02/15/2006 01:00 PM House RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB300 | |
| HJR14 | |
| HB324 | |
| HCR29 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HB 300 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 324 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HJR 14 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| = | HCR 29 | ||
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
February 15, 2006
1:06 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Jay Ramras, Co-Chair
Representative Ralph Samuels, Co-Chair
Representative Jim Elkins
Representative Carl Gatto
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux
Representative Paul Seaton
Representative Harry Crawford
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Kurt Olson
Representative Mary Kapsner
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 300
"An Act relating to the qualifications of the member of the
Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission who need not be
certified, trained, or experienced in either the field of
petroleum engineering or the field of petroleum geology."
- MOVED CSHB 300(O&G) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 14
Urging the United States Congress to pass legislation to convey
land to the University of Alaska.
- MOVED CSHJR 14(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 324
"An Act banning the importation, transfer, and cultivation of
orange hawkweed and purple loosestrife."
- MOVED CSHB 324(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 29
Requesting the commissioner of natural resources to complete a
management plan for the area encompassing the Pebble copper
deposit and requesting a report to the legislature.
- HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 300
SHORT TITLE: OIL & GAS CONSERVATION COMMISSION MEMBER
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KOHRING
05/04/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
05/04/05 (H) O&G, RES
01/24/06 (H) O&G AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 124
01/24/06 (H) Moved CSHB 300(O&G) Out of Committee
01/24/06 (H) MINUTE(O&G)
01/25/06 (H) O&G RPT CS(O&G) 5DP 1NR
01/25/06 (H) DP: GUTTENBERG, SAMUELS, DAHLSTROM,
ROKEBERG, KOHRING;
01/25/06 (H) NR: GARDNER
02/15/06 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HJR 14
SHORT TITLE: URGE CONGRESS TO GRANT LAND TO UNIVERSITY
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) ELKINS
03/01/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
03/01/05 (H) EDU, RES
01/31/06 (H) EDU AT 11:00 AM CAPITOL 106
01/31/06 (H) Moved CSHJR 14(EDU) Out of Committee
01/31/06 (H) MINUTE(EDU)
02/01/06 (H) EDU RPT CS(EDU) 3DP 4NR
02/01/06 (H) DP: LYNN, WILSON, NEUMAN;
02/01/06 (H) NR: SALMON, GATTO, GARA, THOMAS
02/15/06 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 324
SHORT TITLE: BAN ORANGE HAWKWEED/PURPLE LOOSESTRIFE
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) LEDOUX
01/09/06 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 12/30/05
01/09/06 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/09/06 (H) RES, FIN
02/15/06 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HCR 29
SHORT TITLE: PEBBLE COPPER DEPOSIT MANAGEMENT PLAN
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) HAWKER
02/01/06 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/01/06 (H) RES
02/10/06 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
02/10/06 (H) Heard & Held
02/10/06 (H) MINUTE(RES)
02/13/06 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
02/13/06 (H) Heard & Held
02/13/06 (H) MINUTE(RES)
02/15/06 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE VIC KOHRING
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 300 as sponsor.
JOHN NORMAN, Chair
Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission (AOGCC)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 300.
JIM VAN HORN, Staff
to Representative Jim Elkins
Alaska State Legislature
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HJR 14 on behalf of Representative
Elkins, sponsor.
JOE BEEDLE, Vice President of Finance
University of Alaska
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 14.
DICK MYLIUS, Acting Director
Division of Mining, Land and Water
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding HJR 14.
SUZANNE HANCOCK, Staff
to Representative Gabrielle LeDoux
Alaska State Legislature
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 324 on behalf of Representative
LeDoux, sponsor.
KATE TROLL, Executive Director
Alaska Conservation Alliance
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 324.
ERIN WHIPPLE
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 324.
BLITHE BROWN, Noxious and Invasive Plants Coordinator
Kodiak Soil and Water Conservation District
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 324.
VARSHA MATHRANI, Environmental Health Coordinator
Alaska Community Action on Toxics
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 324.
