05/05/2004 01:15 PM House RES
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
May 5, 2004
1:15 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Nancy Dahlstrom, Co-Chair
Representative Beverly Masek, Co-Chair
Representative Cheryll Heinze, Vice Chair
Representative Carl Gatto
Representative Bob Lynn
Representative Kelly Wolf
Representative David Guttenberg
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Nick Stepovich
Representative Beth Kerttula
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 190(STA)
"An Act adding certain state-owned land and water to the Kenai
River Special Management Area; relating to the mineral estate of
the state-owned land and water in the Kenai River Special
Management Area; relating to the Kenai River Special Management
Area advisory board; and providing for an effective date."
- MOVED HCS CSSB 190(CRA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
CONFIRMATION HEARING(S)
Board of Game
Ben Grussendorf - Sitka
Michael Fleagle - McGrath
- CONFIRMATION(S) ADVANCED
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 190
SHORT TITLE: KENAI RIVER SPECIAL MANAGEMENT AREA
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) WAGONER
04/16/03 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
04/16/03 (S) STA, RES
01/20/04 (S) STA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 211
01/20/04 (S) Moved CSSB 190(STA) Out of Committee
01/20/04 (S) MINUTE(STA)
01/21/04 (S) STA RPT CS 3DP 1NR NEW TITLE
01/21/04 (S) DP: STEVENS G, COWDERY, STEDMAN;
01/21/04 (S) NR: GUESS
02/16/04 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/16/04 (S) Heard & Held
02/16/04 (S) MINUTE(RES)
02/27/04 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/27/04 (S) Moved CSSB 190(STA) Out of Committee
02/27/04 (S) MINUTE(RES)
03/01/04 (S) RES RPT CS(STA) 3DP 1NR
03/01/04 (S) DP: OGAN, STEVENS B, SEEKINS; NR: ELTON
03/05/04 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
03/05/04 (S) VERSION: CSSB 190(STA)
03/08/04 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
03/08/04 (H) CRA, RES
03/23/04 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124
03/23/04 (H) Heard & Held <Assigned to Subcmte>
03/23/04 (H) MINUTE(CRA)
04/29/04 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124
04/29/04 (H) Subcommittee Meeting
03/29/04 (H) MINUTE(CRA)
05/03/04 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124
05/03/04 (H) Moved HCS CSSB 190(CRA) Out of
Committee
05/03/04 (H) MINUTE(CRA)
05/03/04 (H) CRA RPT HCS(CRA) 4DP 2NR
05/03/04 (H) DP: ANDERSON, WOLF, KOOKESH, MORGAN;
05/03/04 (H) NR: SAMUELS, CISSNA
05/05/04 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
WITNESS REGISTER
AMY SEITZ, Staff
to Senator Tom Wagoner
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: During discussion of SB 190, provided
comments and responded to questions on behalf of the sponsor,
Senator Wagoner.
MICHAEL FLEAGLE, Appointee
Board of Game
McGrath, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Board of
Game.
BEN GRUSSENDORF, Appointee
Board of Game
Sitka, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Board of
Game.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 04-26, SIDE A
Number 0001
CO-CHAIR NANCY DAHLSTROM called the House Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:15 p.m. Representatives
Dahlstrom, Masek, Gatto, Lynn, and Wolf were present at the call
to order. Representative Heinze and Guttenberg arrived as the
meeting was in progress.
SB 190 - KENAI RIVER SPECIAL MANAGEMENT AREA
Number 0066
CO-CHAIR DAHLSTROM announced that the first order of business
would be CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 190(STA), "An Act adding certain
state-owned land and water to the Kenai River Special Management
Area; relating to the mineral estate of the state-owned land and
water in the Kenai River Special Management Area; relating to
the Kenai River Special Management Area advisory board; and
providing for an effective date." [Before the committee was HCS
CSSB 190(CRA).]
