Legislature(2001 - 2002)
05/02/2001 01:12 PM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
May 2, 2001
1:12 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Drew Scalzi, Co-Chair
Representative Hugh Fate, Vice Chair
Representative Joe Green
Representative Mike Chenault
Representative Lesil McGuire
Representative Gary Stevens
Representative Mary Kapsner
Representative Beth Kerttula
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Beverly Masek, Co-Chair
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 30
Urging the United States Forest Service to acknowledge all of
the rights of the state to rights-of-way to state highways that
pass through federal land.
- MOVED HCS SJR 30(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: SJR 30
SHORT TITLE:HIGHWAY RIGHTS-OF-WAY IN FEDERAL AREAS
SPONSOR(S): TRANSPORTATION
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
04/27/01 1303 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
04/27/01 1303 (S) RLS
04/28/01 1329 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR 4DP 1OR
4/28/01
04/28/01 1329 (S) DP: PEARCE, THERRIAULT,
COWDERY,
04/28/01 1329 (S) PHILLIPS;
04/28/01 1329 (S) OTHER RECOMMENDATION: ELLIS
04/28/01 1330 (S) FN1: ZERO(S.RLS)
04/28/01 1336 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME
04/28/01 1336 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING
UNAN CONSENT
04/28/01 1336 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME SJR 30
04/28/01 1337 (S) PASSED Y20 N-
04/28/01 1337 (S) ELLIS NOTICE OF
RECONSIDERATION
04/28/01 (S) RLS AT 2:00 PM FAHRENKAMP 203
04/28/01 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
04/30/01 1355 (S) CORRECTED FN1: ZERO(S.RLS)
04/30/01 1381 (S) RECONSIDERATION NOT TAKEN UP
04/30/01 1382 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
04/30/01 1382 (S) VERSION: SJR 30
05/01/01 1423 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
05/01/01 1423 (H) RES
05/02/01 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
WITNESS REGISTER
DON KUBLEY (PH)
Yakutat Lodge
Alaska Airports Incorporated
(No address provided.)
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SJR 30.
DICK BISHOP
Alaska Outdoor Council
1555 Gus's Grind
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 30.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 01-47, SIDE A
Number 0001
CO-CHAIR DREW SCALZI called the House Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:12 p.m. Representatives Scalzi,
Fate, Green, McGuire, Stevens, Kapsner, and Kerttula were
present at the call to order. Representative Chenault arrived
as the meeting was in progress.
SJR 30-HIGHWAY RIGHTS-OF-WAY IN FEDERAL AREAS
CO-CHAIR SCALZI announced that the only order of business before
the committee would be SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 30, Urging
the United States Forest Service to acknowledge all of the
rights of the state to rights-of-way to state highways that pass
through federal land.
[There was an unnecessary motion to place SJR 30 before the
committee as the working document.]
Number 0075
DON KUBLEY (PH), Yakutat Lodge; Alaska Airports Incorporated,
explained that there is one road leading out of Yakutat into the
"hinterlands," which is the Alsac-Dangerous River Highway. That
highway was built and has been maintained by the State of
Alaska. In the 1960s and 1970s the title and right-of-way was
conveyed to the State of Alaska formally. Last December several
of the few folks, outfitters, that were allowed to use the road
on a commercial basis received a letter from the U.S. Forest
Service saying that since this road passes through the Tongass
National Forest, the [Forest Service] owns it. Furthermore, the
letter said that no commercial business would be done on this
highway unless they issued permits. Moreover, the letter said
no permits would be issued. Therefore, there was much concern
in Yakutat, especially from the sports fishermen and the guides.
In particular, this was of concern for the Yakutat Lodge, which
has been in business for over 20 years. [The owner] of the
Yakutat Lodge, former Senator Fanning, knew better and thus the
committee has SJR 30 before it. Mr. Kubley said, "This is a
very black and white state's rights issue. We own the road. We
own the access to the easement on either side of it."
MR. KUBLEY posed a situation in which a person wants to go
fishing on the Situk River. If an outfitter helps put a boat on
a trailer or drives it to the river, puts it in the river, or
helps take the boat out of the river, then it is considered a
guided trip and thus a permit from the Forest Service is
required. "Well, that's absolutely wrong," charged Mr. Kubley.
