Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/01/1994 08:00 AM STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
             HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                            
                          March 1, 1994                                        
                            8:00 a.m.                                          
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Representative Al Vezey, Chairman                                            
  Representative Pete Kott, Vice-Chairman                                      
  Representative Gary Davis                                                    
  Representative Harley Olberg                                                 
  Representative Jerry Sanders                                                 
  Representative Fran Ulmer                                                    
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
  Representative Bettye Davis                                                  
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  HCR 27:   Relating to support for the National Rifle                         
            Association's gun safety program for children.                     
                                                                               
            PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                            
                                                                               
  *HB 404:  "An Act relating to the authority of the                           
            commissioner of natural resources to reconvey, or                  
            relinquish an interest in, land to the United                      
            States if that land or interest being reconveyed                   
            or relinquished is identified in an amended                        
            application for a land allotment under federal law                 
            and the original claim for an allotment described                  
            land that is now within, or managed as a unit of,                  
            the state park system."                                            
                                                                               
            PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                            
                                                                               
  SB 128:   "An Act relating to legislative audits."                           
                                                                               
            CSSB 128(STA) HEARD AND HELD OVER                                  
                                                                               
  *HB 407:  "An Act relating to issuance of commemorative gold                 
            rush motor vehicle license plates."                                
                                                                               
            HEARD AND HELD OVER                                                
                                                                               
  (* First public hearing.)                                                    
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE                                                     
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  Alaska State Capitol, Room 112                                               
  Juneau, AK  99811                                                            
  Phone:  465-4843                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of HCR 27                                       
                                                                               
  ROGER McKOWAN, Staff                                                         
  Representative Lyman Hoffman                                                 
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  Alaska State Capitol, Room 503                                               
  Juneau, AK  99811                                                            
  Phone:  465-4453                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Gave an overview of HB 404 for                          
                       prime sponsor                                           
                                                                               
  TOM HAWKINS, Senior V.P. & CEO                                               
  Bristol Bay Native Corporation                                               
  P.O. Box 100220                                                              
  Anchorage, AK  99510                                                         
  Phone:  278-3602                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Offered information on HB 404                           
                       (Spoke via offnet)                                      
                                                                               
  SHELBY STASTNY, Director                                                     
  Office of Management and Budget                                              
  P.O. Box 110020                                                              
  Juneau, AK  99811-0020                                                       
  Phone:  465-3568                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against CSSB 128                              
                                                                               
  RANDY WELKER, Legislative Auditor                                            
  Legislative Audit Division                                                   
  Legislative Affairs Agency                                                   
  P.O. Box 113300                                                              
  Juneau, AK  99811-3300                                                       
  Phone:  465-3830                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions on CSSB 128                          
                                                                               
  DUGAN NIELSON, Realty Officer                                                
  Bristol Bay Native Association                                               
  P.O. Box 310                                                                 
  Dillingham, AK  99576                                                        
  Phone:  842-2743                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified via teleconference                            
                       in favor of HB 404                                      
                                                                               
  PERRY AHSOGEAK, Realty Director                                              
  Tanana Chiefs Conference                                                     
  122 1st Ave., Suite 600                                                      
  Fairbanks, AK  99701                                                         
  Phone:  452-8251, ext. 3239                                                  
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified via offnet in favor                           
                       of HB 404                                               
                                                                               
  PETE PANARESE                                                                
  Chief of Field Operations                                                    
  Alaska State Parks Division                                                  
  Department of Natural Resources                                              
  P.O. Box 107001                                                              
  Anchorage, AK  99510                                                         
  Phone:  762-2603                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified via teleconference                            
                       in favor of HB 404                                      
                                                                               
  LARRY LABOLLE, Staff                                                         
  Representative Richard Foster                                                
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  Alaska State Capitol, Room 410                                               
  Juneau, AK  99811                                                            
  Phone:  465-3789                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Gave sponsor statement from HB 407                      
                                                                               
  JUANITA HENSLEY                                                              
  Division of Motor Vehicles                                                   
  Department of Public Safety                                                  
  P.O. Box 20020                                                               
  Juneau, AK  99802                                                            
  Phone:  465-2650                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions on HB 407                            
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
  BILL:  HCR 27                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: SUPPORT NRA GUN SAFETY PROGRAM                                  
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) BUNDE                                          
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/18/94      2096    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/18/94      2096    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS                                    
  02/22/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  02/22/94              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  03/01/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 404                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: NATIVE ALLOTMENTS IN STATE PARKS                                
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) HOFFMAN,Foster,Williams                        
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/26/94      2155    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/26/94      2155    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, RESOURCES                         
  03/01/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
                                                                               
  BILL:  SB 128                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: LEGISLATIVE AUDITS                                              
  SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF LEGISLATIVE BUDGET AND AUDIT                 
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  02/22/93       440    (S)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/22/93       440    (S)   STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE                           
  03/10/93              (S)   STA AT 09:00 AM BUTROVICH                        
                              ROOM 205                                         
  03/10/93              (S)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  03/17/93              (S)   STA AT 09:00 AM BUTROVICH                        
                              ROOM 205                                         
  03/17/93              (S)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  03/18/93       845    (S)   STA RPT  CS  1DP 3NR                             
                              SAME TITLE                                       
  03/18/93       846    (S)   ZERO FISCAL NOTE TO SB & CS                      
                              (S.STA/GOV)                                      
  04/12/93              (S)   FIN AT 09:00 AM SENATE FINANCE                   
                              ROOM 518                                         
  04/12/93              (S)   MINUTE(FIN)                                      
  04/14/93      1353    (S)   FIN RPT    6DP 1NR (STA)CS                       
  04/14/93      1354    (S)   PREVIOUS ZERO FN (S.STA/GOV)                     
  04/14/93      1353    (S)   LETTER OF INTENT WITH FIN                        
                              REPORT                                           
  04/13/93              (S)   MINUTE(FIN)                                      
  04/14/93              (S)   FIN AT 08:30 AM SENATE                           
                              FINANCE 518                                      
  04/14/93              (S)   MINUTE(FIN)                                      
  04/14/93              (S)   MINUTE(RLS)                                      
  04/17/93              (S)   MINUTE(SSA)                                      
  04/23/93      1693    (S)   RULES 3 CAL 1NR    4/23/93                       
  04/23/93      1694    (S)   READ THE SECOND TIME                             
  04/23/93      1694    (S)   STA  CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                     
  04/23/93      1695    (S)   ADVANCE TO THIRD READING                         
                              FAILED Y12 N8                                    
  04/23/93      1695    (S)   THIRD READING 4/24  CALENDAR                     
  04/24/93      1741    (S)   READ THE THIRD TIME                              
                              CSSB 128(STA)                                    
  04/24/93      1741    (S)   (S) ADOPTED FIN LETTER OF                        
                              INTENT                                           
  04/24/93      1741    (S)   PASSED Y20 N-                                    
  04/24/93      1746    (S)   TRANSMITTED TO (H)                               
  04/27/93      1552    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  04/27/93      1552    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE                           
  01/29/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  01/29/94              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  02/15/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  02/15/94              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  03/01/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 407                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: COMMEMORATIVE GOLD RUSH LICENSE PLATES                          
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) FOSTER,Toohey                                  
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/27/94      2166    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/27/94      2166    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE                           
  01/31/94      2207    (H)   COSPONSOR(S):  TOOHEY                            
  03/01/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 328                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: BIENNIAL VEHICLE REGISTRATION                                   
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MARTIN,BARNES,Phillips,B.Davis                 
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/03/94      2013    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                 
  01/10/94      2013    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/10/94      2013    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE                           
  01/13/94      2054    (H)   COSPONSOR(S):  B. DAVIS                          
  01/22/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  01/22/94              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  01/29/94              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  02/08/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  02/08/94              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  03/01/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 438                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: DOG MUSHING VANITY PLATES                                       
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) DAVIES,Bunde                                   
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  02/04/94      2256    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/04/94      2256    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE                           
  02/11/94      2359    (H)   COSPONSOR(S):  BUNDE                             
  03/01/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-18, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
  HCR 27 - SUPPORT NRA GUN SAFETY PROGRAM                                      
                                                                               
