02/03/2014 01:00 PM House RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB163 | |
| HB268 | |
| HB244 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HB 163 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 268 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 244 | TELECONFERENCED | |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
February 3, 2014
1:05 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Eric Feige, Co-Chair
Representative Dan Saddler, Co-Chair
Representative Peggy Wilson, Vice Chair
Representative Mike Hawker
Representative Craig Johnson
Representative Kurt Olson
Representative Paul Seaton
Representative Scott Kawasaki
Representative Geran Tarr
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 163
"An Act prohibiting a person from burning certain materials in a
solid fuel burning device; relating to solid fuel burning device
emission standards; and relating to prohibitions on the burning
of solid fuels."
- HEARD & HELD
HOUSE BILL NO. 268
"An Act relating to big bull moose derbies."
- HEARD & HELD
HOUSE BILL NO. 244
"An Act extending the termination date of the Citizens' Advisory
Commission on Federal Management Areas in Alaska; and providing
for an effective date."
- MOVED HB 244 OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 163
SHORT TITLE: REGULATION OF SOLID FUEL BURNING DEVICES
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) T.WILSON
03/11/13 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
03/11/13 (H) CRA, RES
03/21/13 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124
03/21/13 (H) Moved Out of Committee
03/21/13 (H) MINUTE(CRA)
03/22/13 (H) CRA RPT 5DP
03/22/13 (H) DP: FOSTER, REINBOLD, DRUMMOND, LEDOUX,
NAGEAK
04/06/13 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124
04/06/13 (H) Heard & Held
04/06/13 (H) MINUTE(RES)
02/03/14 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124
BILL: HB 268
SHORT TITLE: BIG BULL MOOSE DERBIES
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) T.WILSON
01/21/14 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/21/14 (H) RES, FIN
02/03/14 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124
BILL: HB 244
SHORT TITLE: ADVISORY COMMISSION ON FEDERAL MGT AREAS
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) KELLER, MILLETT, HUGHES, FEIGE,
PRUITT, CHENAULT, OLSON, ISAACSON, THOMPSON, NEUMAN, STOLTZE,
LYNN, SADDLER
01/21/14 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 1/10/14
01/21/14 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/21/14 (H) RES, FIN
02/03/14 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE TAMMIE WILSON
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: As sponsor of HB 163, outlined provisions
of the proposed committee substitute, Version G.
ALICE EDWARDS, Director
Division of Air Quality
Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions related to HB 163.
REPRESENTATIVE TAMMIE WILSON
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: As the sponsor, introduced HB 268.
ANNA KIM, Chief of Revenue Options
Tax Division
Department of Revenue (DOR)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions related to HB 268.
AL BARRETTE
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 268.
GEORGE PIERCE
Kasilof, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in opposition to HB 268.
DAN JORDAN, Head Rifle Coach
University of Alaska, Fairbanks (UAF)
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 268.
GRANT LEWIS, President
Tanana Valley Sportsmen's Association (TVSA)
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 268.
MICHAEL TINKER
Ester, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 268.
ROWENA PALOMAR, Executive Director
Advocates for Victims of Violence, Inc. (AVV)
Valdez, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 268.
DARRYL VERFAILLIE, Director
Parks, Recreation, and Cultural Services
City of Valdez Parks and Recreation
Valdez, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 268.
JOE KOSS, Tax Auditor
Gaming Group
Tax Division
Department of Revenue (DOR)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions related to HB 268.
REPRESENTATIVE WES KELLER
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: As the sponsor, introduced HB 244.
RON SOMMERVILLE, Board Member
Citizens' Advisory Commission on Federal Areas (CACFA)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 244.
STAN LEAPHART, Executive Director
Citizens' Advisory Commission on Federal Areas (CACFA)
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 244.
AL BARRETTE
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 244.
ACTION NARRATIVE
1:05:44 PM
CO-CHAIR DAN SADDLER called the House Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:05 p.m. Representatives Tarr,
Kawasaki, P. Wilson, Feige, and Saddler were present at the call
to order. Representatives Seaton, Hawker, Johnson, and Olson
arrived as the meeting was in progress.
HB 163-REGULATION OF SOLID FUEL BURNING DEVICES
1:06:09 PM
CO-CHAIR SADDLER announced that the first order of business is
HOUSE BILL NO. 163, "An Act prohibiting a person from burning
certain materials in a solid fuel burning device; relating to
solid fuel burning device emission standards; and relating to
prohibitions on the burning of solid fuels." [Before the
committee was the proposed committee substitute (CS) for HB 163,
Version 28-LS0248\R, Nauman, 4/4/13, adopted as the working
document on 4/6/13.]
1:06:52 PM
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON moved to adopt the proposed committee
substitute (CS) for HB 163, Version 28-LS0248\G, Nauman,
1/27/14, as the working document. There being no objection,
Version G was before the committee.
1:07:07 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TAMMIE WILSON, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor
of HB 163, outlined the provisions of Version G. She noted the
bill's length is shortened due to the proposed [air quality]
regulations being put forth by the Department of Environmental
Conservation (DEC). She explained that the Fairbanks North Star
Borough has been designated a particulate matter (PM) 2.5
nonattainment area by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
(EPA). Space heating devices, predominantly wood and pellet
stoves and hydronic heaters, are being used by a growing number
of Fairbanks residents to heat homes and businesses. The amount
of wood burning has nearly doubled since 2006, a direct response
to increases in the price of heating oil and the lack of low
cost, clean burning, alternative fuels. A governmental agency
should not be allowed to shut down a resident's right to utilize
a certified appliance burning approved materials, unless an
emergency arises, she asserted. Version G would require an
emergency [prohibition] by the governor for an area to have its
wood burning completely banned and would set the emergency level
at 351 micrograms per cubic meter [of air], the same level
included in DEC's proposed regulations. Version G would also
put into statute the list of things that, under regulation,
cannot legally be burned in a wood stove or coal burner. This
includes such things as painted material, railroad ties, and
tires, to help people understand what should not be burned.
