Legislature(2003 - 2004)

05/10/2003 10:07 AM RLS

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
                 HOUSE RULES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                               
                          May 10, 2003                                                                                          
                           10:07 a.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Norman Rokeberg, Chair                                                                                           
Representative Pete Kott                                                                                                        
Representative John Coghill                                                                                                     
Representative Lesil McGuire                                                                                                    
Representative Carl Morgan                                                                                                      
Representative Ethan Berkowitz                                                                                                  
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 89(JUD) am                                                                                               
"An  Act  amending  the  Regulation   of  Lobbying  Act  and  the                                                               
definition  of  'lobbyist'  as  it applies  in  the  act  setting                                                               
standards of  conduct for legislators and  legislative employees;                                                               
and amending the  Regulation of Lobbying Act  and the legislative                                                               
standards of  conduct to allow  a lobbyist  to give and  a person                                                               
covered by legislative standards of  conduct to accept tickets to                                                               
a charity event during a legislative session."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HCS CSSB 89(RLS) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 142                                                                                                             
"An Act designating  the Department of Natural  Resources as lead                                                               
agency  for  resource  development  projects;  making  conforming                                                               
amendments; and providing for an effective date."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED SB 142 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 162                                                                                                              
"An  Act increasing  the fee  for a  state business  license; and                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 162(RLS) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 271                                                                                                              
"An Act levying and providing for the collection and                                                                            
administration of an excise tax on passenger vehicle rentals;                                                                   
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 271(FIN) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 89                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE:LOBBYING/LEGISLATIVE ETHICS                                                                                         
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) SEEKINS                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
02/28/03     0299       (S)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
02/28/03     0299       (S)        JUD                                                                                          
03/26/03                (S)        JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211                                                                     
03/26/03                (S)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
03/26/03                (S)        MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                  
03/31/03                (S)        JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211                                                                     
03/31/03                (S)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
03/31/03                (S)        MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                  
04/04/03                (S)        JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211                                                                     
04/04/03                (S)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
04/04/03                (S)        MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                  
04/23/03                (S)        JUD AT 1:00 PM BELTZ 211                                                                     
04/23/03                (S)        Moved CSSB 89(JUD) Out of                                                                    
                                   Committee                                                                                    
04/23/03                (S)        MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                  
04/24/03     0945       (S)        JUD RPT CS 1DP 2DNP 2NR NEW                                                                  
                                   TITLE                                                                                        
04/24/03     0946       (S)        DP: SEEKINS; DNP: ELLIS,                                                                     
                                   FRENCH;                                                                                      
04/24/03     0946       (S)        NR: THERRIAULT, OGAN                                                                         
04/24/03     0946       (S)        FN1: ZERO(ADM)                                                                               
05/02/03     1102       (S)        RULES TO CALENDAR 5/2/03                                                                     
05/02/03     1102       (S)        READ THE SECOND TIME                                                                         
05/02/03     1103       (S)        JUD CS ADOPTED Y17 N1 E1 A1                                                                  
05/02/03     1103       (S)        ADVANCED TO THIRD READING 5/3                                                                
                                   CALENDAR                                                                                     
05/03/03     1130       (S)        READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB
                                   89(JUD)                                                                                      
05/03/03     1130       (S)        RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 1                                                                    
                                   UNAN CONSENT                                                                                 
05/03/03     1132       (S)        AM NO 1 ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                 
05/03/03     1131       (S)        ...CHANGES TITLE OF                                                                          
                                   LEGISLATION                                                                                  
05/03/03     1132       (S)        AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD                                                                       
                                   READING                                                                                      
05/03/03     1133       (S)        PASSED Y14 N1 E5                                                                             
05/03/03     1133       (S)        ELTON NOTICE OF                                                                              
                                   RECONSIDERATION                                                                              
05/04/03     1147       (S)        RECONSIDERATION NOT TAKEN UP                                                                 
05/04/03     1148       (S)        TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                           
05/04/03     1148       (S)        VERSION: CSSB 89(JUD) AM                                                                     
05/05/03     1305       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
05/05/03     1305       (H)        RLS                                                                                          
05/09/03                (H)        RLS AT 9:30 AM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                
05/09/03                (H)        <Meeting Postponed to Sat.                                                                   
                                   5/10/03>                                                                                     
05/10/03                (H)        RLS AT 10:00 AM FAHRENKAMP                                                                   
                                   203                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 142                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:DNR LEAD RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS                                                                              
SPONSOR(S): RLS BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
03/12/03     0472       (S)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
03/12/03     0472       (S)        RES                                                                                          
03/12/03     0472       (S)        FN1: (DNR)                                                                                   
03/12/03     0472       (S)        GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                                                                
04/04/03                (S)        RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                 
04/04/03                (S)        <Bill Hearing Postponed to                                                                   
                                   4/9/03>                                                                                      
04/09/03                (S)        RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                 
04/09/03                (S)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
04/09/03                (S)        MINUTE(RES)                                                                                  
04/11/03                (S)        RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                 
04/11/03                (S)        Moved CSSB 142(RES) Out of                                                                   
                                   Committee                                                                                    
04/11/03                (S)        MINUTE(RES)                                                                                  
04/11/03                (S)        MINUTE(RES)                                                                                  
04/14/03     0833       (S)        RES RPT CS FORTHCOMING 4DP                                                                   
                                   1NR                                                                                          
04/14/03     0891       (S)        DP: OGAN, STEVENS B, WAGONER,                                                                
04/14/03     0891       (S)        DYSON; NR: ELTON                                                                             
04/14/03     0834       (S)        FN1: (DNR)                                                                                   
04/14/03     0834       (S)        FN2: ZERO(DEC)                                                                               
04/14/03     0834       (S)        FIN REFERRAL ADDED AFTER RES                                                                 
04/17/03     0891       (S)        RES CS RECEIVED SAME TITLE                                                                   
04/22/03                (S)        FIN AT 10:00 AM SENATE                                                                       
                                   FINANCE 532                                                                                  
04/22/03                (S)        Scheduled But Not Heard --                                                                   
                                   Time Change --                                                                               
04/30/03     1045       (S)        FIN RPT 5DP 2NR                                                                              
04/30/03     1045       (S)        DP: GREEN, WILKEN, TAYLOR,                                                                   
                                   BUNDE,                                                                                       
04/30/03     1045       (S)        STEVENS B; NR: HOFFMAN, OLSON                                                                
04/30/03     1045       (S)        FN1: (DNR)                                                                                   
04/30/03     1045       (S)        FN2: ZERO(DEC)                                                                               
04/30/03                (S)        FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE                                                                
                                   532                                                                                          
04/30/03                (S)        Moved Out of Committee                                                                       
                                   MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                  
05/02/03     1103       (S)        RULES TO CALENDAR 5/2/03                                                                     
05/02/03     1103       (S)        READ THE SECOND TIME                                                                         
05/02/03     1104       (S)        ADVANCED TO THIRD READING                                                                    
                                   UNAN CONSENT                                                                                 
05/02/03     1104       (S)        READ THE THIRD TIME SB 142                                                                   
05/02/03     1104       (S)        PASSED Y18 N- E1 A1                                                                          
05/02/03     1113       (S)        EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS                                                                    
                                   PASSAGE                                                                                      
05/02/03     1113       (S)        TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                           
05/02/03     1113       (S)        VERSION: SB 142                                                                              
05/05/03     1305       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
05/05/03     1305       (H)        RLS                                                                                          
05/09/03                (H)        RLS AT 9:30 AM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                
05/09/03                (H)        <Meeting Postponed to Sat.                                                                   
                                   5/10/03>                                                                                     
05/10/03     1536       (H)        RLS RPT 5DP 1AM                                                                              
05/10/03     1536       (H)        DP: MCGUIRE, KOTT, MORGAN,                                                                   
