Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 106

04/27/2005 08:00 AM RULES


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
= SB 51 PUBLIC ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS
Moved HCS CSSB 51(RLS) Out of Committee
Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled
= HB 98 NONUNION PUBLIC EMPLOYEE SALARY & BENEFIT
Moved CSHB 98(RLS) Out of Committee
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
                 HOUSE RULES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                               
                         April 27, 2005                                                                                         
                           8:16 a.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Norman Rokeberg, Chair                                                                                           
Representative John Coghill, Vice Chair                                                                                         
Representative John Harris                                                                                                      
Representative Vic Kohring                                                                                                      
Representative Lesil McGuire                                                                                                    
Representative Ethan Berkowitz                                                                                                  
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 51(FIN)                                                                                                  
"An Act relating  to contracts for the provision  of state public                                                               
assistance  to certain  recipients  in the  state; providing  for                                                               
regional  public  assistance plans  and  programs  in the  state;                                                               
relating to grants for Alaska  Native family assistance programs;                                                               
relating to assignment  of child support by  Alaska Native family                                                               
assistance recipients;  relating to paternity  determinations and                                                               
genetic testing  involving recipients of assistance  under Alaska                                                               
Native  family   assistance  programs;   and  providing   for  an                                                               
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HCS CSSB 51(RLS) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 98                                                                                                               
"An  Act   relating  to  the   compensation  of   certain  public                                                               
officials,  officers, and  employees  not  covered by  collective                                                               
bargaining agreements; and providing for an effective date."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 98(RLS) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB  51                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: PUBLIC ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS                                                                                         
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
01/12/05       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/12/05       (S)       CRA, HES, FIN                                                                                          
01/26/05       (S)       CRA AT 1:30 PM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                          
01/26/05       (S)       Moved SB 51 Out of Committee                                                                           
01/26/05       (S)       MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                            
01/27/05       (S)       CRA RPT 4DP                                                                                            
01/27/05       (S)       DP: STEVENS G, WAGONER, KOOKESH, ELLIS                                                                 
02/07/05       (S)       HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
02/07/05       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/07/05       (S)       MINUTE(HES)                                                                                            
02/09/05       (S)       HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
02/09/05       (S)       Moved  SB  51 Out of Committee                                                                         
02/09/05       (S)       MINUTE(HES)                                                                                            
02/10/05       (S)       HES RPT 3DP 2NR                                                                                        
02/10/05       (S)       DP: DYSON, ELTON, OLSON                                                                                
02/10/05       (S)       NR: WILKEN, GREEN                                                                                      
02/25/05       (S)       FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                      
02/25/05       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/25/05       (S)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
03/01/05       (S)       FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                      
03/01/05       (S)       Moved CSSB  51(FIN) Out of Committee                                                                   
03/01/05       (S)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
03/02/05       (S)       FIN       RPT        CS              5DP                                                               
                         SAME TITLE                                                                                             
03/02/05       (S)       DP:   GREEN,   WILKEN,   OLSON,   DYSON,                                                               
                         STEDMAN                                                                                                
03/22/05       (S)       TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                     
03/22/05       (S)       VERSION: CSSB 51(FIN)                                                                                  
03/23/05       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/23/05       (H)       FIN                                                                                                    
04/18/05       (H)       FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
04/18/05       (H)       Moved Out of Committee                                                                                 
04/18/05       (H)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
04/19/05       (H)       FIN RPT 5DP 1DNP 3NR                                                                                   
04/19/05       (H)       DP: HAWKER, CROFT, MOSES, FOSTER,                                                                      
                         MEYER;                                                                                                 
04/19/05       (H)       DNP: KELLY;                                                                                            
04/19/05       (H)       NR: HOLM, WEYHRAUCH, CHENAULT;                                                                         
04/25/05       (H)       RLS AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 106                                                                             
04/25/05       (H)       <Bill Hearing Postponed to 4/27>                                                                       
04/27/05       (H)       RLS AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB  98                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: NONUNION PUBLIC EMPLOYEE SALARY & BENEFIT                                                                          
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
01/21/05       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/21/05       (H)       STA, FIN                                                                                               
02/17/05       (H)       STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106                                                                             
02/17/05       (H)       Moved CSHB 98(STA) Out of Committee                                                                    
02/17/05       (H)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
02/18/05       (H)       STA RPT CS(STA) 7NR                                                                                    
02/18/05       (H)       NR: GARDNER, LYNN, RAMRAS, GATTO,                                                                      
                         GRUENBERG, ELKINS, SEATON                                                                              