Unfortunately, when people do burn those items, it is because
they cannot afford the heating oil. This is all about a high
cost of energy, she stressed. As heating oil has become more
expensive, those in the Bush have had much higher expenses than
other communities and have turned to alternative sources, which
includes wood, pellets, and coal. Many of the borough's
businesses have turned to coal burners, which are cleaner than
some of the hand-loaded wood stoves. Hand-loaded wood stoves
smolder when they cool down, she explained, which goes on
throughout the day [as they burn the wood supply] and then have
to be manually re-filled. However, pellet and coal stoves have
an automatic feed that keeps the temperature constant.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON said the bill has some issues, so she
is requesting the committee to hold the bill today. She
reported DEC is concerned the bill will cause the department to
be unable to enforce what cannot be burned, which is not her
intent and which she will discuss further with DEC. Also of
concern to DEC is the five-year sunset, a date she chose in the
hope that there would be affordable energy by then. The DEC
commissioner would feel better with a two-year sunset, she said.
The state is required to make an implementation plan that shows
the EPA how the state is going to get from one point to the
next. However, the numbers are ever moving because the EPA is
always lowering the number. When EPA lowered [the maximum
level] from 65 micrograms per cubic meter to 35, it put the
borough into its current problem. Had the level stayed at 65,
the borough would have been okay for a few more years; although,
she conceded, the borough would probably be in nonattainment at
this point because more wood is being burned.
1:11:34 PM
CO-CHAIR FEIGE inquired about the significance of the microgram
number of 351, as per page 1, line 10, Version G.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON responded this number is the emergency
level proposed in the DEC regulations brought to her community,
so she put this number in the bill.
1:12:10 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI asked whether the 351 micrograms is an
acceptable level and whether [DEC] has set an acceptable level
for pollution.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON replied that 351 is the number set as
the point for emergency [by DEC]. However, as she has told the
DEC commissioner, she is not married to this number if DEC wants
to recommend a different number.
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI stated that if EPA is constantly trying
to ratchet down the microgram level, then putting 351 micrograms
into statute would result in having to change the statute if EPA
changes the acceptable limits. He asked why the proposal is to
do the level by statute rather than by regulation.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON answered that right now the state must
get down to 35 micrograms, not 351. An emergency is when
[particulates] rise to a certain level and the question is how
far over that level it should get to call an emergency. In this
bill, she is trying to look through the eyes of her constituents
regarding an emergency. People leave for work with their wood
stoves burning, she stated. The proposed regulations say that
immediate action can be taken if it gets to an episode.
However, since this plan has not been seen, it is unknown what
an immediate action is. She expressed concern about people who
have to leave work to go home to shut down their wood stoves and
hope they have enough oil to last for the number of days it
takes for the air quality to reach a certain level. She
questioned if people can be asked to go through that kind of
stress on a day-to-day basis. She said she is in favor of the
borough's current volunteer shutdowns to improve the change-out
programs, she said, or possibly subsidizing oil in certain areas
that are worse. When people are forced to shut down qualified
stoves while using the dry wood they are supposed to use, it is
like grouping everyone together on the highway and picking out
five or six cars because there are too many cars on the road.
She asked what can be done until technology improves so people
feel that they can stay in the community. She said the number
of micrograms can be discussed by DEC staff or the commissioner.
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI asked what the sponsor envisions will
happen if the level is exceeded, given that the level would be
in statute rather than regulations, and the proposed bill does
not address what happens in the case of an emergency.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON concurred the bill would supersede
regulations should [DEC] want the number to be lower and the
immediate action to be a forcible shutdown. That is what she is
trying to prevent by taking it to the level of an emergency, she
said, "and to an elected official, one who's a head of our
state, that that should be his decision and not a commissioner
or someone else down the line, when you're talking about this
degree of impact on a community."
1:16:37 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON noted a number of businesses burn waste
petroleum products, one of the prohibited items within Section
2, but they are not burning the waste petroleum products in a
wood or coal designed furnace. He surmised there is nothing in
the bill that would impact someone burning waste petroleum
products in a burner designed for liquid waste products.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON agreed, saying such a burner would not
be a solid fuel burning heating device as defined.
1:18:00 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked what the consequences are for
violating the fuel prohibitions in Section 2.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON replied that DEC's process is to first
write a letter to the person and ultimately take the person to
court. In further response, she said she did not know what the
amount of a fine could be.
CO-CHAIR SADDLER, regarding page 1, line 9, that the prohibition
be authorized by the governor, inquired whether the sponsor's
intention is that it must be the governor personally or if it
could be the governor's designee.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON responded that this could have a major
impact to an area of the state, so she would like it to be the
governor since the governor is the elected official heading the
state. [Subsection (k), page 1, lines 6-7,] is included in
Version G, she added, because Juneau already has a State
Implementation Plan and is therefore exempted from this bill.
She further noted that she is working with the Municipality of
Anchorage to answer its questions and ensure the bill does not
negatively impact that community. Responding to Representative
Seaton, she explained that subsection (k) is referring to the
City and Borough of Juneau because it is the only one that has a
wood smoke control area designated by name in state regulation.
CO-CHAIR SADDLER understood the repealer in Section 4 is because
the sponsor is assuming that good things will be coming "down a
pipeline" in the future.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON said Section 4 would bring it back to
the legislature again, at which point it can be assessed for
whether this needs to be continued. For example, there could be
improved technology with the solid fuel burning devices or a gas
supply of some sort could have reached the borough by then.
1:21:34 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI, regarding the governor authorizing this
type of prohibition, noted that Fairbanks has ceded this type of
control over to the state. He asked, however, whether the state
and governor making a decision on air quality, rather than the
local community, is really the kind of policy that is wanted.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON answered the governor already has this
power during an emergency and she would take it up a notch
because she thinks it is absolutely for the governor to do. In
the past the state has been a big player in how her community
has done energy, such as electricity and major projects, and
with that comes some responsibility. When it came to whether
her community was going to try meeting the air quality
[standards], it was the state that made an agreement with EPA to
get the community to meet any new numbers, no matter what that
may take from the community. The point of HB 163, she said, is
to refocus that Fairbanks is trying to bring in the best
technology and replace older equipment to improve air quality.
Not understood is why the air quality cannot just get better;
instead, EPA's bottom line is that this number must be met even
though the community cannot do it with the best technology out
there. She said it is going to take some other type of energy
besides even heating oil because heating oil is also at PM 2.5.
Five years from now, if Fairbanks still does not have gas or the
governor has had to frequently call an emergency, this will put
pressure on the state that it must be a player. The borough
does not have the finances, nor should it have to put its money
there, when the state itself has not done it, she opined.
