04/17/2002 01:15 PM House RES
| Audio | Topic |
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
April 17, 2002
1:15 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Drew Scalzi, Co-Chair
Representative Hugh Fate, Vice Chair
Representative Mike Chenault
Representative Lesil McGuire
Representative Mary Kapsner
Representative Beth Kerttula
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Beverly Masek, Co-Chair
Representative Joe Green
Representative Gary Stevens
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 299
"An Act providing for the naming and renaming of Alaska
geographic features."
- HEARD AND HELD
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 32
Encouraging the United States Board on Geographic Names to adopt
place name changes proposed by the Alaska Historical Commission.
- MOVED HJR 32 OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 232
"An Act permitting state residents to purchase remote
recreational cabin sites."
- SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
3d SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 178
"An Act relating to the powers and duties of the commissioner of
fish and game, the Department of Fish and Game, and the Board of
Game, to taking and use of certain game animals, and to
consideration of the budget of the Department of Fish and Game
by the legislature; and providing for an effective date."
- SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 299
SHORT TITLE:ALASKA PLACE NAMES
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)DYSON
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
01/14/02 1953 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 1/4/02
01/14/02 1953 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
01/14/02 1953 (H) CRA, RES
03/19/02 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124
03/19/02 (H) Scheduled But Not Heard
03/26/02 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124
03/26/02 (H) Moved CSHB 299(CRA) Out of
Committee
03/26/02 (H) MINUTE(CRA)
03/27/02 2699 (H) CRA RPT CS(CRA) 5DP 1NR
03/27/02 2699 (H) DP: KERTTULA, SCALZI, HALCRO,
MEYER,
03/27/02 2699 (H) MORGAN; NR: MURKOWSKI
03/27/02 2700 (H) FN1: ZERO(H.CRA/DNR)
04/17/02 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HJR 32
SHORT TITLE:FEDERAL PLACE NAMES
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)DYSON
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
01/22/02 2028 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
01/22/02 2028 (H) CRA, RES
03/26/02 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124
03/26/02 (H) Moved Out of Committee
03/26/02 (H) MINUTE(CRA)
03/27/02 2697 (H) CRA RPT 5DP 1NR
03/27/02 2697 (H) DP: KERTTULA, SCALZI, HALCRO,
MEYER,
03/27/02 2697 (H) MORGAN; NR: MURKOWSKI
03/27/02 2697 (H) FN1: ZERO(H.CRA)
04/17/02 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 104
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as sponsor of HB 299 and HJR 32.
JUDY BITTNER, Chief/State Historic Preservation Officer
Office of History and Archeology
Alaska Historical Commission
Division of Parks & Outdoor Recreation
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)
550 West 7th Avenue, Suite 1310
Anchorage, Alaska 99501-3565
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 299, saying
the commission lacks funding and that the legislation is
unnecessary and complicates the process, among other concerns;
suggested removing Section 3; indicated her testimony on HB 299
applied to HJR 32 as well.
JOAN ANTONSON
Alaska Historical Commission
Division of Parks & Outdoor Recreation
Department of Natural Resources
550 West 7th Avenue, Suite 1310
Anchorage, Alaska 99501-3565
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information relating to HB 299.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 02-32, SIDE A
Number 0001
CO-CHAIR DREW SCALZI called the House Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at approximately 1:15 p.m.
Representatives Scalzi, Fate, Chenault, Kapsner, and Kerttula
were present at the call to order. Representative McGuire
arrived as the meeting was in progress.
HB 299-ALASKA PLACE NAMES
[Contains discussion of HJR 32, the companion resolution]
CO-CHAIR SCALZI announced the first order of business, HOUSE
BILL NO. 299, "An Act providing for the naming and renaming of
Alaska geographic features."
Number 0089
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER, following a request by the sponsor,
moved to adopt [Version F, 22-LS1193\F, Kurtz, 4/11/02, as a
work draft].
CO-CHAIR SCALZI announced that Version F was adopted.
Number 0110
REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor of
HB 299, explained that many Alaska places have been named for
people who have never been in the state. Suggesting many names
are inappropriate, he cited an example of an 1880s expedition in
Southeast Alaska that named a river after a person's high school
drafting teacher; furthermore, members of the Harriman [Alaska]
Expedition had reportedly sat on the ship in what became College
Fiord and argued about whose alma mater the glaciers would be
named after, whereas local people [whose ancestors] had been
there for thousands of years, and others who had lived and
worked in the area, had far more valid names for these features.