  CHAIR AL VEZEY called the meeting to order at 8:00 a.m.                      
  Members present were REPRESENTATIVEs KOTT, SANDERS and                       
  OLBERG.                                                                      
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY opened HCR 27 for discussion and asked                           
  REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE for his presentation.  He                           
  distributed an assortment of books to the committee to look                  
  over while they watched a video.                                             
                                                                               
  (REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS joined the committee at 8:01 a.m.)                  
                                                                               
  Number 031                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE, Prime Sponsor of HCR 27, thanked                   
  CHAIR VEZEY for rehearing HCR 27 and gave a brief overview                   
  of the HCR 27 video and the materials distributed to the                     
  committee.  He stated the materials were a sample of                         
  teaching aids available to the schools.  The safety                          
  information is presented in a coloring book and comic book                   
  fashion, of which the video is used in conjunction with.  He                 
  noted all of the materials are free to school districts who                  
  choose to use them.                                                          
                                                                               
  Number 050                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT made the observation that the                       
  Representative (Fran Ulmer) who requested the additional                     
  information about HCR 27 was not present.  He wanted to move                 
  HCR 27 out of committee without seeing the video tape                        
  because he had already seen it.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 056                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY preferred to view the tape, stating it would                     
  only take seven minutes.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 058                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated CHAIR VEZEY was correct.                         
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY paused the meeting to watch the EDDIE EAGLE                      
  PROGRAM video tape at 8:03 a.m.                                              
                                                                               
  (REPRESENTATIVE ULMER joined the meeting at 8:07 a.m.)                       
                                                                               
  Number 062                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY resumed the meeting at 8:09 a.m.  The Eddie                      
  Eagle video tape had been watched and the additional                         
  literature had been reviewed and discussed.  He asked the                    
  committee if there was a motion.                                             
                                                                               
  Number 074                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT moved that HCR 27 be passed from                         
  committee with individual recommendations, asking unanimous                  
  consent.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 081                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY recognized the motion.  The committee secretary                  
  called the roll, and HCR 27 passed unanimously with                          
  individual recommendations from the House State Affairs                      
  Committee.                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY announced REPRESENTATIVE ULMER had arrived.                      
  HB 404 - NATIVE ALLOTMENTS IN STATE PARKS                                    
                                                                               
  Number 106                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY opened HB 404 for discussion.  He announced the                  
  Sponsor for HB 404 was REPRESENTATIVE LYMAN HOFFMAN, and Co-                 
  Sponsors were REPRESENTATIVES FOSTER and WILLIAMS.                           
                                                                               
  Number 124                                                                   
                                                                               
  ROGER McKOWAN, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE LYMAN HOFFMAN, gave an                  
  overview of HB 404.  He said the Department of Natural                       
  Resources (DNR) and a number of Native allotment holders in                  
  state parks have recently focused on changes to Title 38.                    
  Title 38 has a technical change which would allow the state                  
  of Alaska to reconvey land back to the Bureau of Land                        
  Management (BLM), in the hopes to expedite the relocation of                 
  allotments in state parks.  The Bristol Bay Native                           
  Corporation and the Bristol Bay Native Association notified                  
  REPRESENTATIVE HOFFMAN that efforts to rectify the transfer                  
  situation have halted.  More than a hundred applications                     
  have been waiting for transfer for 20 years and without HB
  404 they may wait much longer.                                               
                                                                               
  MR. McKOWAN stated, for technical questions, that TOM                        
  HAWKINS, SENIOR V.P. & CEO of BRISTOL BAY NATIVE                             
  CORPORATION; CHARLIE BUNCH, ASSISTANT AREA DIRECTOR for                      
  TRUST LANDS DIVISION, BUREAU OF INDIAN AFFAIRS; and DUGAN                    
  NIELSON, REALTY OFFICER of BRISTOL BAY NATIVE ASSOCIATION,                   
  were available to testify.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 160                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked if anyone was present from DNR who could                   
  familiarize the committee with Title 38.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 165                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. McKOWAN stated he was under the impression there would                   
  be someone present; however, TOM HAWKINS may be able to                      
  answer the committee's questions about Title 38.                             
                                                                               
  Number  170                                                                  
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY stated there had been problems with the offnet                   
  teleconference connections.                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 185                                                                   
                                                                               