1:23:52 PM
CO-CHAIR SADDLER inquired about local ordinances and voter
initiatives that the borough has adopted throughout the past.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON reiterated that the EPA keeps changing
the numbers. Another episode was in 2008, she said, when then-
governor Sarah Palin gave $1,200 to each state resident for
energy needs. The month people received that money, along with
their permanent fund dividend, the price of oil jumped over
night to almost $5 per gallon. People went into a panic mode
and bought outdoor boilers, which are meant for big buildings
rather than homes, and this increased the air quality issues
even more. The borough then came up with an ordinance, mostly
because of pressure from the EPA. The EPA only gives so much
credit for voluntary measures even when those measures are
working, she stated. Pressure is being put on the DEC
commissioner to do enforcement on Fairbanks to bring the
community into compliance because that is what the EPA requires,
but weather inversion is the number one reason the borough is
having issues. She said it is the big power plants which fill
up the top of the airshed, wood stoves fill the next level of
the airshed, and car emissions fill the lowest level. Using
state funding, the borough did a wood stove change-out program,
but unlike Libby, MT, which did a one-on-one swap, the borough
required that a borough employee come in to take a picture, the
homeowner had to have the money up front, put in the paperwork,
and then bring in the [new] appliance. Taking a picture was an
issue because the people in her community are not very friendly
when government wants to come into their homes, she noted. When
the borough decides to fine people during these times, citizens'
initiatives are put out that say the borough cannot fine people
for trying to heat their homes. This puts it on the state level
and the city level of Fairbanks and North Pole, but not the
borough itself, because it is still the peoples' intent that as
technology improves and as gas gets to homes, [air quality will
improve]. For example, it was not the local testing of car
emissions at a cost of $70 per car every two years that improved
air quality; rather, it was because technology got better and
old cars died. Unfortunately, wood stoves do not die as easily
as cars do and people become very attached to them. Once people
see how much better the new technology is, they will do it, but
it must be made to work in that direction, she stated.
1:28:21 PM
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON, in response to two questions from Co-
Chair Saddler, defined airshed as the ambient air measurement
done by monitors. A hydronic heater, she explained, is a big,
rectangular, outdoor wood stove hooked up to a water heater that
only needs to be filled once a day. Hydronic heaters do not
work quite as well because the whole wood used in them is not as
dry as split wood, plus the heaters are not turned up as high as
they need to be because the area being heated in homes is small.
CO-CHAIR FEIGE noted natural gas is being burned in Eagle River.
1:29:42 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TARR stated that some of the prohibited items
listed in proposed AS 46.14.570 produce fine particulate matter
when combusted and therefore have some influence in overall air
quality measurements. She asked why this proposed statute would
be repealed on January 1, 2019, as per Section 4 of Version G,
given those items should never be burned in a wood stove.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON replied she does not understand the
question because those items are listed in regulation and are
only relisted in the bill.
REPRESENTATIVE TARR suggested that repeal of these prohibited
items may not be wanted because the burning of plastics and
rubber products is something that should never be done.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON conceded that is a good point. She
said the repeal is more related to the first part rather than
the second, so she will consider the suggestion.
1:31:22 PM
CO-CHAIR FEIGE posited that a technological advance could occur
in the next five years that would allow those prohibited items
to be burned because they would not contribute to air pollution.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON agreed, saying things have come a long
way; for example, some stoves now take wood or oil. Section 4
would require a review of all prohibited items in five years.
1:32:12 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON inquired whether the list of prohibited
items would be applied to all municipalities or only to
Fairbanks.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON answered it would be applied to
Anchorage as well as Fairbanks.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON noted that Anchorage does its own
monitoring and can now do its own emergency orders. He asked
whether this would prevent Anchorage from having that ability.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON responded that she does not believe so,
but she is having discussions with Anchorage and will make sure
that Anchorage's questions are addressed.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON related there are people in Anchorage who
burn for aesthetics rather than heat and for this they use
treated plastic logs purchased at Fred Meyer's. He asked
whether HB 163 would ban the sale or use of that product in any
place in Alaska during an emergency order.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON replied that is not her intent, so she
will make sure that the bill does not. She pointed out that
Anchorage, Fairbanks, and Juneau have air quality programs, but
the Wasilla area is the next community that will probably have a
problem with the PM 2.5; therefore, she will ensure this point
applies to any community.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON offered his agreement with Representative
Kawasaki about keeping this with the city rather than putting it
in the state's hand, especially in Anchorage where that control
has not been given up and Anchorage still does the monitoring.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON answered that is why it is just on an
emergency level and the prohibited item list is already there
for the state. It is not her intent to step on any of the
municipalities. Her intent is to ensure that when there is the
possibility of a huge negative impact, it is known who will be
making those calls.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON thanked the sponsor for working with
Anchorage in regard to the bill.
1:35:28 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI noted that the issue of air quality has
long been worked on in Fairbanks, and [state] regulations are
currently being promulgated. Given that a quicker solution is
wanted rather than a slower one, he inquired what impact HB 163
will have on the regulations currently being drafted.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON responded that DEC has said it wants
sold only those stoves that put out 2.5 [micrograms] per hour,
and "the borough would still be able to be allowed in this."
The intent is that DEC could still go after people who are
burning prohibited items, but Legislative Legal and Research
Services has said that that portion of the bill could be much
clearer. All volunteer activities and programs could still take
place. "It just takes it to a notch to where you are literally
doing a complete banning of an energy source would make it
clearer on who could absolutely do that portion of it," she
said.
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI expressed his concern that if a bill is
passed by the legislature it will take a long time to promulgate
the regulations. Delay has caused a lot of people in Fairbanks
to move, he said, so he does not want to see any delay in
implementing some sort of a policy to get to the root of the air
pollution issue in the Fairbanks area.
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON agreed and said that is why the bill
version that comes back to the committee will not impact the
majority of what is in the proposed regulations. She clarified
that they are proposed regulations and DEC is currently going
through the hundreds of comments it has received. The final
regulations will be part of the State Implementation Plan, she
explained, and passing a bill now is less likely to slow things
down than waiting until after finalization of the regulations
and plan.
