03/15/2002 01:09 PM House RES

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE March 15, 2002 1:09 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Beverly Masek, Co-Chair Representative Drew Scalzi, Co-Chair Representative Hugh Fate, Vice Chair Representative Joe Green Representative Mike Chenault Representative Lesil McGuire Representative Gary Stevens Representative Mary Kapsner Representative Beth Kerttula MEMBERS ABSENT All members present COMMITTEE CALENDAR HOUSE BILL NO. 462 "An Act relating to the release of certain confidential records and reports concerning fishing, fish buying, or fish processing; and providing for an effective date." - HEARD AND HELD HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 44 Urging the President of the United States, the United States Congress, and appropriate federal officials to support the construction and operation of the Alaska Highway Natural Gas Pipeline route. - MOVED CSHJR 44(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE SENATE BILL NO. 115 "An Act extending the termination date of the Board of Storage Tank Assistance." - MOVED SB 115 OUT OF COMMITTEE CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 153(FIN) "An Act replacing the storage tank assistance fund with the underground storage tank revolving loan fund and relating to that revolving loan fund; repealing the tank cleanup program and the tank upgrading and closure program; and providing for an effective date." - MOVED CSSB 153(FIN) OUT OF COMMITTEE HOUSE BILL NO. 503 "An Act relating to evaluating state assumption of the wastewater discharge program under the federal Clean Water Act; and providing for an effective date." - MOVED CSHB 503(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE HOUSE BILL NO. 376 "An Act relating to management of fish and game in and on the navigable waters and submerged lands of Alaska." - MOVED HB 376 OUT OF COMMITTEE HOUSE BILL NO. 232 "An Act permitting state residents to purchase remote recreational cabin sites." - BILL HEARING POSTPONED TO 3/18/02 PREVIOUS ACTION BILL: HB 462 SHORT TITLE:CONFIDENTIALITY OF FISHING RECORDS SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)STEVENS Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action 02/19/02 2312 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS 02/19/02 2312 (H) FSH, RES 03/04/02 (H) FSH AT 3:30 PM CAPITOL 124 03/04/02 (H) Moved Out of Committee 03/04/02 (H) MINUTE(FSH) 03/06/02 2486 (H) FSH RPT 2DP 3NR 03/06/02 2486 (H) DP: SCALZI, STEVENS; NR: COGHILL, 03/06/02 2486 (H) KAPSNER, KERTTULA 03/06/02 2486 (H) FN1: ZERO(DFG) 03/06/02 2486 (H) FN2: ZERO(DPS) 03/15/02 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124 BILL: HJR 44 SHORT TITLE:ALASKA NATURAL GAS PIPELINE ROUTE SPONSOR(S): OIL & GAS BY REQUEST OF NATURAL GAS Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action 02/19/02 2307 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS 02/19/02 2307 (H) O&G, RES 03/05/02 (H) O&G AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 124 03/05/02 (H) Moved CSHJR 44(O&G) Out of Committee 03/05/02 (H) MINUTE(O&G) 03/06/02 2483 (H) FN1: ZERO(H.O&G) 03/06/02 2483 (H) O&G RPT CS(O&G) NT 5DP 1NR 03/06/02 2483 (H) DP: CHENAULT, FATE, GUESS, JOULE, OGAN, 03/06/02 2483 (H) NR: KOHRING 03/13/02 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124 03/13/02 (H) -- Meeting Canceled -- 03/15/02 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124 BILL: SB 115 SHORT TITLE:EXTEND BOARD OF STORAGE TANK ASSISTANCE SPONSOR(S): RLS BY REQUEST OF LEG BUDGET & Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action 02/22/01 0474 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS 02/22/01 0474 (S) RES, FIN 04/06/01 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205 -- Meeting Canceled -- 04/20/01 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205 04/20/01 (S) Heard & Held 04/20/01 (S) MINUTE(RES) 04/23/01 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205 04/23/01 (S) Moved Out of Committee 04/23/01 (S) MINUTE(RES) 04/24/01 1234 (S) RES RPT 2DP 3NR 04/24/01 1234 (S) DP: TORGERSON, TAYLOR; 04/24/01 1234 (S) NR: HALFORD, LINCOLN, ELTON 04/24/01 1234 (S) FN1: (DEC) 04/26/01 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532 04/26/01 (S) Scheduled But Not Heard 04/26/01 (S) FIN AT 6:00 PM SENATE FINANCE 532 04/26/01 (S) Scheduled But Not Heard 01/31/02 (S) FIN AT 9:30 AM SENATE FINANCE 532