He offered further examples, including his own experience
involving "Bainbridge Passage." He then said the bill allows
the naming commission, when commission members deem it
appropriate under their policy, to rename features after
traditional or local Alaska names - "hopefully, mostly Native
names" - or after geographical features that are descriptive.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON reported that he'd met with the naming
commission and that several members would like the authority to
do this but are concerned about not having the resources.
Therefore, page 3, line 14, contains a change such that [the
commission] is no longer required to go out and research the
names that were applied inappropriately, "at least by my
criteria and theirs." Instead, it now says [the commission] can
review a request for changes; people in an area who have what
they believe is a more appropriate name can propose it to the
naming commission, which "can take that up as a course of
business, according to the priorities that they set and the
criteria that they set." He added:
I think this alleviates some of their concern about
being overwhelmed by work. And if you all choose, I
will ask you to zero out the fiscal note at the end of
this, because they will just, under the committee
substitute, be responding to requests for changes, ...
not having to search the entire name base in Alaska to
do it. And that still leaves all the flexibility I
think we need for local folks to propose changes.
Number 0460
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON explained that [HJR 32], his companion
resolution, asks the USGS [U.S. Geological Survey, specifically,
the United States Board on Geographic Names] to give deference
to the names proposed by the naming commission [the Alaska
Historical Commission].
Number 0500
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER inquired about Representative Dyson's
desire to zero out the fiscal note, asking how the public will
know to weigh in, and how the commission will put out
information and then alert people as to the changes.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON indicated that when someone wants a name
now, there are procedures for new or commemorative ones, and the
commission notifies people through its "existing channels." He
remarked, "Folks that are paying attention know about these
things." He suggested perhaps someone from the commission could
advise members about publicizing locally when there is to be a
name change. He added, "I hope ... you'll work with me,
Representative Kapsner, to get out lots of publicity to folks
and get ... people out there actively working on it - elders and
historians - to work on it." Acknowledging the difficulty of
getting money for new things, he stated his intention in the
next budget cycle of getting some resources to [the commission],
which doesn't have the resources to do the work it does already.
Number 0618
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER inquired about any potential private
contributors.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said he hadn't thought of it, but it's a
very good idea.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked who else supports this, such as the
Alaska Historical Society or regional entities.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON offered his sense that the commission is
overwhelmed with its current work. He said no one had argued
against it, and that every Native person he'd talked to about it
was excited about it. He mentioned the difficulty of getting
the work done, plus the philosophical problem in that the USGS,
which is the "depositor and the arbiter of names," doesn't like
this kind of process because of not wanting duplication of names
on maps, coastal pilot [navigational books], and similar
documents.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON explained that the bill anticipates a
transition period of perhaps 20 years; the next time documents
and maps are published, they'll have two names [for each
renamed] feature. He offered his belief that the process is
underway for the [change from Mount McKinley to Mount Denali],
for example. He said he finds most of the Native names in
Alaska "charmingly descriptive" and that although he'd be glad
for the name to be "in the Native pronunciation," he'd like to
have a translation in parentheses.
Number 0855
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER brought attention to page 4, subsection
(c), where new proposed language read:
The commission shall establish a policy regarding the
use of English translations of non-English words and
whether translations, where included, should be
considered a part of the official name. When the
official name under this section differs from the
official federal name, both official names shall be
used, with the federal name in parentheses.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER said that, to her, the foregoing implies
not wanting a Native name. She remarked that she likes [the
bill] in concept, but worries about the details. She asked
whether Representative Dyson intends for the Native words to be
on the map.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON answered yes, but suggested perhaps
modifying the bill to make that clear. He added that he wants
to give deference to the commission and not to "dictate the
details exactly." He expressed hope that the commission will
[develop] a policy that makes sense. He specified, "I never
intended to not use the Native words."
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER highlighted the importance of honoring
the Native villages in her region that go by Native names.
Number 1005
JUDY BITTNER, Chief/State Historic Preservation Officer, Office
of History and Archeology, Alaska Historical Commission,
Division of Parks & Outdoor Recreation, Department of Natural
Resources (DNR), testified via teleconference. She began by
thanking Representative Dyson for meeting with the Alaska
Historical Commission in Juneau; she said the commission had
discussed this in detail. Noting that the commission serves as
the state review board to the [United States Board on Geographic
Names under the USGS], she said that whenever there is a
proposal for a name change or a name for an unnamed feature, it
goes before the commission, which applies "the USGS board
guidelines as well as the other guidelines that they proposed
and adopted in 1998."