  TOM HAWKINS, SENIOR V.P. & CEO BRISTOL BAY NATIVE                            
  CORPORATION, testified in favor of HB 404.  He said HB 404                   
  would be an important tool for state land managers.  By                      
  allowing them to reconvey allotments, which have been                        
  relocated to avoid public interest conflicts, litigation                     
  could be avoided, the state will save money, and it will                     
  speed up the transfer of land to private ownership.  He                      
  stated the Department of the Interior projects it will be 40                 
  years before the adjudication survey and final patents of                    
  these lands will be completed.  The technical change to                      
  Title 38 allows the allottee, the state, and the federal                     
  government, if in agreement, to relocate the Native                          
  allotment and move it over to avoid public interest                          
  conflicts.  He stated AS 38.05.035(b)9 then allows the                       
  commissioner to reconvey land back to the BLM, if                            
  erroneously conveyed to the state by the BLM and if the                      
  Native allotment has been validly filed.  In 1991, Congress                  
  gave the BLM the flexibility to make this change, but                        
  current law inhibits the state from exercising this                          
  flexibility.  He pointed out that HB 515 from the DNR has                    
  similar language as an overall Title 38 update, although it                  
  has several provisions and committee referrals.  He urged                    
  the committee to support HB 404.                                             
                                                                               
  Number 243                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT stated page 1, line 10, suggests the                     
  commissioner may establish "reasonable" procedures and adopt                 
  "reasonable" regulations.  He asked MR. HAWKINS to define                    
  "reasonable," believing the word could have different                        
  meanings to different people.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 251                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY reminded REPRESENTATIVE KOTT that page 1, line                   
  10, was existing statute.  He said the amendment regards the                 
  Administrative Procedure Act.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 255                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT thought it might be a good time to clear                 
  up the language.                                                             
                                                                               
  Number 259                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. HAWKINS responded that the commissioner of DNR, upon                     
  request of the BLM, has to determine that it is in the best                  
  interest of the state to reconvey land to the federal                        
  government.  "Reasonable" is focused toward accomplishing                    
  this best interest claim and making sure the public and                      
  affected parties has reviewed the decision before the                        
  commissioner determines the best interest.  He felt the                      
  legislation, which sets up the decision making process, was                  
  satisfactory and the term "reasonable" was not a point of                    
  controversy.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 281                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY reiterated "reasonable" is the most litigated                    
  word in the American court system.                                           
                                                                               
  Number 291                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER questioned the list of possible of                      
  conveyances, referencing a December 9, 1993, memo faxed from                 
  Mr. Hawkins to Mr. Ron Swanson (on file).  She asked if he                   
  was familiar with it.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 297                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. HAWKINS did not have the document.                                       
                                                                               
  Number 299                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER stated it listed the number of possible                 
  allotment applications in each of the park systems.  She                     
  asked, of the total 150 possible applications, how many                      
  would be authorized again and become effective?                              
                                                                               
  Number 312                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. HAWKINS replied it would be too difficult to make a                      
  judgement on unadjudicated claims and he would not do it.                    
  The ability to relocate and avoid conflict may not be an                     
  appropriate choice in all cases.  He expected about 25                       
  percent of the applicants would avail themselves to                          
  relocation to work with the state and federal government.                    
  He noted this was a "very ball park estimate."                               
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY placed the teleconference sites on listen only.                  
                                                                               
  SHELBY STASTNY arrived to testify on CSSB 128, therefore                     
  CHAIR VEZEY paused discussion on HB 404 and opened CSSB 128                  
  for discussion.                                                              
  SB 128 - LEGISLATIVE AUDITS                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 340                                                                   
                                                                               
  SHELBY STASTNY, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET                    
  (OMB), offered his concerns on CSSB 128.  He said CSSB 128                   
  requires the Division of Audit and Management Services                       
  (AMS), OMB, to follow up legislative audit reports.  He felt                 
  this should be done, however, in a cooperative manor between                 
  the AMS and the Division of Legislative Audits (DLA) to                      
  agree which audits should be followed up on.                                 
                                                                               
  MR. STASTNY said statutorily requiring a follow up will                      
  completely redirect the efforts of the AMS.  The AMS has                     
  only eight to ten auditors, whereas the DLA has nearly 30                    
  working year round.  He felt the appropriate function of the                 
  AMS was to work primarily on audits under the executive                      
  branch and redirecting the AMS to the DLA would not be                       
  proper.  The executive branch does, however, feel the DLA                    
  audits should be followed up.                                                
                                                                               
  MR. STASTNY stated the function of the auditors is to sell                   
  their recommendations to the agencies.  The subject matter                   
  is very familiar to those who did the audit, and the OMB                     
  feels those people ought to be working on the acceptability                  
  and implementation of the recommendations.  Another entity                   
  added to the process would require them to be duly informed                  
  of the recommendations, of which it would require an                         
  overview of almost the entire audit.  He felt this would be                  
  an inefficient process to use the AMS.  If the                               
  recommendation is not good enough for the agency to follow,                  
  even the executive branch would have the same difficulty as                  
  the DLA in convincing an agency.                                             
                                                                               
  MR. STASTNY noted the DLA has an Anchorage office where many                 
  of the audits are performed.  The OMB sends people to                        
  Anchorage sometimes, but requiring follow up on these                        
  reports may result in significant amounts of travel.                         
                                                                               
  MR. STASTNY said the OMB is concerned that, with the                         
  additional work load, they would have to hire more                           
  employees.  He felt three people would be required to carry                  
  out the current work load and distribute the additional work                 
  load.  The AMS currently regularly follows up their reports                  
  after six months to determine whether or not the agencies                    
  have accepted their recommendations.  He felt this was a                     
  good idea for the DLA also.  He noted the AMS would be                       
  willing to work with recommendations where the governor's                    
  office, for example, agrees there is a good idea which an                    
  agency is reticent to follow.                                                
                                                                               
  (REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS left the meeting at 8:30 a.m.)                       
                                                                               
  Number 424                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY stated he had difficulty interpreting the                        
  wording.                                                                     
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked MR. STASTNY to clarify if he was implying                  
  that on page 2 the OMB will be at the direction of the                       
  Legislative Budget and Audit Committee (LB&A)?  He commented                 
  that he did not interpret page 2 in this way.                                
                                                                               
  Number 435                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. STASTNY responded that the words do not say it, but they                 
  believe it will be the result.  The words say the OMB shall                  
  monitor the implementation and recommendations made by the                   
  LB&A.  He stated Mr. Welker wrote a letter to Senator Steve                  
  Frank basically saying through some administrative                           
  procedures they would be able to take care of some of the                    
  OMB's concerns.  He believed the letter also mentioned the                   
  legislative auditor will work in concert with OMB to balance                 
  the resources reasonably available; the legislative auditor                  
  will prioritize items according to significance; and                         
  basically the legislative auditor and OMB will work with the                 
  resources available.                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 453                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked if MR. STASTNY stated that the LB&A                        
  currently has 30 auditors working.                                           
                                                                               