01/31/02 (S) Heard & Held

01/31/02 (S) MINUTE(FIN) 02/06/02 (S) FIN AT 9:30 AM SENATE FINANCE 532 02/06/02 (S) Moved Out of Committee 02/06/02 (S) MINUTE(FIN) 02/06/02 2121 (S) FIN RPT 8DP 02/06/02 2121 (S) DP: DONLEY, KELLY, AUSTERMAN, HOFFMAN, 02/06/02 2121 (S) OLSON, WILKEN, LEMAN, WARD 02/06/02 2121 (S) FN2: (DEC) 02/11/02 (S) RLS AT 10:30 AM FAHRENKAMP 203 02/11/02 (S) MINUTE(RLS) 02/11/02 2154 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR 1OR 2/11/02 02/11/02 2156 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME 02/11/02 2156 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN CONSENT 02/11/02 2156 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME SB 115 02/11/02 2156 (S) PASSED Y19 N- A1 02/11/02 2159 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H) 02/11/02 2159 (S) VERSION: SB 115 02/13/02 2219 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS 02/13/02 2219 (H) RES, FIN 03/13/02 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124 03/13/02 (H) -- Meeting Canceled -- 03/15/02 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124 BILL: SB 153 SHORT TITLE:UNDERGROUND STORAGE TANK LOANS & PROGRAM SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) LEMAN Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action 03/21/01 0753 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS 03/21/01 0754 (S) RES, FIN 03/30/01 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205 03/30/01 (S) -- Meeting Canceled -- 04/09/01 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205 04/09/01 (S) -- Meeting Canceled -- 04/20/01 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205 04/20/01 (S) Heard & Held 04/20/01 (S) MINUTE(RES) 04/23/01 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205 04/23/01 (S) Moved CS(RES) Out of Committee 04/23/01 (S) MINUTE(RES) 04/24/01 1236 (S) RES RPT CS 1DP 2DNP 2NR SAME TITLE 04/24/01 1236 (S) DP: TORGERSON; DNP: TAYLOR, HALFORD; 04/24/01 1236 (S) NR: LINCOLN, ELTON 04/24/01 1236 (S) FN1: ZERO(DEC) 04/26/01 (S) FIN AT 6:00 PM SENATE FINANCE 532 04/26/01 (S) Scheduled But Not Heard