                                   COGHILL,                                                                                     
05/10/03     1536       (H)        ROKEBERG; AM: BERKOWITZ                                                                      
05/10/03     1537       (H)        FN1: ZERO(DNR)                                                                               
05/10/03     1537       (H)        FN2: ZERO(DEC)                                                                               
05/10/03     1537       (H)        RETURNED TO RLS COMMITTEE                                                                    
05/10/03                (H)        RLS AT 10:00 AM FAHRENKAMP                                                                   
                                   203                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 162                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:FEES: BUSINESS LICENSE & RECORDING                                                                                  
SPONSOR(S): RLS BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
03/05/03     0432       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
03/05/03     0432       (H)        L&C, FIN                                                                                     
03/05/03     0433       (H)        FN1: (CED)                                                                                   
03/05/03     0433       (H)        GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                                                                
03/12/03                (H)        L&C AT 4:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
03/12/03                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
03/12/03                (H)        MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                  
03/28/03                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
03/28/03                (H)        <Bill Hearing Postponed to                                                                   
                                   04/04/03                                                                                     
04/04/03                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
04/04/03                (H)        Moved CSHB 162(L&C) Out of                                                                   
                                   Committee                                                                                    
04/04/03                (H)        MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                  
04/08/03     0838       (H)        L&C RPT CS(L&C) 1DP 2DNP 3NR                                                                 
04/08/03     0838       (H)        DP: ANDERSON; DNP: CRAWFORD,                                                                 
04/08/03     0838       (H)        GUTTENBERG; NR: LYNN, GATTO,                                                                 
                                   DAHLSTROM                                                                                    
04/08/03     0839       (H)        FN1: (CED)                                                                                   
04/25/03                (H)        FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE                                                                 
                                   519                                                                                          
04/25/03                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
04/25/03                (H)        MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                  
05/05/03                (H)        FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE                                                                 
                                   519                                                                                          
05/05/03                (H)        Moved CSHB 162(FIN) Out of                                                                   
                                   Committee                                                                                    
05/05/03                (H)        MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                  
05/06/03     1347       (H)        FIN RPT CS(FIN) NT 3DP 1DNP                                                                  
                                   7NR                                                                                          
05/06/03     1347       (H)        DP: WHITAKER, FOSTER,                                                                        
                                   WILLIAMS;                                                                                    
05/06/03     1347       (H)        DNP: CROFT; NR: MEYER,                                                                       
                                   HAWKER, STOLTZE,                                                                             
05/06/03     1347       (H)        JOULE, MOSES, CHENAULT,                                                                      
                                   HARRIS                                                                                       
05/06/03     1347       (H)        FN2: ZERO(DNR)                                                                               
05/06/03     1347       (H)        FN3: (CED)                                                                                   
05/09/03                (H)        RLS AT 9:30 AM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                
05/09/03                (H)        <Meeting Postponed to Sat.                                                                   
                                   5/10/03>                                                                                     
05/10/03                (H)        RLS AT 10:00 AM FAHRENKAMP                                                                   
                                   203                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 271                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:PASSENGER/RECREATIONAL VEHICLE RENTAL TAX                                                                           
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)KOTT                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
04/15/03     0986       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
04/15/03     0986       (H)        W&M, FIN                                                                                     
04/22/03                (H)        W&M AT 7:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE                                                                 
                                   519                                                                                          
04/22/03                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
                                   MINUTE(W&M)                                                                                  
04/23/03                (H)        W&M AT 7:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE                                                                 
                                   519                                                                                          
04/23/03                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
                                   MINUTE(W&M)                                                                                  
04/24/03     1092       (H)        W&M RPT CS(W&M) NT 7DP 1DNP                                                                  
04/24/03     1092       (H)        DP: MOSES, HEINZE, WILSON,                                                                   
                                   WEYHRAUCH,                                                                                   
04/24/03     1092       (H)        GRUENBERG, WHITAKER, HAWKER;                                                                 
04/24/03     1092       (H)        DNP: KOHRING                                                                                 
04/24/03     1092       (H)        FN1: (REV)                                                                                   
04/24/03                (H)        W&M AT 7:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE                                                                 
                                   519                                                                                          
04/24/03                (H)        Moved CSHB 271(W&M) Out of                                                                   
                                   Committee                                                                                    
                                   MINUTE(W&M)                                                                                  
04/25/03                (H)        FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE                                                                 
                                   519                                                                                          
04/25/03                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
04/25/03                (H)        MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                  
05/07/03     1416       (H)        FIN RPT CS(FIN) NT 5DP 1DNP                                                                  
                                   3NR 1AM                                                                                      
05/07/03     1416       (H)        DP: MEYER, HAWKER, STOLTZE,                                                                  
                                   HARRIS,                                                                                      
05/07/03     1416       (H)        WILLIAMS; DNP: CROFT; NR:                                                                    
                                   CHENAULT,                                                                                    
05/07/03     1416       (H)        WHITAKER, FOSTER; AM: MOSES                                                                  
05/07/03     1417       (H)        FN2: (REV)                                                                                   
05/07/03                (H)        FIN AT 8:30 AM HOUSE FINANCE                                                                 
                                   519                                                                                          
05/07/03                (H)        Moved CSHB 271(FIN) Out of                                                                   
                                   Committee                                                                                    
05/07/03                (H)        MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                  
05/09/03                (H)        RLS AT 9:30 AM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                
05/09/03                (H)        <Meeting Postponed to Sat.                                                                   
                                   5/10/03>                                                                                     
05/10/03     1533       (H)        RLS RPT CS(FIN) NT 1DP 1DNP                                                                  
                                   2NR 2AM                                                                                      
05/10/03     1533       (H)        DP: KOTT; DNP: BERKOWITZ; NR:                                                                
                                   MORGAN,                                                                                      
05/10/03     1533       (H)        COGHILL; AM: MCGUIRE,                                                                        
                                   ROKEBERG                                                                                     
05/10/03     1534       (H)        FN2: (REV)                                                                                   
05/10/03     1534       (H)        RETURNED TO RLS COMMITTEE                                                                    
05/10/03                (H)        RLS AT 10:00 AM FAHRENKAMP                                                                   
                                   203                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR RALPH SEEKINS                                                                                                           
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke as the sponsor of SB 89.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PAM LaBOLLE, President                                                                                                          
Alaska State Chamber of Commerce                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  During the discussion of SB 89, she                                                                        
expressed the need for clear rules regarding lobbying                                                                           
requirements.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MARY SIROKY, Legislative Liaison                                                                                                
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Environmental Conservation;                                                                                       
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented SB 142, on behalf of the sponsor,                                                                
the House Rules Standing Committee by request of the governor.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
RICK URION, Director                                                                                                            
Division of Occupational Licensing                                                                                              
Department of Community & Economic Development                                                                                  
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions regarding the division's                                                                
fiscal note for HB 162.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
KRIS KNAUSS, Staff                                                                                                              
to Representative Pete Kott                                                                                                     
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented HB 271 on behalf of the sponsor,                                                                 
Representative Kott.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-4, SIDE A                                                                                                             
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR NORMAN  ROKEBERG called the House  Rules Standing Committee                                                             
meeting to order  at 10:07 a.m.   Representatives Rokeberg, Kott,                                                               
Coghill,  Morgan,  and Berkowitz  were  present  at the  call  to                                                               
order.    Representatives McGuire  and  Kerttula  arrived as  the                                                               
meeting was in progress.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SB  89-LOBBYING/LEGISLATIVE ETHICS                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG announced  that the first order  of business would                                                               
be  CS FOR  SENATE  BILL NO.  89(JUD) am,  "An  Act amending  the                                                               
Regulation of  Lobbying Act and  the definition of  'lobbyist' as                                                               
it  applies  in   the  act  setting  standards   of  conduct  for                                                               
