Legislature(1999 - 2000)
03/07/2000 03:07 PM House RLS
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE RULES STANDING COMMITTEE
March 7, 2000
3:07 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative John Cowdery, Chairman
Representative Brian Porter
Representative Gail Phillips
Representative Pete Kott
Representative Ethan Berkowitz
Representative Reggie Joule
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Joe Green
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 315
"An Act relating to elimination of the Alaska Administrative
Journal and instituting public notice requirements on the Alaska
Online Public Notice System; amending public notice publication
requirements for certain regulations; and providing for an
effective date."
- MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 48
Relating to the free flow of people and the fair trade of goods
and services across the border between the United States and
Canada.
- MOVED CSHJR 48(RLS) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 315
SHORT TITLE: ONLINE SYSTEM REPLACES AK ADMIN JOURNAL
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
1/24/00 1988 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
1/24/00 1988 (H) STA
1/24/00 1988 (H) ZERO FISCAL NOTE (GOV)
1/24/00 1988 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
2/03/00 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
2/03/00 (H) Moved Out of Committee
2/03/00 (H) MINUTE(STA)
2/04/00 2089 (H) STA RPT 7DP
2/04/00 2089 (H) DP: JAMES, GREEN, HUDSON, WHITAKER,
2/04/00 2089 (H) OGAN, SMALLEY, KERTTULA
2/04/00 2089 (H) ZERO FISCAL NOTE (GOV) 1/24/00
2/04/00 2089 (H) REFERRED TO RULES
3/07/00 (H) RLS AT 3:00 PM FAHRENKAMP 203
BILL: HJR 48
SHORT TITLE: ACCESS ACROSS UNITED STATES/CANADA BORDER
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
1/26/00 2006 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
1/26/00 2006 (H) WTR
2/15/00 (H) WTR AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 124
2/15/00 (H) -- Meeting Postponed to 2/22/00 --
2/22/00 (H) WTR AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 124
2/22/00 (H) Moved Out of Committee
2/22/00 (H) MINUTE(WTR)
2/23/00 2276 (H) WTR RPT 5DP 2NR
2/23/00 2276 (H) DP: COWDERY, BARNES, GREEN, MASEK,
2/23/00 2276 (H) PHILLIPS; NR: BERKOWITZ, JOULE
2/23/00 2276 (H) ZERO FISCAL NOTE (H.WTR)
2/23/00 2276 (H) REFERRED TO RULES
3/07/00 (H) RLS AT 3:00 PM FAHRENKAMP 203
WITNESS REGISTER
ANNETTE KREITZER, Staff to Senator Leman
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 115
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented a proposed amendment for HB 315.
JOHN LINDBACK, Chief of Staff
Office of the Lieutenant Governor
PO Box 110015
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0015
POSITION STATEMENT: Discussed HB 315 and the proposed
amendments.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 00-3, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIRMAN JOHN COWDERY called the House Rules Standing Committee
meeting to order at 3:07 p.m. Members present at the call to
order were Representatives Cowdery, Porter, Phillips, Kott,
Berkowitz and Joule.
HB 315-ONLINE SYSTEM REPLACES AK ADMIN JOURNAL
CHAIRMAN COWDERY announced that the first order of business
before the committee would be HOUSE BILL NO. 315, "An Act
relating to elimination of the Alaska Administrative Journal and
instituting public notice requirements on the Alaska Online
Public Notice System; amending public notice publication
requirements for certain regulations; and providing for an
effective date."
Number 0140
ANNETTE KREITZER, Staff to Senator Leman, Alaska State
Legislature, informed the committee that the purpose of coming
before the committee today was to offer a possible amendment
labeled GH2007\A.1, Bannister, 2/16/00, which reads as follows:
Page 1, lines 1 - 4:
Delete all material and insert:
""An Act relating to the giving of certain state agency
notices; relating to the elimination of the Alaska
Administrative Journal and to the establishment of the
Alaska Online Public Notice System for the giving of
certain notices; and providing for an effective date.""