  Number 454                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. STASTNY replied around 30.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 455                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY thought they only had two to three.  He asked                    
  how many auditors the AMS had.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 459                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. STASTNY answered the AMS has eight to ten.                               
                                                                               
  Number 461                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY clarified the AMS would have to add                              
  approximately four people to keep up the work load.                          
                                                                               
  Number 462                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. STASTNY corrected that their fiscal note stated three.                   
                                                                               
  Number 466                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY noted CSSB 128 mandates additional work will be                  
  done; however, there is a question as to whether additional                  
  people are required.  This was of concern to him considering                 
  the current budget pressures.  He wondered how much work                     
  could be created with two agencies cyclicly deriving work                    
  for each other to keep checking on.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 480                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. STASTNY agreed with CHAIR VEZEY.  He stated the DLA                      
  operates at the direction of the legislature on larger tasks                 
  and the AMS primarily works at the request of the governor's                 
  office or an agency if a department has asked for an audit                   
  of their procedures.                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 497                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER asked if MR. STASTNY had an alternative                 
  recommendation.  She believed the Senate State Affairs                       
  Committee meant for LB&A, after an audit, analysis and                       
  recommendation, to see action because LB&A and the                           
  legislature cannot really enforce the recommendation.  She                   
  stated the LB&A has the option of withholding funds to an                    
  agency.                                                                      
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked if withholding funds would be the                          
  "ultimate hammer."                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 505                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER said yes, but the "ultimate hammer" may                 
  also hurt the LB&A, as well as the agency.  The legislature                  
  often chooses between not giving the agency money, even                      
  though they want them to do the work.  She believed CSSB 128                 
  would involve the AMS in the work while being one step short                 
  of withholding all funds.  The executive branch could                        
  implement the agency in direction.  She said CSSB 128 states                 
  that recommendations will be directed to the AMS to either                   
  implement or respond why they would rather not.                              
                                                                               
  Number 520                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. STASTNY stated the recommendations of the LB&A are                       
  heard; however, they are not always agreed with.  He said                    
  the OMB would like to work with LB&A to find things they                     
  agree on.  He felt the AMS should not be put in the middle                   
  of the auditor and the audited agency.  He felt if the                       
  agencies were not on task they should be dealt with through                  
  the budget or legislative process.  Procedural detail is up                  
  to the executive branch and there may be differences of                      
  opinion as to how policy is carried out.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 545                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked if the LB&A and the legislature has been                   
  frustrated with this problem in the past.                                    
                                                                               
  Number 548                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER responded that the chair of the Senate                  
  State Affairs Committee introduced a bill to deal with                       
  frustrations he or the LB&A feels.  She said SENATOR                         
  PHILLIPS, Chair of LB&A, would have to answer why the bill                   
  was introduced.  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER said generally the                     
  executive branch responds positively to the recommendations                  
  of LB&A.  Sometimes an audit uncovers a practice which                       
  frustrates the will, then if the people get mad enough, they                 
  turn to the budget process and try to take away funding.                     
                                                                               
  Number  573                                                                  
                                                                               
  MR. STASTNY replied the alternative proposal would be to                     
  possibly meet on a regular basis to discuss concerns not                     
  currently voiced.  He said the OMB values the efficient                      
  management of their departments and prefers an informal form                 
  of action.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 587                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER asked if MR. STASTNY ever meets with                    
  RANDY WELKER.                                                                
                                                                               
  Number 588                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. STASTNY did not know how regularly, but thought GARY                     
  ANDERSON, DIRECTOR OF OMB AUDIT DIVISION, meets with MR.                     
  WELKER.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 589                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked REPRESENTATIVE ULMER, member of LB&A, why                  
  she had not introduced this type of legislation.                             
                                                                               
  Number 591                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER did not feel it was a big problem.  She                 
  said the agencies had generally been responsive in terms of                  
  responding to the initial audit and in implementing                          
  reasonable requests.  She stated Senator Phillips may be                     
  aware of something she was not.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 598                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked if the demand on services would influence                  
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER's decision.  A zero fiscal note from                    
  Senate Rules and the House State Affairs Committee was                       
  before the committee, as was a modest fiscal note from OMB                   
  of about $206,000 a year, escalating every year of three                     
  people.  He stated auditors create a lot of work and, with                   
  the offices working together, there could be a lot of jobs                   
  created.  These jobs would have to be funded.                                
                                                                               
  Number 610                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER felt it would be appropriate to ask                     
  RANDY WELKER how many times there has been a problem, and if                 
  CSSB 128 was necessary.                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 614                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY stated zero fiscal note bills have been known to                 
  show impacts.  He asked how much work would be driven by                     
  CSSB 128.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 622                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. STASTNY responded that the submitted fiscal note was                     
  prepared by the AMS, which indicated possibly 20 percent of                  
  the recommendations of LB&A would be followed up.  This                      
  would amount to about 3,600 hours for the AMS, which would                   
  take three auditors.                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 633                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT questioned how many audited agencies                     
  agree with the recommendations of the LB&A.  He noted, if                    
  the audited agency agrees with the recommendation, the AMS                   
  will be responsible for monitoring the implementation.  He                   
  wondered what it would take to follow up the implementation.                 
                                                                               
  Number 640                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. STASTNY said he did not know, but he could possibly find                 
  out from RANDY WELKER.                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 642                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if there were a lot of                             
  disagreements.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 645                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. STASTNY said not really; LB&A does good work and the                     
  agencies generally agree with their work.                                    
                                                                               
  Number 647                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT clarified that 80-90 percent could                       
  perhaps be in agreement with recommendations by LB&A,                        
  therefore, the AMS would have to implement these                             
  recommendations.                                                             
                                                                               
  MR. STASTNY said the AMS would have to become familiar with                  
  the implementation, and this is why he felt the DLA would be                 
  better to do the implementation because they prepared the                    
  audit.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 658                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY stated there does not seem to be any recourse,                   
  and the LB&A would be free to request services from another                  
  branch of government's budget without restraint.  He said                    
  government would drive government in cost.  He asked for a                   
  recommendation to temper this effect, perhaps a set number                   
  of auditors who would respond to the LB&A requests.  The                     
  legislature could choose whether or not to fund those                        
  auditors.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 671                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. STASTNY recommended there be monthly meetings with DLA,                  
  as an informal method, and not statutory requirements.                       
                                                                               
  Number 676                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS asked if "monitoring" was an                         
  auditing term with specific meaning.                                         
                                                                               