He pointed out that this river is a navigable river that was
conveyed to the state during statehood and yet there are Forest
Service agents on the river stopping boats on their way down and
questioning them regarding from whom their equipment was rented
and from whom they received help with their boats. Therefore,
"we would like for the State of Alaska to make it perfectly
clear that this is in fact state domain; that their jurisdiction
is null and void," he requested.
MR. KUBLEY emphasized that there is an issue bigger than Yakutat
and that is:
If you go by the letter that was sent to the people of
Yakutat in December saying that because this road goes
through the Tongass National Forest we own it - even
though we didn't build it, even though we don't
maintain it, even though we don't have title to it -
then every road ... in the Tongass National Forest ...
[can fall under the whim of] some ranger ... [who] can
use that as a precedent and say there'll be no
commercial traffic on this road. ... I think it's a
real dangerous situation to allow them to think that
... that's an acceptable situation. I think this is a
way of showing them that it's not and it's a good
start in resolving the situation.
Number 0523
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA referred to page 2, line 8, and asked if
the state has absolute sole authority on public access. She
recalled that in some instances there are some shared rights.
MR. KUBLEY answered, "That would have to be a negotiated
situation. In this case, this is ... a state highway, it's
state access, it's a state river."
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA pointed out that the language refers to
"all state highways passing through Forest Service lands." She
reiterated her remembrance that it wasn't all of them.
MR. KUBLEY said that he wasn't aware of any such situation.
Number 0629
DICK BISHOP, Alaska Outdoor Council, testified in support of SJR
30. Mr. Bishop remarked that SJR 30 expresses a concern that
isn't unique. He supposed that "we" could sympathize with the
federal agencies trying to properly implement the terms of
federal rules, and in particular, ANILCA (Alaska Native Interest
Land Claim Act), which is so complex. Perhaps, this is an
honest mistake based on a lack of knowledge. However, it is an
unacceptable situation that should be addressed. He remarked
that such situations are epidemic with the difficulties of the
implementation of federal rules.
REPRESENTATIVE FATE inquired as to other examples in which Mr.
Bishop felt that the federal government overstepped its bounds.
MR. BISHOP recalled a situation from two years ago in which the
National Park Service declared that it was implementing
emergency regulations to prohibit the use of snow machines in
the old Denali National Park. Clearly, that was inconsistent
with the terms of ANILCA. Furthermore, it was inconsistent with
the authority they have to regulate; that is they didn't follow
the rules of their own laws. This resulted in a lawsuit brought
by the Alaska State Snowmobile Association and the [National
Park Service] lost. Therefore, [the National Park Service] had
to propose regulations in the proper manner and those
regulations were established. However, they are again in court
because it isn't clear that those regulations are consistent
with the intent of ANILCA.
REPRESENTATIVE FATE noted that there has been a recent incident
on the Yukon River that would seem to corroborate such
situations.
Number 0945
MR. KUBLEY reiterated that if the situation in Yakutat is
allowed, then [the federal government] could, by precedent, do
the same thing with every road in Southeast Alaska because those
are all in the Tongass National Forest. He concluded by saying,
"This is extremely serious."
CO-CHAIR SCALZI announced that public testimony was closed.
Number 1000
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to page 2, line 4, after "door"
and asked if there would be any merit to deleting "to" and
inserting "for it and". Representative Green offered that as an
amendment. There being no objection, the amendment was adopted.
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA noted for the record that there are some
cooperative agreements in place that the state has with the
Forest Service. She said, "They don't necessarily relinquish
the state's authorities."
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA then directed attention to the first
full paragraph on page 3 of the letter from the Senate President
and the Speaker of the House dated April 28, 2001. [This letter
is included in the committee packet.] She commented:
I think that ... when we're in these very complicated
issues, I think that it would be a good thing for all
us to remember that we have issues of sovereignty, of
tribal rights, and other issues that ... are truly
important to many of us, all Alaskans. When we're
dealing with these kinds of contentious issues, it's
best ... to try to think of us all when we're going
forward.
She also expressed some concern about the tone of the
resolution, although she said that she wouldn't object to it.
Number 1249
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE moved to report SJR 30 as amended out of
committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying
zero fiscal note. There being no objection, HCS SJR 30(RES) was
reported from the House Resources Standing Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 1:28 p.m.
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