358 once before. Number 318 PATRICK LOUNSBURY, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER, SPONSOR, addressed HB 358. He submitted a revised work draft, version O, for CSHB 358. He stated the subcommittee revised the work draft to "allow" the titling of mobile homes, rather than "mandate." Number 340 CHAIRMAN VEZEY stated at the first hearing CSHB 358, version K, had been adopted. He clarified the new version before the committee was version O. He asked MR. LOUNSBURY to elaborate. Number 343 MR. LOUNSBURY explained CSHB 358, which stated "an act requiring a mobile home owner to obtain a certificate of title," was changed to read "an act allowing a mobile home..." He stated Ben Marsh, Alaska Manufactured Housing, agreed a title would be a great asset for them. CHAIRMAN VEZEY clarified the title of CSHB 358, version O, reverts back to the original title of HB 358. MR. LOUNSBURY agreed. He continued page 1, line 13 of CSHB 358, version K, was changed from "shall issue," to "may issue a certificate of title." Number 387 CHAIRMAN VEZEY reiterated the changes to page 1, line 13 of CSHB 358, version K. He noticed the fee was still $100. There was a minor grammatical change in Section 1, subparagraph (b). Number 400 MR. LOUNSBURY stated they felt CSHB 358, version O, was a good bill. He mentioned there had been concerns about the $100 fee and they would work with it as long as the bill remained at least revenue neutral. He noted acquiring a title for other types of property costs at least $100; therefore, as the fee stands, it is not over and beyond a real estate charge to title property. Number 418 REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS clarified there had not been any changes to Section 2. MR. LOUNSBURY affirmed REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS. Number 424 REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG moved to adopt CSHB 358, version O. Number 434 CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked the committee secretary to call the roll. IN FAVOR: REPRESENTATIVES VEZEY, KOTT, B. DAVIS, G. DAVIS, SANDERS, OLBERG. ABSENT: REPRESENTATIVE ULMER. MOTION PASSED CHAIRMAN VEZEY moved to the Anchorage teleconference site. Number 439 BEN MARSH, EXECUTIVE SECRETARY, ALASKA MANUFACTURED HOUSING ASSOCIATION (AMHA), supported CSHB 358. He stated LEONARD GROSS was also present to testify. They had requested HB 358 in order to correct the problems resulting from HB 99, from the 1993 Legislative Session. He stated without someone to guarantee titles to mobile homes, the buyer does not have a means of finding out if there are any liens against the units. MR. MARSH noted the AMHA represents probably 50 percent of the mobile homes in Alaska, therefore they consider themselves as the spokespersons for the industry. They have been organized for 50 years. Number 462 CHAIRMAN VEZEY inquired if MR. MARSH indicated he felt a title from the Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV) would guarantee ownership. Number 465 MR. MARSH replied a title from DMV would give the sale of mobile homes a great deal more assurance. Number 470 CHAIRMAN VEZEY referred to MR. MARSH's indication that without a title, a person would not know if there were liens against the property. He asked about the relationship between a title and a lien. Number 475 MR. MARSH deferred the question to MR. GROSS. Number 478 LEONARD GROSS, VICE PRESIDENT, ALASKA MANUFACTURED HOUSING ASSOCIATION, supported CSHB 358. He pointed out a lien is recorded on mobile home titles, just as vehicles are. Presently, under the new system, they have to file under the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC). He stated a UCC can only be traced to a persons name; therefore, it is very difficult to research for outstanding liens. He stated he knew of two cases where individuals were induced to buy a trailer and gave deposits based on a fraudulent bill of sale. He believed CSHB 358 would defend the public. He felt the $100 fee was reasonable seeing as how it currently costs $88 for UCC filings, which lack any assurance. Number 493 CHAIRMAN VEZEY reiterated a lien is expressed on the title, and clarified this would only be correct if it was a mortgage or lease-interest holders lien. He noted a mechanic could not put a lien on a title. MR. GROSS stated CHAIRMAN VEZEY's comments were true. He stated the intent is to protect the buyer, not the owner. CHAIRMAN VEZEY said MR. GROSS was implying CSHB 358 would provide protection against liens, when a person could still buy a mobile home and later find out there was $50,000 against it liens. He pointed out CSHB 358 did not address the problem with liens. Number 506 MR. GROSS responded if the title was clear and protected by a UCC filing, he did not understand how a mechanics lien for example, could be put on a mobile home title. CHAIRMAN VEZEY answered they would file a lien under "Alaska's Lien Law." Number 510 MR. GROSS asked if a lien would be recorded under the individual's name or under the title of the trailer. CHAIRMAN VEZEY replied he understood the filing could be made a lien against the property. He believed a lien was usually against property as opposed to against an individual, which would be a suit. Number 515 