  Number 679                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. STASTNY believed "monitoring" was used just in general                   
  English language.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 681                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS stated CSSB 128 directed the AMS to                  
  "monitor," and it could have different meanings to different                 
  people.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 685                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. STASTNY replied that "monitor" does not have special                     
  meaning.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 686                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY introduced RANDY WELKER as the next person to                    
  testify.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 692                                                                   
                                                                               
  RANDY WELKER, LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR, LEGISLATIVE AUDIT                         
  DIVISION, LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS AGENCY, answered questions on                  
  CSSB 128.  He addressed CHAIR VEZEY and said there is not an                 
  urgent need for CSSB 128, but SENATOR PHILLIPS was primarily                 
  interested because there could be a better success rate on                   
  LB&A recommendations.                                                        
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-18, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. WELKER believed SENATOR PHILLIPS was looking for a long                  
  term mechanism to not only improve implementation rate, but                  
  also keep significant recommendations before the LB&A.  He                   
  said a formal mechanism provides a systematic review.                        
                                                                               
  MR. WELKER addressed REPRESENTATIVE KOTT and said he did not                 
  know the specific number of agreements because it was                        
  constantly changing.  The DLA has a high success rate in                     
  getting agencies to agree with recommendations, but their                    
  follow up in implementation does not always match.  The                      
  agencies may have a matter of priority within their shop or                  
  they may not have the resources to implement the                             
  recommendations.  He suspected some agencies may even agree                  
  with the recommendation to have the audit come to a smooth                   
  end.  Some agencies simply disagree.  He stated CSSB 128 is                  
  designed to involve the OMB and the recommendations the LB&A                 
  thinks are important for policy matters.  To create                          
  continuity, the LB&A would like the perspective of the                       
  governor's office on recommendations it decides to forward                   
  to the OMB.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 077                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS asked what sort of responses from                    
  the OMB does the DLA get.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 097                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. WELKER responded that the current DLA involvement with                   
  the OMB implementations is limited.  A copy of all DLA audit                 
  reports is supplied to the OMB for their files.  Currently,                  
  the DLA and the AMS are working on different things;                         
  however, they do communicate to make sure work is not                        
  duplicated.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 100                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER asked MR. WELKER's reaction to MR.                      
  STASTNY's recommendation to have informal meetings.                          
                                                                               
  Number 107                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. WELKER thought MR. STASTNY's idea would eliminate a                      
  formal mechanism to bring recommendations before the LB&A.                   
  With a concern for administration changes, CSSB 128 would                    
  assure a continued program.                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 128                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked MR. WELKER to comment on the fiscal notes,                 
  feeling CSSB 128 obviously has the potential of creating                     
  more work.  He asked, Would the administration have to hire                  
  more people and appropriate money to allow for this, or                      
  would the legislature address it as though, since extra                      
  money was not appropriated, they do not expect the OMB to                    
  respond to the bill this year?                                               
                                                                               
  Number 144                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. WELKER responded that Senate State Affairs discussed                     
  this issue and resolved it with a zero fiscal note.  He                      
  stated the current fiscal note is similar to the 1993                        
  version and Senate State Affairs felt there would be                         
  flexibility in dealing with the resource limitations.  He                    
  thought three people, present or additional, were not                        
  necessary.  He said AMS would have to adjust and communicate                 
  with the DLA on the amount of work they receive.  Since the                  
  majority of the recommendations received will have the                       
  affected agencies in agreement, he felt the agencies would                   
  have to be monitored, not intensely reaudited.  The agencies                 
  need to know they are not going to slide through without                     
  changes, he said.                                                            
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked what the penalty would be for violating                    
  this statute if CSSB 128 were to pass.                                       
                                                                               
  Number 184                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. WELKER answered, not criminal penalties, but the LB&A                    
  may bring on pressure through the budget processes.  He said                 
  CSSB 128 does not include specific penalties.                                
                                                                               
  Number 194                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked why CSSB 128 should be put into statute if                 
  it did not have a means of enforcement.  He asked if the                     
  legislative "hammer" was increasing and the administrative                   
  "hammer" was decreasing.  He asked what CSSB 128 is                          
  improving.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 208                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. WELKER replied the intent is not to change the balance                   
  of power, but further a goal that both the legislature and                   
  administration share to improve state government.                            
                                                                               
  Number 214                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked what the "tool" would be in CSSB 128 to                    
  enforce the statute.                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 218                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. WELKER answered there are several laws without specific                  
  penalties, but their formal expression of policy by the                      
  legislature gives them recognition so as agencies will                       
  follow them.  He said CSSB 128 would not be an ineffective                   
  law.                                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 229                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS asked if MR. WELKER gets frustrated                  
  with the OMB when he has to relate to them.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 234                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. WELKER replied that over the years there have been                       
  shifts in implementation and the DLA has no specific concern                 
  with the current OMB.  He said CSSB 128 is an accumulation                   
  of frustration by some LB&A members and also the frequent                    
  sight of good recommendations not taken advantage of.  He                    
  stated the DLA should take care of implementation, and he                    
  did not strongly disagree, but implementation of                             
  recommendations is ultimately the responsibility of the                      
  administration.                                                              
                                                                               
  (REPRESENTATIVE ULMER left the meeting at 9:05 a.m.)                         
                                                                               
  Number 257                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked about current audits on agencies                   
  and implementation followed up by the DLA.                                   
                                                                               
  Number 262                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. WELKER stated the DLA's primary large audit, the State                   
  Single Audit, which is the financial audit of the State of                   
  Alaska in its entirety, averages 70-75 significant                           
  recommendations.  The DLA follows up on the recommendations                  
  they made to the state in the previous year.  The DLA makes                  
  recommendations on special audits looking at particular                      
  areas of concern requested by the LB&A, but they may not                     
  return to those areas for several years.  He said CSSB 128                   
  is focused towards these special audits.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 285                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked for clarification that the DLA                     
  does not reevaluate if the recommendations have been                         
  implemented.  He asked if anyone does.                                       
                                                                               
  Number 288                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. WELKER said there is no formal mechanism and CSSB 128                    
  would help in this area.  Noting the sunset process, the DLA                 
  is sometimes asked to revisit agencies several times.  In                    
  these cases the DLA has the advantage of file history.                       
                                                                               
  Number 304                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT questioned why the DLA would not want to                 
  reevaluate agencies to see if the recommendation had been                    
  implemented.  Does lack of funding or man power limit the                    
  DLA?  He felt the follow up should not be that difficult.                    
                                                                               