Page 2, following line 12:
Insert new bill sections to read:
"* Sec. 3. AS 44.19 is amended by adding a new section
to read:
Sec. 44.19.021. Powers of the
lieutenant governor. (a) To promote public
awareness and in the best interests of the
state, the lieutenant governor, under the
provisions of AS 36.30, may provide for the
availability of consolidated space in
newspapers of general circulation and in
trade and industry publications for the
publication of notices regarding state agency
regulations as required by AS 44.62.010 -
44.62.290. The lieutenant governor may
require state agencies to participate in the
use of consolidated space provided under this
section and may waive the requirement if
nonparticipation is in the best interests of
the state.
(b) In this section, "state agency" means
a department, board, commission, division,
authority, public corporation, or other
administrative unit of the executive branch
of state government.
* Sec. 4. AS 44.62.120 is amended to read:
Sec. 44.62.120. Voluntary submitting and
publication. With the approval of the lieutenant governor,
a state agency may submit to the lieutenant governor for
filing a regulation or order of repeal of a regulation not
required by AS 44.62.040 to be submitted. If the lieutenant
governor accepts the regulation or order of repeal, the
lieutenant governor shall endorse and file it as required in
AS 44.62.080, and may provide notice of [PUBLISH] the
regulation or order of repeal in the manner the lieutenant
governor considers proper."
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.
Page 3, line 24, through page 4, line 26:
Delete all material and insert:(a) At least
30 days before the adoption, amendment, or
repeal of a regulation, notice of the
proposed action shall be
(1) published in the newspaper of general
circulation or trade or industry publication that the state
agency prescribes and posted on [IN] the Alaska Online
Public Notice System [ALASKA ADMINISTRATIVE JOURNAL]; in the
discretion of the state agency giving the notice, the
requirement of publication in a newspaper or trade or
industry publication may be satisfied by using a combination
of publication and broadcasting; [WHEN BROADCASTING THE
NOTICE, AN AGENCY MAY USE AN ABBREVIATED FORM OF THE NOTICE
IF THE BROADCAST PROVIDES THE NAME AND DATE OF THE NEWSPAPER
OR TRADE OR INDUSTRY JOURNAL WHERE THE FULL TEXT OF THE
NOTICE CAN BE FOUND;]
(2) furnished [MAILED] to every
person who has filed a request for notice of
proposed action with the state agency;
(3) if the agency is within a department,
furnished [MAILED OR DELIVERED ] to the commissioner of the
department;
(4) when appropriate in the judgment of the
agency,
(A) furnished [MAILED] to a person or
group of persons who [WHOM] the agency believes is
interested in the proposed action; and
(B) provided [PUBLISHED] in the
additional form and manner the state
agency prescribes;
(5) furnished to the Department of Law
together with a copy of the proposed regulation, amendment,
or order of repeal for the department's use in preparing the
opinion required after adoption and before filing by
AS 44.62.060;
(6) furnished to all incumbent State of
Alaska legislators and the Legislative Affairs Agency;
(7) furnished to the standing committee of
each house of the legislature having legislative
jurisdiction over the subject matter treated by the
regulation under the Uniform Rules of the Alaska State
Legislature, together with a copy of the proposed
regulation, amendment, or order of repeal for the
committee's use in conducting the review authorized by
AS 24.05.182;
(8) furnished to the staff of the
Administrative Regulation Review Committee,
together with a copy of the proposed regulation, amendment,
or order of repeal and, if preparation of an appropriation
increase estimate is required by AS 44.62.195, a copy of
the estimate.
* Sec. 7. AS 44.62.190(c) is amended to read:
(c) The failure to furnish [MAIL] notice to a
person as provided in this section does not invalidate an
action taken by an agency under AS 44.62.180 - 44.62.290.