JANICE CHUMLEY, Master Gardener
Kenai Peninsula
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 324.
DOUG WARNER, Manager
Inspection/Marketing Services
Division of Agriculture
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)
Palmer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 324.
JAMIE SNYDER, Invasive Plants Program Assistant
Alaska Cooperative Extension Service
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 324.
BRUCE JENKINS, Chief Operating Officer
Northern Dynasty Mines, Inc.
Vancouver, British Columbia
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HCR 29.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CO-CHAIR JAY RAMRAS called the House Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:06:31 PM. Representatives
Seaton, LeDoux, Gatto, Ramras, and Samuels were present at the
call to order. Representatives Elkins and Crawford arrived as
the meeting was in progress. Representatives Kapsner and Olson
were excused.
HB 300-OIL & GAS CONSERVATION COMMISSION MEMBER
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS announced that the first order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 300, "An Act relating to the qualifications of
the member of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission who
need not be certified, trained, or experienced in either the
field of petroleum engineering or the field of petroleum
geology."
1:07:25 PM
REPRESENTATIVE VIC KOHRING, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor of
HB 300, said that because of the complexity and expansion of the
oil and gas industry, the public seat on the Alaska Oil and Gas
Conservation Commission (AOGCC) ought to have at least some
understanding of the industry. He noted that there are three
seats on the AOGCC and two require expertise in the field.
Currently the third seat doesn't require any kind of petroleum
background. He said it shouldn't be a wide-open spot and an on-
the-job training opportunity.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked what it will do with the current
public member.
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING said that member is doing a good job and
it will have no impact on his position.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked if there have been past problems
that Representative Kohring is trying to fix.
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING said no, but he is looking toward the
future. He said the increased technology requires increased
knowledge, and there is a growing volume of work because of the
growing industry.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON noted that the bill requires familiarity
with the oil and gas industry in the State of Alaska, which is
not a requirement for the other two members.
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING said he does not know why that
stipulation is in the bill.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON suggested taking out that requirement.
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING said he could take that out because
someone qualified may come from the Colorado School of Mines.
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS said geology is geology, but in Alaska things
are different because most land is not privately owned, and he
suggested that the knowledge of Alaska's tax system, for
example, is important. He said the public member should be able
to bring something to the table.
1:14:56 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO suggested the third member should be a
manager or "businessman" because the other two members are
required to have technical knowledge. He asked if current
members have exposure to business matters.
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING said he did not know, but one is an
attorney.
1:16:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said that the term "fundamental
understanding" is general.
1:16:50 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD asked for an explanation of why a public
member is not desired. He spoke of a previous member who did a
fine job of looking out for the public. He pointed out the
original intent of having a public member. "It was a good idea
at the time, and why should we change that?" he asked.
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING said he just thinks that person should
have the expertise because of the technical nature and the
volume of work. He said the person could have some knowledge of
the industry and still advocate for the public.
1:18:44 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said he had to learn about a lot of
issues, but he is a representative of the people and it was up
to him to get up to speed on things that he had no background
in. He said the oil and gas industry develops mindsets and
culture within the industry, and that is why the state wanted to
have the public member.
1:20:04 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING said that the person is not required to
work for the industry.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked about other public commissions where
the members are not required to have a fundamental understanding
of the issues.
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING said he was appointed to the Alaska
Housing Board without much knowledge, and it was a tough
challenge to get up to speed before he could be productive.
1:21:49 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked about the job description of the
commission itself.
1:22:24 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING requested that a commissioner answer that
question.
1:22:58 PM
JOHN NORMAN, Chair, Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission
(AOGCC), said the AOGCC is one of the oldest commissions in the
state. The creation of the AOGCC represented a tremendous
amount of foresight, he noted. He said the makeup of the
commission has evolved over the years, and he has known every
commissioner since statehood and "virtually all" would fit the
requirements of HB 300. He then said that a few were not up to
the level of having minimal understanding of the industry. He
said the bill is a step in the right direction, and it allows
flexibility while still requiring knowledge of the industry. He
said he has had considerable experience in the industry.