legislators   and  legislative   employees;   and  amending   the                                                               
Regulation  of  Lobbying Act  and  the  legislative standards  of                                                               
conduct  to allow  a lobbyist  to give  and a  person covered  by                                                               
legislative standards of  conduct to accept tickets  to a charity                                                               
event during a legislative session."                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 024                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  moved to adopt  HCS CSSB 89,  Version 23-                                                               
LS0396\Q, Craver, 5/8/03, as the working document.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ objected for discussion purposes.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 035                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  RALPH SEEKINS,  Alaska State  Legislature, spoke  as the                                                               
sponsor  of SB  89.   He  pointed  out that  Version  Q adds  new                                                               
language on page 2, lines  25-26, which says, "except for tickets                                                               
to  a charity  event  described in  AS  24.60.080(c)(10)".   That                                                               
language  would allow  anyone, including  a lobbyist,  to sponsor                                                               
the  participation of  a  legislator  when the  money  goes to  a                                                               
charity.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG interjected,  except  for those  areas for  which                                                               
approval from legislative council must be obtained.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS agreed.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG highlighted  the  success of  the charity  events                                                               
developed  under  the  leadership  of  the  legislature  and  the                                                               
citizens of Juneau.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS  continued to review  the changes  encompassed in                                                               
Version Q.   He  directed attention  to the  language on  page 3,                                                               
lines 4-16, which specify what  an administrative action does not                                                               
include.  Therefore, the language  lists some activities that the                                                               
Alaska Public Offices Commission  (APOC) now believes constitutes                                                               
lobbying  under the  current statute  [and  specifies that  those                                                               
activites  aren't  considered  an  administrative  action].    He                                                               
emphasized  that the  activities  [listed] have  to  do with  the                                                               
normal course  of business with  public officials.   The language                                                               
added  in Section  3 was  part  of the  original legislation,  he                                                               
noted.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ removed his objection.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG announced that with  no further objection, Version                                                               
Q was before the committee.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 100                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS  remarked  that  when  he  attended  new  member                                                               
orientation,  he discovered  that he  had probably  been breaking                                                               
the lobbying laws by being an  active member of his local Chamber                                                               
of Commerce,  the Alaska Automobile Dealers  Association, as well                                                               
as  many  other associations.    He  emphasized  that he  was  in                                                               
violation of the lobbying laws and  didn't even know it.  He said                                                               
that as  a new member of  the legislature he wasn't  aware of the                                                               
four-hour  limit  because he  didn't  know  all the  regulations.                                                               
Furthermore, he  said he didn't believe  he was aware of  all the                                                               
regulations  under  the  current  definition  of  lobbying.    He                                                               
directed attention  to a February  11, 2003, letter from  APOC to                                                               
Brett  Huber,  Executive  Director, Kenai  River  Sports  Fishing                                                               
Association,  which is  included in  the committee  packet.   The                                                               
letter  says  that an  individual  receiving  a salary  [from  an                                                               
organization] while  talking with  public officials  is receiving                                                               
payment   to   lobby.     Senator   Seekins   characterized   the                                                               
aforementioned as  a "wide net"  that indicates  merely providing                                                               
public officials  with information  is one  way of  attempting to                                                               
influence a  legislative or administrative action.   Furthermore,                                                               
one doesn't  have to be successful  in an attempt to  a influence                                                               
legislative or  administrative action, the attempt  merely has to                                                               
be made.  Senator Seekins  related his belief that the definition                                                               
of lobbying shouldn't  make unknowing criminals and  thus he felt                                                               
there was the need  to be more clear.  He pointed  out that in AS                                                               
24.45.011, the  legislative declaration of purpose  specifies the                                                               
following:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     The legislature  finds and declares that  the operation                                                                    
     of responsible  representative democracy  requires that                                                                    
     the fullest  opportunity be afforded  to the  people to                                                                    
     petition   their   government   for  the   redress   of                                                                    
     grievances and to express  freely to individual members                                                                    
     of  the   legislature,  to   its  committees,   and  to                                                                    
     officials of  the executive  branch, their  opinions on                                                                    
     pending  legislation  or  administrative  actions;  and                                                                    
     that  the people  are entitled  to  know the  identity,                                                                    
     income, expenditures,  and activities of  those persons                                                                    
     who pay,  are paid or  reimbursed for expenses,  or who                                                                    
     make  expenditures or  other payments  in an  effort to                                                                    
     influence legislative or administrative action.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS  explained that this legislation  tries to define                                                               
a  true  lobbyist versus  a  citizen  trying to  express  his/her                                                               
opinion  on legislation.   Therefore,  this legislation  provides                                                               
more clear  definitions of the  activities of lobbyists  and what                                                               
it entails.  Rather than  redefining "regular" and "substantial",                                                               
this legislation specifies that if  one spends a little less than                                                               
25  percent  of a  40-hour  work  week  month talking  to  public                                                               
officials  he/she   would  have   to  register  as   a  lobbyist.                                                               
Therefore,  the legislature  through  statute would  set the  bar                                                               
rather than APOC.   Senator Seekins said he  would appreciate the                                                               
committee's  support in  getting  this legislation  to the  House                                                               
floor.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 161                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ   commented  that  he   didn't  believe                                                               
Senator Seekins' actions when he  was a new member were criminal.                                                               
Furthermore,  he   didn't  believe   APOC  believes   so  either.                                                               
Representative Berkowitz  said that  he has  a letter  from Tammy                                                               
Kempton,   Regulation   of    Lobbying,   APOC,   Department   of                                                               
Administration,   who   indicates   that   participating   in   a                                                               
legislative "fly-in"  doesn't constitute  a violation  of current                                                               
APOC  rules.    [The  letter] further  indicates  that  volunteer                                                               
lobbyists  and  sole  proprietors  aren't  breaking  APOC  rules.                                                               
Participating in  public proceedings or answering  questions from                                                               
a  legislator  directed  to  a  nonlegislator  aren't  considered                                                               
lobbying.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS  informed the  committee that  the letter  he has                                                               
was signed by [Tammy Kempton] as well.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA interjected that  [legislators] do have a                                                               
Fifth Amendment right.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS agreed  that  participating  in a  [legislative]                                                               
"fly-in"  doesn't   [constitute  a   violation],  but   what  the                                                               
individual  does after  arriving does  [constitute a  violation].                                                               
He explained  that if an  individual enters the  capitol building                                                               
and talks to  legislators in an attempt  to influence legislative                                                               
or  administrative action  as a  result of  a "fly-in",  then the                                                               
"clock is  ticking."    Therefore,  this legislation  attempts to                                                               
clarify  the definition  of  a lobbyist  in  statute rather  than                                                               
[continue] with the moving regulations of APOC.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 197                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ  said that  the  40-hour  rule in  this                                                               
legislation  seems excessive.   He  asked if  there had  been any                                                               
research  performed   regarding  how  many  of   those  currently                                                               
registered  as  lobbyists  would   continue  to  be  required  as                                                               
lobbyists under the 40-hour rule.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS  responded that  he didn't  know if  anyone could                                                               
answer Representative Berkowitz's question.   He opined that many                                                               
of those  currently listed on  the nonprofessional  lobbyist list                                                               
would probably  continue to  register.  In  fact, he  related his                                                               
belief that more  individuals would be required to  register as a                                                               
lobbyist.  He pointed out that  the current law specifies that an                                                               
individual who  communicates personally  or through an  agent for                                                               
four hours, that  individual has to be registered  as a lobbyist.                                                               
Therefore, an  individual who hires  a lobbyist  and communicates                                                               
through  that  lobbyist  for  four hours  would  be  required  to                                                               
register  as  a  lobbyist.     Senator  Seekins  said  that  this                                                               
legislation isn't attempting  to allow anyone who  truly tries to                                                               
influence  public  policy  as  part   of  his/her  job  to  avoid                                                               
[registering as  a lobbyist].  However,  the legislation attempts                                                               
not to incidentally catch people  who are trying to express their                                                               
opinions  freely  to  the legislature  and/or  public  officials.                                                               
Therefore, he didn't believe there  would be a large reduction in                                                               
the number [of registered lobbyists].                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 227                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  informed the committee that  112 people                                                               
have registered as  part-time employee lobbyists and  only two of                                                               
those are  from small businesses in  the state.  He  said that he                                                               