02/19/05       (H)       STA AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 106                                                                            
02/19/05       (H)       ELECTIONS                                                                                              
04/13/05       (H)       FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
04/13/05       (H)       Moved CSHB  98(STA) Out of Committee                                                                   
04/13/05       (H)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
04/14/05       (H)       FIN RPT CS(STA) 5DP 3NR                                                                                
04/14/05       (H)       DP:   MOSES,   KELLY,   FOSTER,   MEYER,                                                               
                         CHENAULT;                                                                                              
04/14/05       (H)       NR: HAWKER, HOLM, STOLTZE                                                                              
04/20/05       (H)       RLS AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 106                                                                             
04/20/05       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
04/20/05       (H)       MINUTE(RLS)                                                                                            
04/25/05       (H)       RLS AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 106                                                                             
04/25/05       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
04/25/05       (H)       MINUTE(RLS)                                                                                            
04/27/05       (H)       RLS AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SUE STANCLIFF, Staff                                                                                                            
to Representative Mike Kelly                                                                                                    
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented amendments to CSSB 51(FIN).                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ELLIE FITZJARRALD, Chief                                                                                                        
Policy & Program Development                                                                                                    
Division of Public Assistance                                                                                                   
Department of Health and Social Services                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  During discussion of CSSB 51(FIN), answered                                                                
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
STACIE KRALY, Senior Assistant Attorney General                                                                                 
Human Services Section                                                                                                          
Civil Division (Juneau)                                                                                                         
Department of Law                                                                                                               
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  During discussion of CSSB 51(FIN), answered                                                                
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MIKE TIBBLES, Deputy Commissioner                                                                                               
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Administration                                                                                                    
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:    During  discussion  of  HB  98,  answered                                                               
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR NORMAN  ROKEBERG called the House  Rules Standing Committee                                                             
meeting  to  order  at 8:16:10  AM.    Representatives  Rokeberg,                                                             
Coghill, Harris,  McGuire, Berkowitz,  and Kerttula  were present                                                               
at  the call  to order.   Representative  Kohring arrived  as the                                                               
meeting was in progress.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SB  51-PUBLIC ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:17:14 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG announced  that the first order  of business would                                                               
be CS FOR SENATE BILL NO.  51(FIN), "An Act relating to contracts                                                               
for  the   provision  of  state  public   assistance  to  certain                                                               
recipients   in  the   state;  providing   for  regional   public                                                               
assistance plans  and programs in  the state; relating  to grants                                                               
for  Alaska  Native  family   assistance  programs;  relating  to                                                               
assignment of  child support by  Alaska Native  family assistance                                                               
recipients;  relating  to  paternity determinations  and  genetic                                                               
testing involving  recipients of  assistance under  Alaska Native                                                               
family  assistance  programs;  and  providing  for  an  effective                                                               
date."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:17:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SUE STANCLIFF,  Staff to Representative Mike  Kelly, Alaska State                                                               
Legislature, explained that  the amendment labeled 24-GS1089\G.1,                                                               
Mischel,  4/19/05,  would  insert  language  that's  a  statutory                                                               
reference rather  than the language "tribal  assistance program".                                                               
She  characterized  this change  as  a  matter of  continuity  in                                                               
drafting.   The amendment  labeled GS1089\G.2,  Mischel, 4/22/05,                                                               
inserts  new  subsections  defining  "organization"  and  "Alaska                                                               
Native organization" with statutory references.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:19:11 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS  moved that  the committee  adopt Amendment                                                               
1, labeled 24-GS1089\G.1, Mischel, 4/19/05, which read:                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 17:                                                                                                           
          Delete "a tribal assistance program in this                                                                           
     state"                                                                                                                     
          Insert "an Alaska Native organization family                                                                          
     assistance program under AS 47.27.070"                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG objected for purposes of discussion.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:19:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS  noted that  he and  Representative Coghill                                                               
had the  opportunity to meet with  some of the Native  leaders of                                                               
Alaska.   One of the  issues discussed during  the aforementioned                                                               
meeting was the involvement of  the tribes in the decision making                                                               
[of the Native  organizations].  He inquired as  to the reasoning                                                               
behind the changes embodied in Amendment 1.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. STANCLIFF explained that the  federal government has approved                                                               
the tribal assistance  program.  The State of Alaska  has to have                                                               
a  federally approved  program  to administer  it,  which is  the                                                               
purpose  of  AS  47.27.070.   She  informed  the  committee  that                                                               