MR. GROSS stated liens against property are recorded in the Recorder's Office and can be traced. Number 519 MR. MARSH interjected if the DMV were to carry titles on mobile homes, and a mechanic wanted to place a lien against a mobile home, he asked then if it would be convenient for the mechanic to send in a picture for identification as the lien holder of the title. Number 524 REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG summarized the elimination of titling mobile homes in HB 99 from 1993 caused problems. He stated the intent of CSHB 358 is to cure those problems. He believed the questions about liens were ancillary when compared to the main question of trying to reinstate peoples' ability to acquire a mobile home title. Having the title service available at least gives people the option. Number 534 CHAIRMAN VEZEY clarified his point as some people have tried to imply a title is a "panacea" for ownership rights and interest. He stated a title does not guarantee ownership; it is only a change of documents giving financial institutions a sense of security. He felt CSHB 358 would not resolve all the problems there are in determining the ownership of mobile homes. Number 544 REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG agreed; however, CSHB 358 only attempts to enable people title to mobile homes. This intent was not to fix every problem. CHAIRMAN VEZEY referred to the $88 cost for a UCC filing and noted this cost was higher than what he was familiar with. He asked why. Number 552 MR. GROSS corrected CHAIRMAN VEZEY in that a mobile home is personal property, not real property. Assuming a contract is over five years, the initial filing, extension and releasing plus filing with both the local areas and the state, would make up the cost. Number 562 CHAIRMAN VEZEY clarified MR. GROSS was referring to six filings. He outlined the cost includes an $8 local filing and a $10 state filing, which must be repeated two additional times. MR. GROSS affirmed CHAIRMAN VEZEY, and added the process was for two people. Number 570 CHAIRMAN VEZEY noticed the calculation did not add up correctly. He inquired if the AMHA felt the $100 fee was economically feasible. Number 576 MR. GROSS responded they originally proposed $50; however, it was suggested that $100 was necessary to make the program feasible for the state. They did not object to the $100 fee. Number 585 JUANITA HENSLEY, CHIEF OF DRIVER SERVICES, DIVISION OF MOTOR VEHICLES (DMV), answered questions on CSHB 358. Number 587 CHAIRMAN VEZEY referred to her testimony at the previous hearing of CSHB 358 when she indicated the work related to the issuance of titles varied from very easy to troublesome, requiring a lot of research. He asked her to elaborate. Number 594 MS. HENSLEY answered the issuance of a title to mobile home with the proper documentation (i.e., bill of sale, manufacturers' statement of ownership (MSO), bank mortgage papers indicating a serial number) is a regular automobile title. Number 611 REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG pointed out with an initial sale, the DMV would need an MSO, a lien document from the financing institution, and a copy of the contract from the dealer. Number 614 MS. HENSLEY stated upon the initial sale from the dealer, REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG was correct. If the sale was a regular person-to-person sale, the DMV would need a bill of sale and they would have to research if the mobile home had ever been titled before. This research tends to cause problems. For example, when a mobile home has been sold after 3-4 prior owners, and the new owner would like a title. Number 621 CHAIRMAN VEZEY commented statutes provide that certain information is required for the DMV to issue a title. This information, he noted, should be provided by the people requesting a new title. He felt the DMV was really required to do any searches. Number 630 MS. HENSLEY clarified the files she was referring to were in archives; therefore, it requires a manual search for the original owner because they are no longer on the computer system. The process is time-consuming. MS. HENSLEY stated the title mandate in the original HB 358 caused her to originally believe the proposed $50 fee had to be raised to $100 to make the bill revenue neutral. She pointed out the higher fee was negotiable; however, making CSHB 358 at least revenue neutral was necessary. She noted the reason mobile home titling was deleted by HB 99 was because the manual research they were having to do was very labor intensive. Number 654 CHAIRMAN VEZEY clarified the work gets difficult because the DMV does go back past one chain of ownership. MS. HENSLEY affirmed CHAIRMAN VEZEY. Number 658 REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG stated he believed the problem really existed with people who have completely lost the title after several sales, and the DMV has to search with only a bill of sale and a serial number. MS. HENSLEY replied REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG's comment was "exactly the case." Number 666 CHAIRMAN VEZEY inquired if the titles were found on a search based on manufacturer's serial numbers. MS. HENSLEY answered they do a manual search with the