hasn't detected  a real problem.   Representative  Berkowitz said                                                               
he  would  like to  hear  from  professional lobbyists  regarding                                                               
whether they actually engage in  40 hours a month of face-to-face                                                               
legislative  contact to  the  legislator or  his/her  staff.   He                                                               
characterized 40 hours of face-to-face time as a lot.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS agreed  and  said those  people  engaging in  40                                                               
hours of  face-to-face legislative contact should  be registered.                                                               
Senator Seekins remarked that if the  real desire is to serve the                                                               
public  interest, then  the legislators  would  report with  whom                                                               
they have  spoken.   "Having someone  on a list  that no  one can                                                               
find hardly does a good job  in protecting the public interest in                                                               
who  we're   talking  too,"  he   said.    He   highlighted  that                                                               
[lobbyists]  don't  have to  report  what  legislation or  public                                                               
policy  he/she is  discussing.   [Lobbyists]  have  to pay  $100,                                                               
appear on  a list, and then  not be able to  participate fully in                                                               
the political process  in the rest of the state.   Therefore, the                                                               
barrier  should   be  reasonably  high  enough   to  capture  the                                                               
professional  lobbyist not  the  individual  with the  occasional                                                               
interest that  would amount to more  than four hours in  a 30-day                                                               
period.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 255                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   KERTTULA    turned   to   the    definition   of                                                               
"administrative action" on page 3 of  Version Q.  She asked if an                                                               
individual doing things  that don't fit into  the new definition,                                                               
even if  the individual  accumulated over 40  hours a  week would                                                               
have to register as a lobbyist.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS related his  understanding that an administrative                                                               
action  wouldn't include  those  things specified  on  page 3  of                                                               
Version Q.   He emphasized  that the aforementioned  only relates                                                               
to administrative  actions not  proposed legislation  or existing                                                               
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA  inquired as to  why the list  related to                                                               
administrative actions  is so broad.   She questioned  what would                                                               
remain to be considered an administrative action.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS directed attention to  Section 2(B) of Version Q.                                                               
He related that a number of years  ago he wanted to put a channel                                                               
in  with  a backwater  slough  and  a pond  at  his  home.   This                                                               
required dealing with  several state agencies in  order to obtain                                                               
the   permits  necessary   to   do  so.      Under  the   current                                                               
interpretation of the regulations  when an individual attempts to                                                               
influence an administrative action for  more than four hours that                                                               
individual has to  [register] as a lobbyist.   However, Version Q                                                               
allows an individual to speak  to someone regarding the issuance,                                                               
amendment,  or revocation  of a  permit, license,  or entitlement                                                               
for use  and not require  registering as a lobbyist.   Therefore,                                                               
an  individual who  goes to  APOC and  requests a  change in  the                                                               
regulations  regarding the  definition  of  lobbyist wouldn't  be                                                               
exempt.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA said  that she has never  heard the above                                                               
interpretation.   She agreed if  the above  interpretation occurs                                                               
it  would be  problematic.   However,  people have  the right  to                                                               
personally  represent  themselves in  regard  to  permits.   "The                                                               
broadness of this suggests that you  could have a lawyer that you                                                               
hire to  do these things  ... in a  broad way," she  pointed out.                                                               
She expressed concern with that.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  pointed out that  this particular  [Section 2(B)]                                                               
was included in Version Q at the request of APOC.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   BERKOWITZ    commented,   "I    understand   the                                                               
constraints   that  APOC   is   operating   under  these   days."                                                               
Representative   Berkowitz   said   although   Senator   Seekins'                                                               
interpretation  seems   to  be   strained,  it   is  problematic.                                                               
Therefore, he suggested that it could  be remedied if, on page 3,                                                               
line 8, before "use", the word "personal" could be inserted.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS  explained that  when he  represents some  of the                                                               
corporations  he  does  and  tries to  get  permits  or  licenses                                                               
issued,  amended, or  revoked  that  isn't personal  use.   As  a                                                               
business  owner, regardless  of  the structure  of his  business,                                                               
Senator Seekins said  he believes that other  forms of businesses                                                               
in the  state shouldn't be  restrained from operating  under this                                                               
exception.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 322                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  requested that Senator  Seekins provide                                                               
some  specific  examples in  which  businesses  have gotten  into                                                               
trouble due to the absence of the proposed provision.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS  answered  that  he  couldn't  provide  specific                                                               
examples.  "I  didn't think, Mr. Chairman, that  it was important                                                               
... that we  be able to point to examples  where the law ensnared                                                               
someone if the law or the  regulations was improper on its face,"                                                               
he  remarked.   Merely  because something  may  not be  enforced,                                                               
isn't a reason to have the regulation or law in place, he said.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ   said  that  the   normal  legislative                                                               
response  is that  when things  are changed  that aren't  broken,                                                               
unintended consequences are created.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS agreed, but related his  desire not to have a law                                                               
on the books that could allow selective enforcement.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 337                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG  related  his   understanding  that  one  of  the                                                               
problems is APOC's  regulations not the statute.   Chair Rokeberg                                                               
turned attention to a memo dated  May 7, 2003, from Brooke Miles,                                                               
Executive Director, APOC.  This  memo specifies that accompanying                                                               
the  governor on  a trade  mission;  playing golf  with a  public                                                               
official;  and  participating  in   a  legislative  "fly-in"  are                                                               
excluded.   However, he understood  that not  to be the  case, in                                                               
terms of APOC's past activities.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS  agreed.  He  said he was  aware of at  least one                                                               
instance in  which an individual  playing golf with  a legislator                                                               
was told that his time "had  expired" and thus he should register                                                               
as a lobbyist.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG said  that was of concern to him.   Chair Rokeberg                                                               
remarked that the  current law makes it  virtually impossible for                                                               
a legislator to have any friends.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 356                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ interpreted  Senator  Seekins to  think                                                               
that there  shouldn't be  any lobbying requirements  at all.   If                                                               
that's  not the  case, he  inquired as  to where  Senator Seekins                                                               
would draw the line.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS  said, "There's lots  of places I would  draw the                                                               
line.  And  that isn't what I  said."  He specified  that what he                                                               
said  was   that  the   net  is  too   large  today   because  it                                                               
inadvertently  draws people  into  it who  are  merely trying  to                                                               
exercise  their   free  opportunity   to  communicate   with  the                                                               
legislature  and the  administration.   Although Senator  Seekins                                                               
said he  wasn't sure where  the line  is, the current  barrier is                                                               
too  low,  he specified.    [The  proposal  in  Version Q]  is  a                                                               
reasonable  bar that  keeps  people  from inadvertently  stepping                                                               
over  the  line while  providing  legislators  guidance as  well.                                                               
Senator Seekins  said that he sees  people in the Capitol  who he                                                               
believes  may be  breaking the  regulations  now, although  these                                                               
individuals  are merely  trying  to relate  their feelings  about                                                               
legislation.   He  stated that  it's part  of his  job to  defend                                                               
their  right  to  freely  communicate  with  legislators.    This                                                               
legislation provides  the balance to  do so, without  letting the                                                               
professionals and  those employed  to lobby  to escape  [from the                                                               
rules].                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG  pointed  out that  the  committee  has  received                                                               
written testimony from Ms. Kempton,  APOC.  Ms. Kempton's written                                                               
testimony  specifies   that  APOC  supports  the   definition  of                                                               
"administrative  action" and  "communicate  directly"  in SB  89.                                                               
Furthermore, APOC  supports how SB  89 changes the  definition of                                                               
lobbyist to more  clearly define a professional  lobbyist as well                                                               
as changing the  definition of part-time or  employee lobbyist to                                                               
eliminate  the phrase  "substantial  or regular".   However,  Ms.                                                               
Kempton's written testimony specifies  that APOC opposes changing                                                               
the amount of time an employee can  lobby to 40 hours in a 30-day                                                               
period  and  proposes  changing  that  to  16  hours.    Per  Ms.                                                               
Kempton's  written testimony,  "At 16  hours, employee  lobbyists                                                               
would be allowed 62 15-minute  meetings per month; that's a total                                                               
of 64 hours  per legislative session; 248  15-minute meetings per                                                               
session."   Chair Rokeberg asked if  the aforementioned testimony                                                               
means that  anyone coming in through  the doors would have  to be                                                               
issued  a  time card  in  order  to  track  the time  spent  with                                                               
legislators and staff.   He suggested that this  almost makes the                                                               