originally [the tribal assistance  program] was placed in statute                                                               
as a pilot program, and [this  legislation] will codify it due to                                                               
its  success.   Therefore,  [Amendment 1]  merely  refers to  the                                                               
organization  that  is  approved  by the  federal  government  to                                                               
administer this program.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:21:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HARRIS  surmised  then  that  the  aforementioned                                                               
issue wasn't  brought up  when the  legislation went  through the                                                               
Senate.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. STANCLIFF confirmed that to be the case.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HARRIS  related  his understanding  then  that  a                                                               
tribal assistance  program without a definition  doesn't meet the                                                               
federal criteria required to receive funds.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. STANCLIFF disagreed and related  the belief that the language                                                               
in the  legislation and  the program  meet the  federal criteria.                                                               
However, in  order to  have clarity  and continuity  with statute                                                               
the desire  is to replace  the language with  statutory language.                                                               
A similar  issue arose with  the Department of Health  and Social                                                               
Services  budget.   The  allocation for  the  Division of  Public                                                               
Assistance  appropriation used  the  language "tribal  assistance                                                               
program", which  wasn't defined  in statute  and thus  the budget                                                               
language was amended to be consistent with statute.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:22:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  asked if  the current language  of CSSB                                                               
51(FIN) is patterned after federal [law].                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  STANCLIFF related  her understanding  that it  isn't federal                                                               
language, but was drafted by the Department of Law.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:22:47 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ  highlighted   that  the  organizations                                                               
under AS 47.27.070  are essentially the regional  nonprofits.  He                                                               
asked  if there  are any  village  nonprofits or  other forms  of                                                               
tribal assistance programs.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. STANCLIFF  replied no,  and added that  [the federal  law] is                                                               
specific to the 13 [federally authorized tribal] organizations.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ  posed  a  situation in  which  the  13                                                               
regional  nonprofits   decided  to   create  a  new   program  to                                                               
coordinate efforts, which  he suggested wouldn't be  part of this                                                               
legislation under the proposed amendments.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. STANCLIFF  said that  she didn't know,  but pointed  out that                                                               
the  legislation sets up a regional provision.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:24:49 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ELLIE FITZJARRALD, Chief, Policy  & Program Development, Division                                                               
of Public  Assistance, Department of Health  and Social Services,                                                               
explained that  the federal law  - allows the 12  regional Native                                                               
nonprofit  organizations and  Metlakatla  Indian Association  the                                                               
option  to  run  temporary  assistance  programs.    The  federal                                                               
program refers to it as  the tribal temporary assistance programs                                                               
for needy  families.  Part of  the requirement is that  they must                                                               
have  a federally  approved tribal  temporary assistance  program                                                               
plan for needy families.   The [federal] law includes a provision                                                               
that  requires that  there  be a  comparable  program in  Alaska.                                                               
Therefore,  village  nonprofits   couldn't  apply,  operate,  and                                                               
receive  federal funds  directly, although  they may  be able  to                                                               
subcontract with an organization  and provide services similar to                                                               
the state.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:27:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
STACIE KRALY,  Senior Assistant Attorney General,  Human Services                                                               
Section, Civil Division (Juneau),  Department of Law, agreed with                                                               
Ms. Fitzjarrald.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:27:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA  asked if  the language in  CSSB 51(FIN),                                                               
without the proposed amendments, gets the money to the programs.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. FITZJARRALD replied yes.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:28:11 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  inquired as  to the  department's opinion  of the                                                               
amendments.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KRALY  said  that  the   department  doesn't  object.    The                                                               
[Department  of Law]  is neutral  with regard  to the  amendments                                                               
because they don't  change the legislation to a  point that there                                                               
would be concern with federal funding.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG expressed  interest  in doing  what's correct  in                                                               
terms  of  the statute  and  in  order  to avoid  any  unintended                                                               
consequences.  He  asked if Ms. Kraly had an  opinion with regard                                                               
to the drafting of the legislation.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. KRALY  concurred with  Ms. Fitzjarrald  that the  language in                                                               
CSSB 51(FIN) is sufficient.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:29:47 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG said that it seems  that there should be a correct                                                               
answer in this case or  perhaps either reference could be correct                                                               
depending upon the context.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. KRALY opined that both [references] could be correct.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:30:22 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  said that  he would agree  with Amendment                                                               
1.  However, he highlighted  that Alaska has been struggling with                                                               
regard to the legal definition of  "tribe".  He surmised that the                                                               
sponsor merely  wants to  clarify that this  refers to  an Alaska                                                               
Native  organization family  assistance program.   Representative                                                               