1:37:51 PM
CO-CHAIR FEIGE asked whether the list of prohibited items is
enforced at all times or only when the governor declares an
emergency.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON replied those items cannot be burned in
a solid fuel burning heating device at any time. In further
response, she confirmed that these prohibited items are included
in current regulations.
CO-CHAIR FEIGE inquired whether there is an exemption for
burning the prohibited items in a rural area, for example, a
remote mining camp, where there would be no significant
detriment to the overall air quality.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON answered there is no exemption.
However, she clarified, it is a solid fuel burning heating
device being talked about here, so it might be different for an
open bonfire.
CO-CHAIR FEIGE said these remote camps use incinerators for
getting rid of all kinds of things, including some of the things
on the prohibited list.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON responded that incinerators would not
be included in HB 163 because the bill defines solid fuel
burning heating device, and those prohibited items cannot be
burned in that type of device. If not in an urban area, the
odds of DEC imposing a fine are probably little to none, she
said, but these items still should not be burned in a solid fuel
burning heating device as defined in the bill.
1:40:44 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER, regarding page 1, line 10, asked whether
"region" is a defined term.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON replied the bill's terminology is taken
from the regulations as proposed by DEC, so she assumes DEC has
that definition. Her community is a nonattainment area, so most
of the rules being talked about pertain to that actual region.
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER said it seems vague to him because if it
is not defined then it is unclear what constitutes the region.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON agreed and said she will make sure it
is defined.
1:42:50 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON inquired whether the intent of page 1,
lines 9-10, is that the governor cannot authorize the
prohibition under any other circumstances.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON answered neither the governor nor
anyone else could mandatorily shut down a region's wood-fired
devices unless the level [is at 351 micrograms per cubic meter].
She said she will talk further with the DEC commissioner about
whether that number is correct.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked whether there is, or will be, a
definition of treated wood.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON responded she will find out.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON explained he is bringing this up because
of Representative Johnson's question about pressed logs. He
posited it could get into a situation where someone sues the
state claiming that pellets are treated wood.
CO-CHAIR SADDLER understood only the governor could call the ban
and the ban could only be called if the standard is exceeded.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON said he is correct.
1:45:08 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI inquired how HB 163 would impact the
regulations currently being promulgated by DEC.
ALICE EDWARDS, Director, Division of Air Quality, Department of
Environmental Conservation (DEC), said the division is still
looking through Version G and has had initial discussions with
the bill sponsor. The division still needs to clarify some of
that so it understands what the implications would be to the
regulatory proposals that have gone out for public comment.
Therefore, she said, she cannot speak to that until DEC has had
more time to review the proposed bill.
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI reported the borough and the state have
been going round and round on this and people are leaving
Fairbanks due to the energy costs and the air quality. A delay
would be difficult for him if the division thinks it is moving
quickly on the proposed regulations. He asked whether the bill
would impact the State Implementation Plan.
MS. EDWARDS said the division is looking at the bill to
determine how it will impact the State Implementation Plan, both
the parts that are already in place as well as the future plan
for the Fairbanks North Star Borough. Clearly, the division is
trying to find solutions and make emission reductions in the
borough's nonattainment area as expeditiously as possible. It
is important the division take that into context when reviewing
this bill.
1:47:14 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI queried whether 351 micrograms per cubic
meter of air is exactly what is in current regulation.
MS. EDWARDS replied that number was in the proposal. A section
in the existing air quality regulations deals with emergency
types of episodes, and for most pollutants the division has set
three different levels of standards: an episode, a warning, and
an emergency. The 351 micrograms per cubic meter at a 24-hour
average is DEC's new proposal for the highest level for fine
particulate matter; those have not yet been adopted.
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI paraphrased from the Air Quality Index
regarding 351 micrograms per cubic meter in a 24-hour period:
"everyone should avoid physical activity outdoors; people with
heart and lung disease, older adults, children should remain
indoors; keep activity levels very low." He asked whether the
state has given thought to making the standard higher than is
currently proposed.
MS. EDWARDS answered DEC is looking at the comments it has
received on that proposal. She confirmed it does tie back to
the Air Quality Index and for the episode level DEC has proposed
56, which is when it is unhealthy for all individuals. An
intermediate step and an emergency level were also proposed.
1:49:05 PM
CO-CHAIR SADDLER queried about the timeline for delivery of the
proposed regulations.
MS. EDWARDS responded the comment period closed at the end of
January [2014] and many hundreds of comments were received. The
division is working to move through those relatively quickly,
but there is a lot of information to look at. It will take a
couple of months to work through the comments and with the
commissioner and administration to get a final package.
1:49:39 PM
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON commented that the proposed regulations
make a difference for the town of Fairbanks, while DEC is
concerned about the actual health of the people living in
Fairbanks. While there are two different angles to look at
this, as a parent she would want to be warned when certain
levels are reached so she could ensure her children are watching
TV instead of running around. She inquired whether the town of
Fairbanks wants to change what DEC has put into place so that it
does not have to close down as soon.
MS. EDWARDS, qualifying she is unsure of the question, replied
that DEC does currently call air quality advisories in Fairbanks
and will continue to do so. The setting of the episode levels
formalizes concentrations for fine particulate matter, which, to
this point, DEC has not had in regulation. So, it is new, but
is a statewide proposal that would then also factor into the
situation in Fairbanks.
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON asked whether the majority of people
commenting on the proposed regulations were for or against
putting these levels in place.
MS. EDWARDS answered that federal requirements calling for the
establishment of episode levels is one reason why the proposed
regulations were brought forward. The department received many
comments from people in the community about what those levels
should be, and those are still being evaluated.
1:52:11 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TARR inquired whether the majority of people
commenting wanted the regulations to be stricter or more lenient
than proposed.
MS. EDWARDS responded DEC is still looking at the comments, but
comments are being seen in both directions.
1:52:54 PM
CO-CHAIR SADDLER held over HB 163, saying public testimony would
be held the next time the bill is brought up.
HB 268-BIG BULL MOOSE DERBIES
1:53:06 PM
CO-CHAIR SADDLER announced that the next order of business is
HOUSE BILL NO. 268, "An Act relating to big bull moose derbies."
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON moved to adopt the proposed committee
substitute (CS) for HB 268, Version 28-LS0851\N, Martin,
1/31/14, as the working document. There being no objection,
Version N was before the committee.