1:27:48 PM
MR. NORMAN said every other day, he is "sent back to the books"
to understand the issues. He said there is a framework of
legalities, vocabulary, and other things that need to be
understood. He added that Alaska's regulatory structure and
oversight is respected around the world. The understanding of
the industry does not mean a person is in the pocket of the
industry. He said he has represented Native corporations
against the oil and gas industry. A person's experience need
not be gained in the industry, he stated. He said that holding
hearings is part of the work of the AOGCC, so he thought his law
experience was helpful, "but we are best to leave it that we
have an Alaskan that would represent the public...but I don't
think it's too much to ask that that person have a basic
understanding of the industry." He concluded that a person
would not know the questions to ask if she or he was not
knowledgeable, and that person might be overly suspicious of the
industry. He said all producing states have professional
commissions.
1:33:02 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said that the words "in the state" may
restrict the number of applicants to the commission.
MR. NORMAN said he can support that change, because that
preference will still be in Section 1. He added that Alaska is
unique, so it is desirable to have someone who is from Alaska.
1:35:55 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked what the commission does.
MR. NORMAN said the AOGCC was convened when the industry was
unregulated, and its job is to oversee the orderly development
of oil and gas. It tries to ensure that best engineering
practices and best geologic science is applied. The AOGCC also
convenes hearings for disputes, similar to the Superior Court.
He said the commission oversees every hole in the ground to find
oil or gas and continues oversight until a well is put to bed.
He gave examples.
1:40:38 PM
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS said the committee has an outline of what the
commission does.
1:41:19 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON moved Amendment 1 as follows:
Page 2, lines 26 and 27, after "industry"
Delete:
"in the state"
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS objected.
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING said it takes away the specific
requirement but it doesn't change the intent of the bill.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO noted that the original bill asked for the
public member to be an attorney or be experienced in business
management. He said the current version eliminates all of that,
and it asks for the exact opposite. He asked how that happened.
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING said the original bill contained his
initial thoughts without conversing with other people. He said
he spoke with people in the oil and gas industry and decided to
change it.
1:44:14 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO surmised that the bill started in the House
Committee on Oil and Gas and the entire bill was changed.
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING said he wanted to make sure the bill was
amenable to most interests, including the administration.
1:44:55 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said the current language requires that a
person's training or experience has to have been in Alaska, and
he doesn't think that was the intent.
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Seaton, Gatto and
LeDoux voted in favor of Amendment 1. Representatives Samuels,
Elkins, Ramras and Crawford voted against it. Therefore,
Amendment 1 failed by a vote of 3-4.
1:46:22 PM
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS moved to report CSHB 300(O&G) out of committee
with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal
notes.
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS objected.
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS said there are a lot of people who are
qualified and the bill will "keep a Bill Gates-type person from
setting on the board." He said he cannot support it.
1:47:13 PM
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS said at least the member should understand the
terminology of the industry. He said the person should
understand how the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act or Alaska
taxation works. "You have this huge staff; you get paid a whole
lot of money; you should bring something to the table." He said
the person does not need to be an expert.
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS concurred.
1:48:03 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX said it eviscerates the idea of the public
member. The state has a concept of public membership on
commissions: people who are not part of the industry. She said
she sees this bill as dissolving that concept.
1:48:56 PM
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS said this commission, as well as the Boards of
Fish and Game, don't compare with other boards. The Board of
Real Estate Appraisers is not dealing with tens of billions of
dollars. He said the public should have their seat, but ask
that they understand the terminology. The commission maximizes
hydrocarbon recovery. The public needs a member, but it is not
asking for a very minimal standard of understanding. An
attorney might not have that understanding, he said. The public
member could be a roughneck on the slope who has no ties to the
industry. He said an oil and gas tax lawyer could be a member.