Coghill   opined  that   this   program   works,  provides   much                                                               
flexibility,  and allows  these organizations  to do  things that                                                               
the state can't do under its program.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:32:11 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ related  his  belief  that Amendment  1                                                               
brings up other  tribal issues.  He characterized  Amendment 1 as                                                               
an effort  by those who aren't  friendly to the notion  of tribal                                                               
sovereignty.  He  imagined that there will be  a battle regarding                                                               
whether [the language] is respectful  enough for the existence of                                                               
tribes.  He said that's a battle he didn't want to have.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:33:07 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG pointed out that  Amendment 1 wants to replace the                                                               
language "a  tribal assistance  program in  this state"  with the                                                               
language  "an   Alaska  Native  organization   family  assistance                                                               
program under  AS 47.27.070".  However,  page 3, line  16, refers                                                               
to "federal  tribal family assistance  plan".  He asked  if there                                                               
is a [federal] plan that uses the aforementioned language.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FITZJARRALD  nodded  yes.   She  then  explained  that  [the                                                               
provision on page  3, line 16] sets out that  in order to receive                                                               
an  Alaska  Native  family  assistance  program  grant  from  the                                                               
department, the organization must  have received federal approval                                                               
to  operate  a tribal  assistance  program  in  the state.    The                                                               
federal law  refers to it  as a tribal assistance  program, which                                                               
is  what  the  federal  government is  approving.    The  federal                                                               
program  doesn't  approve  an  Alaska  Native  family  assistance                                                               
program, which  is what the  department is responsible  for doing                                                               
"and this is  one of the contingencies."  In  further response to                                                               
Chair   Rokeberg,   Ms.   Fitzjarrald  specified   that   SB   51                                                               
reauthorizes and  codifies the  [Alaska Native  family assistance                                                               
program] in law.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL referred  to page  11, line  13, of  CSSB                                                               
51(FIN),  which  defines  the [Alaska  Native  family  assistance                                                               
grant] as such.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:36:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG indicated that the amendments seem appropriate.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:36:35 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HARRIS opined  that it  seems the  "Alaska Native                                                               
family  assistance program"  and  the  "tribal family  assistance                                                               
plan"  both need  federal approval.    He asked  if the  language                                                               
"federally approved  tribal family  assistance plan" on  page 11,                                                               
line 17, subparagraph (13), meets the federal plan.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. KRALY replied yes.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:39:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCGUIRE opined  that Amendment 1 does  make a good                                                               
point  in that  if the  desire is  to codify  a successful  pilot                                                               
program,  then  it  should  be  made clear  what  program  is  to                                                               
qualify.  Without the specific  definition, any tribal assistance                                                               
program in the  state could be operated in the  state.  The point                                                               
of the  legislation seems  to confine this  to the  newly created                                                               
Alaska Native organization family assistance program.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:41:12 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ addressed the  policy call and said that                                                               
when there  is an effort  to tie to existing  organizations under                                                               
AS  47.27.070,  it precludes  the  flexibility  from leaving  the                                                               
language open  if the federal  government might decide  to accept                                                               
other entities.   As  a technical matter,  there is  reference to                                                               
"Alaska   Native   organization   family   assistance   program".                                                               
Although the  aforementioned language exists in  AS 47.27.070, it                                                               
doesn't exist in  the context of page 3, line  17.  Therefore, it                                                               
seems that two terms are being  used, when the desire seems to be                                                               
to use one term.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL  agreed, and  opined  that  it should  be                                                               
"family assistance program".                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ  said  that  he wasn't  sure  which  it                                                               
should  be  because  the  existing   statute  refers  to  "Native                                                               
organization  family   assistance  program".     Hopefully,  such                                                               
inconsistencies  don't cause  a problem.   In  response to  Chair                                                               
Rokeberg,  Representative Berkowitz  clarified  that he  believes                                                               
the reference to AS 47.27.070 in Amendment 1 is limiting.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG   restated  Representative   Berkowitz's  earlier                                                               
question regarding  whether any  other organizations  can qualify                                                               
under this new statute if  they are not an organization specified                                                               
in AS 47.24.070.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:43:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KRALY  explained that  the  authorization  to provide  these                                                               
services  comes  from a  federal  statute;  the 13  organizations                                                               
authorized to administer this program  are set forth specifically                                                               
in federal law and set forth  in AS 47.24.070.  Therefore, unless                                                               
there is  a change in  the federal law authorizing  this program,                                                               
no other  entity in the state  could administer the program.   If                                                               
the federal government  amends its statute, then  the state would                                                               
also have to amend its statute to mirror the authorization.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:44:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ related  his  understanding that  under                                                               