* Sec. 8. AS 44.62.200(a) is amended to read:
(a) The notice of proposed adoption, amendment,
or repeal of a regulation that is published under
AS 44.62.175 on the Alaska Online Public Notice System or is
provided under AS 44.62.190(a)(2) - (8) must include the
information described in (1) - (7) of this subsection. The
notice that is published in a newspaper of general
circulation or trade or industry publication or that is
broadcast must include the information described in (1),
(4), and (6) of this subsection. The information that must
be provided according to requirements set out in this
subsection is
(1) a statement of the time, place, and
nature of proceedings for adoption, amendment, or repeal of
the regulation;
(2) reference to the authority under which
the regulation is proposed and a reference to the
particular code section or other provisions of law that are
being implemented, interpreted, or made specific;
(3) an informative summary of the proposed
subject of agency action;
(4) other matters prescribed by a statute
applicable to the specific agency or to the specific
regulation or class of regulations;
(5) a summary of the fiscal information
required to be prepared under AS 44.62.195;
(6) a brief general description of the
proposed subject of agency action, how more detailed
information may be obtained, and the name of the agency
contact person;
(7) the reason for the proposed action, the
initial cost to the state agency of implementation, the
estimated annual costs to the state agency of
implementation, the name of the contact person for the state
agency, and the origin of the proposed action."
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.
Page 5, following line 23:
Insert a new bill section to read:
"* Sec. 12. AS 44.62.190(d) is repealed."
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.
MS. KREITZER explained that the amendment would allow the
lieutenant governor to use abbreviated public notices in
newspapers. Ms. Kreitzer provided the committee with examples of
abbreviated public notices. She commented that agencies can save
a lot of money by doing abbreviated public notices. The
amendment would clearly specify what has to be in the abbreviated
notice while leaving the lieutenant governor the flexibility to
allow agencies to use a larger notice format if necessary.
Number 0300
MS. KREITZER reviewed the sectional analysis of the amendment
included in the committee packet. She explained that the
amendment would change the title of the bill. The amendment
would also, in Section 3, allow the lieutenant governor to use
abbreviated printed notices. Section 4 amends the Administrative
Procedures Act in order to allow the lieutenant governor to
provide Internet notice of regulations. This change in Section 4
conforms with the rest of the bill and allows for abbreviated,
printed notices which direct interested parties to more detailed
Internet notices. Ms. Kreitzer acknowledged that there is some
misperception about the amendment in that [some believe] it would
take away all newspaper advertisement, which is not the case.
The amendment allows for newspaper advertisement.
MS. KREITZER continued with the sectional analysis of the
amendment and referred to the portion of the amendment that
affects page 3, line 24 through page 4, line 26. That portion
merely recognizes the advances in technology by changing the word
"mailed" to "furnished." The word "furnish" would allow one the
flexibility to furnish notice through the Internet or the mail.
Furthermore, the change of the word "published" to "provided"
would still allow one the ability to provide [the notice] by
publishing it. The language used in the law would merely be
broadened.
MS. KREITZER continued by referring to the portion of the
amendment which addresses Section 7. Section 7 conforms to
Article 4 of the Administrative Procedure Act. Here again, the
word "mail" is replaced with the word "furnish." Section 7(c) is
in reference to the failure to "furnish" notice. Section 8
amends the contents of public notices. This is the section which
the lieutenant governor would review in order to instruct the
departments with regard to what should be included in the
abbreviated notices. The abbreviated notices would include the
following:
(1) a statement of the time, place, and nature of
proceedings for adoption, amendment, or repeal of the
regulation; (current law)
(2) other matters prescribed by a statute applicable to
the specific agency or to the specific regulation or
class of regulations; (current law)
(3) a brief general description of the proposed subject
of agency action, how more detailed information may be
obtained, and the name of the agency contact person.