case that the [current regulations] are constrained.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS commented that Chair  Rokeberg made a good point.                                                               
He  highlighted that  Ms. Kempton's  example is  based on  evenly                                                               
spacing every meeting  in each 30-day period, which  is a rolling                                                               
30-day period.   He said that he didn't know  anyone who can plan                                                               
his/her time in such a way.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG   surmised  that   when  [a  legislator]   has  a                                                               
conversation   with   someone   who  is   clearly   lobbying   on                                                               
legislation,  would that  individual have  to keep  track of  the                                                               
time spent  on the  specific issue versus  personal matters.   If                                                               
so,  it becomes  a  matter of  how one  calculates  the time,  he                                                               
supposed.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS  agreed and clarified  that the [time  limit] was                                                               
made a bit more  liberal so that one really has  to be a lobbyist                                                               
to reach the bar established.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ noted that he  didn't have a copy of the                                                               
earlier referenced February letter from Ms. Kempton.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS provided  the chair  with an  extra copy  of the                                                               
February letter from Ms. Kempton.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 431                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA directed attention  to page 4, Section 6,                                                               
and  although  she said  clarifying  the  law  is good,  she  was                                                               
concerned that  the charity  tickets may  entitle the  bearer "to                                                               
other gifts or services involved in  the charity event."  This is                                                               
of concern because  sometimes the gifts are large.   She asked if                                                               
gifts from a  charity event that are over a  certain amount would                                                               
have  to  be reported  to  the  Select Committee  on  Legislative                                                               
Ethics (Ethics).                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS said he would report  such a gift in order not to                                                               
run afoul of the Ethics rules.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG agreed  that a gift [from a  charity event] should                                                               
be  reported.   However, he  understood the  question to  be with                                                               
regard to whether the reporting of  [a gift from a charity event]                                                               
should be mandatory.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA  related  her  belief  that  legislators                                                               
can't take  a gift  [from a  charity event]  if the  gift's value                                                               
amounts to over $250.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR   SEEKINS  pointed   out   that   without  the   language                                                               
"Notwithstanding other  law" at the beginning  of this paragraph,                                                               
one would have to comply with the existing Ethics law.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG  opined  that   under  the  current  language,  a                                                               
legislator would be able to accept the gift.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ pointed out  the language "may entitle",                                                               
which   he  interpreted   to  mean   that   the  other   [Ethics]                                                               
requirements supercede these.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL  highlighted  that   the  ticket  to  the                                                               
charity event may only cost $1  while the prize could amount to a                                                               
$400 flight.   Therefore, the  question becomes whether  the $400                                                               
flight is  a gift or a  prize and whether [the  legislator] could                                                               
take it or not.  Under the  Ethics rules, the prize would have to                                                               
be reported  at least.   However,  he wasn't sure  that it  was a                                                               
direct gift.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 479                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
PAM LaBOLLE, President, Alaska State  Chamber of Commerce (ASCC),                                                               
informed the committee  that ASCC has worked very hard  to get SB
89 going  because the  lack of  a clear set  of rules  defining a                                                               
lobbyist  has been  problematic for  members of  ASCC.   She said                                                               
that most of the members of ASCC  don't want to be a lobbyist and                                                               
have  never intended  to  be  such.   However,  ASCC members,  as                                                               
frontline  business  people, know  that  they  are the  ones  who                                                               
should  provide  the  information   upon  which  legislators  and                                                               
administrators  make decisions.   Ms.  LaBolle related  that ASCC                                                               
didn't  have  any  problems  with the  existing  law  rather  the                                                               
problem was  with APOC's interpretation of  the law, specifically                                                               
saying that 2.3 percent of one's  job is a substantial portion of                                                               
an  individual's job.   Furthermore,  ASCC doesn't  concur APOC's                                                               
proposal of  with 16 hours,  9 percent  of a person's  job, being                                                               
considered a substantial portion of an individual's job.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. LaBOLLE commented on the differences  in what APOC says.  For                                                               
instance, ASCC's position paper dated  January 15, 2003, quotes a                                                               
letter  from APOC  to  one  of ASCC's  members  regarding a  golf                                                               
tournament.  She related that APOC said:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Note  that  the regulations  do  not  require that  the                                                                    
     activities  influence   legislative  or  administrative                                                                    
     action ....   It may have  been a social event,  but it                                                                    
     was certainly directed  towards influencing legislative                                                                    
     action.   By spending  time with legislators  and their                                                                    
     staffers, lobbyists  hope to  establish a  rapport with                                                                    
     them that will help the  lobbyists when they later meet                                                                    
     with  legislators and/or  staffers to  influence action                                                                    
     on legislation of interest to the lobbyists' clients.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ requested  that Ms.  LaBolle distribute                                                               
the  letter  if she  is  going  to  continue  to quote  from  it.                                                               
Representative  Berkowitz  said he  read  the  letter in  another                                                               
committee and he came to  a vastly different conclusion than what                                                               
Ms. LaBolle is inferring.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. LaBOLLE turned to the February  11, 2003, letter from APOC to                                                               
the  executive   director  of  the  Kenai   River  Sport  Fishing                                                               
Association.   She  pointed  out  that the  letter  says, "To  be                                                               
considered a volunteer lobbyist  and exempt from the registration                                                               
requirement, you would need to be  on leave from your job and pay                                                               
all your own  expenses."  The letter also says,  "In other words,                                                               
lobbying  is  not confined  to  working  towards the  passage  or                                                               
defeat  of  any  specific  piece of  legislation  or  regulation.                                                               
Lobbying  can be  educating public  officials so  that when  they                                                               
consider a particular issue or  legislative item, they include in                                                               
that consideration the information you  have provided."  She also                                                               
highlighted the  sentence in the  letter that says, "If,  as part                                                               
of your  job, you encourage  other people to  contact legislators                                                               
or other public officials, that is  also lobbying."  In regard to                                                               
this latter statement, Ms. LaBolle  asked if that would mean that                                                               
teachers  who   have  students   contact  legislators   would  be                                                               
considered  lobbyists.    Perhaps  that isn't  what  APOC  meant.                                                               
Therefore, Ms.  LaBolle said the  specifics should be put  in law                                                               
so that no one is guessing.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 528                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ  returned  to Ms.  LaBolle's  testimony                                                               
[regarding a  golf tournament] and  said that he  heard testimony                                                               
on that matter  in the [House State  Affairs Standing Committee].                                                               
He recalled that the letter referred  to a trip to Las Vegas that                                                               
was  paid  for by  an  individual.   This  had  to  do with  VECO                                                               
Corporation and  Mr. Rick Smith  being required to register  as a                                                               
lobbyist.   Representative  Berkowitz  related his  understanding                                                               
that APOC  said [in the  letter] that  lobbying has to  be viewed                                                               
not only on the event, but on  the duration and the extent of the                                                               
contact.   Given the circumstances  surrounding the trip  and Mr.                                                               
Smith's other contact  with legislators, he would  be required to                                                               
register.   Therefore, Representative  Berkowitz said  unless Ms.                                                               
LaBolle is referring  to a different incident,  he didn't believe                                                               
Ms. LaBolle is fully disclosing all the facts of the case.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. LaBOLLE said that she  recalled testifying in the House State                                                               
Affairs  Standing Committee,  but she  didn't recall  speaking to                                                               
this matter in that committee.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ  inquired  as  to how  many  of  ASCC's                                                               
members have been  in trouble with APOC.  He  also inquired as to                                                               
who those individuals are.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  LaBOLLE answered  that  although she  didn't  know how  many                                                               
people have  gotten into  trouble with  APOC, she  didn't believe                                                               
there have been many because APOC works on complaints.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  related his understanding,  from APOC's                                                               
testimony  in the  House State  Affairs Standing  Committee, that                                                               
APOC  has  only taken  actions  against  Frank Prewitt  and  Bill                                                               
Allen.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG  announced that  if  there  is already  a  public                                                               
record on this  testimony, then it isn't necessary  to rehash the                                                               
topic.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 560                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ highlighted that  this is the only House                                                               
committee  of  referral  for SB  89.    Representative  Berkowitz                                                               
turned  to  ASCC's  position paper,  included  in  the  committee                                                               
packet, and ascertained  that ASCC doesn't feel  that 2.3 percent                                                               
is a substantial portion of an individual's job.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  LaBOLLE  agreed.   In  further  response  to  Representative                                                               
Berkowitz,  Ms.  LaBolle  said  that she  didn't  feel  that  2.3                                                               
percent is a substantial portion of an individual's income.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ surmised then  that a 2.3 percent income                                                               