CSSB  51(FIN)   [a  new  organization]  would   automatically  be                                                               
recognized and wouldn't require an amendment to AS 47.24.070.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG interjected  that the  aforementioned would  be a                                                               
strange construction because the  statute reference would have to                                                               
be replaced with U.S. code.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:46:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FITZJARRALD,   in  response  to   Representative  Berkowitz,                                                               
clarified that  under CSSB 51(FIN)  and current law  an amendment                                                               
would be required if the  federal government changed its law such                                                               
that  other   Native  organizations   could  run   tribal  family                                                               
assistance  programs.    In further  response  to  Representative                                                               
Berkowitz,  Ms. Fitzjarrald  confirmed  that Amendment  1 has  no                                                               
impact on the flexibility of the program.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:47:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG withdrew his objection.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ objected.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:48:01 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote  was taken.   Representatives  McGuire, Harris,                                                               
Coghill,   and  Rokeberg   voted   in  favor   of  Amendment   1.                                                               
Representatives  Berkowitz, Kerttula,  and Kohring  voted against                                                               
it.  Therefore, Amendment 1 was adopted by a vote of 4-3.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:48:39 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  moved that the committee  adopt Amendment                                                               
2, labeled 24-GS1089\G.2, Mischel, 4/22/05, which read:                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 9, following line 21:                                                                                                 
          Insert a new subsection to read:                                                                                      
          "(q)  In this section, "organization" means an                                                                        
     organization identified in AS 47.27.070(a)."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 11, following line 11:                                                                                                
          Insert a new subsection to read:                                                                                      
          "(g)      In    this   section,   "Alaska   Native                                                                    
     organization" or "organization" means an organization                                                                      
     identified in AS 47.27.070(a)."                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  objected.   He, again,  highlighted the                                                               
difference in terminology.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:49:17 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL referred  to the language on  page 3, line                                                               
13, which he believes provides enough consistency.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:49:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote  was taken.   Representatives  Harris, Coghill,                                                               
Kohring, McGuire,  and Rokeberg  voted in  favor of  Amendment 2.                                                               
Representatives   Berkowitz  and   Kerttula  voted   against  it.                                                               
Therefore, Amendment 2 was adopted by a vote of 5-2.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:50:05 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCGUIRE moved to  report CSSB 51(FIN), as amended,                                                               
out  of   committee  with  individual  recommendations   and  the                                                               
accompanying fiscal  notes.  There  being no objection,  HCS CSSB                                                               
51(RLS) was reported from the House Rules Standing Committee.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 8:51 a.m. to 9:02 a.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB  98-NONUNION PUBLIC EMPLOYEE SALARY & BENEFIT                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:03:04 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG announced  that the final order  of business would                                                               
be HOUSE  BILL NO. 98,  "An Act  relating to the  compensation of                                                               
certain public officials, officers,  and employees not covered by                                                               
collective bargaining agreements; and  providing for an effective                                                               
date."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:03:14 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL moved Amendment 1, labeled 24-GH1099\G.5,                                                                
Craver, 4/25/05, which read:                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, following line 3:                                                                                                  
          Insert a new bill section to read:                                                                                    
        "* Section 1.  AS 39.20.080(a) is amended to read:                                                                  
          (a)  The monthly salary of the head of each                                                                           
     principal  executive department  of  the  state is  not                                                                
     less than  Range 28  nor more than  Range 30  [EQUAL TO                                                                
     STEP   E,  RANGE   28]  of   the  salary   schedule  in                                                                    
     AS 39.27.011(a) for Juneau, Alaska."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 4:                                                                                                            
          Delete "Section 1"                                                                                                  
          Insert "Sec. 2"                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, lines 9 - 10:                                                                                                      
          Delete "sec. 1"                                                                                                       
          Insert "sec. 2"                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 10:                                                                                                           
          Delete "secs. 2 and 3"                                                                                                
          Insert "secs. 3 and 4"                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 19:                                                                                                           
          Delete "sec. 1"                                                                                                       
          Insert "sec. 2"                                                                                                       
          Delete "secs. 2 and 3"                                                                                                
          Insert "secs. 3 and 4"                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, lines 22 - 23:                                                                                                     
          Delete "secs. 1 - 3"                                                                                                  
     Insert "secs. 2 - 4"                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS objected for discussion purposes.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG announced that he  brought forward the discussions                                                               
on this  matter.  He  related his understanding that  Amendment 1                                                               