01/31/02 (S) FIN AT 9:30 AM SENATE FINANCE 532

01/31/02 (S) Heard & Held

01/31/02 (S) 532 HOFFMAN, 203 UNAN CONSENT PASSAGE REFERRALS BILL: HB SHORT TITLE:WASTEWATER DISCHARGE PROGRAM SPONSOR(S): RESOURCES Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action REFERRALS BILL: HB SHORT TITLE:FISH & GAME IN NAVIGABLE WATERS SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)OGAN Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action REFERRALS Committee WITNESS REGISTER GORDY WILLIAMS, Legislative Liaison Office of the Commissioner Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G) P.O. Box 25526 Juneau, Alaska 99802-5526 POSITION STATEMENT: Addressed concerns and questions relating to HB 462. AL CAIN, Captain Division of Fish & Wildlife Protection Department of Public Safety (DPS) Anchorage, Alaska 99507 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 02-16, SIDE A Number 0001 CO-CHAIR DREW SCALZI called the House Resources Standing Committee meeting to order at 1:09 p.m. Representatives Scalzi, Masek, Kerttula, Kapsner, Stevens, Fate, and McGuire were present at the call to order. Representatives Green and Chenault arrived as the meeting was in progress. HB CO-CHAIR SCALZI announced the first order of business, HOUSE BILL NO. 462, "An Act relating to the release of certain confidential records and reports concerning fishing, fish buying, or fish processing; and providing for an effective date." [There was a motion to adopt 462] or have it sent on [to a designee] by request. MR. WILLIAMS turned attention to [page 2] paragraph (8) and said changes were made for DPS, adding a saltwater charter logbook statewide. He explained that the charter fishing fleet is required to fill out logbooks of catch information; that has been instituted statewide over the last six or seven years. Currently, DPS doesn't have access to [logbooks] without obtaining a court order. However, DPS does have access to fish tickets and fish ticket information, which refers to the commercial fleet. He mentioned that DPS thought it was important information that it would like to have to enforce laws. He reiterated that [HJR CO-CHAIR MASEK announced that the next order of business would be HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 44, Urging the President of the United States, the United States Congress, and appropriate federal officials to support the construction and operation of the Alaska Highway Natural Gas Pipeline route. [Before the committee was CSHJR Number 1269 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN, Alaska State Legislature, presented the sponsor statement for CSHJR Committee. SB [Contains discussion of SB (BSTA)] for an additional two years, from June 30, 2001, to June cease to exist on June 30, 2002, if the legislature chooses not to extend it this year. MS. BRAKES referred to a legislative audit released on December 6, 2000, by the [Joint Committee on Legislative Budget and Audit], performed under legislative oversight statutes. She directed attention to page 11 of the audit report and noted that the legislative auditor lays out the following audit report conclusions: The board should be reestablished, and it plays an integral role in promoting compliance throughout the state with federal regulations related to specifications for underground storage tanks (UST). Compliance is important in promoting public health in that it protects underground drinking water supplies from pollution and provides funding necessary to remediate pollution brought on by leaking USTs owned and operated by private-sector interests. As an independent board, BSTA has been instrumental in mediating disputes between the Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) and tank owners and operators. The board has enhanced cooperation, which promotes compliance with governmental regulations related to the underground tanks. Ms. Brakes said there were no findings or recommendations made on the audit. However, the auditor did recommend that BSTA be extended to June 2003. Number 2239 JOHN BARNETT, Executive Director, Board of Storage Tank Assistance, told the committee he was a private-sector contractor contracted to BSTA. Number 2248 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Barnett whether this is "proper form" when it is past the termination date to extend the date, or whether it has to be "reinstituted." MR. BARNETT answered that BSTA is "sunsetted" but is still in existence and doesn't terminate until June [2002]. On the books, it shows a sunset date of June 30 [2002], so the sunset date has to be reestablished for 2003, which [SB year, [BSTA] would essentially terminate on [June 30, 2004]. He said a loan program would continue, and the need for BSTA would have to be evaluated later; at this time, however, BSTA and the Alaskan underground tank owners and operators are satisfied with this [date]. Number 2372 REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS asked whether the entire annual operating budget of $51,000 included travel and administrative costs. MR. BARNETT answered that BSTA was privatized in 1999 through 128, and the board members and for the sole employee, himself. The actual tank program costs are for the loan program and the grant program, and administration of that is under the operating budget through DEC. CO-CHAIR MASEK closed public testimony. Number 2427 REPRESENTATIVE FATE moved to report SB [Contains discussion of SB revolving loan fund will come the cost for the board." The programs are tied together, and as long as the underground storage tank (UST) program continues, the legislature will continue to decide if it wants to extend the board. She said, "Your conference committee will have to ratify the fiscal note with [SB] 115 with the operating budget for DEC [Department of Environmental Conservation], so that's what's going to happen with that $51,000 fiscal note." MS. KREITZER mentioned a sectional analysis provided to committee members. Since 1990, she said, the state has assisted small businesses to conduct risk assessment; build containment structures; upgrade, close, or install new USTs; and help clean up contamination. She said these efforts have protected water and lands from oil pollution. Furthermore, over $38.9 million has been appropriated since 1991 for this program, which is why there have been so many efforts to streamline the program