1:53:42 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TAMMIE WILSON, Alaska State Legislature, Juneau,
Alaska, introduced HB 268 by reading from the following sponsor
statement [original punctuation provided]:
House Bill 268 would allow the Tanana Valley Sportsmen
Association to raise funds for their organization and
the University of Fairbanks Nanooks Rifle team
equally. The big bull moose derbies would be operated
much like other contests already allowed under
statute. This will take place during the annual moose
season, by individuals that have acquired all the
proper documentation already implemented by the State
of Alaska to stay within the legal boundaries of the
moose season. Participants must purchase a derby
ticket prior to the open day of the season. The winner
would be determined based on the bull antlers; the
widest spread legally taken and would receive a
predetermined portion of the net proceeds from the
fund raiser. Anyone who enters a bull would,
regardless of the antler spread, be entered into a
drawing for prizes.
The Tanana Valley Sportsmen's Association (TVSA) is a
nonprofit organization that hosts training and
completion events for the nationally ranked University
of Alaska Nanooks Rifle Team as well as the local high
schools. It is home to a multitude of community and
school events; NCAA tournaments, biathlon training &
competition, gun safety and personal protection
classes are among the many.
House Bill 268 would allow the raising of funds to
further the use of the TVSA club house and support the
efforts of the nationally ranked UAF Nanooks Rifle
team who has produced Olympic level competitors.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON pointed out that Version N adds [the
Snow Town Ice Classic] to the bill, which would be administered
by the Advocates for Victims of Violence, Inc. (AVV). The state
has various kinds of derbies, such as salmon and halibut
derbies, she explained, and communities must go through statute
to be able to conduct these derbies. The capital budget is
going down and she has always told her group that she would be
behind any ideas it has for fundraising, so that is what brought
this forward.
1:56:05 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON inquired whether this big bull moose
contest has been going on since before statehood.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON responded no, it would be new. No one
has done it at all, so this is what they are asking to do.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON directed attention to page 3, lines 18-20,
Version N, which state: "... an activity may not be licensed
under this chapter unless it existed in the state in
substantially the same form and was conducted in substantially
the same manner before January 1, 1959." He asked whether the
proposed addition of bull moose derbies is being put into the
right section of the regulations, given it did not exist before.
However, he then noted, perhaps big bull moose derbies fall
under the exception provision on page 3, line 14, Version N, and
it is therefore okay.
CO-CHAIR SADDLER offered his agreement with Representative
Seaton's interpretation, saying bill drafters understand this
sort of thing.
1:57:46 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TARR, regarding the mechanism, surmised a person
would still need to apply for a permit through the traditional
way, so this proposal would not impact the overall number of
moose harvested.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON concurred, saying a person who is going
hunting anyway could purchase a ticket in the hopes of winning
some money or a prize. No more permits would be given because
of this proposed derby.
CO-CHAIR SADDLER added he thinks sports people and hunters tend
to be big hearted and want to support civic activities, and the
Tanana Valley Sportsmen's Association is a good activity.
1:58:42 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI observed the sponsor statement mentions
the Tanana Valley Sportsmen's Association and the University of
Alaska Nanooks Rifle Team, but the proposed bill does not state
that they are the specific permittee. He queried as to what
happens if someone other than these two organizations would like
to be a permittee.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON replied that absolutely anyone can take
advantage of it; someone wanting to have just a moose derby
rather than a big bull moose derby could do so. She said her
bill is exclusively to help these groups and that is how they
anticipate using it, but somebody in another part of the state
could have a different type if it wanted to.
1:59:48 PM
CO-CHAIR SADDLER observed that Version N specifically and
repeatedly states "big" bull moose derby, but in the existing
language there is no "big" king salmon. He inquired about the
necessity of the modifier "big".
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON answered it is the name that the rifle
team liked and how they are going to promote it. She brought
the name forward because at the time she did not realize that
anybody could use it. She said she would be willing to accept a
friendly amendment that takes out "big" or makes it just be a
moose derby.
2:00:55 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER offered his support for the bill, but
suggested "ice classics" in the title be tightened. The state
has many ice classics, he said, and anything could be inserted
into the bill that could affect any one of these other
functioning ice classics rather than having it be as the bill
intends to be, which is specific authority for "the Snow Town
Ice Classic to be operated and administered by the Advocates for
Victims of Violence, Inc." He said this change could be made
any time before the bill goes to the House floor.
2:02:56 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI asked what the Snow Town Ice Classic is
and what the organization is.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON deferred to Co-Chair Feige.
CO-CHAIR FEIGE first offered his agreement with Representative
Hawker regarding the title. He then noted that he is now a co-
sponsor of the bill and thanked Representative T. Wilson for
adding the Snow Town Ice Classic language. He said this classic
is in Valdez, and Advocates for Victims of Violence, Inc. is a
local charity in Valdez that is looking to broaden its revenue
base to other sources besides the State of Alaska.
The committee took a brief at-ease.
2:05:49 PM
CO-CHAIR SADDLER announced he will be holding over HB 268 to
provide an opportunity for further work regarding Representative
Hawker's concern.
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI inquired if any research has been done
on whether incentivizing a derby or classic will result in more
hunters or more moose being taken in an attempt to make money
off the situation.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON responded she has not done any surveys.
She said her understanding of hunters is that they love to hunt
and right now all of the permits are always taken up. This may
make it more competitive or more people may try to hunt, she
allowed, but the number of permits will still remain the same.
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI asked how this will work for federal
subsistence areas and areas where there is a tier.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON understood that whatever a person must
do now to be able to legally hunt for a moose will still have to
be done under this bill. All HB 268 would do is allow a hunter
to participate in this under a legal permit that has been done
by the Alaska Department of Fish & Game.
2:07:59 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said he hears this bill as being one that
requires people to go hunt. In classics, people are guessing
what the size of the biggest bull moose is this year and it is a
game of chance. He inquired whether the sponsor's intention is
to allow either of these to go forward so that people can guess
what is the biggest moose taken in a particular unit.
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON understood the organizer of these
events would have to go through the Department of Revenue and
follow the department's guidelines for how to set up the event.
She said allowing people to guess sizes would provide even more
revenue to the organizer because then it would not be limited to
just the hunters. She deferred to the Department of Revenue for
a further answer.
2:09:57 PM
CO-CHAIR SADDLER asked whether there is a technical distinction
between what is a classic and what is a derby.