Number 0093
AMY SEITZ, Staff to Senator Tom Wagoner, Alaska State
Legislature, sponsor, noted on behalf of Senator Wagoner that
the current version of SB 190 adds, to the Kenai River Special
Management Area (KRSMA), 536 acres of land that the state
acquired via the Exxon Valdez oil spill (EVOS) settlement fund.
Number 0164
CO-CHAIR MASEK moved to adopt HCS CSSB 190(CRA) as the work
draft. There being no objection, it was so ordered.
MS. SEITZ went on to say:
So the 536 acres - and then there's just under 30
acres of lands that were inadvertently left out of the
original 1984 bill - those are all wetlands that have
been labeled as critical habitat area. ... It's been a
long process getting to these particular properties.
[Starting] back in 1995, Governor Knowles wanted the
Kenai comprehensive management plan updated, and so
the Kenai River Special Management Area (KRSMA)
advisory board started having meetings in [1997].
They came up with the new plan, which requested just
under 8,000 acres of land be added. The majority of
those lands were up in the upper Kenai River area -
Cooper Landing area, around there.
Through the process, most of those lands were taken
out - 3,500 acres were taken out - due to
complications they would cause with the Chugach
electric powerhouse in Cooper Landing. The other
lands were taken out because there ... [was] a bible
camp on one that would be kicked off, and other issues
like that. So the Senator, when he introduced SB 190,
decided [that] these are the acres that are the most
critical - and the [Alaska Department of Fish & Game
(ADF&G)] has mentioned that. These are the lands that
have the least problems; ... they're already under the
[Division of Parks & Outdoor Recreation] through the
[EVOS]. So that's why we reduced it so drastically
from what they had requested.
MS. SEITZ offered that Section 3, on page 5, clarifies language
currently in statute, and that Section 4, which was altered in
the House Community and Regional Affairs Standing Committee, now
no longer makes any changes to the advisory board.
Number 0446
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF surmised that because the land was purchased
with EVOS funds, the state already owns it.
MS. SEITZ turned attention to [Amendment 1], which read
[original punctuation provided]:
Page 5, line 9,
following " municipalities", insert "adjacent to
the Kenai River"
Page 5, line 10,
Following "groups.", delete "An"
insert "Unless appointed as a representative of a
user group, resident property owners, a municipality
adjacent to the Kenai river, or other interest group,
an"
Page 5, line 12,
Following "board", insert "only as an ex officio
member serving without a vote.
Page 5, line 12,
Following "of the", insert "voting"
Number 0603
REPRESENTATIVE HEINTZ made a motion to adopt Amendment 1.
Number 0605
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF objected, and suggested that Amendment 1
would cause too many members of the KRSMA advisory board to
become ex officio members, and would remove municipal, state,
and federal resource-agency representation from the KRSMA
advisory board, which he characterized as currently being a good
working group with a professional makeup. He mentioned that
with regard to the original version of SB 190, the KRSMA
advisory board supported the addition of the land but refused to
comment on Section 4, which said in part, "An employee, elected
official, or other representative of a federal or state
government may not be appointed to the advisory board.".
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF relayed that agency members and KRSMA
advisory board members have approached him with concerns
regarding making those listed in Section 4 of the original bill
ex officio members and thus removing their ability to
participate fully as voting members.
MS. SEITZ explained:
[Amendment 1] would make the agency representatives ex
officio, all except for the municipality agencies.
They will hold a voting seat: Soldotna, Kenai, and
the Kenai Peninsula Borough, which would represent the
Cooper Landing area - Homer, Seward, all the other
"peninsula" cities. The [ADF&G], Department of
Natural Resources [DNR], [Department of Environmental
Conservation (DEC)] - those ones would be ex officio -
and the Senator wanted ... them ... to have a seat on
the board to discuss the topics because he knows that
they are knowledgeable, ... [that] they are a valuable
part of the ... board.