(new language)
MS. KREITZER pointed out that Section 12 is repealed by the
amendment. Therefore, AS 44.62.200(a)(7) replaces AS
44.62.190(d). She clarified that AS 44.62.200(a)(7) is AS
44.62.190(d). She further clarified that the language AS
44.62.190(d) is encompassed in AS 44.62.200(a)(7) of the
amendment.
Number 0567
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS noted that there is a lot of concern by
the publishers of the printed record that this amendment would do
away with the ability for newspapers to be able to sell
advertisements in order to have a printed record. She referred
to the title change encompassed in the amendment and expressed
concern with the word "giving". She was not sure that the word
"giving" means that published notices in magazines and so forth
could continue.
MS. KREITZER said that she was not sure why the word "giving" was
chosen by the drafter. She did not believe it would be
problematic to use the word "providing" or another word so long
as the intent remains.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS pointed out that it would be consistent
with the language in the amendment if the word "giving" was
changed to the word "publication." Representative Phillips so
moved that as an amendment to the amendment.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER commented that the word "publication" would
certainly limit it. He then pointed out that in the sectional
analysis of the amendment it says, in reference to the changes on
page 3, line 24 through page 4, line 26, that "It deletes
reference to a broadcast notice providing the name and date of
the publications where the full text of a public notice can be
found. If left in law, this section would defeat the purpose of
abbreviating public notices in newspapers or journals and
allowing for the increasing use of Internet capabilities." He
inquired as to why providing it [public notices] via broadcast
media would defeat the purpose of providing it in newspapers.
MS. KREITZER deferred to the Lieutenant Governor's office, which
may have a more ready answer.
CO-CHAIRMAN COWDERY asked if there was any opposition to the
amendment to the amendment. There being none, the amendment to
the amendment was adopted.
Number 0816
JOHN LINDBACK, Chief of Staff, Office of the Lieutenant Governor,
commented that HB 315 as introduced is a very simple bill. The
Alaska Administrative Journal has become a "creature of the
past." The subscribership of the journal has dropped from over
100, when Lieutenant Governor Ulmer took office, to nine because
the information is now available on the Internet. A new system,
the Online Public Notice System, was implemented last year and
has been very successful and popular. He indicated that it would
be a good idea for it to be a statutory requirement for agencies
to put their
notices in the Online Public Notice System.
MR. LINDBACK informed the committee that "we" [the Office of the
Lieutenant Governor] believe that the amendments proposed today
are problematic for the bill. These amendments are problematic
because the newspaper industry opposes it. This is known because
the Governor proposed these provisions in a bill in 1997 and the
newspaper industry hated it. He indicated that the newspaper
industry was so successful in opposing the 1997 bill that it did
not even receive a hearing. Mr. Lindback said, "We don't want to
see what is a very simple and necessary thing such as making
online notices a statutory requirement be killed by placing this
amendment on this bill. And we think that is what's going to
happen."
MR. LINDBACK related his belief that there is a way for agencies
to abbreviate their notices without this amendment, which the
Department of Transportation (DOT) has proven. The Department of
Transportation cleaned up its public notices that are printed in
the legal ads and saved a substantial amount of money; all
without changing the statute. He noted that other agencies could
and should follow suit. Mr. Lindback said, "We think that work
needs to be done with the newspaper industry to come up with
amendments that they feel comfortable with before this
legislation will be successful."
Number 1010
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER restated his question with regard to
whether the original bill deleted the possibility of using
broadcast media for these notices.
MR. LINDBACK commented that the subject of broadcast notices is
fairly recent. The legislature passed a bill in the early 1990s,
which allowed for the substitution of newspaper notice with
broadcast notice under certain conditions. For example, if there
was a hearing scheduled on a fish and game matter in rural Alaska
where there is no newspaper, those provisions [included in the
legislation passed in the early 1990s] would allow public notice
on the radio in that particular community. There are many public
notices that are only applicable to rural Alaska; however, these
notices are being published in urban newspapers because there is
no other place to do so. Mr. Lindback did not remember the old
bill doing that. However, Deborah Behr, Assistant Attorney
General in the Legislation & Regulations Section of the
Department of Law, compared the proposed amendment with the one
from 1997. Ms. Behr did not see any substantive difference
between the two.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked Mr. Lindback if the bill that was
filed altered the broadcast media provision.