ANNA KIM, Chief of Revenue Options, Tax Division, Department of
Revenue (DOR), replied she cannot answer that question fully but
said there are actual definitions for games of chance versus
games of skill when the department is reviewing things. In
further response, she said she will get back to the committee
regarding those definitions.
CO-CHAIR SADDLER inquired whether a derby is taking a chance
while a classic is what someone else does.
MS. KIM replied she thinks the co-chair's assumption is correct.
2:10:55 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON offered his understanding that a game of
skill does not necessarily require permits to the gaming aspect
as much as games of chance. He said he has trouble calling the
hunting of a moose a game of chance because much skill is
involved in getting a moose. He said he does not want to merge
the two. If it is drawing a permit to have a chance to get a
moose, then he could see chance and a qualifier for being a
gaming permit situation. He therefore asked whether this bill
is actually necessary.
MS. KIM responded there is some past history that she has not
been briefed on as far as this particular activity related to
skill or chance. She said her understanding is that for this to
move forward it would have to be chance.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON inquired whether DOR's approval is needed
to split the pot with the biggest moose because it is not chance
and therefore [this bill] is unnecessary.
MS. KIM replied she does not know the answer and will get back
to the committee in this regard.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said the ice classic is not an issue as
he understands that. Guessing the length of the antlers is a
different issue, but to just to go out and take the biggest
moose is, to him, a skill and not a chance.
2:12:56 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TARR observed the list of activities allowed to
be done for fundraising is growing. She asked how much the
workload will be increased for the administrative support of
these additional activities.
MS. KIM answered activities added in the past have, so far, been
absorbed by the existing staff in DOR's gaming group.
2:14:17 PM
CO-CHAIR SADDLER opened public testimony on HB 268.
AL BARRETTE said he supported HB 268 and any time organizations
have an opportunity to raise money, particularly collegiate
organizations, it lessens the burden on the state budget.
Regarding skilled hunting versus chance hunting, he said it
takes skill to hunt an animal, but it is by chance that a hunter
gets the largest moose for that derby. He therefore urged
committee members to support the bill.
2:16:13 PM
GEORGE PIERCE said he opposed HB 268 because it is a scam to
take the bull moose because moose populations are down all
across the state. A derby will likely bring nonresidents to
Alaska to kill moose that residents cannot even harvest in many
locations. For example, king salmon on the Kenai Peninsula are
targeted by one special interest group, and now there are no
more big king salmon. Now there is another special interest
group that wants to take Alaska's resources so it can make money
through a fundraiser. These are his resources, he said, and he
does not want them outsourced and sold for money because
somebody wants to make some money. He urged members to step up
for Alaskans and turn down HB 268.
2:18:12 PM
DAN JORDAN, Head Rifle Coach, University of Alaska, Fairbanks,
noted he took over the rifle program about nine years ago. Over
the years, ways have been looked at to cut costs as well as to
increase revenue to take the burden off the university. One
idea was to bring forth this big bull derby after looking at the
success of the halibut derbies, salmon derbies, and ice
classics. It would formalize what has already been going on
informally in Fairbanks, he said. It was decided to bring in
the Tanana Valley Sportsmen's Association because it is involved
with youth as well as animal management. The hunters are
already out there, he said, and he does not believe this derby
will increase the number of hunters. It would provide a chance
to bring in the people who are already harvesting moose and
provide them with recognition while providing the organizations
a chance to make some money that would benefit youth, college
shooters, and the communities. The more funds from outside of
the university the more things that can be done to support these
activities.
REPRESENTATIVE TARR inquired whether Mr. Jordan would support a
policy that limits derby participation to Alaska residents only.
MR. JORDAN answered he would have to think about that.
2:20:37 PM
GRANT LEWIS, President, Tanana Valley Sportsmen's Association
(TVSA), related the roots of his organization began in 1911 in
Fairbanks and it was incorporated as a club in 1937. In the
last 20 years, the focus of TVSA has been on youth firearms
education, with the group having its own youth shooting club and
training about 75 kids a year in safe handling of firearms.
Additionally, TVSA works with high schools, junior high schools,
and charter schools, as well as helping with the university.
Last year, the TVSA junior club started a senior division and it
won the national championship in its class. [The derby] would
be conducted under TVSA's existing gaming permit; thus, TVSA is
obviously in favor of the bill. It would allow TVSA to get
operating money that it would not have to raise elsewhere or
have to ask the state for. The TVSA always likes to support the
national championship University of Alaska rifle team.
2:22:34 PM
MICHAEL TINKER stated he is a life member of TVSA and has had a
long affiliation with the university's rifle team, which is
working to win its eleventh national championship. During the
25 years he was associated with the Fairbanks Advisory Committee
and the Board of Game, the research he saw indicated that
hunters in the field always seek the biggest moose or caribou,
although hunters concerned with just filling their freezer will
take the very first one seen. Thus, this is not promoting
anything that will cause a big shift in hunting numbers. It
would be nice if this could subscribe hunters to begin moose
hunting, but that is unlikely to happen. If, for example, the
fee is $10 and 1,500 tickets are sold and a substantial prize is
given away, TVSA could still give the university's program about
$7,000-$10,000, which would be significant in terms of equipment
and support for the team. He said TVSA thinks this proposal
will work and grow and that is why it is asking the committee to
consider this proposal. His organization wants to get people to
buy a ticket and anticipates weekly winners by drawing
throughout the approximately four-week long season. An absolute
scoring mechanism has not yet been decided upon, but TVSA will
be trying to accommodate those who, by state regulation, are
required to underscore the antlers. The TVSA will have a couple
of check stations in Fairbanks to which the antlers can be
brought for scoring eligibility in the contest.
2:26:06 PM
ROWENA PALOMAR, Executive Director, Advocates for Victims of
Violence, Inc. (AVV), explained that AVV is one of twenty
programs that provide services to victims of domestic violence
and sexual assault. For fiscal year 2013 through 2014, AVV's
basic operating costs have risen over $20,000 for increased
transportation for victims in villages, and for shelter,
utility, energy, and insurance costs. At the current state
funding level, AVV would need an additional $25,000 to continue
to meet victims' basic needs. Unfortunately, the current
proposed increment in state funding of about $285,000 will be
divided by 20 programs in the state, and AVV will need to make
up the difference or be forced to cut services. By being
eligible to receive funding from the Snow Town Ice Classic, AVV
can use this money as emergency funding to meet the projected
shortfall rather than making the difficult decision of what
services to cut and not turning victims away.