bill of sale and serial number. Number 669 CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked if the DMV was searching manually through microfiche. MS. HENSLEY replied CHAIRMAN VEZEY was correct. Number 671 REPRESENTATIVE JERRY SANDERS did not understand why searching for a mobile home title was so much more difficult than searching for an automobile title. MS. HENSLEY responded the statute for mobile home titling stated they "may" title the mobile home; thereby, not requiring people to get titles. Automobiles titles are required for the new owner to register for and acquire. Number 678 REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS asked how long the mobile home titling laws have stated "may." MS. HENSLEY answered the titling of mobile homes has been "may" ever since it was put into statute. TAPE 94-37, SIDE B Number 000 CHAIRMAN VEZEY questioned if it would not be feasible to state if it is not reasonable to locate the title from the DMV, then the title is the buyer's/seller's responsibility. He questioned the responsibility of both parties. Number 020 MS. HENSLEY responded she felt his suggestion would be a legislative call. She noted according to meetings with the sponsor and the industry, one of the main concerns was that the industry and individuals are unable to obtain financing without a vehicle title. She emphasized DMV would continue titling mobile homes; however, the program would need to be revenue neutral by providing the revenue and the funds to function. Number 059 CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG what type of financing would be available for a used mobile home. What is the value life considered to be. He guessed 25 or 30 years. REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG answered CHAIRMAN VEZEY was about right. Most bankers want and require titles. Without a title they do not have to furnish a loan. Number 076 CHAIRMAN VEZEY questioned at what point of a mobile homes life would a bank not finance it. He offered 20 years as an example. REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG replied Alaska Housing at one time wrote 20 year mobile home loans. He stated a bank could have a policy to not finance a mobile home after 20 years, but some judge the mobile home on its condition. Number 093 CHAIRMAN VEZEY stated manufactured housing covered more than mobile homes. He clarified the subject of their debate was a transportable home, and not just a prefabricated home. Number 098 MR. GROSS answered they were referring to transportable homes that become a permanent residence. Quasi-permanent homes sometimes on leased or personal property. Number 107 CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked when the home becomes an improvement to real property, is it no longer considered a mobile home. MR. GROSS explained if a mobile home was on a quasi- permanent foundation rather than blocking, it would make a difference. Number 115 MR. MARSH clarified, the distinction by the municipality of Anchorage was if the mobile home is on a permanent foundation such as footings and concrete, it would then be considered real estate. If the mobile home is on leased property or blocks, then it is considered personal property. Number 121 REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG added if the mobile home was not permanently attached to real estate the bank would actually do a real estate mortgage on the property and a separate mortgage on the mobile home. Number 128 CHAIRMAN VEZEY referred back to his original question of the fee and whether or not it was reasonable. He stated the reasonableness of the fee depended entirely upon how much work is expected from the DMV. He asked if the committee felt the DMV should be responsible for doing searches, and suggested there could be a cutoff point to make the individual responsible. He compared the suggestion to real property where the title is entirely up to the individual. Number 144 REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG pointed out subdivision lots do not come with MSOs. Number 154 CHAIRMAN VEZEY agreed with REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG. He directed his comment to MR. GROSS and MR. MARSH, and stated CSHB 358 is a "stopgap" measure, which makes people feel better and satisfies financial institutions. He reiterated they do not feel the fee is unreasonable and the DMV did not really know how much the cost for implementation would be. Hearing no objection from the industry, he did not believe the legislature would be inclined to lower the fee. If the fee were lowered, the state would have to have a responsibility cutoff point. Number 174 MR. GROSS responded he was happy with the fee. He felt the fee was worth it to have a central registry, even though it would not be title insurance. He commented if the title is not required, however, the problems MS. HENSLEY mentioned will continue. He would prefer the title exchange to be mandated. Number 187 REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG mentioned the subcommittee voted unanimously in favor of "requiring." Number 190 CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked what would then be done with those people who do not comply. Number 194 REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG stated there would not be a rush to the DMV office to buy mobile home titles. Titles would probably be bought when an individual decided to sell a mobile home. Number 199 CHAIRMAN VEZEY stated he did not feel that was the case. He stated the problem exists in the sale of 30-50 year old mobile homes for the price of $3,000 to $5,000. He noted mobile homes were a common form of housing. Number 214 REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG agreed with CHAIRMAN VEZEY that CSHB 358 is a "stopgap" measure, and stated it could be revised in the future. He believed in the future there could be a smaller fee and DMV, by regulation, could establish a research cost per hour. Number 224 CHAIRMAN VEZEY responded research should be incumbent upon the Alaska Manufactured Housing Association to investigate the needs of their own industry and propose suggestions. He stated he was amenable to the difference between the words "allowing" and "requiring." He was, however, more comfortable with "allowing." Number 236 REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS asked if CSHB 358 could make titling required from this point forward. CHAIRMAN VEZEY answered the problem was not with people getting titles if they were financing through a financial institution. When two people buy and sell, the title then tends to drop out of the system and may never return. Number 243 REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS asked if titling was required as of now, would the problem take care of itself in 20 years. CHAIRMAN VEZEY replied he did not believe anything would change. REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG believed CHAIRMAN VEZEY was absolutely right. Once a mobile home is no longer able to be financed, it "falls into a gray area," he commented. He felt this problem probably should not be addressed in statute. Number 259 MS. HENSLEY mentioned her fiscal note was based on not requiring everyone already owning a mobile home to come in and acquire a title. She stated at the point of sale, the individual would need to provide the proof and obtain the title. She also based her fiscal note upon the number of mobile home sales per year, the turnover rate and the average years the mobile home was owned by an individual. The average year of mobile home ownership she believed, was eight. CHAIRMAN VEZEY inquired if there was indication from the industry as to how many times a mobile home might be financed. Number 274 MS. HENSLEY replied they did not advise her of that. Number 276 REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG estimated with an average 8-year turnover it would possibly be financed three times. He noted as the mobile home ages the term shrinks dramatically. Number 281 CHAIRMAN VEZEY stated version O of CSHB 358 had been adopted, which incorporates page 2 of the original HB 358. He asked the pleasure of the committee. Number 287 REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG moved to pass CSHB 358, version O, from committee with individual recommendations and accompanying fiscal note. Number 296 CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked the committee secretary to call the roll. IN FAVOR: REPRESENTATIVES VEZEY, KOTT, B. DAVIS, G. DAVIS, SANDERS, OLBERG. ABSENT: REPRESENTATIVE ULMER. MOTION PASSED SCR 17 - HONORING TOMMY MOE CHAIRMAN VEZEY opened CSSCR 17 for discussion. He introduced a House State Affairs committee substitute for CSSCR 17. He noted the changes of the committee substitute were found on page 1, line 16 through page 2, line 5. Number 329 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT moved to adopt the House committee substitute for CSSCR 17(STA), and pass it from committee with individual recommendations, asking unanimous consent. Number 334 REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS objected. Number 337 CHAIRMAN VEZEY commented he would be reluctant to pass the House committee substitute out if the committee was uncomfortable with it. Number 339 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT recognized CHAIRMAN VEZEY had put a lot of work into the House committee substitute and he did see significant changes that would prevent the resolution from being passed. Therefore, he continued to entertain his motion. Number 354 CHAIRMAN VEZEY, hearing no further objection, asked the committee secretary to call the roll. IN FAVOR: REPRESENTATIVES VEZEY, KOTT, B. DAVIS, G. DAVIS, SANDERS, OLBERG. ABSENT: REPRESENTATIVE ULMER. MOTION PASSED ANNOUNCEMENTS CHAIRMAN VEZEY announced the final drafts of the Alaska Railroad Reports had arrived and were available for those who would like a copy. He asked individuals who take copies to return them, so they can be stored for future reference. REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG announced he would be in Glennallen on Saturday at the District Republican Convention; therefore, he would be unable to attend the meeting. REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS announced he would be in Anchorage on Saturday and would attend the meeting by teleconference. ADJOURNMENT CHAIRMAN VEZEY, having no more business before the committee, adjourned the meeting at 9:13 a.m.