and get a "handle" on the cost. MS. KREITZER told members, "One of the questions that we get [is]: how are applicants affected by the spill - people who have been waiting for state money to upgrade and close or clean up their underground storage tank site?" She said all applications for grant assistance for any of the programs under [AS] 46.03 had to have already been in; [the program] is not shutting people out, but dealing with existing lists. She said the current Senate Resources Committee chairman had sponsored 128. MS. KREITZER offered the following example of how the costs have been [reduced]: one of the programs was the upgrade and closure grant program, which is phased out completely by SB a revolving loan program. He said the hope is that it will help make the loan program self-sustaining for future remediation costs for long-term monitoring, and so forth, which will extend beyond 2004. MR. BARNETT noted that the bill limits who can get loans from the program. Currently, any company, individual, or business that originally applied for financial assistance in the "window of application" between 1990 and 1994 can get a loan. In 1999, SB 128 could get loans. Consequently, grants were limited to small businesses, but loans were still available to everyone, regardless of the size of the corporation. He said SB Number 2794 MR. BARNETT said [AS 46.03.422] those that don't meet the federal self-insurability test, and it references] the federal C.F.R. [Code of Federal Regulations]. He reiterated that [HB [Contains discussion of SB Therriault. He said [SB 326]. CS [for SB some other problems with the bill that are being addressed. MR. WARWICK indicated [the intention, with both 326, Regular Session of the Twenty-Third Alaska State Legislature." CO-CHAIR MASEK referred to [HB work" and that other federal funding sources would be looked at to bring forward a funding mix to make the program workable. Number 2658 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said the state has primacy on disposal "down-well annuli" from the EPA. He asked: If primacy were [given] and federal funding were not [received], would "we" be gaining enough to offset the general funding used to pay for [the project]? He offered his belief that the process is [designed] to get a quicker turnaround, so that "we" to go through the EPA NPDES permitting and "can do it" by the state. He mentioned concerns about still having "strings attached" by the federal government. He asked if be a similar program and whether there would still be requirements or "strings" from EPA on NPDES; also, would there be a quicker turnaround that would allow programs to move more smoothly? MR. CHAPPLE said, "Correct." He said EPA would still have an oversight role similar to other programs that DEC implements wherein the federal law - in this case, the Clean Water Act (CWA) - has a strong impetus for states to implement those laws, yet the EPA has an oversight role. Mr. Chapple described another program he had implemented, the air quality program with air permits, the authority for which he said is fully delegated to the state. He said [Alaska] makes the decisions, and those decisions made in Alaska give [the state] more opportunities to understand the businesses and the environmental situation. He offered his belief that it is usually a better opportunity to understand what will work best. He said the EPA has an oversight rule, and if it believes the state isn't implementing [the rule] according to the Clean Water Act, then it can take independent enforcement actions or withdraw the delegation. He added that this situation would be similar. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN expressed concern that in regard to air quality, the applicants pay a significant amount of money for the permits. He said he assumes that the [money from the permits] would essentially pay for the costs [of the program]. However, if the [wastewater discharge program] didn't get federal funding, it would be a general-fund expenditure, as opposed to [having applicant fees pay for the costs of the program]. He pointed out that Mr. Chapple had said he was looking for ways to find federal funding. Representative Green asked Mr. Chapple, if [federal funding is not available], whether the state is going to be subject to "a quarter of a million dollars a year" to allow applicants to come to the state for their NPDES. Number 2508 MR. CHAPPLE said the funding in the fiscal note is only to do the implementation plan: that money is to "lay out" the program, to decide whether the state should seek primacy. Mr. Chapple said the Clean Air Act requires that for operating permits in Alaska, the permittees pay 100 percent of the cost, which is in the Clean Air Act. However, a similar requirement is not in the Clean Water Act. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN expressed concern that in the [Clean Air Act] it is "spelled out" and that [permittees] pay for [the program], but in the [Clean Water Act] it is undetermined whether [federal funding would be available] or if the state would have to pay for [the program]. He asked Mr. Chapple: If the program went forward and federal funding wasn't available, what would it cost the state in "years three, four, five, and six?" MR. CHAPPLE answered that he didn't have an understanding of what the program would ultimately cost; additionally, that would be a major piece of what "this" work would provide, including what other funding sources exist such as federal funds to help run the program. He said he didn't have those answers and that it would take a fair amount of work to figure out. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN remarked that [the legislature] is in a "reduction-of-expenditure mode, and here we're spending money to see whether we want to spend more money." MR. CHAPPLE said the policy request [in HB CO-CHAIR MASEK announced that the final order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 376, "An Act relating to management of fish and game in and on the navigable waters and submerged lands of Alaska." CO-CHAIR MASEK noted that Representative Ogan, sponsor of 376, was in previous discussion on ADJOURNMENT There being no further business before the committee, the House Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:29 p.m.

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