tax would be acceptable to Ms. LaBolle.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. LaBOLLE replied, "Personally, it would be."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG, upon  determining no one else  wished to testify,                                                               
closed public testimony.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ informed  the committee  that during  a                                                               
House State  Affairs Standing Committee hearing  the 16-hour rule                                                               
was  of  concern for  some,  including  members of  the  Majority                                                               
Caucus.   Representative Berkowitz  announced that he  objects to                                                               
this legislation.  He related that  he comes from a profession in                                                               
which  one avoids  the appearance  of impropriety.   Although  he                                                               
appreciated  the  First  Amendment   arguments  that  people  are                                                               
wrapping  themselves in,  that isn't  the  issue.   The issue  is                                                               
public trust  and the need to  preserve that public trust.   When                                                               
the  rules  are "cracked  open"  as  they  are  [in SB  89],  the                                                               
perception of impropriety is violated.   Therefore, this would be                                                               
a disservice  to the legislature's  public role.   Representative                                                               
Berkowitz said, "I think this is  a retreat from the high ethical                                                               
standards of  this house and from  the legislature.  And  I think                                                               
if there are particular problems  related to the agency question,                                                               
we should  address those narrowly,  but, in essence,  gutting the                                                               
lobbying requirements,  which is the  consequence of going  to 40                                                               
hours, is a step in the wrong direction."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG pointed  out that the committee  packet includes a                                                               
letter from Andree McLeod.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL   contrasted  Representative  Berkowitz's                                                               
remarks  by highlighting  the  danger of  gutting  the rights  of                                                               
people to freely talk with legislators.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-4, SIDE B                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  explained that [the rules  should be such                                                               
that] when a person is a  paid lobbyist, there is the opportunity                                                               
to make  sure that  is clearly  what is  being done.   Obviously,                                                               
there have been  some gray areas and  thus Representative Coghill                                                               
applauded  this  effort.    Representative  Coghill  related  his                                                               
belief that this is merely drawing a brighter line.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 590                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL moved  to report HCS CSSB  89, Version 23-                                                               
LS0396\Q,  Craver,  5/8/03,  out  of  committee  with  individual                                                               
recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ objected.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA  related her  belief that four  hours [of                                                               
contact with  a legislator] is a  minimal amount.  She  said that                                                               
[this  current  law]  doesn't  stop anyone  from  coming  in  and                                                               
speaking  with   legislators  on  their  own   behalf  when  that                                                               
individual isn't  paid to do  so.  By  going to 40  hours, things                                                               
will  be greatly  confused and  [the requirement]  will eliminate                                                               
the need  for 111 people to  register as a lobbyist.   Therefore,                                                               
Representative  Kerttula said  she  feels this  legislation is  a                                                               
step in the wrong direction.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG remarked that the  current four-hour regulation is                                                               
an  imposition on  the freedom  of speech  of all  people in  the                                                               
state.   The paramount issue to  keep in mind is  to allow people                                                               
to  be able  to  communicate with  their representatives  without                                                               
feeling the  constraint of any  possible action against  them, he                                                               
related.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 569                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  McGUIRE  highlighted  that under  current  law  a                                                               
public employee  isn't required to  register.  However,  a public                                                               
employee in this  state has unfettered access  to the legislature                                                               
and  the  administration  and  isn't   required  to  report  that                                                               
activity under  any circumstance.  Representative  McGuire opined                                                               
that what's critical about this  legislation is that one is being                                                               
required  to report  to  a government  agency  regarding who  the                                                               
individual is  talking to and  with regard  to the subject.   The                                                               
aforementioned  is  where  the   First  Amendment  issue  enters.                                                               
Without ASCC members  testifying on issues, she  wondered how the                                                               
legislation would actually  end up.  She  mentioned that everyone                                                               
has seen  legislation in committee  and hasn't thought  about how                                                               
the  legislation  would  impact   real  people.    Representative                                                               
McGuire emphasized,  "It's about your government  keeping tabs on                                                               
your speech.  ... and at  the same time stacking the deck against                                                               
you,  allowing  their [departmental  staff]  agents  to speak  as                                                               
often as they want ... about whatever topic they want."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ clarified  that public  individuals can                                                               
only  address public  issues/interests; it  isn't an  open slate.                                                               
Private  interests  are  separate.   With  regard  to  the  First                                                               
Amendment  argument, Representative  Berkowitz  pointed out  that                                                               
it's   subject   to   reasonable,   time,   place,   and   manner                                                               
restrictions.   The aforementioned is  the heart of  this debate,                                                               
he said.  Letting people know  who is addressing government - who                                                               
has financial stakes  in government - is a critical  point.  With                                                               
the state's current fiscal gap there  will be the need for people                                                               
to contribute  to the cost  of government.  In  this transitional                                                               
period it's particularly important for  the public to know who is                                                               
talking to  the legislators.   The only  way [for the  public] to                                                               
know who  is talking to  legislators is if those  individuals are                                                               
required  to register  as lobbyists.   Most  who are  required to                                                               
register as lobbyists are people who  are willing to stand up for                                                               
their  causes and  subject themselves  to  some public  scrutiny.                                                               
Representative Berkowitz emphasized that  he didn't see requiring                                                               
lobbyists to  register as such  as an  onerous burden.   "I think                                                               
it's in  the best interest of  the public as part  of transparent                                                               
government, and  I think that's what  all of this is  about.  How                                                               
transparent do we want our government to be," he said.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE  said she didn't disagree  with the points                                                               
made  by Representative  Berkowitz.   However,  she informed  the                                                               
committee  that she  has spent  time  in her  office with  public                                                               
employees during which other items  have been discussed, not just                                                               
those  related   to  the  public   interest.    On   that  point,                                                               
Representative McGuire  disagreed with  Representative Berkowitz.                                                               
Representative McGuire  opined that the  real goal is to  be able                                                               
to use this as a weapon against  people.  She said if she had any                                                               
confidence that  this regulation  was being acted  on in  a fair,                                                               
responsible,  efficient  manner  and was  working,  then  perhaps                                                               
there  wouldn't be  a need  for this  legislation.   However, the                                                               
four-hour  regulation   isn't  working  and  is   being  enforced                                                               
arbitrarily.   She related  that the  executive director  of APOC                                                               
agrees that the four-hour regulation doesn't work.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 507                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL restated  his motion  to report  HCS CSSB
89, Version  23-LS0396\Q, Craver,  5/8/03, out of  committee with                                                               
individual  recommendations  and  the  accompanying  zero  fiscal                                                               
note.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
A  roll call  vote  was taken.    Representatives Kott,  Coghill,                                                               
McGuire, Morgan,  and Rokeberg  voted in  favor of  reporting HCS                                                               
CSSB  89, Version  Q, from  committee.   Representatives Kerttula                                                               
and Berkowitz voted against it.   Therefore, HCS CSSB 89(RLS) was                                                               
reported out of  the House Rules Standing Committee by  a vote of                                                               
5-2.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SB 142-DNR LEAD RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  announced that the  next order of  business would                                                               
be SENATE  BILL NO.  142, "An Act  designating the  Department of                                                               
Natural  Resources  as  lead   agency  for  resource  development                                                               
projects;  making conforming  amendments;  and  providing for  an                                                               
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 494                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MARY  SIROKY, Legislative  Liaison, Office  of the  Commissioner,                                                               
Department  of Environmental  Conservation  (DEC); Department  of                                                               
Natural Resources  (DNR), noted that Commissioner  Thomas Irwin's                                                               
testimony  should  be included  in  the  committee packet.    Ms.                                                               
Siroky explained  that SB 142  establishes the Office  of Project                                                               
Management and Permitting.  This  office will coordinate with DNR                                                               
to  build  upon  the  state   mine  permit  team  concept  that's                                                               
currently  in  statute.    This  is  where  DNR  coordinates  the                                                               
activities of the permitting agencies.   Ms. Siroky said that [he                                                               
state mine  permit team concept]  has been a very  successful way                                                               
of doing  business, in terms  of Fort  Knox.  This  [concept] has                                                               
been used  at Alpine  and Fort  Thompson as  well as  other large                                                               
mine  projects.   Ms. Siroky  clarified  that this  [legislation]                                                               
wouldn't  change DEC's  statutory or  regulatory requirements  or                                                               
authorities.   Section 4  repeals the  Environmental Coordination                                                               
Act, which  hasn't been used  by the administration since  it was                                                               
put into place.  Sections 2 and 3 maintain DEC's appeal process.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG clarified  that SB  142, Version  23-GS1070\A, is                                                               