But ... the advisory board is advisory - it advises
the ... [DNR], so the state will still have a say in
what happens with how the lands are managed - and it
was set up as a citizens' advisory board. By having
the agencies [have] such a big part [with regard to]
voting, the Senator didn't feel like it was a true
citizens' board, so he - along with the [ADF&G] -
thought it would be best to have those agency members
as ex officio. There was another concern brought up
to the Senator, that the wording would make it so the
commissioner of DNR [would be] unable to appoint a
public member who happens to work for the state.
So by opening that up, the commissioner did have the
ability to interpret the language, but that also
opened it up to the ability for someone to challenge
it in court. So the language in ... [Amendment 1] ...
reads, "Unless appointed as a representative of a user
group, resident property owners, a municipality
adjacent to the Kenai river, or other interest
[group]", and then it goes on to say that the agency
members would be ex officio. So that clarifies it -
and this language was given to us by [Legislative
Legal and Research Services] - clarifies it so it's
not opened up to being challenged by court. And the
[DNR] ... requested us to make that clarification.
Number 1048
CO-CHAIR DAHLSTROM sought confirmation that representatives of
the municipal agencies of Soldotna, Kenai, and the Kenai
Peninsula Borough would still have voting rights.
MS. SEITZ confirmed that point.
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF concurred but expressed concern that
adoption of Amendment 1 will result in eliminating various
agencies' voices and their incentive to participate. He
mentioned a few issues that have come before the KRSMA advisory
board. In response to a question, he concurred with Ms. Seitz's
comment that the KRSMA advisory board was set up as a citizens'
advisory board, but mentioned that there is only one ADF&G
representative currently sitting on the board who is not a
resident of the Kenai Peninsula.
MS. SEITZ pointed out that at the most recent KRSMA advisory
board meeting, members voted 10-3 in favor of the language in
Section 4 of CSSB 190(STA), which read in part, "An employee,
elected official, or other representative of a federal or state
government may be appointed to the advisory board as an ex
officio member serving without a vote.".
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked whether Amendment 1 would allow
someone from Palmer to serve as a voting member, and whether
someone who is not "adjacent" to the river would not be able to
serve as a voting member.
MS. SEITZ reiterated that the language in Amendment 1 was
crafted by Legislative Legal and Research Services, and
explained that it is intended to describe those communities that
the Kenai River runs through and directly affects.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO expressed concern with limiting membership
to only those that live adjacent to the Kenai River.
MS. SEITZ offered her belief that the bill only requires
municipality representatives to be from municipalities adjacent
to the Kenai River.
Number 1587
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Heinze and Gatto
voted in favor of Amendment 1. Representatives Wolf, Lynn,
Dahlstrom, and Masek voted against it. Therefore, Amendment 1
failed by a vote of 2-4.
Number 1616
CO-CHAIR MASEK moved to report HCS CSSB 190(CRA) out of
committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying
fiscal notes. There being no objection, HCS CSSB 190(CRA) was
reported from the House Resources Standing Committee.
CO-CHAIR DAHLSTROM turned the gavel over to Co-Chair Masek.
^CONFIRMATION HEARING(S)
^Board of Game
Number 1654
CO-CHAIR MASEK announced that the committee would next consider
the appointment of Michael Fleagle to the Board of Game.
Number 1702
MICHAEL FLEAGLE, Appointee, Board of Game, said that he is
currently serving on the Board of Game, having originally been
appointed by Governor Knowles and then reappointed by both
Governor Knowles and Governor Murkowski. He went on to say:
I find that I enjoy ... working on the Board of Game
and [on] the policies that we set in place for game
management in the state. I have some goals, that I
have of my own, for ... wanting to be on the board and
that I've tried to bring about while on the board, and
one is to restore abundance to game populations, as
we're dictated in statute and also ... to manage on
the sustained-yield principle of the Alaska [State]
Constitution. ... To that end ... I've been a strong
advocate for predator management. I feel that ... the
state is finally back on track as far as managing game
the way that we're supposed to, with a couple of
active control projects going, ... and I take a
certain amount of pride in being involved with the
board then, ... to bring that back into the Alaskan
forefront. ...