  Number 318                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. WELKER responded that he has no control over his                         
  workload and he probably has 15-20 requested special audits,                 
  which he has not even been able to start yet.  He noted that                 
  even if he did follow up on the special audits, he still has                 
  no enforcement mechanism, and he would have to relay the                     
  same recommendation that the agency ought to do it.  He                      
  thought pressure from the executive branch would create                      
  pressure and help in quick direct implementation.  The                       
  problem is a resource issue, he said.                                        
                                                                               
  (REPRESENTATIVE ULMER rejoined the meeting at 9:24 a.m.)                     
                                                                               
  Number 335                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked MR. WELKER to comment on the                       
  number of audits he was responsible for in the 18th                          
  Legislature, as compared to the 17th Legislature.  He asked                  
  if this was a new problem.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 340                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. WELKER answered no, the DLA has always been busy.                        
                                                                               
  Number 349                                                                   
                                                                               
  Hearing no more questions, CHAIR VEZEY announced CSSB 128                    
  would be held in committee and called for a short recess at                  
  9:12 a.m.                                                                    
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY called the meeting back to order 9:18 a.m. and                   
  reopened HB 404 for discussion.  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS was                 
  present.                                                                     
  HB 404 - NATIVE ALLOTMENTS IN STATE PARKS                                    
                                                                               
  Number 365                                                                   
                                                                               
  DUGAN NIELSON, REALTY DEPARTMENT, BRISTOL BAY NATIVE                         
  ASSOCIATION, testified in favor of HB 404.  He stated that                   
  the remaining Native allotment applications are in conflict                  
  with state land selections.  He stated resolutions are found                 
  by going before the Interior Board of Land Appeals and tend                  
  to be a great expense to both parties.  He said HB 404 will                  
  help avoid years of litigation and great expense.  He noted                  
  HB 404 provides a mechanism of resolution in situations of                   
  land ownership uncertainty.                                                  
                                                                               
  (REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG rejoined the meeting at 9:20 a.m.)                    
                                                                               
  Number 387                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked why they restrained from making more                       
  changes to Title 38 than they did in HB 404 to really                        
  facilitate the process.                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 399                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. NIELSON stated SB 293 had been introduced, which does                    
  take more action than HB 404, and it may expedite the                        
  process even further.                                                        
                                                                               
  (REPRESENTATIVE KOTT rejoined the meeting at 9:21 a.m.)                      
                                                                               
  Number 404                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY understood that the first change in Section 1                    
  establishes the Administrative Procedure Act which will                      
  govern how the commissioner will set regulations.                            
                                                                               
  Number 412                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. NIELSON agreed.                                                          
                                                                               
  Number 414                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY classified MR. NIELSON as a user of these                        
  services and asked if he endorsed this method of adopting                    
  regulations.  He noted there were not many other options.                    
                                                                               
  Number 430                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. NIELSON said he did not understand the question.                         
                                                                               
  Number 434                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY stated there is a process to adopt regulations,                  
  and the commissioner does not have to pay attention to the                   
  public input process, but failure to do so could be grounds                  
  for litigation.  He asked if HB 404 was creating another                     
  source of adjudication by incorporating the Administrative                   
  Procedures Act.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 444                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. NIELSON thought the best-interest determination would                    
  preclude the public from expressing too much concern.                        
                                                                               
  Number 447                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked if MR. NIELSON was comfortable with this                   
  as a user.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 448                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. NIELSON stated he had no other options.  If it does not                  
  work, it will need to be fixed again.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 455                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Fairbanks offnet site.                              
                                                                               
  Number 460                                                                   
                                                                               
  PERRY AHSOGEAK, REALTY DIRECTOR, TANANA CHIEFS CONFERENCE                    
  (TCC), testified in favor of HB 404.  He said TCC provides                   
  land management services under contract to the Bureau of                     
  Indian Affairs (BIA) for Native allotment holders within the                 
  TCC region.  He related that he has worked on conflict cases                 
  in the past, and resolving land conflicts requires an                        
  extensive amount of time for both the state and the BIA                      
  contractors involved.  He said HB 404 would alleviate this                   
  problem by allowing allottees and the state to negotiate the                 
  location of the allotments presently within the park system.                 
  The state benefits from spending less staff time and finally                 
  resolving the conflict.  The allottee benefits from                          
  obtaining their title, within their current lifetime, of                     
  lands they are entitled to under the Native Allotment Act.                   
  He said the TCC supports HB 404.                                             
                                                                               
  Number 483                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY, feeling HB 404 had a very limited scope, asked                  
  ROGER McKOWAN, REPRESENTATIVE LYMAN HOFFMAN'S STAFF, if he                   
  would characterize it the same way.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 490                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. McKOWAN said he would.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 491                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY clarified that HB 404 only deals with land in a                  
  state park or management system.                                             
                                                                               
  Number 492                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. McKOWAN agreed with CHAIR VEZEY.                                         
                                                                               
  Number 493                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY understood the problem is that the Native                        
  allotment has a grant from the federal government.                           
                                                                               
  Number 500                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. McKOWAN clarified the problem is due to AS 38.05.035,                    
  which precludes the state from transferring the alternative                  
  allotment outside the state park back to BLM, who in turn                    
  makes the actual switch.  He described an example in which                   
  the original parcel, parcel A, would be inside the park and                  
  an alternative parcel has been selected elsewhere; the                       
  allottee then transfers their ownership from parcel A to the                 
  alternative land.  Currently, the state is precluded from                    
  taking the alternative and giving it back to the BLM so they                 
  can make the switch and take the allottee out of the state                   
  park and put them on the alternative land.                                   
                                                                               
  Number 518                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS asked if the titles are designed to                  
  be under federal paperwork.  He said if the alternative were                 
  on state land, the state could convey the Native allotment,                  
  but the state does not have that authority.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 525                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. McKOWAN believed the BLM has to make the actual                          
  transfer.  He stated page 2, paragraph (B),(i), says "the                    
  occurrence of the error or omission," and these Native lands                 
  are not allotted in error, so only those allotted in error                   
  can be reconveyed.  Theoretically they cannot be transferred                 
  under the statute.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 535                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY said he understood MR. McKOWAN'S testimony, but                  
  he did not read the statute the same.  He said paragraph 8                   
  states the commissioner may "reconvey or relinquish land, or                 
  an interest in land to the federal government if the land is                 
  described in an amended application for an allotment under                   
  43 U.S.C. 1617 and the land described in the original                        
  application for an allotment is within or otherwise managed,                 
  or subject to management, as a unit of the state park                        
  system;..."  He felt the land addressed in paragraph 8, line                 
  25, is not the same as land addressed in line 26 of the                      
  original application.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 552                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER felt the explanation was clear.  She                    
  showed the committee an analogy on the committee table with                  
  cups.  She thought HB 404 should be clear to the committee                   
  and they should take action.                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 569                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked if the state would lose land to the                        
  federal government with HB 404.                                              
                                                                               