1:50:46 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said he had reservations initially. The
present bill will still leave the appointment to the governor
and legislature. He said Richard Fineberg could be appointed
under this language, so he will not object. He doesn't think it
will change things.
1:52:02 PM
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS said there are three bills to discuss today and
Northern Dynasty will be making a presentation.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said he likes the first version, but he
supports the current version, because the governor can still
choose a person within the oil and gas industry who has a
business background.
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS removed his objection.
Hearing no further objections, CSHB 300(O&G) passed out of the
House Resources Standing Committee.
1:53:15 PM
HJR 14-URGE CONGRESS TO GRANT LAND TO UNIVERSITY
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS announced that next order of business would be
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 14, Urging the United States Congress
to pass legislation to convey land to the University of Alaska.
JIM VAN HORN, Staff to Representative Jim Elkins, sponsor of HJR
14, said the resolution urges Congress to pass legislation to
convey federal land to the University of Alaska. It voices
support for a federal university land bill introduced by Senator
Lisa Murkowski. As the largest landholder in Alaska it is
important that the federal government support the land grant
University of Alaska to make it financially independent. He
referred to the land grant passed by the Alaska State
Legislature last year. This land grant package will give the
university as much as 760,000 acres and make them the envy of
universities around the globe, he said. He said HJR 14 will
tell Congress how important the United States Senate Bill 293 is
to Alaskans. He referred to the committee packet and a report
by Terrence Cole called, "A Land Grant College without the
Land," which stated that from 1917 to 1946, the total revenue to
the university from land sales and rentals was only $227.50 due
to the lack of adequate surveys of land that was originally
conveyed to the university, he said.
1:56:53 PM
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS said the most valuable piece of legislation in
2005 was the university land grant bill. He supports getting
land out of the hands of the public and getting money to the
university.
1:58:02 PM
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS asked about the resolve of line 11 that allows
for public access to fishing streams, and he expressed concern
that land will be eliminated due to this resolve.
MR. VAN HORN said that was inserted by the House Special
Committee on Education. He said the Senate bill is very
specific as to the sideboards in transferring the lands, but the
committee added it and the sponsor had no objection. He said he
has no knowledge of how much land that might entail.
Traditional access should be maintained for fishing and
recreation, he said.
1:59:38 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS said he thought there was a bill last year
that the committee passed that required access to fishing on
state lands.
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS said the bill allowed the state to buy lands
for public access. The fear he has is that, "We want the land,
whether or not there is public access or not, and then we're
going to tell the university not to mess with it. You don't
want the feds to come in here...try to find enough land and stay
50 feet from every stream and every river in Alaska, and every
hunting, dog mushing, motorized vehicle, mining, recreational
trail and try to find a quarter million acres that don't have a
stream running through them." He said he would defer to Joe
Beedle to see if he is reading too much into the wording.
2:01:02 PM
JOE BEEDLE, Vice President of Finance, University of Alaska,
thanked the committee for state land that was given to the
university last year. He said the university is working with
the Alaska congressional delegation on Senate Bill 293.
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS said he would rather tell the university to
provide public access and take care of the streams rather than
tell the "feds" that the state doesn't want those lands.
MR. BEEDLE said the language is a "limiting issue," and the
university agrees with Co-Chair Samuel's assessment. It is
redundant with state regulations, he added. He recommends that
that section be removed and to address the issue in the future.
2:04:20 PM
DICK MYLIUS, Acting Director, Division of Mining, Land and
Water, Department of Natural Resources (DNR), said when the
state acquires land from the federal government, it prefers that
the land be unencumbered. He said the legislature can impose
restrictions for public access. If Congress did deal with such
language, he thinks the state would advocate that it just allows
for certain easements to be reserved to insure public access,
but "you wouldn't want to have some provision where Congress
could actually reject parcels because they want to protect
public access. That would not be a good thing to have."
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS said there needs to be a covenant that
guarantees access after the land is transferred to the
university, and he is not sure the state would have the
authority to require access after the land is transferred to the
university without a covenant in the transfer.