CO-CHAIR FEIGE lauded Ms. Palomar for doing an excellent job in
representing AVV.
2:28:02 PM
DARRYL VERFAILLIE, Director, Parks, Recreation, and Cultural
Services, City of Valdez Parks and Recreation, said he supported
HB 268 and is speaking in partnership with AVV to promote the
addition of the ice classic in Valdez. The city was looking for
an event that would provide both residents and visitors with
additional winter entertainment in an area where winter goes on
and on and on. It is hoped that the event will help promote the
city's annual week-long Frosty Fever Winter Celebration, help
promote winter tourism, and help strengthen partnerships between
the City of Valdez and Advocates for Victims of Violence. He
emphasized the City of Valdez would receive no revenues from the
event. The city would simply coordinate the event, assist with
event advertising, and provide monitoring of the site on behalf
of AVV, thereby maximizing nonprofit revenues while bolstering
Parks and Recreation's winter offerings.
2:29:42 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON, addressing the Department of Revenue,
queried whether [the moose derby] would be a game of chance.
JOE KOSS, Tax Auditor, Gaming Group, Tax Division, Department of
Revenue (DOR), confirmed it does, adding that the full title of
the statute, AS 05.15, is Games of Chance and Contests of Skill.
While hunting is an exercise in skill, there is still an element
of chance because an animal might not be seen or [the shot]
might miss. The proposed activity definitely comes under the
department's purview and under the statute, he said.
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER recalled a debate in which it was
maintained that poker is such a game of skill that it ought to
be exempt from these statutes. This is absurd, he said, but it
illustrates the point that Mr. Koss is bringing up in regard to
the relationship between games of skill and chance and the
intent of this sort of activity.
2:31:34 PM
CO-CHAIR SADDLER requested a definition of derby versus classic.
MR. KOSS replied that classics tend to be based on guessing
games, such as guessing when the ice will go out or how many
fish pass a certain point. Derbies are based on catching the
largest fish, and in this instance it would be the largest
antlers, so derby definitely fits the proposed activity. In
further response, he confirmed there is no real distinction
between the two terms as far as distinct definitions.
2:32:35 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON corrected his earlier question, observing
that page 4, lines 11-12, define a big bull moose derby as
harvesting a bull moose based on the size or spread of the
antlers. Thus, he said, it eliminates classic, which is
guessing which ones would be available. He questioned whether
more will be gained by a few hunters than by people guessing the
size of the largest bull caught this year, but said that is the
choice being made in this bill.
2:33:20 PM
CO-CHAIR SADDLER drew attention to page 2, line 29, Version N,
which states that DOR may issue a permit to a qualified
organization. He asked what criteria an organization must meet
and what the permit stipulations are.
MR. KOSS answered that the statute defines a qualifying
organization as one that is not for profit, has at least 25
Alaska residents as members, and is at least three years old.
2:34:13 PM
CO-CHAIR SADDLER kept public testimony open and held over
HB 268.
HB 244-ADVISORY COMMISSION ON FEDERAL MGT AREAS
2:34:29 PM
CO-CHAIR SADDLER announced that the final order of business is
HOUSE BILL NO. 244, "An Act extending the termination date of
the Citizens' Advisory Commission on Federal Management Areas in
Alaska; and providing for an effective date."
The committee took a brief at-ease.
2:35:17 PM
REPRESENTATIVE WES KELLER, Alaska State Legislature, introduced
HB 244, stating it would extend the sunset date of the Citizens'
Advisory Commission on Federal Management Areas (CACFA) [from
June 30, 2014] to 2021. The Alaska Constitution talks about the
legislature providing for the use, conservation, and development
of the state's natural resources to the maximum benefit of the
people. This implies some rights that Alaskans have, such as
those defined by the statehood compact and federal laws like
Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (ANCSA) and Alaska National
Interest Lands Conservation Act (ANILCA), as well as case law
that regularly happens and regulations that are ongoing. He
said CACFA exists to help Alaskans maintain the rights they have
been given. He drew attention to CACFA's 2013 Annual Report in
the committee packet, noting the topics that CACFA deals with
are listed on page 1, [second] paragraph, and the federal
agencies CACFA deals with are also listed on page 1. He
reported that CACFA held a summit on August 12-13, 2013, which
was attended by a couple hundred people, including the governor,
U.S. Senator Lisa Murkowski, U.S. Senator Mark Begich, and
Congressman Don Young. The summit's purpose was to gather
people to document the areas in which they saw the federal
government overreaching and stepping on the authority and
management responsibilities of the state. The response was
overwhelming and each presenter was also asked to offer a
proposal, which resulted in the document included at the end of
the annual report that gives all the recommendations brought
forward at the summit. This list is not yet done, he advised,
and a presentation will later be made to the legislature.
2:39:41 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER said he believes CACFA is a strong
commission because of its high quality executive director, Mr.
Stan Leaphart. Displaying a copy of the Federal Register which
lists every regulation that comes out from the federal
government, he said Mr. Leaphart sorts through the federal
regulations that come out every year and brings those of concern
to CACFA's attention. However, not all of the changes, or
abuses, as he calls them, are brought up in the federal
register. For example, every year the National Park Service
comes up with a compendium, and it was found that the compendium
was overriding the state's fish and game management policies by
closing areas that the Alaska Department of Fish & Game had
chosen not to close. While that might have been the right thing
to do, the point is that it was being done unilaterally without
being published in the Federal Register and this is the sort of
thing that Mr. Leaphart catches, he said. Additionally, Mr.
Leaphart maintains a dialog with the National Park Service, as
well as the Department of Natural Resources. In addition to Mr.
Leaphart being top of the line, his staff person, Karrie
Improte, is also very capable, he opined. Representative Keller
said CACFA's commissioners are another reason for its strength:
Rod Arno, Senator John Coghill, Mark Fish, Teresa Hanson,
Charlie Lean, Mike Meekin, Kathleen Liska, Warren Olson, Ron
Somerville, Susan Smith, and Frank Woods.