MS. BITTNER told the committee that the commission doesn't
support the bill. The commission believes it can address the
interests and concerns about use of local and Native names under
the existing process, which contains guidelines for
[commemorative], descriptive, and Native names. The commission
believes this bill isn't necessary and that it unnecessarily
complicates the process and will lead to duplicate maps. Ms.
Bittner noted that another process in place allows for appeal of
decisions.
Number 1141
MS. BITTNER explained that the commission was given this
responsibility in 1993 through an executive order. At that time
there was a backlog of about 70 place names; the commission was
able to bring those up to date and to review 257 place names.
There have only been disagreements on 7 of those decisions
between the state board and the United States board, she
reported; she doesn't believe, as the bill implies, "that we
have ongoing conflict between the state and the federal
government in terms of mapping and place names." She explained:
At the time we received this program in 1993, we
received no funding and no staff or anything to
administer it. ... We have a minimum program. We
respond to the proposals that come in. We write the
letters to the local governments, ... Native
corporations, the landowners, and other organizations
that have brought ... to our attention that they are
interested in name proposals, such as the
mountaineering groups. We do not have ... the funding
or ability to hold public hearings or publish, in any
way, the names once they are finished, other than on
our web site.
MS. BITTNER said the commission doesn't think it is appropriate
for the state to "decide and go around ... the state to change
the names." She said it's a long history, and how the U.S. has
established names over time has changed, through policy; names
in the state reflect that. She emphasized that if there is a
change [desired] by local residents in any area, it is possible
under existing guidelines to change that name. "Just arbitrary
changes are not supported, and I don't think will make it
through the federal board," she added.
Number 1311
MS. BITTNER also expressed concern about ending up with two sets
of maps: one state map and one federal map. She questioned
whether the federal government would put either state or federal
names in parentheses, and said it isn't the federal policy to
put phrases on maps, "just because of the map clutter." If
there are two sets of maps, it will be confusing for search-and-
rescue personnel, scientists, and people doing business and
conducting research in Alaska. Furthermore, there will be a
fiscal note for DNR to set up these separate [sets] of maps and
make those available, as well as for having a staff person on
the commission staff to handle all the requirements of these
name-change proposals.
MS. BITTNER closed by reiterating that there is a process and
procedure in place. "We have dealt with a number of Native name
proposals," she said, mentioning recent proposals for the
Pribilof Islands for which the Native names were considered and
adopted by the state board. "So I do not think that we need in
statute a directive to use translations, ... or otherwise, ...
what kind of names," she said. "I think it's best left up to
the ... guidelines and policy, which were developed through a
public process by the ... commission."
Number 1446
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked what the policy is now, with
regard to which language is used, if there is a Native Alaskan
name.
MS. BITTNER answered that stated in the policy is that for a
Native American name, the commission will consider it if the
name is in "common local usage and that use is documented; that
the name is pronounceable without considerable difficulty; that
the name is linguistically appropriate to the area in which it
is to be applied; and the landowner, if on Native land, supports
the proposed name in writing."
Number 1526
MS. BITTNER, in response to a question from Representative
Kerttula about where the bill addresses "phrases," referred to
page 4, subsection (c), which says the commission shall
establish a policy regarding English translations and [whether
translations], where included, should be part of the official
name. She said that "part of the official name" and translation
would be part of the proposal and how it goes forward, and then
would become part of the name. She interpreted that section to
say, "We are to request that the phrase be part of the name."
She added, "And just in terms of maps and map clutter that's on
the map itself, ... it's just not practical and would not work."
MS. BITTNER encouraged having place-name studies and funding
"the Alaska Native language center and some of the other groups
that are actively pursuing place-name studies." She highlighted
the importance of having a way to get at that information,
particularly as elders in the Native communities pass away,
taking with them the language and language use. She pointed out
that it is in place-name books that one can find out that
information; it doesn't have to be on the official state or
federal map.
Number 1614
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked what was on the map Representative
Dyson had used for Bainbridge Passage. She said it sounds as if
there already are maps that have both names.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON clarified that another guidebook had
contained the local name and its translation; it wasn't on the
map.