was offered, in  concept, by former Governor Tony  Knowles at the                                                               
end   of  his   last  administration.     He   opined  that   the                                                               
commissioners in the state are underpaid.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:03:49 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE TIBBLES,  Deputy Commissioner,  Office of  the Commissioner,                                                               
Department  of  Administration,  explained  that  the  salary  of                                                               
commissioners are unique  in that they are tied to  a range and a                                                               
step in  statute.  The  aforementioned results in a  situation in                                                               
which  directors  and  deputy commissioners,  through  longevity,                                                               
receive  a higher  salary than  commissioners.   Furthermore,  in                                                               
reviewing   the  Council   of   State  Government's   information                                                               
regarding  Western  [states],  Alaska doesn't  offer  competitive                                                               
salaries.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:04:55 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA  asked if Amendment  1 could result  in a                                                               
commissioner  starting  at a  lower  range,  and therefore  those                                                               
[commissioners] who  haven't already been in  state service could                                                               
receive  a  28A rather  than  a  28E.    She suggested  that  the                                                               
language should be "not less than step E Range 28".                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. TIBBLES  said he read  Amendment 1 to  allow the option  of a                                                               
the full  scale of Ranges  28-30 for the  commissioner, including                                                               
Range 28A.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   ROKEBERG  surmised   then   that   Amendment  1   creates                                                               
flexibility.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:06:14 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCGUIRE agreed that there  would be the desire for                                                               
more  discretion  on the  lower  end.   However,  she  questioned                                                               
whether on the upper end there  should be the sideboard of a step                                                               
E.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. TIBBLES  expressed concern with  placing a step with  a Range                                                               
30 because  it doesn't take  that long in  a Range 28  before one                                                               
equals a  Range 30A.   Therefore, as  one moves up,  he/she would                                                               
run  into  barriers,   even  at  a  different   step  because  an                                                               
equivalent can be calculated.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:07:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   COGHILL  said   that   due   to  the   four-year                                                               
gubernatorial   cycle,  commissioners   change  rather   rapidly.                                                               
Therefore, he said he didn't know whether it's a "big deal."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:07:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HARRIS  related  his  belief  that  the  governor                                                               
should  be the  highest  paid person  in  the state  bureaucracy,                                                               
higher than  the commissioners.   He inquired  as to  the highest                                                               
step in a Range 30.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. TIBBLES answered  that a Range 30M  is at the end  of the pay                                                               
schedule, which amounts to $117,000.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:08:49 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG referred  to a  handout in  the committee  packet                                                               
entitled "COMMISSIONERS",  which relates that under  CSHB 98(STA)                                                               
[Range  30M]  would  [increase]  to  $124,752  from  the  current                                                               
$117,000.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS  said that he  would have a  difficult time                                                               
with "having anything more than  whatever step and Range 30 would                                                               
be  ... $115,000  or  less."   He  reiterated  that the  governor                                                               
should have a higher salary than commissioners.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG   pointed  out   that  several   specialties  and                                                               
practitioners make more than [$115,000].                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS  highlighted that most  often commissioners                                                               
are political  appointees, not specialists.   He  reiterated that                                                               
he  has  difficulty  with  commissioners  making  more  than  the                                                               
governor.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  pointed out that Amendment  1 offers flexibility,                                                               
and  the commissioners  wouldn't necessarily  make more  than the                                                               
governor.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:10:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TIBBLES  provided  the  following   scenario.    Within  the                                                               
executive branch a number of  directors have been in place longer                                                               
than  the commissioners.   These  directors have  expertise in  a                                                               
certain  area and  are  a good  applicant pool  to  move up  when                                                               
vacancies occur.  However, at  the Range 26 director level, first                                                               
year  in longevity  at seven  years, the  individual is  at Range                                                               
28E,  which is  the current  salary for  the commissioner.   Caps                                                               
result in  the same situation that  exists now in which  the caps                                                               
become  barriers  to  [promoting]  those  already  in  the  state                                                               
system.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:11:37 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS  highlighted that people who  work with the                                                               
state  long  term  aren't  normally  subject  to  the  change  in                                                               
administrations, but  commissioners are.   Commissioners  have no                                                               
expected  longevity beyond  the  term of  the governor;  although                                                               
state employees expect longevity, if they do good job.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:12:39 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG  asked  if  a   division  director  can  also  be                                                               
terminated during the change of an administration.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. TIBBLES noted that although  division directors are partially                                                               
exempt,  they  are frequently  [terminated]  with  the change  of                                                               
administrations.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG referred to a  spreadsheet in the committee packet                                                               
[from CSG information]  regarding the 13 western states.   Of the                                                               