2:06:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked how the legislature could ensure
public access for land that is transferred to the university.
MR. MYLIUS said he does not know.
MR. BEEDLE said the university is subject to the constitution
and the laws of the state. He said there are laws for
anadromous streams that the university would have to follow. He
said the legislature can put on additional restraints.
2:07:49 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS asked if the state would be required to
pay for the access.
MR. BEEDLE said it depends. If it is a protected right, the
university could not charge for it. If it was an additional
right or a special easement such as power lines, the university
could charge for it.
2:08:36 PM
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS said the legislature could do as it sees fit.
2:09:10 PM
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS moved Amendment 1 as follows:
Page 2, lines 11-14:
Delete all material.
Hearing no objections, Amendment 1 carried.
2:09:47 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS moved to report HJR 14, as amended, out of
committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying
fiscal notes. Hearing no objections, CSHJR 14(RES) was moved
out of the House Resources Standing Committee.
HB 324-BAN ORANGE HAWKWEED/PURPLE LOOSESTRIFE
2:10:42 PM
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS announced that the next order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 324, "An Act banning the importation,
transfer, and cultivation of orange hawkweed and purple
loosestrife."
SUZANNE HANCOCK, Staff to Representative Gabrielle LeDoux,
presented HB 324 on behalf of Representative LeDoux, sponsor.
She said the bill bans the exportation of orange hawkweed and
purple loosestrife in response to concerns from constituents.
These invasive plants are devastating because they crowd out
native plants in the wild and cultivated plants in residential
gardens. She noted that purple loosestrife is a threat to
wetlands and waterfowl, and volunteer groups in Kodiak have been
pulling out and disposing of orange hawkweed. She said the
Department of Natural Resources (DNR) would have jurisdiction,
and the bill has the commissioner adopting regulations to
prevent further propagation. She said statute currently lists
many weeds, but it has not kept up with new species. The bill
only applies to those who knowingly plant these weeds, and it
will be a class A misdemeanor, but the intent is not to have
weed police, but to provide education. Representative LeDoux
sponsored the bill because it is good public policy.
2:13:10 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD noted that the two species in the bill
have been listed as the worst offenders. He said there is a
large list of other noxious weeds, so why stop at these two.
MS. HANCOCK said eventually DNR will update the list, but this
is a rapid response to two weeds that are causing serious
problems. She said these weeds are especially pernicious, and
she compared them to kudzu. She added that purple loosestrife
is now choking Chester Creek in Anchorage, and orange hawkweed
is a problem in Kodiak and Yellowstone Park. She noted that DNR
has not been able to keep up, "and these two are...sort of the
poster children of bad weeds."
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said dandelions and vetch can't be
controlled at this point, so "can we control these two species?"
MS. HANCOCK said prevention is part of the goal, and education
of the problem is key. She said communities are destroying the
weeds as a community effort.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO again asked if the weeds can be stopped.
MS. HANCOCK said it is difficult, but the plan is to get ahead
of it. She noted that many states are spending millions of
dollars to eradicate the weeds as well as spending money to
replant areas with native species.
2:17:31 PM
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS asked about the penalty on page 2, line 4.
MS. HANCOCK said it is a class A misdemeanor.
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS asked about adding the word "knowingly" on page
1, line 7, regarding the importation language. He suggested
that seeds may be accidentally brought in.
MS. HANCOCK said that could happen.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX said she doesn't have a problem with that
change. She said the intent is not to be the weed Gestapo. But
in any criminal law she assumes it has to be knowingly.
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS asked about page 1, line 10, regarding the
language "to another person."
2:19:37 PM
KATE TROLL, Executive Director, Alaska Conservation Alliance,
said HB 324 is a good start for Alaska. She noted that orange
hawkweed can harm wildlife and riparian areas, and purple
loosestrife aggressively out-competes native wetland plants.