Number 1653
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked Ms. Bittner, with regard to the
criteria she had listed, what the guidelines are for
"pronounceable." She said half of the villages in her own
region arguably could be called unpronounceable, and yet people
still use them. She also cited Dzantik'i Heeni Middle School in
Juneau as an example where there had been controversy over
giving it that Tlingit name because many people found it
unpronounceable. She cited a further example.
MS. BITTNER answered that it reflects "guidance from the federal
guidelines, and because of all those examples you just gave,
just about anything is pronounceable." She added, "As we worked
through the Pribilof names and worked with ... the Native
corporation, ... proposers there, we think that people -
particularly in that area and the use area - can and will learn
the ... names, particularly if it's in local use." She said it
isn't a very high bar.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER remarked that she thought it would be an
"easy out" if someone wanted one.
MS. BITTNER replied that it would be, but the commission is
[composed of] citizen members from around the state who take
this very seriously; they are very knowledgeable and have spent
a lot of time in Alaska. "I think it is a really good citizen
sounding board, and ... represents lots of different points of
view," she said, adding that she is comfortable that there is a
citizens' commission, rather than just a state office that makes
these decisions. She suggested it ensures that many points of
view in the public are brought forward. "And they're very
sensitive to ... the Native place names," she added.
Number 1781
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked whether Ms. Bittner thought
Representative Dyson's idea of a transition period might help
with her concerns, or whether it just isn't enough.
MS. BITTNER replied:
No, I do find this confusing. I do not support a
separate set of names on state maps. I think Alaska
has used the USGS maps ... for kind of the basis for
their commerce and science and research, and I think
it's used ... for navigation, search and rescue. I
don't see it [as] necessary, and I think that there's
so few times when there is a difference of opinion
between the state and the federal government that
requiring this kind of separate set of maps is not
necessary. And even this transitional time will
transition to two sets of maps, and I think we end up
in a place we don't want to be.
Number 1846
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked whether the USGS map would just
supersede an Alaska map and take precedence, however.
MS. BITTNER answered that she believed it would create confusion
within the state. She reiterated her preference that there be
place-name studies so that people would know the different names
used by different people, including different groups of Natives
that might use different names for one place. She mentioned
perhaps documenting them on maps, but not necessarily on
official state maps.
CO-CHAIR SCALZI called an at-ease at 1:42 p.m. He called the
meeting back to order at 1:45 p.m.
Number 1932
REPRESENTATIVE FATE asked Representative Dyson whether he
believes this bill would require two [sets] of maps. He asked
about "deleting the possibility of two maps and have a
transition period."
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON replied that he'd never intended that there
be duplicate documents or maps. He noted that the last
[sentence] of the bill says, "When the official name under this
section differs from the official federal name, both official
names shall be used, with the federal name in parentheses." He
indicated the bill drafter had added the phrase, "with the
federal name in parentheses." Representative Dyson said:
If we need to have the state name in parentheses
during a five- or fifty-year transition period, that's
fine with me. I just want both names recorded, and to
begin the process of giving deference to Alaska names,
instead of hundreds of people who never even thought
about this place being commemorated and cast in stone
in our names.
Number 1998
CO-CHAIR SCALZI requested confirmation that the bill is just for
nominations through the commission process, which already
occurs, but that it would mandate [action] if there were a
nomination.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON conveyed a high degree of respect for Ms.
Bittner and the job she has done, adding that much of her
concern is well justified. He indicated his intent of getting
started [with renaming]. He offered his reading of the law that
[the commission] isn't authorized to begin the process of
renaming, but will consider a change if the current name is
derogatory [towards] a racial, ethnic, gender, or religious
group; if the current name is duplicative or causes confusion;
or if evidence of extensive local support by authorities and
residents is provided.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said he wants to put in statute that [the
commission] has authority to consider name changes "because they
are inappropriate, because they don't reflect Alaskan character
and people who've made an investment in Alaska and so on." He
added, "I think Ms. Bittner is right that they do ... have
authority if it has ... extensive local support, and I'm wanting
to strengthen their case ... in commemorating Alaskan
contributions and local usage."
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON told members that the federal government
believes it is "the czar of all names," and believes that if it
has a particular name on its documents, the name should remain.
Representative Dyson said he wants to start a transition period,
and that the accompanying resolution encourages the federal
government, in contrast to its longstanding policy, to give
deference to the Alaska naming commission's recommendations.