12 states,  excluding Alaska, listed, [the  salary for department                                                               
heads] in 10 of the states  is higher than the proposed salary of                                                               
$115,000 that's being proposed for  the governor.  Chair Rokeberg                                                               
said  that  he   is  in  support  of  Amendment   1  without  any                                                               
modifications.    He  indicated  the  need  to  have  competitive                                                               
salaries in order to recruit [qualified individuals].                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:14:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   KERTTULA  maintained   her  concern   with  [the                                                               
possibility of Amendment 1 allowing  a commissioner] to receive a                                                               
lower step than E.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:14:42 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL  commented   that  Representative  Harris                                                               
brings up a good point in  that commissioners are hired and fired                                                               
at will.   He opined that  the proposed range is  good.  However,                                                               
he  wasn't sure  about the  argument that  [the governor]  should                                                               
have a higher [range than  commissioners].  He indicated that the                                                               
governor  receives  a  "package"  beyond his  salary,  which  may                                                               
outweigh the actual dollar amount.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:15:54 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS withdrew his objection to Amendment 1.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
There being no further objection, Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:16:08 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL moved that the committee adopt Amendment                                                                 
2, labeled 24-GH1099\G.3, Craver, 4/21/05, which read:                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 1, following "compensation of":                                                                             
          Insert "the governor, the lieutenant governor,                                                                      
     and"                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, following line 3:                                                                                                  
          Insert new bill sections to read:                                                                                     
        "* Section 1.  AS 39.20.010(a) is amended to read:                                                                  
          Sec. 39.20.010.  Annual salary of governor.  (a)                                                                    
         The annual salary of the governor is $115,000                                                                      
     [$81,648].                                                                                                                 
        * Sec. 2.  AS 39.20.030(a) is amended to read:                                                                        
          Sec. 39.20.030.  Annual salary of lieutenant                                                                        
       governor.  (a) The annual salary of the lieutenant                                                                     
     governor is $100,000 [$76,188]."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 4:                                                                                                            
          Delete "Section 1"                                                                                                  
          Insert "Sec. 3"                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, following line 30:                                                                                                 
     Insert a new bill section to read:                                                                                         
      "*   Sec.   6.      AS 39.20.010(b),   39.20.010(c),                                                                  
     39.20.030(b), and 39.20.030(c) are repealed."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, lines 9 - 10:                                                                                                      
          Delete "sec. 1"                                                                                                       
          Insert "sec. 3"                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 10:                                                                                                           
          Delete "secs. 2 and 3"                                                                                                
          Insert "secs. 4 and 5"                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 19:                                                                                                           
          Delete "sec. 1"                                                                                                       
          Insert "sec. 3"                                                                                                       
          Delete "secs. 2 and 3"                                                                                                
          Insert "secs. 4 and 5"                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, lines 22 - 23:                                                                                                     
          Delete "secs. 1 - 3"                                                                                                  
          Insert "secs. 3 - 5"                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS objected.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:16:28 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG explained  that  Amendment 2  would increase  the                                                               
annual salary of  the governor to $115,000 and  the annual salary                                                               
of the lieutenant governor to $100,000.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:16:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  referred to an  attachment to Amendment  2, which                                                               
specified  the  language  of  AS   39.20.010,  AS  39.20.020,  AS                                                               
39.20.030,  and  AS  39.20.040.   He  highlighted  the  following                                                               
statute:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Sec.  39.20.020.   Date  of  entitlement of  governor's                                                                    
     salary.                                                                                                                    
     The  governor   is  entitled  to  receive   the  salary                                                                    
     established for  the office effective from  the date on                                                                    
     which the oath of office is taken by the governor.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Sec.  39.20.040.   Date  of  entitlement of  lieutenant                                                                    
     governor's salary.                                                                                                         
     The  lieutenant governor  is  entitled  to receive  the                                                                    
     salary established  for the  office effective  from the                                                                    
     date  on which  the  oath  of office  is  taken by  the                                                                    
     lieutenant governor.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  specified that the current  statutes specify that                                                               
the enactment  of any  increase to  the governor's  or lieutenant                                                               
governor's salary wouldn't  be impacted until the  swearing in of                                                               
the next  governor in December  2006.  Chair  Rokeberg reiterated                                                               
that he brought this issue forward  on his own accord, not at the                                                               