the version that passed the Senate and is before the committee.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SIROKY   explained  that   the  Senate   Resources  Standing                                                               
Committee had  added a  sunset provision,  which included  all of                                                               
the Environmental Coordination Act language.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 469                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA asked  whether  DNR  really needed  this                                                               
statutory change.   She  asked if  a memorandum  of understanding                                                               
(MOU) could  be utilized.   Also,  she understood  DNR to  be the                                                               
lead agency for mining permits.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SIROKY  noted  that the  mining  statute  responsibility  is                                                               
currently in statute.  This  legislation would put in statute the                                                               
process  that  has been  working  very  well for  10-plus  years.                                                               
Although  she agreed  that the  administration  doesn't need  for                                                               
this  process  to  be  in statute  for  coordination  to  happen,                                                               
placing it in  statute does ensure that this  good idea continues                                                               
in perpetuity.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA turned attention  to page 2, lines 23-24,                                                               
which  says, "lead  and coordinate  all matters  relating to  the                                                           
state's   review  and   authorization  of   resource  development                                                           
projects."   "That's literally everything,"  she said.   She said                                                           
she  understood that  could  be  more than  just  DEC or  [Alaska                                                               
Department of Fish & Game] matters.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. SIROKY  related her  understanding that  people will  come to                                                               
this new  office in DNR and  ask for these services.   Therefore,                                                               
it will be an applicant's  choice to participate in this process.                                                               
The  applicants,  she  believes, will  pay  through  reimbursable                                                               
services  agreements  (RSAs) for  the  services  that the  agency                                                               
provides.   The assumption  is that [this  process] will  be used                                                               
for larger projects.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 447                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL pointed  out  that  the permissive  "may"                                                               
language indicates  that [this  process] would  have to  be dealt                                                               
with in an agreement.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. SIROKY agreed.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ  expressed the  need  to  be sure  that                                                               
because it's relating to the  state's review and authorization of                                                               
resource development  projects it  wouldn't be  inconsistent with                                                               
allowing court review.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. SIROKY  replied that there  has been no such  indication from                                                               
any of the attorneys general that have reviewed this.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ turned  to the  repealers, specifically                                                               
AS  46.35   regarding  permit  coordination  and   extension  and                                                               
inquired as to  why that was being eliminated if  DNR has already                                                               
been designated as the lead agency.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SIROKY explained  that it's  a statute  that the  department                                                               
never  used.    That  statute   directs  DEC  to  coordinate  and                                                               
establish  a  permit  information  office.    The  aforementioned                                                               
office was followed by the  Alaska Coastal Management Program and                                                               
the   establishment    of   the   [Division    of]   Governmental                                                               
Coordination,  which  ended  up  doing all  of  the  coordination                                                               
functions.   Therefore, [AS 46.35]  was never really used  by the                                                               
agency in any type of coordination  fashion and thus it's a relic                                                               
for which there is no use.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ  pointed out  that  AS  46.35.010 is  a                                                               
legislative   determination  that   says   permits  and   related                                                               
documents are undesirable  and should be [eliminated].   He asked                                                               
if the desire is to make permitting more difficult.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. SIROKY  replied no.   The  legislation eliminates  the entire                                                               
chapter, AS  46.35, because it  hasn't been used.   Although some                                                               
of the  language speaks  to how the  agencies should  behave, the                                                               
language isn't necessary to continue with the regulatory reform.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ pointed  out that  AS 46.35.020  is the                                                               
purpose,  AS  46.35.030  is  the   master  applications,  and  AS                                                               
46.35.040 deals with public hearings.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG  reiterated  that  the entire  chapter  is  being                                                               
deleted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  acknowledged that and pointed  out that                                                               
there is no replacement for it.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. SIROKY  clarified that the  chapter has been replaced  by the                                                               
Alaska Coastal Management Act.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 398                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA  agreed,   but  highlighted  that  other                                                               
legislation  in  the  system  will  leave  a  void  in  terms  of                                                               
coordination.  Therefore, there is  some confusion with regard to                                                               
how  the  lead  agency  [concept]   will  work.    She  said  she                                                               
understood that some [of the  lead agency concept] will be picked                                                               
up in  regulations, which is  cause for some concern  because the                                                               
legislature  doesn't   draft  those.     Representative  Kerttula                                                               
specified that  this master  application was  used only  once and                                                               
was unsuccessful.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  asked if the public  hearing portion of                                                               
the chapter being eliminated is being maintained elsewhere.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. SIROKY replied  yes.  All of the  public hearing requirements                                                               
are  available  in  other  statutes   for  both  agencies.    The                                                               
department  saved  and moved  two  sections  regarding an  appeal                                                               
process that the department developed in regulation.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   BERKOWITZ  drew   attention  to   AS  41.17.085,                                                               
regarding  permit applications  under  the  Forest Resources  and                                                               
Practices [Act] ("Forest Practices Act").                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SIROKY related  her belief  that is  being addressed  in the                                                               
Forest Practices  Act and thus  is likely why it's  being deleted                                                               
here.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 370                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE  moved to report  SB 142 out  of committee                                                               
with individual recommendations and  the accompanying zero fiscal                                                               
notes.  There being no objection, it was so ordered.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HB 162-FEES: BUSINESS LICENSE & RECORDING                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  announced that the  next order of  business would                                                               
be HOUSE  BILL NO. 162,  "An Act increasing  the fee for  a state                                                               
business license; and providing for an effective date."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 358                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT  moved that the committee  adopt Amendment 1,                                                               
which reads as follows:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, lines 7-14:                                                                                                        
          Delete all material and insert:                                                                                       
            "(a) The [LICENSE] fee for each business                                                                            
     license is $100 [$25] per year, except that the fee is                                                         
     $50 if                                                                                                                 
            (1)    the    business   is    a    sole                                                                        
     proprietorship; and                                                                                                    
                    (2) the sole proprietor is 65 years of                                                                  
     age or older  when the sole proprietor  applies for the                                                                
     license  or will  reach 64  years  of age  at any  time                                                                
     during the year for which the license is issued.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT  explained that  Amendment 1 would  lower the                                                               
proposed fee  for a business license  from $300 a year  to $100 a                                                               
year.    Therefore,  this increase  would  be  equitable  because                                                               
business  license   fees  would   be  increased  for   both  sole                                                               
proprietors  and  any  other partnerships  or  corporations  that                                                               
would  be licensed  under the  chapter.   Furthermore, increasing                                                               
the business license from the existing  $25 to $300 a year is too                                                               
much of an increase.  Amendment  1 also provides a provision that                                                               
those 65  years of age  or older would  pay $50 for  the business                                                               
license.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 338                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE inquired as  to the difference Amendment 1                                                               
will make regarding the revenues captured.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT  acknowledged  that   under  Amendment  1  a                                                               
smaller  amount of  revenue  would be  generated  than under  the                                                               
current legislation.   He indicated that a  document, included in                                                               
the committee packet,  specified the difference in  the amount of                                                               
revenue generated  by a $100  business license fee versus  a $300                                                               
fee.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  McGUIRE remarked  that  she  believes the  senior                                                               
business owner provision  is a good idea.   However, she inquired                                                               
as to why there isn't an exemption for younger business owners.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT   remarked  that  such  an   idea  could  be                                                               
entertained.    He explained  that  he  had included  the  senior                                                               
business  owner  exemption  due   to  the  possible  disadvantage                                                               
seniors face  in various areas.   He related his belief  that the                                                               
younger business owners would have  a greater earning opportunity                                                               
than those 65 or over.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE  said she  didn't disagree.   However, she                                                               
said she believes  the current $25 business  license, albeit low,                                                               
has encouraged people to take risks.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG clarified  that Amendment 1 would  change the $300                                                               
business license fee  in HB 162 to $100 for  everyone and provide                                                               
seniors with an  additional break in that  their business license                                                               
fee would  be $50.  Chair  Rokeberg noted that he  will request a                                                               