Number 2183
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE commended Representative Dyson for even
challenging the legislature to consider this issue and to
consider the honor that names bring.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON mentioned what he called the arrogance of
explorers in renaming features that local people had already
named.
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE remarked that there already is confusion
over names because of local names or nicknames for features that
have official names on maps.
Number 2359
JOAN ANTONSON, Alaska Historical Commission, Division of Parks &
Outdoor Recreation, Department of Natural Resources, testified
via teleconference. She suggested that private mapmakers might
be willing to put in names and their translations in parentheses
in order to help build a case for a reason to change names used
by both the state and federal governments. She said the federal
government adheres to six principles; the most difficult for the
state is the recognition of only one official name for a
feature.
CO-CHAIR SCALZI thanked Ms. Antonson, noting that the charts
from NOAA [National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration] are
federal ones.
Number 2454
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked whether Mount Denali is still
officially Mount McKinley.
MS. BITTNER answered in the affirmative.
CO-CHAIR SCALZI asked whether this bill would help change that.
MS. BITTNER said it would make no difference. She added, "The
Ohio delegation introduces a bill in Congress at the start of
every legislative session to keep the names. And when there's
legislation pending, the U.S. board will not consider ... a
proposed name change."
Number 2498
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked how often Native Alaskan names are
proposed and then either accepted or rejected.
MS. BITTNER replied that last year two Tlingit place names in
the Glacier Bay area, for Glacier Bay and the Inian Islands,
were forwarded and are under consideration at the U.S. board.
In addition, she said, "We were working with folks in the Chevak
area, but they chose to withdraw ... the proposals for about 54
names and do some more grassroots work for agreement with the
neighboring communities on names, and for agreement even within
the village." Ms. Bittner reported that she also has worked
with people in the North Slope Borough who are working on place
names and trying to resolve differences in spelling and
pronunciation among some of the different groups in that area.
She said, "If they do ever finish their work, we may see 1,200
Native-name proposals." With regard to the Pribilof Islands,
she indicated the commission is working on about 70 names for
that area. She explained:
The federal government has never done large-scale
maps, like 1:25,000-scale maps, in great detail for
the islands. And since they were, they wanted to work
with the community and with the state and federal
boards on recognizing locally used and locally known
names, many of which are Native names that have been
proposed.
CO-CHAIR SCALZI asked whether anyone in the audience wished to
testify on the bill; there was no response.
Number 2600
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON informed Ms. Bittner that [Version F]
removes the requirement [that the commission] search out names,
and puts it in the position of just responding to those brought
before the commission, in deference to her valid concern about
the workload and so forth. He said he sees the legislation now
as doing two things: the resolution [HJR 32] "hopefully will
start something that might spread that would give more
flexibility in making name changes"; in addition, this would be
a policy statement that Alaskans want to move towards having
geographic names that honor Alaskans, rather than being "the
sometimes somewhat arrogant imposition of kind of an invading
culture that was very insensitive." He said he sees it more as
a policy statement "strengthening your ability to come up with
your own policy and regulations for making name changes when you
all believe it's appropriate." He asked, "Does that give you
any comfort?"
MS. BITTNER replied, "I think we have those authorities right
now and that our policies address that ... as it currently
stands. I think ... Section 3, directing us to use names in
parentheses, ... should be removed."
CO-CHAIR SCALZI closed public testimony.
Number 2764
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA offered conceptual Amendment 1, on page
4 [beginning at line 4 of subsection (c)]: "something in the
nature of 'the commission shall use the original language for
chosen names', and then maybe allow them to set a policy on
using the English translations along with it." She indicated
the need to perhaps check with Ms. Bittner for more proper
wording, noting that the statutes say things like "using Native
language writing systems that are accepted by the university."
She also indicated the theory behind her amendment is to use
"the original Native language".
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER suggested not using "original".
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA corrected the amendment to say, "use the
Native language for chosen names." She then clarified
conceptual Amendment 1 as she had just amended it:
It would be, "The commission shall use the Native
language for chosen names and"; then it would continue
as it is; then, "The commission shall establish a
policy regarding the use of the English translation",
... and it would continue on. So they would have the
Native language, but they could set a policy about
using translations.
CO-CHAIR SCALZI offered his understanding, then, that it could
be the original Native language, it could be a translation, or
it could remain as it is.
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA replied, "Actually, it would be the
Native language for sure. And then maybe there would be a
translation included, probably in parentheses."