She noted that there are other invasive species, and that being
proactive can save millions and billions of dollars. She said
in solving one problem it is important not to create another
problem, which would be the use of pesticide, so she asked the
committee to offer an amendment. She suggesting adding: "In
developing these regulations, emphasis should be placed on using
the most strategic and least toxic method of eradication." She
said that wouldn't eliminate the use of pesticides, "but it just
talks about it in the proper context."
2:23:21 PM
ERIN WHIPPLE, Kodiak, said she works for a Native corporation
and strongly supports the bill because it is a huge step forward
in preventing the importation of noxious and invasive species.
She has seen what orange hawkweed can do; it is only 10 inches
high but it can out-compete six-foot [indecipherable] until it
becomes the only species in a field. It serves no purpose,
whatsoever, for native animals, and it out-competes plants that
wildlife depend on. She said Montana has identified 8.2 million
acres infested with noxious weeds, and it will take $47 million
to implement a weed management program "that slows weed spread
and reduces current infestations by 5 percent." She noted that
it will cost billions of dollars considering Alaska's vast
acreage, "if we don't take these first steps now."
2:26:15 PM
BLITHE BROWN, Noxious and Invasive Plants Coordinator, Kodiak
Soil and Water Conservation District, said she is also a
volunteer for the Kodiak National Wildlife Refuge. She noted
that the Karluk Lake area is Kodiak Island's most productive
salmon and bear habitat, and orange hawkweed is showing up
there. Kodiak has made some headway with volunteer efforts, and
has taught people to stop sharing certain plants between
gardeners and to quit planting troublemakers. She said the
problem is larger than Kodiak, and a small community effort
might not be enough. She added that a major method of spread of
the plants is people. Japanese knotweed and spotted knapweed
need to dealt with too. She said the state needs to tie this
bill to a species list that can be changed without a new law or
regulation. She pointed out that current weed laws in Alaska
are agricultural seed laws. The agricultural community is
taking care of their weeds, "but now the rest of Alaska needs to
realize that they too are part of the problem and can be part of
the solution. Orange hawkweed and purple loosestrife do invade
undisturbed habitat; they are not just common garden weeds."
2:28:29 PM
VARSHA MATHRANI, Environmental Health Coordinator, Alaska
Community Action on Toxics, said her group approves of the bill.
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS said the committee has the letter that she is
reading from and asked her is she would like to add anything.
MS. MATHRANI emphasized the importance of prevention and
education about invasive plants and finding integrative, non-
toxic biological and mechanical strategies to eradicate them.
2:30:20 PM
JANICE CHUMLEY, Master Gardener, said she has seen the problems
of plants running amok, including a Homer cemetery that went
from one small orange hawkweed plant to the entire cemetery
being nothing but hawkweed in 15 years. She said she is
concerned about preserving Alaska's wildlands, and she wants HB
324 to be part of an invasive species list that can been grown
without additional legislation. She noted that one small plant
can change fishery and wildlife habitat in the entire state.
DOUG WARNER, Manager, Inspection/Marketing Services, Division of
Agriculture, Department of Natural Resources, said HB 324 may
not be necessary because "it would seem that we have existing
statutory authority to implement some of the regulations
necessary to control it. As this bill moves forward, we begin
the process of updating regulations to include provisions for
the control of weeds" and maybe with a broader perspective where
weeds could be added and taken off a list. He said DNR would
support a more comprehensive package that allows the process of
adding weeds. He said DNR introduced a zero fiscal note because
staffing would remain the same, but he said he doesn't know how
effective DNR can be with a zero fiscal note.
JAMIE SNYDER, Invasive Plants Program Assistant, Cooperative
Extension Service, said prevention is extremely cost efficient--
much cheaper than treatment and restoration after-the-fact.
"This is a great first step to address these two species of
concern while we cross our fingers and hope that state agencies
can develop a functional state noxious weed list."
2:35:18 PM
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS said in order to make the bill consistent "and
so we do not become the weed police," he offered Amendment 1 as
follows:
Page 1, line 7, before "import"
Insert "knowingly"
Hearing no objection, Amendment 1 was adopted.