MR. LINDBACK said that he did not think so. He recognized that
the agencies would like that flexibility to, under certain
limited circumstances, substitute a broadcast notice for the
requirement for a published notice.
Number 1138
MS. KREITZER said, in answer to Representative Porter's question,
that it does not do away with broadcast media. She pointed out
that the text being deleted by the amendment reads as follows:
"[WHEN BROADCASTING THE NOTICE, AN AGENCY MAY USE AN ABBREVIATED
FORM OF THE NOTICE IF THE BROADCAST PROVIDES THE NAME AND DATE OF
THE NEWSPAPER OR TRADE OR INDUSTRY JOURNAL WHERE THE FULL TEXT OF
THE NOTICE CAN BE FOUND;]". That language is being deleted
because there will no longer be full text of the notice. There
is no impact on the broadcast media and it was in the original
bill.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ recalled that DOT was used as an example
of an agency that made changes [to their public notices] without
statutory change.
MR. LINDBACK explained that DOT merely did a better job of
writing its legal notices and saved a lot of money. In further
response to Representative Brice, Mr. Lindback believes that some
other agencies may be attempting to do the same. Mr. Lindback
recalled that the newspaper industry had opposed this by making
an argument that by eliminating some of the requirements of what
must be included in an advertisement, the public would not
receive as much information as it would without changing the
statute. Mr. Lindback agreed. At the time, it was argued (in
rebuttal) that the public does not see the legal notices anyway
because they are in the back of the paper. Therefore, it was
felt that more prominent advertising of regulations was
appropriate. The [newspaper industry] could not be convinced of
that. Therefore, it was not included in this bill because "we"
[the Office of the Lieutenant Governor] did not want to fight
that battle this year.
Number 1241
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ inquired as to why Senator Leman is
championing this amendment. Furthermore, the Senate could have
done a title change with a two-thirds vote. What is the problem?
MS. KREITZER specified that Senator Leman is still championing
this [amendment] because it has not been done without statutory
change. Senator Leman has brought this idea forward before. She
agreed that the Senate could do a title change with a two-thirds
vote, but that was not desired as the first objective. In
response to Representative Porter, she said that there is not a
Senate Bill that is moving.
MR. LINDBACK informed the committee that there is a version in
Senate Judiciary.
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE inquired as to what happened the first time
that Senator Leman championed this.
MS. KREITZER related her belief that the newspaper industry
prevailed with some members. She did not know if that would
happen again as the state is in a different fiscal situation now.
From Senator Leman's perspective, it is a fiduciary
responsibility in that the bottom line of the state is important
not the bottom line of the newspaper industry. If [the state]
can save several hundred thousand dollars in legal
advertisements, as DOT did, and still provide the necessary
information to the public in a legal notice [then that should be
attempted]. She indicated the need to have several different
mediums as no one system is full-proof.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ commented that not much has changed in
the Senate recently. Unless there has been some seat change in
the Senate that would indicate the bill with the proposed
amendment would go through, Representative Berkowitz said he was
inclined to oppose the amendment as it would seem to be the death
of the bill.
MS. KREITZER reiterated the need for the state to save money
where possible.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked if Ms. Kreitzer had any reason to
believe that HB 315 would receive different committee referrals
than the Senate Bill did.
MS. KREITZER noted that House bills similar to Senate bills do
not always receive the same committee referrals in the Senate.
She said that she did not know.