Number 2913
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON spoke to conceptual Amendment 1 and his
intention with the legislation. He said he'd thought about
these issues, and wants to give as much flexibility as possible
to the commission, its policies, and regulations, "because
they're really experienced." For example, he doesn't want to
force the renaming of Juneau if someone proposes the Native name
and its use has been documented. [Not on the tape, but taken
from the Gavel to Gavel recording, is that unless there is good
cause, his intention is to have the default be the Native or
local name.]
TAPE 02-32, SIDE B
Number 2967
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA said she understood the sponsor's
concern. She noted that the language had been changed so that
the commission would review requests and that [changes] aren't
mandatory; that protection therefore is still in the statute.
She also said she wasn't positive whether the section being
amended was only for new names or was for renamings as well.
She added that she felt comfortable with [the commission's]
having flexibility for reviewing the requests, and that there
isn't a mandate [to change a name]; therefore, she felt
comfortable with the amendment. In response to Co-Chair Scalzi,
she reiterated her amendment, clarifying that the name would
have to be a Native name, but it would be for a chosen name.
"They don't have to choose this name and, moreover, ... the
commission's just reviewing the request for changes," she added.
Number 2860
MS. BITTNER brought attention to Section 2, subsection (b)
[page 3], which says [beginning on line 18], "The commission
shall consider using Alaska Native place names for geographic
features in the state [THAT HAVE NOT PREVIOUSLY BEEN NAMED]".
She asked whether that covers it, since it already is in the
existing [statutory] language.
CO-CHAIR SCALZI said it probably does.
MS. BITTNER noted that that subsection goes on about the Native
writing systems.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER said it is permissive, since it says
"shall consider", whereas [conceptual Amendment 1, as amended]
says "shall use" the Native language.
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT pointed out that line 13 under that
subsection says "shall select names" [that have a direct
connection with Alaska or Alaska's peoples].
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA said there are only about three
standards.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER concurred that there are only three
standards now.
CO-CHAIR SCALZI called an at-ease at 2:09 p.m. He called the
meeting back to order at 2:11 p.m.
Number 2797
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA withdrew conceptual Amendment 1. She
said she doesn't think it actually belongs in that section.
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA moved to adopt Amendment 2 for
discussion purposes, acknowledging that the sponsor didn't agree
with it. She told members:
I don't think that this section that we had it in was
the right place. I do think - and it was Ms. Bittner,
as she points out - on page 3, at line 18 [Section 2,
subsection (b)], the language says now, "The
commission shall consider using Alaska Native place
names [specifically, "names that have a direct
connection with Alaska or Alaska's peoples"], and if
we wanted to make it mandatory, we would say, "The
commission shall use Alaska Native place names".
Number 2760
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT objected for discussion purposes.
CO-CHAIR SCALZI also objected, saying it restricts the ability
of the commission to also consider names of early pioneers who
may not be Native. He said he didn't believe it allowed
latitude. Requesting a roll call vote, he specified that the
conceptual amendment would change line 18 to say, "The
commission shall use Alaska Native place names".
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Kapsner and
Kerttula voted for conceptual Amendment 2. Representatives
Fate, Chenault, and Scalzi voted against it. [Representatives
Masek, Green, Stevens, and McGuire were absent.] Therefore,
conceptual Amendment 2 failed by a vote of 2-3.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER offered Amendment 3, relating to language
in Section 2, page 3, [beginning on] line 14, that read:
The commission shall review requests for changes to
existing official names of geographic features to
identify the names that do not have a direct
connection with Alaska or Alaska's peoples, review
alternative names that have been used for the places,
and rename the places with names that have a direct
connection with Alaska or Alaska's peoples.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER expressed concern that without a fiscal
note, she wasn't sure how the Alaska Historical Commission would
find the manpower or resources to do this. [Therefore, she
later specified that her amendment would change "shall" to "may"
on line 14.]
Number 2641
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON responded that it is a legitimate problem,
but that the commission has very limited staff now, and is in
the business of responding to names that come before them for
changes, for commemorative purposes, and so forth. Surmising
that there would be more requests for name changes if the bill
passes, he stated his intention of trying to get another staff
position [for the commission] next year, in the next budget
cycle.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER inquired about changing the "shall" to
"may" in light of that, on line 14 [so that it would read "may
review requests"] or having a delayed effective date. She asked
what the sponsor envisioned as the timeline for the commission
to complete this work.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON answered that the work will never be
completed. This process will go on for a long, long time; it is
just a process that the legislature would be authorizing [the
commission] to give more attention to. He said he would choose
to leave it "shall". He explained, "[If] some group proposes a
name that's more appropriate than an existing name, ... I want
[the commission] at some point, in the priorities that they
decide within their own policy, to consider that. And I trust
them to use a good sense of priorities."