2:36:06 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX moved to report HB 324, as amended, out of
committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying
fiscal notes. Hearing no objections, CSHB 324(RES) moved out of
the House Resources Standing Committee.
The committee took an at-ease from 2:37:02 PM to 2:38:55 PM.
HCR 29-PEBBLE COPPER DEPOSIT MANAGEMENT PLAN
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS announced that the final order of business would
be HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 29, Requesting the
commissioner of natural resources to complete a management plan
for the area encompassing the Pebble copper deposit and
requesting a report to the legislature.
BRUCE JENKINS, Chief Operating Officer, Northern Dynasty Mines,
Inc, said there will be plenty of opportunity for the public
process and a dialogue on the merits of the Pebble mine project,
"and the risks and the benefits, and that now is not the time to
do that." He gave the committee a letter that addresses some of
the concerns he has about HCR 29, and he said it addresses what
he sees as inflammatory comments from previous testimony. He
said Northern Dynasty Mines is against the resolution because it
provides the mechanism for changing the rules at the end of the
permit process by reclassifying land-use that would prohibit
mining. He said this concern has been validated by some
testifiers "where is was clearly stated that the intention is to
use this resolution as a mechanism to stop the pebble project."
It would create uncertainty and deter the international
investment community, and it would seriously undermine resource
development and investments in Alaska, he concluded.
2:41:53 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said he is an ironworker and he likes
jobs that require ironworkers and welders, and he supports
development of Alaska's natural resources, "but I have a lot of
trepidation here." He said the area is very sensitive, with
millions of spawning salmon, and "there is a lot riding on what
you are doing here." He said he wants Mr. Jenkins to know "how
very much I want you to do this right."
MR. JENKINS said his organization is committed to responsible
mineral development and that is why he was asked to be the Chief
Operating Officer. He has more than 30 years of experience in
controversial resource development, and he has a master's degree
in fisheries ecology. That should be "a signal that we take
this very seriously," he stated. He said he knows of no other
mining company that has a fisheries ecologist in his position
with "more than 30 years of experience in applying that degree."
He noted that his company recognizes the importance of water
quality and preserving the fisheries resource. Contrary to
testifiers, it is possible to have mine development and protect
fish, he said, but there are horror stories in the mining
industry in the last 50 years. "No industry has a perfect track
record," he said, but the mining industry has modern techniques,
modern processes, and a responsible approach to developing mines
properly." He said Northern Dynasty has not even defined its
project or applied for permits. Without that information, "a
reasonable person would look for other precedents." He asked if
there are other case studies. He said he is from British
Columbia and he spoke of the Frasier River system.
2:45:56 PM
MR. JENKINS said the Frasier River has the largest salmon
populations in Canada. He said one of his sister companies
operates a 70,000 ton a day open pit copper mine at Gibraltar,
near Williams Lake. It has operated for 26 years, and Northern
Dynasty purchased it four years ago. It is closer to the
Frasier River than the proposed Pebble mine site would be to the
main stem of Nushagak-Mulchatna River by a large margin, and the
net impact on the Frasier River salmon and the price paid for
them has been zero. Experience doesn't support many of the wild
claims of mine impacts, he said, and he only asks for due
process with science and facts before an independent
adjudicating body. He said he hopes the company will be held as
accountable as anyone else who comments on the project, "and
that's not possible before the permitting process."
2:47:05 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said Mr. Jenkins has an impressive title,
and he spoke of fishermen and the most valuable fisheries in the
world, "and they don't want to see it jeopardized." He said it
is difficult to tell fishermen that he has assurances from the
C.E.O., who is "the one guy who stands to gain the most from
this operation." He asked what would happen if an impact
reached the fisheries.
MR. JENKINS said he is not here to ask anyone to believe what he
says because the facts have not been collected and the project
has not been designed. He is not asking the committee to
believe that the mine will have no impact, because the mine has
not been designed. He said the company will do the best job
with the best environmental and engineering team designing the
project, and then present the project to the permitting process.