I also want to talk about ... trying to resolve some
of the issues that we're seeing cropping up in game
management, and that's ... what's perceived to be
overcrowding by nonresidents, guides, and outfitters
into remote areas of Alaska, and I see that as a
direct result of the diminishing game populations in
other areas. And I think ultimately we can address
that competition through ... trying to restore some of
the populations in places that [have] been depleted.
And that's another goal of mine, ... to try to
minimize the user conflicts and ... maintain overall
healthy game populations and just keep everybody happy
that wants to hunt. Thank you.
CO-CHAIR MASEK raised the issue of Tier II permits and their
problems, and asked Mr. Fleagle to comment.
MR. FLEAGLE said:
I have long advocated, for my area here in the upper
Kuskokwim, that although we probably legally should
have been in the Tier II situation, we've done
everything possible to stay out of it. We just know
how they don't work as intended, and there's a lot of
problems. Unfortunately, the way the Tier II system
is set up in statute under [AS] 16.05.258 and what we
have to work with, there's not a lot that we can do to
try to make it more equitable, except there are some
possible issues that we could address on some of the
questions. And I think the one you're referring to is
the residency requirements. ...
The Board of Game has been sued, I'm personally named
in a lawsuit, I've got personal filings against mining
claims that I hold because of my actions on the board
[regarding] ... not adopting a recommended change that
a person brought to the board, so I'm well aware of
the problem. ... But I think we're on the way to
addressing [it], and we've got a committee of the
Board of Game right now ... that's trying to address
how we can better distribute these permits to our
people that have had a history of getting them [so
they] can get them again, and so we don't [have] the
abuse that we see in the current system. And we do
get reports of people abusing the permit system ...-
all it takes is false statements on an application and
you get a permit, and to people who used to hunt, it's
not fair. I recognize that ...; I'm not promising a
solution, but we're on the way to [trying] to find
one.
Number 2025
CO-CHAIR DAHLSTROM made a motion to advance from committee the
nomination of Michael Fleagle as appointee to the Board of Game.
There being no objection, the confirmation was advanced from the
House Resources Standing Committee.
Number 2051
CO-CHAIR MASEK announced that the committee would next consider
the appointment of Ben Grussendorf to the Board of Game.
Number 2069
BEN GRUSSENDORF, Appointee, Board of Game, offered his belief
that the reason his name has been submitted for reappointment to
the Board of Game is that the advisory committees throughout the
state, the Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC), the Territorial
Sportsmen's Association, the trappers' associations, and the
guide associations all feel that he is competent to do the job
and appreciate his viewpoint. He mentioned his lifelong
interest in game and wilderness issues.
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF asked Mr. Grussendorf to give his views on
bearbaiting and transporting nuisance moose.
MR. GRUSSENDORF, on the issue of bearbaiting, said that he has
no problems with baiting black bears, but remarked that there
should be some understanding, with regard to the location of
such sites, that they won't interfere with other activities or
with communities and residential areas in general. He mentioned
that although he would not personally hunt over bait, he does
see the benefit of doing so for black bear because of the
density of the forest and because of the ability to select the
animal and ensure that it is not a sow or cub. He added,
"Baiting a brown bear, that's another question; it just doesn't
hit me as something that I'd like to see in Alaska."
MR. GRUSSENDORF, on the issue of transporting nuisance moose,
said that it is an interesting idea - though it could be
dangerous - and that he is willing to see it tried as proposed
in Senator Con Bunde's legislation.
Number 2292
CO-CHAIR DAHLSTROM made a motion to advance from committee the
nomination of Ben Grussendorf as appointee to the Board of Game.
There being no objection, the confirmation was advanced from the
House Resources Standing Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
Number 2312
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 1:50 p.m.
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