Number 2555
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER withdrew [Amendment 3], specifying that
it was to change "shall" to "may" in light of the zero fiscal
note.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked Ms. Bittner what would happen if
the bill passed without appropriate funding.
MS. BITTNER replied that she'd have to discuss it with the
commission and incorporate the directives and mandates into the
policy; there would have to be public review of the policy, as
well as alerting those affected - such as [the Department of]
Public Safety - that this is coming. She added, "We will do the
best we can, since we don't have staff and it's never been
funded. We can't be very active at it, but it will be on the
books, and when we do get proposals, we will have to take the
direction that is in this law."
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON nonetheless encouraged the committee to
zero the existing fiscal note out.
Number 2465
REPRESENTATIVE FATE moved to report CSHB 299 [version 22-
LS1193\F, Kurtz, 4/11/02] out of committee with individual
recommendations and "the suggested zero fiscal note."
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER objected, specifying that it was because
of the zero fiscal note.
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA clarified that she supports the idea of
the legislation, but having heard Ms. Bittner's testimony,
believes the commission deserves funds to carry it out.
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Fate, Chenault, and
Scalzi voted to move the bill from committee. Representatives
Kapsner and Kerttula voted against it. [Representatives Green,
McGuire, Stevens, and Masek were absent.] Therefore [because a
majority of the members did not vote to report it from
committee] CSHB 299(RES) failed to move out of the House
Resources Standing Committee by a vote of 3-2.
[The committee's action in failing to move the bill out of
committee was rescinded later in the meeting.]
HJR 32-FEDERAL PLACE NAMES
Number 2359
CO-CHAIR SCALZI announced the next order of business, HOUSE
JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 32, Encouraging the United States Board on
Geographic Names to adopt place name changes proposed by the
Alaska Historical Commission.
[There was a motion to adopt HJR 32, but it was already before
the committee.]
CO-CHAIR SCALZI asked whether anyone wished to testify; there
was no response. He then specifically asked Ms. Bittner whether
she wished to testify.
JUDY BITTNER, Chief/State Historic Preservation Officer, Office
of History and Archeology, Alaska Historical Commission,
Division of Parks & Outdoor Recreation, Department of Natural
Resources (DNR), offered via teleconference to answer questions
and informed members that her testimony [in opposition to HB 299
that day] covered this resolution as well.
CO-CHAIR SCALZI noted that the resolution speaks to the issue
the committee had just addressed [HB 299]. He read from the "Be
it resolved" clause [page 2 of HJR 32].
Number 2258
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER moved to report HJR 32 out of committee
with individual recommendations and the attached zero fiscal
note.
Number 2248
REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor,
offered his belief that without the bill [HB 299, Version F,
which had just failed to move from committee], the resolution
was moot. He therefore encouraged the committee not to pass it.
CO-CHAIR SCALZI called an at-ease from 2:24 p.m. to 2:25 p.m.
Number 2211
CO-CHAIR SCALZI asked whether there was any objection to the
motion. There being no objection, HJR 32 was moved out of the
House Resources Standing Committee.
HB 299-ALASKA PLACE NAMES
CO-CHAIR SCALZI again brought before the committee HOUSE BILL
NO. 299, "An Act providing for the naming and renaming of Alaska
geographic features."
Number 2203
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA moved to rescind the committee's action
that day in failing to move out of committee [Version F, 22-
LS1193\F, Kurtz, 4/11/02, with a zeroed-out fiscal note]. She
explained her belief that everyone wants appropriate
[geographical place names], but that it is more complicated than
expected. With regard to the fiscal note, she expressed hope
that some middle ground could be found. She suggested
rescinding the action, holding the bill over, and talking to Ms.
Bittner to try to reach a compromise.
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Kapsner, Kerttula,
Fate, Chenault, and Scalzi voted to rescind the committee's
action in failing to move Version F from committee. No one
voted against it. Therefore, the committee's action in failing
to move Version F from committee was rescinded by a vote of 5-0.
[HB 299 was held over.]
ADJOURNMENT
Number 2057
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:28 p.m.
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