Permits will take multiple years with hundreds of experts, and
if the company can't convince people that the project is safe,
"then we don't deserve to get a permit." We are willing and
ready to spend the hundred-plus million dollars, and "we're in
this for the long haul." The project won't get permits if the
company fails the state and federal permitting process.
2:50:15 PM
MR. JENKINS said there are similar mines in other jurisdictions
that have the same water and fish concerns, "and mines have been
developed safely there." He respects the concerns that have
been raised and is factoring them into the project design. He
said to bring concerns to the table during the permitting
process, and the outcome will speak for itself.
2:51:05 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked about an Securities and Exchange
Commission statement that directors and officers would not be
subject to United States courts. She asked if opponents had
taken that out of context.
MR. JENKINS said he "believes it has definitely been taken out
of context because an erroneous spin has been put on that
quotation to create the impression that Canadian executives and
directors have a get-out-of-jail-free card. That is patently
wrong in law and in practice." He said, "It is erroneous to
infer from any peculiarity of a Securities disclosure the
Northern Dynasty Mines is not subject to U.S. or Alaska law."
He said British Columbia has provisions with the State of Alaska
that allows for judgments to be made against British Columbia
citizens. He said, "We're damned if we do, and damned if we
don't," because his company follows the law and provides "these
disclosures because we're required to by the Securities and
Exchange Commission and then we get criticized for doing it."
2:52:49 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX said that [quote] was about insider
trading and derivative action suits, "and things of that nature
as opposed to environmental catastrophe litigation. Wasn't it?"
MR. JENKINS said it was. The assets of the Pebble mine reside
in Alaska and are there to support any damages or claim, and the
multi-billion dollars in the ground are assets. The bond and
cash posted for reclamation will be in Alaska, he noted, "so
there are lots of assets that reside in the state within the
American subsidiary that are available to support any kind of a
claim or action."
2:53:45 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked if it is true that the mine did not
intend to use a chemical pollution mixing zone.
MR. JENKINS said there is no simple answer. He said the current
base case does not envision a surface water discharge. The
project is not known, and the company has found a higher-grade
deposit to the east at greater depth, and it is investigating
underground mining techniques, and "whether that engineering
effort will result in a change, I cannot predict."
2:55:00 PM
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS asked the harm in "just" a resolution.
MR. JENKINS said DNR described how this unprecedented resolution
would work, and he said he still didn't understand if the
process would be parallel to the permitting process; how well it
would work; and how long it would take. "So I don't share the
same degree of confidence that it wouldn't impose delays and
significant additional hurdles." The concerns are delays, risk
of additional expense, and a lack of certainty. He said
Northern Dynasty was invited into the state, and the land is
state-owned and open to mining. The land-use plan confirmed
that the land was zoned for mineral development, and "that
provided us a high degree of certainty." He said the company
knows what is involved in a permitting process, but this
resolution provides a new threshold that creates uncertainty,
"and that threshold is that the Department of Natural Resources
commissioner has to take a report to the legislature at the end
of this process and this expense and this time, and it provides
an opportunity for the zoning to be changed and for the
opportunity for the mine to be taken away, independent of what
the permit review process says. That is a major threat." He
said Northern Dynasty may have made a different conclusion on
acquiring the property and spending $70 million.
2:58:19 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said we all wish there was certainty. He
asked if the resolution sends a bad message to Wall Street,
which raises the interest rate for borrowing money.
2:59:01 PM
MR. JENKINS said he believes this resolution can be walked into
investment houses in New York, Montreal, Montreal, London, Paris
and Zurich-the sources of Northern Dynasty's finances-to present
the case that Alaska is not open to the mining industry and is a
bad place to invest. He said he is not suggesting he gets a
risk-free situation; he is in the risk business and already has
significant uncertainty. The resolution could be the straw that
breaks the camel's back, he surmised.
[HCR 29 was held over.]
3:00:29 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 3:00 PM.
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