  (REPRESENTATIVE ULMER left the meeting at 9:34 a.m.)                         
                                                                               
  Number 578                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. McKOWAN clarified that the land is now federal land                      
  located in state parks.                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 579                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY stated the allotment is a federal land in a                      
  state park system.                                                           
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG added that the land has been selected                  
  by the state in its entirety.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 583                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY continued that the federal government was                        
  reluctant to transfer the land to the Native allotment                       
  holder.                                                                      
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG stated the federal government cannot                   
  give the Native allotment holder the alternative land,                       
  because the state is entitled to it.                                         
                                                                               
  Number 588                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked what is to preclude the federal government                 
  from completing the transfer of the original Native                          
  allotment within the state management unit, and then the                     
  state and allottee could perform the swap?                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY called for a brief at-ease at 9:35 a.m. to allow                 
  the teleconference operator to reconnect CHARLIE BUNCH, in                   
  Anchorage, so as he could testify.  The meeting resumed at                   
  9:37 a.m.  CHAIR VEZEY asked if MR. BUNCH was present to                     
  testify.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 602                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. HAWKINS replied MR. BUNCH was absent.                                    
                                                                               
  Number 616                                                                   
                                                                               
  PETE PANARESE, CHIEF OF FIELD OPERATIONS, ALASKA STATE PARKS                 
  DIVISION, DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES, testified in                      
  favor of HB 404 from Anchorage.  He said allowing applicants                 
  to relocate the state land outside the state parks will                      
  reduce public impact and speed finalization of applications.                 
  He noted some applications have been pending for over 30                     
  years.  He clarified that the current Native allotments are                  
  on state land.  He said DNR received "temporary, or T.A., to                 
  the land, with the state, then the allotment applications                    
  were filed on top of that."  They want to provide a                          
  mechanism for the commissioner to move these allotments to                   
  state lands located outside the state parks.                                 
                                                                               
  Number 637                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked if the state received a conveyance of the                  
  land before the allotment was granted.                                       
                                                                               
  Number 639                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. PANARESE responded yes, before the land was applied for.                 
                                                                               
  Number 641                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY felt it was not good legal sense, since the                      
  state received conveyance of the land from the federal                       
  government, then under the federal Native Allotment Act, the                 
  allotment was applied for.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 644                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. PANARESE replied the allotments was under the premise                    
  that their use existed prior to the establishment of the                     
  park, and prior to the state receiving the land from BLM.                    
                                                                               
  Number 646                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY clarified the actual application occurred after                  
  the state received conveyance.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 647                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. PANARESE confirmed that CHAIR VEZEY was correct.                         
                                                                               
  Number 648                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG stated the applicant felt he/she had                   
  an interest prior to the state and applied on the off-chance                 
  they might get the land.  He said HB 404 would provide a way                 
  to get them other land because the land does not fall under                  
  "errors and omissions."                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 651                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY commented that he liked REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG's                  
  description.  CHAIR VEZEY asked the committee's pleasure.                    
                                                                               
  Number 656                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG moved that HB 404 be passed from                       
  committee with individual recommendations, a zero fiscal                     
  note, and unanimous consent.                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 659                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY recognized the motion.  The committee secretary                  
  called the roll.  HB 404 passed unanimously from the House                   
  State Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.                     
  REPRESENTATIVES ULMER, B. DAVIS and SANDERS were absent.                     
                                                                               
  (REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG left the meeting at 9:45 a.m.)                        
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY decided to move over HB 328, and opened HB 407                   
  for discussion.                                                              
  HB 407 - COMMEMORATIVE GOLD RUSH LICENSE PLATES                              
                                                                               
  Number 679                                                                   
                                                                               
  LARRY LABOLLE, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE RICHARD FOSTER, Prime                   
  Sponsor of HB 407, presented the sponsor statement.  He said                 
  HB 407 would establish a commemorative plate in recognition                  
  of the gold rush centennial currently being planned across                   
  Alaska.  He said REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER offered a committee                   
  substitute for HB 407 to suit the desires of the Division of                 
  Motor Vehicles and better accomplish the Centennial Plate.                   
                                                                               
  Number 687                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY confirmed a committee substitute had been                        
  presented.  He moved that CSHB 407 be adopted, stating that                  
  the Uniform Rules would allow the CS to be adopted with only                 
  three committee members present.  Hearing no objection, CSHB
  407 was adopted.                                                             
                                                                               
  Number 697                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. LABOLLE stated that CSHB 407 would make the issuance of                  
  the commemorative plate the standard issue for license                       
  plates from 1996-2000.                                                       
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-19, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 012                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked for a clarification of the CSHB 407 time                   
  frame.                                                                       
                                                                               
  MR. LABOLLE stated that page 2, Section 3, says "Section 2                   
  of this act takes effect on January 1, 2000," which would be                 
  the end of the period.  Except for a provision of Section 3,                 
  which says "takes effect January 1, 1996," this would be the                 
  date CSHB 407 would become effective.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 031                                                                   
                                                                               
  JUANITA HENSLEY, DIVISION OF MOTOR VEHICLES (DMV),                           
  DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY, answered questions on CSHB 407.                 
  She said the original HB 407 was adding a special plate                      
  without setting provisions in the statute that would allow                   
  the DMV to charge anything other than the normal                             
  registration fee for that plate.  She said making the design                 
  would have been very costly to the state and the DMV would                   
  have to add an additional plate to its inventory.                            
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY, working with MR. LABOLLE to make changes,                       
  understood the time limit of gold rush plates to be from                     
  January 1, 1996, to December 31, 1999, during which a                        
  special design plate would be made to take the place of the                  
  existing blue and gold plates.  She said the existing design                 
  of the blue and gold plate is currently set in statute and                   
  HB 407 would allow anyone applying for or changing their                     
  registration plate to receive a special plate.  In the year                  
  2000, the statute would revert back to the mandated Alaska                   
  flag, the traditional blue and gold color.                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY said she had not prepared a fiscal note for CSHB
  407 because it was not adopted and the DMV wanted to                         
  continue working with the sponsor, REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER.                    
  She felt CSHB 407 would be more cost effective.  She                         
  explained that the approximate cost to the state for yearly                  
  license plate orders is $313,000 for replacement or new                      
  plates, and CSHB 407 would add approximately 25 percent, or                  
  $78,000, to this cost.  The DMV would base the addition over                 
  a period of time.  She expected more people would apply for                  
  the special plates, needing personnel services; however,                     
  additional positions would not be needed.  She noted that                    
  time expenses would be a factor.                                             
                                                                               