2:46:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER thanked Representative Keller for
introducing the bill, saying the report is something he
appreciates and that CACFA's work stands on its own as far as
why the bill should be supported. He inquired, however, whether
there are any problems with the way the commission is
functioning or whether there are any reasons why CACFA should
not be reauthorized.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER responded that he serves as CACFA's chair
and, while its commissioners may spar, there is such a common
thread of purpose that CACFA is a very healthy organization. If
anything, CACFA needs to be expanded because the executive
director is very overworked. While that is not part of the
proposal, he urged the committee to consider that.
2:48:14 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER, responding to Representative Kawasaki,
said there is fiscal note. The cost to date, if there was an
audit, would be for travel and lodging for three meetings per
year. He said CACFA is still in the process of wisely spending
the governor's special funding from after the summit.
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI asked why CACFA was disbanded in 1999.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER deferred to executive director Leaphart
for an answer since he was involved before the disbanding.
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI inquired whether the legislature or
governor has utilized any of the recommendations in the 2013
Annual Report.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER replied "most definitely, it is ongoing."
For example, one role CACFA plays is interacting with the
different agencies, such as the Department of Law. This was
happening before the recommendation came out, such as working on
the state transportation plan.
CO-CHAIR SADDLER brought attention to page 21 of the report.
2:51:07 PM
CO-CHAIR SADDLER opened public testimony on HB 244.
RON SOMMERVILLE, Board Member, Citizens' Advisory Commission on
Federal Areas, advised that relative to the overreach issues, a
detailed report with more comprehensive recommendations is
forthcoming to the legislature. He maintained that when looking
at the state's entitlement, the state is losing. He related
that at the summit he asked how many people feel that the state
has a severe overreach problem, and every person but one agreed.
Not knowing how to address this issue is the problem, he opined.
Drawing attention to the Alaska map on the committee room wall,
Mr. Sommerville pointed out that much of it is colored green,
which represents federal ownership. Private Alaska citizens are
being overwhelmed with planning by federal agencies. An
organization he belongs to in Juneau used to comment on issues
relative to other parts of the state because they affected the
organization, but now that cannot be done because the
organization cannot even keep up with the [Tongass National
Forest] land use planning systems in Southeast Alaska. This
problem relates to CACFA because CACFA represents, in many
cases, an individual person who comes to it with a problem that
the agencies do not have the wherewithal to address. He
supported the continuing of CACFA.
2:54:21 PM
STAN LEAPHART, Executive Director, Citizens' Advisory Commission
on Federal Areas (CACFA), recalled that in 2012, CACFA reviewed
approximately 15,000 pages of management plans from 4 different
federal agencies. Next year CACFA is going to be looking at new
management plans for the Tongass National Forest, the Chugach
National Forest, the Central Yukon Planning Area, the Bering
Sea-Western Interior Resource Management Plan, plus revised
management plans for Gates of the Arctic National Park and
Preserve and Lake Clark National Park and Preserve. When
reviewing a management plan, CACFA looks at how the guarantees
and promises made in the Alaska National Interest Lands
Conservation Act (ANILCA) are being complied with. As time goes
by since the passing of ANILCA, the institutional memory and
knowledge of the federal agencies is disappearing. Thus, CACFA
is constantly reminding agencies that Alaskans are guaranteed
access into these huge management areas by means that are not
commonly used in the Lower 48. Also included in ANILCA were
considerations for cabin use and commercial fishing in these
areas, and CACFA must constantly remind federal agencies that
these uses need to be recognized and provided for in their
management plans. He related that CACFA talks to public user
groups to find out their concerns with respect to management of
these areas.
2:57:17 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI inquired what the state is doing as far
as the type of work that CACFA is doing.
MR. LEAPHART responded the state's ANILCA program looks at many
of these same management plans and regulatory proposals and
tends to focus on how a planning effort or regulation package
will affect state management prerogatives, while CACFA reaches
out to the public and user groups. He related that Mr. John
Sturgeon has brought suit against the National Park Service over
a set of regulations that allows the National Park Service to
regulate activities on any waters within the boundaries of a
national park. The Citizens' Advisory Commission on Federal
Areas spent several weeks researching the legislative history of
ANILCA to provide that background information to the Department
of Law. Thus, CACFA works well with state agencies and brings a
little bit of different perspective into that process.
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI asked why CACFA was disbanded during the
time period of 1999-2007.
MR. LEAPHART responded he was hired in 1982 by the original
commission created in 1981 by Senator Bettye Fahrenkamp. He
worked as CACFA's director until it was defunded in June 1999
due to a state budget crisis. Like now, CACFA was attached to
the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) and it was DNR that
made the choice to eliminate CACFA due to its declining budget,
although CACFA's authorization continued until 2001.
3:00:08 PM
AL BARRETTE offered his support for CACFA, noting he is vice
chair of the Fairbanks Advisory Committee and also participates
in the federal subsistence boards. He said CACFA has been very
important in giving information to his organizations so they can
make informed comments and decisions to the Board of Game and
the federal subsistence arena. One federal document weighed 12
pounds, he said, and citizens were expected to read that to make
comments on it. He urged members to support HB 244, saying
CACFA board members are very well informed prior to their
meetings and CACFA is a useful resource.
3:01:47 PM
CO-CHAIR SADDLER closed public testimony after ascertaining no
one else wished to testify.
3:02:04 PM
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON moved to report HB 244 out of committee
with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal
notes.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON objected for discussion purposes, pointing
out that passing HB 244 does not mean the committee supports all
the recommendations included in CACFA's 2013 Annual Report. He
then removed his objection.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said there is not much more the committee
will be doing that is more important than this. He reported he
is the incoming chair of the Council of State Governments (CSG)
West. The western states are terribly overburdened, he said,
and every state in the union is looking at doing something,
except Delaware which has no federal land. Many organizations
are tackling federal overreach. Alaska has the most to lose and
is the most ahead. He said re-implementing CACFA is critical
and he urges passage of HB 244.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER clarified the 2013 Annual Report states
that it is a comprehensive report of the recommendations which
came forward from CACFA and the public. It is not intended that
the committee is approving any or all of the recommendations.
CO-CHAIR SADDLER stated he is impressed with the work of CACFA
and supports its mission. He said there is an unfair contest
between the state and the federal government, and CACFA helps to
balance that contest.
3:06:12 PM
There being no further objection, HB 244 was reported from the
House Resources Standing Committee.
3:06:18 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 3:06 p.m.