request  of the  governor.   In fact,  the governor  has said  he                                                               
doesn't need a raise, but acknowledged  that it might be good for                                                               
the next occupant of the position.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:18:24 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS moved to adopt  Amendment 1 to Amendment 2,                                                               
which  would increase  the governor's  salary from  "$115,000" to                                                           
"$130,000"  [on line  8  of the  Amendment 2].    Amendment 1  to                                                               
Amendment 2  would allow the  governor to  be paid more  than the                                                               
highest Range for a commissioner.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  objected for discussion  purposes.   He explained                                                               
that  one  of the  initial  reasons  for selecting  the  $115,000                                                               
salary  for the  governor  was  that of  the  13 western  states,                                                               
excluding Alaska,  the average compensation  for the  governor is                                                               
approximately $113,000.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:20:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HARRIS compared  the salary  of the  President of                                                               
the University of Alaska to that  of the governor.  The salary of                                                               
the  President  of  the University  of  Alaska  is  approximately                                                               
$250,000 annually.   However, the governor of the  state has more                                                               
responsibility than  the President  of the University  of Alaska,                                                               
and  therefore $130,000  isn't out  of range  for the  governor's                                                               
responsibilities.     Representative   Harris  opined   that  the                                                               
governor's  salary has  been unfairly  held down  for years.   He                                                               
reiterated that  the governor  shouldn't be  paid lower  than the                                                               
people who work for him, save those in specialty  positions.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  pointed out  that if Amendment  1 to  Amendment 2                                                               
was adopted, the Alaska governor in  2006 would be fifth from the                                                               
top  in  terms of  compensation  -  equivalent  to Wyoming.    He                                                               
commented that Amendment 1 to Amendment 2 isn't out of line.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:22:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCGUIRE   opined  that  she  liked   raising  the                                                               
governor's salary  to $130,000 because  the differential  is more                                                               
in  keeping with  the position.     She indicated  agreement with                                                               
Representative Harris  in that this wouldn't  benefit the current                                                               
governor.    Furthermore,  it's  time  to  raise  the  governor's                                                               
salary, she  opined.  She also  opined that she didn't  think the                                                               
governor's salary would be raised again for a long time.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:23:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG asked what other  benefits accrue to the Office of                                                               
the Governor in terms of expenses, housing, et cetera.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. TIBBLES said  that he isn't able to speak  to that.  However,                                                               
he highlighted that the salary  provided in statute is considered                                                               
complete compensation.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG  asked  if  the  governor  receives  any  expense                                                               
accounts or housing allowances.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:24:24 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HARRIS  related that  in  doing  the budget,  the                                                               
governor has funds available just  as the legislature does to pay                                                               
for its  members' travel.   He assumed  that the  governor didn't                                                               
have to  pay rent  to live  in the  mansion and  has access  to a                                                               
state  vehicle.     Representative   Harris  then   informed  the                                                               
committee  that  the  President   of  the  University  of  Alaska                                                               
receives a free car, a free house, and an expense account.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:25:14 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG requested  this  information  be provided  before                                                               
this  legislation  goes to  the  House  floor.   He  related  his                                                               
understanding  that  the governor  is  required  to live  in  the                                                               
mansion and receives some allowances and does pay some salaries.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG  maintained  his  objection  to  Amendment  1  to                                                               
Amendment 2.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:26:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote was  taken.  Representatives  Kerttula, Harris,                                                               
McGuire  voted   in  favor  of   Amendment  1  to   Amendment  2.                                                               
Representatives Coghill, Kohring, and  Rokeberg voted against it.                                                               
Therefore, Amendment 1 to Amendment 2 failed by a vote of 3-3.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 9:27 a.m. to 9:30 a.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:30:05 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS moved that  the committee adopt Amendment 2                                                               
to Amendment 2,  which would increase the  governor's salary from                                                               
"$115,000" to "$125,00" [on line 8 of Amendment 2].                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL objected.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:30:21 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote was  taken.  Representatives  Kerttula, Harris,                                                               
McGuire, and Rokeberg voted in  favor of Amendment 2 to Amendment                                                               
2.    Representatives  Coghill  and  Kohring  voted  against  it.                                                               
Therefore, Amendment  2 to Amendment 2  was adopted by a  vote of                                                               
4-2.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG announced that Amendment 2, as amended, is before                                                                
the committee.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
There being no objection, Amendment 2, as amended, was adopted.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:32:46 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL moved to  report CSHB 98(STA), as amended,                                                               
out  of   committee  with  individual  recommendations   and  the                                                               
accompanying  and  forthcoming  fiscal  notes.   There  being  no                                                               
objection,  CSHB  98(RLS)  was   reported  out  the  House  Rules                                                               
Standing Committee.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Rules Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 9:33:20 AM.                                                                 

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