Number 1456
MR. LINDBACK turned to the issue of cost. He informed the
committee that when these provisions were introduced as the
Governor's bill in 1997, the fiscal note was zero. The zero
fiscal note resulted from the agencies' belief that they would
advertise in a more prominent way not a cheaper way. By moving
advertisements out of the legal section and into the display ad,
nobody could confidently say that could really save money. The
agencies liked it at the time because the advertising would be
more prominent and receive fewer complaints from people about
regulations that they did not know were going to happen.
Therefore, he believes there is an argument with regard to
whether this amendment would truly save money.
MR. LINDBACK answered, in response to Chairman Cowdery, that he
did not know how much is being paid for these notices. In
further response to Chairman Cowdery, he cited the Anchorage
Daily News, the Fairbanks Daily Miner and the Juneau Empire as
the three newspapers that receive the most legal advertisements.
He estimated that 95 percent of the regulation packets coming
through the Office of the Lieutenant Governor come from the three
mentioned and probably in that order. With regard to discounts
for volume, Mr. Lindback said that he could not speak to that.
He did not recall that there were special deals for government.
CHAIRMAN COWDERY inquired as to why the media is not present when
this legislation impacts them.
Number 1575
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if there was any discussion with the
media on this amendment prior to this hearing.
MS. KREITZER said that the media is well aware of the amendment.
She noted that Senator Leman had related his fiduciary
responsibilities to the media.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER noted that he had received a call from John
Winters, Publisher of the Juneau Empire, before this hearing.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT moved that the committee adopt the amendment
[as amended].
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ objected. He commented, "If the Senate
wants to play with this, the Senate should play with it. But I'm
quite willing to vote on this bill as it moves through the
House."
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER informed the committee that he is inclined
to vote against the amendment as well. Although he appreciated
the intent of the amendment and couldn't say that he disagreed
with it, he indicated that the House would again take the heat.
He said, "Unless we know that this action is going to be of some
chance of success. For example, not get a [Senate] Judiciary
referral. Again, here we are taking the heat and guess who
escapes."
CHAIRMAN COWDERY reiterated his concern that the media is not
present, which he attributed to them not wanting to be on record.
Upon a roll call vote, Representative Cowdery voted in favor of
the adoption of the amendment [as amended] and Representatives
Porter, Phillips, Kott, Berkowitz and Joule voted against the
adoption of the amendment [as amended]. Representative Green was
not in attendance. Therefore, the amendment [as amended] failed
to be adopted with a vote of 1-5.
Number 1725
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS moved that the committee report HB 315
from committee with individual recommendations. There being no
objection, it was so ordered and HB 315 was reported from
committee.
HJR 48-ACCESS ACROSS UNITED STATES/CANADA BORDER
CHAIRMAN COWDERY announced that the next order of business before
the committee would be HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 48, Relating to
the free flow of people and the fair trade of goods and services
across the border between the United States and Canada.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS noted that various organizations such as
the Council of State Governments and the National Governor's
Association have tried to get this amendment to the federal
Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigration Responsibility Act of
1996. That act includes a provision which restricts the free
flow of people between Canada and the United States. This
resolution indicates that Alaska supports leaving those borders
open. She explained that HJR 48 is before the committee due to
the need for a change in the language in order to clarify the
intent of the resolution.
Number 1793
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS moved that the committee adopt the
following amendment:
Page 2, lines 15 to 17 are amended to read:
Be it resolved that the Alaska State
Legislature calls on the United States
Congress to Amend the Illegal Immigration
Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of
1996 to exempt [Canadian citizens] from the
requirements of sec. 110 of that act Canadian
citizens at land border crossing stations
along the Canadian-U.S. border; and be it
The amending elements of this section are
repeated in page 2, lines 24 and 25 and, page
2, lines 28 and 29.
There being no objection, it was so ordered and the amendment was
adopted.
Number 1804
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ moved to report HJR 48 as amended out of
committee with individual recommendations and the attached zero
fiscal note. There being no objection, it was so ordered and
CSHJR 48(RLS) was reported from committee.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Rules Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 3:42 p.m.
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