  Number 102                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY understood there would only be one license plate                 
  during the four year period, but he thought MS. HENSLEY                      
  stated it would be optional.                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 110                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY clarified that the commemorative gold rush plate                 
  would be the only plate, aside from the other optional                       
  plates which are already available.  The original HB 407                     
  would have made an additional optional plate available, and                  
  this would be costly to the state.                                           
                                                                               
  Number 119                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked how long the current license plate design                  
  had been in effect.                                                          
                                                                               
  Number 121                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. HENSLEY believed the design had been in effect since                     
  1978.                                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 123                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY thought it began in the 1980's.  He thought                      
  there was currently a design selection process underway to                   
  select a new license plate for Alaska.                                       
                                                                               
  Number 129                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY replied that the only plates the DMV would be                    
  able to redesign, without a statute change, would be                         
  personalized or vanity plates.  The statute prohibits the                    
  DMV from redesigning a license plate, with the exception of                  
  specialty plates offered.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 136                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked about the votes taken in Fairbanks during                  
  the summer on license plate designs.                                         
                                                                               
  Number 140                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY answered there was a proposal to change the                      
  license plate in 1993, but it was voted down on the House                    
  floor.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 144                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked about the fiscal note.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 146                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY expected 25 percent of the people who presently                  
  have license plates to reapply for the new plate.  She                       
  stated that CSHB 407 will also bring in revenue for the                      
  state.  She did not have the exact numbers.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 154                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY clarified that all new plates issued would be                    
  the new design.  He asked how the old plates would still be                  
  valid.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 157                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY said it was optional whether or not a person                     
  would want to change their plates.  Traditional plates would                 
  revert back on January 1, 2000.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 161                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked if the fiscal note would increase or                       
  decrease if the time limit was extended or even made the                     
  plates indefinite.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 165                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY answered it would be CHAIR VEZEY's prerogative.                  
  The statute would have to be changed to redesign the plate.                  
  She said she has seen plates with expiration stickers                        
  throughout the state.  Some plates even have the stickers                    
  all over, whereby the plate cannot be read.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 179                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS stated that CSHB 407 would be an                     
  opportunity to change the plates completely for everyone.                    
  He then asked how this would affect the fiscal note.                         
                                                                               
  Number 185                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY replied that the DMV would then probably want to                 
  phase people into the change, which would be less costly to                  
  the state.                                                                   
                                                                               
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY referred to the $78,000 a year MS. HENSLEY had                   
  mentioned in the fiscal note.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 197                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY clarified that $78,000 was the additional cost                   
  to the normal plate order cost.  She said there will be a                    
  small amount of personnel services costs mainly due to                       
  overtime.  If the new plate was mandated for everyone there                  
  would be additional cost.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 204                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked if CSHB 407 was amended to phase the new                   
  design in and left the new design in statute, until changed                  
  by the legislature, the fiscal would be less than the                        
  currently assumed in CSHB 407.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 209                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY said no, currently replacement plates are being                  
  ordered for people who lose their plates or are just coming                  
  into the state.  She said last year's order was $312,000.                    
                                                                               
  Number 218                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked if last year's order was for approximately                 
  60,000 plates.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 219                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY said she did not know the exact number, but each                 
  plate roughly cost $6.50 a set.  The order would have to                     
  increase with the phase-in because everyone would have to                    
  replace their license plates, as opposed to only 25 percent.                 
  She commented that the costs for the phase-in could be                       
  spread over a two year period, FY 96 and FY 97.  If the                      
  whole design of the license plate was changed and mandated                   
  for everyone, the existing order for the new plates reissued                 
  every year would be added to the 606,000 vehicles already                    
  registered, she said.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 248                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY felt CSHB 407 could be amended by deleting                       
  Section 3, in which case only new plates issued would be of                  
  the new design and the Alaska flag plates would no longer be                 
  inventoried.  People could keep the plates for ten years if                  
  they wanted.  He asked if this scenario would provide a                      
  lesser fiscal note than the existing assumption of CSHB 407.                 
                                                                               
  Number 256                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY responded yes; the DMV would not have to                         
  continue ordering the Alaska flag plates and the Alaska                      
  commemorative gold rush plates, beginning January 1, 1996,                   
  could be continued.  The fiscal note would be less; however,                 
  the additional 25 percent to reapply for the new plates                      
  would probably still exist.  She noted in 1993 the proposal                  
  was amended, and when they tried to delete Section 3 it was                  
  voted down.                                                                  
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked how long the current inventory of plates                   
  would last.                                                                  
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY said the DMV orders plates every year at a cost                  
  of $312,000.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 279                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY clarified that the DMV would now be ordering                     
  plates for FY 95.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 281                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY felt it was good that CSHB 407 did not take                      
  effect until January 1, 1996.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 283                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY thought the DMV would still have to make another                 
  order of the Alaska flag plates to last until 1996.                          
                                                                               
  Number 285                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY commented they would last through January 1,                     
  1996.  She stated a full year's order would not have to be                   
  made, only the required amount.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 291                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY stated that a fiscal note would not be requested                 
  immediately and the committee would work on a committee                      
  substitute.  He said a subcommittee would be appointed with                  
  CHAIR VEZEY and REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER to discuss the                         
  recommendations of the committee.                                            
                                                                               
  Number 299                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY stated there is a gold rush centennial committee                 
  who has sent JAY DULANY, DIRECTOR OF THE DIVISION OF MOTOR                   
  VEHICLES, designs as suggestions of what might be used.  She                 
  said the DMV could try to get 3M Corporation, who creates                    
  the designs and does the coverings, to make up sample plates                 
  with the designs to show the committees.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 309                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY adjourned the House State Affairs Committee at                   
  10:03 a.m.                                                                   
  BILLS NOT HEARD TODAY:                                                       
                                                                               
  HB 328  - BIENNIAL VEHICLE REGISTRATION                                      
                                                                               
  *HB 438 - DOG MUSHING VANITY PLATES                                          

Document Name Date/Time Subjects