new fiscal note if Amendment 1 passes.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 288                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
RICK  URION,   Director,  Division  of   Occupational  Licensing,                                                               
Department of Community &  Economic Development (DCED), explained                                                               
that a new  fiscal note from the division would  show a change in                                                               
revenue  of about  $4.2  million.   He  clarified  that the  $4.2                                                               
million includes a  drop-out rate.  A $100  business license fee,                                                               
with no  drop-outs would result in  a change in revenue  of about                                                               
$5.2 million.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT  related  his understanding  then  that  Mr.                                                               
Urion's  original analysis  for a  business license  fee of  $300                                                               
considered drop-outs.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  URION  answered   that  a  25  percent   drop-out  rate  was                                                               
considered at the $100 level for sole proprietorships.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ  inquired  as  to  the  fees  in  other                                                               
states.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  URION responded  that most  business license  fees in  other                                                               
states are higher than Alaska.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 267                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVES  KOTT,  BERKOWITZ,  and   ROKEBERG  all  noted  a                                                               
conflict of interest due to owning various types of businesses.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  reminded the committee  that the motion  to adopt                                                               
Amendment 1 was  before the committee. There  being no objection,                                                               
Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 253                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  moved to report CSHB  162(FIN) as amended                                                               
out  of   committee  with  individual  recommendations   and  the                                                               
accompanying and forthcoming fiscal notes.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ objected.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
A  roll call  vote  was taken.    Representatives Kott,  Coghill,                                                               
McGuire, Morgan,  and Rokeberg voted  in favor of  reporting CSHB
162(RLS) from committee.   Representative Berkowitz voted against                                                               
it.   Therefore,  CSHB 162(RLS)  was  reported out  of the  House                                                               
Rules Standing Committee by a vote of 5-1.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HB 271-PASSENGER/RECREATIONAL VEHICLE RENTAL TAX                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG announced  that the final order  of business would                                                               
be HOUSE  BILL NO.  271, "An  Act levying  and providing  for the                                                               
collection  and  administration of  an  excise  tax on  passenger                                                               
vehicle rentals; and providing for an effective date."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 223                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
KRIS  KNAUSS, Staff  to Representative  Pete  Kott, Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature, explained  that HB 271  implements a 10  percent tax                                                               
on  passenger  vehicle rentals  and  a  3  percent sales  tax  on                                                               
recreational  vehicles  (RVs).     The  legislation  exempts  any                                                               
government  employees  who  are   on  local,  state,  or  federal                                                               
business.   He noted that  the committee packet should  include a                                                               
state-by-state comparison of the rental car tax.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 212                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG moved that the  committee adopt Amendment 1, which                                                               
reads as follows:                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 11:                                                                                                           
          Delete "The"                                                                                                          
          Insert "Except in a municipality that imposes a                                                                       
     specific  vehicle  rental   tax  on  passenger  vehicle                                                                    
     rentals under AS 29.45, the"                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 13, following "passenger vehicle.":                                                                           
          Insert "In a municipality that imposed a specific                                                                     
     vehicle rental  tax on passenger vehicle  rentals under                                                                    
     AS 29.45 in effect on January 1,  2003, the rate of the                                                                    
     state  passenger   vehicle  rental  tax   levied  under                                                                    
     AS 43.52.020  is  10 percent  less  the  amount of  the                                                                    
     municipal tax.   If the  municipal tax is  greater than                                                                    
     10 percent, then the rate of the state tax is zero."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 4:                                                                                                            
          Delete "The"                                                                                                          
          Insert "Except in a municipality that imposes a                                                                       
     specific  vehicle rental  tax  on recreational  vehicle                                                                    
     rentals under AS 29.45, the"                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 6, following "recreational vehicle.":                                                                         
          Insert "In a municipality that imposed a specific                                                                     
     vehicle  rental  tax  on recreational  vehicle  rentals                                                                    
     under AS 29.45  in effect on January 1,  2003, the rate                                                                    
     of  the state  recreational vehicle  rental tax  levied                                                                    
     under AS 43.52.030 is three percent  less the amount of                                                                    
      the municipal tax.  If the municipal tax is greater                                                                       
     than three percent, then the rate of the state tax is                                                                      
     zero."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, lines 17 - 19:                                                                                                     
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          Insert "Sec. 43.52.070"                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
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REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL objected.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  explained that  Amendment 1 places  a cap  on the                                                               
total amount of  any sales type taxes or  specific rental vehicle                                                               
tax at 10 percent on the  passenger vehicles and 3 percent on the                                                               
recreational  vehicles.     He  mentioned  former  Representative                                                               
Andrew  Halcro's  letter,  which  is included  in  the  committee                                                               
packet.    Chair  Rokeberg  informed   the  committee  that  this                                                               
amendment  was   discussed  in   the  House   Finance  Committee.                                                               
However,  at that  time it  didn't include  the January  1, 2003,                                                               
effective date to disallow any new  municipal taxes.  There was a                                                               
belief that all of the  municipalities would have a retrospective                                                               
date.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT acknowledged that  this amendment was offered                                                               
and  rejected in  the House  Finance  Committee.   Representative                                                               
Kott highlighted that the intent of  HB 271 is to provide revenue                                                               
to   the  state.     However,   [Amendment  1   would]  encourage                                                               
municipalities   to  increase   their  tax   base  so   that  the                                                               
municipality  would receive  the maximum  amount while  the state                                                               
would  receive  zero  revenue.   Therefore,  Representative  Kott                                                               
opposed Amendment 1.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  clarified that [under  Amendment 1]  unless there                                                               
is a tax in effect on  January 1, 2003, the municipality wouldn't                                                               
be  able  to  [increase  its  tax base].    Chair  Rokeberg  said                                                               
[Amendment 1]  is similar  to the  shock absorber  transition tax                                                               
that  has been  discussed [in  relation to]  the statewide  sales                                                               
tax.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 147                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE noted  her support of the  amendment.  She                                                               
highlighted  the  importance of  recognizing  that  tourism is  a                                                               
valuable industry to  the state.  She related her  belief that HB
271 is fair, but the amendment makes it better legislation.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  announced that there  was objection  to Amendment                                                               
1.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was  taken.  Representatives Berkowitz, McGuire,                                                               
and  Rokeberg voted  in favor  of Amendment  1.   Representatives                                                               
Morgan,  Kott,   and  Coghill  voted  against   it.    Therefore,                                                               
Amendment 1 failed by a vote of 3-3.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ   inquired  as   to  why  there   is  a                                                               
differential tax rate between [the passenger vehicles and RVs].                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT answered that there  was an overall goal that                                                               
would  create parity  between  passenger vehicles  and  RVs.   He                                                               
informed  the committee  that the  average  passenger vehicle  in                                                               
Anchorage rents  for $49.95 and  thus the 10 percent  [tax] would                                                               
generate $5.   The  average RV  rents for  $175 in  Anchorage and                                                               
[the tax] would generate approximately  $5.  He explained that he                                                               
didn't want  to establish a  10 percent  tax on a  "vehicle" that                                                               
would  rent for  $175, which  could potentially  push [the  total                                                               
rental  charge] over  $200 because  some  studies have  indicated                                                               
that there  is a [rental  charge] at  which people choose  not to                                                               
[rent].                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ surmised then  that there are elasticity                                                               
studies regarding an increase of 10 percent on RVs.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT  clarified that  its not a  percentage rather                                                               
there seems  to be  a reduced  level of  rentals when  the rental                                                               
charges reach $200.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ inquired as to who rents the RVs.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT estimated that  tourists would primarily rent                                                               
RVs, although he was sure that Alaskans do as well.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG, upon determining  there was no further discussion                                                               
on the legislation, inquired as to the will of the committee.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 094                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT  moved  to   report  CSHB  271(FIN)  out  of                                                               
committee  with individual  recommendations and  the accompanying                                                               
fiscal notes.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ objected.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote was  taken.  Representatives  Coghill, McGuire,                                                               
Morgan, and  Kott voted in  favor of reporting CSHB  271(FIN) out                                                               
of  committee.    Representatives Berkowitz  and  Rokeberg  voted                                                               
against it.   Therefore,  CSHB 271(FIN) was  reported out  of the                                                               
House Rules Standing Committee by a vote of 4-2.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Rules Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 11:20 a.m.                                                                    

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